The DadCo Podcast

This Therapist Exposed The Biggest Mistake Dads Are Making 😱 | Ep. 9

• Dustin & Thomas

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0:00 | 1:16:57

Most dads were taught to be strong. But what if real strength looks different than we think?

This week on The DadCo Podcast, we sit down with licensed therapist, husband, and father James Davis for one of our most honest and vulnerable conversations yet.

From navigating grief, anxiety, and burnout to balancing marriage, fatherhood, and the pressure of always feeling like you have to "hold it all together," James gives practical wisdom that every dad needs to hear.

We dive into questions like:

Why do so many men struggle to talk about what they're really feeling?
What do kids actually need most from their fathers?
Are dads unintentionally passing their own baggage on to their children?
How do you lead your family when you're scared, exhausted, or feel like you're falling apart?

Along the way, Dustin opens up about one of the hardest seasons he's faced after a truck wreck, family emergencies, and the pressure of providing, leading to some of the most personal moments we've ever shared on the podcast.

This episode is packed with laughter, hard truths, practical advice, and reminders that being a great dad isn't about pretending you're okay—it's about being honest enough to grow.

Whether you're a new dad, a seasoned father, or simply trying to become a better husband and man, this conversation will challenge the way you think about strength, leadership, and vulnerability.

👇 What was your biggest takeaway from this episode? Let us know in the comments!

👍 Like the video if it encouraged you.
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🎙️ New episodes of The DadCo Podcast drop every week.

⏱️ Chapters

00:00 – Welcome Back to DadCo!
02:45 – Dustin's Crazy Six Weeks (Truck Wreck, Fire & Life Update)
05:15 – Meet James Davis
08:20 – James' Story: Loss, Depression & Finding Purpose
15:05 – Why James Became a Therapist
18:45 – Biggest Misconceptions About Therapy
24:10 – Lessons Learned from Helping Others
28:15 – Becoming a Dad for the First Time
35:40 – The Hardest Part of Fatherhood
40:55 – What Every Child Really Needs from Their Father
44:20 – Are Dads Passing Their Baggage to Their Kids?
51:30 – Why Men Don't Talk About Their Feelings
57:10 – Balancing Work, Family & the Pressure to Provide
1:03:50 – The Healthiest Way Men Can Handle Stress
1:09:30 – Fear, Vulnerability & Learning to Ask for Help
1:17:40 – "Who Protects Dad?"
1:24:30 – What It Really Means to Be a Man
1:30:15 – Final Thoughts & Encouragement for Every Dad

#DadCoPodcast #Fatherhood #DadLife #Parenting #MentalHealth #Marriage #Therapy #ChristianDad #Family #Leadership

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SPEAKER_02

Okay.

SPEAKER_06

Welcome to the Diddy Co Pumpekins, greatest pumpekins in the world. How is your week freaking gonna look?

SPEAKER_02

Should have been better. Go ahead. No, no, no. Week's been uh week's been good. Honestly, it could be worse. So so I'm holding them under the reins and saying we're gonna ride this this beautiful wave of life until uh until the wave either kills me or uh I get through it. So there we go. That's how we roll with that. There you go. How are you doing, bud?

SPEAKER_06

Because brother, been uh crazy four weeks. Y'all, we haven't recorded in like in like six weeks, it feels like I don't think I don't think we've recorded in a minute, in a hot minute.

SPEAKER_02

It feels distant, and I'll tell you that.

SPEAKER_06

Yeah. Well, if you're watching on YouTube, we have more angles. We have more camera angles now. Look at this. And I gotta figure it out. Look at this. Look at this. Oh, yeah. Hey, hey, hey, hey. And back to him, and back to me. Um, yeah. We have many angles now, and I'm trying to figure out this freaking switcher, but we're gonna do it. We're gonna do the dang thing. We're gonna work it. We're gonna work it.

SPEAKER_00

Oh my god. Back it up, back it up. Different era. You work it to me, when we're decades off in songs right now.

SPEAKER_06

Yeah, we are. Hey. Yikes. Y'all see this third chair right here? This one right here? Yep. It's pretty empty, pretty lonely. It looks good. Does look good. We're gonna feel it. We're gonna feel it.

SPEAKER_02

With a big old sexy man. You wanna uh you wanna introduce our third chair tonight? I do. I do. Let me tell you something. This is a good friend of mine, uh, a dear friend. He's a he's a wonderful father. He is a a wonderful friend, he is a a good therapist, so I hear and he is Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

SPEAKER_05

I was like just the way you were you were introducing him.

SPEAKER_02

I'm like, done it. Uh he he is a good friend. He is an incredibly sexy, below average lover. Uh let's bring out my my bestie, my lover. I can't, I gotta stop. James Davis! James Davis! James Davis! Yo, and as he as he gets set up uh and gets ready to talk, D, give me like a three-minute hey, hey, or like a blast from the past, quick little update on life, just because everybody needs to hear it.

SPEAKER_06

Blast from the past, quick little update on my on life. All right, listen. Jesus. Don't cry. Uh wrecked my truck. Yep. Yeah, into a semi-truck. So that was awesome. Freaking semi-driver being a being a being a Houston, a good old Houston driver.

SPEAKER_02

You're right. A good driver because you did it. It was actually your fault. Uh scrap, he's actually a very, very decent driver.

SPEAKER_06

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh and and then a few days later, well, actually a few days before that, before a few days before wrecking my truck, my sister-in-law got in a car wreck on our way back to Dallas. Dude, I didn't even know that. Yeah. Her car got flipped, turned around, and and it was just, it was really, it was really rough. Um, and then a few days after my wreck, uh, my in-laws uh lake house uh caught on fire.

SPEAKER_02

Which I'm sure we're gonna get into a little bit more because uh we got a therapist here to work all this out.

SPEAKER_06

So uh Yeah, and when I say Lake House, I don't want you guys to hear uh mansion on Lake Travis in Austin, Texas. This is um as serious as it was, and I'm I'm I'm shedding some light on it, gonna be comedic about this because our therapist here says that comedy is the best form of of healing.

SPEAKER_03

One of them. We can use other techniques, but like I'm down to laugh at you, mostly. Yeah. We love the house.

SPEAKER_02

He's just trying to make a larger situation.

SPEAKER_06

Honestly, yeah. It was we loved the house. Um and yeah, uh we'll dive into that. Um, but um that's been my last few weeks.

SPEAKER_02

Well, dude, I'm so glad you're here. It's I know you guys haven't seen us in a while. It's been a bit of a whirlwind for for Dustin, especially, and uh, we're so glad to be back. And we're so glad to bring my man James on. Uh going to a beautiful segue out of that despicable awful intro of your life, Dustin. Um can you not kill you. I'm joking, I love you, bro. Uh James, if you were in ten minutes, could just give us a brief update. Uh not an update, just a brief description of of your life, uh, maybe five years to now, and kind of like where you're at. And again, it has to be brief, it doesn't have to be crazy.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, I can do that, man. Um I'm gonna go like full life and just do like quick. Yeah, tell us your story. Yeah, man. So I I grew up uh in the church. Um I have two of the like greatest parents that have ever lived, which cause problems in some ways, which is weird that that happens sometimes. Um so uh like like my yeah, like you hang out with my parents. Yeah, like our friends go over to my parents' house when I'm not there to hang out with them. They did murder mystery. You understand how cool they are?

SPEAKER_02

They didn't murder mystery with us, right? So it was really dope. And not only that, her his mom cooked these like what are these those sliders with the plastic stuff on it? The Hawaiian sliders, man. Oh my gosh, dude. Yeah, Tristan Davis is saint. She's she's the bomb. Anyway, I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_04

So uh grew up in the church, um, very much like church kid, um, very straight edge, didn't really do anything at all, like through high school. Uh, and had like a lot of like tragedies happen around me. Uh not directly with my family, but I had a couple friends that like passed away in a car accident when I was in sixth grade, and then another buddy, like who actually was a good friend of mine at the time, uh, who like had a heart condition and he died next to me uh in eighth grade. I don't even know if you know this stuff. We don't talk about this stuff.

SPEAKER_02

Hey, wait a second. Listen, we're trying to do this light. You asked. Well, ask a silly question. Sorry, I did I didn't I did no idea this.

