Legacy and Leadership Episode 24 | Chris Bell - Part 2

In Part 2 of this conversation on Legacy and Leadership, host David McKeen continues his discussion with Pastor Chris Bell, diving deeper into the realities of leadership, writing, and building a life that truly matters.

Chris shares the behind-the-scenes journey of writing his bestselling book Broken Crown—including the challenges of turning ideas into a finished product and the discipline it takes to follow through. From ditch-digging analogies to hard-earned lessons from mentors, this episode is packed with practical wisdom for anyone chasing a vision.

In this episode, you’ll discover:

Why most great ideas never become reality—and how to change that
The real process behind writing a book (it’s not glamorous)
The power of discipline, consistency, and doing the work
Lessons from mentors that shaped Chris’s leadership and writing
How to handle criticism and lead through challenging, polarized times
What it means to stay grounded in your purpose while navigating public leadership

Chris also gives a preview of his upcoming book Green Marriage, sharing why he waited over 20 years to write about marriage—and what he hopes it will accomplish.

Whether you're a leader, creator, or someone striving to make a lasting impact, this episode will challenge and encourage you to keep showing up, keep working, and keep leading with purpose.

👉 If this episode added value, be sure to like, subscribe, and share it with someone who needs to hear it!

#Leadership #Legacy #WritingProcess #ChrisBell #DavidMcKeen #PersonalGrowth #Mentorship

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to Legacy and Leadership. I'm David McKeon. Join me as we talk to leaders in their field regarding their thoughts on leaving a legacy and impact in their families and in their community. You wrote uh your first book in 2019, so just before COVID, uh, and to recap, which was a number one seller on Amazon for six weeks.

SPEAKER_01 0:24

So can can you And it was funny, it was kind of back and forth. So I always want to uh that's great, the publishers do that. It was number one in Christian theology, right? On Kindle. Okay. And so, but it was, it was legit, but we're we're really grateful for that. But uh yeah, I I wrote that book, man, for because I'm a local pastor first, I said I'm gonna write the book for my church. Okay. And if it has any impact beyond that, that's great. But I needed an audience to write to. And so I thought, I'm gonna write to my people. First and foremost, I'm a pastor of Three Circle Church. Right. And so I thought I'm gonna write this book to them. And then if it goes, and it did, thankfully it went far beyond that, had a big impact. And um, but I did, I had them in mind when I was writing that book.

SPEAKER_00 1:09

How long, you know, you you wrote that book, uh it sounds like or at least published it seven years ago. So how long had that been percolating it within you uh prior prior to that?

SPEAKER_01 1:18

That's a great question. I think the the concept, because broken crown is about King Saul. Okay, and so uh I had done a sermon series on him. Funny enough, when I was a kid, I had this picture Bible, and for some reason, well, I think all kids who are Christian kids, when they read the Old Testament, the stories of David and all those guys jump off the pages.

SPEAKER_00 1:38

Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:38

But even as a kid, for some reason King Saul jumped off the page at me. I thought, what an interesting guy. He's the first king of Israel, he's given the first crown of Israel, so to speak. And man, he blows it. I mean, he that's why I called it Broken Crown. He broke the crown that was given to him. But, you know, we all I always think that we give David because David is so easy to talk about, giant killer, you know. I always say he's like Keith Urban by day and an MMA fighter at night because he could write great songs and then he could kill the giant. He's so interesting. And then Samuel was the prophet at that time, and Samuel too is this overpowering figure. And Saul, we just go, he's a screw up, and let's forget about him. But he has literally chapters given him in the Bible. And so I'm like, okay, he's there for a reason. And when I got under the hood of his life, I thought, oh my goodness, this is a treasure chest. He's a warning sign, he's like a red light going off in the Bible, going, if you if you're not careful, this is what your life can look at, look like. And so we started looking, me and my publisher, and we realized we found out that no book had been written on only King Saul in like 60 years. It was the 1930s, it was the last one we could find.

SPEAKER_00 2:47

That's fascinating.

