Whiskey n' Walleye Radio Episode #3 with Max Wilson

Here we go! Episode #3. 

This Sunday night at 7 PM Central — Whiskey n’ Walleye Radio is bringing on a BIG one.

Our next guest is Max Wilson.

Not just another tournament angler — one of the most accomplished young sticks in the entire game.

• Youngest NWT Champion ever (won it all at just 21 on Lake of the Woods)
•  8 career wins + 60+ top 10 finishes across NWT, AIM, and MWC
•  Three time MWC Team of the Year
• USA National Predator Team Captain, competing internationally in England & Northern Ireland

This is the kind of guy who doesn’t just catch fish — he figures them out faster than anyone else.

We’re diving into:

• Tournament mindset
• Breaking down new water
• What separates good anglers from elite ones
• And how he’s built a career at such a young age

If you’re serious about walleye fishing… this is one you don’t miss.

Sunday night

7:00 PM Central

LIVE on Whiskey n’ Walleye Radio

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:27

Our guest tonight has quite the resume. Fourteen worldwide wins. Three-time MWC team of the year. He's also the 2018 NWT champion. Last year he wrapped it up with the 2025 NTC Championship. We're going to talk about that, and he's got over 50 top tens. 50 top tens. Mad Max Wilson. Max.

SPEAKER_02 0:49

How's it going, buddy? How's it going?

SPEAKER_01 0:51

Good, good. Welcome to the show, man.

SPEAKER_02 0:53

Hey, thanks for having me. Glad I could get on.

SPEAKER_01 0:55

Hey, look at that backdrop. Good memories. Good memories. Lots of them. It's a lot of time on the water. You know, tonight we're going to go through like kind of timeline, how you got into fishing, a little bit of your upbringing. But obviously, we want to talk about the good stuff, which is the tournament winnings, your life as a tournament fisherman, and kind of what it takes to uh to do it like you do. You know, we talked earlier and you're talking, you know, it's what you do all the time, and every tournament blends into the next one. But let's start uh with your upbringing. Where'd you grow up?

SPEAKER_02 1:29

Uh I grew up down in southeastern Wisconsin, uh, over by like Waukeshaw, Delafield area. Uh I lived lived there until um uh I graduated high school and then I joined joined the mill our Marine Corps right out of high school. Um then when I got home from the Marines, I I moved up to La Myra. Um, and then shortly after I moved over to Campbell Sport where I live now.

SPEAKER_01 1:49

Okay. What was your childhood like? I mean, pretty good childhood. You got siblings?

SPEAKER_02 1:54

Um no. Uh you know, I that's the one thing I always laugh whenever, you know, you always see the the idiotic comments, oh mommy and daddy, all this bullshit that you that you hear. But um, you know, I I had uh interesting childhood. Um, you know, not to get into into it too far, but um, you know, there there was a lot of uh, you know, there was a lot of great things. Like I I have uh you know, I have I have the best mom in the whole wide world. Um, you know, she uh is an absolute saint and uh did everything for me, my sister. And uh, you know, me and my dad, uh we had uh up and down, um, a lot more downs, but uh, you know, there was there was a lot of challenges that uh you know really, really kind of shaped into who I am today. And and a lot of it I I carried um from growing up. You know, there was a lot of really, really, really crappy moments um that uh uh you know I held on to for a long time. And you know, once I started talking about my mental health and stuff like that, um that was where a lot of it stemmed from, you know, was growing up. Um and so that's why I always laugh when everyone's like, oh, mommy and daddy are all this, you know, all the other stupid. I'm sure you'll see it today with the you know my uh biggest fans that are being the comments. But um, you know, it was it, you know, it had its some moments where, you know, somewhat normal. Uh, you know, I grew up sub suburban, um, you know, in suburbia. Um, you know, lived right by my high school, my elementary school. So I had a lot of, you know, a lot of friends in the area. Um, you know, so I just spent a lot of time out of the house uh exploring. Uh and that's where fishing kind of became my uh my sanctuary. Uh, you know, it got me out and about, um, got me doing a lot of, you know, kept me out of trouble, you know, a lot of uh, you know, growing up, you know, uh how do I put this? You know, growing up in in the environment that I found myself into sometimes I I uh I found myself friends with a lot of people that, you know, also struggled at home. And a lot of them took a lot of different life paths uh than me, you know, and uh, you know, fishing kept me out of a lot of the trouble that a lot of my friends from you know growing up found themselves in, you know. So fishing was always kind of that kept me on the on the straight and narrow line. Um and that's that's why fishing became so central to me. It was because that was that was what kept me, you know, kept me going day in, day out when things got really, really tough growing up um and at home. Um you know that that was what got me, you know, got me out of there, kept me, kept my head clear and and you know, kept myself out of trouble.

SPEAKER_01 4:23

Cool. What was your what was your first fishing memory?

SPEAKER_02 4:26

Oh Jesus. You know, I you know, I and like I said, my my dad and I's relationship, uh, you know, it was good in the beginning. Um, and he was kind of the one that kind of got me into fishing. Um later in life, it you know, went a different different path. But uh, you know, there a lot of it would just be, you know, him and I going fishing. Um I I think the earliest one I can I can remember would be up at my grandparents' um uh cabin up in northern Wisconsin. And I would always go down there and I'd be so excited to go fishing. That was the only thing I cared about the entire drive. Like we'd get there, talk to the grandparents, or if we were at my great aunt's resort um up in Minnesota. Like I'd the longest half hour hour of my life was sitting there catching up with family when I'm looking at the lake, wanting to go fishing. And I remember racing down, I I couldn't have been more than five years old, um racing down to the dock, and I'm fishing, and I'm just so excited. I'm catching fish after fish after fish, and it was a it was a tea dock. And uh I was in the left corner, and I'm I'm just so not aware, and I'm casting, I'm flipping over here, I'm flipping over there, flipping here, and I take a step back and I just basically walked off the back of the dock. Um, and I I had a fish on. And I remember falling in um and uh my dad jumped in, got me because I mean it was way over my head. I was you know, I was young, and uh it got me a came up, and all I cared about was was my rod if I still had the fish on, you know. So um that's but that's probably one of the earliest, you know. There was a lot more, you know, if I really think about it, but yeah, there's something like that. Because that was that was like a shock, like, oh my gosh, you know, all of a sudden I'm reeling a fish. Next thing I know, I'm swimming, you know. So it's it's just one of those things. It worked, they work together. Yeah, absolutely, for sure.

SPEAKER_01 6:05

That's what uh, real quick. My my first one was like I was like four or five years old, and my grandpa took me out fishing to this little lake in San Diego County, and I caught like a four-inch bluegill. I mean, it was tiny. But my grandpa was one of those guys from the old school, he grew up poor where they kept everything. So we kept this bluegill, he made it for me. I ate it. That is by far my first you know, fishing memory was eating that tiny little bluegill. But it was also the first fish that I caught on my own. So, you know, a lot of those things just work hand in hand sticking into your mind because there's something else that goes along with it.

SPEAKER_02 6:35

Where where was that at? San Diego County. I guess from California originally then.

SPEAKER_01 6:40

Yeah, I was born in San Diego, lived there for a lot of years. Um, went back after high school and then came back here to South Dakota 16, 17 years ago.

SPEAKER_02 6:48

Yeah, man, I I love San Diego. That's where um uh boot camp for the Marine Corps is right there. MCRD San Diego is right there. And when you land, um that if you look, when you land right on the right, the fence at on the runway where everyone lands, the fence is divides the the airport and MCRD San Diego. So we'd spend like I that's where I did my boot camp, and I just remember watching all those airplanes and stuff like that, and you're right on the water, can't go fishing, you're like, God, I I, you know, always wanted to go fishing down there. It's absolutely beautiful there.

SPEAKER_01 7:17

I'll tell you what, if you got, you know, we've got fish that rip in freshwater, but the the hardest pound for pound fish I've ever caught was a yellowtail. Um, and you know, they it didn't take a big one, you know, 12, 15 pounder would absolutely pin you to the rail on these big boats. I haven't gotten back there to fish for them in a long time, but I just absolutely am like amp to get back there and try to catch one of those things again because they are just awesome. You catch them on surface irons, like six or eight inch pieces of aluminum with a treble hook on the back, and you just reel it in steady retrieve, and that thing is just flipping through the water. Oh, dude, it is awesome. It's awesome.

SPEAKER_02 7:54

That's awesome.

SPEAKER_01 7:54

But yeah, so um, what made you, you know, so you grew up, right? You said you went into the Marines, you got out. What made you transition from you know just fishing as a hobby fisherman, a weekend warrior to I'm gonna do this as a pro? Because you did it really young. I mean, obviously you won you know the NWT championship at what 21 was it?

SPEAKER_02 8:13

Yeah, yep, just turned 21.

SPEAKER_01 8:15

Yeah, so you know, that wasn't like your first tournament. I mean, did you transition from the state, the state level to that level, or what happened there?

