Dealing with discretion within the lifestyle Episode 5

Navigating discretion in ethical non-monogamy (ENM) is a nuanced challenge because it sits at the intersection of personal boundaries, social norms, and the respect owed to all partners.  

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Hey guys, and welcome back to our Modernly Faithful podcast. My name is Rich, and I'm here with Miss J. Hello, everyone. As well as we have Stevie John and Amanda. Hello, hello. My twinsies. Hello, everyone. And we hope you guys are having a blast exploring ENM as well as all the various different fun events and parties, especially around the holidays. There seems to be quite a few uh themed parties, which tend to be some of our favorite, I think. Just kind of dressing up and uh Yes, they are so much fun. So much fun. As a matter of fact, we just wrapped up our very first flesh and bones party, which was an absolute blast. So much fun. So much fun.

SPEAKER_03 0:52

Can't wait for next year.

SPEAKER_00 0:53

We actually already announced it. I think we did a save the date for next year. We feel like we should have a flesh and bones annual event.

SPEAKER_04 1:02

I agree. It was a blast. The food was amazing. You know, great cooks in the house.

SPEAKER_00 1:08

Food was so good. I think what was nice is it gave us the opportunity to host a little dinner party. We did intentionally keep it super small, keep it nice and tight.

SPEAKER_03 1:20

Nice and tight.

SPEAKER_04 1:21

Like a butthole.

SPEAKER_00 1:25

And on today's topic, ain't all sex. No, I'm just kidding. No, but the reality was that it was so nice to have that cool, tighter connection with members. We've been uh having the grand opportunity to get to know for the last three months. We have officially hit our three mark three-month mark. Yay! Where's the where's the clap um sound effects? Oh yay. Congratulations, us. Uh, but it's been so fun to just get to know all the various different couples and a little bit of their stories, a little bit of uh their wants and needs and desires. I think all of those things are important of EM and how we interact with one another, how we work to diligently keep everyone safe. I think all of those things are important. Every time we have an event, we typically greet everyone and we still give them a little ENM spiel just to make sure everybody is in line with our vision, our mission, and ultimately helping everybody else stay safe while in the process. So I think all of those things are important. For those of you who do not know what EM means, this ethical non-monogamy, just to put that out there so you don't have to Google it. Put the phone down, Jack. Put the phone down. Uh, but it is, it is an amazing opportunity and a huge responsibility that we have to ensure everyone's safety, everyone's comfort level, and everyone's opportunity to play. Yes? Yeah. Which leads us to our topic of the day. This was Stevie John's idea. So I'm gonna let him give a 10-hour spiel on oh. Um, I got it. Let's go. Let's go.

SPEAKER_01 3:22

We're gonna talk about discretion and not the club.

SPEAKER_00 3:26

You have to say it's sexy though. Discretion. Discretion. Discretion. Oh, good. Discretion. Yes. Discretion, which is actually a huge topic, and there's so many different avenues of discretion. But we mainly today want to focus on the part of discretion that keeps you anonymous. And I think it's a huge, huge responsibility. And obviously, we've heard it said before. I was almost gonna go into song. We've heard it said before, you know, it's not anybody's job to out you in any way, shape, or form of any like, dislike, kink, or anything that you love to participate in. That is, that belongs to you, and it's only your responsibility to share openly if and when you are ready to do that. And the same thing goes in the EM community, right? If you are an active participant of the ENM community, then it is nobody's responsibility to out you with your friends, with your family, with anyone, unless you are ready to make that step. Like, you know, when we go to my twins' birthday parties with their family, we're not just gonna say, hey, when in doubt, pop out that booby and let's get to it. Right. We don't want to do that. We do not want to do that, right? And so, but I do think that it's important for us to talk a little bit more as to why it's so important. And not just for the right reasons of like, hey, it's not my business to rat anybody out or to expose them to anybody. But really, there are sometimes, most of the times, reasons that are so much deeper than just not wanting to be out it, right? It's not sometimes you there are cases where it's like, look, this is my business. What I do here and who I do it with is nobody else's business. Got it. Check 100% in agreement. But sometimes there are deeper reasons and we don't necessarily know them. We don't have to know them to respect them, right? So can you guys share a little bit of what part is important for you, what part is not important for you. Uh, we'll start with you guys on way on the other side of the pond. Oh, wait, not on the other side of the pond.