SPEAKER_01 2:47

Yeah, no, they had written on David Saul, but they never gave Saul the dance floor. And we said, okay, let's do that. And so I had done a sermon series on him, and it had this massive impact, in particular on men. And that's a whole nother thing we could get into, but I believe that if I can reach men, I reach the family. Men are the doorway to their families. I really do believe that. It's not minimizing any other of the folks in that house, but uh if I can reach a man, I've I'm his family's coming. And so I was so glad to see that that book impacted men because King Saul was a mess. He had, I mean, he had mental issues, he had anger issues, he had insecurity issues, and he just never dealt with any of them. We all have those same issues, but Saul is a lesson, and here's what happens if you don't deal with it. So that's kind of where the book uh came from. So it percolated for a while.

SPEAKER_00 3:33

I love that. I love that. So so take me back a little bit before that. So so you had you had the Sermon series, you saw that it landed, you saw, and then and then you you talked about talking with a publisher. What what were the steps in between that?

SPEAKER_01 3:47

Yeah, well, we I did the book. I I knew that I wanted to write. I I love, I grew up with a library, my my grandmother worked at the local library. So I've been a bookworm my whole life. As much as I loved athletics and outdoors, I had this kind of nerd side to me too, and I I love to read. And so I always wanted to write a book. It was a dream of mine to be a writer. And so um, the written word was a huge thing for me. So when I when I did the sermon, and and I'd always thought, I'm gonna take one of these sermon series, I'm gonna turn it into a book. That's what I thought. Okay. And then I started trying to turn my sermon series into a book, and it this may surprise you, but what you say on a stage does not always work on a piece of paper. Because on stage, I'm throwing illustrations out, I mean, left and right, but you kind of need to narrow those down to one. So, like my editor kept calling and going, okay, dude, you've got eight illustrations in this chapter. I need you to pick one. And I'm like, what? What? They're read, you know, like, yeah, yeah, you're reading, yeah. And so that's when I realized I literally hit the brakes halfway through the project, and I said, This sermon series was a sermon series. It's a great idea, but I'm doing all this work to take what I said on stage for eight weeks and put it in a book and it's not translating. So I literally hit the brakes and I said, I'm gonna take the idea and I'm gonna write a book. And it's a totally different approach. Got it. And I had guys, for instance, Andy Andrews, very, very famous author from our area, was kind enough to have lunch with me. And uh Andy famously looked at me and said, Hey man, uh writing a book's like dig in a ditch. You get up every day with a shovel and you dig. He was like, Don't, don't, don't wait till you're inspired, don't none of that. Just work. It it's uh that's right, that's um not very glamorous. But that's what I needed to hear. Yeah. Because there's an artist side of me that uh was a musician and a singer and stuff like that. There's that side that you're like, I'm waiting for the inspiration. And Andy was like, No. Because if you do, you'll never write the book. So those two things were huge for me. Stop trying to turn a sermon series into a book, take the idea, that's great, but write the book because it's a different approach. And so there's a succinctness that's needed for the written word to come off the page. Whereas you can ramble a little bit while you're teaching, there's a different, there's an audience right there. You're feeling it. And I just found those they're just two different arenas, for me at least.

SPEAKER_00 6:04

That's fascinating. Like digging ditches.

SPEAKER_01 6:07

Yeah, he also I I remember he told me um, he said, get ready, you'll have to write four really, he said this in a very colorful way. He said, but you'll have to write four bad paragraphs to get a good one. So but he said, but if you never write the bad ones, you don't get the good one. I mean, he had, I mean, I forever will be grateful for that two and a half hour lunch. Andy Andrews is a brilliant man. He's also very kind, wrote The Noticer among many others. But he was so um generous with his time. Yeah. I could tell he really wanted me to succeed. But man, again, mentor, if you if you think about it, he was a three-hour mentor.

unknown 6:44

Right.

SPEAKER_01 6:45

He had been where I was headed, and he could give me information that no one else could give me at that level. And so that's what I needed to hear. I didn't need to hear, oh, great idea on your book. He just blew all that off and said, here's the deal.

