Voices Unlocked Ep. 12 | What Helps (and What Doesn’t) When a Parent Is in Prison

Email us at voicesunlocked26@gmail.com

In this episode of Voices Unlocked, Liz and Lorna reflect on the podcast’s growing support before discussing practical “do’s and don’ts” for supporting children with a parent in prison. Liv shares how a handmade teddy from when her mum was in jail, letters, tattoos, and a “missing you box” helped her cope with ambiguous loss and anxiety, and explains how creativity like journaling, drawing, and writing can be cathartic. Liv reads her poem “Magic Wand,” exploring intergenerational worry, trauma triggers, and the child’s instinct to protect a parent. They advise practitioners to “go slow,” let children lead, and use the PACE approach -playfulness, acceptance, curiosity, and empathy - then close with “magic wand” wishes, including hopes for a UK government manifesto shaped by families’ voices.

Chapters:
00:00 Listener Disclaimer
00:34 Welcome Back Update
01:21 Fans Keep Us Accountable
01:58 Scary Movies And Comfort
02:35 Helpful Tips Setup
03:09 The Fairy Teddy Story
06:15 Missing You Box Explained
07:23 Letters And Tattoo Memories
09:50 Creativity As An Outlet
11:41 Magic Wand Poem
14:20 Protecting Mum And Boundaries
15:52 Why Kids Hide Their Worries
16:39 Kids And Guilt
17:30 Journaling As Release
19:25 Go Slow Build Trust
21:05 Decompress And Masking
22:08 PACE Training Explained
22:47 Playfulness Acceptance Curiosity
26:00 Empathy In Practice
27:40 Magic Wand Wishes
30:39 Closing And Next Guests

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:00

Hey guys, just a quick disclaimer, as always, we do not claim to be therapists or counsellors. We are just sharing our stories of experiences that we have had from someone with lived experience and someone who is a researcher and a practitioner. When you are listening to these stories, please take care of yourselves as they can be a little bit heavy. There's some funny stories in there as well. Obviously, we are open to positivity in the comment section, please. Like I said, these are all truly based off people's lived experiences. So thank you so much. And I hope you enjoyed the episodes. Love you, bye. Hey guys, welcome back to Voices Unlocked. This is episode 12. 12. We are 12 episodes in. What the hell? Just like me slippers, by the way. Sorry. Everyone was laughing at me because this is what I walked in with today, but it's all about comfort. I think it's all about comfort. I think it's all about comfort. Um just want to say very fast, thank you so much for all the support. It's been overwhelming, it's been amazing. Um I went to your daughter's um 18th birthday party. Yeah, I know that's not the topic of the podcast. For an 18th I have an adult child. For the 18th, insane. It was the best thing ever. Um the amount of people who come up to me and was like, oh my god, we've seen your podcast. And I was like, stop it right now. It made me so emotional.

SPEAKER_02 1:22

And on that, we missed recording one episode once, and that meant on one Monday we didn't release an episode, and um, I got told off by quite a few of our fans. Really? Yeah. So basically, we have somebody that follows us. Shout out Meg. Love you, Meg. Hi, Meg. And she texted me one Monday morning and was like, Where's the podcast? This is my Monday morning routine. I get up every Monday, get dressed, listening to the podcast, and there's no podcast, and that's because we missed recording one. I'm so sorry. So we will not let you down again.

SPEAKER_03 1:55

It'll never happen again. Never ever, ever. Pinky sure.

SPEAKER_02 1:59

So, and even though you've just come off a shift, you're here.

SPEAKER_03 2:03

Yeah. Just come off a shift. I did a three-day stretch. And you know what? Um, the child will look after did me hair last night. They were like, Can I do your hair for your podcast? And I was like, Of course you can. That's so nice. They loved it, they loved doing it, and then they made me watch a scary movie, and I was absolutely petrified.

SPEAKER_02 2:19

But yeah, no scary movies for you. No, we can't do it.

SPEAKER_03 2:22

You don't like scary movies trauma dark.