SPEAKER_01 6:07

On the table.

SPEAKER_00 6:07

At the table.

SPEAKER_01 6:08

No, I think um one of the things for people to for to keep their at an end uh pretty anonymous is could be a work thing, it could be family, it could be a multi maybe a multiple reasons, you know. Like their work could say, you know, we know about this, it you could get in trouble or removed or something, their family could judge them.

SPEAKER_04 6:29

Oh he was yelling at me, he was just he was yelling at me for not making up the mic. So I was helping him.

SPEAKER_00 6:37

I almost had a visual like when he's giving you a head, is that what you do to his head? Like you're a head pusher, aren't you?

SPEAKER_01 6:42

Sometimes you're a head pusher. No, she's she's a kickback and relax. Like she's she wants a margarita. She does a margarita do your job. But no, I'm back to the discussion. Like, I think like, yeah, there's there's many reasons, and I choose to be anonymous with a lot of work and family things, unlike my esposa, who um has revealed that his wife, her friends and family.

SPEAKER_04 7:13

It was a m it was an accident, first of all. Moses figure it out.

SPEAKER_01 7:18

You told him.

SPEAKER_04 7:19

Because he's solid. Okay, so this is what happened. So I'm very open. So all my family and friends know about it. And to be honest with you, like I feel like relieved because you know, I can talk about some of these things that they have questions about, you know, stuff like that. If they have um just concerns and you know, make sure we're safe. I'm very open. So they see me still the same person, it's just you know, I just have sex with multiple people. But anyways, so we are slut, we are huge slut. So my brother found out at a Halloween party, and it was our friend's fault, and he put two to two together. And one of our friends was like trying to convince us, like, nah, I'm like, no, they're not, even though they are, but he was convincing of saying no, they're they're not like that. No, no, no, no. So he asked me the next day, my mom was right there, he was there, and my niece was right there, so he was asking, I was trying to deny. He goes, I'm not stupid. I was like, fuck. I was like, Yeah, it's like we are. He goes, My mom was very disappointed. She goes, she didn't understand it, so but it's okay. But he was like, Okay, well, that's cool. I'm not gonna think less of you. So it's just he just found out.

SPEAKER_00 8:35

I would have blamed I would have blamed it on Stevie John.

SPEAKER_04 8:37

Why would he blame it on Steve? He made me do it. Oh, I should have. I'm like, yeah. But yeah, so then I came cleaning my friends and then the rest of my family. So it was just for me, it was just like a a weight lifted off my shoulders. For sure.

SPEAKER_01 8:52

But not to say that there's not absolutely good reasons for being anonymous and not, you know, coming out to people. There's a multitude of reasons. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 9:00

I think, but both of those things are are valid, right? One employment-based, we live in a very uh interesting world where appearances and judgments are a dime a dozen. You know, yeah, everybody is so so demand. It's so interesting because from a conservative side, this would never be okay. Right. Heavens, please.

SPEAKER_04 9:29

But the reality yeah But Jesus invented swingers, so did he? Did he? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:38

Clearly.

SPEAKER_04 9:39

It wouldn't be such things as swingers. This is true.

