Legacy and Leadership Episode 22 | Dr. Charles Smith, Jr. - Part 2

In Part 2 of this conversation on Legacy and Leadership, David McKeen continues his discussion with Dr. Charles Smith, President of the University of Mobile, diving deeper into leadership in a divided world and what it takes to lead with clarity, conviction, and humility.

Dr. Smith shares practical wisdom on navigating polarization, emphasizing the importance of listening well, seeking to understand others, and leading with calm confidence rather than reaction. He offers a thoughtful perspective on how strong convictions and genuine empathy can coexist, and why both are essential for effective leadership today.

The conversation also explores how growth and experience, including Dr. Smith’s doctoral journey, shaped his leadership through humility and self-awareness. He reflects on the discipline of thinking deeply, the importance of showing up faithfully, and how small, consistent steps often lead to significant impact over time.

David and Dr. Smith also discuss what it means to set “God-sized” goals and the vision behind multiplying leaders who make a difference in their communities, families, and beyond. Dr. Smith shares his passion for helping others recognize their calling and step into leadership with purpose.

This episode is a powerful reminder that leadership is not about having all the answers, but about being willing to take the next step, lead with courage, and invest in others along the way.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Welcome to Legacy and Leadership with David McKean. In my 20 plus years in the business world, I have noticed a common theme amongst all my clients. They're phenomenal leaders who are concerned about leaving a legacy in three main areas: community, family, and financial. So join me as we talk to proven leaders in their fields about their best practices regarding legacy and leadership. It seems from my perspective that our world has become so polarized, right? That that we, you know, that that we have our own views, pick, pick the topic, right? We have our own views and we just pull away from each other and say, this is my view, and this is my view. And and we don't, we don't try to come together or reach, you know, understand people's point of view. How is you of a leader as our world has become more uh polarized? How have you worked to bridge that divide uh in in your career?

SPEAKER_03 1:01

I'm gonna talk out of both sides of my mouth, okay, so we can say that on the front end. I I think one people often ask me, hey, what did grad school do for you? And I think it does different things for different people. But one of the things doing the PhD did for me is it it gave me more humility in approaching any subject.

SPEAKER_00 1:18

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:19

And the old adage of everything looks simple if you get far enough away, right? Closer you get, man, this is really actually complicated. These are real people. I see how they think that. And so I think the first thing I'd want to do is just listen. Um listen, uh, advance goodwill. That's part of the golden rule. How would you want to be created? Advanced goodwill to the other person. Hey, these are smart people with good intentions. Right. Uh, that's not always the case, right? We live in a fallen world, but but it sure does help if you can assume that. And then just actually listen, not pretend to listen so that you get credibility, but like actually listen, seek to understand. You know, we would say as professors, you have you're able to understand their position so well that you could repeat it back to them and they would say, Yeah, that's what I believe. I think only then are you, you know, even if you want to persuade them, especially if you want to start persuade them, you've got to understand. So there's there's some um empathy there. Yeah, and so I think that's helpful. I I think also um one of the ways you make progress is you you actually have to have convictions, you know, about things. And there are things that we should nuance and and gray areas, and then there's a lot that's just really clear and white. Yeah, they're black and white, and doesn't mean you have to be combative or mad, but you can be settled and resolute. And and I would even say the only way you can be calm and lensome is and persuasive is actually you do have settled convictions about things, not mad about it, right? Right. But we believe this is good. And you know, as a Christian, maybe it's something you would say we believe the Lord has spoken here clearly. Right. He says he's not gonna bless another way or another right. And um so I think again, beginning with great intentions, advancing trust, uh you know, empathy has become a you know, for some is a complicated word these days. I think it's a a virtue to say, let me seek to understand where you're at, even if you disagree with you why you're thinking through these things.

SPEAKER_00 3:12

Right.

SPEAKER_03 3:13

I think it's super helpful. Uh you you see leaders that do well, it's still 2026 is just wrought with name a major group, political party, country, global coalition like NATO, they are all struggling. Right. So this is beyond, you know, whatever your version of that is. So it's just challenging, but it's all the more recent uh tangles to slow down, bring the temperature down, build trust, relationships, um, and and see what the Lord will do in that.