SPEAKER_04

No, you're good, man. It's all good. Um and so I got like crazy depressed uh into high school uh and didn't like talk about it at all. Uh and then like basically that all came out uh at like uh a point where I just got like super, super low and struggled a ton. Uh and that kind of continued like through college and just after college. Uh and as I kind of came out of that, uh I went into like youth ministry and then decided after a little while, I was like, this is a lot for not a lot of money. Uh and I am broke and I want to have a family. Uh yeah, amen. Amen. Uh and so I I went back to school and got a counseling degree, moved back to uh Houston and met my wife, uh, had our daughter Ruth.

SPEAKER_02

You said you moved back, so where were you?

SPEAKER_04

I was in San Antonio for a while. I was living there for about five years. Nice. Uh finished up school at UTSA, go runners.

SPEAKER_02

And then uh so glad you're not an Aggie, bro.

SPEAKER_04

Well, everyone else in my family. So all that nice thing to say about my mom. No sliders, Aggie born and bred. Yeah, I know. See you, bud. You can just walk off the podcast. All good, all good. Um but I moved back, um, kind of figured out a lot of stuff about how I felt about me. Um, met my wife Lindsay about five years ago, six years ago, uh, and then had our baby girl Ruth a little less than 16 months ago.

SPEAKER_02

So she is the sweetest little girl in the world.

SPEAKER_04

It's crazy. I know every parent says that, but like uh we have people just like walk up to our tables at restaurants and be like, your kid has just been smiling at me, and I feel better about who I am as a person. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

So it's pretty great.

SPEAKER_02

She does radiate joy. Yeah. Except at night, apparently. That's not a good time.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, she's having a rough night right now. Shout out to my wife for taking care of that. Let's go, Liz. It's tough. Uh, and she's a true person. Let's hear it for the wives. Yeah, honestly.

SPEAKER_02

That's all you get.

SPEAKER_03

All you get is manufactured applause. We're not gonna say anything to you. We're not gonna get you anything. We're literally manufactured applause.

SPEAKER_02

We're literally doing this on Tuesday. All three were wives and entrants. They're taken care of right now.

SPEAKER_03

You set your wife up with the dog.

SPEAKER_06

I did. I did. I said, I said, I ain't dealing with that dog on another episode.

SPEAKER_02

We gotta go do a dad co-podcast. Leave us alone. Oh, dude, that's so good. Uh well, I guess you kind of answered my first question. I I guess life, uh obviously the tragedies you went to, and we we can we can go into that as much as you want, but uh I'm guessing that kind of that kind of guided you to to therapy into helping people get a lot of people.

SPEAKER_04

In some ways, yeah, man. Uh I I feel like there are like two ways that you get into uh my field, which is really you either are going through something and wish somebody was there for you, or you're there for other people. Yeah. And for me it was kind of like a bit of both. I had moments where I was like, I don't know how to talk about this. Everything in my life on the surface is like really good. And really, like even like slightly under the surface, things are pretty good. Like my family is great. Yeah, I got good friends, like things are fine. Uh, I didn't have any major problems at all. But just these things that happened, I didn't know how to explain, I didn't know how to deal with, uh, and I didn't know how to even talk about it. So uh and that led me to try and help other people with their problems, which you shouldn't do uh as a teenage boy uh at 14, 15.

SPEAKER_03

I was like uh as a career later on in life when your frontal lobe fully develops, great. Love that. Fair enough.

SPEAKER_04

Uh at 15, when you're just like hormones and there are just like sad people around you, probably not the best option. But uh it kind of guided me to the spot where I realized that what I want to do is continue to try and sit with people with the things that are hardest for them uh and talk through it with them. Because a lot of people just need somebody to tell you that you're not crazy for feeling the way that you feel. And um most of the time I get to tell people that. Occasionally I get to say, actually, we got some real issues. And we're not enough, we're gonna have to figure that out too.

SPEAKER_02

You might want to table that one, you know.

SPEAKER_04

Right, right. And that and that's that's actually a lot rarer than I think people realize. Right. Right. But I love what I get to do. Uh it's a joy to be able to kind of sit with people going through kind of like the hardest stuff that they've experienced and get to share that with them.

SPEAKER_02

It it's interesting because you you meet a lot of people who are doing a career or doing something that you know makes them a lot of money, and very rarely you you come across people who actually love it. You know what I mean? Yeah. I like I I'm decent at what I do. I don't know if I love it. You know what I mean? I don't think I'm in love with what I do. I think I'm just decent enough at it to make money. But but to find someone who actually loves it, it it's it's definitely evident in you. And it's even it even like when me and you talk and we're having like a late night drink or something, hanging out, like it it just it beams from you that you're you're you're always ready to listen. And I gotta I gotta give you applause for that, brother. I appreciate that, man. That's uh that's a sweet deal. I appreciate that. Yeah, yeah, man. So I guess the next question would be what would you think is the biggest misconception people have about therapists, especially men? Because I think I and correct me if I'm wrong, I feel like men are the ones who are most apprehensive.

SPEAKER_04

Sure. Um I really enjoy uh kind of like the space I get to provide as a male therapist because I have a lot of guys that come to me and kind of say the same things, which is usually like I don't know what to do with how I'm feeling.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Um or I I don't like feeling this way and I'm trying to stop it, and I have to tell them actually it's okay, and we have to learn to cope with that, uh, as opposed to just run away from it, which kind of is what we do, or we just try and like repress it. Uh I think like the the misconceptions around therapy, uh that's hard. There are a couple that I want to talk about. I think the first one, uh therapists aren't what fix you. Um and so kind of like preachers. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Uh definitely.

SPEAKER_04

But yeah, in some ways for sure. Uh I really enjoy getting to tell the people that I work with that if they're improving, it's because they've made changes. Like they're the ones making the actual changes. I get to talk to them about what skills they can maybe work on or what areas of their life that maybe there's some like cognitive dissonance, like they think one thing, but they're doing something different, and I get to point it out and kind of help them work through that in a gentle way for the most part. Um, but then they get to actually do the work. Uh they're the ones that have to sit down and actually like make functional changes that result in them having better relationships with themselves or other people.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Uh, and then when they leave, when they're done seeing me, I can say, dude, you did this yourself. I was here kind of guiding things, but you made these choices, so you can continue to make them without me. That's so good. So I really enjoy them to do that.

SPEAKER_06

Do you feel like any of your clients or people uh who know you're a therapist, do you feel like people perceive therapists as they've got like life just figured out? You've got all your stuff figured out. Yeah. Uh let me spill the tea, boys. Right, right, right.

SPEAKER_04

Uh no. Um, I hope not, at least. I think there are some um therapists that I've met and worked with who I don't think are very good at their job because they try and pretend like they have it all figured out, have it all together. Um, what I I we have a couple different like uh associates at our uh at the place that I work who are basically just like people that are still working on their full license. Uh and when I tell them kind of like the baseline advice, it's always you need to be yourself first and then a therapist. Because if you try and be like what the textbook says you should be, it's just not gonna be real. You're not gonna be a human. Uh and if you're missing that, then the rest of the stuff doesn't matter because people are like, cool, you're just a robot. Why am I not just talking to Chat GPT? Um so the thing that matters is that you are an actual human. Um and so when I meet people that are trying to do kind of the like, oh, I'm like the straight lace therapist person, I often like there's probably some deep dark secrets that you're hiding, um, and I don't trust you. Uh and also I I usually don't think those people are as good at their job. Um and they can be, like, there are people that are authentically that way, but not not very many in my experience.

SPEAKER_02

That's so good. Um let me ask you this, because this is this is one that I think I don't know if it's too soon to ask, but um we're gonna do it. What's something you've learned from your clients that changed your own life? And it can be one particular thing or it can be a generic thing that you face.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, that's good. Yeah, um I'm not gonna use a client necessarily.

SPEAKER_02

Uh yeah, I want their name, address, yeah.