SPEAKER_00 9:42

True. True. Uh but but ultimately I think the the truth is, like, for example, on our case, we we have grown kids. Uh, and so part of it was to protect them from feeling any sort of way about what we do sexually and who we do it with. We certainly didn't feel like, for one, we don't feel like it's necessarily their business per se. But more importantly, I think in the sake of transparency and the sake of trying to not be quote unquote caught doing anything, you know, outside of that norm. We did want to be open and disclosed. And you guys have heard a little bit of our story. If you've listened to our first podcast, if not, this is an invitation to go see podcast number one, two, and three. And four. This is podcast number five. Uh, so the reality is that, you know, we shared how we were in a polyamorous relationship. And so obviously at that point, our kids were all fully aware. So was our family. It came as a huge shock. Uh, but again, at the end of the day, nobody died, right? And so everybody just kind of accepted it for what it was. Did they view us a little differently? Possibly. Uh, but we also decided it was it was okay. You know, it wasn't gonna change how we love them and how we loved each other. Maybe it changed their perspective of us for them, but hopefully time alone will help restore and recover any potential loss. Uh, but more importantly, I think as we've openly come out a little bit more and a little bit more and a little bit more. And of course, now hosting Modernly Faithful, it's a little bit harder to hide, right? Now we're the host of a growing community and involved in multiple, multiple other communities as we are bridging bridging the gap with ENM and education and keeping couples safe. I think for us, the most important thing is couple integrity and making sure that the foundation of that couple stays intact as you're exploring the lifestyle. But with that being said, we've also met some amazing couples whom have been in the lifestyle for a number of years, but as they disclose their why, why they don't disclose, why they want to remain discreet, then it just feels so much more of a burden and a responsibility to keep their discretion safe. Uh, I'll talk a little bit about one of the couples in particular who amazing couple have been in the lifestyle for several years. And they spoke to us about their daughter having a mental health illness, and they struggled with her throughout her teenage years and into her adult years. She's an adult now, but she very much still has a variety of different things that trigger her anxiety, her fears, whatever it might be, to the point where, you know, the conversation briefly came up. I think they disclosed and she made the statement like, if I ever find out you guys are ever a part of that, I would never speak to you again. And so that alone just felt so, so heavy because they definitely want to be present for their daughter, even though she's a grown adult, and say, hey, you know, we want to be here for you for whatever might be happening in life. But this situation that is that belongs to us, that belongs to the parents, right, could be the cause for us, for you not to have us anymore as that support system.

SPEAKER_03 13:35

Yeah, that's really hard.

SPEAKER_00 13:36

It is really difficult.

SPEAKER_04 13:37

Super hard.

SPEAKER_00 13:38

Super hard, super difficult. Yeah, because how, again, you want to maintain your level of independence as you're as parents, you know, especially now you're dealing with grown adult kids. But the reality is that the responsibility never ends as parents. I think, you know, we can definitely have a whole topic on just parenting and being in the lifestyle. But the reality is that no matter whether you have children at home or your children are grown adults living their own lives, there's still this level of expectations that your kids have that everything you do and everything you have belongs to them.

SPEAKER_03 14:20

That is true.

SPEAKER_00 14:21

It is the craziest thing. For example, we have two older kids and they'll walk into our home like, um, hello, it's my house. Uh, it's my things, you know. There's like this ownership about and what we have, and sometimes what we do. And so, so there's this implication, I guess, of like, you're doing what? You're doing who?

SPEAKER_03 14:49

And I was gonna say, I don't know if it's harder, like, like, I don't know, at least for me, because we do have boys, so I think it's different with boys and their moms too. Like, they don't want to think of their mom in a certain way, I guess. Right. Right. Yes, you know, but anyways.

SPEAKER_00 15:04

If they knew how spread like a pretzel sh What? Shh I've seen it.

SPEAKER_04 15:12

This is true. Who who are we talking about? I missed it too.

SPEAKER_01 15:16

One thing that I wanted to say is that modernly faithful, the like I think one thing that we do that makes cuff couples couples feel like very comfortable is those bracelets we do. We have the pink and the black. And the black is if you if you don't want to be seen in pictures, no social media, no nothing, we'll have them wear that black bracelet. And they know that they're safe, that they're not gonna be exposed in any kind of way because of that. And I think that is another level that discretion and anonymity and safety. I think they love that, you know.

