He Terrified Me!

He Terrified Me… Then Changed My Game Forever | Kitchen Conversations with Brian Cann

What happens when the player who intimidates you the most… becomes the one who helps you the most?

In this episode of Kitchen Conversations, I sit down with Brian Cann—a player, coach, mentor, and one of the most influential people in my own pickleball journey.

From our very first match on court #2, I knew Brian was different. His game was on another level. But what stood out even more? He was the first person to step in and help me understand the game.

And that’s where this story really begins.

We go deep into Brian’s journey—from early coaching roots and martial arts discipline, to a successful career in finance, and ultimately to pickleball… a game that entered his life at exactly the moment he needed it most.

This is not just a conversation about technique.
This is about confidence, resilience, community, and the power of sport to change lives.

👉 Whether you’re new to pickleball or fully addicted, this episode will hit home.

🔥 In this episode, we explore:

• The moment pickleball becomes an addiction (and why it happens so fast)
• Coaching vs confidence—what players really need
• Why connection between coach and player matters more than technique
• The hidden mental game behind improvement
• How pickleball helps people through loss, isolation, and major life transitions
• Why social sport might actually help you live longer
• The real difference between players who plateau… and those who level up

🎯 Connect with Brian Cann:

Phone: 613.449.3540

Email: thevortex@cogeco.ca

👉 Local coaching inquiries: 

https://teachme.to/listings/pick...

https://www.bounce.game/coach/33...

https://www.pickleheads.com/less...

🏓 About Kitchen Conversations:

This isn’t a highlight reel.
This is Stories from Behind the Paddle.

Real people. Real journeys. Real conversations about the game that’s quietly changing lives everywhere.

If this episode inspires even one person to pick up a paddle… we’ve done our job.

📌 Subscribe for weekly episodes:

👉    / @kitchenconversationspickleball  

🔖 Hashtags:

#KitchenConversations #BrianCann #PickleballStories #BehindThePaddle #PickleballLife #PickleballCommunity #PickleballCoach #PickleballJourney #PickleballAddiction #DinkAndDrive #PickleballPodcast #GrowthThroughSport 

And that wraps up this episode of Kitchen Conversations.

If you enjoyed the conversation, be sure to follow the show, leave a review, and share it with someone who loves the game as much as you do.

And if you want the full experience, including the visuals, head over to YouTube and watch the episode at

https://www.youtube.com/@KitchenConversationspodcast

Or search Kitchen Conversations Pickleball Podcast

That’s where these stories really come to life.

You’ll also find links and show notes in the episode description.

Until next time…

more than dinks, drops and drives…

these are stories from behind the paddle.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Hi, and welcome to the podcast. Welcome to Kitchen Conversations. We've got a pretty simple goal here. We hope the podcast in some way inspires just one person to pick up a paddle and try pickleball for the very first time. I think we all remember our first games. We certainly likely remember the people that helped us learn the game, learned how to score, learned how to hit a dink shot. Well, for me, that was a gentleman named Brian Cann. Brian was super helpful when I first started playing the game, and we become friends. And I had a chance to get Brian into the studio recently to chat about his background in martial arts and finance and in coaching and the important role that pickleball played at a point in Brian's life when he really needed the game. We're going to talk about all of that, what he's currently doing in coaching and his thoughts on the game in the broader sense on today's episode of Kitchen Conversations. I'm glad you're sitting across from me. I want to start by delving into your background. I want to talk about pickleball. I want to talk about coaching. But before we do that, I want to share a personal story. I want to share a story about the first time you and I met. I remember getting on a court with you. It was court number two. I'll never forget it. And I was facing off against you in one of the first games I ever played. And you terrified me. I mean, you absolutely terrified me. I remember coming home to my wife and saying, I met this guy tonight that has this amazing game. Like I will never, ever play like this guy. It was, it was mind-blowing. So when I think of Brian Kahn, I think of Brian Kahn, the coach and the player and the mentor and the community leader and all the things. Apparently the terrifier. And the terrifier. He's going to say, I'm going to add the word terrifier in there. But Brian, honestly, it's my most vivid memory of you is being across the net from you.

SPEAKER_00 1:34

And you were just getting swept up in the vortex, Mike. That's all.

SPEAKER_02 1:38

I was. And I was getting addicted to the game in that moment, Brian, and probably didn't realize it. But you know, in combination with that comment, I'd also offer that you were also the first person to come up to me and offer me some help. You really were. You're the first person within the club that ever approached me and was willing to help me uh try to figure out this crazy game that you and I both come to love and are fully addicted to. So I just want to start with that because I think it's a favorite story of mine. And I've always known that. Yeah, it's a great story.

SPEAKER_00 2:02

I didn't know I terrified you. Yeah. Do I still terrify you or are you good now?

SPEAKER_02 2:05

We'll see how the day goes. There's some, there's a moment for, you know, there's moments for everything today. But yeah, that that was a, you know, I think really speaks uh not only to the friendship that you and I have had for a while now, but also the concept of the game and what I love about it. And it really boils down, Brian, to the people. And you know, you mentioned a moment ago before we started recording that uh, you know, the tagline for the podcast is stories behind the paddle. And that's really what's inspired this today is to have you here and to hear some of your stories. So just want to thank you for being here.

SPEAKER_00 2:30

Thanks. Well, I'm uh I'm flattered and honored that uh I think I've I've got something valuable to uh contribute.

SPEAKER_02 2:38

Yeah, for sure. Well, listen, let's start with your background because it's a pretty complex story you have. You've been in martial arts, you've been in finance, you've been a coach. Uh you just you fill a lot of roles, Brian. So just just run with that for me. Just tell me a bit about your background and then we'll dive into pickleball specifically in a couple of minutes.

SPEAKER_00 2:53

Uh well, we to let's use the teaching as the anchor there. Um my parents insisted all our kids could learn to swim. We lived close to some water, yeah. So they didn't want to have to supervise our every moment there. So all my brothers and sisters, we all had to take swimming lessons. Right. And so then when I get into your teen years, you do all this the standard swimming, and you're thinking, okay, now what can I do? Because you're getting to the point where you want to get a job and that sort of thing. And there were a couple of paths you could become a lifeguard, you could become a swim instructor, which meant you had to take some courses. So I did both. I didn't like lifeguarding. Uh, the monotony of sitting on a beach staring at hundreds of people, jumping up and down the water, acting like or looking like they're gonna drown, but not drowning and not reacting like a madman at you know, 15, 16 months old. So I did that for a little bit, and it was like, ah, plus it's I would never make, you know, if we were in the military, I would never make, you know, one of those guard guys in there at three o'clock in the morning. No, yeah, just couldn't do it. I'd just be I would just go crazy, right? I'd I'd have to be doing dancing or something. So lifeguarding was out. Swimming instructing, sure. That's you know, I took courses and went and went to that. And uh, you know, you taught basically kids from I don't know, six or something. That's a long time ago. Yeah, six until uh 16 or whatever, until they would would get to the level of being a lifeguard. Uh did they really teach you how to teach? No, you just kind of f flew by the C to your pants and figured things out, right? You know, I was saying to you before, before we started recording it. You know, you get a five-year-old kid who doesn't is as scared of the water, doesn't want to get in the water. How do you figure out how to teach them how to swim? The parents have paid, they expect their kid to learn learn something, right? Yeah, I I turned out I actually had a bit of a knack for that. I could coax kids to jump in the water. You sit in the water and say, Come on, jump in, I'll catch you. Come on, jump in, I'll catch you. Jeez, I don't even know if you could do that nowadays. It's like probably not come on and I'll catch you. And then what you do is you'd have them jump and you'd sort of, you know, you kept getting a little further away from the edge, so they had to reach out, you know. And before you'd catch them, then you'd get them by the arms, and then eventually you just wouldn't catch them.

SPEAKER_02 5:08

And that'd be it. They'd be in the water.

SPEAKER_00 5:14

Right. And then you'd do it a couple more times, and all of a sudden they go, Okay, look, I overcame my fear. I didn't think about it at the time, but when I think about it as a coach now or whatever, or when I think back, yeah, over time you think back, you realize, you know, how fear, confidence is a big factor that can inhibit someone. It's inhibited my pickleball game. And I so I think about it a lot um when I coach. Uh that's crazy. I think about that. I think about that. Always thinking about is this person are they really not playing well? Do they need help with the with their shot? Or do they need a shot of confidence? Yeah. I just made that up. That sounded pretty good. Do they help with a shot or do they need a shot of confidence? Maybe right. Or do they just need a shot of something else? I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 6:00

Or or all three. Or all three. Yeah. Great point. It's an interesting point you make because you know, when you think about uh what holds people back from getting better at whatever it is they're trying to achieve in life, and you can that's a broad brush. I mean, you can you can apply that to a lot of things in life, Brian. It's a great point. Um, so obviously early in life, coaching was something that you felt a natural sort of tendency to lean into. You weren't afraid of it, you f you felt you had something natural there, which is great.

