Hit and Giggle! Pickleball’s Ken Pecarski

🏓 What happens when one of the nicest people in pickleball becomes one of its most respected coaches?

In this episode of Kitchen Conversations, I sit down with my good friend Ken Pecarski—coach with Taylored Pickleball Academy and Pickleplex Barrie, passionate ambassador for the sport, and someone who truly lives by one simple philosophy:

"Hit and Giggle."

Ken's journey into pickleball began almost by accident when his wife signed him up for a beginner lesson without telling him. A few years later, he's helping thousands of players discover why this sport has become one of the fastest-growing communities in the world.

This isn't just another conversation about dinks, drives, and drops.

It's about...

🏓 Why every player deserves to feel welcome on the court

🏓 How the right coach can completely change your pickleball journey

🏓 Why fun—not winning—is the secret to long-term improvement

🏓 The incredible friendships created through this sport

🏓 Why recreational pickleball should never lose its spirit

🏓 The "Hit and Giggle" philosophy that has inspired players across Canada

Ken also shares the story behind joining Taylored Pickleball Academy, how he became one of Canada's most sought-after coaches, and why the Academy has become one of the premier destinations for coaching, camps, and pickleball vacations.

If you've ever wondered whether coaching is worth it... or whether pickleball can genuinely change your life... this conversation is for you.

Learn More About Taylored Pickleball Academy

🌐 Website

https://www.tayloredpickleballacademy.ca

📘 Facebook

https://www.facebook.com/tayloredpickleballacademy

📸 Instagram

https://www.instagram.com/tayloredpickleballacademy

Whether you're looking for beginner lessons, high-performance camps, Canadian "Campcations," or unforgettable international pickleball vacations, Taylored Pickleball Academy offers world-class coaching experiences for players of every level.

Pickleplex Barrie: https://pickleplex.ca/locations/barrie/

If you enjoyed this episode:

👍 Like the video

💬 Leave a comment and tell us your favorite takeaway.

🔔 Subscribe to Kitchen Conversations for more inspiring conversations with the people growing racquet sports across Canada.

Kitchen Conversations is about more than pickleball.

It's about the people behind the game.

Their stories.

Their journeys.

And the communities they're building—one rally at a time.

#KitchenConversations #KenPicarski #TayloredPickleballAcademy #Pickleball #PickleballCanada #PickleballCoaching #HitAndGiggle #PickleballCommunity #PickleballLife #LearnPickleball #DinkResponsibly #PickleballVacation

And that wraps up this episode of Kitchen Conversations.

If you enjoyed the conversation, be sure to follow the show, leave a review, and share it with someone who loves the game as much as you do.

And if you want the full experience, including the visuals, head over to YouTube and watch the episode at

https://www.youtube.com/@KitchenConversationspodcast

Or search Kitchen Conversations Pickleball Podcast

That’s where these stories really come to life.

You’ll also find links and show notes in the episode description.

Until next time…

more than dinks, drops and drives…

these are stories from behind the paddle.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Hi, welcome to the podcast. Welcome to Kitchen Conversations. I am excited about this episode because I get to sit down and talk to one of my favorite pickleball players and a buddy of mine, Ken Pakarski. Ken and I first met in Kingston at the Kingston Pickleball Club during a true North team event challenge. And the moment I saw Ken, I thought to myself, does that guy ever look like Will Farrell? We'll talk about that moment, how we connected, and his thoughts on coaching, the game, and the importance of keeping it fun. Ken has a saying called hit and giggle. And you'll learn what he means by that in today's episode of Kitchen Conversations. Well, Ken, welcome to Kitchen Conversations. Welcome to my podcast, my friend. And uh and thank you for being here. I've been both anxious and excited about today and uh excited because uh anytime I get a chance to chat with you, it's a pleasure. Uh, anxious and somewhat apprehensive though, because this could come off the rails at any second. You put the two of us on a pickleball court or a podcast, and it I mean, it could literally go anywhere. So anyway, I appreciate you being here. Thank you for doing this.

SPEAKER_00 1:07

No problem. I appreciate you asking me to be part of this.

SPEAKER_01 1:11

Yeah, well, it's been fun. A little idea I kicked off in January, and I've been kind of toiling away at it and having a bit of fun. And uh yeah, it's been it's been really interesting. But I said to my wife uh today, you know, I'm excited to sit and chat with you. And uh, she was asking me if I remember kind of how you and I had connected, and and I'll never forget uh that moment. It was at a true north pickleball tournament event, uh team event in Kingston at the Kingston Pickleball Club. And when I first sort of saw you across the court, I thought, boy, that guy has a slight resemblance to that actor, Will Farrell. So I sauntered on over and said, Hey, I'm Mike, and uh Well, you were the only the second guy that has ever said that.

SPEAKER_00 1:51

And then after you said it, really, I've probably heard it 50 more times. See, I started a trend. Yes, you did.

