Whiskey n’ Walleye Radio Episode #6 with Gage Gordon

We’re fired up to welcome Gage Gordon to Whiskey n’ Walleye Radio Episode #6.

Gage is one of the hottest sticks in tournament walleye fishing right now and an even better guy off the water. If you’ve been following the National Walleye Tour this season, you already know the name.

- 5th place on Erie
- 4th place on Oahe
- Currently sitting 2nd in Angler of the Year points behind Beau Schilling

The guy is on an absolute run right now.

We’ll be talking tournament strategy, breaking down this incredible season so far, and hearing how he approaches some of the toughest fisheries in the country.

Transcript

0:33

Welcome to the show. Tonight we got Gage Gordon on, uh, someone that I had the pleasure of meeting a couple weeks ago at uh NWT Mobridge. Got to spend a few minutes with him and eat dinner, and he's just a class act and obviously doing what it takes to be uh one of the top dogs on tour right now. So uh we'll bring Gage on. We're gonna learn a little bit about his life, uh what it takes to compete, and just uh, you know, that that's it. Gage, what's up, man? How's it going, Dave? Good, a little bit of technical difficulties there, man. Russ is like, I'm gonna kick myself out so this doesn't mess up. And he's like, click this and this. I'm like, all right, I'll just click away. So here we are, man. Uh glad to have you. Uh, like I was saying, I was real cool meeting you, man. You're a stand-up cat. That's one thing that stuck out to me. I was like, I gotta have this guy on there. And uh, so we're glad to have you and learn more about you and and what it's like in Montana and fishing on on tour. So why don't we bust right into it and just tell us where you grew up, man? Right here in Belgrade, Montana. Um, born and raised here, been here my whole life, and yeah, never been anywhere else. So yeah, it's pretty awesome there. Oh man, it's best place ever. There's just so many opportunities for what we like to do, you know, hunting, fishing, outdoors, um, as well as work for what we do, you know, do run construction business and stuff like that. So no, it's just a good place to be, super pretty, and uh it's not too crowded. So yeah. Where is it? Where is it in relation to like some of the like Billings or Bozeman or anything? I mean, I have no idea what it's like. Boseman. It's basically Bozeman. It's all the Gallatin Valley, yeah. Belgrade, Bozeman. We're like eight miles away technically, but it's kind of just one big, one big city. So it's all connected, just a so it's like a suburban outreach of yeah. Yeah, it's I've been through there. Um it's gorgeous, just like you said. I mean, it's the you couldn't ask for better scenery out here in eastern South Dakota. It's basically cardboard with wind. Um, you know, you get into like the Black Hills and it's cool, but it's not like what you're seeing in the Rockies there. I mean, that's awesome. Um, so you had mentioned before you do a little bit of elk hunting, huh? Oh, yeah, not a little bit, a lot of it. Yeah, I'd say anytime I'm not thinking about fishing, I'm thinking about hunting. Yeah, year round and every fall, you know, try to get as much time off as I can to go hunting and elk hunting, love elk hunting, love all types of hunting, but elk's kind of my specialty, you know, archery elk hunting. It doesn't get any better. And we've got such good opportunities here in the state with tags you can get every year or certain units you can draw and stuff like that, where we just have an endless amount of opportunities and a lot of public land and a lot of beautiful mountains, like you've seen to hunt man. So yeah, it's hard not to. Yeah, that uh I've I've tried it twice uh in Colorado. And the the first time was like 15 years ago. Um, and I had I mean it's bad. Like it's it's just it's a it's rough country compared to what we're used to, and you got to get in deep to get away from everyone else is kind of how we felt. And um, it was like the second, we're down there 10 days, and it was like the second or third day in my right hamstring, which I tore my right hamstring, you know, in college, and for some reason it just hasn't healed upright. But stepping over a log, and all of a sudden my my hammy just starts to go, and I go, Oh, we're like two miles down from the truck, or you know, it's not too far, but it's still far enough with where without a hamstring it would have sucked. So I was eating all kinds of bananas the rest of the trip and hydrating a ton, but um didn't kill one, had one opportunity. But the first like the one thing that I thought of was like, if I kill this 600-pound animal in here, it's just me and one other guy, that's that's when the work's really gonna start. Yeah, that's for sure. It's the real deal. You gotta be you gotta know where you're at, and when you pull the trigger, be prepared for the work that comes with it. Yeah, for sure. That's yeah, it's one of the things I like about it too. I mean, the whole part of it, killing them primarily all public land. And uh, like you said, you gotta get way back in there a lot of times. Yeah, and packing them out isn't fun. Luckily, I got my dad and brother, they're like always there if I kill one. I mean, they'll be there if I need help, no matter where it's at. They might be a little mad at the moment, but yeah, yeah, to help get it out. Yeah, so you hunt whitetail too, or I see some whiteys on the wall behind you. Is that kind of mostly meal deer? Yeah. Okay, is that I think all those are mealies, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Mostly meal deer. Yeah, we do a little bit of mule deer hunting once the elk eggs are filled. It's kind of my brother's forte. He's the big meal deer guy, and he's been killing big bucks since he's 12 years old. So most of those bucks are actually his or my dad's. I've killed a couple nice ones, but not necessarily walm owners. I'm always just too focused on elk, and usually I kill an elk and I start hunting elk with other people and stuff like that. So but one of these days, I think this year I'm gonna try to try to kill a big buck. The other populations aren't as good as they used to be, you know, even just 10 years ago. They've they're really taking a hit. And so you don't see as many mature deer as you used to. So it's a lot harder to dig up a wall hanger like like these guys are, but they're still out there for sure. There's some crankers. Yeah, I'd be happy with any of them. Yeah, we got to get like to the river, basically, where Oahee is before you start seeing mule deer here. Um, the western half of the state has muleys, but uh out here it's just all white tail. You know, there's just some big ones too. Yeah, yeah, there's some big ones. I mean, every year there's some monsters killed, you know. It's uh just it's just crazy how this farm ground and like the lack of population. Um, and I think a lack of hunters really, relatively speaking, leads to bigger deer growing bigger and you know, yeah. But they're hard to kill, man. They are they are absolutely hard to kill. I remember there was one time I I mean I sat like 13 days for one buck, never killed them, and I just thought, man, this is just not 13 straight, but a total, and really wanted to kill that deer. And it was a lesson, a lesson in patience, and you know, really my taste of how hard it is to kill big deer. Yeah, those big old mature bucks are smart. Yeah, they sure are it takes you know, these I watch a lot of these shows, and these guys that get after them and consistently kill big deer just like they're just they're on another level, just like with fishing. I mean, you know, not to jump ahead, but I like fishing a lot and feel like I'm a pretty good fisherman. And then last two weeks ago, I was like, man, like you guys are on another level. Like, it's just it's really one of the things the conversation I had with the buddy after the tournament, I was like, man, these guys are really just good at what they do. So yeah, a lot of time in and just paying attention to everything. Same thing with the big deer, yeah. Attention to detail. Yep, yeah, for sure. So, what do you do for a living? Primarily, primarily construction. Me, my dad, and brother um have a construction company. I've been I've been on a job site ever since I was like four years old, my dad, over the summers and stuff. I worked every summer through school, and he's always like, you know, hard work. If you want something, you're gonna have to work for it. You know, he never never handed us anything in our life. And I mean, obviously helped us out here and there, but for the most part, hard work. So yeah, I've been uh accustomed to a job site for a long time, and it just kind of, you know, I really liked it. I liked the problem solving of it, you know, everything's different every day for the most part. Um there's just a lot to learn in that space. So yeah, like right out of right out of high school, I started running a framing crew. Um and then these last couple of years, I've you know, morphed more into general contracting and overseeing whole projects. And we still self-perform little things here and there because it's still fun to put your bags on and do stuff. But yeah, for the most part, yeah, general contracting