SPEAKER_00 6:22

Well, it was easy when you're teaching kids because you're older. So it's always easier, right? It got harder when I got once I got working in that and you became a financial guy.

SPEAKER_01 6:31

Right.

SPEAKER_00 6:32

Because ultimately almost all your clients are older than you, right? And uh, you know, I remember the beginning of my financial career before I became a professional money manager, you know, working in a bank and then you know, working up your going up the levels, climbing the ladder, I call it. Uh you know, it's like, well, you don't have any gray hair, so what do you know? Right, right.

SPEAKER_02 6:51

So credibility and age sometimes get confused, right? It's not always the case. Sometimes yeah, you can go through a lot. You learn a lot. I mean, we can't not learn as we go through life, Brian, but the reality is, do we are we learning the right things and are we retaining, you know, retaining the right things? So it's a great question. So that's that's sort of in the teen years. You know, how does that transition into a career in finance? And ultimately, uh, you know, martial arts became an important part of your life, you know, for discipline and physical fitness. And, you know, I love your warm-up routine because you again I got so many great Brian Cannes stories, so I don't know where to start, but the handstand just killed me. I mean, the first time I see you warming up and you're upside down, I'm like, what is he doing? You know, I mean it was yeah, I loved it. So so take me from those early days of coaching and swimming and the kids, take me into the next phase. What's what comes after that?

SPEAKER_00 7:37

Well, I started karate when I was what's the drinking age? When were we legal to drink? 18, 19?

SPEAKER_02 7:44

It flipped, yeah. It was 21, 19, depending on the on the age of the stuff.

SPEAKER_00 7:46

Yeah, so I started karate because I remember uh everybody on Thursday nights or karate club, all the guys would go down to this pub. I was in St. John, New Brunswick, they'd go down to the pub and I couldn't go because I wasn't of age, so I would have been 18. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 8:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:00

I had karate because I was I basically I was bullied when I was in high school and junior high and stuff. I was a bit I'm a nerd nerd. I probably still am a nerd uh in some ways. Um it has its bonuses and it has its drawbacks, but sure I was bullied. So I basically uh basically started taking martial arts basically to beat the crap out of people that bullied you. That bullied me. Yeah, I've been there. I've been there. That's what it that's what it boiled down to. And most of the other guys I know that stuck with karate for long, long periods of time. If you talk to them, a lot of them were the same thing. They were bullied or whatever, you know, they were you know small or tall or skinny or geeky or whatever, and they were bullied, so they took martial arts and then you know the bullying start part ended, but the the the what the benefit part uh stayed with them, so they stayed with it a long time, right?

SPEAKER_02 8:50

Yeah, it's great. I think it's such a discipline, Brian. I know a couple guys at box as well, and that sort of falls into the same vein, the same sort of conversation that's that surrounds all of that. Yeah, I went through the bullying thing too. I mean, it was horrendous. I had a weight problem as a kid. It's hard to believe today when you look at me, but you know, I had a 44-inch waist heading into grade eight and was about five and five feet ten. Yeah, it was really a tough time. And I think unless you've been there, uh you you can't relate. So, you know, I I went through quite a bit. I didn't have I and I will tell you a martial arts story. Uh, believe it or not, I mom and dad signed me up for judo. Yeah. And I went to a couple of sessions, and I'll never forget this. The coach or one of the coaches came to mom and dad and said, Listen, you know, we'd love to have Michael here, but we got nobody here that can throw him. He weighs, he weighs too much. So the irony of that story was I go to judo to deal with the bullying about my weight problem to be told I've got a weight problem.

SPEAKER_00 9:35

Right. You could have been the bully for the judo guys. Go ahead, flip me. I'm gonna flip you. Maybe you should have got into sumo.

SPEAKER_02 9:43

I don't know, Brian. Maybe maybe I picked the wrong sport or wore the wrong costume, perhaps.

SPEAKER_00 9:47

Maybe I wouldn't be where I am for all those things that happened to me in the past. If they hadn't happened, how would that have changed the trajectory of my life? Did it get it motivate me? In my case, I do believe that some of those things like that motivated me to do things. So I make this argument. I'm not going to a martial arts class.

SPEAKER_02 10:06

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 10:06

But when I'm playing pickleball, I'm thinking a lot about martial arts. I'm movements, the core movements and stuff that I've learned. Particularly here in Kingston, the instructors that I had here were really, really good.

SPEAKER_01 10:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:21

Uh all my instructors were good, but particularly the ones here with the core movement, uh, body movement. Sure. Uh I take that into my when I'm on the court in a pickleball game.

SPEAKER_02 10:32

Yeah, well, I think it's uh, you know, uh power is knowledge. I mean, it's an old saying, but it's true. And I think the more educated anyone is, and whether we apply that brush, Brian, to finance or martial arts or pickleball, I mean, it all stands to reason. And the more you understand about what it is that you're engaged in and what the expected outcome of that is, I think, you know, and it also helps temper the expectation. I think if you go into something anything in life, a little uneducated or a little unsure, um, you can set yourself up for failure. I mean, emotionally, physically, and perhaps in this case financially, because you know, you have to be realistic. And that's probably one of the areas I struggle with in pickleball. I don't drill, but I want to get better.

SPEAKER_00 11:07

Right.

SPEAKER_02 11:08

So I hope you've got the magic, the Harry Potter answer to that too. No? Okay, darn. I was hoping for that.

SPEAKER_00 11:15

You know, it's funny you say that because one of the one of maybe I maybe this just me, but this is like one of the one of the great things I've found about pickleball for me.

SPEAKER_01 11:24

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 11:25

I don't join new groups actually very easily in in my life. But so that, you know, when you say people are unsure, so they, you know, they're a little afraid to do something new. Pickleball's reached that point of that that uh reached um critical mass that people want to do it because people are doing it. And because of the most of the nature of people's pickleball, right? It's it's they're they're they're whether they're unsure or not, it's great, it's critical mass. I must do it because other people are doing it. I heard so many good things about it, right? And for me, it was like that. When I started playing pickleball, people you go down and people were I did it in my condo, you know, originally, and then you're going out uh out further afield from there, and people right out of the gate were, I don't know who you are, but let's play.

SPEAKER_02 12:10

Yeah, well, that's awesome. Well, I want to get in. I want to get into that very specifically with you in just a minute, but let's wrap up this first part of the conversation. So we start coaching at a very young age, you're a kid, you're looking for some summer jobs, you get into that, you do that, you get into martial arts to deal with some issues and in the bullying field, which is great, and that learn um you know lessons and discipline and commitment, and uh you don't get anywhere unless you try hard. And then you get into the world of finance, and you did that very successfully. I want to point that out. I don't know the story specifically, but I know you I know you did very well. Uh and I retired early. I was gonna say, yeah, yeah, absolutely. And they know you in the Cayman Islands, so it's always it's always a good thing. Mr. Brian. Mr. Brian.

SPEAKER_00 12:47

No, no, it's it's a jersey now, Mike. Of England or whatever.

SPEAKER_02 12:50

What do I know? But yeah, listen, congrats on all that. And I think um, you know, what I would like to do is put a ball on all of that. And I think, you know, that obviously, Brian, has shaped you uh as a coach, as a pickleball coach today. And that's the primary focus of today is to get into some of that conversation, your thoughts as a player and a fan and a coach. So we're gonna touch on all three of those if we have some time today. So that's awesome. Um, tell me about pickleball. Tell me about the first game that you remember playing. Tell me if you remember who who was the person, because we all have one. For for us, it was one of the local club members that uh was involved in uh the building out of the facility at the Kingston Pickleball Club. It was Pam Bid Noss that had said to us, Hey, you got to come try this. And we're like, Well, and I and I'll be honest, and I'll tell Pam this, and I have told her this. Uh, we went with some reluctance to the first game that we ever played. But that was the first of many. I mean, it that was it. It was just that one game, and that's all it took. So I know exactly who is responsible for my addiction. I can I can name her. It is an addiction. We can talk about that. And it is an addiction. So do you remember? Do you remember it all back those?

SPEAKER_00 13:49

Uh yeah, as basically, well, you know, um my wife passed away from cancer back in late 2019.

SPEAKER_01 13:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:58

And um COVID started.

SPEAKER_01 14:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:01

And, you know, we got locked down and everything. Um anyway, uh, I took up guitar, I picked up a guitar and started trying to learn to play guitar. Oh, okay. And I sold my house and I bought a condo, and um, you know, the weather was getting nice in the fall or the spring, I can't remember which. I think it was the fall. Um and I'm sitting out on my deck, which overlooks the tennis slash pickleball courts in my uh building, and they're down there playing, and they look like they're having a good time. They could still play outside with COVID going on, and so I eventually I went down there and uh Wow. I went down there and uh played.

SPEAKER_02 14:37

That was it.