SPEAKER_01 1:58

I started something with it. I love it. But the reason I was intrigued by that is because I had a situation on a cruise ship uh several years ago where I was up early. I'm a I'm a super early morning guy. I love getting up early and tracking down coffee, especially on vacation. And uh I'm wandering through the cruise ship one morning and there's not a lot of people, but I see this other guy coming and he's heading towards me and he's looking at me in a way that you know it's not just gonna be a good morning. You know, there's more coming than just hi, how are you? So he kind of stops and he says to me, I gotta, I hate to bother you, but I've got to tell you, I just loved you in that movie. And of course, this is too good for me to let go. So I say, Oh yeah, which um which movie are you are you thinking about? And he goes, Well, Ferris Bieler's Day Off, of course. So I'm I'm a little miffed because I know it's not, you know, I know it's not Ferris he thinks I look like. So back to the room I go and on the computer. Yeah, and you know, sure enough, it's Alan Ruck's character, the kid that was in the Detroit Red Wings hockey jersey. And I don't want to look a thing like him. So I I was that was not a good day for me. I thought this guy actually thinks I look like that. I didn't want to throw that. But so anyhow, I think you came, yeah, you came up on the far better end of the stick on that one. If people think you resemble Will Farrell, I'd take that any day over at least how Alan Ruck appeared in that movie. But uh yeah, we made that connection, had a bit of a chat. And then the other part of that day that I'll never forget, and this uh, you know, the risk of embarrassing you is what I love so much about you. It's your spirit and your character. And you've been such a great ambassador uh for the game of pickleball and an advocate for the game. And uh, you know, you asked me to come out on the court with you and a couple other four O's, maybe four fives, to kind of just play a, you know, a game in between, you know, matches. I think it might have been the lunch hour and we had a couple of free courts. So, you know, you dragged me out there with you. I had no business being out there as a 3-0 player at that point in my life, but what a game and what an experience for me to be able to step on the court with you and those other players. And my recollection of that is we actually came out on top of that game. Somehow you and I scrapped together a little bit of a win uh in that moment. And uh I think I enjoyed that more than I enjoyed the whole tournament. It was it was really funny.

SPEAKER_00 3:57

And I actually picked you because I I needed to look better than at least one of the players on the court.

SPEAKER_01 4:02

So well, problem solved. Yeah, you can always count on me to be that guy. Yeah, if you want to be the best looking guy in a room, take me with you. That's that's a cute quote. So, yeah, so listen, on a serious note, you and I have known each other for a bit. We we don't get to see each other much, but we do uh connect every so often through text and uh you know, sharing some pictures, which uh which of course are going to become part of this podcast at the edit point. So you're not gonna escape-be interesting. Yeah, you're not gonna escape those. But it's the game of pickleball, Ken. Without it, we don't know each other. You know, it's what I love about the game. Yeah, just love the game and the people that we get to meet through it. So, and if you don't mind, I like to break things down in the podcast into what I call three separate rallies. And in rally number one, I'd love to hear a bit about your sports background, maybe some of the other sports that you played, you know, coming up through high school and uh kind of what led you to where you are today. I'd love to hear that story. And then I'd love to jump into rally two and talk about this crazy game of pickleball and what it is that you and I and so many people around the world are falling in love with. And then in rally three, I'd love to chat a bit about your coaching, your coaching background, what you're currently doing with Tailored Pickleball Academy, and maybe Ken, if you don't mind, a bit of your coaching philosophy. And so we can maybe wrap the conversation up uh in rally three with that kind of chat, if you don't mind.

SPEAKER_00 5:20

My sports background, I was never great at anything, but I was always, and not to toot my own horn, but I was good at everything. Not great at one thing, but either by mimicking or just some kind of I've got a little bit of athletic ability. So um I played hockey for the longest time, probably, you know, high high recreational hockey, let's call it, until my late 40s. And then of course the 20-year-olds would join the league who still thought there was NHL Scouts. Well, not so much that, but you know, you go behind the net. I was a defenseman, so you go behind the net, and I get this 250-pound 20-year-old just putting me up against the boards, and I I do the Charlie Brown crumple, and I I'd get up and I go, buddy, I gotta go to work tomorrow. You know, anyway. Easy, easy, easy. Um, but the sport that I really fell in love with, which is where or how I'm gonna get into the pickleball, was racquetball. Um, I played almost 30 years, I'm gonna say competitive, because you can play recreational anything, but you can play competitive. I was an above-average uh racquetball player, and I just fell in love with that game. Then I kind of picked up a small injury in my ankle where the doctor basically said, that's stopping and starting and diving and all that. You might want to do something different. So believe it or not, I got into marathon cycling. And I I entered a few races, um, some as long as 200K. Um yeah, so I I did that for a while and just you know, just continued to my my biggest my lovely bride now says, like, you just take one thing and you just go, go, go. Why don't you just yeah, and I go, well, that's just that's my personality. Uh I try and get to the level of where I can be as best as I can be. And you know, I know I'm now there in pickleball. The only way I'm gonna get better in pickleball is to get younger, and nobody's given me that formula yet. So I'm quite happy at the level that I am at in pickleball now. But the funny story on how I got into pickleball was um in 2019, so just before COVID hit, we had moved from Oakville up to a little town outside of Aurelia. So I'm in the neighborhood and I'm walking my dogs, and I meet this lady, and we're chit-chatting, you know, welcome to the neighborhood, what's your dog's name? Blah, blah, blah, blah. And all of a sudden she does one of these. She goes, I'm not being rude, but I gotta go play pickleball. And I'm going, what the freak is pickleball? So I get I get home, I get home and I say to my lovely bride, um, can you just look up pickleball? And so the first video, and I like hand to God, the the the first video that comes up are four 90-year-old gentlemen. And and it's you know, it's like plink, plink, plink, and I'm going, no, not for me, you know, nope, not not my not my game. So unbeknownst to me, uh, my lovely bride, who I shall name now, Donna, signs me up unbeknownst to me. Seniors, seniors learn to play at the community center. So I said, okay, I'll go. And it was funny that um I think there was about 16 of us. And of course, you know, the first question is, who's played pickleball? And no, uh, who's got some paddle or racket? I put my hand up and so he said, Okay, you ate over there, and I was like, With you know, all the ladies, which I have no problem with. And then there was, um, I guess they had played a couple of games. But honestly, Mike, within 15 minutes, I knew there was different levels of the way you could play this game, depending upon what your interests were. I like to call, you know, even when I teach beginners now, I like to call it, you know, you can be a hit and giggle player. You know, hit the ball, get it over 10 times in a row, and you all jump up and down, you're happy, and then you all go out for a glass of wine. Uh and then you've got your, you know, semi-competitive, and then you've got your, you know, the ones that pick this game up and just take it and and just work at it.