SPEAKER_04

I uh to avoid uh any HIPAA issues. Uh I will not be cl disclosing any details, but I'm gonna talk actually about before I got into this. Um when I was working as like a youth pastor out in San Antonio, uh one of the things that like I think people are desperate to do that are in helping professions usually is try and really be the reason people are fixing, kind of jumping off my past answer in some ways. Um and I I kinda got forced by the amount of problems that these high school guys that I was working with were having that I had no control over, uh, that I I couldn't fix anything. Uh and I had to be really okay with not being Jesus. Oh gosh. And uh that's that was a really weird thing because I didn't realize that's what I was trying to do. Like I was trying to save people in any way possible, whether it be mental health or like actual salvation, but I wanted to be the catalyst behind that change and I just never could. Yeah. And so you had to kind of get to the spot where it's out of your control, uh, and that like in a positive way. Like you have to be able to accept that you don't have any control over what these people are going to do. And that is actually greatly relieving because if my client goes out uh and hurts somebody or hurts themselves, um my job is to be with them for the 45 or 50 minutes that I have them that week or twice a week uh and work with them on functionally making better choices, but they can make bad choices without me. And I don't have any control over that. And so that helps me sleep at night, it helps me be present for my kids, uh, my kid, singular, dogs are about to say dogs are my kids. Don't no only one, not not expecting. Um gotta make sure we clarify that. Um, but it helps me there for my family, for my wife, for my kid, for my friends, because I'm not wrapped up thinking about my clients. I haven't thought about a client since I left work today, like at all. Not even for like a half second. That's right. And I love being able to do that.

SPEAKER_06

That would be hard for me. Yeah. Because I'm an empath, uh, and I could not be a therapist. I I have a hard time being a pastor. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I I uh I think about my clients right now. And I tell you what, it's rough. Yeah, like like no, I mean like in a good way because I'm thinking about I want to get them the best thing possible. I want to create this magical, whimsical, you know, thing for them. And then if I can't do that, if I'm having issues doing that, I'm like, oh I can't see that.

SPEAKER_06

Sure. Yeah. That makes sense.

SPEAKER_04

It's gotta come from them, man. It's gotta come from them.

SPEAKER_02

That's so good, bro. So we're gonna pivot a little bit and come back to the therapy thing because I think that's gonna I think that's gonna revive itself back into the conversation for sure. But um, let me ask you this what is what surprised you rather the most about becoming a dad?

SPEAKER_04

I think initially, um, and this is I think this is gonna be a little controversial. Um I didn't feel very connected to my brain for the first three or four months. And I would talk to my wife about that, and I'm a pretty emotional guy, and so it was weird. Like I felt like very cold, disconnected. My wife was way more stressed, uh, and I couldn't help with that. Uh my daughter was really struggling, and like I was fine with the fact that I couldn't really do anything, but there was no connection that I felt really between us for the first couple months. Um and that was weird because I was expecting to like immediately be like, oh, right. That just didn't happen at all. Uh and it it took until uh Ruth like made eye contact and looked at me. Uh and then I was like, right. Yeah, yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_03

I will kill everybody.

SPEAKER_04

I will murder people with my bare hands for the sake of you smiling again. We'll burn cities down. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I was like, I have never had that impulse to hurt anybody. Right. I am not that way at all. Holy crap, this is crazy. That's so funny. I think for some people it comes later than for others, but it it usually does show up. Yeah. Um, but that I think was like a misconception that I had before I had my kid out.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. I feel like most dads too deal with that. It's like it's like our first our first feeling with our kid is not I love you so much. It's like I'm going to I'm going to go to hell and back for you, and I'm gonna I'm gonna murder anybody in the way. Like, like it's it's this natural inclination as a dad to be like, I'm it's you are my responsibility, and and there is no one on earth that's gonna keep me from getting to you despite the cost. And I think that's pretty dope.

SPEAKER_06

I think that comes after the uh oh moment, you know? Like just I mean you meet you meet your kid for the first time. Yeah, and it's like I don't think every I I don't know, man. I I think most dads probably have that reaction where it's not the oh I mean I I also had the uh but it was after the uh what do I do now?

SPEAKER_02

This is this thing's alive. What do you mean? It has diapers? What is that? Yeah, yeah, bro. It gets it gets buck wild. I'll let you hit the next one, D.

SPEAKER_06

Well, let me switch to my camera angle. Freaking nailed it, man. Beautiful transition. Um, brother. Um what emotions as a father has caught you off guard? Like, is there has there been anything that's kind of stopped you in your tracks and been like, oh, like you know what I'm saying there?

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, yeah, I don't know if I've had uh like a stop still, drop-dead emotional moment necessarily. I think the closest I get is uh when I get home from work. Usually my wife is home before me and we'll pick up our kiddo from daycare, uh, and I'll I'll just like drop to my knees and hold my arms out and she'll come like tackle me. Uh and that, man, that's the best. Like, yeah, I just I'm like, I want you to just keep giving me a hug because this is just so sweet. Right. Uh and she like expects me to fall over because I'll like fake fall over, and so now what she'll do is she'll just run forward with two hands and not try and hug me, just like two hands stiff arm me to the floor, and then go dot that. God, yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_06

The duh is is everything, man.

SPEAKER_04

It's the best, man. It's the best.

SPEAKER_06

Has there been anything that's um um has there been anything that's like harder than you expected?

SPEAKER_04

I I mean I think my wife said too much. My parents this past week, and she's like, Yeah, for like three months, I thought we were gonna get divorced because things were rough. Like it was there was just a period of time where uh our our kiddo had like a dairy and soy intolerance and was really struggling. Uh and so we were getting like maybe between two and three hours of sleep every night.

SPEAKER_01

Wow.

SPEAKER_04

And so we were fighting a lot more because we were pissed off about everything and super tired.

SPEAKER_06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

And so, yeah, it was it was bad. Uh, and we like my wife is a social worker, I'm a therapist, so when we can't solve problems, it makes us even more pissed. That's a crazy duo. I did not know that. Yeah, dude. Yeah, yeah. She uh she works at Texas Children's as a social worker. She actually just took another job uh working at a foster agency. So um we we're really good at fighting. Uh we know all the tricks and tips both to do it well and to do it horribly. And we get to decide if we're gonna be like nice about it or not. And sometimes when you're frustrated, you just make bad decisions, and that's true of everybody, whether you're that's health professional or not.

SPEAKER_02

Dude, I I can only think about the mental chess games. Yeah, like that's that's next level of fighting, bro. Well, and you know like y'all know how A gets to Z, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, we do, we do. And I mean, you know my wife pretty well, so honest. She's honest and she is stubborn, and I am also that way.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04

No, but I love that about her. I do. I I would rather have somebody hurt me with something that is true that I need to work on than like sugarcoat it at all.

SPEAKER_01

Right.

SPEAKER_04

Uh, and she's pretty good about not doing that. So if there's something that she wants me to work on or things could be better or fixed, she'll she'll call me out.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

I appreciate that when I've gotten more than three hours of sleep.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

That might put a little damper in it, I'm sure. I'm I'm very fortunate. My wife's taking like most of the most of the brunt of the sleep time stuff. So if I get five hours of sleep, I can't really say nothing. I'm like, hey, the life's great. Everything's good. Are you okay, babe? Everything's good. Uh bro, that's poor Julie, man. Dude, she's a she's a hoss, brother.

SPEAKER_03

She'll keep working, man. Yeah, she's she's she's a tough girl.

SPEAKER_02

What is I I think you kind of hit on this already, but what is what is something that is surprisingly harder? Like, like, what is something that like, oh man, this is this is out of my realm harder as a dad than I expected? If there was something.

SPEAKER_04

Um I think it's the parenting aspect. I uh one of the things that we talked about when we were doing like some I think it was premarital counseling. Uh they talked about like part of like parenting is that you're both gonna have different ideas about how to do something, and neither of you were right and either of you were wrong. Um I like being right. Uh and so does my wife, uh, though I'm worse about that. And so uh often we'll have different good ideas that both could work, uh, and they're just just different enough to cause problems. Uh and so instead of just being like, cool, we'll go with your thing, I'm like, but like mine's a little bit better because of XYZ, I think. Right. Uh especially with something that's gonna be like long term. Like we'll we've had like probably 80 different conversations about the way bedtime should go, and we haven't figured out what actually works. So like my wife is desperately trying to get our kid to sleep tonight, and then uh yeah, like there's just it's such a moving target. I want it to be one thing that functionally works because that's how my brain wants it to go, and it it just isn't that way. Sometimes it's just weird.

SPEAKER_02

Have you ever like thrown your credentials in an argument?

SPEAKER_04

No, no, I've never done it.

SPEAKER_02

I am more astute in this.

SPEAKER_04

Here's the problem though. Like, she she has been ahead of me in her license the entire way, so I do that, I lose. I immediately lose. She's got me trumped immediately. Yeah, it would be over. It'd be over so fast.