SPEAKER_00 15:44

Absolutely. And again, I think for us, our system with the bracelet is just to really help identify whom we would potentially need to blur out in the event that there were any content created. Now, if you absolutely adamantly feel like, oh no, if my elbow shows up, I know that elbow, I need that elbow taken out, you know, we definitely have the conversation and we obviously will respectfully remove any content where you feel you may have your elbow may have been exposed, or toe. I was gonna say the toe or toe. Uh, because the reality is that we definitely don't want a sense of discomfort. But here's the other side to this. The other side to this is those of us who are comfortable enough sharing our journey, sharing our story, sharing our comfort for the lifestyle and why it's important and what and the the joy that it brings us, I suppose, uh, is is ultimately helping other couples who are brand new navigating the lifestyle when they can identify themselves in you and saying, hey, these are regular people, these are normal people that go to these events and have a great time and connect with other people. And sometimes it really is just about the uh fellowship, the friendships, the connections. It isn't sometimes I think people have this idea that it's just these massive orgies and that everybody just does anybody. And the reality is that that's just not the case sometimes. Sometimes. Because that is the case. Sometimes it depends on where you're going.

SPEAKER_04 17:23

Exactly. And depends on the vibe as well.

SPEAKER_00 17:25

Right. It depends on where you're going, it depends on the vibe, it depends on who you're with. Uh, we've like, I've known a few people who do things like that. I'm not gonna mention any name. We've seen it too. We've seen it, we've seen it. And it's okay. I feel like, you know, these are some of the things that you give yourself permission to explore and navigate. And at the end of the day, it's an amazing experience that has that's had by the people who are willing to navigate that experience, enjoy that experience, and participate in it. Absolutely. And you know, ultimately, I think it's again going back to this idea of it not being anybody's responsibility but your own to decide if and when you choose to disclose, I think it's the most important thing of this entire conversation because we don't always know why. And the reality is that the why is none of our business. If you do not want to disclose, it's our responsibility to respect that, to honor that, and to hold space for it. If we do not hold space for it because we're like why? Everybody knows you've been swingers for years. Like, just let it go, let it be. Everyone knows you're a hoe. There's a sign on your forehead. Uh, but you know, I think that's just us being part of the problem and continuing to uh not honor and hold space for the people who have real reasons. And whatever those reasons are, they belong to them. And it is not our job to question it, it's our job to respect them. And that's one of the key elements about the ENM community is that we do things ethically. And if for whatever reason you need to not disclose, then it is just our responsibility to help you not disclose with you, right? And so if we are open about our, you know, lifestyle, then then that's just something that we chose to do. Are would I consider myself completely open about the lifestyle? No, it's not like I go on Facebook and say, hey, three new couples this weekend.

SPEAKER_03 19:46

Right. You're keeping count. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:50

But also, people who are not in the lifestyle would not openly just post on Facebook, like, hey, we had sex this morning. You know, like that is something that you just don't necessarily have to disclose.

SPEAKER_04 20:00

I used to do that.

SPEAKER_00 20:01

Did you?

SPEAKER_04 20:02

Back in the day when I was very, very young. Oh.

SPEAKER_00 20:05

Oh.

SPEAKER_04 20:05

I would I was dating my uh my daughter's father. I would be like, yeah, I just got done having sex with him. I just got done sucking his dick on my Facebook. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:16

And I'm sure people love to hear about that.

SPEAKER_04 20:20

I don't remember. It was a long time ago.

SPEAKER_00 20:22

Did you get a lot of good comments?

SPEAKER_04 20:24

Mostly it was from my family and friends like, I don't want to hear that. Don't read it.

SPEAKER_03 20:29

Awkward. She's very open with her sexual.

SPEAKER_04 20:37

Yeah, I'm very open. So they know that. So it's like, it's like, it's not the new.

SPEAKER_00 20:41

Guys, my twin is a sexual fiend. And we love her and accept her anyway.

SPEAKER_03 20:47

Yes, we do.

SPEAKER_00 20:48

We listen and we don't judge. No, but all in all, I think, you know, we've we've come across situations where there's always this fear of being outed, and there's always this fear of being having to answer questions when you don't want to have to answer some of those questions, right? Whether they be work-related, family-related, other vanilla friends, people from the church. I mean, the list goes on and on of like whom would frown upon this lifestyle and the reasons why they frown upon this lifestyle, which I think are all important for everybody in their own different way. And our job is to really just hold space for whatever that is. If you, if we have a good connection, is like, hey, I think I like you guys. You do you guys like us? Do you guys want to go like brown chicken, brown cow? And then like, and then we go and brown chicken, brown cow is like, but but where we're discreet. Well, don't worry. We won't tell anyone where your brown chicken was in the brown cow.