and then yeah, when I'm not doing that, I got my real estate license. We do uh recreational land sales, elk hunting, like we were talking about. Um get to go see a lot of really cool elk ranches and help guys out in that aspect, you know, just what the land's capable of, elk wise, and everything like that. It's kind of my specialty. As long as guiding guys too here and there. Um Wayne Owen's dad owns the Montana Hunt Company, and uh I'm a I'm a guide on there, but also help them out, you know, yeah, throughout the fall, little things here and there. So yeah, you stay busy. Oh man, crazy busy. Yeah, how old are you? 29, almost 30. Okay. Yeah, yeah. No, that's awesome that you're staying busy like that. That uh that land business over there has got to be just I mean, is it super competitive? Do you feel? Or is it, I mean, is like do pieces come up often enough to keep enough agents busy or or oh yeah? Yeah, they do, yeah. And guys realize more and more what their lands were, especially because they've got the recreational value in it. Um so you know, an old cattle farmer that's sitting on a gold mine, a lot of them are getting ready to cash out because you you can make a lot more money that way than than working your cattle. But no, they these guys buy them and sell them enough to where there's usually a constant flow coming around, you know, buy them, improve them, sell them, or they get bored with one and they want to get a bigger one or whatever, you know. Yeah. But yeah, there's a lot, it's competitive. More and more guys are getting into the elk, which is primarily what we do, and you know, how to improve your habitat for elk. Sure. Yeah, no, that's awesome. That's awesome. So, what do you what got you into walleye? I mean, is fishing, hunting are kind of synonymous, right? Like if you fish, you usually hunt. If you hunt, you well, if you hunt, you usually fish, I should say. A lot of people fish. Uh do we look in walleye country there or what? I mean, we are, but we aren't where I'm at exactly in Bozeman is I mean, our closest walleye lake is Canyon Ferry, it's like an hour away, but it's like nothing. There's so few big fish in there anymore that it's tough to like get excited to go fish it. Yeah, there's a ton of small 12 to 15 inch fish, and they're starting to come back a little bit. You'll see more of those 18, 19s, and you always have the chance at a at a mega giant, but you know, as far as like the fishing like we like to do, live scoping and stuff like that, it can be beating your head against the wall if it's not the perfect time. Yeah. Um, but as far as walleye fishing in general, man, I've just loved fishing ever since I was like little. I just had a weird bug for it, like an obsession. I'd be like three years old, you know, scooping my hand in the fish tank, like trying to catch them. Or, you know, my dad started taking me when I was three years old ice fishing, and I'd yeah, I'd go get an ice fishing pole from the garage and try fishing in our fish tank when mom wasn't looking and she'd come around the corner and yell at me, and I have water everywhere. But I'd say I've just yeah, I've I've really had a thing for fishing and the outdoors ever since I was little. So yeah. Um, as far as getting into walleye fishing, you know, I towards the end of high school had some buddies starting to get into it, and my friends, you know, they had friends of friends that were doing it, and it's like they're like, dude, it's it's pretty cool because it's kind of like hunting. They're like, you would like it. You know, you're like hunting down certain fish, and there's a lot to it. So I went with them a couple times, and I'm like, yeah, like this is awesome. You know, there's just so much to learn. I love learning every little aspect and putting, you know, all the pieces of the puzzle together. So when I was 18, there's like a decent boat that came up for sale at Towns and Marine. He's a really good boat dealer here um in the area. And there's like uh 18-foot London pack or something. I was like, ooh, that thing's sweet, you know. Like, like I get out some big water with that. Then I'm like, you know, I was talking to my parents about it, and I was just like, man, this boat's cool, you know. But I could probably like, I don't know, if I could get a loan or something. Like that's like, screw it, try it. Just go up there, fill out the application because I was 18, you know, hardly any credit. I did get I did have a truck um and a couple credit cards, but not for long. But, anyways, I'm like, all right, whatever. Go up to Towns and Moraine and put in my my app, and they're like, Yeah, you're approved, you know, it's like $240 a month. I'm like, hell yeah. Yeah, that's like now we're off, we're off to the races, and it really was. I think once I got that boat, there wasn't a weekend that I didn't go fishing for like the first two years. Yeah, it was crazy. Yeah, I think we all started like I started with a a London also, it was like a 96, 1600 Explorer side console with the 90 Merc on it, or that's exactly what it was. That was like my first boat, and I took such good care of that boat where I was like, This is my it was like a six thousand dollar boat, you know. Like, yeah, and it's your pride and joy. Oh man, I was like buffing the paint and waxing it, and like but I mean, you know, that was that was probably I don't know, 12-15 years ago. So I don't know, it was it was a while ago, and I think that like taking care of that boat taught me how to take care of nicer boats, you know. Just or maybe just no knowing that I had pride in a boat like that would has led to taking care of these nice because they don't give these damn things away, man. That's crazy. Like so you're now you're a ranger guy now, huh? Yeah, ranger, funny story. Uh it I've I've had a ranger for a while. I had one back in like 2020 or something. I had one for four or five years, and then um ended up selling it, then just hopped in with buddies for like a year or two, and then uh we were actually at the South Dakota Governor's Cup. And uh it was like day one, the morning at takeoff, and we're pretty good friends with Hoyer. He comes out hunting and stuff, and it was right after uh he had won Erie earlier that year. He's like, Bro, like I got a boat, you want to buy it? And I'm like, actually, I think I do. So it's the boat that he won um at Erie in 24, and that's the one I'm running now. Okay, cool. Yeah, I really like the Rangers. You've been in a lot of them and just fit and finish everything. I mean, yeah, just the way they lay out and fish is is nice, but any all all these boats anymore are are awesome. Yeah, they are. I mean, that's one thing I we got, you know. I've seen a lot of rangers, a lot of Vexis, a lot of Luns, and you know, having in and nitros and yark, all of them, right? And you look at all of them, they all have, I mean, their appeal, right? Like they all have they're all a little different. They all do the same thing. I mean, look at that, look at what how the weather was two weeks ago, and you know, every single boat was out there still fishing. You know, you look at the top 10, and there was a mix of a bunch of different boats there, you know, that probably primarily rangers, but I think that absolutely cool. So, what got you into tournament fishing then? So you you got the bug for walleye, your late teens, and then now you now you're like full-time NWT. Last year you had a pretty good year, too, didn't you? You have a couple top tens, or yeah, yeah, it took second at um here on. Yeah, I was only able to fish three last year. Yeah, got a second. That was like first time on the Great Lakes, first time at a true like live scope NWT for me. Well, you know, the Mississippi and Sharp, you could have live scope there, but it wasn't, you know, we didn't find that bite or anything like that. So um, and then I'd done some in back in 21 where I was like just getting started. I think I did one on Oahee in 21, and I put live scope on my boat like three days before the Awahi one. So trying to learn it on that tournament, yeah. Which which was fine. I just was fishing the wrong areas for big fish in that one. I've always done okay, I've never finished worse than like 55th or something like that. Um but but that Huron one was the first one where it was like, all right, like we're live scoping, and yeah, it worked out, yeah. So yeah, the learning curve with live scope is I mean, I guess it depends on how fast you learn. But um, like for me, I just started running live scope on a boat last year, and I was like, I put one on a pole, right? I was like, I didn't have one on my trolling motor. I just put a 34 on a pole. And uh trying to run the trolling motor and then reach over and run this pole, and I'm like, I mean, I think I fished like two days like that, and I was like, nah, this is not gonna work, you know. I think it was because the intimidation of running the trolling motor with your foot, you know, and and like yeah, feathering and stain on the fish, and keep you just all the stuff that goes along with it. But um, you know, there's there's definitely a learning curve. So putting one on a a couple days before that tournament was probably tough. It was it it it kind of clicked, you know, but it was definitely it's a huge learning curve, as you know, with life scope. There's just so many things to learn, so much info at your fingertips that it's hard to take it all in. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's uh this last tournament I learned a ton. I mean, you know, I felt like I was pretty decent with running the live scope and the pole or running the trolling motor with the live scope, and then having to do it and you know, downpour with 20 mile an hour winds and practice, and then and then during you know, day two, uh, you know, day two sucked. And like I felt like going after after that tournament and after that day and being able to really like stay, and I didn't do very well, but I was able to stay on fish and at least cast them, right? In those winds, in those waves, and I thought, all right, I'm getting at least I'm getting better at that. You know, that's like this a win I took out of it. One of the wins I took out of it was like, all right, I'm I'm getting better at boat control. Um, and seeing guys put up 40, you know, what'd you put up 42 in two days? Yeah, 40. So yeah, I'm just like 43. Yeah. Yeah, I'm just like, man, like these again, just these guys are good because everybody was live scope. Well, some guys were cranking. Um, Tanner Mass Diller. I know he cranked all those fish up, but there was actually more more crankers than I thought, but with the way that bite was, yeah, it was it was kind of eye-opening actually on on day one when I showed up to my spots, and there's just let core guys everywhere. Yeah, oh no. Yeah, yeah, exactly. No, and that's yeah, there's just a lot to it in the wind and everything like that. And with how accurate you have to be in those fish when they're not just like suicidal when it's really finesse presentations, man, and 30 mile an hour winds, and every little pop matters. It's like you've got to be right on it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. You're set. What are you running for a set? So you run Garmin on your boat? Yeah, yeah. Oh, I got a 16-inch Garmin and then um three 12-inchers, yeah. Just pure purely Garmin. Okay, sure. Are you running power brakes or paddles? I don't have the brakes yet. It's kind of the running joke with our our crew. Um I'm the one pole man. Yeah, I just have one power pole, and I don't know. I've I'll probably get them. I think they are gonna be pretty legit. Um, the power brakes are just give you it that extra edge. So I'll probably break down and get another pole and everything, but it's like kind of the middle of the season. Like, man, I'll spend you know another day rigging all that stuff up, and and not to mention the cost and everything. Yeah, they're expensive. I was gonna hold out as long as I could until these guys are really walking away from me. Yeah, I mean, yeah, last so last year I didn't run them. Um, this year I did. I decided to run pulls with paddles, and it helps, but it it doesn't really help you enough when it's blowing that hard. You know, like I think I like dead drift with the wind was like three, and you put those paddles, yeah. Yeah, then you put the paddles down, it slowed you down to like for me, what I can this is just a small sample size, but I think it slowed me down like to 1.8 or something. But 1.8 is cooking when you you know, when you got your live scope out at 60 feet, let's say, or 80 feet. I mean, you're on top of that fish in no time, like there's just no so I think the brakes the brakes are getting put on the boat here in a couple weeks because I just went, you know, it's just yeah. I I I don't know, but when do you stop? That's the other thing. Like you that's where that's where I'm at. It's like it's almost a contest of like how much stuff you can bolt onto your boat. See these boats, they're just robots going down the lake, you know. And I'm like, I really like simple, yeah, you know, like a simple setup, like not many things to go wrong on a boat, you know. I just I like a good solid setup. That's why I've been hesitant too to see just kind of how those brakes and everything hold up over time, and if guys are you know, power poles coming loose and and stuff like that. I've got a a pretty good system in mind. So you were talking about your boat drifting like three miles an hour. Um mine with my one pole and everything, like that wind we were in last weekend. I go about a mile an hour, mile to a mile and a quarter. And I run, I run my my distance way out there, like 110, 120. So I can see him coming. And still on that Oahe bite, it was tough to go with the wind and cast at him because you had to be so precise and in the right presentation for those fish, or else they were just gonna, even if they saw your bait, it might not have been perfect and they would you know veer off. Yeah. So I was able to get away with going into the wind at that one at Oahe. Um, but like on Erie, I just went with the wind the whole time, or else you'd those huge waves you pretty much have to. But the Those fish ate good enough that um I didn't really have an issue. I could see him coming at 120 and line up on them at 50, 50 to 60 and make one good cast. And and you didn't have to be as precise. Those fish wanted to eat, so it's a little easier, but there's definitely probably gonna be a time where it's gonna bite me to nine out of the brakes. Yeah, yeah, that's low. One with the wind is I mean, that's pretty much perfect, actually. Yeah, absolutely. Yep, so that's what you're running. Then um, what else was I? Okay, so going into so you decided this year you're fishing all four. Well, you're fishing all four because I mean Well funny thing is I actually didn't decide that going in. I was uh I was only gonna do Erie because I'm like, man, I've never fished Erie. I've always wanted to fish it. It lined up with the schedule because we just got a slam, like just a jam summer. So many things going on. I can't even fish as much on the weekends as I want to, um, just work-wise and everything like that. So I was like, yeah, I'm just gonna fish Erie and and uh yeah, it'll be fun. So then yeah, do fifth fifth at Erie, and I'm like, uh nice. Now I'm playing on house money, might as well do awahi, it's close enough, you know. Um so jumped into jumped into that one, made it work, and yeah, now coming out, sitting in second triangular of the year. I got some big decisions to make because it's gonna be it's gonna be pulling some strings to fish the rest of the circuit. So yeah. Yeah, I mean that's that's solid fifth on was fifth on Erie, fourth on Oahu, right? Yep. I mean that's second preangler of the year. Um so do you your plan wasn't to fish them all, so now you kind of I think you kind of have to. I know that's it. That's what everybody's saying. Like I said, I I've got a week to decide. I haven't signed up yet, but I really got I gotta figure out how I can make it work with with work and everything. It's just so hard being gone for a week. We got multiple projects going on with the construction thing, and it's just you know, if you're not there, little things can get missed, and yeah, it can really it's tough. So I don't know. We'll see. See if my my dad and brother can can hold her down for me. Yeah, no, I mean that's a it's a tough spot. I get it. Like I have a full-time job too, and um, I can't fish anything but what I already, you know, but that and then I'm gonna fish the Gov Cup and then um the M T the M W C on Bitter. Um, but there's just no way even if I wanted to, that I could take a month off for four different tournaments. And then you know that's yeah, that's exactly right. And the way I'm looking at it, I'm like, I mean, it's five a minimum of at least five weeks to do the whole circuit. Like we got two down, but if I do the next one, I'd have to do all of them. So that's three more weeks out of the summer, and the summer's so short in Montana. It's just a huge commitment, yeah. Um you know, to to to swing it all. Obviously, I'd I'd really want to, but yeah, we'll we'll see. See what I can figure out in the next week. You'll be there, you'll figure it out. Yeah. So what got you into like when did you first start fishing tournaments? Local stuff, or did you fish a lot up on peck? Yeah, yeah, a lot on peck. I mean, kind of, I guess as much as we can. Peck's awesome. We'd I'd like to fish there every day if I could. Yeah, there's a lot of a lot of big fish in peck. But yeah, started off tournaments there, kind of the local, the local circuits, the Montana walleye circuit and the Ford Peck walleye circuit. Um just started with that, and we got a pretty cool group of guys, you know, Owen and Wayne, his dad, my brother, Zeke. We were like together every weekend fishing somewhere, and we just we just have a lot of fun. So it just kind of snowballed from that. I met them and it was like 17 or 18, and and we've just been yeah, fishing like crazy ever since. So the crew, yeah. Yep. Yeah, yeah. That was you know, I asked Cody at the rules meeting, I the bow roller thing, um bow roller popped off, whatever. And I was like, hey, can you help me just lift up? All of a sudden, there's like four or five dudes there ready to help. And I was like, Man, that's that's a that's a solid crew, you know. So it was cool meeting