SPEAKER_00 14:38

And that was that.

SPEAKER_02 14:38

Wow. Do you remember the people that were there? And do you still are you still in touch with some of those?

SPEAKER_00 14:43

Well, they're all live in my building. Uh it was all people from my building. Sure. Um, what was their name? Gene Barkley, I think it was, what's taught me how to play. Okay. Um yeah, and they had all the rules. And then we're just welcoming it. Come on in and uh had no clue what I was doing, right?

SPEAKER_02 14:58

Interesting. Basically, well, well, here's a question. I don't a lot of people that come into the game, Brian, come from a racket sports background, whether it be badminton squash. Did you do any of that? I don't I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 15:05

I played ping pong when I was younger. I played, I did play badminton um, you know, before my uh for a while there after my kids got a little older. I did I did wasn't doing karate. I stopped doing karate when my kids are really young for a bit because so much time consumption. And then I got back to badminton, then I went back to karate. Um, but I did play some some badminton. Neat. I I've hit a squash ball once or twice, racquetball, but you know.

SPEAKER_02 15:29

Do you think it's an advantage, Brian, as a coach? And I'm jumping ahead a little bit, but it's a good time to ask you the question. I don't want to forget not to ask it. But how much of an advantage does a racket player have coming into pickleball? You know, you take someone like me, I had a bad golf, you know, my my only sport really in life was golf, ultimately. I wasn't particularly good at it. So when I stepped on that, you know, pickleball court for that first time and subsequently met you that Monday night, you know, I I came with no racket experience whatsoever. And I still fight it today. But do you think it gives someone a 10% advantage, uh or a 50% advantage over a non- Well, there's the interesting thing, it's it's a paddle, not a racket.

SPEAKER_00 16:01

But you know, we we interchangeably use that word. Yeah. And the question is, is does that matter? I gotta look and think and think, I've been in tournaments and I see guys show up and it's like a tournament and going like, I never started, I you know, I picked up a pickleball paddle two months ago, but I did 30 years of tennis or 30 years of badminton or 30 years of ping pong. And I've seen those guys come in pretty hot, like pretty fast. And you're like, eh, you're not a 3-0 player, you're not a 3-0 player when you've got 30 years of ping-pong skills. That's a great point. You just gotta learn a couple of things, but holy smokes, none of none of those players, you know, if they came in at a 3-0 tournament or whatever, even a 3-5, it's like didn't stay there very long because they just had to figure out the the court and moving around and stuff.

SPEAKER_02 16:48

But yeah, I think yeah, personally, I'm not a coach and I and I never will be, but you know, I'm a player and I'm a fan, so I fill those two boxes. And I've got to tell you, I've played a lot of pickleball in the last three years, at least by my standard, I've played a lot, and I've met a lot of people. And the ones that immediately stand out to me when I've never met them, after I've played with them, I'll I'll you know, I'll go over and say what was your sport? And inevitably it it's either badminton, squash, tennis. And I think the tennis guys in particular have that sweeping stroke, yeah. You know, that they they hit those roll shots so beautifully. Um, so yeah, I th I think personally there's a huge advantage coming into pickleball if you've got some kind of racket sports experience for sure.

SPEAKER_00 17:23

To a degree.

SPEAKER_02 17:24

To a degree.

SPEAKER_00 17:25

To a degree. I've seen lots lots of tennis people. If you can't morph take the skills that you need and hang on to them and dump the dump the things that you shouldn't, like you can't play the game on the baseline against good players, right? If you can get away with just about every one of those skills at 3-0 or 3-5 level, but once you get to 4-0 level, it starts to if you don't have the other skills, it breaks down because you're getting away with it because you're playing against players who who don't have the counter recipe uh to deal with it. But once you start to play with players that, you know, if look you're a fantastic driver tennis from the baseline, accurate driver. But if you get good players who can do resets, yeah, yeah, you're screwed because you're sitting on the baseline and they're dropping balls in the kitchen.

SPEAKER_02 18:09

Oh, yeah, they're neutralizing immediately. I had that yesterday. I had a guy, he was obviously an ex-tennis player, never left the baseline, and everything was a drive. So we just kept soft dropping it over the net. And you know, before we knew it was 11-3, he wasn't happy. But but I think yeah, my point to be clear is just I think at the entry point to the game, if you have never played pickleball, you're coming in with no rocket sports experience versus someone with some tennis badminton. I think that person has a slight advantage. Absolutely for sure.

SPEAKER_00 18:32

If you don't know how to hit a ground stroke and they've been in ground strokes for 20 years, they've got at least one shot, yeah. Uh one shot at, you know, they're at least one rung on the ladder up ahead of you, right?

SPEAKER_02 18:42

Yeah, that's interesting. Well, listen, let's go back to the condo. Let's go back to that first game that you're playing with your with your neighbors and and uh fellow condo owners. And uh when does the addiction kick in? Did it kick in right then and there, or did it take a bit of time? And did you have any doubt in your mind, or was it immediate for you, that yeah, this is this is a game for me?

SPEAKER_00 19:03

I think it was pretty quick.

SPEAKER_02 19:04

I bet. I bet it was pretty quick. Yeah, yeah. Where did you go after that then? I mean, the condos got that. You said you think it was the fall. Where is it?

SPEAKER_00 19:14

I'm thinking back now, it was the fall, and then of course, then it's like, well, you know, it's they've got you know, they they they played pickleball as long as they could before they put the nets away. And then it's like, now what am I gonna do?

SPEAKER_02 19:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:26

Which is a funny joke we we often uh say to ourselves down in down down south. Now what am I gonna do? I finished playing pickleball, now what am I gonna do? Um and uh so I I get asking and people like, well, I play uh, you know, I play at a community center somewhere.

SPEAKER_02 19:41

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 19:42

Right? Sure. So the city had had community centers all over town, right? Now remember I was just coming up my my wife had passed away. I probably had some PTSD because she was in the hospital for two months, and I basically lived in the hospital, and and I was like kind of wrung out, and COVID had happened, and it was like you're totally isolated from everybody. Yeah, it was tough to my kids were in Toronto doing, you know, isolated and uh um you know, and then I and then you couldn't do anything for a bed, and then it'll start to open up, and then you could play if you wore a mask. And so there's community centers all across town. And when I first started started to get going, I'd I'd go and book 16 players maximum. So you had to like, you know, you're like fighting to book a spot and something, you know, literally you'd be there at the place and you wouldn't start for the first five minutes because everybody was booking the next session, trying to get you know, beat the other guy to get on and book in. Where did I used to play the um uh what's the pool downtown? Um Artillery. Yeah, Artillery Park. Yeah. Used to play at Artillery Park. Sure. And then they opened the new community center on the um up highway 15 uh uh after I started playing there. So anyway, I started at Artillery Park and I'd play like two hours.

SPEAKER_02 20:53

Okay, how often?

SPEAKER_00 20:54

Well, I was dead. Like twice a week.

SPEAKER_02 20:58

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 20:58

Two hours. Yeah. I was finished.

SPEAKER_02 21:00

That was it.

SPEAKER_00 21:01

Finished, finished. Like I was still recovering because when when when my wife was ill, I was literally in the hospital, you're getting woke up every couple hours. Yeah. I was with her. I was I was totally messed up. My sleep was totally messed up. I was lucky I was getting two, three solid hours a night of sleep. So really, you'd have you know, I was falling, I'd just be like sitting around, it was COVID. I'd just be like sitting around reading a book and just would pass out in the chair. I'd fall asleep because it was so messed up on the sleep, right? But I figured exercise would help to square that out and eventually did. But it was like yeah, two hours. I was done for the day or finished. I'm not kidding, right? So I play like on I think it was Tuesdays and Thursdays or Monday, Wednesday, Friday. I can't remember. Right. So I was doing that, you do that like twice a week.

SPEAKER_01 21:47

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:48

And then it was I started to build up some strength, and then it was three days a week. And then it was like, Oh, there's a place that has it on Tuesdays.

SPEAKER_02 21:57

I can slip into that game.

SPEAKER_00 21:58

I can, I can, I can sign up for that. One, then it was four days a week.

SPEAKER_02 22:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:02

Then it was five days a week. And karate was just like this too. I was like, oh yeah, like I'm I'm probably a bit OCD. I get into something, I get in, I go in, I got get get going. So as I got strength, and it's like there's got to be a place that plays on Saturday.

SPEAKER_02 22:16

Has to be.

SPEAKER_00 22:16

There has to be a place that has got you know, and then it so then then you knew it was you knew when it was an addiction when you went when you went from I'm playing two hours to okay, I'm done here at Artillery Park. Now I'm heading over to now heading over to this other place to play for two more hours at another place, you know, an hour to get lunch and then zip over to another place and play. So then it was like five days a week plus twice on two days a week.