SPEAKER_02 8:22

Yeah, so like it all started in my junior year of high school. Um, I've so I was not graced with the uh Sue superior athletic genetics. Um my mom's four foot ten, um, and my dad's like five's ten. So I, you know, I I uh I reached the height that I am right now at uh about seventh grade and then just stopped growing, started growing outwards instead of you know tall. And uh it uh I realized one day after my it would have been my my freshman year of high school, I uh I played football. And it was it was fine. Um, you know, I was playing uh freshman and JV. And uh I was, you know, and I love football. Football was my life, I was a big sports fanatic. Um, but they started to after the season was done, you know, like we finished with our last game, and then Monday, or they were like, all right, boys, this was like a Saturday, and they're like, all right, boys, Monday morning, 5 a.m. off season lifting starts. And I'm like, we just like we went into camp in July or like uh like end of June, July, ran all summer long, all fall, and then now it's hunting season, and you I'm supposed to be in here seven days a week. Like, no, I don't want to do that. And uh so I I was like, you know what, screw that. So I started playing, uh, I picked up rugby and I played rugby for a couple years. Um, and that was that was cool because it was like springtime, whatever, and it wasn't it was like three days a week, all that, and I liked it. Um, well then I uh I kind of stopped playing it a little bit. I I didn't play it as much. Um I uh I had a bunch of concussions. I was a big snowboarder also um before I got big into fishing. I was huge into snowboarding and uh I've always been a daredevil. And so I started getting racking up the concussions, uh, wound up in the hospital for one, uh blacked out for like 12 hours, and the and the doctors basically said, you know, if you if you continue to have concussions like this, like you could die, you know, and um I was like, okay, well, I'm starting to get big, you know, bigger into fishing, liking fishing, all that. And um, it was the I want to say it was the summer of my junior year, and I decided I was like, I was fishing every day at that point. I'd bought a boat, um, I had a 16-foot Mirocraft, and I was I was driving from my house in Wales up to Winnebago seven days a week, and that's an hour and a half drive. Whether or not I like I'd get off a uh I get out of school, I'd drive straight to Winnebago, and I'd fish for three, four hours until I had to drive home, go to bed. Or when I was, you know, I'd get done with work, um, and then I go straight fishing, you know, whatever. So I was still super competitive. And uh I just decided one day I was like, you know what? I always because I always said I wanted to be a professional fisherman. That was like my goal from like as long as I could talk. I wanted to be, you know, like Gary Parsons was my idol growing up. I I did my uh I did my senior uh book report on Gary Parsons where you're supposed to like write a life story about a famous person. I picked Gary Parsons, right? Um and so I decided I wanted to fish a fish a tournament. Um and so I Googled tournaments on Winnebago. And I found uh this was on a Tuesday, and I found a club uh called the Speiggan Walleye Club. And it's uh it's a really awesome grassroots, um, you know, your walleye club. You're you know, it's it's kind of like uh the club tournaments in in southeastern uh South Dakota, you know, it's the same thing. Um and they had one that coming like Saturday. And so I said, you know what, screw it, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna jump in it. And uh I uh I jumped in it. I I remember I pre-fished for one day, um, and I didn't know what I was doing. I mean, I I I was catching fish, you know, fish. I didn't really know what to expect. And I was so excited. I mean, I was like, these guys, all tournament guys were my idols growing up, um, every one of them. And uh, I remember talking to a tournament guy at at the landing, and I was so excited. I'm like, yeah, I'm fishing that tournament this weekend. And he goes, Good luck, you're gonna need it. He was just a total like dick to me. And he's like, Good luck, you're gonna need it. And I'm like, okay. And I'm like talking to him, and I'm like, I was so young, I didn't know. I was like, Yeah, I'm like, there's a lot of fish in the river, like there's some really good ones. I caught some nice ones today. And I'll never forget he told me you'd be an idiot to fish the river. Um, and he goes, You clearly don't know what you're doing. Um, and then he said he was gonna win it up in the northeast corner and win a bag out. And I was just like, All right, like that was just like a disappointing um like first uh interaction, you know. So I went in and fished a tournament out of my my 16-footer, and uh we went to my spot in the river, and uh we ended up taking second and we missed the win by one ounce. Um, I I think we all we weighed, it was a live weight. We weighed 1296 and 12971. So it was like less than an ounce. Like it was like right there, right? Yeah. Well, we're sitting at at Weigh In or whatever, and I'm like, holy cow, like that was so cool, whatever. And they hand me a plaque, um, and I was like, oh my gosh, like I got a trophy. And then they handed me like it was like three or four hundred dollars. Cause I like I think we like we didn't win big fish, but we you know, we won that. And I'm like, oh my god, this is this is incredible. I'm like, I just got you know, I a 17-year-old kid getting paid to fish. I'm like, you can do this, you know. Yeah, and so like I've always had a really addictive personality. Like, if I if I start doing anything, like I get into any hobby, I'm all in. I want to be the best at it, like I don't do anything half-assed, like I want to just like perfect it. And so I just started fishing every single tournament I could. And uh I uh I the next one, and uh, and this is this has shaped me to this day. I will never ever forget this as long as I live. I I dove into research because it was on Green Bay. I'd never fished Green Bay that time of year. I you know, fished in the spring a couple times growing up, um, but I never fished in the summer. And so I'm going online, I'm watching all the YouTube videos, I'm I'm just soaking up all the literature there is, and through my research, I found all these guys um on Green Bay, guides, tournament fishermen, uh, TV personality, because this was back before like YouTube was really a big thing. Um, and so I'm just I'm like, oh my gosh. And so I I crafted this message and I sent it out to like 25 guys. And all it was, I said in the very beginning, I said, I do not want any spots, I'm not asking for spots or anything, but I'm not understanding based off of what I'm reading online because they talk about the mud bite, the gravel, all these different bites. I'm like, how do you determine where these fish are? And like I was trying to understand like how the bay, like how the bay operates, right? And in like um uh like progression, migratory. Because I always seen about spawning and migrating and stuff like that. And so I had these questions, and I so I crafted this really nice, respectful, like, hey, you know, I'm you know, I'm a high schooler, I'm just getting into tournament fishing. Um, you know, I've watched you for you know quite some time, your posts, you seem to know what you're doing. Um, you know, how do you determine this? How do you do this? How do you like just asking basic, you know, basic questions? No, like, hey, where do I go to catch a fish? My cousin, brother-in-law, stepson with one leg once, you know, has never caught a third answer, you know, like it wasn't one of those.

SPEAKER_00 15:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:22

And I'll never forget it. Out of like the 25 guys, half of them, about maybe a little bit less than half, ignored me, which is whatever. Another few told me to F off. A couple more told me blatant lies. Um, like, go, I'll go pull flicker shads at the 40, 41 or the 43 bridge, 10 feet back in 40 feet of water. Like, just wanting to send just just rude, right? And then I quite a few uh told me to quit being lazy and go figure it out for myself uh and and quit being a leech. And I was just like so taken aback by that. Like I was just like, wow, like I thought it was a very nice, respectful message to like people that I you know that I looked up to. And that was like my first taste of the fish, what the fishing industry can be.

