Coach For Success with Selkirk’s Daniel J Howard

What happens when one of the most respected coaching minds in pickleball sits down for an honest conversation about coaching, competition, leadership, and the real impact this game has on people's lives?

In this episode, Mike welcomes Daniel J. Howard, Lead Coach Developer for Selkirk Academy, Senior Pro player, coach educator, and General Manager of the Detroit Disruptors. Daniel shares his journey from basketball and tennis to becoming one of the most influential coaching voices in pickleball today.

🏓 Inside this episode:

✅ Growing up in a family of teachers and coaches
✅ Why great players don't always make great coaches
✅ The coaching philosophy that shapes Daniel's approach
✅ Senior Pro pickleball and the MLP Champion Series
✅ Selkirk Academy's vision for coach development
✅ Pickleball Coaching International (PCI) and the future of coaching education
✅ How pickleball can literally change and save lives
✅ Why relationships matter more than ratings

This is a masterclass in coaching, leadership, and the human side of pickleball.

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https://www.instagram.com/danieljpickleball?igsh=M3hueWVjaDMxazNt

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And that wraps up this episode of Kitchen Conversations.

If you enjoyed the conversation, be sure to follow the show, leave a review, and share it with someone who loves the game as much as you do.

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That’s where these stories really come to life.

You’ll also find links and show notes in the episode description.

Until next time…

more than dinks, drops and drives…

these are stories from behind the paddle.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hi, welcome to the podcast and welcome to Kitchen Conversations. I'm glad you're here this morning. We had a chance to sit down with Selkirk's lead coach developer, a gentleman named Daniel J. Howard. Now, he's a great guest. He's a seasoned coach. He has a very solid philosophy behind his coaching, his thoughts, and how he implements all of that on the courts with his players and with his students. He has an in-depth knowledge of the game. He's a top-level player. We're going to talk about coaching. We're going to talk about playing. We're going to talk about a lot of things with Daniel today. I hope you enjoy this episode of Kitchen Conversations as much as I did. Well, Daniel, good morning, and welcome to my podcast. Welcome to Kitchen Conversations. And I have to tell you, the day we're recording, I'm a bit nervous. And not so much because you're here, although I am to some extent a bit nervous talking to you today, but we're actually launching the channel today, April 2nd, 2026. We're actually going live. So I'm putting this mug out there in public for the first time. And I am uh I'm a little bit nervous about that. So um, anyhow, I'm glad you're here this morning. I want to welcome you to the show. Thank you for doing this.

SPEAKER_01 1:07

Hey, well, thanks for having me. I'm I'm happy to be here.

SPEAKER_00 1:10

Yeah, well, we're gonna have a fun conversation. I'd like to start by kind of setting up the conversation into three separate rallies, Daniel, if we could. And in rally one, I'd like to invite you to tell us a bit about your background, your working background, your education background, certainly the sports that you've been involved in, the levels that you've played at. And I understand that your dad is a pretty high level or was a pretty high-level basketball coach, and your mom did some teaching. Uh, so we'd love to hear about how maybe they influence certain decisions that you've made in your life. And then we'll jump into rally two, and that'll be about this crazy wonderful game called pickleball and how you found it, or maybe it found you, and how does it fit into your day, your week, your month, and your year at this point in your life, and where do you see perhaps that heading? And then the third rally, we'll get into all the things that you do in coaching, the world of Selkirk sports. We'll talk a little bit about pickleball coaching international. And uh, so I'm just gonna invite you to run with all of that today. Uh, I'm on your clock, so I've got all day. So I'll just let you kind of ramble on as as you see fit. And uh, so if you don't mind, let's jump into rally one. Let's hear about Daniel J. Howard's background and education and sports and all of that.

SPEAKER_01 2:17

So yeah, well, I as you said, I grew up in a home where my dad was a basketball coach and my mom was a substitute school teacher uh for many years. And so I kind of feel like a lot of what I learned about being a coach slash teacher, I learned from them. I just was in that environment and it absorbed into me. My dad coached basketball for well over 40 years. He just retired a year ago, and partly because he could now come watch my sons play basketball. So that's kind of cool. But um, you know, I I feel like you know, when you grow up in a household like that, a lot of what you learn is caught more than taught. And you know, my parents didn't purposefully teach me about being a teacher or a coach, but you know, interestingly, my older brother became a school teacher, and both of my younger sisters became school teachers. So, you know, that was my path initially going into college is I'm gonna be a school teacher, I'm gonna coach physical education and then coach basketball. Um, when I got to college, I decided that once I got into the education program, well, lesson plans aren't for me. I don't like doing all these lesson plans. And ironically, once I graduated and started teaching and coaching tennis, I had to do a lot of lesson plans. So I couldn't escape it. But um, I instead went into just a physical education or exercise science program, and I got a degree there, which a lot of the classes and experience I gained there were and have been extremely helpful, helpful for me in my career today. Um, but I think just growing up in that household where you know I had that experience, and I I saw my dad go to conferences and seminars and associate with a lot of other really well-known coaches, that's one thing I picked up on that in my career, initially as a tennis instructor, I went to conferences and seminars and tried to rub shoulders with some of the best in the business and learn from them and get a lot of mentorship on what makes a good or great coach. And just trying to be very intent on learning more. I remember early on in my career, I I was probably 20 years old, and my college tennis coach said, You're like a sponge. And my first one of my very first applications to teach tennis, the director of tennis there said, you know, you yes, you you have this aptitude for learning and growing, and it ended up working out at that facility. I chose to work somewhere else, but I had an aptitude for improving. And so it it's turned out pr pretty well for me, and I guess we'll get into that a little bit later, you know, the coaching I'm doing now within pickleball, but I think that just really formed me and shaped me. And I couldn't have envisioned that I'd be doing pickleball in in uh you know when I was younger, but I'm happy how it's turned out to this point, and I'll never stop trying to become a better coach.