SPEAKER_02 3:42

So Yeah, no, that that's extremely helpful. And and I and I want to emphasize a couple of points, but but I think the calmness is the absolute right framework to come to that meeting, that conversation, whatever with. Because if if you're heightened, if your hackles are up, right, yeah, you know, you're gonna be compatible and you're not gonna be open. But but the other part that you said it that I really, really loved is is actively listen.

SPEAKER_03 4:12

That's right.

SPEAKER_02 4:13

Because most of us, and at times I'm guilty of this, are are waiting to talk a hundred percent rather than actively listening.

SPEAKER_03 4:22

Yes, yeah. You may you may agree more than you think if you just listen. And you know, this is true in our marriages, it's true, you know, it's true in in every sphere of life and so. But and and I I'm droning on about this is because I I there are four fingers here pointing back at me. You know, it's easy to easy to talk about these things and harder to harder to embrace them. But I think when we're at our best, I've heard it said that that confidence is calm. Confidence is calm. I love it. And I I think that's true. Uh when I'm most afraid, I'm most angry. Yeah. When I'm most angry and most combative, when I'm most just settled, remember who the Lord is, what his promises are. Um that's a much more fun person to be around. I'm sure that's true of you. And yeah, without a doubt.

SPEAKER_02 5:08

Without a doubt. I want to go back to something you said and spend a few minutes on this subject. You you mentioned how your your PhD in organizational leadership humbled you. Yeah. What why did it humble you?

SPEAKER_03 5:21

Boy, how much time do we have in that? Um, yeah, it humbled me in a lot of ways. I mean, I I think if my elementary school teachers are watching this, they're like, wow. So Charles is leaving the school now. And I and I I I'm not saying it was a terrible student, but I I think it humbled me in some ways because uh, you know, I don't consider myself some great intellectual liminary. Uh I'm I'm I'm an average, I would say I'm a blue-collar professor. Okay. And so it's just hard, you know, and you know this, but you know, I think it's one and a half percent of the US population has that degree. And it's because it's just a lot of people started, it's just just the reading and the writing and all that. It's just training. Grueling. Yeah, it's just grueling. The writing, Nate Bergati, you know, there's a comedian uh that that a lot of people love, and he just talks about books and just there's so many words.

SPEAKER_01 6:10

So many words.

SPEAKER_03 6:11

Just give me a picture. So there are just these classes, there's so many words and just writing, and yeah, and um, yeah, I I think the older I get, that you know, I'm I'm you know, still young, and all those things and thinking through this, but thought, actual thought is pretty rare. You can think about just the next few days. How often have I actively paused and thought about something, not reacted? And so even just learning to reflect on something that's challenging, I think that was uh humbling, but then but then even as you reflect in a discipline like leadership of just your own inadequacies, inadequacies in these things. Man, I just don't do this well. And you're reading all these stories of amazing leaders, and you just go, man, there's a there's a big gap between me and that. And then once it motivates and it presents it, right? You know, it can it can be humbling. And I I think that's good. But yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:04

Yeah. I I I love your I love uh your comment about thought.

SPEAKER_01 7:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:09

We're so busy these days as individuals with technology and social media and cell phones and things like that. And it's amazing to me um the ideas that come to me in the shower or in these in these blank spaces where where I can't do anything but think. That's right. And they're really good ideas sometimes. Yeah, but this was really helpful. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I agree. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 7:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:39

So, so tell, tell me please, a little more about, you know, so so you're 22, 23 years old, and and somebody in in grad school is calling you out as a leader, and then, and then, I mean, my goodness, probably within four or five years, maybe six, you're completing your PhD in organizational leadership. Talk about that that transformation and that and that transition period.