SPEAKER_02

I would die immediately.

SPEAKER_06

Oh, just reminded me of Tommy Lee.

SPEAKER_02

Oh shut up, bro. Clown. Bobby Mom! Bobby Mom! Gonna change, I love you. Um okay, switching back to a little bit more therapist stuff. What do you think? What does a child actually you think and actually needs most from her father or his father?

SPEAKER_04

Oh, cool. Just the easiest question in the world. Thanks, man. Nice stuff. Cool. Uh man, I wish I hadn't had anything to drink.

SPEAKER_02

I know. Uh by the way, thank you, Dustin, for this poison. It's the worst. And yeah. Thank you, Thomas, for porn. Robotus is miserable. We're drinking Robotustin and Coke.

SPEAKER_06

Y'all, if you ever have poker nights, don't invite your uh friends who have bad jobs.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. Yeah, we have classist poker parties. If you're not making over 40,000 a year, you can't come. You gotta be able to afford a nice handle of like at least at minimum, bro.

SPEAKER_06

Jack. A $26 bottle.

SPEAKER_04

I mean, if you're not getting basil Hayden's at the very least, but what are we doing?

SPEAKER_02

What's funny is the bottle looks nice, but the liquid tastes like yeah, it's it's it's really bad. Yeah, but we're gonna drink it because we don't waste whiskey in this place.

SPEAKER_06

I just I just freaking went all over the place with those cameras, bro.

SPEAKER_03

I don't know what you're the and you're the prettiest girl of the whole school.

SPEAKER_01

You know that pretty big, you know, pretty big and that's okay.

SPEAKER_04

You don't have to you're just so pretty, it doesn't matter. Yeah. Um I think the most important thing uh a father can do for their kid uh is be honest about their failings, uh and in that help teach them how to vocalize when they have failed. Um because we all fail. Um and I think especially as dads, uh with the kids that I work with, the majority of things that I see from the boys is that they they need to fail and realize that they're gonna be okay. Um it's true for for most teenagers, I think you need to like hit the wall hard once and just see who's still there.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. Um yeah.

SPEAKER_03

I mean in your case, like you're still hitting the wall, but it's great. People are still hanging out with me. They like me still guy. I don't have to do anything right. It's great.

SPEAKER_04

Um, but in reality, like I think a lot of kids feel a lot of pressure to do things right, especially in the area that we live in. I'm working primarily in the woodlands, so especially there, um, there's just a lot of kids that really feel pressure to do all of it correctly. And so when they don't, yeah, they don't know how to express like, I don't know what to do with this failed expectation. And whether or not it's an expectation from their parents or not, like you need examples, I think from dads especially, that hey, like dad screws up. Yeah, dad like just put in the toilet seat wrong, or like got into a stupid fight with mom about something that was totally his fault, yeah. Uh, or it wasn't there for you, kid, in the way that you needed. And I recognized that too late. Uh, and I can be honest about that, or like anything like that. Like whether it's big, small, emotional, or like something tangential, like if you can acknowledge that you have failed, um, I think that really helps kids be honest. Like, yeah, like I'm not good at this, I want help. And that's really where parenting is most useful, because a lot of parents don't know when their kids do need help.

SPEAKER_02

Or they mimic or they mimic like their parents, which is like, and yeah, I saw that dude. I saw I saw nothing but a flip.

SPEAKER_04

So now we're gonna talk about Thomas's parents. Welcome to therapy, baby. Let's freaking go. No, no, no, no. My parents are great. Back to Thomas's parents. The first time I met Thomas, I made fun of his mom. I didn't know she had just died. That is the true story. Yeah, dude. She was like two weeks dead. I kept going about his dead mom. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Uh when deep. Well, don't do it. I really wanted to.

SPEAKER_03

Don't do it. I really wanted to. It's still funny.

SPEAKER_02

I think that's one of our one of the greatest moments in our friendship that is like, oh, we're gonna be friends for a long time.

SPEAKER_04

I seriously, I didn't even know that that uh I think it took me 45 minutes for like Jesse to pull me aside and be like, just so you know, Thomas's mom just died like seven days ago. And I was like, oh god, I just said some horrific things about your dead mother. And honestly, it's funnier that she's dead.

SPEAKER_03

Holy frick, bro. And that's that's how we became friends was me basically doing that in the first like five minutes.

SPEAKER_04

I basically did. Uh, because if you can't get out of a situation and be honest about your mistakes, kids, the other thing you can do is is double down.

SPEAKER_06

I like how you're saying kids, like you've got freaking teenagers watching dad go.

SPEAKER_03

Well, here's the thing they're gonna teach the kids. That's the idea, right? One day. Speaking of kids. Wow. Dude, you're so good at that. That transition was beautiful. Like the camera. Uh speaking of kids and dads and cameras.

SPEAKER_06

Yeah, I'm all over the place. These freaking cameras here. I'm gonna have to get in some software, program this thing to where I can just freaking pr press the camera buttons and not this like back and forth cut crap.

SPEAKER_02

It's like a B version of podcasts.

SPEAKER_06

Yeah, I'm trying to be on you right now, and I'm not that. It's going great. Hey, hi. This is crazy. Alright, speaking of kids and dads, and you know, the content as to why we're here. Uh um, what do you feel? Um uh do you feel like that dads do uh uh anything wrong over Yeah, famously throughout history, dads have done nothing wrong.

SPEAKER_03

That's my stance, no further questions.

SPEAKER_06

So let me let me word that a little bit.

SPEAKER_04

No one's ever had daddy issues ever. It's all everybody else's fault.

SPEAKER_06

What do dads often get wrong? Not because they're bad dads, not because um uh I mean I mean mainly because no one taught them. Right. What do you feel like dads often get wrong?

SPEAKER_04

Um I don't know about often, uh, but an example that comes to my mind right now, I had a client today actually, uh, whose dad came in to just talk to me about the situation. Uh his son's been experiencing some like mild suicidal thoughts. Um, and we've been working on just trying to get him into a healthy mindset um where he like likes himself. And dad wanted to talk to me and basically just ask, like, what's going on? And I want to share about like kind of my life to find out um what I could maybe be doing better, which I think is a great thing. Um I love when I have parents that actually want to engage. Um but the thing that he was doing wrong really was just fundamentally like the stuff that he wanted for his kid, he wasn't doing himself. Like I think a lot of times we're like, I want my kid to be better than me. Cool, then be that way. If you want your kid to be better than what you are, you gotta be that because you're the lesson. Like, whether or not you're telling it to them, they're seeing it. Yeah, so like this guy is just like actively not handling confrontations that are happening in his home and not like demonstrating that, and then his son is struggling with like being manipulated by people because that's what's happening to the dad, and it's just rough. Uh and and it's not always something that um is intentional. Like the first thing that dad said is like, I I worry about my son being like me. I'm like, okay, well, that's gonna happen. Um maybe not in every way, but in some ways. So if you want to make a change for your kid, you gotta change that in you. And a lot of times parents don't see that they're doing that. Fortunately, this dad does, and so I think he can make some functional changes pretty quickly, but a lot of parents they don't they're like, why is my kid this way? I'm like, have you do you own like a mirror, dude? Like you are demonstrating I'm yours. I mean um yeah uh like they demonstrate every single thing that they want their kid to do differently.

SPEAKER_06

That literally segues into my next question. Like, how often do you find that uh dads are unknowingly passing on their baggage to their kids, you know?

SPEAKER_04

I think every dad does. Um dang it. Yeah, man, sorry. It's gonna be you too. Not me, bro. This six weeks that's been horrible for you, buddy. Baggage for your kiddo. Uh, I mean, in some real ways though, like it's impossible not to. Because you're shaped by the things that happen to you. And so whether it's baggage or something that you work through, it's something you pass on to your kids. Because you can't change what's happened to you. Um, you can choose how to communicate it, um, but that's about it. And so when stuff goes wrong, the way that you communicate about it and the way that you demonstrate your own emotions about it, I think, is all that you really have. So when stuff goes wrong, the way that we talk about it, like I joke around a ton. I don't want my kid to joke around about how they're feeling, but I'm betting they probably will, and I'll have to work on that as they get older. Um and that sucks because it's just proof that there are things that I need to fix and do differently right now. And I know that and don't even want to change it all the time because it sounds hard. And that's just the truth.