SPEAKER_00 16:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:11

Um, and uh, so like I held on to that, right? But there was one there was one person who uh there was one person who responded. I mean, there granted, there was like there was quite a few people, a c a couple people that you know responded that answered my questions that were like very nice. Like Bob Klaus was one of them. The um the uh he was a tournament director of the Sherboy and Walleye Club at the time. He, you know, and there was quite a few of them that gave me, you know, good information, right? And and helped, you know, yunk it out. But there was one guy who um like went above and beyond, and his name was Cam Lewis, and he's a hell of a stick around here. Um, and like he had what it took to fish on the national level. Um, and he uh he he said he goes, I've been watching you. Um I've really been impressed with what you're doing. Um and you know, I I really like what you know what you're doing, and and I really think you can do it. He goes, if you ever need anything, go ahead. And he sends me this big long message of just breaking down what like going super in-depth, right? And I was like, oh my God, thank you. Like that was way more than you know what I asked for, but I I really appreciate it, you know. And so every day during practice, I would go out and I would go fish. Well, then he would call me at the end of the day and break down what I did that day and why I was seeing that, and you know, yeah, just like the full in-depth analysis of what what was happening. And I didn't know what the heck I was doing, so I was so far out over my head, and I'm not catching fish anywhere, and I'm spiraling. I'm like, I spent, you know, five days literally sun up to sundown out there fishing. And he finally goes, he goes, All right, he goes, I'll go out. He goes, I'll I'm gonna go check some stuff, I'll let you know. So he he he hands me this, like, you know, and I'm 16, you barely even know how to run planner boards or anything. He finds this mud trolling bite and he tells me about it, and he goes, I I just really want I'm like, I asked him, I said, Why are you helping me like this much? And I was like, I really appreciate it. Like, you have no idea, no one's ever done this for me, but like I I feel bad. And he goes, No, he goes, he goes, This is what you do when like you help you help good people, you know what I mean? That's the industry needs more of it. And uh we actually ended up taking like ninth or something like that, and that's when I got addicted. So I started, I jumped in, fished a uh an AIM that was back when AIME had the Pro Pro Co, um, their their big tour events. I fished that one as a co. My very first person I ever drew was Gary Parsons, um, which was absolutely mind-blowing. I was like, oh my god. And when Gary Parsons told me that um he he saw he he saw the drive in me to uh and that I could be successful at that, that was like the biggest compliment I could have ever gotten at in my life. So I fished and then I fished the NWT as a co um for two tournaments. I fished uh Escanaba one where shiver like shiver minnow um like jigging came or shivering came like onto the spotlight. I was at that tournament, and then I fished the NWT championship as a co-angler uh on Winabago, my home water, and I took sixth or something like that. Um eighth, or no, something like that. I don't know, the trophies up there, but um I uh it would I took a top 10. They back then they gave you these big like glass trophies, and I was like, that was the most addicting thing I've ever experienced, right? And so that entire first summer, I like I just had absolute luck, right? Like it was I did not know what I was doing, but I was like, I don't think I finished lower than 19th that first summer, and I fished a ton of tournaments, and my head just was doing this, you know. And then this was going into my senior year, and then I graduated early from high school so I could fish because I was leaving for boot camp in June, and I wanted to fish that spring tournament season before I left. So I graduated early from high school. How I don't know because I was not a good student. Um, and I uh so then I I started fishing. I was fishing the MWCs, um, I was fishing the AIMS, all the local stuff. Um, and then I wanted to fish an NWT as a pro before I left. Um, so then I ended up winning my first tournament that April. Uh I won uh an AIM on the Detroit River, which was funny because the day before that one, we fished the MWC out of um uh uh uh St. Clair Shores, and I ran from all the way from St. Clair Shores, not knowing how good the Detroit River was at this point. I didn't know that you caught like 10 pound walleye's out of this thing, so you had to go to Erie. So I ran all the way from St. Clair Shores 87 miles all the way down to uh South Bass down in uh uh southern Lake Erie. And that was the scariest, craziest thing I ever did. And we did that two days in a row and we weighed like 36 and 41 pounds or something like that, and we didn't cash a check, and I was like, that was insane. Yeah, and then we went out and fished the aim the next day, and we went a half mile from the boat launch and caught I think it was like 52 and a half pounds. Um, and I ended up that was my first win, and I was just I was like, oh my gosh, you know, this is incredible. And then I ended up skipping my my senior year of high school or my uh I ended up skipping my graduation. Um I didn't go to my my high school graduation because I fished my first NWT as a pro um on on Leech Lake. So I did that. Then I went to boot camp uh and I was gone for like about a year uh for all the training. I missed the entire half of the 15 season, the first half of the 16 season. I came back, I jumped into everything I could, and that whole year I was gone, I was like, I'm well at Jesus, like you know, like at that young, dumb, like think you know everything, you know. And I'm like, oh my gosh, I can't wait to get back. And then I got back and proceeded to get my head caved in at every event for like two years. And uh I I was I was still working uh um a sales job and then uh yeah and then it was 2016-2017. I sucked. I had one good tournament in 2017 on Erie on the NTC. We were tied for the league going the last day, and then um it just didn't happen, but I I was sucking. I had the worst luck, like stuff would break. Um, this like the craziest stuff would happen to me, and all my friends are like, dude, you have the worst luck of anyone I know. Um, and it wasn't until like 2018 that that uh it started to like come together. Um and that even like that that NWT championship, that was gonna like a lot of people don't know, and I've I've told this story a few times was that was gonna be my last tournament or my last uh NWT because up until that point I cashed one check on the NWT and it was on Winnebago, my home water, and I I just couldn't put it together. I I sucked. And um, I was so demoralized, and I'll never forget it. And it's the only time I I do not get jealous of other people, like I try not to, like, because like there's just too much hatred in the world. Like, I I try and lift others up, right? But I watched Dylan Nussbaum win the Devil's Lake event 50 yards from me, and him and I are the same age, and I wanted to be the youngest to ever win a uh a national wallet tour so bad. Like, that's all I cared about. That's all I wanted. Um, like I had all these goals in my mind that I wanted to do, and um, I watched him win, and I love Dylan. Dylan's like one of the nicest kids, like you can't not like Dylan, but I was so salty because I finished 104th and I was 50 yards away from the guy who won it. And it was the worst tournament I've ever had. Like, I I like stuff broke, like it just was like the the worst thing I could, you know, tournament. And I was so demoralized after that, and I was like, I can't compete on the NWT, I'm not good enough. I'm you know, I just can't do this. And I I I threw myself like a pity party for like an hour, and then I got pissed and I was like, you know what? No, that's not no. Like, so I forced myself to drive the 12 hours home. I drove through the night, I went straight to the boat launch in Green Bay, and I went out and I fished a 12-hour day um on Green Bay. And I told myself, I'm like, you qualified for the championship, you're gonna go fish the championship, and then uh I'm I was gonna take a step back. I was gonna fish the championship, and then I was just gonna fish the MWCs because that's when Isaac and I started, that was when we won our first team of the year. And uh I I was like, okay, I'm just gonna fish Lake of the Woods, and then you know, 2019 and beyond, I'm just gonna take a step back and you know, maybe work my way back. And then uh, you know, then Lake of the Woods happened, and then that was that was all I needed in my mind to tell me because then we won team of the year the next week, and then we won a tournament the week after that back home. Um, and that was all I needed was just the the belief. Because when when you're young, like I was, like I my original what I was you know, the original fans of mine will remember when I was rocking flat brims and I was flat brim nation, like that was my my brand back in the day. And the whole reason why that started was because some idiot decided to comment on my post and tell me I was a flat brim wearing clown who's gonna get murdered by the pros. And another guy told me that my mom deserved to get slapped for raising such a punk kid. And I was like, I was so mad about it. I was like, I am now gonna wear a flat brim every single day just to piss you off. And that was like that, that was like the OG thing. And and when you have so many people telling you you can't do something, you kind of you know that doubt creeps into your mind a little bit. And uh that would that championship was when I was like, okay, I can I can actually do this, and then it was just full steam ahead ever since then.

SPEAKER_01 25:34

Yeah, yeah. I mean, that's uh that's something that obviously, I mean, had you finished anything but the at the top, do you think it would have driven you to keep going, or do you think it took a win to keep your fire lit?

SPEAKER_02 25:44

I think you know, if I would have top 10 it and and to be honest with you, man, like I am one of the most stubborn people you'll ever meet. So would I have actually probably quit? I don't know. I was I was close, I know that, and I really didn't think I could do it. I probably would still be doing like I probably still would fish a couple, but like the whole tour, probably not.

SPEAKER_00 26:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:04

Um, but you know, I I think you know, a good finish there definitely helped me be like, you know, when you're when you're going against like this was back, I mean, he's still a hammer now, nothing's changed, but like that was in the height of Corey Springle winning everything, right? Like that was when Springle was was you know otherworldly, and then you know, you had like Jason Security and all these like top name guys that were just top tening and winning every single event. You're like, I have to go against these guys, like I I don't have what that takes. But then once I started, you know, having success and realizing it's not me versus them, it's me versus the fish, and they're human. Like they're gonna have I think I watched like Springle coming with like one or two fish one time, and I was like, oh my god, like it just was like that, you know what I mean? That of they're human, you know what I mean? And you know, I it was it it opened my eyes and kind of gave me that that confidence because fishing is all about confidence in in my opinion.

SPEAKER_01 26:59

Yeah, yeah, it's like these guys. I saw this thing floating around. There's like different levels of of being a fisherman. There's like, I want to go out and catch a fish, I want to go out and catch a bunch of fish, I want to go out and catch only big fish, and then level four, you know, you revert back to or you go to I want to catch fish on what I want to catch them on. You know, so basically you want to take and you know, say everyone else is throwing jigging wraps and you want to throw a hair jig, but nobody's throwing hair jigs, you don't know if they bite, but you're so driven that you're like, I'm gonna show you that hair jigs will work. You know what I'm saying? Like it's just there's those levels of being a fisherman where if you have that confidence in whatever you're chucking, you know, it you can have good results, right?

SPEAKER_02 27:35

The best advice I ever got in the industry, like ever, was like one of one of my biggest mentors um was Tommy Scarless. And Tommy was so cool because he was like he was a lot like me, right? Like he had that he had that big bright personality. Some people loved him, some people hated him, and he was good. And it, you know, he and he had he wasn't afraid to be himself, right? And and he saw that very early on and he pulled me aside. He was one of the very, very, very first pros that was ever nice to me. Um, and like gave me the time of day, right? And he uh he told me there was a there's a lot of things he told me, but the one he told me, he goes, Max, there's people who the people who fish tournaments, there's people that are there for the fashion show, you know, the guys with the you know, the guys that pay for the wrap boats out of their own pocket, wrap their trucks, got the big stickers and all everything flashiest, and then they go finish like 93rd on Lake Erie. You know, it's like it you you have a lot of you have those, and then you have the people that are there, you know, to to compete. You know, they might have a have a good uh you know, good showing every once in a while. And then there's the people that are there to win, right? And those are the people that they don't care what boat they're in, they don't care what jersey they're wearing, you know, they they don't care, you know, I don't got the biggest flashies, whatever. They're just there to be the best at what they do. And like I've kept that with me, but then also like I like having you know flashy stuff. I don't like people looking at me, I just like having stuff that I like that looks cool and loud and you know awesome and flashy and customized. Like I I've always liked that, right? But like my mindset, like I'm never like I never have this spotless boat. I always say my boat's a working man's boat.

SPEAKER_01 29:16

Like, I like I've seen like on tour level gold, I've seen the inside of your boat, you know, when you're like doing something after a tournament prep and stuff, and I'm like, dang, that thing is is used, you know, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:28

You know, and and that's my thing. Like, you know, and like I've had I've had sponsors, you know, scold me, but I I tell them, I said, look, I A, I'm gonna put your product to the absolute test. But B, like, I am, I am all I care about is, you know, like the the money spends, right? Like money is nice winning money. That's very important, right? Like you need money to to live and do everything. But like at the end of the day, we fish tournaments for that stuff. You know what I mean? Like you you like to sit back and look at your accomplishments, you know. It's not to to put in anyone else's face, it's just for me. It's like I like to look at that, right? So, like that's my only mindset is how can I how can I cash a check? How can I win? You know, I mean, how can I be the absolute best fisherman I can be? Like, that's why, you know, I I don't have a rap every year. I don't have this. You know, it's just like I don't care. You know, you you look at like the live scope setups that these guys have nowadays and all these different mounts and transducers and this, that different graphs, and blah, blah, blah. I've run the same graph for the last four years and one singular transducer. Like, I just put a second deucer for a Koengler just for them to look at something, you know what I mean? Like I like my focus has been just being the best I can, and like I, you know, and that's where I've just tried to be a little different because that's all I care about. I don't care about shooting a YouTube video, nothing. I just want to catch the best and the most amount of fish.