SPEAKER_00 6:56

And I and I dig the ditch. Yeah, and I and I'd really like to dig out of that at what I think is a core leadership principle, is that is that we all have these dreams, right, of writing a book in this in this context. And uh the reality is is is uh for that dream to become reality for 99.9% of it, it looks like work, right? And and at times work that you know is digging a ditch and it's not very glamorous, but it's but it's just taking the next step towards that dream. Can you maybe can you maybe talk a little bit about that?

SPEAKER_01 7:30

Well, I I think that what I have found at least, and I warn people about this, I think that what happens is, especially if you're a dreamer, yeah, there's this I these ideas, right? And what happens is we talk about our ideas, and you get almost like an endorphin rush off of the people around you going, that's a great idea. Yeah. And it's almost like don't do that because your your mind, your your whole body just said to you, hey, it's almost like you did that, or you've done nothing yet.

unknown 8:00

Right.

SPEAKER_01 8:01

So what I learned is don't talk about the idea. Go get it done. And then let that endorphin rush happen when you're done with it. Right. And so because it is work, and that is that principle is true of everything. Yeah, what success smells like is hard work. Thankfully, I grew up on a farm where work is just a part of it. But I think that people need to fall in love with the work part of it, the process part of it. Um, and if you don't enjoy that, that's probably not the direction you need to go. Yeah, because it is work. And just like preaching, I tell people all the time that want mentoring and preaching and communicating. Well, here's what I've learned a principle, and hopefully it's true in my life. But anytime you see someone really good at something and they make it look easy, you have no idea the amount of work they've done to make that look easy, right? Whether it's athletics, Tom Brady, all you got to do is read a little bit about his work ethic, right? It looked easy. Well, none of us could go do what he did. Right. And it was years of work. And and and just in my own life, I know if people go, wow, overnight deal, there uh if 30 years is overnight. I mean, I've I have I used to, I've I've spoken in the hardest places ever. My first ever speaking was to a nursing home uh where my youth pastor handed me at 15 years old a hymn book and a Bible, dropped me off at a nursing home. This is how he mentored, and said, they're waiting on you in there.

unknown 9:20

You mean?

SPEAKER_01 9:21

Yeah, I got out of I got out of his hatchback 1992 Honda Civic, and I walked in there, and there were 30 old folks, and they wanted me to lead them in a church service.

SPEAKER_00 9:31

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 9:31

And I opened the Bible to the a scripture of uh John 3 16. Here we go. And I opened the hymn book to Amazing Grace, and I sang, you know, and that he was like, this is what it looks like to communicate.

SPEAKER_00 9:42

Uh so that's fascinating. It's just hard work. That's fascinating. You you mentioned earlier that that uh you you uh have expectations of another book coming out in 2026. Can you maybe share a little bit with us?

SPEAKER_01 9:53

Uh yeah, funny enough, uh to tell you just how hard making book writing and what we do as a church, all the things that you know I've got going, uh irons in the fire, as they say. Um I I had this really idealistic, aspirational goal of writing a book a year.

SPEAKER_00 10:10

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 10:11

It's been six, seven years now, man. Yeah. And I'm coming out with a second one. So just to let everyone know, yes, yeah, uh, it's hard. It's hard to get it done. And I'm an idea guy, so I got a lot of books I want to release, but it's like this is the one we got to finish. And so I'm actually releasing a marriage book. Very, very excited about it. It's called Green Marriage. And uh, we're hoping for a fall release in the middle of finalizing a lot of that right now. But I always said that I didn't want to write, I I don't like when guys are married for like two years and suddenly they can tell the world how to have a great marriage. It's like, dude, you've been married two minutes. You know what I'm saying? I do. So um for me, I always had this rule that I wasn't gonna release a marriage book until I've been married 20 years. Okay. Well, this year my wife and I celebrated 25. Wow. Yeah, 25 years. We went to Hawaii and celebrated our our 25th. And so I feel real good about releasing that book now because at least I've been doing it for a while.