SPEAKER_02

Do you feel like those hard things are are the same things that that develop the character in the child because they see their they see their dad or they see their mom say, hey, I'm gonna I'm gonna fight through this? Like Dustin's a good example. He he probably doesn't want me to hit on this, but I watched him go through this crazy time in the last couple weeks, and I'm texting him, I'm talking to him, he's like, No, I'm I'm meeting with the insurance guy, and I'm no I'm actually at the hospital, no, I'm actually I'm actually dealing with this right now. Can we reschedule for another time? And I'm seeing him become what needs to what what what his family needs in order to get through this tough time.

SPEAKER_04

I I think it's really difficult because you gotta do both. Um you gotta functionally be able to take care of business uh and power through the stuff that you have to in the moment. And then I think it's important to kind of circle back and acknowledge okay, this is what was going on with me. Because most of the time when I talk with these these kids, these teenagers that I work with a lot, they know when their parents are struggling, but they're not gonna bring it up unless their parent does. And so if if a parent can say, okay, like this has been a crazy week, how are you doing? Because I've been struggling, that opens a conversation that can really make some impactful changes.

SPEAKER_06

That's so good. Dang. Uh we would like to take this time to uh pop open a couple drinks. How you doing, Wilson?

SPEAKER_02

We need a switch from this whiskey real fast, Bubba. Yeah. Oh, that's great.

SPEAKER_04

That's what usually happens when I talk. People want to drink. That's a good time. Is this a therapy?

SPEAKER_06

Do you allow people to drink in your in your sessions?

SPEAKER_03

No, I've got alcoholics in my therapy sessions, man.

SPEAKER_04

The amount of times that like I've been through like six or seven sessions with a guy or or anybody, and they're just like, Yeah, and I've had eight beers today. Uh, and I'm like, we have not talked about the your drinking problem at all, and now we're gonna. Um but that's now it's not gonna Right. That happens all the time. Someone comes in with an issue, and then they're like, Oh, also, I've had 20 beers in the past 36 hours. And I'm like, Oh geez. Uh yeah, that that legitimately is a true story from this week.

SPEAKER_02

Well, before we get too far, boys, yes, cheers. Thank you, James, for coming on. And uh um that's it, we're closing up. No, I'm joking. Um what you were talking about though, I think is a is a beautiful segue into something else. I think most men have they got some hard stuff going on, right? They got stuff going on at home, they got stuff going on at work, and they're dealing with these these life things, and they're putting a lot of weight on themselves on how they can handle it or how they should handle it. Yeah. What advice do you give to that dad that is just like that's just grinding right now and maybe not seeing his kid every night because he's working 12 hours or maybe he's um I don't know, going through a divorce and things are real tough. Like, what do you what do you say to those guys?

SPEAKER_04

I think that again, you ask you guys ask quite good questions. It's like you guys are good podcasts or something. Um it's all it's all AI, dude. We don't do anything. Yeah, I figured. Uh you're not that.

SPEAKER_05

It's freaking data centers, bro.

SPEAKER_04

We're trying to make sure the world doesn't have any water by 2045. So our kids all suffer.

SPEAKER_02

I just copy people somewhere.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, I think like if it's a situation where you have some control over it, it's different than if you're in a situation where like you have to work 20 hours a week or like 20 hours a day, like that's that's different. So there's nuance to that. But if you are like the parent who is like like, man, I just don't feel like I'm really connecting with my kid, most of the time that's more about burnout than it is about the amount of time that you have. You you can make time. There are exceptions to this, and I'm not talking to those dads. Um but I think most of the time we can be pretty selfish, not in the sense that um our feelings aren't valid, but that we ignore the fact that if we're struggling, it usually means that our wives are struggling, it usually means that our kids are struggling.

SPEAKER_02

Perhaps, yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, we're not we're not in our like it usually means like our community is struggling, like there's stuff going on. And so if our take is like, man, I'm just not in a good enough spot to be able to like be there for my kid, or like reconnect with my wife, I mean, I think that says that you think that the way that you feel is more important than other people's, or that you're not even really aware that they might be feeling that way. And so my my challenge, I guess, would be to just gain some perspective or ask and check in and be like, hey, I am feeling this way, and I want you to know that because I want you to know where I'm at. Uh but two, if I'm feeling this way, I'm betting you're struggling too. So we should talk about that. We should have a conversation about how you're doing, because if I'm feeling this way, you probably are as well, and we need to be together on that, not with me isolating more, which is I think with the tendency of most men. Right. Uh we would rather just be like, cool, nose to the grind's down. I have something that I can actually accomplish, so I'm gonna go do that. Meanwhile, like talking to my wife about how I feel, I might not solve that problem tonight. Yeah. So I'd I'd rather work an extra three hours so that the financial burden is better at the end of the month. And I I understand that, but it's not always the right decision.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Well, that head's a little too close to home, so we're gonna edit that out. Just she's able to see it. I literally um I I literally dropped the ball with my wife today. On I I caught her and was like, I g I gotta work today, or I gotta work Saturday. And there was an expectation there that would that I that I we've already communicated, we already talked about, and I just I just effed it up. So so it hits real close to home, and I I think a lot of dads and husbands feel the same way. It's like you're constantly balancing, like especially if you're like you make your own money, whether it be like commission status or whatever it is, like you gotta create your your grind directly impacts your income. Yeah. Um and I I I feel like I could have done that a bit better, and you just called it out without calling it out, so F you, bro.

SPEAKER_06

I'm literally in the same boat, bro. Like I mean, we got all this going on. I feel like I gotta grind, right? Yeah, we we had to put a massive down payment on this truck and all this stuff, right? Like, just to just to yeah, just to keep going. And we're gonna go visit my family in Missouri this week. And uh a guy hit me up last night and was like, yo, I got a gig for you in Dallas if you want to pay it pays 2500 bucks. And I was like, when? It's Friday, we're leaving Thursday. And I was like, Well, my my family's in Springfield, Missouri. Flights from Springfield to Dallas, man, round trip, 300 bucks. I was like, Al, I'm gonna go make this money real quick. Sure. And uh obviously that did not go over well because it's a vacation to visit my family, and I'd have been gone for like two or three days from that vacation. And I was literally set on going to do that because I'm like, I gotta, I gotta grind. I gotta I gotta do this.

SPEAKER_02

Because that's my that's my identity. That's that's how I find myself. In my job. So what do you that's a good segue to the next question. We said segue a lot, didn't I? Um shout out to our sponsor Segway Get on the two-wheeled dolly.

SPEAKER_04

Uh yeah, man, it was too serious, right? You gotta do that. I gotta laugh it out, bro.

SPEAKER_02

You know my you know my stop therapy me, man.

SPEAKER_04

Listen, I do the same thing. We're the same.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, we are. Um I forgot about the same. What were we talking about? We're talking about your failings as your failings as as husbands, I think.

SPEAKER_03

I I don't know if we touched on that. I know I think it might have been.

SPEAKER_02

It wasn't that medal, some bell's happy.

SPEAKER_06

We're talking about grinding and identity. Yeah. You started to touch on that and then grind and identity.

SPEAKER_02

Well, I lost it. You lost it. I'm so cute. I blame your costumes.

SPEAKER_04

You were you were talking about how uh like this week you felt drop the ball with Julie a bit, and then um you felt called out by the way that I was talking about it. Um does that pick you up at all? No.

SPEAKER_02

I'm making it worse, bro. I'm making it worse. Let's move on.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, man. That's a good way to deal with things like we talked about earlier.

SPEAKER_02

That's how I do it. Talk the other guys do it too.

SPEAKER_06

I've got something to segue into. Sure. Sure. This is such a stressful moment. This is great.

SPEAKER_03

I'm happy to help. Feel like it really made y'all's week better.

SPEAKER_06

This is great. What do you believe the healthiest way men can deal with stress? What's the healthiest way men can deal with stress?

SPEAKER_01

Never talk about it.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, just keep it all in and then one day you die. Right? That's the joke. Yeah. I think honestly, the healthiest way you can deal with stress is by actually communicating how you're feeling, which sucks because it's really hard and it's not fun. Um my wife has called me out this week a couple different times for framing problems as something that like have happened to me as opposed to something that I'm feeling. And I'm like, shh, you're right. Um say that again though, dude. Yeah, dang it. So I I I think a lot of the times men will communicate not about how they're feeling, but about what they think the problem is. Yeah. Uh and so, like to use your example if you don't mind, like you're saying the problem is we need more money because things have been really stressful right now. So the solution uh is to pick up this job and to tell you that I feel like I need to do it, which maybe I do, but my feeling is maybe something closer to like fear or just frustration that I don't have control over the situation. Okay, bro. Okay. You're fired from this You're fired from this contact.