you guys and and stuff. So then the NWT was last year your first NWT NWT tournament. No, no, I did one. Um, you did a Wahi's head back in the year. Yeah, I did a Wai. I did a couple that year. The first one was actually in 2020, the COVID year. Um Wayne Owen's daddy wanted to go out and fish. Um, he wanted to do the circuit that year, but then things got all jacked up with COVID, as you know. So he ended up going to um Ocano, Green Bay, and I went, I did a co-angler at that one just to kind of see what it was all about. So co-angled that one event, and uh I was like, man, this is this is the real deal. This is cool. All the rat boats, everything like that. And always as a competitor, you want to be pushing to the next level. Yeah, I've always been crazy competitive, you know, my whole life, and I always want to take things to the next level and and just you know go to that next tier. So seeing that, seeing Sprengle win that one by like 20 pounds or whatever, it was like one of the cooler experiences. So I jumped in to uh one at Sakakuia that fall, and uh I don't know. I did okay, like I said, probably like a mid-pack finish, 50th or something like that. Um, and then the next year I jumped in, I did three of them that year. And uh yeah, Chamberlain, Cash A check there, and then we went to Green Bay, which was a one-day shootout. Yeah, um, yeah. So no, I did that, and then I took took a couple years off just because like I said, man, it's just so hard to make it work, and then last year jumped into three of them and had a lot of fun last year just fishing all. I mean, Lake Sharp wasn't the greatest, but I had a ton of fun fishing the Mississippi. It was really cool to learn learn the new techniques and stuff there, throwing the willow cats on wing dams and crankbaits, and just a bite that we don't get at all out here in Montana. We got some rivers and stuff, but they fish a lot different than that, Mississippi. So it was fun, a little more traditional. No, I mean we didn't live scope them there or anything like that. So it's kind of like back to the roots of figuring things out. So the Mississippi was really fun, and then yeah, here on my took side, like I said, uh you know, first live scope tournament. And going into that one, I was like, you know, we searched hard all week. Fine. We caught a lot of big fish, but nothing super consistent. So going into that one, I'm like, I just know I'm just gonna stay close. I know I can just catch a pile of fish and uh I'm just gonna have fun and just filter through as many as I can to try to try to, you know, work my way up. I knew I wasn't on anything to win, but I was I thought I'd, you know, hopefully maybe cash a check or something and ended up uh yeah, I was able to find like the spot of the bay that had the biggest fish in it, and went out and caught a pile of fish and had a ton of fun. And when it all settled and I was second, I was like, was not expect I wasn't expecting that, but I'll take it. Yeah, no, that's sweet. That you you talk about the experience of being out there in the rap boats and stuff, and that was like that was one of the driving factors in me doing that one. Um, doing you know, Mo Bridge was like I said, what what other sport can you go and just pay and compete with the best, you know? Yeah, and that's what's cool about the format now. I mean, obviously it's gonna be changing in a couple, you know, next year or whatever, but it is pretty cool to jump in and pay to play. It's like, all right, put your money where your mouth is. Like, yeah, yeah. I mean, I I figured I was donating, which was fine. Um, but I just I wanted to experience it and just like see what it was all about, you know. And the like I told, I think I told you guys, I don't know, I told about everybody the fishing didn't make me nervous. Like after pre-fish, I was like, God, I might blank. Like, there's a real chance that I'll blank. Um, but but then uh I talked to someone and and they're like, Yeah, I feel I feel the same way. And uh it was actually Tom Wynn, and I was like, Oh man, instantly I was like, Well, who cares then? Let's just go fish. I was gonna say, I think everybody would feel like that. Yeah, well, you guys even like code, like Cody said the same thing. Like, what you know, the night we're having dinner, he goes, like, there's a real chance that you can blank this tournament, you know, or he. But you know, the uh what was my point? It was just it was more about the experience than anything. Um, just getting like oh, the only thing that made me nervous was like the law because I never code anything, right? So, like launching the boat and take off and like coming back in and weighing, like I didn't know anything about that. So, like day one, uh, when we came to wear our fish, luckily I had uh Gary Slagle, who he's coded a lot of tournaments, and he uh he's like, Okay, this is what we do. All right, cool. Right, yeah, that definitely helps. Yeah, yeah. This co is teaching me how to do so. It was just, I mean, and I was very upfront about that, but it was it was really cool, and um, yeah, I get the I wish I could do more. Part of me hopes, hope I don't get chastised for saying this, but part of me hopes it goes back to how it is now where you where you can enter, you know, because I want to fish it, like for selfish reasons. Um it'd be nice. I you know, I find it hard to believe that I I mean not hard to believe, but I'm just I think everybody has the same question. You know, you come off of Mo Bridge where there's 160 pros, you know, at $2,000 minimum apiece. That's $320,000 in prize money just in that. And now you're gonna limit it to $100, they're saying they changed it now to where it's a hundred. I think they're gonna obviously have to raise the entry fees, you know, or just uh I would get sponsor money to subsidize it or supplement it, but I don't know. I just I'm a little skeptical. Yeah, I'm curious too on the long-term sustainability. I like the direction they're going, you know, try to make it more premiere, have you know, walleye be you know, a little more prestigious, I guess, in that aspect to make a true pro invitational, yeah. Um more professional, I guess, maybe. Yeah, but the system now is is pretty cool, and it's not you know, like you said, it's it's too grand, you know, to enter. So yeah, all set and done, it weeds out a lot of guys that you know aren't serious too. So yeah, the pay to play, it's cool. I I mean maybe in the future they do something where, you know, if you just paid for all four, because I think what they want, like you know, some locals or whatever come in and it could be a really tough bite, and guy they win it, you know, yeah, take it from the pros or whatever, but yeah, still he was the best that day on the water, and that's what it's all about. So yeah, maybe maybe something where you know you if you agree to do the full circuit and you you pay up front for all four of them, I could see that being a pretty cool, pretty cool deal to keep everybody, you know, traveling and and the same group of guys they're all competing against. But it'll be interesting to see. I think what it does is, you know, just thinking here, what it does though, because there's no there's no other like pro co format, right? Everything else is team event. Um, so so maybe what it does is it opens the door for you know some other pro co circuit to to make a push where guys can just enter it and you know not have to qualify. I mean, I get it, you know. I'm I'm torn, I get it, where like it makes sense. You guys are the premier fishermen, premier walleye fisherman. It should be invitation only, it should be qualification. It it I can't argue it. I just like I said, selfishly, I'm like, damn, dude, I want to experience that again. And I can't fish anything more this year, so you know that's that's the only just selfish reasons. Yeah, there's a lot of guys in your shoes, though. I mean, heck, even I was, you know, we've all been there. Everybody started like that, wanting to get into it, and yeah. So now it'll be interesting to see which way it goes. But so let's talk about Mowbridge a little bit. Like, how if you don't mind, like how's your or maybe this is generally speaking for all tournaments, what's your what's your pre-fishing mindset? I mean, are you just what are you doing? Like how are you breaking down a body of water? Yeah, that's tough. That's where your team helps out a lot. I mean, a place like Erie where there's just countless of miles everywhere you stop and put down, there's a walleye, it can be pretty overwhelming, you know. So yeah, now going into it, you know, you always have kind of like some preconceived notions of what the fish should be doing for that time of year, and historically, you know, what tournaments get won where and how much weight it takes. So you have kind of all that background info going into everyone. Yeah, and uh you kind of just go off of that, you know, you you break it up with the team, you know. You cut one guy covers this area, one guy covers this area, um, and just slowly start breaking it down and putting together a pattern. Yeah, um, you know, something that works on this end might work on the other end, and hey, I'm you know, I'm getting them deep, like