SPEAKER_01 2:28

This is this is gonna be a great podcast. You need to stay tuned because this could go anywhere.

SPEAKER_03 2:34

Speaking on scary, um, so today we decided to just have like a little bit of a talk about some things I found helpful.

SPEAKER_02 2:44

Yeah, and more new and what's not helpful. I think now we're kind of building up lots of people following us, and some people are practitioners, some people are parents, grandparents, and I think it's just probably useful to have those kind of handy what helps and maybe what is less helpful tips, tips and tricks, do's and don'ts, kind of so.

SPEAKER_03 3:09

Just before we get into the um what helped, um going back onto speaking onto something that's a bit a little bit scary. Um my mum came today, guys.

SPEAKER_01 3:26

That's not scary at all.

SPEAKER_03 3:28

No, she's she's been through it, no pun intended.

SPEAKER_02 3:32

Um I love the fact that you're redoing her hair.

SPEAKER_03 3:36

Yeah, because she looks a show. Mum, I'm so sorry. She doesn't usually, well, she does usually look like the moment joker. Um, no, but this, right? I was on FaceTime to someone a few months ago, and they seen like my teddies in the background, and they were like, Have you got teddies? And I was like, Yeah, and then they seen this one and was like, no, sorry, that's absolutely petrifying. And I thought, Yo, Gio, that's my mum. Um, but I have had this since I was eight, and when my mum was in jail, someone made it for her. I think she I know she didn't make this. If she said she made this, she's a little lion. Um, but someone made this for her, and I brought it home with me, and I've had it ever since. It's been everywhere with me. I used to I took her to Switzerland and everything.

SPEAKER_02 4:20

Yeah, I I've always kind of remembered seeing that that doll teddy.

SPEAKER_03 4:25

And I've I when I get anxious, I pull the hair out, so that's why her head looks like this. Or what oh, she lost a stenny.

SPEAKER_02 4:34

No, um but that's such a lovely thing. So somebody in prison made that and for your mum to give to you.

SPEAKER_03 4:44

I'm gonna say something else that's pretty disgusting as well. It's never been washed ever, but it smells like my mum's perfume. Oh does I spray bit Britney Spears midnight? Because that's what she wears, so it smells like my mum's perfume. But she's got wings. She has, she's got she's a fairy, she's she's a fairy. Yeah, no, she's a fit angel. No, she's a fairy. That's so she's a little fairy, but it's my favourite thing ever. And when you're asked if there's anything that I could bring in, I thought I need to bring my mum in. Because this actually helped me a lot, you know. It really did. It it's like because I used to have a dressing gown when my mum went away, and I've said this story on the podcast before. It smelt like my mum. So when she first went away, I was going through like ambiguous loss, disenfranchised grief. So I grabbed it, I grabbed the dressing gown and I'd smell it, and I had cuddling it and stuff like that. So when I had this, I thought, oh my god, upgrades. What? It's my actual mum.

SPEAKER_02 5:41

Um this morning, Liv was in the taxi on the way to Liverpool podcast studios, and she said to me on the phone, um, I've got my mum with me, and I genuinely, genuinely thought we were gonna have a podcast with Liv's mum, but it was the fairy dog. Well, maybe we'll give you a point.

SPEAKER_03 5:58

We'll get my mum on it. Um, but no, she'd love to be, she's you know me, mum, she'd eat it up. Yeah, she's eat it up. She'd be the star, she'd take over us. I know, she'd be like, Can I help us next week? I'd be like, No, mum, you can't. Um but do you know what? That was one of the things that helped me a lot, and it went in my missing you box.