SPEAKER_02 22:43

Well, why not? Why not? Why not? Why does that happen? And it's happened to so many. I mean, your story is interesting, but it's not unique. I mean, in that sense, Brian, because that's exactly what happens. I mean, you know, I had days, you know, when I was really into it and I've I've had to back off a little bit. I I do a bit of curling now, and it and it's the same thing happened. I curled six games last week. I think I've got seven this week, uh, sparing for different people. It just, I don't know what's wrong with me, but that's what I'm doing. And I I would have six-hour pickleball days. And it really wasn't fair to the guys that I played with in that third game because I'm gassed.

SPEAKER_00 23:14

Third game or third hour?

SPEAKER_02 23:15

I hope yeah, third hour. Not third game. Yeah, sorry, gas.

SPEAKER_00 23:19

Nobody wants you if you're if you're gassed out after the third game.

SPEAKER_02 23:22

Nobody wants me either way. Let's be honest. Nobody wants to be a good one. I love it. But no, by that third game or the you know, the fourth hour, fifth hour, sixth hour, yeah, you're starting to fade. But you know, I don't know what it is. You can't say no. You just cannot say no. And and it inevitably somebody thought they had a game together, they're short one person. You're on your way at the door. I've literally come I've come back in from the parking lot.

SPEAKER_00 23:42

It doesn't happen to me much anymore, but that used to happen. Sure. That used to happen a lot when KPC first opened. Oh my God, don't go. No, you know, I was I remember them doing open houses and I'd be at the be at the open house and it'd be like hour six, and you're like, I really should stop. And you think about leaving some and go, We need one more. Do you got one more gaming yet? We need one more player, and you go, Oh, okay. It's embarrassing. I remember doing eight hours once at opening house.

SPEAKER_02 24:09

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 24:10

I mean, you had some breaks in between.

SPEAKER_02 24:12

But still.

SPEAKER_00 24:12

But I can't do it now. The interesting thing is, is as as you've improved as a player, yeah. Psychologically, it's much more wearisome. The game is much more uh strategically difficult. It is strangely easier to play longer at the lower level than it is now uh at the higher level.

SPEAKER_02 24:32

Yeah, yeah, it's funny. You're absolutely well back then it was hit and chase. That's all it was. Hit it and chase it, probably in the wrong direction, but hit and chase nonetheless. So yeah, what a game. Yeah, I hate to admit it's embarrassing. I've turned around in the parking lot. Like I've been on my way home, and somebody is coming in saying, Can you stay? Sure, absolutely. Doesn't take much to turn me around like a dog and a bone. I'm back in there going again for another two hours. So yeah, what a game. Well, what a time, you know, back. And I appreciate you being so candid and sharing the story of your wife, and it was a tragic story, and and COVID on top of it. I mean, how much credit do you give Pickleball to helping you in that moment, Brian? It's a personal question. Are you kidding? Yeah, like how much how much? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:07

Um a lot. I don't want to say what what where things would have gone without it.

SPEAKER_02 25:13

I get it. Right. Yeah, that's the beauty of the game. And I think that's you know, the be the point behind the podcast is to talk about those types of moments because I think for those that don't play and haven't played, don't think they want to play. You know, my goal is not to monetize the channel. My goal is not to, you know, make any money off this. Uh my hope is to get one.

SPEAKER_00 25:28

So that's good because I don't have any money in my wallet.

SPEAKER_02 25:31

Well, we yeah, there is a cover charge.

SPEAKER_00 25:33

There's a tip jar here somewhere, isn't there? Finish your water of your bottle and I'll stick a I'll stick some dimes in there.

SPEAKER_02 25:39

Tip jar or a cover charge. I was thinking of a cover charge, maybe, but you know, the game uh serves so many people in so many different ways. And I think, you know, for those that haven't tried it, uh I'm that's my goal. Get one person to try it. You know, and if I get one person to step on a paddle, uh pickleball court with a paddle in their hand, I think, I think uh I've had a number of people so far on the podcast say it changes lives. And maybe in some cases it saves lives.

SPEAKER_00 26:01

Well, I think I personally believe, yeah, based on my own experience, that I see people, particularly people you say who play a lot, like I do, I would say if you probably looked on the underlying instead of you know, alcohol, sex drugs, alcohol, whatever, uh, it's pickleball is solving some personal problem for them that would be would emerge in some other way. And they do it, they're they're getting they're getting that and get some exercise, socialization. You're probably gonna live longer. There's all kinds of research that shows that you know that if you got exercise in a weight room versus on a tennis court, and I'm sure it applies to pickleball, the socialization aspect adds something. I'm always looking at research, by the way. Yeah, you know, adds something like four to five extra years on your life. And it's not the exercise part, it's the it's the socialization part that you get with people, right?

SPEAKER_02 26:55

Absolutely huge, Brian. I the word lonely and loneliness has has come up a couple of times now on the podcast in the few episodes I've had a chance to record so far from different people looking at the game through a different lens. The sense that the game solves some of that loneliness for a lot of people, and to your point, gets them off the couch, gets them moving, gets them closer to that 10,000 step a day target that that we can talk about. That's a whole different conversation. But yeah, I don't think people are moving enough. And I think pickball gives you a chance to do that. So that's awesome. So let's break you down into three buckets and let's have a conversation about all three of those buckets. You're you're a coach, you're a player, you're a fan. Um, let's tackle the coaching one. Let's get that out of the way because we kind of started there today. And tell me where you are today as a coach. Tell me about your qualifications, the work that it took to get where you are, and ultimately where are you trying to get to as a coach in the game today? Walk me through all that.

SPEAKER_00 27:44

Uh well, let's talk about how that ended up.

SPEAKER_02 27:47

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 27:47

Um, way back when I first started, yeah. Um Donna Bernard and I, Donna Robinson, a good friend of mine, very good friend of mine, her and her husband Steve. Um, we were playing. They got me to play at the Y, which one more place I added on once I got to got going there. Donna was my massage therapist. Great, great. And she kept saying, She's come play at the Y, she'll come play at the Y. So we went in the Canadian Nationals were being held in Kingston in 2020, I think, or 2021, 2022. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:18

I can't remember when it was. In that date range, somewhere.

SPEAKER_00 28:19

Somewhere in there, somewhere in there. You lose track, right? Um so we went in, went in that together, right? And I went in like five events. I went in singles, I went in two men, two men's and two mixed.

SPEAKER_01 28:30

Right.

SPEAKER_00 28:31

And uh Donna was uh partner with me in um both of those, I think. And I got slaughtered. Did you playing at the Y? I was mostly playing with people older than me. And so you're playing and you're thinking you know what you're doing, and then you go into there, and I just got absolutely hammered my ass handed to me on a platter, to put it bluntly. I think I went out back afterwards and smashed my paddle and and started just basically start over. Oh, like literally going, What the heck is going on? I thought I knew how to play this thing, it was you know, everybody's simple game, and it wasn't. And so that was early in the spring. That was right when KPC opened up, actually. Sure. Um and uh then Yuchi Kai uh and I would uh we would go over to Bay Ridge, had new courts, and basically I'd I said, okay, I have to basically throw up everything, throw out everything I know, throw up, and then throw out everything I know.

SPEAKER_02 29:29

Yeah, do both.

SPEAKER_00 29:30

And then uh and go back and completely start from scratch and reinvent the wheel, what I thought I was knew what I was supposed to be doing versus doing. A very good classic example was hey, you know, after you um, you know, you gotta get to the kitchen.

SPEAKER_01 29:45

Go, right?

SPEAKER_00 29:46

You gotta get to the kitchen. So I'd literally be like, like I remember like like having my feet like starter blocks, you know, at the tournament, like ready to, you know, as soon as I hit the ball, I gotta bolt to the kitchen, right? And then I signed up for 3.5, not 3.0, right? Which was insane. Yeah. Um and you know, and so the guys are then hitting it to your feet, and you're going, like, what the hell's going wrong? Right. Yeah. And everything just went wrong. So you're going, okay, I got it. So that's you know, a summer of watching videos, watching games. I learn a lot from watching games, watching actual people play. Yeah, my brain's I'm lucky. I got a brain that's kind of like kind of like a tape recorder. I watch people play and I can see patterns because I played chess when I was a kid a little bit, and I think that you know, you see like, why is he doing that? And you're going, you know, if you see a rally that lasts for three shots, you don't learn anything from that. But you watch some rally that goes 25 shots, people are obviously doing the right things and getting in the right positions, probably. And so you're watching that and going, like, what did they do versus what did what do I do?

SPEAKER_02 30:48

Yeah, that makes a difference.

SPEAKER_00 30:49

Yeah, and uh so I I started a crash course basically doing a lot of drilling, a lot of drilling, uh, and practicing, used to play less skinny singles, lost every game, you know, kind of idea. But I was getting better. And uh and then when we got into fall, I basically needed some drill partners, so I put the word out, and there was one guy, Colin Vows, a buddy of mine, he's moved out west. You remember calling?

SPEAKER_02 31:13

Yeah, very much.