SPEAKER_00 11:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:04

And so I'm really excited about it, though. Uh we we are such believers at our church in marriage and the power of marriage. And I I want marriages to thrive. And so we're uh it's a book telling our story, telling uh yeah, but also telling God's story about what a marriage should be. So we're really excited about that. Hopefully, it helps a lot of couples.

SPEAKER_00 11:26

That's fantastic.

SPEAKER_01 11:27

And uh but I got a little more ditch digging to do before I get it released, right?

SPEAKER_00 11:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:32

My publisher, my editor's like, oh, I gotta keep digging.

SPEAKER_00 11:36

Keep pushing on. Yeah. You know, I I I just hear this desire within you to continue to push forward and to not rest on uh prior accomplishments or experiences or things like that. Where does that come from for you?

SPEAKER_01 11:52

Oh man. Well, now you're dig now you're digging ditches, right? Getting underneath the hood. You know, I think we all have a uh the way God made us. I think we're all very unique. I'm I'm a natural extrovert, all that kind of stuff. I'm curious. There's a curiosity to me. So there's an entrepreneurial side to me. I get bored really fast, so I have to constantly find another hill to climb. And that's why preaching honestly is a great gift to me. I tell people from the artistic side, I get to paint a brand new canvas every week. And some people see that like a lot of communicators that communicate weekly see it as a laborious. Oh, here we go again. An old adage, at least in my world, is as soon as Sunday's over, the next Sunday's looking you right in the face. And but for me, it's a gift. It's a gift to my makeup because I go, uh, let's I get to paint a new one. And so to me, that's a gift. But I think part of it is I man, I grew up uh, I grew up not having a lot. So there's a little bit of that where you're like, I'm gonna, I gotta prove it here. I gotta prove it. I gotta get out there and prove it. And um, so I think there was always some of that. And then on a farm, you know, my my granddad, my dad, they had incredible work ethic. Uh, so I just I just knew life is work and work is actually good. My grandfather never did anything uniquely special with me as far as a let's go have granddad time. Grandad time was digging post holes on the back 40. Let's go bush hog 20 acres. Like, so what he did is he said, come with me while we work.

SPEAKER_00 13:20

Right.

SPEAKER_01 13:21

But he made work fun. So work was not laborious, it was a gift. And then you look in the Bible and and Adam had work to do before the fall. Work, we have seen it as a curse that was a result of the fall. It was not work preceded the fall. So work was a part of God's gift to man. Yeah. And so to me, that's probably part of it. And then I just, man, I only have one life. I really want it to count, and I really love what I do. I really love what I do, and I want to make a difference so I know that that clock is ticking.

SPEAKER_00 13:52

Yeah, and and that shows just in your countenance and the way you talk about these things. Um, you you mentioned your grandfather made work fun. How did he do that?

SPEAKER_01 14:03

Pardo is just him. I mean, he was just a great personality. Uh, last week, a couple of weeks ago, Robert Duvall, who's my favorite actor of all time, died. And Robert Duval famously played Gus McCrae and Lonesome Dove. Lonesome Dove is like the holy grail of literature in Texas. Right. It's their book. And so uh uh Gus McCrae to me is the greatest character ever put on film. And my granddad reminded me a lot of Gus McCrae. Okay. So uh he had a great personality, he was funny, um, man's man. We all the things that you want to do as a man, he did them. And uh, and so it was always like talking, conversation, joking around. It was just this natural. We're out in the South Mississippi, swampy, sweaty heat. Yeah, and I wanted to be with him. Yeah, I wanted to be with him. He somehow he made driving the tractor to the back 40 to work all day an adventure.

unknown 14:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:58

And so um talk the whole time. So I just think for him, he loved to work. He loved it and and made us love it, you know, yeah, mostly. Some days I wanted to do something else.

SPEAKER_00 15:11

Right, right.

SPEAKER_01 15:11

What a legacy. He wouldn't let me fish on Sundays. He had a catfish pond and he wouldn't let me fish on Sundays. I still hold that against him. Can't be perfect, right?