they're biting deep on jigging wraps or whatever. So, you know, okay, I'm gonna apply that to my area. And you know, first try to usually always try to dial in, you know, the best program to catch them, to get them to bite, where you can get a couple bigs, and then take that throughout the throughout the tournament body of water and and see, you know, where you think the best fish are. But yeah, yeah, it's for a limited time and you know, working so much, I don't usually always have you know a lot of time off. So you really gotta make it count. And you know, when you get bad weather, high winds and stuff like that, it really slows you down on figuring out what you want to figure out. Yeah. So it's all about yeah, efficiency and knowing where to spend your time and where to not, like what you're seeing. There's just a huge, huge line there that's that's tough to draw sometimes. Yeah. Yeah, that uh I know for me that the stretch basically from South of Mowbridge down to like Dodge Draw um is just where I fished the most. So going into the tournament, I I just kind of painted myself in a corner by saying this is where I'm gonna fish and I'm gonna figure it out in this stretch. Uh and it it I didn't, but then you know, to hear that like just to see like stall won it, like the fish that won it for for him was like a mile from the launch. I mean, it was literally right across the river. Um and I I went, wow, that and the the crazy part is like he was like that afternoon at like one o'clock, he was like a hundred yards behind me working the same trees, and uh and then to hear where he caught him, I was like, oh man, that's just too little, too late. But I I really you know it it taught me a lot about like just being open-minded and not. I mean, you can't force fish to be somewhere just because you're comfortable in that spot, you know. It's just asking for it. But he the travel team thing is really I really like grasped the importance of that, you know. That oh it's it's huge, it's everything. Yeah, when you're going to all these new places, and like you know, coming from Montana, we don't get the luxury to fish a lot of these spots, the Great Lakes and all that. So yeah, yeah, to break some of them down without a team, man. I just don't know if you could do it. Oh no, no. I talked to someone before it, like I was on my way out there on Thursday night, and uh they were like, Man, you got four and a half days to break down that body of water. He's like, Good luck, and he's someone I know pretty well, but you know, he's like good luck, you know. And in a way, limiting yourself kind of to that area was probably a smart thing to do, being just one guy, yeah. You know, to you you can really spin out running all over and trying all these different spots, and yeah, yeah, that's why I like to find a program first because most of the time there's fish kind of everywhere. Yeah, you don't necessarily there's not necessarily one spot that's just way better than the rest. I mean, there is, but there isn't. You got to figure out the program and dial in the program, and then you can focus on the spots. Sure. Yeah, and I mean the crazy thing is that stretch, you know, there's that there's that flat, casca flats, right? Right, like or Swan Flats, right outside of the mouth there on the north side. And like there was a lot of guys that did really well in there in that tournament. And I mean, I launched at Swan every day but one but one, and I'd come out of the mouth and I'd go right around that flat and right up to where I'd pass. So I'm like that was one of the places I was gonna check, but again, that's just not executing a game plan, and that's what yeah. Don't cast checks, right? Yeah, just like you said, uh, it could have been make or break, you know. You just stop in there and figure out they where they were on there, it could have changed your tournament. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Always things, yeah. Yeah, there's always next time. So your pre-fishing routine, I mean, you got that. That then once so once you go into like now. It's like the day before the tournament, are you just confirming what you think you found the first like the previous four days? Are you looking at new stuff? Or I mean, what do you do? It really depends where you're at in the pre-fish and how good your game plan is. Like, yeah, that's what I did. Like Bow Bridge, for example, um, that Tuesday was definitely go confirm the spots, they're still there because those fish were moving a lot, but new fish were also coming in. So sure. It's like pull up, you know, make sure they're still there, and you don't even necessarily need to catch one, but you see the right ones down there, you're like, okay, you know, but there can be times where you still don't have a whole lot figured out and you're still trying to put something together that last day. Yeah, it really depends. But yeah, going into that, you know, day before the tournament, it's really just like trying to take a mental log of all the info that I've learned, you know, throughout the throughout the week. Um and putting together a game plan that gives you the best odds to be able to put yourself in the best position, um, or at least what you feel like to give yourself the best odds. You know, so I knew this area had the most big fish from what I've seen, and they bit the best, and that's where I want to spend most of my tournament, but also have game plan, you know, B C D E because we all know that your your A plan doesn't always work out, and that's how you know a lot of guys win these tournaments is making making adjustments on the fly based on that day. Like you said, going into it with an open mind is is everything, and and fishing that day for what it is is is huge, you know. Yeah, absolutely. No, it was a cool experience. So um so going into the tournament now. Now we're like on day one of the tournament. What's your mindset? I mean, you're just you're busting out and you're going to that like that A spot, right? Like spot number one. Yeah, yeah. I got like I pulled up there. I caught probably the most big fish off that spot in practice up by Shaw's North. Um and I was like, you know, I went and checked it the day before, caught two good ones off of it again, and there was more in there. So I was like, that's the spot I think I want to be. Um, but we're just gonna have to play it by year with the wind. We knew the wind was coming up. So I was just going out. I I knew I'd probably make to the spot because you could see in the weather there's a little break in the wind. Um, but I just didn't know how long I'd be able to fish there. So yeah, got up there right to where I wanted to be and and you know started fishing. And like I said, there's a bunch of lead core guys right off the bat. Mark Quartz, he's like passing me. I'm I'm going up wind, he's going downwind, and like his rod bows over with a big fish, and they end up you know bringing it up to the boat right as I was passing them. Um, and it was like a total heartbreak. It was like it's it's like an eight-pounder, and it got off um right in front of it. I just felt so bad for him. But that not knowing that, you know, there's those big fish there and they're biting, like I need to keep keep grinding it out because I had cast to do a couple, I wasn't seeing a whole lot. I'd cast to do a couple that turn, and there was obviously a ton of fish like that that would turn and not bite. Yeah, you just had to cast two enough of them, and hopefully one of them did bite. So yeah, I was able to, you know, we put a couple small ones in the box, my co-angler. Um, he caught, I think, two that two keepers, and I was like, I was throwing any any keeper in because I hadn't really caught any any small ones all week. Like I was pretty dialed on the big ones, at least, you know, I could get my two every day pretty consistently. So I was I was fairly confident in that. Um, but the little ones, so yeah, we catch he catches like a I think I caught a 15 and a half incher first, like in the first 10 minutes, and he's like, Oh, you're putting that in the box. I'm like, heck yeah. Like that means that means we did zero because yeah, you know, you're coming down to when it boils down to two bites, two big bites is all you need. That's they're pretty easy not to get, yeah. But you know, so yeah, I fished that spot for like two hours, caught one mega giant, like a 32-inch super fab, like at least probably a 12-pounder, um, out of that spot and had three little ones. And so I was feeling good, you know. Had the one big one out of the way by it was like 9 30 or something like that. And then the wind came up and it just got it got unfishable. I tried, you know, flipping around, like I said, and going with the wind, but um the waves were just too big and you couldn't be accurate with those moving fish. So yeah. Picked up, headed back down the lake to that big south bend where I knew I could get out of get out of the wind. I wasn't gonna be in in the prime spot, but I was like, at least it's fishable. And all I need to find is one. I've got you know the rest of the day to find one good over. That's really was my goal. Anything else was gonna be a bonus, you know, as far as unders and stuff, because like I