SPEAKER_00 5:47

Yeah, it's interesting, Daniel, and all those are great points, and thanks for putting that on the table today. It's I think you know, we look at our parents, and I know for me, my dad instilled in me, I think, three great gifts. And one was honesty, the other was integrity, and the third was a work ethic. And it wasn't so much a sit down at the kitchen table, kid, you've got to learn this. It was just watching my dad and some of the things that he did or didn't do, perhaps, Daniel, that really guided me, you know, as a young person. And in that moment, uh, I don't think I recognized the importance of that. And so for you to have that relationship with your dad and your mom and putting that all together and ultimately ending up where you are today, it's uh yeah, it's it's a guiding light. And I think um, on your point about coaching, you know, and mentoring and approaching some of these sort of legends or the greats in the game, if you will, I think sometimes we're reluctant to do that. We feel that maybe we're bothering them. But I think most great coaches and mentors love when someone like you or me, you know, wants to come up and say, Listen, I'm here to learn. And, you know, as you said, I was like a sponge. And and I've my life's been very similar in that regard, the path that I've taken. And I've never been afraid to go to someone I respected and who was respected to say, can you help me? And that word help, that that's boy, if I say to you, Daniel, can you help me? It's pretty hard for you to say no. You know, if I say, you know, would you do this for me? That's slightly different than saying, Can you help me? So yeah, great stuff. But your dad, obviously, a huge influence in the coaching side and and following those mentors, and uh, yeah, good for you. That's really good stuff. Yeah, appreciate you sharing that. Thank you. Sure thing.

SPEAKER_01 7:17

Yeah, I I found that as you said, the really great coaches, it's not about the wins and losses. Yeah, you're you're you're competing to win the game, but it's more about investing in their players, investing in their assistant coaches, and giving back to the game in that way. Where yes, I saw my dad how he cared for his players. You know, hey, you know, he he gets a phone call. Hey, my player has this need, I gotta go meet with this player. And he continued coaching for probably six years after he said he was going to retire, probably more, actually, because well, I just got this one player. I got these couple players, I really just don't want to quit yet. And so he continued coaching year after year after year because of his concern for the players. And I think that's what a what makes for a truly great coach is it doesn't matter if you're coaching junior high, high school, college, is that love of the game, love of the players, and that that desire to want to better them as people, not just as performers.

SPEAKER_00 8:31

Oh, 100%. I can tell you, I've got a 28-year-old and a 25-year-old, and Daniel, both of them are doing what they're doing today, in large part due to a coach or coaches that influenced their life. And these coaches were also in the classroom. So they all taught at high school. Obviously, they've they played, you know, dual roles, if not more. But, you know, I can specifically remember moments in both David and Adam's life where they came home inspired by a coach and saying, you know, and in David's case, it was to pursue uh a law career. Uh, and in Adam's case, it was to pursue, you know, human kinetics and kinesiology, which ultimately led to him going to teachers' college and now becoming a teacher. So, you know, without those coaches, and I think there's a point where the parents are doing nothing but putting food on the table and driving them to the game. And it's the coaches that are influencing them. I mean, mom and I are in the background going, we think you'd make a great teacher. And he's like, Yeah, I don't think so. As soon as the coach says, you know, you might be a good teacher, he's calm going, you know, I might go into teaching. Just as a parent, it just about kills you. But I don't know, honestly, Daniel, in that moment, if Fran and I understood the um, the impact that these coaches were having on our two boys. We we knew they admired them and respected them, but uh it was sort of a few years later when we saw their plans in life develop that we really got it. So yeah, good on you. Was there a particular coach or a couple of coaches that that you were either mentored by, working with, respected that that you know would be names perhaps that some of us might recognize?

SPEAKER_01 9:55

Um boy, I I doubt you'd recognize the names. Uh when I played uh, because I played basketball and tennis in high school, and uh one of my AAU basketball coaches actually had a pretty big impact on me. His name was Greg Williams, and just the guy was such a wealth of knowledge, he coached us hard. And I know AAU basketball is completely different today than it was decades ago, but he coached us really hard, and the assistant coaches under him coached us really hard, and it was not pleasant at the time, uh, it was very difficult, but I learned a lot, and not only did I learn a lot as a player, I got a lot of my coaching style from those AAU coaches, uh, in particular Greg Williams. I would say also my junior high basketball coach, his name was Matt Henningson, no one would ever know him. He coached junior high basketball, but man, I tell you, he was a very, very good junior high basketball coach. Uh he was also the shop teacher. And uh a lot of the athletes took shop class just because he was the basketball coach. But um he he pushed us hard. And one of the commonalities of my career growing up was that the coaches who instilled discipline in us and wouldn't and and they held us accountable, they wouldn't let us get away with slacking off. Those are the ones who made the impact. Uh because you knew at the end of the day they cared about you and your performance getting better. Uh and so no discipline seems pleasant in the moment, but uh for those who've been trained by it, man, what a what a reward uh on the other side. So that's one of the things I've taken with me in my coaching is to hold athletes accountable and you don't have to be mean about it. You know, I've uh you can speak gently, you don't have to scream at your players. You know, you watch some of these college basketball coaches just yelling in their players' faces, and I don't think that's necessary, especially when you're talking about working with younger athletes uh or adult athletes for that matter. If you're if I'm teaching pickleball, I'm not shouting in my players' faces. There's there's a different approach. But being held accountable was extremely important for me as a younger athlete, uh, even on in college. Uh you know, when I played, I did play a couple years of basketball in college. I also played tennis, eventually tennis won out. But my college tennis coach had a profound impact on me, and I still talk to him to this day. And so, you know, the coaches I've had and the coaches I've associated with over the years, it's uh it's really shaped me. And I owe them a debt of gratitude.