SPEAKER_02 6:17

Let's just remind everyone what a missing you box is. Do you want to? Yeah, so it is. Um, we've briefly mentioned this, I think, before on the podcast, but um, it's sometimes quite a nice idea to get a box and put things in it that you can, you know, like a like a kind of a comfort blanket box, if you like. Um, things that remind you of the person that you're missing. Sometimes if you get letters from from the prison, you can put them in there. Sometimes if you make things, you can put them in there. And when they come out, you can, you know, you can present them with the box and all the kind of memories. And I guess it's like a tangible resource because sometimes when you've got grief and it's it's stuck in your head, you don't, you know, children especially, they don't know what to do with that grief or how to art articulate their feelings. Um, so I've definitely found over the years that children do sometimes find it helpful to have this kind of special box or or bag of things that remind them of the person that's away that they can go to as a as a as a comfort.

SPEAKER_03 7:23

Um I absolutely loved the missing new box because I think at the time my mum was away. I'm not old by the way, I'm 25. But when I was away, there was no such thing as like um being able to video call or FaceTime or anything like that. Um I had to old school in and write letters, guys. Um, literally. And but you know what? It was my favourite thing because I used to go the Herman Bargain write. I'd buy the A4 paper, I'd buy all the pens, I'd buy stickers, and I'd make like um like letters to my mum, but we'd like draw on it or draw like little hearts on it, or draw each other pictures, and I'd send like pictures into there, and I've still my mum still actually, what I'm gonna do on the next podcast, which I'll write in the notes on my phone, I'll bring in some of the letters so you can look at like what they look like now. Like we keep all of our letters out.

SPEAKER_02 8:15

I think letters are a gorgeous thing to have.

SPEAKER_03 8:18

It is. I've got my mum's handwriting off one of the letters and got it tattooed on me. Um and same with me nanny ginge, me nanny ginge, I think me and nanny ginge wrote this one to my mum, and I could say, love always nanny ginge. So I got that tattooed on my arm, and then me and my mum actually had a little bit of beef over this because I got my mum's name tattoos above the top of it, and my mum's name's Melanie, gorgeous name. Um so I got that tattooed on me, and she said, but it doesn't say mum. And I was like, No one know, but anyone can have a tattoo of mum. Like you're you're you're Melanie, you're you're my mum.

SPEAKER_00 8:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 8:56

So she wants me to get mummy Melanie and get mummy tattoos over the top of Melanie. I thought you're having me on love. No, that's not happening. She still thinks it's happening, but it's not. I'm not getting more tattooing.

SPEAKER_02 9:05

You are getting more and more tattoos as time goes on. I actually am.

SPEAKER_03 9:08

I've got the angel numbers on my hands as well. But my mum loves me and my mum, actually, my mum, you won't be able to see it, but um, I've got a butterfly tattoo on the top of my neck, and it's the same butterfly that my mum's got on the top of her neck, so we've got matching butterfly tattoos. That's so nice. Yeah, but all my tattoos are meaningful, I think. I've always wanted to get tattoos when I was little. I when I my mum was away and I used to go in on a visit to see her. I used to draw all the time, didn't I?

SPEAKER_02 9:35

Yeah, you could always been a writer and a drawer.

SPEAKER_03 9:37

The woman there, uh Nicole, taught me how to draw eyes. Yeah. And I used to draw like little tattoos and like rip them off and like place them on where I wanted them, or like design my own tattoos and stuff.

SPEAKER_02 9:48

And I and I think that's it. I think like when you're struggling with any kind of trauma, like it's like what I going back to the missing you box or drawing or writing, it's the act of physically doing something I think can help can be quite cathartic. So, which leads us in really nicely because you have always been such an amazing writer. Um, you have written many poems about your mum, and I know we did read one of them one time, but there's a few other ones that I absolutely love.

SPEAKER_03 10:20

I know what one you love. You like magic wands.

SPEAKER_02 10:23

That's the one I was trying to remember it last night when I was thinking I really wanted to read, yeah, Magic Wand.