SPEAKER_01 21:57

You know, something very interesting is through this journey. We've ran into coworkers and other things, and it's kind of like of implied discretion, you know, like I know okay, I know what you're doing here, you know what I'm doing here. And you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 22:12

Have you ever felt like your re need or I'm gonna say requests for discretion ever been violated or outed? Like since you guys have been in it since the dinosaurs roamed the earth.

SPEAKER_04 22:33

Oh my goodness. We're not that old, just let you guys know.

SPEAKER_01 22:40

Have you ever like requested um to be anonymous or discreet and someone not you know um upheld that?

SPEAKER_04 22:48

Um no, to be honest with you. Nobody had ever came up to me.

SPEAKER_01 22:53

I think this community's pretty good about discretion because like it it like I said, if if you're here I find you're here and I'm here, I know why you're here. You know what I mean? It's like I'm like a a both two-way street, you know?

SPEAKER_04 23:04

No, I've never been in that situation.

SPEAKER_00 23:06

Has anybody ever shook you where you're like, you're a swigger?

SPEAKER_04 23:10

No. No.

SPEAKER_01 23:12

You're this yes, I've ran into coworkers and it's interesting.

SPEAKER_04 23:17

Not me, but yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:19

Well, you don't have a lot of co-workers.

SPEAKER_04 23:21

No, I don't. I don't.

SPEAKER_01 23:25

How about you guys? Have you ran into anybody that you knew or saw or like oh I did.

SPEAKER_00 23:31

I did so I I'm a massage therapist, but I do a lot of things. One of the things I do is a massage therapist.

SPEAKER_04 23:39

And you wear many hats, I wear many hats. You have ten hats.

SPEAKER_00 23:44

But it was so interesting because I am really good at uh creating content when it comes from like a promotional standpoint. Like I'll get in front of a camera and I'll tell you where to go, what to do, what we're promoting. Like I have no problem being in front of a camera. And it's so funny because now my folk, my face, you know, is recognized by whomever is listening to this content. And I saw a message come through from who used to be my teacher and massage. And I was like, uh, what the? And she's like, hey Rich, I saw that you're a spokesperson spokesperson for the lifestyle. I was like, well, I would never give myself that title. But thank you, Ambassador, professor of the linguistic arts. And I was like, oh my gosh. And I was like, uh, okay. She's like, so I saw you were uh spokesperson for the lifestyle, and I was my husband and I were exploring it, and I was like, ew.

SPEAKER_02 24:54

Ew.

SPEAKER_00 24:55

Can we not? Oh, no, I'm sorry. This is only for exclusive lifestylers. You want no.

SPEAKER_03 25:02

So I guess it could be weird, right? If you see somebody else's teacher, especially if you're so involved, too.

SPEAKER_00 25:08

Like if, like, for example, at that time I was working for a um lifestyle club and promoting the lifestyle club. And so, of course, my face was gonna get out there and I was gonna be doing promo videos and whatnot. And so it was just an interesting, like, ooh, if this person saw it, how many others may have seen it? And now, well, here it is. And so, although I've never been secretive about it, there's just some people you would never expect to come across. Like, what if your grandma comes across and you'd be like, Grandpa?

SPEAKER_03 25:42

I'm gonna say that. Like, I think it would be like for me, I think it would be weird if you saw a family member come like imagine one of our kids on your kids.

SPEAKER_00 25:51

Where are your parents?

SPEAKER_04 25:52

Dude, my brother, if he saw that, he'd be like, Man, I wish I could join you guys. Like, I'm glad you're my brother. Like, I don't want to see you. No. He told me that one time before when we had like a party at our house before, and we were telling about this girl, the single girl, remember her name?

SPEAKER_01 26:08

We're not gonna mention names.

SPEAKER_04 26:09

I don't know if she's gonna remember her. Yeah, so we we brought her over to the one with the nose. So we brought her over to the house because she we told her like we're meeting with another couple, they're coming to her house, and then I guess my I don't know, did Moses wanted to I don't know. But she came over and we told Moses about it, and he's like, Man, if I was there, I would have kept her company. I'm glad that you're not there. Like, no, Moses. Like, no, like no.