SPEAKER_00 15:21

That's right, that's right. Uh something something that was in your bio that I'd love to spend a few minutes on. Um I want to make sure I get this right. Uh, it said you were uh had an invitation to serve as guest chaplain for the U.S. House of Representatives in Washington, D.C. Uh without getting political, what what was that like for you?

SPEAKER_01 15:40

Oh so another part of me is I'm a history freak. I I I love history. Uh two of my heroes are Winston Churchill and Theodore Roosevelt. If you come in my office, it's like you got that stuff everywhere. There's Churchill and Teddy Roosevelt stuff everywhere. And so I just deeply love history. And in particular, I love American history. I love our country. I think we're the greatest country that's ever existed. I don't even think it's close. And so um, not perfect, but the best country ever. And so I just, I just am endlessly fascinated with history. So the fact that I got invited by the uh our government to come and be a part of that. They had seen what we were doing and some leadership stuff stuff I'd done. And I get this invitation, and I was just number one, honored. Just a massive honor and uh to go to DC and do that. And man, they rolled the red carpet out for my wife and I. And it was an interesting process because everything you say in those official formal environments have to be approved. So my grandkids, my great-great-grandkids will be able to go and see every word I said at the Capitol that day.

SPEAKER_00 16:45

Really?

SPEAKER_01 16:46

Yes, it is forever in the American history archives. I just think that's cool, man. That what a great opportunity. But uh on both sides of the aisle, I was treated with great respect and uh curiosity, wanting to know what we were doing. And uh, because we have our Hope Center here, which we do medical and dental, and and we're helping people, they want to know how are you guys doing that? And and truly, both sides of the aisle were asking these questions. Um, they found out ahead of time that I was a big Teddy Roosevelt fan. So as I'm walking out to that lectern to give my talk and then pray, uh, one of the uh curators looks at me and goes, Hey, just so you know, I mean, right before I walked out, she smiled and she goes, Teddy Roosevelt spoke on that very podium you're about to speak on. Yes. And I knew, okay, they they've all been talking.

SPEAKER_00 17:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:32

And so then they took my wife and I to places uh in DC. Like we saw the room that Lincoln would slip off to, and they left it just like it is. He has a room, uh, had a little fireplace in it. It's still there. And most people don't even know about that. We got to see it. Yeah. And the curator was like, Do you smell that? That's that's do you smell that smoky smell where he built the last fire in that fireplace? Stuff like that. Pretty cool. Yeah. Uh it was it, we just felt so honored, and to be able to have that moment was for me as a history person and an Americana guy. I was blown away.

SPEAKER_00 18:07

If if you had to pick one one thing that you really learned from that experience, what would you say that is?

SPEAKER_01 18:15

Wow, so many. Um I I would say that what you see on the on the TV, we know this is true often, is there's so much of it that's stagecraft, so much of it is playing chess, and we got to make this look a certain way. But at the end of the day, you got flesh and bone people up there, right? And they're not perfect, and there are some bad players, no doubt. Right. But I found I did not have one bad moment while I was there. And I and I and I talked to a cross-section of people, and I found people were at least at very like we may have disagreed on a lot of stuff, right? But they would at least hear me out and and give me the respect of this person, it matters, and we would talk it out. And so I had some really fascinating conversations with people that at least would listen. And so that's what I learned. I learned, okay, just keep in mind there's probably some space between what I see on a TV or what I hear on a radio show and what's actually happening on the ground. Yeah. And uh that was helpful. And then just the the beauty of our country. Yeah, just to see the process. And uh, it is not perfect, obviously. And we're in a very interesting cultural moment. Yeah, and there's battles to be fought, but there always have been. That's the thing. I here's something I think. I think we use the word unprecedented really too much. Yeah, it's not unprecedented. All you gotta do is go back in history and realize it's always been a little crazy. This whole democratic uh process has always been uh a bit of a hypothesis, right? Yeah, and we're we're still working it out.

SPEAKER_00 19:52

Sticky to use a word you used. Messy.