SPEAKER_03 8:04

Man, uh, you know, I don't know how much I've thought about that. I I think um, you know, I think the Lord, you know, the Lord's hand is orchestrating all things. I think looking back, um, I think the growing burden, when I talk about um, you know, vision and leadership and things like that, I think the first step is is what I would call a burden.

unknown 8:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 8:23

You know, vision is like when the burden is refined. Yeah. But burden is just a growing sense of, man, I I want to do something, I want to change something. And I think the growing sense I had in grad school where we were training missionaries and we were we were scattering across the globe to address issues and help things. Um, there was just a growing sense of, man, I want to get in the game. I want to be a part of that.

SPEAKER_00 8:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 8:47

And, you know, as you grow in confidence and knowledge, you go, like, I actually have maybe have something to say. I don't have a lot to say. But so I think those things start happening, and then um, you know, you just show up. So much in life just happens when, hey, I mean, I was an in I t I tell our interns all the time, I was an intern. Uh I was the guy in the call center. And then I, you know, you become a manager in the call center. And and and I think you're just taking the next right step and not perfectly, yeah. You pray humbly saying, Hey, Lord, use me. Um, and you kind of wake up one day and and you know, I think that's a biblical story, right? You just see often, yeah. If you're faithful in a little, and I've perfectly done that, and no one has, but um, I think that's where it came for me is just kind of just being available and the Lord using that. Um, you know, I tell people, this is not everybody's story, but I I've almost never like applied for a job, or you just kind of kept doing the next thing and tried to be a good steward and do more than they asked. Yeah, you know, my dad growing up would say, um, and obviously a lot of parents say this, but do what they ask you to do in a little more. Do what you cheat in a little more. So in every role, if you're an intern, what does it look like to treat this like a bigger role? Dress differently, not to impress, not to brown nose, but just to be a great steward. I mean, the Lord uses that. People notice that, and uh been a lot of grace shown to me, but I think just this it's not as complicated as students often think. Right. And just show up, show up on time, wear about and work hard, and you can you can do a lot. Yeah, the Lord will we'll use that. So so that certainly helped me.

SPEAKER_02 10:26

In a world that that's uh from from my personal humble opinion, lost its decorum. 100% right. That that that that can set you apart goes a long way. Absolutely. So I'd I'd I'd love to ask you um a little bit about your time at Midwestern and and you know it in your bio, it emerged as one of the fastest growing schools in North America. What do you what do you believe brought that on?

SPEAKER_03 10:54

Well, that's a great question. Um, you know, honestly, that there are there are a lot of, in fact, there's a book written about it that people can buy it. I didn't write it. Uh the president of the school wrote it, but it's called Turnaround. Okay. And it's been a best-selling book, yeah. Um, you know, our our little you know, Christian bubble, but um, but it's a fantastic kind of story of what are some of the steps taken. Um, you know, so I was one of the many there, uh, not not a key leader, I don't think, in any way, but what what we saw the Lord do is is just bless, I think bless humility, bless hunger. I mean, we woke up and worked really hard. Um but then I I think at the end of the day, you know, I've heard heard people say, if you can explain it, God didn't do it. And uh I would say two years in, if you had asked me this question, and I I had been honest with you, I would say, well, we did this, we did this, we did this. And there are things we we recruited like crazy. There was a great vision and uh networked and built goodwill and nurtured momentum and you know, all these things. But at the end of the day, a lot of schools were doing that, and and there's just some sort of spiritual math that happened in Kansas City where two plus two equals eight. Wow. And so um, you know, I think that's true. Obviously, we had an amazing leader in Dr. Allen who wrote that book. I mean, just a uniquely gifted, happy, spiritual leader that was just kind of onward and uniquely gifted at being an executive where he's casting vision and those sorts of things, but also in the weeds. I mean, looking, looking at data. I mean, yeah, I remember thinking he knew the enrollment data better than I did as you know, the one responsible for that stuff. And so he was just uniquely gifted. Lord used that. Um, but it was a sweet, sweet time. You know, they went from being a school that that was likely to go out of business um and to to arguably the largest seminary in North America. Wow. Um Over what time period? Over about 10 years. Okay. Um, so just just crazy. So a lot of leadership lessons in that. One of the reasons I'm writing about fear and because you just felt like you were you were kind of attached to a rocket that um, you know, you're trying to control a little bit, but you just don't want to mess up. Yeah. And that was really fun. You know, you learn a lot about yourself, you learn a lot about people, uh, controlling chaos, uh, that has really helped me here in this next stage.