SPEAKER_00 26:32

It is a little different. And you know, I think for us, we we do try to keep those two things separate, like our family component from the lifestyle, because it is a very, it's a very intimate situation, even though we're intimate with other people, it's still very much an intimate act that you wouldn't necessarily have sex in front of your children. Why would you do that now just because you're with multiple people, right? It's just not one of those things. But but again, it's something that you're sharing with that specific group of people, and it just makes it okay. It's not something you would do on a regular that's not true, because sometimes we're in the club and you're drunk and you're grinding and you're just like in the club.

SPEAKER_03 27:18

Oh, you guys dumb. Uh but everybody does that, right?

SPEAKER_00 27:24

Everybody does it, everybody's doing it.

SPEAKER_03 27:26

Everybody's doing it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:27

No, but there is so much to be said about like these disclosures where people come across and you're just like, whoa, I didn't see, I didn't expect that, but here we are, and so we just kind of address it head on and create space for them as they're navigating this, while at the same time compose yourself and say, it's perfectly fine. They're grown adults, and they too have the freedom to choose the opportunity to play in the lifestyle. So it really is one of those interesting dynamics about disclosure. And will the lifestyle ever feel normal? I don't know. I d I don't think so. I don't think people will ever be accepting of it. Maybe as generations start to transition, maybe one day, you know, ethical non-monogamy is just a normal thing and not an eyebrow raise or a gasp for air. But in today's world, I still think it's something that is not always accepted by the masses. And in which case we respect everybody's discretion. For sure. Because especially because of that. Because it's not always respected by the masses, and because it's not always accepted, and at times it is frowned upon. And the reality is we're all sane little innocent people just love to play sexually with others. Yes or no, yes. Yes or no?

SPEAKER_01 28:59

Yes. Yes, yes, yes.

SPEAKER_00 29:02

Because I think ultimately some people see it just as a little bit of sexual uh malice or is it that we're not selfish? Is it why are we swingers? Yeah, that's a good question, babe. Why are we swingers? Why are we swingers? What is it that we what is it that we're looking for?

SPEAKER_01 29:23

I I think we are comfortable enough in our own relationship and not jealous enough that we can enjoy this type of lifestyle without worry.

SPEAKER_04 29:34

I agree with that. Damn, bam, that was hot.

SPEAKER_01 29:38

That was hot. Thank you. I work out.

SPEAKER_00 29:42

It's the squats. It's a squats. It's a squat. So, guys, tell us what you think. Tell us what what are what scares you about being outed. We love to hear your stories. We we believe your stories are very important. And for us, seeing all of these beautiful, amazing stories of couples coming out into into life with uh with the lifestyle, meeting amazing couples, uh, connecting with them, becoming friends with them, and exploring the ENM world with them is just an amazing gift to be a part of, I think, for us. Although we have a very low number of couples that we've played with, every single one that we have played with has been an absolute blast. And we've enjoyed our time and we've enjoyed their energy. And I have to say that we're pretty much friends with every, almost every single one of them. He had a pause with I was going down the roster, see how fast that was because it was a very little roster.

SPEAKER_03 30:52

Very little.

SPEAKER_01 30:53

We have like to piggyback on that. We have met some amazing people like that we otherwise would not have. So I uh definitely have enjoyed this journey.

SPEAKER_00 31:01

Absolutely. Like we are some of my best friends are naked.

unknown 31:04

True.

SPEAKER_00 31:05

I need a card that says that.

SPEAKER_02 31:07

Yes, that's a fact.

SPEAKER_00 31:08

And there's so much freedom and just kind of exploring the space where you could literally be your most authentic self, vulnerable, nude, like enjoy each other's sexual energy. That doesn't always mean like a full swap, guys, because it doesn't a lot of the times it's not even that at all. Right. It's just really being in the same space with like-minded couples. They're enjoying their space, we're enjoying ours, side by side, next to one another. Sometimes a hand goes here, a tongue goes there, whatever that might be. A toe. Um sometimes the toes inner lock. Sometimes the sometimes the toes zing.