SPEAKER_01 10:20

You know, I think, you know, it's funny, Ken, when you talk about um sports as well. Like I didn't do a lot of sports as a kid, I had a bit of a weight problem. Grade eight, I wore, this will shock you, a pair of 44-inch husky jeans to grade eight. I was fly, yeah, I weighed 220 pounds. I was five foot nothing. Uh, I'm I'm 6'2 now and about 160 pounds soaking wet. So, you know, I I went through it all. I changed, but I'll tell you, I just didn't get a chance as a kid to play a lot of sports. And so, you know, pickleball, like many things that I started doing later in life when I lost the weight and had a little confidence and built up a little bit of, you know, enthusiasm for wanting to get out there and do that sort of thing. Uh, it all comes, it's I always say it's forced. Everything I do in sport, whether it's golf, whether it was a little bit of pickup hockey, and and now the game I love so much in pickleball, it's really a grind for me to get there. I have to really, really work at it. So interesting to hear your story, how you kind of got into the game. And uh, but that video, I mean, that good on you for at least, good on her, good on Donna for signing you up. Because without that, we're probably not talking today. So I'll thank her later. But uh yeah, good on her for having the courage to say, you're going to pickleball to give it a try. And good on you for agreeing to be.

SPEAKER_00 11:26

Well, she knew that so it she knew that I have to be doing something. And what I think what her biggest fear was that I would start working again. And I have I'm that type of personality that when I when I work, I just I overdo it. And um her when actually, because when we actually moved to Aurelia, she said, you are not telling anybody what you did as a job because I do not need you working on people's houses, I don't need you building fences, I don't need you building decks. Uh, you know, so but you have to do something. So yeah, good on good on her because and it's funny because she only recently retired uh uh two years ago this July, and she's now a pickleball fanatic. She's she's taken the game up, and um so it's now something that we have friends in common. We have something that I'll I'll jump on the court with her and her friends and have just as much fun as if I the odd time I get to jump on courts with people that are like literally five dot o's. I'm not naive enough to say that they're trying their hardest, but at least I'm not embarrassing myself.

SPEAKER_01 12:51

Yeah, 100%. And look at the fun you must have had moving to that small town. Donna says, Don't tell anybody what you did. In fact, in fact, Ken, let's tell them we're in the witness protection program. And that's all we can tell them, right? We're doing imagine the fun we can have. Yeah, it takes me back to that encounter on the cruise ship that morning where, and of course, that story got better as the week went on because as Buddy was coming along with his wife all week, he would kind of look at me and give me the old, you know, hey, hey. I never told him. I I went along with it. Even though I wasn't happy with who he thought I looked like, I just let it ride the whole week. I'm my wife says you got to tell him. I said, I'm not telling him anything. He wants to think I'm a movie guy, you know, all the power to him. So we're kind of in rally two now. We kind of segued into that, which is great. But tell me kind of where pickleball sits for you today as a player. We'll leave the coaching aside for a couple of minutes. We'll get to that in a second. But tell me a bit about you as a player. And are you doing singles, doubles, tournament play? Do you still do some social stuff? What when you're not coaching and you're just out to have fun with your guys and your buddies and and your wife and their friends, what uh where do you plug into the game today?

SPEAKER_00 13:55

Um, well, I plug into the game where if if it doesn't matter what level, um, and I'm fortunate enough that sometimes I get asked at a higher level. But it's interesting that I've had a few comments. I'll have beginners, I'll be walking by a court and they'll go, Will you will you play with us? We're sure. And I will. Whereas, and I I don't want to say it's a wrong thing for the people that don't want to do it, but I mean pe people will walk by and go, Why are you playing with them? And I go, Because they asked me to. A lot of pe a lot of people know Tozer. And I remember when I was first starting a two-court facility at a hockey rink, they put two courts on a parquet floor in the meeting rooms, right? Where they shuffleboard or bridge or cribbage or whatever. And the courts actually, the two baselines were angled so that literally during a couple of rallies, you could be just about to hit the person on the other court. Neither here nor there with that story. But Akos Tozer was one of those guys that he, when I first met him, I don't want to use numbers. I I'm not a big fan of 3.0, 3.5, 4.0, but he he was a higher level player. And I remember um, I think it was like a Wednesday evening, the higher level players played. And I came up to him one day and I just said, Can I come out and watch you guys play? He said, you know, never mind watching, bring your stuff. And that right there, I said, I want to be that welcoming to other players. And it was funny because uh to kind of segue backwards, when uh when I first started playing true beginner pickleball, there was a gentleman that was kind of running this thing, and it was funny because at the time they only had pickleball two days a week, Wednesdays and Fridays, and like literally I'm just shaking on Monday and Tuesday going, Wednesday I'm gonna play pickleball, you know. But anyway, um I get to go. So they would have the beginner session from 10 to 12, and then they had the intermediate session from 12 to 2. And the first, I guess I was playing for about maybe a month, and I said to uh and I actually asked him yesterday if I could use his name on air. So uh Robin Eddington. I I went up to him and I said, Robin, do you think I could um play in the next session? And he looked at me and he said, Not unless you want your fire trucking bleep bleep bleep handed to you. So I said, Okay. Wow. I went to the front, I went to the front desk, I paid my five bucks because he couldn't say, No, you can't, right? He did he did not and uh again, coincidentally, the first match that we got matched up in the little play was against him. And of course we we we came out on the winning end, and it took everything for me to bite the inside of my cheek to kind of give that back to him, and now he is the director of pickleball at the club where I am in quotation marks, the club pro. And we tell that story a lot of times, and we laugh about that, but we've become the best of friends. It's kind of like me and you, except I see him weekly and I talk to you monthly, maybe. But yeah, so just again, it was that one guy just saying, get out here, you know. And and so when when when sorry, when the people come to me, I go, Yeah, I'll play, no problem.