SPEAKER_03 10:29

So I actually wrote this when I was a lot older, to be honest, and I think what it was was as I was getting older, for me, creativity, writing, music, um, everything has been, everything creates creatively as being my my outlet. And I think like creativity kind of saved me, like me drama, me music, me art. I threw myself headfirst into it. And you know, growing up, like a lot of people who are new, weren't really into that. Like they weren't really into like writing or things like that, and I think for me, my family's always been very creative anyway. Like, yeah, you're from a musical family, from a very musical family and a creative family. So writing helped me a lot, and I think I it weren't that lot. I wrote this in 2023. It's beautiful. So I was 23 when I wrote this, but I put myself in a in a mindset of how I was when I because I always say to you, I've got me who is me, and then there's eight-year-old me that's still there. So anything that happens that can like trigger a trauma, I revert back to an eight-year-old, and like my brain takes me back there. So in that moment where I was triggered by something, yeah, I wrote this and I wrote it in about 10 minutes. That's hearing it. Yeah. So this is called magic wand. Cotez. To my daughter, if I could wave my magic wand, I would make all the monsters disappear under the bed, they can come and find me instead. To my daughter, if I could wave my magic wand, I would make all your worries wash away and put them in my special box where they would stay. To my daughter, if I could wave my magic wand, I would take all your pain that you feel in your chest and carry all that on my shoulders instead. To my mum, if I could wave my magic wand, I would make all the monsters disappear in your head so that they can come to me instead. To my mum, if I could wave my magic wand, I will make all your worries wash away and put them in my special box where they can stay. To my mum, if I could wave my magic wand, I would take all that pain you feel in your chest and put it on my shoulders instead. Dear mum, I'm sorry my magic wand stopped working. The monsters in your head came back, haunting me under my bed. My worries couldn't wash away, I couldn't find the difference between mine and yours, so they all had to stay. Your shoulders are too heavy to carry all my pain, so I keep it in my chest. I can't keep it tame. Wow.

SPEAKER_02 13:00

There were so many layers. I think so many layers.

SPEAKER_03 13:04

I think the thing with that poem was like it was it's the idea of like bedtime as a child was like my thing, like my bedtime routine of having stories read to me, having that one-to-one where you're having such a busy day. Yeah, you get that one-to-one at bedtime, and you know, like as a child, like to that was the I wanted that to make a whole book called like not your usual bedtime stories, and I still think I'm gonna work on that. And it was more about like when you have that moment between the child and the parent, that is the strongest bonding moment, I think, is when you're putting them to bed.

SPEAKER_02 13:39

I agree.

SPEAKER_03 13:40

And the memories of growing up, you have them from your bedtime of your mum reading you a story, putting you to sleep, giving you a dummy, giving you a kiss, good night. So my mum used to tell me stories when I was younger, or like read me books, and I've always had books read to me. My nanny Carol, who's actually coming on the podcast, she used to read a lot of stories to me. And she, um, my mum when the idea of her telling me a story and protecting me, and I got that from that was where I got the idea from. And then as you get older, it was more like me telling back to my mum, well, you you're protecting me, I'm gonna protect you, and that's where the vibe come from. And then the dear mum at the end, as you can tell, I put dear mum instead of two mum.

SPEAKER_00 14:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 14:25

And the dear mum is to show, like, obviously, I'm older now, and this is where this is where I'm at mentally with the trauma. Like, I I I carried so much of what you went through and what I went through, and I carried it all. But then I didn't let you carry any of mine because I didn't want to make you feel like you were in a worse position than what you already was, and I wanted to protect you at all costs to the point where it does get too much, and it does start to affect relationships and friendships and life and careers and what you want to do. Like, I love my mum to pieces, and she's my whole world, and I will protect her at all costs, no matter what. But I struggled as I got older to separate my life from her life, yeah. And no matter what I did, I wanted her to be there constantly, and I needed to protect her constantly. I could go through a few weeks, and something could be happening. And the first thing I think about is my mum, like oh, Jenny's getting married, um, and I'm a bridesmaid at a wedding, and I just can't stop thinking, like, who's gonna get my mum ready, who's gonna do it, who's gonna do this, who's gonna do that, but that's not my role to do. But I'll always think like that because of the position I've been in since I was young. And I think what what creativity what the creativity is being able to do for me is allow myself to separate that and let me have me, and let me have fill my own cup and have my own space.