SPEAKER_01 19:54

Yeah, it is messy for sure.

SPEAKER_00 19:56

Right.

SPEAKER_01 19:57

Messy.

SPEAKER_00 19:57

Well, I um it quite honestly, it gives me hope to hear you say that because it it's my from my perspective, both sides have become so polarized. And we seem to, you know, rather than do this, we seem to, you know, almost be pulling a rope each each way, right? And and not to get too far down this rabbit trail, but but the the media benefits from that, right? Absolutely. In another word, when you excuse me, when you said uh unprecedented, uh another word, breaking news, right?

SPEAKER_01 20:26

It's like everything's breaking news, right?

SPEAKER_00 20:28

It's like, come on.

SPEAKER_01 20:29

After a while, it's the boy that cried wolf. Yeah, but you just nailed it, man. And again, I look, I'm a deeply like conservative guy. I mean, totally. I'm I'm I'm uh all cards on the table on that. But I would say on both sides of the political aisle, especially in the media, if you can stir the pot, you can make the money. Yeah, and that is just happening all the time. And so I say I I just I'm amazed at how easily the American public can be manipulated, honestly, emotionally. And I think we're at a time where the difference in, because if you go back and you read about like, I don't know, the election of Thomas Jefferson versus John Adams, right? It was as vitriolic as it is right now, no question, maybe worse in some ways. But they did not have the mass media tools that we have now. Right. So, you know, the Civil War was just as violent as World War II, but the difference is they didn't have atomic bombs.

SPEAKER_00 21:22

Right.

SPEAKER_01 21:22

They didn't have tanks. So the the the death count goes up. So it's the same situation from uh 1798 to today as far as emotions and human nature. The difference is we got these tools now. Right. We have, if you will, the media version of atomic bombs. Yeah, they've got to be able to do that. We've got social media, we've got immediate access, and that exasperates the whole situation.

SPEAKER_00 21:45

How have you handled that as a as a leader who's out in front in public and uh continue to lead with with perhaps uh attacks?

SPEAKER_01 21:53

Yeah, well again, fantastic question. I think that it comes, you know, it kind of comes with the territory. It's like if you're going to play football, you're going to get hit, right? If you don't want to get hit, good football coaches will say, but you don't want to play this game, right? Um, and so leadership by by the nature of it is you stepping forward. And again, in a uh I always again, I want to be careful to not think we have this very unique moment. There's never been one like it. But I do think that it is a vitriolic, very polarizing time. And so um it's a time where culturally the the demand, like people think there's all kinds of versions of truth, maybe more so than ever. And so, of course, I I don't believe that. I believe that there is one truth, and I believe that that it emanates from the living God and his word. And so just me believing that is absolutely offensive to the culture that we're in. And so, yeah, that brings attacks. And then anytime you lead, like when you're trying to do new things, um, you're gonna have critics, you're gonna have detractors, right? And so I've just learned over time to, uh, as a pastor, an old mentor of mine taught me, you need to have the heart of a shepherd, but you better have the skin of a rhinoceros. Meaning you're gonna have to take the shots. They're coming. Don't be surprised by them. And here's what I've always wanna do. I want to have the humility to go, okay, with what I'm being criticized about right now, what can I learn from that? Because I'm not gonna change the fact that people will criticize. It's gonna have the attacks come. I always want to go, what is true about this? Is there any truth in it? Is there anything I can learn at all? Because I don't want to waste it. It hurts to be criticized. So I don't want to waste it. Still to this day. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. And anyone that says it doesn't matter. I mean, I look, I am a human. Right. I'm a human. I like to be liked like anyone else. I want people to believe in what I'm doing. And so now I'm better at it than I used to be, you know. Um, I I love to debate. So that's something I enjoy. So I have to be careful because I love thoughtful debate. What I don't want to do is get scrappy with people, and and people will want to do that, and then it goes personal. I'm like, I don't want to do that. Let's go idea to idea, right? Right. And so um, to me, I love that. But over time I have learned, again, it's my faith, it's my Christian walk, that I have to come back to the Lord and I have to go. Everyone he ever used was vehemently criticized and went through all of that. And so, why would I be any different? And then I have to, you know, the Bible has a lot to say about abiding in Christ, running to him as my shelter. And so when those times come, I want to humble myself and go, did I do anything or say something that caused that? What can I learn from it? And then I want to run back to the shelter of God and go, I am, I am a believer. I this is my shelter, not what people think. Not I'm not gonna get my security from how I'm being received. I'm gonna get it from I I'm doing what God's called me to do. And I think that's what I have to go back to time and time again.