SPEAKER_01 18:08

Absolutely, Ken. You know, it's it's I'm so glad you went there today. I was gonna try to draw you into that conversation because I I'm aware of your commitment to that. And uh we've spoken about it kind of casually in the past. So I was definitely hoping to get there and thank you for doing that for me. But you know, if I have a pickleball pain point, that would be it. It would be that as players level up through this wonderful game, that they sometimes forget that they too met a lady walking their dog one day who said, Come try pickleball. They had their first game. They they whiffed their first ball, they lost 11-0. You know, they won 11-0. I mean, we've all been through that. It's a process and it's unavoidable. And yes, some of us, perhaps with a stronger racket background, move up the skill set quicker. You know, we climb that ladder a bit quicker. But, you know, it, it, it really bothers me. And it's a point of content. I just don't like it when I see better players. And I'm with you on not labeling three O's, three five, so on and so forth. But we've got to remember, Ken, if we're gonna grow the sport and the integrity of it and the legacy of it, and we have a role to play in that as players, we've got to remember that we were that player one day. And I mentioned right out of the gate the thrill that I had that day at the True North event, the team event, when you, well, there's Mowgli. When you brought me into that game, you know, and you allowed me to come in on that court and invited me with open arms. And uh yeah, I I wish more players would do what you do. I really do. And I applaud you for doing that. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 19:34

Yeah, no, uh, for for me, again, it's just that that's my passion about the game, is um when people or students say, I'm in this game because of you. And it's funny, there's a group of ladies at the my home club I play out of uh Piccoleplex and Barry. Shout out to Pickleplex and Barry. Um, there's a group of about seven ladies that they they they were in my learn to play classes maybe two years ago. And every time I see them, they just shake their fist at me and go, It's you that got us addicted to this game. And I go, it's all my fault. And I just laugh and say, Hey, that's a compliment, you know. So it is funny because my my opening line to whenever I teach, learn to play is always welcome to the first day of the addiction for the rest of your life. And they all like kind of like, what, what? And then like four weeks later, they're going, what kind of paddle should I have? Like, what what like what shoes should I be buying? Um, where can I get into leagues? Where can I do this? And I'm going, okay, you're hooked. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:51

Yeah. I love it. I love it. Well, listen, that's all terrific stuff. I love all of that. Let's wrap up rally two. Just give me a bit more uh info and uh go a little deeper on what you're doing today as far as a player. You do a lot of tournaments. I know you participate in a lot of different tournaments, but where where do you kind of plug into the game today, Ken?

SPEAKER_00 21:07

I I legitimately right now, I plug myself in as um uh a above average, advanced, maybe recreational player. Um, unfortunately, I'm dealing with a knee issue, which tournaments um because of the gap between games, my knee basically says, okay, you can play the first game, but if you're gonna play wait 30 minutes or 25 minutes, and sometimes even longer, depending on how many entries are in a tournament, then my knee basically just says, Um, you did not do uh your half hour warm up, you your drugs are wearing off. And you know, it's not an excuse, but it's it's it definitely does hamper me. So for me, just to play private. And set up games both lower levels because I don't care personally, I don't care what level you are and what level your opponents are. If you are the best player on the court, you can still work on stuff and try and then bring that into your own level. Um, the ones that, you know, especially in organized events where you know they could they've got that range of people self-rating themselves, some higher, some lower. And, you know, um whether you're male or female, and you get two people on the other side of the net looking, oh, these guys are way below us. Let's just crush them 11-0 and get out of here, versus, hey, why don't we keep these guys alive in the rally and see what we can work on on our second shot, our third shot, our fourth shot. It's funny because every once in a while I will play with my lovely bride, her girlfriends, and some of their husbands. And not that I'm that much better, but I'm enough that I can move the ball around. And they look at me, go, why didn't you finish that rally? I go, because I'm having too much fun watching you guys run back and I don't want it to end.

SPEAKER_01 23:25

I'm I'm having it's all about me at this point. I'm enjoying myself.

SPEAKER_00 23:28

So so I I did uh until um my my knee has only really been an issue for the last uh couple of years. So yeah, I was big into play, like I followed uh you know the the tournaments all over the place. Uh I did compete in the US Open once. Uh that was an experien that was an experience. Um just to watch and then be on not playing on center court, but uh walking into center court and watching the pros play and looking at my partner at the time going, we thought we played pickleball, that is a different game altogether. So right now, my my biggest I think um let's see how I want to say this. My biggest pet peeve is being on a court with someone that wants to either crush their opponent or just makes their partner feel uneasy. I just love playing the game, whether it's mixed doubles, men's doubles. Um yeah, uh I just love the game. I do not play singles. I personally think that singles is a young person's game. Now, mind you, they um, you know, they're trying it out in three tournaments uh down in the States uh with the new sidelines for singles court. Uh if they ever did bring in um ski uh I guess mini singles is the technical name for it now. If they ever brought that in as an event, I would probably do that because that's more uh strategy, more um finesse than just lack of a better word, playing pickleball or sorry, playing tennis with a pickleball on a pickleball court. But yeah. So basically just on a court five, six days a week, either teaching or playing recreational, other than I shout out to Kingston and that that team challenge, I never miss one of those because that is all about fun. Uh the amount of people that I, you know, have made really good friends there. I keep in touch with them, but uh I love that event so much.