SPEAKER_00 13:03

Yeah, I love it. I love the passion. I can hear it in your voice, I can see it in your face, and I think it's great that you can carry those names forward. And yes, we may not recognize the names that you've mentioned, but you certainly will never forget them, you know. And I think to have that as part of your character, it's interesting as we meet people in our lives, Daniel. We take certain elements of them and they become us. And, you know, I often tell a story about how I answer the telephone. And to this day, if you were to phone me, I'd say, hi, it's Mike, not hello or hi. Or and I took that from someone that I worked with years ago. And uh, I just thought he was a cool guy and I liked him and I respected him. And he was good at what he did. And so, you know, without really intending to mimic him, I kind of started. And it was, you know, probably years later that I realized I'd done it. Um, I just started doing it and I really respected him. So interesting how some of that just kind of rubs off on us. And, you know, as we build our lives and our personalities and our character and our approach and our beliefs, we end up kind of absorbing some of these really great qualities from the people that we meet, and certainly, you know, coaching and the coaches that are out there uh are a big part of that. So yeah, I appreciate that. Thanks so much for sharing. That's great stuff. Let's jump into rally two. Let's talk about this ridiculous game, this silly game that started on Bainbridge Island in the summer of 1965. Boy, we're going back a bit now, although it's still a relatively young sport compared to, say, golf or curling. But uh, how did this become part of your life? Obviously, basketball, tennis, and uh can see a logical transition from tennis into pickleball. But walk me through the story of pickleball for Daniel Howard. And do you remember the first game? Who introduced you to it? And what was your immediate reaction to the game, Daniel? Were you one of those tennis guys that said, gee, gee, it's for old guys in Florida, it's not for a young guy like me. But how did that all come to be part of your life?

SPEAKER_01 14:44

Well, interestingly, you know, I grew up playing a lot of sports. My dad exposed us to soccer and golf and basketball. And pretty much you name it, I played it. Uh baseball. I played up through junior high until I got to high school and switched over to tennis. I ran track. So I played a variety of sports. And though I got into tennis, you know, a little later and played in college and I started teaching that for a career. I was not opposed to trying new sports. I played all the sports. And so when pickleball was introduced to me, I believe it was 2012, one of the gentlemen at our local club in Michigan suggested, hey, do you ever want to try pickleball? I remember my exact words, and I remember where I was standing, and I said, I'm sure I'll like it. I was not one of these tennis snobs who said, No, I'm not gonna try pickleball. That's beneath me. I embraced it right from the start. I said, I'm sure I'll like it. I went over, I played a game, and sure enough, yeah, I like it. And so uh Max Saney and Terry Dinning were two of the first guys I played with, and they were probably 3.0, 3.5 level players, but they were the best in our club. There was only about 12 players who played at our club, and I thought it was pretty cool. This sport is fun. Uh, I had tried other racket sports, I had played some squash, I had played some racquetball, and this was just one more cool sport that I could try. And I didn't play again for about six more months. You know, I was teaching tennis, and so it was hard for me to get off the tennis court and just go play pickleball. But I played again about six months later and enjoyed it even more. I it took me a while to figure out the scoring, like you know, wait a minute, am I am I the second server now or the first server? I don't know if there's a side out. Can you know you guys gotta help me through this because this is awkward? Uh the other very challenging thing early on playing pickleball was letting that return of serve bounce. I I kept wanting to serve and rush the net. And I did that a number of times before it really sank in that you you can't serve and volley. You have to wait for that ball to bounce. But I enjoyed every minute of it, and I I still enjoy it. I still have that love of the game, and I still have a desire to improve my skills as a player and as a coach. And so the passion hasn't waned yet. Uh, there may come a day when I've had my fill of pickleball, but I don't see it happening anytime soon.

SPEAKER_00 17:46

Yeah, that's not today, let's say, for sure. Yeah, it's interesting. I I was chatting with uh someone at the club a couple days ago, and we got talking about sort of the early days in pickleball in our region, which is Kingston, Ontario. So we're just on the shores of Lake Ontario. We're not far from Michigan. And um, you know, back in 2012, 2013, Daniel, it was almost like the secret club. Like people were almost embarrassed to admit they were playing pickleball. You know, you'd say, What are you doing for fun? You know, I'm playing pickleball. Why not? I am too. You know, it was kind of this little, and then it just exploded. And it's a point of pride now. I mean, if you're a pickleball player, you're loud and proud, and you're out there telling people about the game, you're advocating for it. We're all in some small way ambassadors for this great game that started all those years ago. And but yet I can tell you uh a somewhat similar story, uh, and had a chance to get involved in a game. I think I'm gonna say 2014, 2015, uh, at a sports and leisure show that the kids and I were attending with with uh Fran to try to figure out what they're gonna do for the summer, soccer, baseball, what have you. And there was a guy set up with an eight-foot table trying to commit people to pickleball, you know, and they were setting up outdoor courts and and I breezed by. I breezed by and he called me, hey, Shaddai. I said, not interested. You know, I I knew enough about the game that it was for old guys. And at that point, I wasn't an old guy, so I had no interest. And boy, do I kick my hiney on that one today? Because I struggle to be a three-five today. And I'm thinking if I'd have picked up a paddle then, I might, I might be a pretty decent three five today. So it's interesting if how that game shifted. I'm so happy to be able to say that that the game is something that people are very happy to talk about today. And yeah, very interesting. So tell me about you today on both a, you know, we'll get into the coaching in rally three, but more so as a player. And where do you plug into the pro level? What are you doing? What are the goals and ambitions for you at this point in your life? Uh, and where do you see that taking you?