said, I just really have an under program. I just knew I wanted to get my two bigs because that tournament, you have to have your two bigs to do well there. So yeah, at about I think it was like 12 30 or 12 45 or something, um, ended up catching the 25 incher. But I was like, I knew in my head I wanted to get 15 pounds on my two overs. That was my goal. Like on day one was at 15 on my overs. So yeah, I caught that one. It wasn't, you know. fat or anything by any means, but at almost one o'clock it was a no-brainer to throw it in. And yeah. And I knew I had, yeah, that was, you know, that would have rounded out my five fish right there. So it was a good feeling. But then I also had, you know, the rest of the day to go and try to upgrade some slots and um never didn't didn't catch a walla after that. Yeah. Kind of embarrassing in that fashion that we never did figure out an under program or I couldn't catch them. But in the end I said out what I I got I got what I wanted and that was the two bigs and yeah yeah so yeah so that's it that rounds out day one come in with 21 pounds six ounces or something like that. Obviously that that giant helped out. But then knowing that day two was going to be even windier and it was going to be windy from the start I'm like man I didn't sleep. I was like I really wanted to be able to get back up there and get get to that spot but I knew it was probably going to be rocking so I just kind of went into the day like I'm just going to take off and I'm going to drive until it doesn't make sense anymore. Because we kind of had spots you know all the way up the lake and you know is any anywhere we're like an outside you know a main channel river bend hit kind of like a steep break walls where we were finding all of them. I was fishing I wasn't fishing any tree fish or anything like that. It was all just the migrating fish coming back but they were just cruising like those steep break lines at 30 feet you know hugging real tight to the bottom so you had to you know I cast out like a lot of little bumps that turned in it turned into big fish that 32 incher actually was just like it was just like a little glimmer on the bottom and I'm like yeah that could be a good one and pull it over and it just you know rock it's up two feet so much more good. That's awesome yeah so going out day two I was I was like pleasantly surprised when I rounded that corner to head north I was like they're not too big I was still going like 44 45 miles an hour or something. So I'm like I'm just gonna keep going until like my cutoff was like if I was going to be going 15 miles an hour I was going to turn around I was just gonna be wasting time and come back. But now I was able to rally up there and it was like just the wind direction changed just enough to where I was behind this bluff and it really wasn't too bad. Nice I didn't even notice it so yeah we pull up there you know second day and I think it was like same sort of deal I caught I caught like a 15 some incher first thing I was casting at a big one and this little one just comes up and smokes and I was like nice little bonus. Bonus yeah yeah then I and then I see you know a big one actually no actually I did cast at that because I I only saw three big marks that day and the first big one that I casted at reacted and and that was that was my first big he turned on it and smoked it it was kind of funny like throughout the week watching enough of them I knew exactly if one was gonna bite or not within like the first millisecond of them seeing the bait like they just had just like a little bit more speed and they just moved just a little differently. So yeah when I saw that at the first big one on the second day I was like sweet like that's that's what I need and it turns I would just I would bring it like a foot over them you know right in front of their face and make sure they saw and then as soon as they saw and turned to start coming up I'd essentially just start reeling. We were just throwing I was throwing a a one ounce tungsten actually one ounce tungsten jig and that win with a uh four inch moochman or three and a half I think yeah to be able to get down and be accurate with that big bit with that you know heavy jig but yeah not as not necessarily a huge profile and I'd roll it over the top of them like about a foot um so I knew they would see and I'd cast at them until they reacted but once they turned I would just start building speed like just reeling it straight up away from them and and those fish are just gaining steady retrieve no no yeah I messed around with like the little twitches and stuff but it seemed like just the speed of the bait leaving them triggered them more than yeah like a little twitch because you know you have plenty of them practice they'd come up and you'd just be twin everything you could to get into the bite and it never seemed like they really did there wasn't like a special a special cadence that really got him besides pulling it away from him it just made him want them more sure so yeah but yeah caught that one and then in between that one um my co-angler Rick he caught one uh a small one a 15 and a half or 16 inch or something so I was like nice yeah I mean we'll take we'll take all those and then I I think I cast another big one that didn't bite um and then like 20 minutes after I caught the first big one you know I found another found another one and it did the same thing the first one did and choked it and that was yeah had like a 31 and a 30 incher in the live well and two two smalls in the first yeah half hour 45 minutes so we were we were rolling pretty high at that point it was like like I said on stage it was like it went from like the most stressful tournament to the least stressful tournament in 30 minutes. Yeah that's awesome. So then the rest of the day it should have been gravy should but I mean I never we caught like maybe a couple short walleye and some bass and stuff trying to find trying to find the last under and then also you know a couple more to maybe upgrade those but never did find them and ultimately that's that's what cost me the win for sure because I had a lot of time both days where I could have definitely had some better slots and got you know three or four more pounds or whatever. But then if I was smarter maybe I should have brought my trolling rods and and put down some cranks and I might have got them but no I I can't I can't complain. I I went into the mind went into it with the mindset of getting two bigs each day and that's what I did. So I'm I'm super pumped. Yeah no you should be man I know that that was uh obviously you finished where you finished and that's solid but you know I mean it's not like anybody blew the doors off either you know like that's the thing I mean I was only three I think it was the maybe three and a half pounds or something from the win and I was one fish short and I had whatever all day basically to catch one and I couldn't do it. So it was a little bit embarrassing in that aspect. And I only had like you know out of the five unders that I weighed there none of them could have weighed more than a pound and a half and a lot of guys were finding you know two two and a half close to three pound unders I'm I'm not complaining that I'm stoked I'm stoked with what I got yeah yeah no you should be man that's awesome yeah I think everybody everybody I talked to kind of felt like 50 pounds is was going to be someone was going to weigh 50 pounds in that tournament um but nobody did I mean I think if it would have been would have been flat it definitely would have or even it didn't even have to be flat but even if just half the when if it was just blowing 15 instead of 30 you would have definitely have seen some some bigger bags it's just when the weather's that brutal man it you gotta take what you can get yeah yeah that was I mean 30 coming up the channel was was not not cool. I mean it's it sucked me that I can fish in worse conditions you know if I look at the weather forecast and I'm like oh it's gonna be blown normally before this if it was going to be blowing like 18 to 22 let's say I'd go yeah I'm just not gonna fish that's no fun that's the cool thing about tournament fishing is it forces you to fish in that stuff. Yeah yeah so now it opens up it like opens up more days like for fun fishing for me I'm like all right yeah it's 20 blown 20 yeah let's go hammer them man let's go out and figure it out yeah for sure anymore with my old age it's just pretty hard to go out and 30 mile an hour wins yeah sure fun fishing like man I don't know yeah I'm 44 bro if I can do it you can do it my back a little bit after that yeah I hear you yep so we kind of covered the plans moving forward um you know I guess well we don't you we're we don't know the plan moving forward yet right like you're still working on it but you're I'm assuming you're gonna fish as many tournaments as you possibly can yeah yeah we got some local stuff I got really the local Montana governor's cup it's it's an awesome tournament and it's like one of the best times to be on Fort Pack. All the grass is green all metal arcs are chirping and you know the fish are kind of spread out all throughout the lake and there's tons of big fish to be caught so