SPEAKER_02 13:18

So yeah, I want to grab on to something that you mentioned, and you mentioned it a little differently. But what I've found, you know, for those of us who are who are believers, for so long in my life, I set goals that were reasonable. Sure. Um, and they were they were goals that were um relatively speaking within reach in my own power.

SPEAKER_00 13:42

Sure, sure.

SPEAKER_02 13:42

And about 18 months ago, I was challenged to to set God-sized goals that that like you talked about at Midwestern, um, that that for that to happen, God was gonna have to show up. That's right.

SPEAKER_03 13:59

You couldn't do it yourself, you couldn't whiteboard that, right? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:02

Yeah, and and and I'm I'm at a point in my life, uh approaching 45, where uh some people and and I don't talk about these things very much because I get these reactions, they just quite frankly think I'm crazy when I talk about some of these things, right? And and and yet at at 45, I'm okay with that. You're right. Yeah. I mean, and and how many other you know, characters, right? And and so I I think that's fascinating. Um as as we draw close to our time, I'd love to understand that, you know, in your bio was was the word uh a desire to multiply kingdom leaders.

SPEAKER_03 14:43

Yeah, yeah, sure.

SPEAKER_02 14:45

What does that mean to you and and how are you going about that in your day-to-day life here at University Mobile?

SPEAKER_03 14:51

And I think I just talked about this at Preview Day, but I think the greatest tragedy, and I I believe this like down to my bones. I believe it's down to my bones. The greatest tragedy in the world in 2026 is not uh what's happening in Ukraine. It's not happening somewhere in Africa, it's not happening in inner city violence, somewhere here in the southeast. I I think it's people that are called to step into those places and use their God-given gift to impact and advance those conversations, uh, whatever God's calling them to do in their career, that aren't even aware of that calling. Uh and that's why I have a bird to just say, hey, you're made in the image of God, you're called to lead. It's just where. It's not if, it's it's where and how. Um, so to me, and that that is the big thing. So when we talk about multiplication, it's looking out and going, hey, the Lord, the Lord right now is is blessing and growing the University of Mobile. I mean, we had record growth wet spot. We are if I tell you the numbers that we are seeing for the fall, really, we won't hit those, but it is just awesome. Something's happening. And so we want to go, okay, if we're gonna be good stewards of that, we have to we have to awaken this growing group of young men and women who are the coming generation and go, hey, you're up, and God has given you the skills and the gifts and the bottling. Uh it's gonna be scary, it's gonna be hard. Uh the Lord has promised anything but his presence and power and promises. Uh, but you're up. And that that's that's what I mean. So we want to not just equip kingdom leaders, we want to have a multiplying effect that even those people embrace. Well, I'm called to do that with someone else. Right. So that truly, you're talking about crazy dreams. The crazy dream is is from right here in uh Mobile County, uh, the Lord would use us and many other people, churches and schools, and um, to awaken a generation, do our part in that, yeah, to what they're called to do, to to enrich our communities to the ends of the world. That that's what we're called to do. So that's the multiplying kingdom leaders. Why do we do it? For God's glory, but importantly for the good of your neighborhood and my neighborhood and the world. So that's what animates us. Man, that fires me up.

SPEAKER_02 16:59

That's that's incredible. That's incredible. So I am, Dr. Smith, I am so grateful for uh your generosity with your time and and your thoughts on leadership. There's a lot of gems in there that that I'm I'm grateful and we'll marinate on, and I'm sure our audiences uh will too. So uh that's it for another uh episode of Legacy and Leadership with David McKean. Please like, share, and subscribe the content. Thank you. I hope you've enjoyed this episode of Legacy and Leadership with David McKean, and you're able to take away at least one nugget that you can implement in your daily life. If you've got questions or ideas for future shows, please feel free to reach out to me. You can call me at 251 648 6461, or you can email me at legacyandleadershipgoal at gmail.com. Please like, share, and subscribe. Thank you.