SPEAKER_01 19:32

Yeah, um, well, I, you know, I'm 49 years old now, so I can actually play senior pro events this year. And I plan to do so because my birthday, when I turn 50 in December, it ages me up where I can play senior pro. So I've I got a bit of an advantage being the young guy out there. But uh the last several years, I've just been kind of a journeyman pro, you know, playing uh APP and PPA events uh a lot of times in the uh qualifier draw. You know, I've made it through to the main draw uh occasionally, but the game has gotten so young and so fast, and with the influx of all these other great athletes, it's pushed me down the ranks. You know, 10 years ago, I was I was doing all right. And I might have been a recognizable name, but they didn't have the pro tours like they do now. And so I'm looking forward to playing senior pro where I can be kind of relevant again as a player, but I do practice every day and I'm striving to become better. There's a lot of areas in my game I can improve and I'm intent on improving. Now that also requires some off-court training. You know, I got to get my body back into better shape, and there's a lot that goes into it. You know, it's you I really have to adjust my lifestyle to become a better player. I can't just go out there as a hobby anymore and and perform well, at least not well enough to be really competitive. So I am out there trying to practice every day at the Michigan Athletic Club. I have a good training partner, Matthew Haley, is in the same boat as me, and he's wanting to play senior pro and perform well. And so we get to practice together a lot, which is very helpful. And that's kind of where I'm at right now. I do plan on playing in the what's now called Major League Pickleball Champions Series, formerly called National Pickleball League, the NPL. Uh, they've rebranded and partnered up with Major League Pickleball, which I think is pretty cool because now we'll be playing at some of the same venues as Major League Pickleball. So you'll have Major League Pickball and then Major League Pickleball Champions playing alongside each other. You got the regular pro version, you got the senior pro version right there at the same venue. So I'm really looking forward to that. That's kind of the primary events I'll be playing in 2026. I still have to take a look at the calendar and see if I can. Squeeze in PPA tournaments as well. But that's great. I am also the general manager of a new expansion team within the MLP Champions Series, and that's in Detroit. So that puts a little bit more on my plate, uh, but it also means I have to perform as a player. If I'm gonna fill a roster spot on the Detroit Disruptors pickleball team, then I gotta perform. I have to be able to play well as a player. So that's part of the motivation for being out there, getting in better shape, and practicing a lot. I gotta hit a lot of pickleballs. And it's fun, I enjoy it, but it takes a lot of reps. So that's why I'm out.

SPEAKER_00 22:45

Can you expand more on that on the team, Daniel, and and sort of how many teams are going to be in that league and kind of how does that all unfold? How does that look?

SPEAKER_01 22:54

Yeah, so the the what was called NPL, National Pickleball League, now MLP Champions Series, has been around for four years, four seasons. This will be season five, and what started out as a four-team league last couple years has had 12 teams. Well, this year we've added four new teams Detroit, Las Vegas, and big news coming out on Las Vegas soon. Uh Los Angeles and Phoenix. And so now there's 16 teams in the league. The most competitive senior pro pickleball league out there. It's the strongest competition for senior pros, which is why the league was started. And a lot of fun. You know, some of these owners, managers of these teams really have good heads on their shoulders and want this league to be the most prominent senior league available for all the best players to be able to compete. And I think the partnership with MLP is a huge piece to pushing the league forward. The seniors now get a little bit of credibility as high-level players with that association. And it also attracts more sponsors and investors to the league. You know, you already have huge celebrity names within MLP. Well, in Detroit, we're working on some names of highly recognizable people, either within the sports world or just in the celebrity industry who want to make investments now into the senior pro league, uh, in Detroit in particular. So that's part of what I do too, is look for sponsors and network with people who might be interested in investing with the team or sponsoring the team. You know, with pickleball, there may not necessarily always be a high return on investment financially, but the return on energy, the return on experience is worthwhile for a lot of people. So that's kind of you know another thing that I'm doing is trying to find people who want to make that investment.

SPEAKER_00 25:05

That's awesome. Well, we'll make sure we cover all of that in detail in the show notes for sure. We'll put lots of contact info down for the team and the endeavors. So yeah, I'll chase you on that at the end of this for some of that contact info. It's good, you know, it's great to see. And I think it's got to be inspiring for the current sort of today's players that are looking down the road, recognizing that they're aging. They're gonna age out eventually, and but they're not gonna have to put the paddle away, you know, to have that next level. And however that ends up developing and whatever it ends up becoming, I think it's just gonna be great. And it's great for the sport. And and it's good for the fan base. You know, I still talk it in you know, in terms of golf, I still remember Nick Faldo. You know, I remember, you know, when Mickelson was a big deal and so on and so I think as we age, we just kind of move along with the players that we're watching today. And so just to know that that's going to be there for us as well as fans, I think is terrific. So yeah, good on you guys. I don't know how you do it all, but you know, maybe maybe you've learned how to function with no sleep. I'm I'm not sure, but somehow you're fitting it all in there. So yeah, that's really terrific. So well, good. Thanks for sharing all that. So good luck with all that this year, by the way. I mean, it's uh you're aging up and uh yeah, away you go. I think the passion is great, Daniel. I think the fact that you can find maybe a renewed passion, even is what it kind of sounds like to me for the game that uh that we all of us, you know, you, me, and and the guy listening here is uh, because there's probably just one, um, you know, really loves this game. So I think that's terrific. So well, great. Well, listen, let's jump into rally three. I want to spend some time, lots of time here if we can, or at least as much time as you can give me this morning. Uh, let's talk about Selkirk coaching. Where do you fit into Selkirk's world? I mean, if you're a pickleball player and don't know the name Selkirk, you're probably not much of a player. So I mean, this is a family business. It started as a family-owned business years and years ago, and certainly has grown to become a market leader and uh very prominent. Uh, you'll see uh Catherine Peranto behind me here on the poster board. So, you know, as a Canadian, we're quite proud of her and her accomplishments. But uh yeah, so we we certainly know Selkirk. And then of course, uh you're also involved with PCI, uh Pickleball Coaching International. So I'd like you to run with both of that. Tell me kind of where that fits into things for you today and uh, you know, the role that you fill in in both of those organizations.