SPEAKER_01 30:49

Yeah, yeah. I mean, per it's personal, you know, accomplishment. Obviously, be MWC's team event, uh NTC's team event, but you know, NWT is is it's just you, right? Like you're just it's personal accomplishment, and you're the one who gets to hoist that trophy. And I mean, at the end of the day, say that you know, you you outfish you know a hundred other guys or whatever's in the field. So that totally makes sense. Um let's break into tournament mindset. What do you so we talked earlier on the phone and it something kind of clicked regarding this question that I had for you? You know, you fish so many tournaments, and like you said, the tournaments kind of just blend into each other. So for you, you can't go, all right, I'm fishing NWT only or MWC and NWT, and you have a two or three-week reset between tournaments, you know, or a month if you're just fishing on NWT or longer. So for you, your mindset has to stay lit up pretty much all the time, right? Like, are you going out pre-fishing, you're trying to find the fish, but then on tournament day, you know, you're using the information that you got, or are you just approaching even pre-fishing like it's a tournament day?

SPEAKER_02 31:54

You know, yes and no. So like my mind, like I'm always playing, I'm always playing chess in my head, right? Like, I'm always kind of like two or three moves ahead, you know, coming up to it. And I'm always kind of like planning for it, right? Like behind the scenes. Like you know, when I went to Europe uh this last fall, I was in bait shops overseas, and I found like I'd find different baits for different tournaments that would that would potentially work in different bodies of water. Like there, I got a lot of different stuff for a Wahee, you know, that I I'm I will be amazed if I don't catch fish on it. You know, I got stuff for like Lake Erie, you know, it's just like those little things where it's not like I'm going to Northern Ireland to get this bait, you know, or I'm going to you know Amsterdam or Latvia or wherever. Like I just happen to be there and it's like, oh, that would be good in that situation, like I'm always looking ahead, that type of situation. But like when I'm coming to the tournament, it it's funny because like I'm I'll keep an eye on things once we start getting about three weeks ahead of time. But like I always tell people if you start worrying about the tournament way too far in advance, you're gonna spile spiral yourself out before you even get there. Like, I I don't even look at the weather, I don't look at fishing reports, I don't like none of that. I don't look at any of that until I'm about you know a couple days before I'm supposed to leave because otherwise, you know, if the forecast is gonna be bad or you know, whatever fishing's bad or whatever, I'm just gonna sit there and panic and be in a you know crap mood before I even get there. Um, so when I get there, and it's funny, like a lot of times, and it drives drives my teammates nuts because they're like, well, what's your plan? You know, like as we're driving there. I'm like, honestly, I don't know what my plan is. I'm just gonna go out fishing and let my like I've I've learned to trust my gut on a lot of things. And like I feel like where I like there's a I always tell people there's a million people out there that are better fishermen than me. Um I'm not the best fisherman in the world, but where I feel like I make my mark and I do really well is my decision making and my like ability to read data and remember data and like process it, where there's a lot of different factors that a lot of people don't pay attention to that I just kind of pick up on. And it'll kind of give me an idea. And a lot of it, you know, and it also it's different too if I've been there before or not. If I go to a brand new body of water, I'll go to something, I'll I'll look at the map as I'm driving out and be like, well, that looks juicy, having no idea if it's juicy or not. I'll be like, well, that looks good, and I'll go fish that. If I um, you know, if I've been there before, then I kind of got an idea, like, you know, and we'll get into it, but like the NTC. Where like where we ended up winning and how we ended up winning was because of my failures at the NWT. Like I had the fish on to win it. Right. I was right there with with Dewey. Like I had the fish to do it. And it's, you know, every tournament's like that. Everyone had that winning fish on. But like I knew what I did wrong. So I I always tell myself, you can I learn more from my failures than I do any of my successes. So, you know, if I had some you know mistake at the last tournament, well, then that's in my mind, and I cannot wait to go back because the first thing I'm gonna do is do the opposite of what I did the last time, you know, and I'm gonna be able to be able to go in that. And that the last two NTCs, we were in contention to win on the final day, and that was from both of them on Erie and on um, you know, uh Francis Case are both times were from my last tournament being there where I messed up, you know what I mean? So um I'll I'll do a lot of that, but it's it's a lot of um kind of going with the you know flow, you know, being prepared, having all the loose ends tied up. So when you get there, then you can look at the data, be like, okay, this is the weather, this is the current fishing report, this is what the lake looks like, this is what I'm seeing, you know, and then okay, and then you pick the spot on the map and then you go from there. And it's just constantly, you know, evolving and what you're learning each day is different, and each hour is kind of different.

SPEAKER_01 35:39

Yeah, no, it totally makes sense. There's uh you can't just go out and try the same thing every time and expect to get consistent results, you know.

SPEAKER_02 35:46

So well, I mean that's the definition of insanity, doing the same thing over and over again, you know, and expecting different results, you know. So it's just learning to learning to learning to adapt and then you know, and that's where I like it. You know, I I'll fish it like a tournament, but I'm also like my number one thing when I get to a body of water, and and Spring always said it too, and that's kind of where I learned it from was when you get to a body of water, my most important thing is I want to catch fish. I don't care where, how I usually the first couple days, I'm not going there for a tournament. I just need to go catch fish. So I'll go to like a community hole or where you know a lot of people are you know, popular area or whatever, and I'll go I'll go stick a few and then I'll learn okay, they're they're eating this, they're eating that, this is the cadence, blah, blah, blah. Okay, now let's go find those steezy little back areas where you know nobody's gonna be, or you know, because you got to get away from the crowd. You cannot, you do not win tournaments being by the crowd. Sure.

SPEAKER_01 36:37

Yeah, absolutely. So you mentioned the NTC um 2025. Let's talk about that. Uh Pickstown, right? Like that was that was gonna be a challenging fishery, right? For that going into that tournament, or did you find that it was gonna be pretty easy? What'd you feel on that?