it's fun I'm really looking forward to that spending a week there um we got a lot of competition this year as a lot of guys jumped in I know Bo Schilling's gonna be there Dewey um got a lot of local hammers Wendell you know so it's gonna be a pretty stacked field it's just cool to see those guys coming from out of state yeah um you know they they bumped up the first place prize like 20 grand if they hit you know X amount of teams which hopefully they hit but it's cool to see guys coming and and everybody that's not fishing is is missing out because it can be it could be tough. It's a kind of a transition period you know where they're moving from spring to summer areas and a lot of times it happens that week like you'll catch them you'll catch them shallow early on and then by the end of the week they'll be in 30 feet or whatever. You just really never know what you're gonna get but yeah there's there's big fish to be caught and and sometimes it can just be incredible I mean you know I'd say for surely over a hundred pounds is what it's going to take to win um between two days. So it's you know it's more or less 10 30 inch fish over the course of two days. So it's crazy. Yeah it's fun are you fishing the South Dakota governor's cup this year or no? Man I don't know um Wayne's got a spa that's I usually fish it with but it's just so hard like I said to to make it all work and it's like to be competitive you have to take a couple days to to prefish that's like if I'm missing a week for Montana and South Dakota's right after it and then I mean then Ocano NWT would be just right after that. So it's just so hard to make it all work. Yeah so I don't know I more or less just take it as I go and when I see you know when we have you know things are squared away at our construction projects you know guys are lined out and I can take a week I'll I'll jump in and fish and if it works out but a lot of times you know and like that's why last year I couldn't make it to the third or the fourth one at Erie I really wanted to I was sitting decent in angle of the year I've always been sitting like 10th to 15th or something after the three tournaments that I've done. I was the same thing last year I think it was in 12th or something like that. So it's like you're not totally out of angler of the year and you're sitting good and I really wanted to do it but I just had I had a I had a big project that was you know the deadline was like September 1st and that tournament was in August and it just too many moving parts to go away and I I take my job super seriously I I love it too but yeah I also I take it seriously and the more I'm there the easier it is sure as well you know so yeah taking time and neglecting it it's like man I don't know it's just yeah it's not worth yeah yeah I totally get it take time off from work I mean if you you know if you have responsibility and and stuff that you can come back and it's almost like you set yourself back you know by doing it is yeah and it's not even like the money aspect of it don't kid don't kid yourself it's really expensive to fish these tournaments you know but but it's not even that it's more just keeping things at the business running smooth and that's my number one priority and yeah good when when fishing isn't my job essentially for a living you know I don't I don't I can't I can't put it first yeah so for sure cool cool got any uh tips for listeners I mean you know this is kind of a loaded one it's probably gonna be tough to answer but there's obviously all levels of fishermen that are gonna watch this or listen to this um I mean just generally speaking anything you can think of yeah yeah no I thought about it a little bit um because I got asked you know podcast I did a couple days ago I got asked the same thing and I'm like oh man like what can I tell people because there's just so much to it and you don't know where everybody's at but I mean forward facing sonar it's the name of the game anymore so my biggest advice would be you know to spend as much time looking at it and using as using it as you can because it is more it's almost more like a sport than like you know old school fishing off of instincts you have so much information there that that you have to process and figure out you know so putting all the pieces of that puzzle together takes a lot of time and it's it's looking at a lot of fish and paying attention to okay you know a carp looks like this I can see the pectoral fin whatever like don't don't cast at that one or that's a catfish or that's this and the only way to really know is to spend a lot of time on the water and uh you know figure it out yeah figure it out look at it use it totally like embrace it because if you want to be a competitive tournament fisherman if you don't if you just want to be an everyday pleasure fisherman that's that's awesome too you can fish traditional I mean I still love pulling crankbaits and stuff like that or just pitching a jig blind I mean that's some of the funnest fishing you can do but as far as like being a competitive tournament angler live scope get good at it um you know paying attention to every little detail how the fish are reacting to your bait and and making sure they're reacting because you might think you got a good cast on it but the fish didn't see it you might have been a couple inches left or a couple inches right so that's one yeah a big tip I'd say you know is is cast at a fish if you think it's a walleye cast at it until it reacts because pretty much a walleye will usually react um maybe not to every bait you throw but they will react to something. So I always have you know a couple rods tied up and cast three or four different things at it and try to put it you know right in front of their face and get it to react before moving on to the next one because you you never know you know it can get just the right cast and I've seen it a ton of times where it has to be you know perfect whatever six inches in front of their forehead and then they see it and they just inhale it but you already cast it at it six times and you thought it wasn't gonna bite. Yeah so I'd say don't lose faith if if if you if you think it's a walleye or any question that's a walleye um cast at it a lot and you know I'd say some of the more like nitty gritty tips would be try not to bring your bait directly through the line of the fish. You know I always try to bring it through a bottom because their eyes are facing up and in front of them and and a lot of times you could spook them. If you bring it through if the fish is facing towards you and you know and you bump it in the tail or whatever with your bait it's it's gonna spook they're spooky and a lot of times they won't bite after that. I mean sometimes when they're in a good mood they will but you spook it and it runs away and you can't find it or whatever. So I'd say definitely definitely start off by bringing your bait above every fish. And I always like to cast like a little bit long and then I'll reel across the top of the water to line it up exactly and I always want it to fall you know anymore you know when conditions are nice you can kind of tell which way they're facing you can put it right on their head but just to be safe like I always like to be you know a foot or two behind the fish bring it down so it's like a foot over the top of them and then you know be able to put it right in front of their face to where you know they can see it. Yeah and you're you know you're giving your best giving yourself the best odds for sure because you can't expect to cast out a fish and let it drop to the bottom right behind its tail and it to know that you know your bait's there and then and then whatever. So yeah I mean just that's one of the tips I can I could definitely say would would help out a lot. And then paying attention to how they react and the way they want to bite. You know it's it's like anymore you're gonna see a lot of fish if you're on a a walleye lake you're probably gonna find them if you know the time of year and they're least they're their most likely spots to be um so really just pay attention to how they react like did the so you finally got one to bite did he eat it up did he like speed in your bait did he want to eat it off the bottom you know did he want to chase it did he want whatever you know and it's just like those little things can tell you so much like especially on a tough day like when you finally get a bite you know and fish things fishing and things can be random so you also can't put too much weight into one specific instance but you know like your good buddy John Hoyer always says like two is a pattern so you can get two fish to bite a certain way definitely expand on that and and really play with with working I might say because wall are so picky and they like certain presentations. I mean I don't get caught up too much in you know the color and all that like super nitty gritty on the baits yeah definitely like general color schemes you know like dark colors purples yellows whites whatever that makes a big difference but like you know a lot of guys will stress over like one little line one little orange line in their bait or something like that. It's like there's so many things that matter more than that