SPEAKER_01 27:08

Yeah, well, uh, first of all, I would say, you know, shout out to Mark Renneson, who had this vision for running Selkirk Academy pickleball camps. And he's the one who brought me on board to help develop coaches to teach Selkirk Academy pickleball camps. And so we'll be starting the academy in Mesa, Arizona at Dinkendine, which is a phenomenal facility. If you've not seen it, you really need to check it out. It's cutting edge, it's at the forefront of what a pickleball facility ought to look like. And so I will be out there in Mesa, Arizona with Mark Renneson and training up some coaches to lead Selkirk Academy pickleball camps. Now they're themed camps. You've got competition pickleball, precision pickleball, power pickleball, and fundamental pickleball. So, whatever your desire is, if you want to learn one of these segments of pickleball, if you're a newer player, try the fundamental pickleball camp. And so there's a spot for everybody at one of these camps. And part of my role is to help train these coaches to become even better coaches. In May, we're starting in Fort Lauderdale, Florida, heading up these Selkirk Academy picketball camps, and we'll be training up additional coaches in that area, and then we'll expand to other venues across the country. So that's my main role with the Selkirk uh within Selkirk is to train these coaches to become better coaches. There'll be follow-up, of course, you know, once I leave an area. Uh, if these coaches have questions, certainly we'll have continuing dialogue. I'll go back out and revisit again, see how these coaches are doing, and give continuing education. Uh now where PCI fits in is I believe that's just the best certification program out there. Typically, PCI has done online certifications. For anyone who's seeking to become a better pickleball coach, they can get certified with PCI. And there's multiple levels to it. There's kind of an intro course, there's there's level one, there's level two for more advanced learning and more advanced coaching. Well, I will be doing now live certifications with PCI. So while I'm at a Selkirk Academy venue, we'll also be hosting in-person certification clinics. And that'll be part of my role as well, is to you know get these coaches certified, take them through the program. And of course, there's continuing education along with that. So I've been working through a lot of the PCI curriculum. Uh, it's done a complete refresh for 2026. Uh all updated videos, updated content, keeping up with the latest trends of the game and the latest teachings and methodologies. So you'll see a refresh coming very, very soon. Uh just launching very near future here. So that's my role with PCI. Uh, I do a lot of, I'm gonna be putting out a lot more content, videos and articles and information for coaches as well as for players. So be looking for that because that content is is coming soon and designed to get people to think a little bit and to engage a little bit. So some of the topics that get put forth might be a little edgy, uh, might have opportunity for people to argue back and forth, or I maybe not argue, but have a good have a discussion. And um that that's coming. So that's that's a lot of what I do when I'm home is working on that content, and then that'll be released you know throughout the rest of the year.

SPEAKER_00 31:15

Sure. Well, I love a good debate. I mean, I think I think we learn through debate. I I I love we you know, we had a small family business, Daniel, for quite a few years that uh we owned and operated. And we we had an open door policy and we we built that culture intentionally. We wanted our staff, our team, the people that we worked with for all those years to challenge our decision making. And they loved it because they were comfortable and they felt safe and they could come in and say, you know, this new idea you've got about that, it stinks. It absolutely stinks. And here's why because you're not understanding, Mike, that when this happens, that happens. And I, okay, fair play. But I always said to them, come in, you know, we're gonna be ready to have a debate. We're gonna, you know, we don't make decisions lightly as an organization. And certainly you as a coach do not make decisions lightly. When you put pen to paper and you're putting out a video or you're, you know, creating some kind of a coaching uh seminar. I'm sure you've put tons and tons of time into it. So for someone to come and challenge something within that curriculum, that's fine, but they better have a good reason for it. And I think that's terrific. I think sometimes we're afraid to debate, you know, we're just we sort of, okay, that's what he said, so that's what we'll do. And it's not always, it doesn't always deliver the best outcome. So I'm I'm I'm happy to hear that. I think that's a great, great approach. So good on you guys. You mentioned Mark's name, and I think some of us listening would recognize the name, but could you give us a little bit of background on Mark himself and kind of his role within the broader pickleball community?

SPEAKER_01 32:33

Yeah, well, I've known Mark for years and years now, initially just online. He's one of the most respected voices in pickleball as a coach. Now he was a high, high-level player. I mean, you're talking back like 2010. I think he won nationals as a player, uh, doubles championship. Uh, might have been 2009, 2010, but he was a very prominent player back in the day. Now, he doesn't play as much pickleball anymore because he spends all his time coaching and creating content. But he was one of the original thought leaders within pickleball. You know, you saw him on Facebook, very, very prominent as a thought leader within the industry. And I always had a lot of respect for him. I think that was mutual uh back and forth where you know we would put out thoughtful content where the game is going and seeing the trends of how sports work, and just always had a lot of respect for him and what he was doing with within the sport. Um, now since COVID, a lot has changed and influx of a lot of new players. And you know, I know he took a little time away, got back into some tennis stuff for a while, but you know, creating the whole PCI program took a lot of work, but it it was born out of his philosophies and a you know pedagogy uh that developed over decades of learning. And understand that Mark is a Canadian, but being heavily involved with like Tennis Canada, you know, he's been rubbing shoulders with some of the best in the industry for many, many years. And so he has a great breadth and depth of knowledge about sport in general, but uh in pickleball in particular. And as I said, he's just been one of the most respected voices within the sport as a coach for many, many years now. So maybe his name is not out there on the forefront anymore, but he also runs third shot sports. So if you're familiar with that, uh the PCI, that's a recognizable name and certification program. Uh obviously has done a lot of good work with Selkirk over the years, and so his name is kind of synonymous with the Selkirk brand. And, you know, he's he still has visions and dreams and plans to do more and to continue to push the sport forward. And I'm happy to be working alongside him on a lot of this stuff, and we're collaborating on information and putting stuff out there, and it's it's an exciting time for me because we talked for years about hey, maybe we can work together on something at some point. It's taken us like over 10 years to make that happen, but here we are now, and good things are really happening.