SPEAKER_02 15:51

Yeah, and it's so cathartic. And I think so many people growing up with a parent in prison would relate to that poem on so many levels, and the amount of young people that I've spoken to through Time Matters and over the years that have, you know, just little things like if they're they're having a phone call to to more and more dad in prison, they perhaps haven't offloaded, you know, their own worries because they don't want to put their worries on the person in prison because the the children are definitely taking on that role of trying to protect their parents. Um, so I I do think a lot of our young people will hold back and say, you know, I'm fine, everything's fine, when perhaps they're not fine that week, but they they they want to be strong. It's the it's often the children being strong for the parents, yeah, and trying to trying to fix things. And I think that goes back to some of the conversations we've had with young people about guilt, um, where sometimes young people will say, I feel really, really guilty that my parents are in prison. And and I'm like, Why, why, why do you feel guilty? And they're like, Well, you know, maybe maybe I should have got my dad to have better mates, or maybe I could have persuaded my mum not to do X, Y, and Z. And I'm like, what at 10? At 11. But what you're saying and what what like I hear in those layers of the poem is not just your story, but so many, so many kids' stories. Um, but it but but amazing how you've used, and I I obviously know you like so, so, so, so well. And I think all birthdays and Christmases, I always buy you notebooks, don't I? Because you journal like crazy. And I would say to any family out there listening, you know, if if your child or yourself, you know, as the grandparent, auntie, uncle, whoever, can do something creative for yourself, whether it's journaling, music, writing.

SPEAKER_03 17:46

I still have that notebook that you bought me, and it's a Harry Potter one. It was the first notebook I got off you. I remember. And that's when I started journaling. Because I had the memory book as well that had all my friends and stuff in it. But I honestly, if journaling's like the best thing I've ever done in my life, even if you don't journal and draw a picture, or you'll write a word down or just scribble on a page. Literally, if you're angry or you're upset, get a pen, get a paper, scribble. Yeah, there's there's journals out there as well, which I recommend just getting. If you're not really into journaling, it's like it's like a book, a journal book that you can destroy basically. So the page will tell you, um, like do something to this page. So it'll be like um scrumple this page up and put it back in. Yeah, or such a good idea, or um paint this page red and do this on it, and it tells you like what you can do in the book and you can fill the journal up. Yeah, and it's really, really good, and it's it's an easy way to get into journaling. Even looking at journal and prompts, um like on Instagram, on TikTok, because your algorithm will get used to it then, and um, it gives you like journal and prompts. If you struggle, ChatGPT gives you journal and prompts.

SPEAKER_02 18:58

Just getting you and it and it doesn't it links back to the missing, missing you box and things like it's it's getting whatever's stuck inside your head, or sometimes people feel it in their chest or their stomach out in some healthy kind of way. Yeah um so like bringing us back then to the idea of you know what's helpful and and and what is isn't helpful, I I think that's really, really good tips. But if there's like a I don't know, a teacher or a social worker or a a charity worker out there and they're thinking, okay, there's a child I know, mum or dad's away, you know, what what are the little tips? I something that something that one young person said recently and it really stuck with me is go slow with us. And I really thought about that and I thought, yeah, you can rush, you can push kids, you know. Do you want to talk? Do you want, you know, how can we help? And I I think when people are going through trauma and shock and all those tricky emotions, I think you've got to go slow.

SPEAKER_03 20:06

You've got to go as slow as possible. You need to understand that. Like every the way the way uh the way everyone in life experiences grief differently and processes grief differently, every child with a parent in prison processes it differently. There's children out there who don't want to don't want support and that's okay. Yeah. There's children out there who don't who don't want to talk about it and that's okay. There's children out there who don't want to have contact and that's okay.

SPEAKER_00 20:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 20:35

There's children out there who crave contact, and I think it's everyone's individualised to their story, so you have to take it slow because you've got to understand the child and you've got to build trust with that child before you can even touch them waters.