SPEAKER_00 31:14

Yeah, and um, so he said, Yeah, I'll I'll um I'd like to drill. I want to drill. So we just started a sort of uh training Tuesdays, I called it. Training Tuesdays, training Thursdays, because it was a T. It reminded me of the T. And you could get the 11 to 1 slot because nobody wanted the 11 to 1 slot. It's always open. People came in at 8:30, done by 11, 10:30, 11, and then nobody really wanted to play in the afternoon, was playing in the afternoons then.

SPEAKER_01 31:38

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_00 31:39

So 11 to 1 was perfect because they didn't close the club at one for a while. So it was perfect. So we got you know, him and I came in, and then uh I met this uh woman, Jamie Primo, one night. We were we were playing, and it was like she was like, Yeah, I'd like to, I'd like to uh I'd like to drill. And uh, you know, I said, Well, I got this thing going like 11 to 1. Well, okay, I could come 12 to 1 on lunch. She lived somewhere around here nearby the club, so I think she could get away for lunch or whatever. She worked at home, I think. Yeah, and we come over, and then I picked up a couple more players, uh Sam Colletti, Margaret Mebben, and they were all like, I want to drill, right? And I heard you're drilling. Okay. So then it's like, then we get there, and everybody goes, Well, what are we gonna do? And I'm like, Oh, okay, well, somebody, you know, they're looking for leadership, so somebody has to lead. So that what happened then every week was basically, okay, I gotta have a plan. I gotta know what we're gonna do for two hours. Yeah, because two hours is actually a long period of time. Yeah, it is. So I literally started writing out, you know, what do we go, you know? I'd go look up drills online and what are we gonna work on? And you know, you start, yeah, we play and we think we play for a bit, and you think about, you know, what does everybody suck at, right? Well, everything, but what do we suck at the most?

SPEAKER_02 32:52

Right, let's work on that.

SPEAKER_00 32:53

Let's work on that, you know. Let's work on the worst thing, right? And try to try to, you know, fix it up, right?

SPEAKER_02 33:00

Yeah, yeah. So, really, to if I can just grab that for a second, Brian, you um you started off with the intent to get better yourself. Yes, needed a partner in which to do that, and people just started latching on.

SPEAKER_01 33:10

Right.

SPEAKER_02 33:11

Hey, I want to get better, I want to level up. How can you know? So you didn't really set off in that moment to become a coach. Is that fair? You had no idea. Yeah, right. No, no, no. I'm just gonna go, I want to get better because I want to play up, I want to level up. So fascinating. I wonder how many coaches that you and I might have a familiarity with, you know, names that we would all know sort of in the bigger pickleball picture, um, started off the same way. I wonder. I bet. Well, I love that. I love this story, and I love the get getting it in my head wrapped around how it started. I do very clearly remember Colin and that group that you've mentioned. I remember you guys coming in, you know, like you say, at the 11 o'clock and drilling. And yeah. So sitting here today, we're recording this in March of 2026 to date and time stamp it. So in case it's listened to at some point in the future, but where you are today as far as your coaching credentials, Brian, are you looking to expand that? Uh you still looking to grow that song.

SPEAKER_00 33:56

So I've got the level two. Yeah. I'm thinking about doing uh pickleball coaching international level two, just because it's international. Okay. I mean, I don't know where I would do that at, right?

SPEAKER_02 34:05

Um and is this a hobby right now for you or is it more than a hobby at this point? Is it just something that you feel compelled? Let me let me rephrase that. Do you feel a sense of responsibility, Brian, to give back to the game in some way? It's given you, obviously, we're very kind to share your personal journey into pickleball and what it meant to you at that point in your life. Is there something about you or a part of you that feels compelled to give back to the game in some way?

SPEAKER_00 34:25

Is there any I don't know if compelled is the word I use. I worked in service business at the bank, right? Uh, you know, as a professional money manager, but it's a service business, right? And you know, I did martial arts, and uh, you know, supposedly the word samurai means to serve, right? And so um interesting. That used to be my moniker at one point, Kingston Samurai, right? It's like to serve. I like I like helping people, and would I do it for free? Shall once in a while, maybe, but I would you might get swamped with people. So basically, you say my time is my time has value, so I've assigned a time on it. Um, but still I don't charge very much compared to I was just talking to uh texting with my friend uh Donna this morning, and you know they're 170 bucks an hour US down in uh down in Naples.

SPEAKER_02 35:11

Wow, and having no problem filling the class. Yeah, yeah, it's crazy. Well, good for you. Well, congratulations and all that. I mean, I you know, I go back to that first encounter you and I had, and as intimidated and terrified as I was, you were very helpful. And there was something about you in that moment that I think has lent itself to where you are today in coaching. I think it's part of you. Uh so congrats on all that. Two quick questions on coaching, and then we'll move on to you being a fan and a player. Um, how important is that relationship with a client? So if I come to you as a new client potentially, is there a moment where you, you know, do we have to click or or is it so technical that personalities don't necessarily no, I don't agree with that at all. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 35:47

I'm I'm a I uh this is my opinion.

SPEAKER_02 35:50

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 35:50

My opinion is that um Yeah, you gotta click.

SPEAKER_02 35:54

Yeah, I agree.

SPEAKER_00 35:54

You gotta click. If you don't like, if you don't my style is my style. I guarantee you, my style doesn't work for someone. Okay. Some people, right? Who they are, I have no idea. I just know that they're because they're not they're not asking me to do it. Right. They've looked at me and says, I don't like your style, so no, even if you did, I I wouldn't, right? Or somebody comes to you, and you always ask yourself that question. Somebody comes to you the first time and they, you know, may take a lesson with you and you never see them again.

SPEAKER_02 36:24

You kind of know.

SPEAKER_00 36:25

You kind of well, no, not necessarily. There might not be the reason, but it might have been the reason. Right. You think about it. I think about it anyway. I overthink a lot of things. So you know, but I think but I think about that that might be might be the reason. But I definitely believe that different players and coaches have different communication. It's a communication style. Different people have different communication styles, sure, and they can the the way the person responds to communication style, right? And and when I was younger, I learned that because I used to teach kids and was teaching karate, and it was like, you know, you're coming out like you're in the military, and you know, it you don't like it. Didn't like it, didn't didn't work very well.

SPEAKER_02 37:02

Yeah, well, is it not is it not a relationship though, Brian the true sense of the word? You're creating a relationship between player and coach, uh, not unlike uh any other relationship. There's got to be some some connection there on some level in order for it to work. I'm glad to hear you say that because I think uh there are certain coaches that don't necessarily subscribe to that. But as a player who has had a lesson or two that didn't go well, uh yeah, I think there needs to be a connection for sure. Final question.

SPEAKER_00 37:25

I might be talking about the average player, not a professional player. Maybe a professional player says, I don't care whether I hate that coach. If they're a great coach, I'll I'll live with the fact that I hate them.

SPEAKER_01 37:34

Sure.

SPEAKER_00 37:35

You know, ever seen the movie Whiplash, right? And it's like the guy hates the guy, but he brings out the very best in him.

SPEAKER_02 37:42

Right. So it works.

SPEAKER_00 37:43

Which is a whole nother thing about, you know, we could get into a whole podcast about uh addiction gone wrong in a sport, which I think about.

SPEAKER_02 37:51

Maybe we'll do that. I'll mark it. I'll mark it down, we'll have you back. Final question on coaching. Have you, in the time that you've coached, run into anyone in pickleball, Brian, that you would classify as uncoachable? In other words, is this a game that everyone can learn, or is there just a certain amount of physicality and and athleticism that you really do have to have in order to even get to a two five level?

SPEAKER_00 38:12

Oh, sure. Uh is the people that are uncoachable? Sure. If a pussy doesn't think that what uh I could bring to the table is gonna go to them, then they're uncoachable to me.

SPEAKER_01 38:24

Right.

SPEAKER_00 38:25

Or uh, you know, uh or I'm unco I'm unco I'm uncoach to them. Sure. But is anyone uncoachable? I've never, I've never yeah, I'm not to say that there isn't, but I've never encountered anyone that that I've coached that is not coachable, you know.

SPEAKER_02 38:40

Well the reason for those two questions was uh, you know, I and I hope there's someone listening today that may have taken a lesson and it didn't go well, because that's me. I had a lesson that didn't go well once, and I remember coming home and saying to my wife that uh I just don't know about this game. Like if this is what this game's all about, I'm not sure it's for me. And and and quite honestly, Brian, I almost gave up at that point. And it was just a disconnect between the coach and I, and this particular individual spent more time hitting me in the shoulders and the forehead and the belly and body shots and and telling me all the things. I don't remember one positive that came out of that lesson where this person said to me, Hey, you're you you're really you know pretty good at this. I think you can become somewhat paralyzed as a player who's looking to get better, who wants to level up. If you run into the wrong coach, and again, just to reiterate the point why I wanted to get into this with you, Dave, it was a key point for me. I think there are people out there that have tried coaching, it didn't go well. And my fear is they've given up on either coaching or worse yet, they've given up on the game. They've come away as I almost did, thinking this might not be for me. And and I love the game so much and I care so much for the game that I don't want to see that happen. So if this message reaches just one person who's listening right now who tried coaching and it didn't work, I'm gonna put the show notes uh contact points for Brian Cann uh into the show notes for sure, and we're gonna do that.