SPEAKER_00 35:29

Well, I love that. And listen, I and I'm so glad I remembered to go back and ask you that question, uh, Daniel, and thanks for explaining all that. Because he um, I'm only talking to you because of Mark. And I'm I mean, I when I came into this podcast, it started in January. It was a crazy idea. On the way to play one day, thought maybe I should do a podcast. Why not? I have no background in podcasting, have no idea what I'm doing, but I thought it could be fun. And so I just started creeping people literally on Facebook, Googling pickleball gurus, pickleball legends, and and I'm sending messages to people who about a podcast that doesn't exist with a guy that's never done a podcast. And I'm saying, would you guess on my show? And Mark was like, No, but I know a guy that will, and that's how I connected with you. And so he literally said, You should be talking to Daniel J. Howard. So I'm like, okay, got to look this guy up now and learn a bit about you. And so here we are today. So I owe a debt of gratitude to Mark. He, you know, he's helped me in a big way, and in a way that he had no business helping me. I mean, it's been quite a journey, Daniel. It really has. You know, the whole concept of reaching out to total strangers with messages and directing and asking him to guest on a podcast, it isn't, you know, as I mentioned earlier, it's going live today, in, you know, basically in April. So yeah, uh, he's a good guy. He's a good guy. And but you know, the more I think about it and talk to guys like you who are generous to give me some of your time this morning as well, Daniel, it's it's really part of what I love about this game. I mean, pickleball people at the heart of it are good people. It's just that simple. And we don't mind giving and sharing and promoting the game. So yeah, well, good. Well, thanks for expanding on that. Let me jump into the question I was going to ask you. And that is let's talk about your coaching philosophy when you're dealing with someone who is trying to get better. Uh, and I'll share a quick story because the question I have for you, the direct question is this Does a good player necessarily mean they'll be a good coach? And does a not so good player mean they can't be a great coach? Um, and the reason I asked that is I took a lesson a few years ago when I first started uh with one of the top players here in my region, and he spent 45 minutes hitting me in the head, hitting me in the chest and the shoulder, telling me everything I was doing. I literally came home and I said to my wife, and at this point, I mean, I was just falling in love with the game, and I said, you know what, honey, I I don't know if I'm cut out for this because that was a pretty rough session. And I was giving serious consideration to moving on to something else at that point. Um, now he's a great player, and I think he is a great coach for the right person, but I love your insight on on that direct question. Does a great player necessarily make a great coach?

SPEAKER_01 37:56

Uh, the short answer is no. No. Um, obviously, having some level of proficiency as a player is helpful. You know, you can demonstrate strokes and you have some competency there. And that that is helpful for a student to be able to see a stroke performed in a particular way because demonstrations are part of good coaching. But it doesn't mean they have the skills to communicate and build rapport with people and understand where someone is at and how to get them to where they want to go. Uh, so is it a helpful skill? Yes. Does it necessarily translate into being a good coach? No, not necessarily. Uh now you also asked the question about if someone is a less skilled player, does that necessarily make them a better coach? Not necessarily. You know, do they they they they're already starting a little bit behind if they don't have the proficiency as a player to be able to demonstrate things well. Now, they might be more relatable right off the bat uh to someone who's a similar level or or slightly below, and they understand maybe what it takes, how much effort it takes to get to a higher level, uh maybe they're they're more similar. But that does not necessarily equate to being a great communicator and and building rapport and being able to teach more advanced level concepts or to get that player from where they are to where they want to go. So really, if you want to be a good teacherslash coach, it takes time and it takes a lot of learning. You know, I learned a lot when I was in college, and that was very helpful. But the classroom knowledge, I would say is was not as important and relevant as the experience I gained working with mentors and other teachers, and I gleaned so much from them on the court with experience. And obviously, it's it's a combination of all of that learning together, but I've also read extensively, read a lot of books about basketball, about coaching, about golf, about uh sport psychology and and tennis. And I I I used to get tennis magazine and just read that front to back as soon as I got it. And yeah, uh, it's interesting now because when I was younger, I a little side note here tennis magazine, I learned so much. There came a point where I'm like, yeah, you know what, I think I could write this article a little better. Wow, yeah, yeah. But it it just it just takes time and experience, and like anything else, if you want to become a computer programmer, yeah, taking two years of college courses may or may not mean that you become a great computer programmer. Uh it's a launch pad, but a lot of experience, there is no substitute for that. And so to answer your question, uh, you know, kind of summarize this, you know, it's a lot more than just playing proficiency. That is one component of good coaching. And if you want to be a great coach, that takes a lot of time.

SPEAKER_00 41:36

Yeah, for sure. So you would subscribe then to the fact that the relationship between the student, the player, and the coach is critical. It's gotta be. Because if you're not, and clearly this person and I did not connect to the point where I thought about giving up the game. So, you know, how much of that is important? When you meet someone new, if I was to approach you and say I need some help and you agree to generously take me on as a player, what what uh what are the first steps that you need to take to make sure that there's a good fit there, Daniel?