SPEAKER_02

I told you it's good. Told you it's good.

SPEAKER_04

But I mean, and that makes sense. Like that that you should feel that way because you don't have control, and it's not in in any in any way your fault.

SPEAKER_06

Okay, I'll let her know that I should be feeling the way and I should go make that bag. Well, I didn't say that.

SPEAKER_03

Let's not complete feelings with actions. Um, feelings don't dictate what we do.

SPEAKER_04

That's called wise mind, and that's a DBT skill. Uh, for those of you who learning. Can you just cuss at me?

SPEAKER_02

What did you do?

SPEAKER_04

I can.

SPEAKER_02

Do you want to just call me DBT? That sounds like a WWE.

SPEAKER_04

Let's just talk about this because it's something I think most men struggle with is this idea of wise mind where we let our emotions dictate a lot of our decision making uh instead of just saying, like, well, here's what I'm feeling and here's what I need, because we don't even get to the part we identify what we're feeling.

SPEAKER_02

Well, that's controversial. You're you're you're suggesting, which I think you're That we're really emotional.

SPEAKER_04

That we're actually really emotional basically. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's why we're so angry all the time, because we're actually just very sad. And anger lets us have actions where uh sadness feels like something I don't have control over. So uh I think the common vernacular is f that sh. Yeah. Uh that's normally I think how people do with that. And it's not helpful. Um, but anger, I have control over. There's something to be angry at. I'm angry at my wife, I'm angry at my job, I'm angry at the 18-wheeler that got in my way on the highway.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah. Friggin' yeah. Like, oh, it's a great driver. He just went back to work, bro. Yeah, my life was ruined. Like, he had no idea.

SPEAKER_02

I just called cops. I'll see you later.

SPEAKER_06

He's like, Yeah, there's a scratch. He literally, bro, it's so crazy. Uh no, I don't want to interrupt what you're saying.

SPEAKER_03

No, no, you're good.

SPEAKER_06

You're good, man.

SPEAKER_04

You're diving into some stuff. I I think uh a lot of the time uh because we want to have like an actionable solution, um we stop telling our wives and the people that matter in our lives how we're actually feeling. So uh we'll say it's been a hard week, but I'm working on this. Like, here's the solution that I have to the problem, as opposed to, and I'm really pissed off or I'm really like kind of scared that I don't know what's gonna happen next. Because we don't like having that weakness. Um, which is fair, like you don't have to like it, but it's not weakness to get into a wreck. Like that it's not weakness to have your like family lake house burned down. Like that wasn't at all in your control. You didn't decide that. That did that happened to you. And so to treat it like something that needs a solution, uh it just means that you're saying, like, I have to be the reason that my family's okay. And you don't. They can be the reason that you're okay sometimes. And I think we really hate that because we want to be the supportive part, not the part that needs support.

SPEAKER_02

I don't like all the emotions I'm feeling right now, to be honest with you. You make me feel all uh sad and and I don't know what to do. I feel like running. That's what I feel like.

SPEAKER_06

I just took like I just took like five deep breaths while you were talking. It's so good though, bro. That's something my therapist from a few years ago told me to do when I was feeling stressed out.

SPEAKER_04

Did they tell you just did they warn you about the therapist induced panic attacks that the next person you talked to was gonna cause?

SPEAKER_03

Did they let you know that was gonna happen? No, they didn't know. Okay, okay. Are you letting me know that we're gonna pull you out of that now?

SPEAKER_02

You're about to have seizures, you know what's happening.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, you're gonna lock up right here.

SPEAKER_02

No, I think what you're saying is so good because I think most men do exactly that, bro. We're like, we take we take what life throws at us and we say, Man, this should happen to us. Instead of saying, like, hey, this is just life, and and we can we can navigate this in a more healthy way. But it's never like, nope, I gotta, I gotta take it and grind it down to nothing. I gotta I gotta work until it's gone. I gotta I gotta pretend it's not there, I gotta For the sake of my family.

SPEAKER_04

Like, I that's how I want to support my family by by like, if if I'm not doing well, my family suffers, so I can't. And that's I think just a lie. I think a lot of our wives would really like it if we could just say, like, this week has been really hard, and I'm tired, and I'm just kind of burnt out, and I don't really know what I'm gonna do, and I'm pretty sure we're gonna be okay, but that's just how I'm feeling. Um and then you can be together in that. That's another man, you're hitting all my like main therapy talking points, so we'll just keep rolling. Uh, I think a lot of times when I work with couples, they they don't understand that they can both be in a bad spot at the same time. So if your wife's struggling, you don't have to pretend like you're all good. You just gotta be honest. Like, if you're having a shitty day or a shitty week and things have just been absolutely like a bird is pooping on your head today, like that's what it feels like. Yeah, yeah. You can just be honest about that too, and you guys can be together and like have actually like intimacy grow out of the fact that you're both struggling. Well, I think a lot of times we feel like if we are if to be a supportive partner means that we can't acknowledge that we're not doing well when someone else is. So we'll get into like a fight or an argument or a disagreement, and then we have to pretend like we're fine, or like that it doesn't bother us, or that something that somebody said doesn't affect us, and then we don't ever say anything. And that just builds resentment. Like that's an easy way to like resent your wife or like your parents or anybody that you care about because something bothers you and you're like, yeah, but like I I'm not gonna say that.

unknown

Why?

SPEAKER_04

Because you're afraid that it's gonna push them away from you? You're pushing them away from you by not telling them something that's true about you. They might not receive it well, it might not go as well as you want it to in that moment, but at least there's an opportunity for them to see genuinely how you're feeling and how you're doing. And you deny them that ability to care about that part of you anytime you don't share that.

SPEAKER_02

What you know what I mean? Like, what do I do though? I don't know how to speak now.

SPEAKER_06

Uh Thomas said I was gonna cry. And uh I'm popping my mouth right now because I'm about to start crying.

SPEAKER_03

And that's the answer.

SPEAKER_02

Um you hit on a word, and I'm gonna let you get into it. Was it fuck? No. Nope. It's fear. It's another F word. Because you keep hitting this word like afraid, and I'm fearful, and I'm afraid, and like I realize, at least for me, that's something I just keep out of my vernacular. Like I don't allow those words to be spoken because cause because to me I'm like, nah, I can't be afraid.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Like I gotta, I gotta, uh even if I am afraid, I'm gonna pretend like I'm not until I until I'm not afraid.

SPEAKER_04

Right, until I'm okay. Yeah. Because I I can fake it and get out of it. And like that's true. There are a lot of times that you can. What do you do when you actually are afraid though, and it doesn't go away? Well, you just keep pretending. How's that going?

SPEAKER_02

I'll let you know in a week, bud. We'll we'll see how that happens. Might be calling you crying.

SPEAKER_01

No, I'm afraid.

SPEAKER_04

I mean, I I had a buddy call me yesterday, just uh a situation that was going on in his life, just like, I don't know what's gonna happen. I'm not telling you. But just a buddy telling me, like, I don't know what's gonna happen, and that's stressful. And I'm like, yeah, that is uh a scary thing to not know. And there are so many things in life that you don't know what's gonna happen. And so sorry, we had a buzz ago. Um a lot of times we we don't have any knowledge of what the next day is gonna be like.

SPEAKER_02

Sorry, I think there's a buzz on your I think it's it's it's good enough. We'll figure it out.

SPEAKER_06

Just palm grip, palm grip uh mic like this. Somebody too with uh the XLI there.

SPEAKER_04

There you go, there you go, there you go. It's a little better. We're trying. Now that we're 50 minutes in. That's good, right?

SPEAKER_02

I didn't hear it until then, so maybe.

SPEAKER_03

I think it finally got quiet.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, yeah. It's not recording. Hey, this is recording, right? Yes. We're only nine episodes. I'm gonna let you finish this second. We've done 26 episodes, bro. And they've all been deleted except for nine.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

So this has happened multiple times. Guys. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_03

Are you afraid it's gonna happen again? Oh shit.

SPEAKER_06

Absolutely. Absolutely, I'm afraid. The devil is a liar, bro. And and uh yeah, yeah. That's why that's why we we all restarted this episode four times.