SPEAKER_02 20:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 20:52

Because if you that child doesn't trust you and you can't be a trusted adult to them, you're never gonna get anything from them. And at the end of the day, the you know, they could come to you, and this is another thing as well. You know, I remember when being younger, if I was struggling, if I was struggling, that's when I'd be able to go to my teacher's office or my mentor's office, or if I was having a bad day, that's when I could go to my teacher's office. Sometimes it's not a bad day, but sometimes you need to switch your brain off. So a child could be in school and looking like they're living the best life ever and that they're happy and oh, they've had a really good day today, but then next lesson they come into your office and go, Can I just sit here for 10 minutes? They're decompressing. A lot of the time they need to decompress because they're putting a mask on and you know, or they have had a good day in school, but sometimes when they have such a good day in school, they can then feel guilty about having a good day in school because they can't stop thinking about the parents who's away. So you never it's it's always give and take. So you have to let them lead, give them. The voice, you know, children's voice, that's all we talk about constantly. Like, you need to a lot of I I'd personally say, look up pace training. That's so weird.

SPEAKER_02 22:10

That is we are telepathic. What the hell? I wrote down a couple of notes, not that I and I and can I just say have you wrote pace? Discuss pace, and I think that is what we need to pace training.

SPEAKER_03 22:25

I've done pace training in my job role. Do you want to explain what Peace stands for?

SPEAKER_02 22:30

Yeah, so so we absolutely um encompass the principles of PACE at Time Matters. It's uh an approach uh that was developed by a guy called Dan Hughes, and PACE um stands it's an acronym. So P is for playfulness. So, you know, that this week we 47 of us from Time Matters went to the zoo. Um, and uh during that time a few families came up to me and had some some conversations that they needed to have that were not about the animals that you know, they were about probation or or or whatever else. But you needed that playful environment for people to relax and be able to come over and talk. And that's not even just for kids, that's that's for adults. We all need to play. So P is for playfulness. Um the A of pace is acceptance, you know, just just accept people for who they are, where they're at. You don't try to challenge.

SPEAKER_03 23:29

Yeah, I would I don't challenge you. I always say, don't challenge the behaviour, you accept for what's going on in the moment. If that child's angry and they they're destroying a room or they're they're doing something that they can't process what's going on in their head to bring into their mouths to get out in words. That's the only way they can, and you've just got to accept that in that moment in time, like you have to. Yeah, you can talk about the behaviours and things afterwards, but in that time frame, they need acceptance. That's what they need in that environment.

SPEAKER_02 23:59

100%. Accept them, accept their their viewpoints, accept everything as as valid, you know, even if you don't, you know, agree with it, acceptance is key. These last two are my favourite, sorry. C stands for curiosity, and it's just, and I think that's I think that's who we are as people, but like just being like, I just love people. I love finding out about people, but like tell me about that, you know, without being too intrusive, obviously, but but openly curious.

SPEAKER_03 24:29

Yeah, openly curious, but you can be internally curious as well. You need to think like instead of thinking, oh, why are they doing that and acting in that way? Just change the way you're thinking in your process and be like, I wonder why they're doing that. Yeah. So it is still why they're doing it, but it's not like a I'm fuming that they've done that, or you know, why on earth would they do that? It's more like a I wonder why they're doing it, what's going on, what why does this help them? What's the reason that this helps them? And be curious about it, but make it work for you.

SPEAKER_02 25:03

Yeah, we like definitely at time matters. I would say, like, the early sessions when we first get into know the child, we're not even talking about parental imprisonment necessarily unless they want to straight off the bat. It's like, what are you into? What music do you listen to? Yeah, do you you know, do you have a pet? Do you like dogs? You know, like who do you support?

SPEAKER_03 25:22

I've been covered in slime, I've been finding Lego in my pockets. Yeah, I've I I think there was one school who was probably absolutely fuming with me because I got fur colouring and shaving foam all over the table.