you know so it's like don't don't overthink it but also overthink it. Yeah what uh what what colors were you throwing yeah I was throwing white all white white see and that's so that's what's crazy so you're throwing white I think Bo's throwing white um yeah a couple of other I forget who it was that guys that did pretty well were throwing like pumpkin or charcoal you know so you're talking about color and it you know maybe there is too much weight put into the color thing. That's the thing like in those fish it was like like I said like I could tell almost instantly after they reacted like if they were gonna bite or not and it's like it was almost predetermined. I don't know exactly if it mattered what you had you know throwing the one ounce tungsten and that smaller mooch minnow like was key for me just in the fact that I could present it the way I wanted to that might not have been the best bait you know it might not have been what they were keying in on or whatever. But I knew I could put that combo in the big wind you know right in front of them and and the fish like I said if they wanted to bite it seems like they would bite. Yeah so yeah I think that combination especially in those conditions like you said the wind and then you're dealing with a little bit of current so something that is less you know less susceptible to those conditions I mean it you're gonna get way more you're gonna get uh such a higher percentage of good cast on fish yeah your stuff's not drifting off of them or exactly and that's the most important thing to start with is putting your bait right where it needs to be first and foremost. And then yeah obviously if you're getting denied a bunch or fish are coming up and look at it and it's not working switch it up for sure. Yeah it's easy to just get in or get in a zone and not want to switch out baits or throw different things or whatever and and that's also huge. But usually I'll do instead of like changing the color of my plastic I'll change you know the whole put on a jig wrap or put on a jig and a worm or whatever um and start to dial it in. And sometimes it can matter but I don't get too caught up on it. Big fish like to eat you know so it's all about getting in front of them and and the right cadence yeah is it is a big big thing. So yeah sometimes I noticed on Oahu like I fished a lot of finishers last year and there was it seemed like earlier in the year they liked you know basically for it to be put right in front of them and then jerked away real hard just kind of teasing them and then you know slow retrieve back with a little bit of dance and then uh that was actually later in the year and then like mid summer late summer they just wanted it put right in front of them and just danced and then eventually they just get so mad that you they just inhale it but that didn't work late in the year. I mean I had to get a little more aggressive with it and and stuff you know so it changes. So there's a lot to learn it definitely changes. Yeah the finisher's a cool bait because you can work it a lot of different ways yeah it's definitely definitely a fun one to get bites on but yeah um yeah no there's just so much to it so yeah you just got to pay attention to every little detail just like you said yeah journal that's one thing I like I I grew up doing a little bit of fly fishing I still make it over to Wyoming doing some fly fishing here and there and um a couple times a year but I journaled everything fly fishing and then while I fishing I would I just did never journal anything and then last year I'm like uh I should probably start doing that again you know I'm not gonna remember all this stuff there's just no way to remember it so I know yeah that's the thing the important things I have a good way of of keeping in my memory so maybe that's why I can be a little more successful at times for sure I've got a good memory with with that stuff but definitely big picture stuff. I'm not like a big waypoint guy or like a spot on a spot kind of guy you know areas for sure but it seems like as soon as you get zoned into one specific rock pile or something like that, man, you can burn yourself really fast. And that probably comes from fishing for packing reservoirs so much reservoir fish move around a lot. I think some of those lakes are a little different story where they are you know maybe holding on on certain pieces structure like that. And they won't leave in the summer but just been burned too many times on reservoirs thinking you have like the spot when it wasn't a spot at all. And that's what life scope has told us A lot too, you know. Yeah. Back in the day, it's like okay, like 18 feet vertical jigging, 18 feet. And now you look like you're like, there's there's fish everywhere, yeah. Scattered from 15 to 25, like 18 feet had not much to do with it. Yeah. But then there's certain times where it could be. Like I'd say at Oahee, dang near every big one I caught was like really close to that 30. They were like 28 to 33. It was pretty consistent. That's the depth they like cruising. So yeah. Yeah, that's what I got out there last week, and that's exactly where they were. There, it's you described exactly where I found the fish. I mean, they were just they were on the old river channel next to steep breaks, you know, 25 to 30 feet down cruising, and that was a pretty good day out there, huh? Yeah, it was fun. It was fun, it was cool to get out there. Like, you know, luckily my fiance was like didn't really say anything about it because I was just gone for a week out there, and then it wasn't I didn't really think of it as like redemption, I just thought of it as like uh like everything the weather was good, right? Like starting Friday after the tournament, weather started to get good, and I knew that that thing was like on the cusp of going. Um, so I just wanted to take the day and get out there, so it worked out good. I'm real happy with that, and yeah, no, it was all in that stretch too, like right in the middle of that stretch that I was swore I was gonna fish. So, yeah. No, and some of the tougher tournaments, you know, like it makes you want it that much more, and I really do enjoy that aspect too. It's like I enjoy a lot, even if I don't do good, it's you know, figuring out what the winners were doing and where they were at, and then you're like, Oh man, that matches up with my data, but I just missed this small little thing that that was the winning thing, and I really enjoy that, you know, talking about it and and just putting all the pieces of the puzzle together. I think when it comes down to it, wallet fishing, there's just so much to learn, and that's what keeps me going, you know. Yeah, just those tournaments like the camaraderie, and like that's the cool thing too. I just kind of uh it was just cool to like hang out with guys that are like really like hanging out with you guys. I was like, man, this is awesome. These guys are absolute hammers, you know, and like they're just regular dudes, and when it boils down to, yeah, we're all just regular dudes, yeah. Yeah, it's kind of funny. Um, yeah, I spend a lot of time like you know, with famous people and stuff hunting and whatnot. And like one thing we all have in common is like they're all just they're all good dudes and good people, and there's more common ground than you think with a lot of these cuts. Yeah, so yeah, even just like like I think it was it must it was it was one of the days, day one or something. I was on some on some trees, and here comes Dewey, like cruising by, like actually even practice. I cruise, like I went to a spot I wanted to check out, and he was just down from it. I'm like, that's fucking Dewey. Oh, that's that's it's cool, you know. I mean, like he's a South Dakota dude, and like oh yeah, talk to him here and there, and but but you know, seeing those guys on the water doing their thing or like cruising past all these other guys that ended up fishing well. I mean, it was just it was it's what I signed up for, you know. So yeah, I totally agree. I'm still like that, yeah. Compete with them, and it's but still oh that's dewy or oh, that's hoyer. Like, oh, let's eat fishing, you know. It's like yeah, yeah, that's one of the funnest parts about it for sure. Cool, cool, man. Well, I appreciate it. Uh good stuff. Thanks for taking the time. Uh man, good luck, man. I hope you I hope you find a way to fish it because I'm really rooting for you and I'd like to see you, you know, do something the rest of the year here. So yeah, I know it's that it sets up good. The rest of them are good live scope bites with big fish. So skakawe is kind of close to home. I know fish is somewhat similar to four pack, you know. Um be super fun. There'd be a lot of fish there to catch. You know, the next one in Baitana could be a little tough. The big Green Bay, Live Deal. Yeah. Um, and having to catch, you know, under 23, those could be tough to come by too. But no, it it'll be it'll be cool. It's a really cool season, and yeah, hopefully I can make it happen. But yeah, thanks for having me on, man. It was good to meet you down there in South Dakota. And yeah, hopefully, uh, yeah, see you again. Yeah, we'll see you again soon. So right on. Have a good one. We'll see ya.