SPEAKER_01 42:02

Yeah, well, first of all, I'm sorry that happened to you. That is not a pleasant experience, and I wouldn't wish that on anyone. Uh I'm glad you stayed with the game. I mean, it would be a shame if you walked away because of one experience with a coach who didn't connect with you properly. Uh, so to answer that question, you you greet the person and you ask them their name, you call them by their name, and you don't change their name. That happens to me a lot. You know, I'll introduce myself as Daniel, and people will just automatically shorten my name to Dan. And, you know, I didn't tell them that was my name, and I get it, you know, it doesn't offend me, but as a coach, I have to be very careful about that. I call the person by their name, the name that they told me to call them. I I I'm not gonna switch William to Bill on my own volition. Uh, he didn't give me permission to do that, and so that's that's first and foremost is is a warm greeting. I like to smile and call them by their name. Now, then what I like to do, I think is very important, I ask the player their goal. Now, often a player will say, Well, I don't know, you're the coach, you tell me what I need to work on. So it depends on if it's a first-time student or if we've known each other for a while. If we've known each other for a while, then yes, I kind of already know the information on how we can structure this lesson because they've told me where they are and where they want to get to. But one of the very first questions a coach needs to ask is what are your goals? What do you want to achieve? You know, if you're here for social socialization, then that's a different, a whole different lesson plan than if you want strict competition and you want a really extreme intention. Work out. As a coach, I need to know this information. And can can we modify as we go? Of course we can. But that's where we start. I start with the players idea and where where they think they are and where they want to go. What is their goal? I want to help my students achieve their goal. I don't have an agenda for them that I'm just going to force them into this mold. And so I think to start off, to answer your question, that's what a good coach does is a warm greeting, use their name and ask them what their goal is and what they're hoping to accomplish with this lesson.

SPEAKER_00 44:44

Yeah, I love that. I can't tell you how much I love that. And I'll tell you why, because I think if there's something about the game that intrigues me and inspires me, it's the fact that you can come into pickleball, Daniel, and plug in at whatever level, and I'll reach as high as my arm will go, and be quite happy with it. And my goals and objectives are uniquely different than yours. And I just want to be a competitive social player. If I can get to a 4-0 level one day, I'm thrilled. But I'm happy to hover, hang out, be a 3-5 the rest of my life because the people that I meet at that level in that bandwidth of the game, I really like. I really like those people. And I find as we level up, the competitiveness of the game, the egos, the attitudes start to shift a little bit. And so I bumped up against some of those people personally. And I just find for me, and this is just me, it's a personal opinion. I'm not suggesting this is the game in the general sense, but for me, that group of three fives, they're just really great people. We're out there to be quote unquote competitive, but we're still having fun. And if we were to measure it, it's probably 60% social, 40% competitive, you know, in that respect. So I'm so glad you said that because coaches that don't ask, in my opinion, and that was not a question I was asked, by the way, by this particular person. It was just get on the court, let's start hitting the ball. Um, it's critical, absolutely critical that we understand that. Because you're giving me directions to a town I'm not trying to get to. It's not, I'm not going there. I'm going to mess. I want to go see that facility you were talking about. You're sending me to Las Vegas. I don't want to go there. So yeah, good on you. That's really awesome stuff. Perfect. Well, listen, I'm looking at the clock. I want to be super careful here because I respect your time a great deal. Um was there anything else about coaching? Uh, and here's maybe one final question. I personally think that everybody who comes into this wonderful game, and I hope that whoever's listening today is somewhat inspired to become uh a pickleball player. And that, you know, is part of the goal of the podcast. If we can inspire just one person, Daniel, that's never played, to pick up a paddle and try it, then I think, you know, I've done my part to help the game move along. But to that person and to those of us who have been playing for a while that maybe haven't tried, you know, a coaching session, even a 45-minute coaching session, I think it's important. I think just go into that and say, listen, I've been playing for X, and I just wouldn't mind you having a look at my game and giving me some suggestions to maybe work out some of the things. I would you subscribe to that, that there isn't a player today that wouldn't benefit from at least a coaching session with the right coach uh for the game.