SPEAKER_00 39:51

Um I'm all for it. I just because human beings, yeah, uh I don't everybody has the personal quibbles, they has they have their emotional uh stuff and they have their preferences. And so I I totally accept not everybody wants to be coached by Brian Cann. My style, my my things. Some people go, You're too cavalier, you're too serious. Some places say you're too serious, you're too you're too you're too I don't like the sound of your voice, whatever, whatever. I don't I don't really care. I don't care. I'm not doing it for a living. I'm doing it because I like helping people, uh help the people that that want the help. I'm fully endorse and and desire uh more coaches. I'm not doing it for a living, so I don't really care. I get I can get if coaching do it for a living. You maybe don't want you don't want competition, but I personally believe well competition bring will bring the best coaches to the top. If I'm not one of them, yeah, then no one will ask me to coach them. Yeah, fine, then I won't. Yeah, or lower my prices so far. So far, I'm gonna get some business that I do that I do because I want to help, because I do want to help people. But I think that earnestly, because I do want to help people, I I guess that comes out or whatever. And so it's it's evident that I'm passionate about it and that I do want people to uh you know succeed, right? I literally when that uh I I subbed in for a guy last week in the class and it was four players, and the one woman was having difficulty with the serve, and we finished up and she still had time. And I said, I'm sticking around until you hit one who did one or two good serves. Right. And we just we just I didn't say too much. I said to just just do like this, you know, and she was having trouble. I said, Oh, just try the only thing I says, try a wider sort of describe a C with your arm into a bit of a wider don't don't be inhibit yourself so much, right? We do she wasn't getting it over the net. Well, she she hit a bunch, she hit a bunch over. I said, Good, okay, my job is done. I'm leaving. I'm leaving, okay? But you know, I wanted to leave, I didn't want to leave on failure, I wanted to leave on success.

SPEAKER_02 41:47

For sure. Well, it's an important part of the conversation, Dave Brian. So I hope we've done our part and encouraging anyone that's out there listening to not give up on that first experience because you know, not every experience in life, whether we're talking coaching or anything else for that matter, uh, if you gave up every time something didn't go well, you know, you wouldn't get much done. So well, thanks for that. That was really awesome. Let's talk about you as a player. Um, where are you today in the game? What are you trying to achieve? Are you doing tournament play still? Are you just doing where are you? Give me a sense of where am I? Where is Brian Cann the player today? We've heard about the coach, which is great, but where are you as a player today?

SPEAKER_00 42:17

Well, my duper is 4.1.

SPEAKER_02 42:20

Well, congratulations. I'm duper confused, so it means nothing to me.

SPEAKER_00 42:23

And I and I I sometimes think duper is confused. I don't really know. I don't need anybody. I'm a math guy from way back, statistics and everything, and I see their numbers and I listen to the stories, and I I understand what they're saying, but I can't understand how their algorithm uh comes up with the numbers. Now, maybe they just don't have yet enough, the big enough data set. I don't know. But I've heard too many stories that are just that's just like I don't understand how two players play on a court against two other players and they win, and one player's duper moves and the other one doesn't or goes down, sure, or does the opposite. Yeah. And it's just I don't, I just I can't I can't fathom it. And I think they would do a bet better, and I know they're trying because I was on a duper conference call. I know they're trying, but I just it would be uh I'd love, I I think the biggest thing they could do is keep doing those duper calls and explaining to people how the how the algorithm works.

SPEAKER_02 43:21

Yeah. So your game today, so you're a 4.1 on duper, whatever that means, and we'll figure that out another time perhaps. But where what are you doing these days? Are you playing more uh or less? Playing lots.

SPEAKER_00 43:31

I was just down south playing probably four hours-ish a day. Well, tell me about that. Like not literally four hours nonstop, but four hours a day.

SPEAKER_02 43:39

I uh and down south we're talking Florida.

SPEAKER_00 43:42

Uh yeah. Well, sometimes people don't like to hear that, so I just say some people don't like where the you know they want you further south, right? Yeah, but uh we're not gonna get into that. Um so I play where they play the US Open. Super and I I have a place and a resort there and they have courts, and there's some really great, great Players, they're all great people. I helped coach the uh women's um 3.5 team and a 3.0 team there, yeah, and uh watch them improve the last couple of nights. It's just been fantastic. Uh helping them again. I just do that because I'm there. Uh something to do. We did things on Sunday and then help them during games. Um and uh and then the rest of the time when I'm not playing there, I play down on the um at the where they play the US Open, East Naples, it's called East Naples Community Center, and they have courts, I guess 60 courts. It's amazing. And uh, you know, they get tens of thousands of people for the U.S. Open, which is coming up. And uh I play on the I play whatever courts I'm playing on down there. Sometimes I play uh with friends on the 3.5 courts, but to play in the 4.0 courts, you have to have been uh uh certified, verified, whatever you want to call it.

SPEAKER_02 44:50

Assess. Yes, assessed. You need to be a shortcut.

SPEAKER_00 44:53

I got that done the other year. And uh so you got a tag that you carry, and they check your tag when you come over and you play, and I play there. Lots of great players and uh great games. I have my own net, it's set up in my living room, and I practice shots you do. Target shots. Of course you do. Why wouldn't you? In a box. Um who doesn't have a net in their living room? So but I didn't didn't generally play tournaments in the winter because I found my game really went backwards quite a bit. Um primarily because I think just the seasonal effective messed up with my sleep and all kinds of stuff. And so your hand-eye coordination was off, and then you get frustrated because you're not playing the way you could play, right? And and I'm really happy when I can play totally relaxed on the court, sure, and you just see shots that you can make, you know, ATPs, Ernie's just uh and and good precision shots, the shot you want to make, the shot your brain asked you to make, yeah, and your hand makes the shot. I love that when that happens. And when when I don't get enough sleep, I'm not sure this is like any sport, they don't get enough sleep, and your brain says, make the shot, and you don't, you know, you try to do a a four hand roll, and you just roll that right out the back over the net and into the next court, and you're just slapping yourself, going, I I can do this. God damn it.

SPEAKER_02 46:09

Yeah, it's funny you mentioned it.

SPEAKER_00 46:10

I could do it. What happened today? Right?

SPEAKER_02 46:12

You mentioned ATP a minute ago, and I want to draw you into another story, another Brian Cannes story, but I got my very first one at one point, which most people eventually do. You figure it out, you have the courage to step out and try it. And so I did this day, and you made a very nice leather bag tag, which I still have. Oh that uh first ATP. Yeah, I still do that.

SPEAKER_00 46:28

Yeah, I had a friend uh last fall, um uh they play at Bay Ridge. Their daughter, daughter was I don't know how old she is, maybe 12, 13, or whatever. She got it. They told me she got an A got an ATP. I made her tag. She was so excited to have an ATP tag. I have a whole series of them, right? I thought it, I thought it would be an interesting gig if people were interested, right? You know, ATP off a serve. I got an ATP off a serve once. Uh you know, your first Ernie, your first TUI, you know, kind of thing, and just you know, like uh like scouts badges, right? Was uh the idea, except they do them like a little leather pickleball tag and you hang it off your bag.

SPEAKER_02 47:05

Well, there are there are milestone moments, and and the reason I mentioned that today is because I played yesterday and I had an ATP. It was a beautiful ATP, which most are. This was really nice. And uh I thought of you in that exact moment. So the tag that you gave me, you know, you know, a couple years back, uh, it's rare for me. I don't get I don't get many of them, and that's partly because of the level I play at. You know, I'm playing down at this point. I I find I'm enjoying the social game way more than the competitive games. I've stepped out of that. Uh I haven't done a tournament in a couple of years, Brian.

SPEAKER_00 47:34

It's easy. What you do is you stand outside of the court off the kitchen, yeah, and you get your partner to get a dinking battle going and tell the guy to take the ball away to the outside. Yeah, and then the ATPs are easy because you're just standing right there.

SPEAKER_02 47:46

You're standing there. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:47

Nobody else will help you with that, but you know, it's you know, I appreciate that.

SPEAKER_02 47:50

Yeah, but it was a moment yesterday. You know, I just I just wanted to share that with you. So you're playing a lot, which is great. Uh, you still love tournaments? You did a lot of tournament players, you still love them. Yeah. What do you think the difference is, Brian, for the average player who maybe hasn't done a tournament? How would you describe a tournament day versus just dropping into a social play or playing in a regular Monday night game? What is that fundamental difference between the two games?