SPEAKER_01 25:50

Yeah, it's great, isn't it? It's so well run, it's so well done. And for anyone that has not done that event, they need to. I mean, if you can find a way to get in, because it's it fills up in a hurry, but it's uh it's a different way of enjoying the game. And it brings everybody together and you're kind of rallying around one another in the three-os, or you know, because they do rank people in that particular term. You know, everybody's encouraging everybody that weekend is just terrific. So you've made some incredible points there, and thank you. I knew you would. I knew this would be a great conversation. And I love what you're saying about the game, Ken, and about those sort of those players that just don't seem to get the fact that you can find some value and some benefit no matter what the skill levels are on this side of the net versus that side of the net. And it drew me back to I thought about something as you were talking, and it was a piece of advice that was given to me probably within the first four or five months of playing the game. One of the more seasoned players here at the club in Kingston said, you know, Mike, I'll tell you something. Nobody likes winning 11-0 and nobody likes losing 11-0. And the message in that was, you know, direct but indirect. And what this person was basically saying is if you find yourself in a situation where you are losing 11-0, you know, trust me, it's not good. But you, it's almost worse to be winning 11-0, Ken, because you know, you can control that a little bit. If you're the person that's, you know, able to let that rally go a little longer, maybe work on that third shot drop, try to work on a reset. Um, and I thought it was sound advice, and it's something that has stuck with me to this day. So, you know, to hear you kind of echo that, uh, it's kind of refreshing.

SPEAKER_00 27:19

100%. And I've been on the other side of that 10-0. And when they're about to serve, I just remind them you have to still win by two. Right. Just so you know. Just so you know. And they look at me as if I've got two heads. I go, I'm not giving up. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:35

No, no, my favorite line is four, four, one, we're winning. You know, like, yeah, it's four. What do you mean it's four, four? I said, don't worry, we're about to win. So yeah, uh, it's such it's such a great game. But you know, Ken, listen, like anything in life, we will eventually run into the odd person. And I'd like to think in pickleball it is the odd person. It just doesn't seem to quite get that. And we just have to manage that. I mean, it's the way the world is. And, you know, you you encounter certain people at certain times in your journey through pickleball that you kind of sit there and shake your head. And and it really is, you know, at that point, targeting the less experienced players, generally how that game goes. They recognize that, you know, me or my partner or you know, one of us are the weaker of the two players. And so in a social play, they're just throwing everything that way. And I'm like, you know, how much fun are you really having across the net? It's Tuesday morning, it's 9:15. Like, I the only ball I've hit is my serve. No, or or you know, it makes no sense.

SPEAKER_00 28:27

No, and I get that. And and the key there, what you just said, Mike, is recreational ball versus tournament play. And I get it. It in tournament play, you have to figure out, you know, where the weaknesses are. Um, because you know, you've paid your money to enter a tournament. You, you know, you want the shiny metal or the you know, uh, the the beer mug or the coffee cup. But in recreational play is the again, um I like to tell my students recreational play is a great opportunity to get better at the game, right? Um when you're playing tournaments, you're not actually trying to get better, you're super concentrating on trying to win. And I get that. So if you have to hit to what we deem the weakest player, and whether it's you know, uh same gender or mixed doubles, and hey, I learned my lesson in one of my very first tournaments when when we started hitting to the female player, and after about four rallies, I just looked at my mixed doubles partner and said, She's not seeing another ball, hit it to him, you know. So right, right. She she is not she's the problem now. We uh leave her alone. Stereotype that, but that's you know, in a lot of cases doubles. That's how it does get stereotyped. And I literally just learned it in four rallies going, there is no way she is seeing another ball.

SPEAKER_01 29:56

But anyway, yeah, but you know, we could talk Ken all afternoon about what what it is about the game that's so appealing, and that is one of the aspects of the game that is so appealing. It's an equalizer, it doesn't matter. High, short, you know, tall, you know, physicality doesn't necessarily play into it. I mean, I've come up against some people in gameplay where you know I've looked across the net and and maybe you know that person definitely kind of maybe needs a hip because you can tell. And that doesn't matter. It just, you know, it doesn't matter. The game has a way if you're strategic and you're thinking your way through your rallies. I mean, it can uh it can be a great uh great equalizer. I love that about the game.

SPEAKER_00 30:32

I like to say in this game, it is the one game where you can use the phrase you cannot judge a book by its cover. Right by its cover, absolutely. I've I've looked at opponents that are younger than me and much better fitness, but have no uh strategic sort of strategy to their game. And then I've looked at some that I go, oh, we just have to hit and all of a sudden I'm just picking up the ball, going, nice, nice rally, guys. Nice rally. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:01

Yeah, nice meeting you. What happened? See you on the podium. Yeah, enjoy the your enjoy your ride to the podium. Yeah, absolutely. Well, listen, that's all great. Obviously, Ken, you're you love the game, and I love the game, and the people listening to this podcast, I'm gonna assume, love the game. And if they don't, I'd like to encourage them to try it and become addicted and love the game because uh it will change your life. This is a game that can be a life changer on the social side.

SPEAKER_00 31:23

It really does uh you know, is a game changer. So if I if I use a number, if I if I again if I've played a hundred serious matches, like tournament wise, I'm gonna say I might have run into Mr. and Mrs. Grumpy Pants maybe twice.

SPEAKER_01 31:39

Yeah, no, I just love it. Well, that's great. Well, listen, let's jump into rally three. I'm watching the clock. I don't want to steal, steal your entire long weekend. I'll take a bit of it, but uh tell me about where you are with coaching today. Uh, you know, where does that fit into your life and how long have you been working with uh with the Tailored Pickleball Academy? And tell me a bit about that story, and then let's get into a little bit of your coaching. You've touched briefly on it, some of the philosophy that you bring to the beginners' classes, but I'd love to just get your sense of coaching and the important role that it plays and you know getting people off on the right foot in this game that we love so much.