SPEAKER_02 36:54

Oh, I love I love Pickstown. Like I was I was so excited. I I told Rob I told him I said, we're gonna have so much fun. Like that there's just that's such a like powerhouse fishery for numbers. Like, you know, there's not a ton of giants, it's not like a Wahee. Um, but it you know, it's got a lot of nice fish in it, and it's got a lot of numbers. And when it all started um the first year in uh 2023 when we uh um when we were there for the N NWT, um, you know, we were fishing uh backbass. You know, that was that was a big thing. And that was one of those situations where I got to my Airbnb, um, and and this is in 2323, and we were staying in the the bay that takeoff is out of. And we're right on the water and we're overlooking this like rocky point. And I said to the Airbnb owner, I said, Oh, that looks like a nice little spot. I said, Do you ever catch walleyes there? He goes, Yeah, no, it's a really good spot. I'm like, okay, cool. And so we come out, come out of the ramp, and I'm not the greatest like deep tree fisherman. Like, I it drives me nuts because like it's just so there's so many things that go wrong and they they can be so frustrating that I try and stay away from it. And so I was like, you know what? I'm gonna go check this back bay out. Not knowing that there's a back bay bite. Like I know in the Missouri River they spawn in the back of the bays and they spend a lot of time there early spring, but I don't have I didn't have much experience mid-June. And uh anyways, I go to this spot and I roll in and I start scanning around. I see a couple fish, I throw a white fluke at it. Boom, first fish 22 inch. And I like that was that that sucked with that being my first fish because it's like it's it makes you think like, oh, overs are really easy to catch here. You know what I mean? Like my first cast was a 22-incher. That that's nothing, you know. And so I fished around, kind of got an idea, you know, started to learn it a little bit, but um, I overlooked some things. Well, that spot ended up being the spot that Dewey won off of. Um, and that was the first spot I fished, right? So I was fishing a different part of the lake, doing similar technique, and um day one started out really well. I had uh some really nice unders. Uh, and then I told my cameraman, I said, we're gonna go on 10 on the trolling motor until I see an over, and we're not casting until we see an over. Well, I made it like 10 yards, and I I saw I saw my first over of the week. It was just a big orb. I pitch at it, and it was like a 26 injured, like almost five and a half pounder. And I landed and you like you could hear me like miles away. I was like, What? Oh, you know, I was all pumped. Well, you get two overs and I had one spot left. So I'm like, oh my god, this is like the Cinderella, you know, you know, I got one spot left, you know, let's let's do this, right? Well, I roll into this next. I had a big fish spot, so we roll in the big fish spot, and uh I see this mark, and I'm like, there's no way that's a walleye. Like that's gotta be a uh uh like a carp or something because it was just so big for Francis Case. So I pitched the I pitched the jig wrap on it, and the thing does the walleye swirl, you know, when they when they do this, you know, like they they shark around on on the bait. Well, he did that, and I went, oh my god, it's a walleye. And I popped it once and he just throttled it, and I set the hook, and this thing comes out and comes up, and it is a legit seven to eight pounder, which is a unicorn on Francis Case, absolute unicorn. And uh I'm just about to net it, it's just out of net range for my co and that jig and wrap just comes flying back and sticks into my face. And I lost it because I have like my career, you know, everybody loses a big fish or something. I just have a really, really, really, really good knack of every tournament. I lose at least one. And I was going through a phase back then of I was losing a lot of fish because I was a jig, I was a big jig wrap guy. And you know, you live by the sword, you die by the sword with jig wraps. And I uh I had it cost me so many wins and good finishes, and like I'd been right there, but lost fish are affect me, and that that spiraled me. It spun me out. And uh I was sitting in I was sitting really good after day one with with the weight I had, and that one fish would have put me um if it was seven pounds, it would have put me about six or it would have given me an extra six pounds, and I would have been like two pounds above Dewey. And I so that that pissed, you know, that sucked. Well, I went out and had a good day too, and I I it was like top ten. I think it was 10th or 11th in that one. And that like that weight, that one fish was like the difference, right? So I told myself when we came back, and I'm like, that's gonna be the program. I and I did not go to my big fish. I had a I had found a big fish spot the last day of practice. I went up there, looked at it. I did not run up there for the tournament because it was just bigs, and uh the the unders were terrible. So I played it safer. And I I told Rob, I said, we're gonna go fish my big fish spot and see if it's still going. And I fished for a couple days before we got there. I hit all like um the bay that I stayed in, all the other bays that I kind of fished, and every day I had like 14, 16, 17, 14, you know, like I was consistently up there. And uh uh Rob shows up and I told him I said, All right, we're gonna go check the big fish spot now. And we roll up uh and go to check the you know the big fish area, and in like two hours, two, three hours, we had like 21 pounds and for with a slot with only two overs on Francis Case, that's like an absolute insane bag. Yeah, and I was like, oh my god, this is this is incredible. Like, we're gonna win this tournament. I'm like, this is this is this is insane. And we start uh we start going to run to another spot to go check it, and all of a sudden I came off a plane and my motors just start shaking, and I'm like, no. And I knew exactly what it was because I'd blown a powerhead the year before, and I'm like, I told him I said, I just blew my power head, and he's like, no, no, it's gonna be your prop. I'm like, dude, I'm telling you, I know that feeling. Like, and I was having like weird motor stuff all year. Um, and like I just it was giving me fits last year, and I just was like defeated puppy, and I I immediately like I was pissed for about 30 seconds, and then I was like, Nope. Because like I said, I'm so stubborn, and I immediately just went into like what do we need to do? And this was Saturday before the tournament, and so I immediately call my dealer. I'm like, hey, this is what happened. Am I like I have the best dealer on the face of the earth? Like they are see like the folks at Cedar Lake sales, like they are the they move mountains, right? They're the reason why I'm I'm able to stay on the water. And I call them like, hey, this is what I got going on. My mind immediately went to like the the NWT that I had like right after this. And I was like, I gotta get this part, I gotta get this fixed, I gotta get this going. So while I'm I'm all about efficiency. So I'm like, I need my boat getting fixed while I'm fishing this tournament, you know what I mean? So I immediately call them, get that figured out, and then I first call after that. I call call one of my my best friends. Um, his name's uh Vaughn. And he he travels with with us for the NWTs, he's my uh traveling partner for the MWCs. Um Like genuinely one of the greatest human beings you've ever met. Like the guy would give the shirt off your his back for you. Like when he traveled with us as a co, he was like the MVP of the team. Um and he's got to vex us. And I I call him and I said, Hey, I go, I just blew my motor. And he goes, he and he didn't, I didn't have to ask. He he goes, um, he goes, I'll clean it out, come get it. Like, I didn't even have to ask, nothing, you know. And I'm like, dude, I thank you so much. Like, oh my, you have no idea. I mean, you know, like our boats are babies. Because could you imagine giving it to your your friend that drives crazy fast and is like a wild child, you know, to go ripping a derb? Like fun. And so we we limp and we were 14 miles from the ramp at this point. And so we limp it back. We get back to the ramp. I get on the trailer. My buddy is weighing in for a local tournament. He he tries talking to me. I said, I was like, I can't talk, glue my motor, gotta go home, and I just take off. We drive all the way from Pickstown to my house, which is nine and a half hours. Um, we we drive through the night. I get home about two, three o'clock in the morning, sleep for like three, four hours. I get up, I have my boat at my dealer. Um, by the time uh they open, I immediately go from there, and my buddy Vaughn lives in Bemidji, Minnesota. So I immediately drive from my house in in like south central Wisconsin all the way up to Bemidji, which is eight and a half hours, pick up his boat, and then it was eight and a half hours from his house to Pickstown. So then I we turn in burn, drive down to Pickstown, and we get there, and we were back on the water by by Monday morning. And um we spent spent the rest of the week like I because I told Rob, I was like, we're winning this tournament. Like I don't care what it takes, what happened what happens. And I just missed out on winning the year before. We finished like third. Um, and I like that was one of the last things that and angler of the year are the were the two last things that like I my goals that I had to left to win. And I really, really wanted it, and I'm like, dude, we're doing this, like we have to. And um, so we we f we fish out the rest of the week, and day one, we roll back into the spot, and like the the number one, like the number one most important thing is to get your ring. So, like for these tournaments, what's the coolest part is if you make top 25, you get uh they call it the all-American ring. So that's like one of the coolest things, right? Like it's the only series that that does that, and so the number one goal is to get the ring first, and so I played it kind of conservative on day one, and I kept two like four or four and a half pounders, which are good fish for Francis case. And uh we uh um we come in and I think we're in like seventh or tenth or something. Like we're in the top ten, but it we we're low, we're ways out, and uh you know, we're feeling good. Of course, Dewey's up there, and like, okay, that's it's a Missouri River tournament, you know, it's Dewey. Well day two, so we have a thing, I won't get into it too much, but it's called Family Night on the NWT. And it it's a science at this point, like we've proven it over the last three years with Hunter winning AOI, me and JJ winning tournaments. Like if you have a night with your boys where you're sitting there kicking back some beers, probably staying up a little past your bedtime, you know, the next day, like you may be exhausted, you know what I mean? Like you know, you we we half the time we end up just sitting there BSing about fishing till like 12, 1 o'clock, you know. But we always call it family night. Like instead of going to bed early, or you know, you get usually it's on blow days, like you have a blow day where you can't do anything to sit around, hang out with boys all day. Um, the next day is always legendary, and it's always like your best day of fishing, right? And it's it's crazy, it's a it's a proven fact. Well, we we went out, um, had dinner with everyone, and we ran into like the nitty, uh nitty family and all that, and we ended up sitting there having dinner with them, stayed out a little later at 11. Then we we were all staying by each other, so then we sat around the bonfire until I don't know, one, two o'clock. And uh, you know, so you don't you get zero sleep. Well, then we go out, we have the best day of fishing you could ever have, but I messed up and I kept uh so I caught a seven pounder right away in the morning. Um, and I'm like, oh my gosh. Like that in my mind, I'm like, okay, I'm doing the law of averages, I'm doing the math. I'm like, okay, so like I can get away with a smaller over, you know, that'll average out, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Well, I kept like a three and a half pounder and had really, you know, decent unders. And then I proceeded to catch accidentally six-pounder, six-pounder, seven-pounder, five-pounder. And I'm like, I'm casting at a 19 that's over here, and a random seven-pounder is coming out of the tree and stealing my bait, and I'm like ripping away from it, and it's coming up and eating it. There was one where I there was another competitor behind me that um I I'd seen about a six, seven-pounder right there, and I played a little defense and cast at it and caught it, and just kind of told him, don't do that, and then let him go, you know. That one, that that one I I did accidentally on purpose, but other than that, it was like on accident. Yeah, um, and so I'm just like so mad because I I know I have to take down Dewey Helm, you know, like he is the god, he like he dug that river with a spoon on a summer break. Like that guy just owns the river. Yeah, and um, you know, so you're chase you're chasing him, you know, you know you are. Um, and so I'm just mad. I'm like, I left so much weight on the table. And we're coming, we're coming in on day two, and as we're coming in, all of a sudden, uh, this boat just stops right in front of me and just starts flagging me down. And I I'm like, whoa, what the heck happened? Well, here it was Dewey and um uh Tyson, and it was their motor broke down, and they they needed uh uh a ride in, and they had he gets in the boat, and I'm like, and of course, Dewey's one of my closest friends on tour. I'm like, how big of a bag do you got? He goes, big, and I'm like, Well, sorry, no ride, you know, just screwing with them. And he jumps in and here his bag, he had like an 18-pound bag or something like that, and he jumped me in the standings, and so going into the final day, I'm in second, Dewey's in first, and I gave him a ride in, and I'm like, I told I told Rob, I said, This better be some good fish karma right here. Of course, I'm gonna help him, you know. But I'm like, I think because I gave you know the king of uh the Missouri a ride in, you know, maybe I'll get you know bestowed some good luck or something. Yeah, and uh so then we we had another family night um and we stayed out way too late once again because I was like, the science is sciencing, like you have to, you know, fishermen are superstitious. And so we ended up and it was great because like I got to make a lot of really great new friends because there's one restaurant in Pickstown. It's it's uh this one bar restaurant, and they had like live music. It was it was a great night. And um, there was a lot of the guys that were competing in that tournament that I had never met before that you know were big fans of me, and you know, and and you know, I became friends with like the one guy was a chiropractor, he was giving out like chiropractic adjustments at the tournament at the rules meeting and stuff like that. Like it was just super cool. So, you know, we're sitting there and I'm I'm having beers with these guys talking, getting to know them, making a lot of new friends. And next thing I know, it's you know, again 1 30 in the morning, and I'm like, dude, we gotta go to bed. Like, like we weren't we weren't like messed up, we were just out way too late. I'm like, dude, we need to get some sleep, you know? Yeah, and so we go out and uh you know, we're tired, we're exhausted, you know, and it's 105 degrees each day. This final day was supposed to be 110. So it's you know, you're you're exhausted, you're just you know dehydrated, it's stuffy. And uh we go out and I'm like, dude, we need a miracle today. And I I said I was like, I got my ring, I got you know, I made the top 25. I'm going like you have to go for broke on the final day. And so I told Rob, I said, I am not keeping anything under six pounds. And I we get in, I get in a spot, uh, had another angler come in back by me that um kind of cut me off a little bit. So I was like, had to walk around some some added pressure. Um, and I I found this fish, and I it was a giant, it was one of those like mega mega giants, and I start chasing that pit, I chase it for an hour, and I'm just like, I would not leave her alone. I'm like, I need you really bad, please. And I and she bit twice, I want to say, and I missed her. And I'm just over here like oh, you know, just losing it. And uh I actually had it was really cool. It's the first time I ever had it. I had some fans of mine, um uh the Palmer family, they uh they came and watched me um on the final day. They floated right next to me, you know, and and it was really it was really cool. Well, they're like 40 yards off the side of my boat, and I tell them, like, dude, I am chasing an absolute giant. So like everyone's holding their breath, you know. And uh I uh I pitch at her and it she starts going down. And the only thing I could uh like jig and wraps were the main bait all week. Um, but towards the end of the week, um, they started to eat the jig crawl, which that's my favorite thing in the whole white world. And but the only thing that would eat it were the big fish, the like the unders or the smaller overs wouldn't eat it, it was just the bigs. And so finally, after denying everything forever, I was she starts going down to like you know, go out of my dreams. And so I picked up the jig crawl, and I'm like, I'm just gonna do one little flip. And it was like a half like out of pocket sideways flip. And as I'm dropping down, she just comes up and goes and just annihilates it. And I reeled down, I stepped hooking on like I had that fish to the surface in probably about three seconds. I'm just going, it's like as fast as I could get it, and we we landed it, and I just let out the absolute loudest like let's go you could ever hear. And uh I I boxed it, it was like six and a half something pounds, and uh so then I I'm I'm going and a little bit later, I think I had two at this point, two or three in the box. I go a little bit farther, and I I I picture this fish, it it eats it, and I because I hadn't seen an over in a while. And I'm like starting to get a little nervous. Well, I see this fish, bites, and it's like a 3.8 pounder. And I'm I'm just like, I and I'm sitting here looking, I'm like, okay, I said this is what I was gonna do. Yeah, like and a little backstory to this, I lost Angler of the Year in 2021. Um 21 or 22? The year Dewey won it the first time. I lost Angler of the Year to Dewey because I threw back a 17-inch fish um on the Mississippi River. I was leading going in the final day, and I said nothing under two pounds was getting kept, and I threw back a 191, and that one fish ended up costing me uh nine places, cost me nine points, and I lost Angler of the Year by five points, right? So, like that stuck with me. Like that, like that was the most, and I'll do it ten times out of ten. Like, I made the right choice, it just didn't pan out, but like that's always in the back of your mind. So I catch this 3.8 pounder and I'm like, okay, like this is a good fish, and I'm doing the math. I'm what I like. I I think my big was over seven, actually. It was like a seven and a half pounder, and I'm like, I'm doing the math, and I'm like, I know, like, God, I it's safety over, you know, chance in it. And I always see Dewey doing it, and it never works out for me. And I'm like, and they I I have it on video from the Palmer family, like they were filming me and they're narrating, they're like, Oh my gosh, like, what is he gonna do? And then I'm sitting there and I go, Nope. And I just threw it and I ran back up to the front of the boat, and they're like, Let's go! Like, they're they're pumped. And I probably I I went probably about an hour, and like the whole time I'm just like cussing myself out of like, you stupid, like, god dang it, like you're never gonna catch another walleye again, like you idiot. And it's like 10 o'clock. And I'm like, oh, just you know, just drown yourself right now, you idiot, you know. And all of a sudden I see a mark, and it like it was in a tree, so I like I didn't see it that great. I just knew it was a decent fish. I pitch at it, and the thing just turns and goes and just smokes me. And I get it up and it's like a five and a quarter, five and a half pounder, and I'm like, good enough. And when I landed that, there was like two boats that got in this area that I was kind of working, and I think they uh realized like something was going on, and I'm like, that was a hundred thousand dollar fish I just caught, and I just let out the biggest like let's go. You've I mean, I I lost my voice for days after that, and I'm like, oh my god, like that just happened. And it was after that. Um I I left, I went to another spot where I caught where I played defense the day before, and I I roll back in there, and I needed two unders, like decent unders to up to do it. And I in my mind, I'm like, I have to be perfect, like I gotta, you're you you're taking on you know Goliath when you're trying to take down Dewey Helm, you know? And so it's in the back of my mind, I'm like, I gotta go for it, go for it. I'm throwing back good fish, good fish, and all of a sudden I catch a great one and I I land it. And then all of a sudden, no one to blame but myself, but all of a sudden, um heat like heat strokes starts to set in. Because like I wasn't drinking any water, like I don't drink water when I'm out on the water. I'm tired I'm overtired, you know, dehydrated. And all of a sudden, like I start getting like this in the front of the boat, getting woozy. And Rob in the back, he's like, Are you okay? And I'm like, Yep, nope, I'm good. I'm like, I just he's like, we should go in, you know, if you're not feeling good. I'm like, nope, we need one more. I need one more fish. Yeah, and uh I I saw that fish and I pitched in front of it. Fish comes up, clobber it, and I set the hook, and I kind of like go like that because it's just like I had no strength left, and I reel it in, and it was that last uh under. And uh I just started going like this, like falling forward. Like I was just out, like I don't remember, I was just so like dehydrated and like just passing out from Sunstroke because it was 110, like legit temp 110. And I was like, all right, let's let's go in, Rob. And I I I got in and I got like ice cold water on me drinking, and I'm like, still didn't think I did enough to do it. You know, I mean I thought it was gonna be short. Um, and then you know, Dewey came in and uh he had he had an okay bag, you know, like I think he had like 14 pounds or something of just unders. That guy was on the most insane unders, so if he caught a good one, I was screwed. But then, you know, the the young stud Bo Schilling just came up and put a master class on.