SPEAKER_02 31:59

Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_00 32:02

But the reality is that it is, it is is all in fun and freedom and connection, and then you're just left there thinking to myself, is this real life? Is this real life? Did we just have this like super cool experience with these amazing human beings? And, you know, you can get dressed and go out and dance some more or drink or eat. And it's just it's real life. And, you know, one of our one of our things that we love to promote is real couples, real chemistry, real fun. And it really does sum up our experience and E ⁇ M while at the same time being incredibly intentional about people's need for privacy. That discretion is the number one on everyone's list as we continue to explore, learn what's important for them so that we can help keep them safe, as well as learn how to voice what's important for you so that you can help them help you stay safe. Because all of those things matter and all of those things are important. So again, if it ever feels like you're being outed or like you might be outed, know that that is not an EM practice. EM really comes down to ethics in learning to respect each other's boundaries. And that is one of the boundaries. It isn't just about physical touch or consent, but it's about keeping your privacy private. And you get to choose what that looks like and what that feels like. Anything outside of that is not an EM practice. Now the question is, how do you find places that make it a point to have EM practices, right? And so I think part of that is just gonna be down to vetting. You get to vet the community that you want to be a part of, just like they get to vet you and see if you're a good fit for their community. And like, for example, in our community, you'll always get repeated reminders on ENM and why it's so important. Memberships matter, which is why a lot of these communities have a membership. If they basically just let anyone in, then they can't guarantee that they can keep you safe. Now, even with a membership, we can't guarantee that we can keep you safe. But the reality is that you're less likely to be outed by someone who is a part of a community versus, for example, a sex club that's just open to anyone who's willing to pay the price. You don't know their intentions, you don't know what they're there to do, whether it just washed, whether it's just hit, whether it's just whatever it is, we have no idea. So for us, a membership is important because it ultimately means you're invested in ENM and what we have to offer.

SPEAKER_03 34:52

Agreed.

SPEAKER_01 34:52

I agree with that. And there's only one little caveat I do want to add to that is that when you are out there searching for other couples or you're on a website, or you do have that chance of someone you know seeing you because they're looking for the same thing. So you do have to approach that with a little bit of caution, you know, and all the people like will blur their faces out, or they'll, you know, have a conversation prior before they'll share their face pictures. And I don't know if that's a common practice, but a lot of people do try and keep that, you know, anonymity even with being public.

SPEAKER_00 35:24

You know what I'm saying? For sure. And it is a fine line, you know, it's like you see Charlie from work, it's like, Charlie, no wonder you didn't get those files in on time. You're here, you ho. Right? And so, so that can be important, but but that's also important, like, especially some of us in the professional world. Like, again, I'm a massage therapist, I'm a hairdresser, I'm a mental health therapist, my wife's an aesthetician. So, what happens when you see your client in some of these locations and you're like, oh, your hair looks great? Who did that for you? Hi, my name's Rich. Nice to meet you. Right? I do feel like it's important to reintroduce yourself. You know, in a situation like that, who you are out in the real in the real world as a professional, as a parent, as a brother, as a sister, as a mother, as a father is so incredibly different than who you are in the lifestyle. Because who you are in the lifestyle has a different type of realness, have it has a different type of rawness. So if you do encounter yourself, it's like here you are in the middle of this party or in the middle of this club, and all of a sudden you see a coworker and you see someone you know, don't make it hella awkward and try to hide and bury yourself because then that's only gonna make it worse. I think the big the biggest thing you can do is step up to the plate and reintroduce yourself to this person in this world. You know, it's like, hey, my name is Rich and we're active members of this community. And so it's like, oh, hey, how's it going? So that almost like breaks the ice for that conversation to occur uh because it really is a whole different version of you. Who we are, who we are can you not who we are at home and at work is completely different than who we are with our lifestyle friends. I want to say there's a little bit more realness to who we are with our lifestyle friends, more rawness than who we are with the lifestyle friends. Like I would never just walk around nude for everybody, but I walk around you for you, MFers. That is true. And it is, it is a completely different reintroduction. So, from a mental health perspective, I would definitely advise you to just own it, step up to the plate, and reintroduce yourself to that coworker, to that friend, to that family member, to your grandma, if she's in the lifestyle party too, and say, Hey, my name is so and so. And I built we've been a part of the community for a few, for however long you've decided to disclose that, right? And it just gives them the opportunity to say, hey, they'll probably say something crazy like, oh, we we thought this was a regular party.