SPEAKER_00 32:10

Um, well, basically, so in 20, I want to say 2021, um, I had a lady approach me um asking me if I wanted to play in a tournament. And I said, sure, I'd love to play in a tournament. She says, but we're gonna go take a lesson first. And I went, okay, I can do that. So we ended up taking a lesson from a gentleman by the name of Cam Taylor, Tailored Pickleball. And at the time, Tailored Pickleball was just a one-man operation. And myself and her, we worked with Cam, I'm gonna say probably for about, you know, four months. We were taking lessons on a regular basis. And actually, myself and her, we quit playing the game for about four months. But we drilled every day for about two hours because I had access. Um, the the gentleman that uh talked about telling me I was not going to be a good pickleball player. Um, I he actually, him and his daughter at the time was the general manager of the facility, just opened up the club to us and we drilled literally every day for three to four months, sometimes up to four hours. And we just worked, we would just work on one shot so that you know by the time that came into our play, it we had the muscle memory. Uh sidebar to that, we entered our first tournament in Ottawa, and we came second. And again, but that was more about I think I had my partner laughing so hard she couldn't play.

SPEAKER_01 33:53

Yeah, that's a strategy. I don't think there's a rule against it. Yeah, humor is allowed, humor is allowed.

SPEAKER_00 33:58

So um then um I I progressed my game to where I was, you know, an average player, but I understood the nuances of uh of the game. And I should just backtrack is uh for a year and a half in Bell Canada, I was an instructor on teaching installers how to install telephone systems, so I had a bit of an instructor type personality. So the uh Aurelia Pickle or ODAS Pickleball Club in Aurelia, he approached me and said, Would you mind teaching beginners? And I said, I'm not a teacher, but I can try. And we probably ran 150 people through in the first couple of months, just getting them, but they all walked away saying they were having fun. And that's that's I had to make the game fun for them. Um, some of it through physicality and some of it through my chitter chatter. And then uh once I started playing, I decided to take more lessons. And one day Cam just said, you know, you've got that type of personality, and um you are good enough that if you go get your certification to teach, I'll give you a job. And I I did, and for I'm gonna say the first couple of years that I was with them, there was just basically four of us, and we went everywhere. East Coast trips, um uh, you know, Sudbury one day, down to London the next day. Um loved it because sure the travel was hard, um, the hours were a little bit difficult sometimes, but the people were so appreciative, you know. Um what when you and again, toot my own horn, at the end of a one and a half hour, learn to play, and they stand up and they give you an applause, that was better than the pay. Don't tell Cam because I still want to get paid. No, I won't say a word. But yeah, so it just progressed to there. So um first and foremost, my teaching philosophy is if you're not having fun, this game is not for you. If you're if you're throwing your paddle after a rally or you're you know kicking the ball, um, you know, uh it's because this is a game that other than playing singles, is there's four people on the court, and and a bad attitude can ruin the game for the other three people. So my uh again, if I always say in a tournament, my goal is to make every team on the other side chuckle once, and then I've done my job. And if I can play some good ball in between, I'm a happy camper. My coaching philosophy is I like to say, uh, and again, uh everybody's different. Uh, I actually took lessons from two other people while I was taking them from cam, just because you can pick little things that you know work for you from this one person, the way they explain it or demonstrate it. So I like to say that my coaching philosophy is whatever level you're at, I just want to get you to the next level. I think there's a lot of coaches out there, and we may I may get feedback from this, is they'll take a you know, a 3.0 player and they teach them as if they're gonna be a 5.0. And I go, you can't do that. You gotta get them, you gotta get them to 3.25 first, and then 3.5, and so on and so on. And steps, baby steps, baby steps. You know, exactly. Um I've had people, you know, they they come to our classes and they write everything down, and I'm going, okay, that that's good that you write everything down, but please don't go out into your recreational play and try and put all 12 of the things that you just because it's never gonna work. Pick two. You know, start with your serve. Once you, you know, once you are comfortable with that one stroke, then let's work on our return and just build the game that way instead of going, well, you know, I I love this comment. Well, I watch the pros on TV and I go, okay, yeah. Well, first of all, you're not 22. You know, you guys, I'm pretty sure do because you know, generally the the demographics of our students are retirees, seniors, you know, you get the you get the odd maybe 25, but it's definitely above 50 in my mind. And I go, these kids that you're watching on TV these days, you know, have reflexes like pumas. So I'm gonna try and teach you how to have reflexes like a senior citizen, so that, you know, because um you'll enjoy the game more by getting better in smaller increments than going, oh my god, I've watched this and I'm never gonna get this. And and they, you know, and then they just get frustrated. I I don't know if they would give up the game because if you love pickleball, you're not giving it up.

SPEAKER_01 39:42

I love all that. But you know what, to your point, let me pick up on something you said because I mentioned this in a previous podcast, Ken. And I had a I took some coaching a few years ago. And, you know, this person is an excellent coach and an excellent player. And I take nothing away from him in that regard, but you know, he spent most of the time that we had together, you know, kind of hitting me in the shoulder and hitting me in the forehead and a couple balls in the chest, and and then, you know, sort of spent the rest of the time telling me not what I was maybe doing right and things that I could build on, but but pointing out all the things I was doing wrong. And I remember coming home to Fran, and to your point about quitting the game, I gave it some thought. I really did in that moment because I came home really feeling kind of, you know, like wow, I'm doing a lot. Like I'm not doing anything right. I'm not gonna figure this out. And so I think that relationship with a coach uh is critical. And I think that the importance of the coach understanding that for someone, especially coming into the game, of not pushing them too hard, encouraging the positive stuff that they are doing, and you know, kind of sandwiching it together. You know, I like that sandwiching coaching philosophy where you say, you know what, you know, you're doing this really well. You know, you might want to think a little bit about bending your knees a bit more. But boy, when, you know, once you do that, the results are amazing. And I think, you know, you've got to encourage, especially new players, to realize that, you know, there is some hope here. And so I'm so thankful I stuck with the game. But that experience, uh, and this is a great player. Don't get me wrong, he's a respected part of the pickleball community, great coach, great guy. But, you know, he and I just didn't correct in that particular session. And that's okay too. And so, you know, the reason I want to go down that rabbit hole with you today is anyone listening that may have tried a coaching session that didn't go well, I would encourage them to try another one. One 100%. I'd hate to see somebody get to a point, Ken, where they just happen to not be in the maybe they weren't in the right frame of mind. Maybe the coach that day wasn't, you know, there's a lot of things that come into that day, as I'm sure you can echo. But please, please, if you're listening to the podcast and you've had a bad experience, don't give up on that. Because there are, and here's one right here, great coaches that understand the importance of bringing people along at a pace that makes sense. So so happy that you touched on that. So thank you very much.