SPEAKER_01 58:39

Like that kid is like that guy's a hammer, huh?

SPEAKER_02 58:42

Dude, absolute stick. Like he and he he pulled in like I want to say he had like 19 pounds that day, and uh he almost caught me, and I was like, and he's such a good like he helped me out so much on a Wahee when I was there earlier, and uh I I told him, I was like, listen, you're 18 years old, you can win a million of these, just let me have this one, please, you know. And uh, so he ended up taking second, you know, to go one, one, two, and three with with you know him and Dewey, and you know, that that was just like that was a really cool moment for me. I mean, that was such a huge moment of my career. Um, because that that was like the award, you know, the title I've been chasing. I've been so close. Um, and then to do it, you know, on a body of water that it was redemption for me. I messed up the last time I was there, you know, and to do it against that class of anglers and to do it with you know, Rob, who's one of my best friends, like that was just that was just such an awesome moment. And that was kind of like my you know, take that, because there was a lot, you know, there's been a lot of big time talkers the last few years, you know, on social media and stuff like that. And I, you know, I'm not the type to get in a war of words on social media. I I let my fishing do the talking, so it was like uh there you go, you know what I mean? Like you can say what you want, but until you can beat me, you can't really talk, you know. And that was that was me just kind of like my response from the last couple years. And you know, there was just so many awesome like behind the scenes storylines there that just just made that that tournament, you know, one I'll never forget.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:09

No, that's awesome, man. The whole story, the pre-fishing, the motor blowing up, you know, all that stuff just leads into that. So that's it's awesome, man. That was a good one. That's why I wanted to cover it, you know, because I knew that you know there was a lot to that tournament. Not that there's not to other tournaments, but that one was uh was big. So so let's fast. So that was last year. Now we go into you know winter of 2025. And you know, I live in Watertown, which you know, and straight north of us is Ortley, which is where JB Snowbear rentals are. Uh Junior, you know, Art is what his name is. He goes by Junior. Junior. Yeah, so I see that you're guiding for those guys for the ice season um with Junior, and then you got what's it like? I gotta ask you, what's it like working with Cole and Gibb? I mean, Cole's a character, man.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:57

Oh man. Cole's just a you know, he's a bully. He's a bully. Um, but we love him, you know. He's he's a special character, you know. He uh no, Cole. I love Cole. He I love messing with him, I love chirping them. Um, you know, they they're hell of a stick, you know. Gibby, he's our little uh special little buddy, you know. He uh he's his own own character, he's got a really hot mom and a hot sister. Um he hates he hates when I tell people that. So don't tell them that he's got a hot mom or hot sister.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:26

Yeah, because you won't see this.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:28

No, no, no. We'll edit this part out. It's not gonna be a thing.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:31

This live the live broadcast, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:34