SPEAKER_01 47:07

Oh, 100%. Everybody can benefit from having some good feedback. And that's what a good coach does is gives you some feedback that's going to enhance your not just your aptitude on the court, but your desire of the game or your enjoyment performing. At the end of the day, like I say I'm a pickleball coach, I I coach people and I just happen to teach them the game of pickleball. And I believe everybody, if they get on the court with a coach who has that mindset that they're there to enhance that person's life, then yes, of course, I would recommend that. Yeah, you're hitting pickleballs, but I can give you one anecdotal story here of a gentleman named Don who passed away not that long ago. He was 89 years old. Wow. And his skills were declining. You know, from the time he he turned 80, and he had uh Don had died twice. You know, he had died on the pickleball court, he came came off the court after a game, slumped over, no heartbeat, no, and so was not breathing, was revived. Fortunately, there was a doctor present, was able to revive Don, came back to the game a year later, and then started playing again. Well, his skills were declining, you know, month by month, year by year. Well, Don made it to age 89, far surpassing anyone's expectations. And I gave him a lesson shortly before he passed. And Don never came to improve his skills. He he kept saying, Oh, I gotta work on this backhand. You know, I got I want to improve this backhand thing. His backhand wasn't bad, but Don didn't move very well anymore. He he certainly couldn't run, you know, he kind of just shuffled around. And so I hit the ball to him. But he would tell me stories. Don would tell me about his travels of when he had gone to Rio de Janeiro and he had been to Asia, and he he'd been all over the world. And I could tell that this was a bright spot for Don in his week. Yeah, just coming in for a pickleball lesson. And so you have if you're a good coach, you have to see beyond just the immediate. You know, this coach who just fired balls at you and wanted you to become better at blocking, and he he tried to get you to do something that was not enjoyable for you, was really not that helpful for you. And if he had seen beyond that, that you're a newer player wanting a good, valuable experience that's gonna help you enjoy this game more and stay in it for the long haul, that's what is valuable for any student, I believe, is they spend some time with a coach where they have they can enjoy this game for an hour, and now maybe they have a little bit more passion to go keep doing this thing. It's a healthy, healthy thing to do. It gets people active and moving and socializing with others. Uh, I've got all kinds of other anecdotal stories I could throw in here as well of people who you know pickleball is almost their lifeline. I I um I I'm trying to think of maybe one other one I could tell you real quick, but I'll tell you about my friend Jim, who he uh he was in a bad way in his life, and he was on a really bad trend downward and probably wouldn't be here today if it weren't for pickleball. He discovered pickleball, we started doing lessons, we did weekly lessons for a long time. He's a good friend of mine now. We we no longer get on the court that much, but we still see each other often. And essentially, pickleball saved his life. And so I really believe that at the end of the day, this is far more about people than it is about just the silly game of pickleball. Pickleball is an avenue to enhance people's lives, and so I get to do that consistently. I get to travel the country and do that, I get to do it here when I'm at home. Uh and so hopefully I I like to think I've had a positive impact on people through the sport, and I'm gonna continue to do that. I I understand why my dad continued to coach basketball because I just want to invest in these kids, and I just want to keep pouring into other people's lives, and basketball is a way I can do that, and so I'm coaching basketball too, by the way. You know, my sons uh just finished up their seasons and and I love it. Um very rewarding. I just had one of the students, I ran into him Sunday, and he said, Hey coach, you know, I gotta tell you, I really didn't like you at the beginning of the season. I didn't like you. Oh, okay, appreciate that. He said, You you you were I thought you were mean. You were too hard on us, but I see it now that you're hard on us because you wanted us to get better. And that makes you feel really good as a coach. Now, I wasn't trying to be mean, and certainly again, with adult pickleball students, you're you're not gonna treat them the same way you would junior high kids who are getting out of line and goofing around. Yeah. Of course, he's gonna see me as being a little mean because I'm holding him accountable when he's goofing around. Um, you don't really get that with adult pickleball players. But the the fun fundamentals are still the same. You want to pour into these people's lives, and when they know that you have a desire to help them and make them better, it it's very rewarding. That that's why you do what you do as a coach.

SPEAKER_00 53:02

Yeah, well, I love all of that, and and I congratulate you on all of that, Daniel. And um, you know, as we wrap up here this morning, uh just on a couple of quick closing notes, but uh good on you for all of that. The story of Dawn and Jim. And I mean, that is the essence of the game for me. It's getting people off the couch, it's solving loneliness, it's giving people a purpose. And, you know, we got lucky, my wife and I to retire a bit earlier than planned, and we got probably some of the best advice in that moment. And that was it's really, really important to have something to do every day. And we've lived to that promise. And I think for many, many people that are listening to this and will listen to this and will run into you and and others down the road uh getting introduced to the game, they'll recognize the importance of that. It's two hours usually. You know, you wander into the club, you meet some people, you shoot the poop, you know, you play some pickleball, you know, you talk at the end of the game and you say, hey, I'll see you tomorrow. And they head home with a smile on their face, a couple steps on their Fitbit. Life is good. Life is good. So I congratulate you on everything. I wish you the best of luck going forward with, you know, the pro team, with the leagues, with the coaching, with Selkirk, with Mark, with uh PCI, with all of it. You've got such a full agenda and and a really genuine and sincere thank you for being here and supporting the podcast today. It's uh I really appreciate all of this. I've got uh two closing things. I want to uh personally congratulate you on a personal note. I follow you on social and uh your son was recently engaged. And so congratulations. This is a milestone moment for you. Yeah, good for him. Yeah. I remember asking my wife to marry me and still surprised she said yes. So when I hear of an engagement, I go, gee, I got lucky, I got super lucky. And the other thing is, if you and I ever happen to find ourselves on a pickleball court, I would love to play with you. I'd love to be beside you and watch you move and your court management, but I'd also like to play against you. And the only condition I have is this is your paddle, okay? And I get a four-point lead. So I you know, I'm just saying, you got to give it some consideration. It's not a very good offer. You may not want to take it, but uh yeah, listen, all joking aside, I'd love nothing more than to be part of one of your coaching sessions one day, and maybe I'll find a way to make that happen. And uh I'm inspired by your story. And uh yeah, this has been just a great conversation this morning. So thank you again for being on the podcast.

SPEAKER_01 55:13

Well, you're very welcome. Thank you. I've really enjoyed it. I appreciate the opportunity to share a little bit about my story. And uh, I'd love to get on the court with you. I'll take you up on playing with you, okay, not against you if I have to use that now.

SPEAKER_00 55:27

Fair play. Fair play. And maybe we just, you know what, we say these things, and maybe we should just make it happen. I need to come to you. I need to come down. I should come down to Mesa one day because boy, that sounds like quite a facility. So maybe that'll be part of the plan. And uh, you know, just a final uh request, and maybe that is I'll stay in touch. Uh, you know, I won't bug you, but I'll stay in touch. And maybe we can get you back on the podcast down the road when some of these things develop through the Pro League and the Champions League. And let's get let's catch up maybe in in you know several months down the road and kind of get an update on where Daniel J. Howard happens to be at that moment. So sounds great. All right, enjoy the rest of your day and thanks for being on the podcast. All right, thank you so much, Mike.