SPEAKER_00 41:53

But yeah, no, if again, if if we're not having fun, um uh yeah, it it's funny because you know, you'll get into a group lesson, and of course, you know, you've got different personalities, different levels of physical fitness, different ages. And, you know, we do have a curriculum that we kind of like the Bible on how, you know, if you're coming for this lesson, we should be doing this. But I think a good coach in my mind, and is one that can add lib on the on the fly, going, you know what? I know you came here for this, and not saying it out loud, but you go, okay, they're not gonna get this today unless we go backwards a little bit. So why don't we learn this? And it might be something as simple as me putting my paddle on the ground and tossing balls now. And they look at you and go, no, I it's not you, it's me. I just want more consistency of my ball going to you. So you take not the blame, but you take the onus off of them not getting it, and just saying, hey, I'm not giving you the balls the way that I want to off of a paddle. So I'm gonna do more control with a with a hand-fed ball, you know. So make you have to make them feel like they're succeeding. Um, and as long as they walk away with, first of all, fun, that's my biggest worry. And second of all, hey, maybe I I didn't learn how to do cross-court thinking today, but man, did I learn how to, you know, lift and push the ball over the net so that at least eight times out of ten, the ball's going over the net instead of eight times out of ten going into the net, you know? Yeah, just little little mini success stories within the actual um session.

SPEAKER_01 43:52

Yeah, and the great thing again to draw us back to the game itself and the foundation of this game, Ken, that we all love so much. You really can plug. In wherever you decide you want to plug in, you don't have to be a tournament player. You don't need to become an elite pickleball player to get the social benefits of what this game provides, the physicality running around, getting some steps, getting the heart rate up. I mean, you're going to get that at almost any level. But to sit back at any club anywhere in Canada today, or for that matter, North America, you know, when the social programming's running, it really is something to see. You know, you've got maybe, you know, let's just pick a court, 12 courts running on a Tuesday morning with all these different players, different levels, maybe an intermediate game in the corner, a beginner game over here. And everybody's having fun or should be. And it's, you know, I love that about this game. But there is something to be said. And I would encourage anyone listening to the podcast, if you've just begun with a game or you've been at it for a short period, take some coaching. And the reason I say that is when you get to that next level, whatever that is for you, there's nothing more thrilling in this game than a serve, a return, a nice third shot, a couple of little rallies, maybe a bit of a speed up, then somebody accidentally does a reset. You know, maybe they don't even mean to, right? There's an accidental reset all of a sudden, and people go, oh, wow, we're dinking again. You know, when you get into your, and I remember mine almost like it was yesterday, because when we start, it's usually serve return point, you know, serve loss of serve. Like it doesn't, the rallies don't go on for you know two or three normally in a beginner level. But as you level up just a little bit, and boy, Ken, when you get into that first, you know, 15, 18, 20 rally uh point, it's it's a whole different game. So I'm I'm not talking yeah, I'm not talking to you, the coach, because you know this. I'm talking to the person listening to this in their car, driving along, or sitting at home watching on YouTube. I'm just take the coaching to try to get, not so much so you get better or so you become that elite player, but boy, when you have that first game with 12, 15 rallies and somebody does an accidental reset, or you know, you hit a drive that that works, you know, to win that point after several back and forths. It's and you mentioned that pro game that you were able to watch when you were down at the US Open. I got to watch some of the big names out in California a couple of years ago. And you know, I'm standing there saying to Francis, so this is not the game we're playing in Kingston, I'll tell you that much. But I'm not sure it's the game I ever want to play. I like the game I play today, and and I'm able to get those rallies most of the time. We have a great time. So you you've really hit the nail on the head for me today. So thanks for going there with all that.

SPEAKER_00 46:25

No, you and again, just to expound on that a bit a little bit, is yes, the game is changing mainly because the players are getting younger, you know, the paddles are um making the ball move faster. Um, but there still is, you know, I'll I'll watch what we affectionately call the bangers play, and accidentally they get into a dinking rally, and it's phenomenal to watch. And, you know, um you have the intermediate or the beginner players watch and go, yes, that that soft game is still alive. Um, and it's funny because there are a few students that I teach not at a real high level, but uh I look at them and I go, technically, you hit the ball just as good as I do, but you don't you're you're in such a hurry to win, like you you want to win right off the serve, you know? Like it's a strategic game. I like to say you're not you're not playing checkers anymore, you're playing chess, right? And that's the biggest difference is the satisfaction of building a point instead of just whacking the ball. But again, there's nothing wrong with just whacking the ball if that's if that's what you like to do. Um, and if you get four people on the court that that's all they like to do, there's again nothing wrong with that. But um a lot of times people come to me and they just say, I'm losing this, I'm or I'm I'm not succeeding at this. And I go, I just want to change your mindset a little bit. I don't want to change your stuff, I don't want to change your strokes, I don't want to change the way you hit the ball, I just want to change your decision making. And they'll and you know, and then I'll get a text or an email going, I just played my recreational ball and it was so much fun, you know, and I had success. So I go, Great.