SPEAKER_04

Well, it's cool to know that I'm not ninth but twenty sixth. That's sick.

SPEAKER_02

You're in it, bud.

SPEAKER_04

No, but I I mean uh I feel like a lot of guys do have that struggle of like, I don't want to show people my fear, especially my wife for whatever reason. Like, or my family. Like, I I need to be this solid figure, and if I'm not, then there is going to be chaos within my family structure. Like, I can't speak to you as much about the stuff because I don't know your wife nearly as well as I know Thomas's, but that girl could carry your ass for as long as she needs to if you really needed her to. And she would love you in the middle of that. She could. She absolutely would. And and letting her have the opportunity to do that in the moments where you actually do need it, which are rare but happen, is a way that she can care about you.

SPEAKER_02

I think it's more like she shouldn't have to. You know, and then maybe that's something to me. Like I like I Why do you feel like you have to? But because that's my that's my responsibility as as I'm a man. Okay.

SPEAKER_04

What do you think it means to be a man?

SPEAKER_01

Um gosh.

SPEAKER_06

No, I'm not sure. This is a question we asked. We're supposed to be asking, we're supposed to be asking, what do you think it means to be a dad?

SPEAKER_02

And you can't you can't turn around and say, Who do you think it means to be a therapist? Um, no, honestly, uh ask me the question again.

SPEAKER_04

What do you think it means to be a man?

SPEAKER_02

Um Dang it. Man, that's such a hard question.

SPEAKER_06

Hold up, Thomas. Hold up. Why is your guest interviewing us? It's what I do for a living.

SPEAKER_02

What the hell is this, dude? I get paid to ask questions. He's a massad. No, um I'm joking, I'm joking, I'm joking, I'm joking. I'm joking, I'm joking. I'm joking. Uh our friend Luke just went. I told you. Um no. What it means to be a man, I think, I think a lot of times my illusion of what a man is, is is to carry the weight that my family shouldn't carry. So it carry the the financial stress, to carry the emotional stress, to to guard them from the scary outside world that I'm trying to keep them from seeing. I know, like the deep part of me knows that's not there's a there's a part of that scary world that's good and healthy to to face. But I don't feel I don't feel the urge to to to share that world. I feel the urge to protect everybody.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, I think that makes a lot of sense.

SPEAKER_02

Um That was beautiful, by the way. We should we should put that. That's really good.

SPEAKER_04

Yes, we can. Uh who protects you?

SPEAKER_02

Uh nobody, I'm a man.

SPEAKER_04

Right. That's the problem. So I was with you so far. So far. So far, so good, man. Um we need people to be there for us too. And whether that's like our relationship with God, our relationship with our wives or the people around us, we need people. Um we all do, the same way that everybody else does. Just because you can handle something doesn't mean that you should. And I think that's a that's a real struggle for people too, because where do you draw that line, right?

SPEAKER_02

Um but what do you say to those guys that are that are like, and we're we're going off kilter a little bit, but what do you say to those guys that don't have anybody? Like, like all they have is their kids, maybe. Yeah, like I was that guy for a season, right? You know my story. Yeah, yeah. Like all I had was my kids. So so maybe this is where this person is derived from is like I'm not going to allow this outside like I say that arrogantly, but I'm not I'm gonna do my best not to allow this outside forces and outside world to influence or to direct my my kids. I'm gonna do my best to protect them and and I I don't I don't feel like I had a choice to do that. Sure.

SPEAKER_04

Were they influenced by it anyway? No I I think that the the the problem comes down to the fact that we think we have control over it and we don't. And so it is good to care, and I think that your heart is in a great spot with it, but when you think you have control over it, I think you've lost the plot. Because your kids are gonna watch movies that say things that you don't want them to hear, show things you don't want them to see, and if they don't see it in a movie, they're gonna hear it in school happens earlier and earlier. And so there's not a way to protect them from everything. And it's not to say that you shouldn't be trying to. It's to say that it's not your responsibility in the sense that you can't stop it. You just can't stop it.

SPEAKER_02

And if you can't accept what the hell do you do then, bro? What do you let yourself be afraid?

SPEAKER_04

Nope. I don't like this. I I to answer my own question a little bit, uh, I think what it means the best definition I ever got um of what it means to be a man came from one of my my buddies, and I'll shout him out here. His name's Chase Tomerlin. Um because the realtor? Yeah, no, no, not Chase Giles, Chase Tomerlin. Oh, different guys. One of my buddies in San Antonio. How about Chase? Uh and and he, when I was in like a season where I was really wrestling with like this idea of what it meant to be a man, uh, he was like, you know, man, I thought about that for a long time. Uh, and I'm a pretty sensitive dude, and I think that you are too, and that sucks, because a lot of the world tells us that that's not what it is to be a man. Uh and the best definition that I've come up with so far is that God made me a man. So I don't have to do shit. I already am a man. And every step that I take to try and prove it to myself that I am is a step where I don't believe I already am.

SPEAKER_02

That's good. Dustin, your question, bro. I'm gonna have to listen to you.

SPEAKER_06

He said, uh, Dustin, it's your turn. It's your turn.

SPEAKER_02

Talk about the fire, bro. It's your turn to be on the spot. This is crazy.

SPEAKER_03

Talk about the fire is insane. Yeah, talk about the fire is an insane thing. Hey, talk about your trauma real quick. Now that you now that you like nearly had a panic attack and cried, can you talk about your trauma some more? That's how I could do it in my sessions. I say, hey, now that we've gone through like some soft shit, like let's get into the real stuff that happened with that.

SPEAKER_06

I'm actually gonna test something real quick. Uh oh. Thomas, can you just turn that light off? Okay. I don't think we need it. Just uh just quick interruption if you're listening. Sorry. We do this on at least every episode. That's good. Yeah. We're just gonna turn that off. Because it's uh one of those buttons. Yeah. Well, yeah, yeah. You just slide that button on the top.

SPEAKER_02

The top one?

SPEAKER_06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Slide it?

SPEAKER_06

Slide it.

SPEAKER_02

I'm sliding, bro, and then that's turn it yellow.

SPEAKER_06

Oh my god. The the actual button. Click it. That works. Just you're at zero now. Yeah, that's better. I'm dark as hell now. It's all good. Whatever. We call that uh in the therapy world uh avoidance.

SPEAKER_04

Sorry, I'm done.

SPEAKER_02

That was a beautiful way to deflect. That's the most drastic way to not get me talking about your trauma, bro. I ain't freaking, I just gotta put on the spot. We're about to pull out a couch for you. Go ahead. Go ahead. Do it to you.

SPEAKER_06

Yeah, turn off my studio. And put me in the dark room for that.

SPEAKER_04

You really don't. It's all good.

SPEAKER_06

You do. I'll talk about it. Um you know, we're we're literally talking about Ben just uh owning up and letting out things they need to talk about. And I've been uh and and we're talking about our wives. I literally uh I had to call my wife right after this happened today. Um we've been going through it, so we haven't really had much time to really just talk to each other either. But today, man, uh my boss, he was on vacation for a week. They really didn't see me um last week. Came back today, and I've just been working, dude. I've I've just been working up and carrying the load up and doing what I need to do, what I feel like I need to do for our family. And uh walk into his office and just like I'm just updating him on something and he he's uh he's like shut the And uh He just said uh You okay? Uh and then I I just like immediately uh I immediately just broke down. I just started letting it out. Um I just was like I don't know, dude. I don't I don't even know. Just started breaking down. And um we got some other weird like I work with a lot of young people who just don't understand. And so like there's comments going around and like I'm just being dramatic and just crap like that. Like my bosses gave me a a week off just to like literally they w once I told them what happened, I was like, hi, I'm not gonna be able to be there on Monday, I'll come in Tuesday. And they said, I mean, I've never had people that cared about me so much, bro. Really had. Other than Thomas.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, let's say you asshole right here, bro.

SPEAKER_04

No, man, but uh it's it's cool that you had people that actually listened to you and heard kind of like behind what you were saying what you needed. Yeah. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_06

Yeah. Um, so told I I tell them what happened and then and they're like, We're not even gonna discuss you coming back to work this week. You come back when you feel like you're ready. Um, and so I just took the whole week to last week to just focus on things, help out with my my in-laws whatever we could. But Yeah, dude, my my boss asked me today, you okay? I just broke down. And uh I was about to punch some of these kids that have this thought that I'm being dramatic and stuff. I literally they might listen to this. I'll tell them right now.