SPEAKER_03 38:07

I guess like, no, no, no. No, it's not.

SPEAKER_00 38:10

I'm just kidding. No, but the reality is what jingle balls meant. That's that's what that meant. But the reality is that if you give yourself the opportunity to own that space and reintroduce yourself to whomever that might be, not only will you feel safer, but then at that point you can reinstate your discretion needs. Hey guys, I'm so and so, and I've been in the community for a while. And this is just something that I do private, and I don't want anyone to find out that we're in this, but welcome. I'm glad you guys are here. You hold.

SPEAKER_01 38:49

And 99.997% of people will respect that. For sure. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 38:54

Right. And they're there, they're there for the same thing.

SPEAKER_00 38:56

So absolutely. And so there is that feeling of especially, especially if you find membership-based communities. They would have not allowed them to come in if in fact they weren't an active member of that community. It's a little difference with clubs because they'll let anyone in who will pay the admission. But in these types of in membership-based communities, you'll always feel safe because everyone's there, had to go through the application process. Was it vetted, accepted, and they went through the process of obtaining a membership? So it's it should be the safest place for you to play in and to be in.

SPEAKER_04 39:34

Yeah, 100%. I do agree with that.

SPEAKER_00 39:37

Guys, well, I hope you found this super helpful. I hope that we gave you a few little nuggets to help you navigate in the event that you were to come across someone you might know, someone you you might have a connection with. And we also hope that we've given you a little sense of peace when it comes to EM and your privacy or your willingness to disclose. All of those things absolutely matter to most, if not all, ENM community-based organizations. That doesn't mean that one-offs don't happen and people could be a little weird. Uh, but the reality is if you learn to keep yourself safe, you will always be successful in the lifestyle. Sometimes we've also come across where people don't even give their real names when they come to these types of things. That to me feels a little unauthentic. You know, you're like, uh you meet these people and they're not really them. Again, find your tribe, find your community, find your people. There are people who are just open for one-offs and they're just a wham bam, thank you, man, uh, ma'am, on to the next. That's not everybody. And I'm gonna almost dare to say that's not most people in the EM world. Most people in the EM world are really truly looking for a good connection. That one couple, that one single, that one, you know, community that you can go out with, do regular vanilla things, and then come back and do some non-vanilla things if the uh the opportunity come permits. So just do some research, find the community that feels safe for you, and and have a blast. I think uh give yourself the opportunity to to live and explore and enjoy all the various different ins and outs of what the lifestyle has to offer. Uh, any quite last-minute thoughts for you guys? I feel like I keep hogging the mic.

SPEAKER_01 41:36

No, I was just thinking that if you guys have comments or you want to ask something that we didn't you know discuss there, like reach out to us, comment, you know, we're we're always open to help people out.

SPEAKER_00 41:46

For sure. We we love listening to your stories. And and if you give us permission to, we'd love to highlight one of your stories, maybe on how you got out it or how you disclose to whoever is important in your story, because we love to reconnect and hear more about what that meant for you. And well, did it help? Did it make matters worse? You know, how how did that go?

SPEAKER_03 42:10

Yeah, because we can all learn from each other.

SPEAKER_00 42:12

Yeah, we and I think that's important. We we're always learning from each other. Like the other day, Stevie John, I didn't even know that could go there. And now you know, and now I know. I was like, hello. Oh my god. Guys, it's always so much fun around the modernly faithful table, but we do hope that we brought some insight, maybe help you chuckle a little bit and help bring a little bit of ease in knowing that your discretion is super important in the EM world. Uh, we can't wait to share a little bit more as we continue to navigate the lifestyle and our modernly faithful story. And until next time, don't get pregnant.

SPEAKER_04 42:57

Bye, everyone. Bye.

SPEAKER_00 42:58

Bye, guys.