Yeah, you know, uh I've yeah, but no, it's you know, it's such a group, great group of guys, you know. Like I I travel with with uh uh Jack and Nick, you know, uh both great kids. You know, I've really kind of taken them under my wing and um you know kind of been showing them, you know, the the fishing world, but to hang out with with him, you know, those guys, you know, such great friends, and then you know, uh kept me and my our buddy Kevri um and Cole and Gib and then Dune, it's just such a tight-knit group, you know. It's it's what fishing is all about, you know. Good good buddies.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:06

They're characters, man. That's one thing. Like, so Cole's like he's a character, he's just a character.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:11

Yeah, you get him and Big T together, and he just I'll tell you what, uh Cole is one of the funniest dudes when he wants to be. He's also the honoriest, grumpiest 24-year-old I've ever met. He's he's they are I like if you put a picture of of um Cole and Junior side by side, they're like spitting images of each other like 20 years apart.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:32

Russ, russ he so Russ is in the back. So let's see if Russ can pull up that picture of we got we got one. Look at that. Yeah, dude.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:40

So that's the dream team right there.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:43

The dream team, Cole. They're just rocking, they're just rocking it out.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:47

Number one, number two, you know. Yeah, he's also he cole, but Cole's a really good perch fishman. He catches a lot of really nice perch. Um, he gets mad if you get too close to him when uh he's catching perch because it's hard to get on fish like that.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:00

But dude, yeah. I mean, look at that thing. Who doesn't want a bucket full of those bad boys in the bear? Yeah, he's so serious, too.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:06

Like the slive stalker, we call him. He's just he's on him all the time.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:10

The slive stalker. Oh, that's good. Cole's gonna love this. Oh right on.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:18

So no, it's honestly though, the the to be real with it. I mean, it's junior junior is awesome, man. Like it working for those guys and and working for junior. Um, he he is honestly one of the nicest guys, you know. If if you get him, if you get get him pissed off or something, you know, he he can be a little you know spiky, but um genuine genuinely he is one of the greatest people. He takes care of me, takes care of his guys really, you know, well. And um, you know, it's it's an awesome opportunity. You know, I wish I would have found it earlier in life. Um, but like for me, I have a you know, I have a young family at home, and um, you know, it allows me to go and provide for them. Um, but also, you know, uh, he he always takes care of them too. He's like, anytime I need off, uh, you know, whatever I need for the family, um, he's right there. I mean, he would get literally give the shirt off his back. Like, I've seen that guy, um, and he and he'll never tell the story, but like, you know, this year on Bitter, you see some crazy stuff on Bitter, and uh, we had one of those crazy South Dakota storms. Um, and it it it got it was scary. I mean, it was the scariest stuff I ever fished, and it was sub, you know, negative 30, whiteout conditions, 60 mile-an hour winds. I mean, it was dangerous out there, and all the um the uh the uh accesses were buried in and people were getting buried. And Junior was going out in his vehicle to towing people out. There was one group that he drove out onto the lake, and because they called the gas station, they ran out of fuel for their machines and their heaters and generators and all that. And so they're like, we don't know what to do, we can't get the four-wheeler started, this, that, the other. And so Junior went out in the conditions, the terrible conditions, in his own personal rig, went out there, helped these people, brought them diesel, gasoline, all this out of their own uh his own pocket. Um, and then you know, he some people you know will take advantage of that and he still goes out and does it. Um, and he even had, you know, one time where you know he helped someone and he ended up damaging his vehicle, getting them out, smashed up his his truck or whatever, just you know, helping trying to help someone, you know, and it it doesn't matter if he's gonna break something of his own. Like, you know, there was most a couple times where you know we performed, you know, I was there to you know pull some people out of the ice when it went down. If there was someone missing on Bidder, we were out searching for him. Like he cares about people so much, and he does um it's just a great boss to have. Like I've had I've worked for some outfitters that you know, like I've seen both ends. Like I've some of them I've worked with are are awesome, and then some of them you're like, you know, not a great boss. And so when you can find someone like that that's genuine, you know, that's that's just a great, great situation to be in, you know, other other than when Cole gets crabby, but you know, that's that's okay. We we deal with that.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:54

Yeah, I mean, I've worked um so so I work in the car business, full time job, and we've sold uh We've sold Junior and his family a number of cars and every interaction has just been awesome. I mean, he they're just good.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:07

What's that? Have have sell dune some more trucks so the boy the boys have trucks to drive. We want like heated seats and stuff like that for those cold mornings.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:15

We'll get you guys I'll talk to Junior and get you guys along to brand new AT4s.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:18

Heck yeah, dude. I like it.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:21

Nah, so all right. So um real briefly, you know, we're kind of we're we're running long here. That's all right. There's no like time limit on this, but I think we could talk for hours and hours about a lot of this stuff. But 2026, obviously, everybody's talked about the changes on the on the tour for 2027, having to qualify. I mean, there's a multitude of ways of having to qualify. I don't think we really need to go over that because everybody knows. Uh, I mean, obviously, your goal is is more than just qualifying, you know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_02 1:06:47

So I don't even really know because all I know is I need to do good, and if I don't do good, I don't get to fish, you know. I mean, like it's just just I gotta do good.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:56

Yeah, for sure. So, what uh for 20 this year, obviously, full full schedule, right? You just came off yesterday, uh, the you know, the first MB MWC event. Uh, we're able to cash, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:07:08

Yep, got ourselves a plaque.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:10

Yep, yep. That was uh it was challenging. It looked like a lot of people, what it 20 was it, 21 pounds won that or something?

SPEAKER_02 1:07:17

No, it was 26. It was it was crazy. That was what what what the Bodingers did was I've never seen done like that before on that system, and they won by six pounds, which that again never really happens. Um, you know, my teammate took second, and even behind him, like the the people that were doing two different things ran away with it, and then the people that were doing what everyone does, you know, like that third place was so far behind, like it it was such a crazy bite.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:44

Yeah, yeah. I followed it, you know. I was just like, I was watching the way in, I was like, holy cow! I mean, that's there's a lot of really good sticks, you know, that were in that, obviously. And it's it just goes to show you any any tournament, you just don't know it's still fishing at the end of the day, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:07:59

Yeah, I mean, the thing I've always said about Spring Valley is that is, in my opinion, the hardest place in the country to win because the people that that fish um uh that fish that body of water, you know, you're locals. I've never been to a a tournament where the local uh the locals dominate as hard as Spring Valley. You know, you have you know, like the Dalzots that have been fishing it forever, um Jaquettos, you got you know uh Feldot Sander, um the greatest fisherman I've ever met, Joe Perez, like JJ, like all these hammers that that's the only thing they've ever fished their entire life that they have 40. I mean, this tournament's been going on for 45 years. So you had these guys that um have been doing it as long as they have. Um they uh they they know everything that this river is gonna do, right? So to go there and to compete against that type of knowledge, like it, you know, I like I told Jack and Nick, I'm like, you are going to get your face stomped in. I promise you. And you're gonna hate it. It might be the worst bite you've ever seen, but you're gonna learn more in a week here watching other people, talking to other people and doing it than you will anywhere else because it is so technique driven and you have to be spot on the spot, and it's so like out of your realm of what you normally do. It's it's a crazy place, and it's you know, to cash a check there is incredible. I mean, when we won there in in 22 or 21 or whatever year we won, that still to this day is like my favorite accomplishment because that is that is such a hard tournament to win, and not you know, someone you know it it takes a lot of skill and and luck, but skill to to win that tournament.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:38

Yeah, for sure. Which tournament this year are you the most pumped for? Is there one that sticks out?

SPEAKER_02 1:09:44

Um I would say a Wahi, uh Wahi or Bitter. Um I I would I'm pretty excited for Bitter. Um you know, because here here it's also here's the deal. The reason why I'm so excited for Bitter is because so many of those god dang fish came up to my bait this winter and didn't eat or would drive or swim right around me. And I I told them, I said, you just wait until I get a jig and crawler in my hand and I can chase you, I will show you that I I can catch you. Like yeah, I I have a bone to pick with that. Um, and then also Gibby and Cole are fish in that tournament. So I I also would like to because they are a lot better than me at ice fishing, and so I I would like to return the favor, come open water. But I would probably say that or a Wahi, because a Wahi is just incredible. Um, you know, for the side. I caught my PB out there last year. Um, and there's a there's a lot of techniques that I've learned in the last year, um, and that I you know learned over in Europe that I I really think could um play for those big fish. Um, so I'm I'm excited to try that because it's just been something that's been on my mind, whether it works or not, uh just to get out there and try and take second to Dewey Helm will just be it'd be awesome, you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:58

Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of guys that are gonna be in that, you know. But one thing I didn't think about until I talked to this Daryl Peters is now with the changes in the NWT and having to qualify for 27, a lot of the guys out east that maybe would skip this tournament, right, are now gonna have to come fish it. Right.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:14

So well, and it's like what you said too. It's like, you know, you said today this is the only chance I'll have to really fish an NWT for the guys that you know aren't going to be able to go chase qualification now, you know. This is their chance to say I fished, you know, because everyone wants to say, you know, how great would it be to be like, hey, I played in an NFL game. You know, I mean, not saying like, but like in the sport, that NWT is that pinnacle. Yeah. Um, you know, to be able to say that. So a lot of these are gonna have you know a lot of you know, a lot more guys, hopefully.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:43

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I thought I I made the decision to do it before they made the rule changes, but you know, hindsight's always 2020, and I look back and go, I'm sure glad that I am, because again, had I not made the decision, it would have been a forced decision to fish it. And would I have been read you know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_02 1:11:58