SPEAKER_02

I'll punch your little ass in the face, bro. I'll punch you three times. I mean, come talk to me. Come talk to Uncle Thomas a little bit, huh?

SPEAKER_04

So this is an example of uh sadness coming out as anger. Uh not true. It is dramatic.

SPEAKER_06

Yeah. It's extremely dramatic, and I I don't wish any of that on my worst enemies. Out of respect for my father-in-law, I'm probably gonna stop. Yeah, bro, you don't you don't have to continue uh yeah. Probably not gonna continue going into more of that. How are you doing now? I think after because I haven't had the space, I have not had the time to just feel anything. And uh and obviously people who love us and care about us have been asking how we're doing and all that, but when you're just kinda rolling, it's just like I I gave updates to people that I I love. Like, I love everyone, but that I know. Like Thomas got updates, right? When he when he asked for him, Thomas got updates. Um but like Workers and people that I'm just kind of like I interact with just like yeah, it's hell, but we're gonna get through it, you know. Um I still don't I don't know how I'm doing, man. I just don't know. Um I felt a lot today. Um I called my wife right after walking out of his office, and I I just let her know like we're allowed to we're allowed to feel through this because she's been the same way. She's she's the oldest kid. You know, she's older sister, she's got two younger sisters, so she's just been when she needed to let it out, she would go disappear and let it out real quick and come back, you know, and then be there for her sisters. Um it's been a roller coaster, man, like for papa. They lost they lost their grandma recently. It's pretty recent. And so for Papa to be in this pretty pretty soon after and to be like really, really struggling. Um it's been a roller coaster. He's he's great and then he nearly dies, and then he's great, and he nearly dies, great, nearly dies. Um, it's like I think it it's literally like as as someone who believes in Jesus and believes in hope, like I don't know how to tell my wife like how I look at her and say it's gonna be okay. You know, that's that's kind of what I'm really struggling with. It's just uh I don't know what to say. Because I don't like it it's it's just this doctors are saying this, you know, someone they love gonna be released. Then they say, Oh, lost his heartbeat, we're gonna try to get him back, get him back, and then it's just been repeat, you know? And her dad's just really really going through it uh mentally. And that's been I think that's been uh hard for her to watch too. It's hard for me to watch. Um so yeah, all that going on. I haven't had time to feel anything. And today I finally felt it. Circling back what I was trying to say a minute ago. Finally, you know, I called her today and told her we're we're we need to feel like we need to we need to let ourselves feel this too. Um she just kinda let me feel in that moment. She chose to like I could hear her like kind of walking me through what I was also like I I had my moment and she was being strong for me. Um and so I don't know if she's had her moment yet. I really don't if she has she hasn't told me because she's now being strong for me.

SPEAKER_02

She's she's pretty dope now.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. Um grief is weird, man. It uh it doesn't happen on a particular timeline, and I think a lot of people experience what you're talking about where they don't feel for a while. They just don't have capacity or time and I think in a lot of ways that's your brain's way of trying to protect you. Because you're not in a spot where you can handle all the things that have happened at once, so you just kind of get slow leaks here and there, and that's hard, but I'm glad that you were able to talk to her about it some today. And I mean it doesn't have to be okay. I think like what you said is like I I don't know how to tell her that it's gonna be okay because I I don't know where my hope is right now. Like it doesn't have to feel like there is hope right now. We can experience that like feeling hopeless for a time doesn't mean it's never gonna come back, but to pretend like you you're okay or to pretend like you have hope when you don't, I think is way worse. So uh I respect a lot you just being able to say, like, I don't I don't know how to do this right now. That's that's okay, that makes sense. You're not crazy.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06

So dads. If you're husbands. Dads if you're husbands. Dads, if you are husbands. Oh, okay, okay. Uh or men if you are husbands. Boys. Yeah, girlfriends, whatever. Talk to talk to your ladies. Yeah. They uh yeah.

SPEAKER_02

I think I think it's uh that's a beautiful way to ask the final question when you think D.

SPEAKER_06

Uh unless you got more. I can't believe we're already this far in, huh? Yep. Bro, look at look at look at where we were on these notes.

SPEAKER_02

I do we're we we're not even halfway.

SPEAKER_04

How many more questions have you got? Yeah, not even halfway. That feels right. Not even halfway.

SPEAKER_02

But I feel like we do that every episode. We're like we have we we overprepare. Yeah. Here we are. Yeah. But we do ask we do ask a question uh that we ask every every dad that comes on, and it's it's uh it's a pretty deep one. So if you need a minute to think about it, we can edit and go to our sponsor, BetterHelp. Um here's a question. Imagine your daughter is 25 years old listening to this episode. She hears your voice for the first time in years. What's the one thing you want her to know? Your turn.

SPEAKER_06

I just know it's about to be a freaking zinger, bro.

SPEAKER_02

Ghost Ros?

SPEAKER_01

Did you just say Ghost Ros?

SPEAKER_03

I want you to know, kiddo, that George W did nothing wrong. When he said, now watch this drive, I felt something. That's what I wanted to know.

SPEAKER_06

Um we're gonna find her.

SPEAKER_03

We're gonna find him.

SPEAKER_04

Now watch this drive. Just incredible. Um, I think the thing that I would want Ruth to know is that uh her mom and I always want her to feel safe with us. And if there's ever anything that we do or say that takes away from that, we have to know so that we can fix it. And that doesn't mean that we're going to do that right, or that she's gonna be able to do that right away. We don't expect that, but I hope that if there's ever anything that we've done that made her feel like she couldn't talk to us, or couldn't say anything, or just didn't feel comfortable being herself, that she would say it so that we can fix it. Because all I want for that girl is to feel like she's safe with us.

SPEAKER_01

Wow.

SPEAKER_02

Well, we're gonna be living off this one for weeks.

SPEAKER_04

If it saves, right?

SPEAKER_02

If it saves, let's check if we're recording.

SPEAKER_06

That's a great one. Yeah, that's that's that's a good joke, bro. There's been too many, too many times where we've re-recorded.

SPEAKER_02

And uh Honestly, though, part of it I think is like there's something like some of it were like we check beforehand, everything's fine, then we're halfway through, and it kits up and like, eh. Maybe we're doing something right. I don't know. That's the way I'm gonna be uh But James, I can't thank you enough for coming on, brother. I can't thank you enough for being my friend uh slash therapist. I'm not your therapist.

SPEAKER_04

That's against the ACA Code of Ethics 2013. I'm with that right now. I'm not your therapist, I'm not receiving any good advice.

SPEAKER_03

No goods or services were exchanged for me to share any advice. Oh my god, my place is Texas. I'm about to move to Arkansas.

SPEAKER_02

He did not. Hey, you're welcome. You're welcome anytime. Oh brother, it's it's been a dinger. That is that is good. That is really good. Uh, our gift to you is this terrible, terrible. Oh, he's gonna he's gonna do it. Hell yeah, dude.

SPEAKER_04

We're gonna have a horrible time live on camera because this tastes horrible.

SPEAKER_02

Well, I'll do it with you. Holy crap. I'm gonna throw up just doing it. Look at it, get his reaction.

SPEAKER_04

Get his reaction, here we go. It tastes like I hate myself. That's good. Oh, his reaction.

SPEAKER_06

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_02

Throw that away.

SPEAKER_06

Not allowed to show uh labels, but I can talk about it. Do not ever buy, if you're listening or watching, do not ever buy shabby, or maybe not.

SPEAKER_02

We don't know what it is. Don't sue us.

SPEAKER_04

That's really bad.

SPEAKER_05

I mean, it's not even bourbon, bro. It is bourbon.

SPEAKER_03

I've never had alcohol ruin coke. Yeah, it's crazy. Like that with coke was bad.

SPEAKER_02

It made it worse, it made it worse. Bro, I thought coke would help, and it made it literally worse.

SPEAKER_04

It was so bad. It's better straight, which is crazy because it's uh cute music, bro.

SPEAKER_02

Let's get out of here. I'm ready to go home. This is making me sad. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_04

Love you boys. Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_06

Thanks for doing it.

SPEAKER_00

Let's fucking get us in the world.

SPEAKER_05

Fuck that.

SPEAKER_00

Love you guys.