SPEAKER_01 48:27

I love it. I love all that. Well, Ken, that's great stuff. We could talk all day. We could talk all weekend about that part. I mean, the game of pickleball, rally number two in the podcast, is always the one that I'm most enthusiastic about because it's just such a great game for all the reasons that we've touched on and so many more that we haven't had time to touch on today. But uh thank you for all of that. Yeah, let's wrap up a little bit with what um what uh Tailored Pickleball does on the on the travel and vacation side, because um it seems to me you've been on a few of these trips, and it seems to me like you may have shared a few photographs from some of these trips with me. And I have to say, you do travel with quite a colorful outfit uh in your suitcase here and there and everywhere. So tell me about uh pickleball vacations from your perspective. Um, how much fun are these things? I've never done one. I I know that uh, you know, Cam's got an organized, you know, an arm of his organization that does that.

SPEAKER_00 49:16

And uh well, first of all, they are a ton of fun. And you know, um, depending on where the trips I've gone, I've I think I've done three out of the I'm not sure how many they've done, but it's it's basically focused on pickleball and teaching pickleball, as well as um we have in order so on a normal day, we have a two-hour training session from 8 30 to 10:30, and then we have another two-hour training session from 10:30 till 12:30. Then from then till four o'clock ish, and is you're on your own. You can continue to play pickleball in 40 degree heat, or you can go in the ocean, or you can go on little excursions, but each evening we have a theme night. So um, so the colorful costumes or what you're talking about. So one night we'll have if it's not bright, it's not right. So just show up in the brightest colors you have. Then we'll have like a uh rock and roll or country and western theme. Um, then one night it will be just um play uh uh challenge the pros night, you know, and in some cases pros and quotation mark, because I am one of those pros and quotation marks, but they just line up and they just have so much fun. Um there's um a couple of it's actually escaping my memory on the other theme nights, and then we end off the week with an in-house tournament, and we also watch all the participants all week, and we come up with some amazing awards at the end. Like, you know, um, we had a gentleman once. Um, I'm not gonna name his name. I don't know if he wants to be embarrassed. So um he he ended up doing a face plant on the first trip. He literally flipped over the net, and you know, he was a road rash. So anybody that kind of stumbles or whatever, we now give an award to that person in his honor.

SPEAKER_01 51:38

Right, in Bob Smith's name, I get you. Okay, right, right. How cool.

SPEAKER_00 51:43

Um, you know, um, you know, we hit we do a drill where you know you you're telling your students, you gotta bring your paddle back to home. And of course, we'll watch. And there's there's one guy that you know he he won it last last trip because his paddle's always down by his knees. And so we gave him the homeless award. So a lot of fun and a lot of gibber jabber, a lot of chirping. Um, but the the trips are really well organized. Um, what we do is we have a team. Um, we have a couple of high-level pros that play in the CNPL. They come down as the special guest instructors, uh, CAMs there, and then depending upon how many uh applicants or participants, I should say, then they bring X amount of instructors as well. So we have that nice student to instructor ratio. But also we have a couple um that come down and they're literally our social conveners. So that instead of saying, Ken, like um, what what's happening at what you see that lovely lady over there? She can help you out. So we have a team that looks after everything, whether whether you're you know, you're not happy with your room, that that kind of stuff. So yeah, and uh we've had we've got one couple, they've been on every trip so far, you know. So they got an award, you know, like just you know, thanks for showing up. But yeah, no. Um it I compare it to like if you're a cyclist and you go on these cycling trips, if you're a wine enthusiast and you go on these wine trips, hey, you're a pickleball enthusiast, come with us, and you're going to get your fill of pickleball and you're going to learn something at the same time. It was funny because our second last trip, um, there was some uh people there that I would say they're high-level players, and they kind of came with the attitude that I don't think we're gonna learn anything. They walked away and said, I'm so glad that we came because we did learn something. So anyway, uh they're a lot of fun. Uh, you meet a lot of nice people um from all over the uh sure, you know, every every walk of life.

SPEAKER_01 54:05

Um well, I love it. And you know, I wondered today, Ken, talking about this, and I think about you know the cruise, the cruise line industry that has made pickleball a big part of their sort of offering as well to attract that clientele. And I think about, you know, if Barney McCallum and Gerald Pritchard and and the rest of them, that you know, this game was developed in 1965, you know, to keep kids busy. It really was nothing more than that in that moment. And for that to evolve and for the game to evolve to where it is today, and we talk about the pro tours and we talk about the big money and the paddle technology, and we talk about all of that together, and then you pile on top the vacations and the getaways and the friendships. And there's just no way that the founders of this great game could have ever envisioned it becoming what it is today. And uh, every element of what we've talked about today is part of that magic moment that I call in pickleball when you pick up the paddle and the ball for the very first time and you step on a court and it changes your life. And uh, this has been enlightening today, talking to you about all of this. And uh it's been fun, Mike. Yeah, I love your passion. And uh, you know, again, at the risk of embarrassing you, I'm gonna put up some photos uh that you've shared. And I will to be fair put up one of me that I'm not necessarily sure should ever be consumed by the public, but I'll I'll throw that one up too. Listen, we love this game, you and I, and and we get along great. We love we love the game. And uh, you know, we need more of you out there, Ken again.

SPEAKER_00 55:21

You are embarrassing me, but I'll I'll take the accolades.

SPEAKER_01 55:25

You're good for the game and and and your approach to it, and uh, you know, the way that you set things up and the important role that fun continues to play in this game, I think is something that we just never want to lose. So good on you for doing all that you're doing to help move the game along. I appreciate it. Thank you very much. You are welcome. Well, listen, this has been great. We'll chat soon and uh enjoy your long Easter weekend.

SPEAKER_00 55:46

Okay, cheers and keep your paddle up.