unknown 24:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:52

Well, and and thank you for your honesty and your vulnerability in answering that question that that it's that at times it still does hurt to be attacked. Um, did did that come as a surprise to you as as you began to lead, or or was it something that that you were aware of as an emerging leader?

SPEAKER_01 25:10

You know, I would say I got a lesson early on um in leadership because I was a part of a small church very early in my ministry that grew dramatically, not just because of my leadership, but a team of good leaders. Leadership is powerful, right? But the thing about growth and leadership is that is also a form of change. And people don't like change. And I was blown away that there would be people in a church of all places that would be upset that their church was growing. And I remember it was a hard lesson, but I but it was like I believe the Lord was teaching me, this is what leadership looks like. And I had to learn as a leader that leaders take people where they need to go, not always where they want to go. And that's the hard part right there. But if but if I don't take people where they need to go, and I just take people where they want to go, I need to go sell ice cream because that'll make everybody happy. Uh, but leadership does not always make everyone happy, and so those are hard lessons to learn, but it is a part of it. It just is.

SPEAKER_00 26:18

How do you continue to lead those who are following in in the midst of that? In the midst of the the polarization politically of the exacerbation by by the media, right? How do you keep your eye on the ball and continue to leave things around you amid the the chaos if you get sucked into it?

SPEAKER_01 26:39

And it's easier said than done. I mean, it's a fantastic question because that really is the mission right now. And I see people getting sucked into all kinds of corners of this thing. And uh once again, I always have to ask myself, uh, has this ever happened before? The answer is unequivocally yes. But I do believe that we all have our unique, we're in a unique moment in history. And I I'm not gonna shy away from it. I want to answer the call of the moment I'm in. But I do the the most clear, I always want to go, what's the most clear thing I have in my hand? And the thing that has not gotten muddy at all for me is the gospel, the message of the gospel. No matter what's happened around me politically, um, I, and I have my opinions, and they're strong ones.

SPEAKER_00 27:19

Right.

SPEAKER_01 27:20

Uh I believe in things that would make a lot of people mad. I believe in the New Testament sexual ethic. I believe in there's two genders. I believe all these things. I'm a conservative guy, I'm a Bible guy, unapologetically. But I'm also simple, listen, I'm a I am a citizen of two worlds. I'm a citizen of the United States and a proud one. You walk in my office, you'll see shelves of American history. But I am primarily a citizen of the kingdom of God. And that drives me. That gives me a clarity that you better believe I care and engage in all this stuff. But my number one calling is I am a child of God and I'm a member of the kingdom of God, and that's the kingdom I represent first. And that's what I try to get our people to see. Just because we're in a unique political moment, that does not slam the brakes on what God's doing in his kingdom. And uh, and I'm glad to know that God's kingdom has never uh from the days of Babylon taking over Israel to Jesus looking Pilate in the eye, going, You have no power over me, to this day. Human politics have no bearing on the advancement of the kingdom of God. I'm very grateful for that.

SPEAKER_00 28:28

Yeah. That's that's fantastic. Well, I am, Chris, I am super grateful for you being so generous with your time. And uh quite frankly, in in our area of South Alabama, we're lucky to have a dynamic leader like you that continues to lead our community and give back to the community. So uh thank you for being here today. I sincerely hope you're able to grab a few nuggets from today's conversation that you can implement in your day-to-day life. Uh please know that we are constantly looking to improve our show. So if you have any ideas or suggestions, uh please feel free to send those to us or thank you for watching.