Like, yeah, oh absolutely, absolutely. But yeah, that's true. I I like it on one hand, you know. I mean, like I said, I it's gonna sound bad, but like I I I don't follow any of like the posting or anything because there's just so much drama in fishing these days that I don't like it. I I try and keep my my personal life and my work life separate, right? So it's like I just don't follow a lot of it. And when they came out with those changes, it was like I I looked into it, you know, but I I don't follow a lot of the hoopla and people talking about it because I just I'm so sick of it, right? Like it's all I've seen for the last few years is just fishing drama. So it's you know, I'm I'm excited, you know, I'm excited for it. You know, I I I like it. I think it'll I think you know it's gonna trim out a lot of guys. Um, you know, and I I really hope it's not me. I mean I you have to do it, you know. Now you have that you have that, you know, that ultimatum, like, hey, you have to catch them. You cannot just, you know, because sometimes you'll take a layup or like you swing for a grand slam and you know you fall short, and you're like, ah, well, that was a throwaway, whatever, who cares? Now there's there there is actual consequences, you know. And I my thing is always I wanted to be consistent, um, and it's gonna reward the guys that are that are consistent. And then I I think it's gonna help bring the sport to like, you know, it's more of uh, you know, the NWT is something you gotta qualify for. I've always said the MW she mwc should be a feeder system, you know, to to you know, bring in the guys that because that's what I treated the MWC, you know, the aim. You know, I always tell people like aim, uh, SWC, stuff like that. That's your lower, you know, your state run, you know, minor leagues in the in you know, baseball. And then, you know, you get the MWC, you're starting to get like that double A, triple A, you know, and then the NWT, that's major leagues, you know, and just kind of stepping your way up. And I I I like I like to see that.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:47

Yeah, yeah. I mean, it just it absolutely makes sense that you should, you know. I at first I was like, oh, that sucks because I won't be able to fish anything but this, you know, this year. But at the same time, I get it, right? Like it is the best of the best. You should have to qualify. Um it's just gonna, it's just gonna to make big, I think it's gonna make it better. But we'll see. We'll see what happens. Uh all right, any so in closing here, uh you know, any words of wisdom for for anyone out there that's watching that, you know, any tips, anything little that you can you can share that you know you think would help anyone, whether it's mindset or actual on-the-water tips or mindset when you're on the water, anything like that.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:26

You know, for me, like the the thing I've always said is never stop learning, right? Like, I I found myself getting lazy at times because you're like, you know, oh, the only thing they're gonna eat is a chicken crawler. Oh, they're always right here. You know what I mean? Like it always, always be on the hunt to get better, right? No matter what. I don't care. I am I am so competitive and I care how I do, whether it's a a club a club tournament or an NWT, right? Um, the mindset is always, always, always just be locked in, right? Never, ever, ever, ever get up when give up. When it gets tough, you just gotta keep putting your nose to the grindstone and just pushing through, put the work in, right? For me, like I and I think a lot of it's like my military training, you know, you're you're trained in boot camp that details matter, right? Like, and that's how I've always been. Like, I like this it always comes out wrong when I say this, but like if you look at the top-tier guys, like the super uber successful, best walleye fishermen on the planet, Dewey Helms, the John Hoyers, the Corey Springle, Isaac Lockich, you know, um, you know, all these like top-end guys, you know, even going, you know, even further back, like you know, Keith Cavaez, you know, um, you know, uh, there's so many names, right? I my mind's skipping a beat, but like all those older generation of anglers that were there, right? The goats of the sport, they always have this like brain man level attention to detail, right? Like it's like you talk to you know, like Springle or Hoyer, like all those guys, you know, you know, like me and Hoyer and Dewey, we're friends, right? Like I've known them. Springle, you know, he when I first started my career after I won, I got he asked he took me to dinner, and that was super cool. And he started teaching me a lot of the business, but like talking to him, you know, on the fishing level, how analytical he gets, and like that's where I learned a lot of it from, and that's where Isaac and I were great partners back in the day. I mean, we were unstoppable because he like I've never met somebody that goes as in-depth detail, and that like pre-life scope, that's what you had to do to get good, right? Like you had to have every factor figured out, like Corey, you know, always stories of him laying in bed, you know, before a tournament when everyone's out talking, drinking beers, he's looking at current charts and water, you know, water clarity levels, and like on these scientific websites and stuff like that. It's those guys that dive that deep in that are successful. Um, you know, and and never like never be outworked. Like that's basically the biggest thing. You put in the effort, you know, and when you're on the water, always try to figure out the why. It's not you don't need the spots, you don't need the bait. You want to figure out why that fish is doing that and learn the walleye to a scientific level, right? Like know everything about that fish. Um, and then like the last piece, honestly, is I mean, there's a million things I could say, but be yourself in this industry. Like, I'm one of the most hated people. Like, I have more haters than probably anyone, but that's because I absolutely refuse to be anyone but myself. And people either love that, and I have the greatest fan base and the most loyal fan base, and I I love every single one of them, and it's it's huge. But then I also have a group of idiots that I'm sure are in the comments that just want nothing better in life than just to try and tear me down, right? And everybody is going to have that. Everybody successful is going to have an idiot that is jealous, that hasn't done anything with their life, hasn't been successful at all, instead of leveling themselves up, they're gonna try and tear you down. So when when that happens, instead of like you will never see me get into a war, a comment war with someone on social media. I will laughing react at you because you're an idiot, first of all, but I will not waste my time to get into an argument with you because it is not worth the energy. Yeah, the energy is better well spent putting everything you have into fishing. That's why I'm loud and boisterous when I have it. Like I catch a big fish in a tournament, I'm let it out. It's my right back to you. Like, I'm gonna go talk on the water. I'm gonna show you that I am not what you say I am, and that I'm better than you at this, and I'm gonna make myself better. I may not be better yet, but I will be. While you're sitting there on a computer, I'm gonna make myself better. And if more people had that and just didn't listen to the idiots and let themselves tear them down, like, dude, I got to the point in the industry at one point where I was gonna quit. I I I got to I'm I at a point where I can talk about it now. I tried to kill myself because I was convinced after all the death threats, hate, um, vandalism that I had, people showing up to my house, like all this crazy stuff that happened after all the drama. I'm sure the link in the comments, what's his name will post it. Like when all that happened, the amount of stuff I got, I got to a point where I was like, I am better off dead because I've had 70 people message me this. Let's give them what they want, right? I got to that point in my life, and it was realizing that and coming back from that to this day, I will stand my ground and stand my business because I will never let someone try and take that happiness. And people will try and take your happiness and tear you down in the industry, and you have to be stronger than them. You just have to keep keep going, put a positive. You can control what you can control, and you only you are responsible for what you do. You're not responsible, you can't control what other people say or do. You can only control yourself. So, whatever they subtract from the world, you gotta add two times as that. You know what I mean? And that's that's what's got me to this day. Like, will I ever be the most popular? Will I, you know, no, and that's okay. I'm me. I'm me, I'm I like me, and I enjoy fishing. And the day that I I don't enjoy the act of fishing, I despise the industry at times and I despise the game, but I love to accord the fishing, the camaraderie that it brings. And the day I stop enjoying that, that's when I'll quit fishing. But until then, I'm gonna deal with all the idiots, I'm gonna deal with the people that don't want to see me succeed because I want to see me succeed, and then that's that's what drives me. Though the people that are doing that to be the best they can be instead of trying to impress someone, those are the ones that that are successful, you know, in turn in tournaments. Yeah, it's all it's all mindset.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:52

Mindset, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Hey, I think any like high-level athlete that that's what it is. It's between the ears. Uh, the difference between the guys that are really, really good and maybe even the guys that quit. You know, it's just all between the ears. Because you know, everybody at your level is a really good fisherman. They are, but some are just better because they're more focused, and just like you said, they just stay more on their mental game than anything.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:17

So well, and the tournaments come down to that one tiny decision, you know. I mean, you do one thing right that might, you know, you know, oh, I didn't retire my line after you know I ran through that rock. Well, that could have been the eight-pounder that you caught. You know, I mean it's those tiny decisions of mindset and staying sharp and like like you are chasing perfection when you're doing that. The second laziness comes in, that's what kills, right? And that's that's in so many different things in life. And, you know, that's what I learned early on. And that's the guys that are that are successful, those are the ones that are meticulate. You know, I mean, it championships are one in the offseason. It's one right now while you're sitting here listening to a podcast. You could be organizing jigs, checking, you know, hook sharpness, replacing trouble hook, you know, stuff like that that could lead to one more fish come season. You know, it's it's it's uh you know, a full-time job to be great at whatever you want to be. You just have to you just have to put the time in. I didn't start out, I didn't start out who I am. You know what I mean? Like I started out, I didn't know a dang thing. I suck. I still suck. Like I tell myself that every tournament, you suck, you need to get better, right? And it's just it stacks, you know. It didn't it started out with one plaque, right? It one plaque that was like, okay, like let's do that. And then it was just it all stacks up, and you know, eventually it it grows into something that you you never would have thought would be possible.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:38

Yeah, heck yeah, man. Well, we're all excited to watch what happens for you this year, man. Looking forward to meet you. We've never met in person, so I'll be at both of those events that you gotta uh that you're excited to fish. So we'll have to uh we'll have to grab an NAB or something.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:52

Absolutely, man. Uh that would be great. I'm looking forward to it.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:56

Heck yeah. Thanks again for your time, Max.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:58

Absolutely, man. Thanks for having me. I'll talk to you later.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:00

Yeah, we'll talk to you later.

unknown 1:23:01

Bye.