SPEAKER_00 48:10

Depends on your personality. For me, yeah, for me, it was a lot of intensity.

SPEAKER_02 48:15

Sure.

SPEAKER_00 48:16

Right?

SPEAKER_02 48:16

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:17

I'm playing with a partner, I don't want to let them down. Like I said, I played in that in that nationals that time and just lost every game. Went and went back out in the outside and wrecked my pad, destroyed my paddle at the end of it. Had a moment. Start over. This paddle doesn't work. This paddle's no damn good. I need a new paddle. You did then. You did then. Yes, yes, yes. Um, and then I went home and said, Yeah, I I need I I need a new paddle. I gotta just work with this paddle. I gotta work with I can work with you, baby. Yeah, right. So uh uh Yeah, tournament plays different. I mean uh yeah, so it's the in it's the intensity, it's the intensity level, right? The the but it's also the tournament. Uh is it a tournament that's gonna you're gonna go and they got dedicated courts and you're gonna go to your court and you're gonna play in your bracket, boom, boom, boom, boom, and you're finished, right? Or you're gonna play and then you might be an hour and a half, you know, waiting for your next game, depending on how the tournament is run. Um and that's so is that is that a is that a game of ability or a game of patience or a game of a person who can warm up faster than the other guys. And you know, I played in the tournament uh down in East Naples with Steve Robinson once a couple of years ago. When he went in 3-5, 13 teams in our bracket. Now they got 60 courts there. 60 courts.

SPEAKER_02 49:35

That's a lot.

SPEAKER_00 49:35

13 teams in our bracket. So and we had uh it was one of those uh it wasn't your regular, you play one game, you're gonna play it around Robin. It's basically you play three games. I can't remember how they call that. You play three games against the team, as many as three. And if you lose, you go down to the losers bracket. If you lose again, you're out. So you do get your uh three games minimum or four games in this case, right? So we played in that. It rained. You're supposed to start at 8 30. They said come at 9 30. We didn't start till 10 30. We didn't play our next match until 3 30.

SPEAKER_01 50:07

Oh, whoa.

SPEAKER_00 50:08

I'm sitting there, and it's hot down there. Yeah, I'm sitting there like Steve, we're just wandering around. They have great big announcement things, so we knew they'd announce. It's like we're sitting there going, courts are empty all over the place. We're waiting for our game, waiting for our game. Wow. We lost our first game, turned, lost our first match, set of matches. Well, they were the gold medal guys, so we face the gold medal guys right out of the gate. Why? Classic. Right? So we're down the bottom bracket. We're waiting, we're waiting. And I'm starving. It's noon. I'm hungry, but they might call us any minute. I don't know. When's it gonna go? Three o'clock. I finally order some fish and chips from the frame. Literally sit down with the food, brand can of steep robin center cart 53. You're like, God damn it.

SPEAKER_02 50:52

I should have had breakfast.

SPEAKER_00 50:53

Throw the food out. Which so there's the learning thing. Pack some food if you go to a tournament.

SPEAKER_02 50:59

Yeah, good point.

SPEAKER_00 51:00

Right?

SPEAKER_02 51:01

Yeah, well, the reason I wanted to touch on it with you was I've had both experiences. I've had tournaments that ran like a Swiss Army wall, you know, just boom, boom, boom, it was perfect, in and out, done, loved it. And then I've had tournaments where it's lagged and it's lagged. And and you do you mentally check out at some point. If you're not fueling yourself properly, if you're not getting some quiet, and trying to find a quiet space at a tournament can be a challenge too. Try to find a quiet corner, and it's not always easy. So yeah, tournament play, I would think is not for everyone, but I would encourage everyone to try it.

SPEAKER_00 51:26

If you want to get better, let me tell you. Try it. It's like you can play, you know, you can play rec game.

SPEAKER_01 51:31

Sure.

SPEAKER_00 51:31

You can play a competitive game, yeah. Then you can play a tournament game and useful, yeah. Yeah, each level is more intense. You think you're playing a competitive game and you think you're doing well, and you go in a tournament game, you're playing against other players just like you. You think you're practicing three times a week, so are they, probably. Yeah, you think you want to win this thing and you want to be a senior pro or whatever, so do they. Yeah, right? Yeah, and only there can only be there can be only one, like the Highlander, right?

SPEAKER_02 51:57

Well, and and inevitably, Brian, there's always that one team. And you know what I'm gonna say here. They don't belong there. Like your heart is kind of broken. You know, they just they somehow got into the bracket.

SPEAKER_00 52:07

I always hope I face them first so I get my warm-up. I get to cut my warm-up game teeth on that team.

SPEAKER_02 52:13

But I've been on both sides of the net on that one, and and it's not fun.

SPEAKER_00 52:16

I remember because you beat me once on a tournament. You and uh I can't remember who that was.

SPEAKER_02 52:20

I I don't remember ever beating you, ever.

SPEAKER_00 52:23

Yeah, it was a three-five. I remember you were wearing red shirts. Jeez.

SPEAKER_02 52:27

Um might have been Terry. Might have been Terry.

SPEAKER_00 52:29

Might have been, I think it was Terry Gross team. Yeah, I think it was.

SPEAKER_02 52:32

Just saw Terry last weekend in Peterborough. Yeah. Well, listen, that's great insight into all that. Um, tell me, uh, where do you settle on the game as a fan today? And that's gonna segue into a couple questions about the game today, Brian. And as a fan, perhaps a player and a coach, is there anything about the game that concerns you today? Are you concerned about paddle technology, about the big money in the tournaments, the debate between the different tours? What is threatening pickleball today? Because it's been on such such a gross spurt, and I think so many people have benefited from it. We've talked personally today about what it's done for you. I can echo a lot of that. It's been an important part of my life. I love the game. It's the reason for the podcast. Uh, I want to share the love, you know, share the love. What what what's on your radar today? You're very invested, far more invested than the average player. What do you see coming down the pipeline that might be a problem? And is it, to give you something to think about, uh, a threat from other racket sports, like uh I heard of a game called Tip T the other day. It's a version of tennis. You know, you've got paddle or padd coming on, you've got you know, different things, share of wallet. People only have so much time, so much money to invest in sports and recreation. Do you see a threat coming for pickleball today?

SPEAKER_00 53:36

Not not from another racket sport, but I'm I'm not yeah, I'm not that. I don't spend a lot of time thinking about that. I'm I'm basically now I'm coaching because I see massive growth in pickleball and the demand for coaching, right? So that's why partly why that you know I eventually got the credentials. It was there's you know, there's like uh, you know, this I mean if you're going 30% a year, so you got a thousand people in the city playing pickleball and you're going 30 percent a year, now you got 1,300 players, right? Well, let's say you got I mean what's the city of Kingston? We got 120,000, 130,000. So let's say you got let's say let's say you had 10,000 people playing pickleball in the city of Kingston, and we're growing by 30 percent. That's 3,000 people, that's 13,000 people. Yeah, there must be a few people in there that want coaching. You could literally be coaching as a full-time job with that many people, theoretic theoretically, right? Um because there's there's only like a half a dozen coaches or something, uh you know, maybe 10 coaches in all the entire city, right? Um, or and we're all of different calibers and experiences, but it's only 10. There's no probably if everybody really got serious about uh you know getting better through through coaching, that's the problem is people don't. They just take up the thing and they hit the ball. That's what my I'll get I'll get to your answer when that's a little pops to mind. It's a little it's it's I did it myself and I didn't do it. But I would say to you know, people is people when I'm coaching, particularly people who've been get going, and you see them doing stuff and you're going like, Well, you go, you pick up a paddle, somebody shows you how to play. They don't know how to play the very well either. They show you how to play. So you start you start doing that and you go for two or three years. It's kind of like which I was lucky I'd went in the nationals earlier, and I kind of blew up and said, Okay, before I get too far deep in, I better regroup I better regroup. And I've taken uh lessons with Jeff Elwood, you know, who's a really fantastic player and a coach. And I'm taking uh lessons, you know, when one of my big he said, what's your big thing? He says, Jeff, I'm afraid that I'm developing a habit that I don't even know of, doing something that's gonna become an iron habit that's gonna block me right from getting to four or five or something that I don't even know is happening because I don't know what I don't know. Yeah, right. So I need you, he said, What do you want to work on? I said, What I want you to do is I want you to look at my game and then tell me, you know, are you seeing me do something that's really fundamentally bad? And you get that with people probably beginners. You can really help a beginner because you see them, you know, well, you know, like bend your knees. Yeah, right. If you bent your knees, you'd be a better player, right? But you see people going, well, I saw that guy bend over to get that ball and scoop it off the ground. Well, he made it work, so I guess that's what I should do. So you cop because we we're copy machines. We're copy machines, we copy what other people do. Because if we're not taught something, what do we do? We copy.

SPEAKER_02 56:25

It's your only choice.

SPEAKER_00 56:26

You copy the wrong person, so I'm obsessive about doing things as right as I can. And if I see someone, something that makes me go, oh, I'm doing that wrong, or I could do that better, I'm changing, and I'm not afraid to go back to people and say, Oh, I know I said that, you know, six months ago, but this is what I'm saying now.

SPEAKER_01 56:44

Sure.

SPEAKER_00 56:44

Because I've evolved my game and you need to evolve because I I touched something I didn't know. I don't know everything, but I'm and I'm fallible that way, but certainly it needs to be uh be fixed.

SPEAKER_02 56:56

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_00 56:57

So when it comes to technology today, yeah, uh yeah. One thing I see is uh and I've done it myself, is you know, people getting more and more powerful paddles, but they can't control them because they don't have good shot control necessarily. So they're hoping they're hoping power will make up for so it should be a game of precision over power. Instead, they're going they're going for power over precision. And it works to a degree, particularly if you're like you're playing in your 50s or 60s. Now, I can't speak for 20-year-old. Maybe a 20-year-old they love whacking that ball back and getting into firefights and all that kind of thing. And it's great because you're 20 and your reflexes are hot and everything. Um but I certainly like the I'm uh I like the cat and mouse of you know hitting the drop shot, forcing, forcing the dinking, forcing the guy. Let's see what your dinking's like. Well, you give me an eyeball, I'm gonna put that ball away, right? So I force you into that, and and once you start playing with people who can hit like that, it's it's a different game. It's a different game.

SPEAKER_02 57:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 57:59

Well, I think you make the paddles so good that you can't do that, then I go, that game's gonna change a lot. It is fine. And what happens? And we're I feel like we're we're kind of getting there.

SPEAKER_02 58:09

Yeah, I think that if there was probably an underlying uh concern uh amongst the community, and by community I mean anyone involved in whether it's manufacturer, a player, a pro, a coach. Um I think paddle technology is probably gonna rise to the top of that conversation more often than not. I think it's the one that people are focused on. I yeah, but a lot of voices in all of this. And and I, you know, when I I I started curling, and one of the things that fascinated me about curling was in in January of this year, in January 26, they implemented some new uh curling Canada implemented some new rules as far as sweeping and brushing. Here's a sport, Brian, it's been around forever, and yet we're still adjusting and growing and making it a better sport. And I just hope pickleball keeps that at the forefront that we understand the importance of maintaining some kind of integrity within the game. And if we allow technology to override integrity, uh I think we got a problem. So I appreciate your answer on that.

SPEAKER_00 58:57

I think it's a problem in that's a problem in every sport. It is. And I don't know that's the right answer. I completely, I mean, yeah, I'm no expert. I could, you know, someone someone in the paddle tech guy, I'm sure if you sat him down in this seat, we'd go, You're an idiot. What the hell do you know? You don't know anything. No, I do make paddles, you don't know anything. But I do know, I do know that the hand, the eye responding to something and then sending a signal to the body, right? There is a finite limit to that of a of speed because it's a sick, it's a it's a nerve signal of response. Um and and it has a finite speed. And if you were to be able to move the speed of the ball faster than that, so I can't see a bullet, right?

SPEAKER_01 59:38

Right?

SPEAKER_00 59:38

You can't see a bullet, it's moving too fast. Yeah, right. And so you don't see a bullet go by, you can't see it. So if you could hit the balls that fast, that is the limp, that is the outer, that is the extreme limit, right?

SPEAKER_02 59:49

I think the game's in good shape. I'm not I don't have a personal concern about it, but I do think paddle technology is something that we need to get our hand on at some point, make sure it doesn't get to that point that you're that you're gonna be able to do.

SPEAKER_00 59:57

I'm thinking, see, my part of my thing is the health and safety thing.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:00

Yeah, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:01

Yeah. I just got an email from uh the collegiate college thing down in the United States because they're working hard to develop getting kids in school teams, you know, at like 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 30, 40, 15, right, to develop them for so for so when they go to university, the college there go to university, they play on a college pickleball team, which they're you know, they're big on developing the states. We're probably way behind here on on that, right? But I look at it as I'm thinking for health and safety, right? Got a kid's not wearing goggles, you're hitting the ball at like net height, and the kids not much taller and that. I've been hit in the face many, many times. And if I didn't wear safety gear, I would be sitting here blind having this conversation. 100%.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:43

I'm a huge fan of eye protection, Brian. And that could be a podcast, a standalone podcast on eye protection. Who's responsible for that? Is should it be dealt with at a club level at Pickleball Ontario, Pickleball Canada, Global Pickleball Federation? I spoke to the president of that organization um yesterday morning. You know, where does that land? And that and again, that's a whole different conversation, but it's something to think about. All right, final question. I I'm watching the clock. I respect your time.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:07

Um I've got I've got good time. Though we're down here in this dungeon, I have to have no idea what's I feel like I'm in a casino. It's my it's my I just keep pushing chips into the middle, and so far I'm winning. But uh, any any minute now, it's gonna go bad, and some two big guys are gonna show up and go, Mr. Ken, you need to leave.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:24

It's my mom's basement. That's really where we are. You just haven't met mom yet, so it's really where we are. Well, listen, we're gonna connect all of your contact points in the show notes for this. Um, was there any closing comments or anything we didn't touch on today that you really were hoping we could have a chat about? Because this has been enlightening. And um, I want to talk to you at some point. We've had an off-camera conversation, but part of what I'd like to do with the podcast is also talk to you about possibly creating some 60 seconds to success coaching tips at some point. And we'll I'll be in for that. Yeah, we'll talk about that. Just ways for people to maybe dive in very quickly in a video short and and maybe get a quick point from the baseline or things like that. And so I'd I'd like to talk to you about that another time. And I'd love to have you back at some point. I'd love to follow what you're doing in coaching and your game. And and uh so if you can do me a favor and you know accept a uh future invitation, I'd love that because today's been great. Today's been great. I knew you were gonna be a great guest. So yeah. So anything else? Any closing thoughts?

SPEAKER_00 1:02:15

Uh just have fun, have fun and get out there on the courts and and and play and take a take a take a lesson from somebody, don't care who, but you you'd be surprised lessons are good. Yeah, keep your paddles up, yeah, and uh bend your knees. And have have don't forget the reason you're there. It's like you're why you originally got have the have a beginner mind, right? Yeah, there's always one more rung to climb on the ladder and and and and enjoy the game, enjoy the people, enjoy the people you've met. Don't forget, don't, don't lose sight of the that's been my problem. Sometimes I can get the blinkers on and I'm looking three, you know, three miles down the road and forgetting all the nice, wonderful people, fantastic people I've met, and and you know, the fantastic people I'm going to meet yet, that I have yet to meet, right? You know, uh playing pickleball. And I'm so fortunate that I've that I found it when I when I did.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:08

Um, and that I'm got an obsessive personality to try to improve, you know, to be to be better, and that I can play as well as I can and I'm healthy, knock on wood at my age. And uh, you know, considering what happened in my uh in my past, I'm just happy to be every day get up and be able to go, oh, I can play today somewhere.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:27

Yeah, good for you. Well, great thoughts, Brian. Listen, I've enjoyed getting to know you. You're one of the first people I met, and I say this very genuinely to you. I really appreciate all you did to help me. Um, you were there for me from the get-go, and and you you were on my short list of people that really helped me get into the game. And uh I miss playing with you. I haven't played, I haven't been on court with you in a long time. So maybe we're gonna have to make that happen sooner than later. Let's go get back out there. And of course, I'll be worried about the coaching side of you now, watching everything I'm doing and doing wrong. But yeah, we'll talk about that.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:54

So I went through that as a coach phase, too.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:56

Did you?

SPEAKER_00 1:03:56

Yeah, don't. I'm not here to tell in any unless the person specifically asks me for a tip, whatever. I'm not saying a word to anybody, if at all possible. I'm gonna do the best to you know, bite my tongue.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:08

That's good.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:09

Not everybody wants advice.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:10

No, sure.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:11

So fine. You want it? Pay me.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:13

Sign up. Yeah, yes, go on my calendar. Yeah. Well, thanks for this, Brian. It's been great, and thanks for all you do for the game. Keep doing it and keep being a passionate player. I love it.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:21

I love all the people that are meeting, they're fantastic people, and there's lots of people out there, you know, trying to do advance, make pickleball greater, or expand the range of pickleball, get it in front of more people, or they're just, you know, like you were mentioning, Pam, just the diligence of day in and day out, you know, making sure that, you know, the club is, you know, where we play at is, you know, taken care of and things are running and and all that. And it's just lots of unsung heroes out there that are, you know, making sure the places are, you know, the places are running, things that keep going.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:56

Well, like somebody said, somebody's got to put the key in the door.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:59

We always said that with our business, you know, the first guy on the door was a pretty important person because they put the key in the door and turned the lights on. And so let's keep the lights on for pickleball.