SPEAKER_02 25:36

Yeah, my biggest advice is just don't use glitter. Yeah, never goes away.

SPEAKER_03 25:40

Never, never ever, ever use glitter. I've still got glitter coming out of my nose.

SPEAKER_02 25:46

I've got glitter from my practice from about 15 years ago. Don't never goes away. It doesn't, it sticks in your hair and everything.

SPEAKER_03 25:52

Oh even so I never do glitter, that's where I draw the line.

SPEAKER_02 25:56

So playfulness, acceptance, curiosity. And the last one is empathy.

SPEAKER_03 26:03

Now I'm a big empath. Like I am a massive empath. I feel everything. I feel energies, I feel everyone's pain, stories. Like I'm not one of them to go. I understand what you're going through. I relate to what you're going through because necessarily I don't. Yeah, I can feel your emotion in that time. If you if you're coming across to me as stressed and upset, I will feel that and I will empathise with that and I will do anything in my power to help you and to get away from that. Like I have a lot of people, a lot of friends who suffer with like anxiety or being out in public or social situations, and I'm so quick to pick up on people's body language and their emotions. I can do it over text. If someone's texting me or they're on FaceTime or anything like that, I'm so quick to pick up.

SPEAKER_01 26:55

You just you're in tune. You tune in.

SPEAKER_03 26:58

But with empathy, I'm gonna tell you straight off the bat now. That doesn't mean that you jump in and go, Oh, what's up with Joe? What's going on? No. If you sense the mood, you send you you can feel it in a room, you can. You know a child, you know a child, you know that there's a reason why they act in the way they act, or there's a reason they're showing this certain behaviour. There's always a reason behind it. You just need to do the correct approach, which would be therapeutic. Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 27:26

Slowly and with kindness, let them leave. Um, but yeah, um so short and sweet today. Yeah, um, because we're the next three episodes, we've got three amazing guests fingers crossed if they turn up and they find us. She best turn up.

SPEAKER_03 27:42

I'll be ringing her in a minute. But just quick before we close it off, if you could wave your magic wand. We love that.

SPEAKER_02 27:49

We usually finish with gratitude, but we can finish with magic wands.

SPEAKER_03 27:53

I'm feeling like I love that. Magic.

SPEAKER_02 27:57

Wow. Oh god, uh, I need a minute. Um, if I could wave my magic wand right now, because we're the I mean, this is quite a big one, but right now we have been doing a big scoping exercise with the UK government about the um the new manifesto for children of prisoners. And I guess if I could wave my magic wand, I just hope, I hope to goodness that we've been effectively listened to. Um and that when the manifesto is rolled out, it really, really does reflect what children and families really want.

SPEAKER_03 28:32

I agree. I got excited then, I nearly knocked the mic over. I know, I've been knocking the table over. I've literally just like KO'd the mic then. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry.

SPEAKER_02 28:40

Please, please, UK government leaders, please listen to us.

SPEAKER_03 28:45

With a cherry on top.

SPEAKER_02 28:47

That's my magic wand.

SPEAKER_03 28:49

If I could wave my I actually don't know, if I could wave my magic wand, mmm. I'd be, and uh, this is gonna sound so selfish. Be selfish. I'm being selfish with it. I'm being selfish with it. If I could wave my magic wand, I would be solo in a different country on my own. I've offended by myself. I'm so sorry. But I need, do you know, like when you're there, I need to be compressed. I need no phone, no social media, no nothing. And I need at least three to four weeks by myself, finding myself. I might do some like mad spiritual retreat. I just feel like I need it in my bones. Yeah. You know?

SPEAKER_02 29:34

My friends went on like a silent retreat in India recently.

SPEAKER_03 29:38

Or not in a silent one, I can't shut up. You imagine a talk for England and you expect me to be quiet. Imagine a child sheet and walking going, I and everyone, you're all right.

SPEAKER_01 29:50

Nobody's looking for me slippers, nobody spoke for months, and then you come in, no one says a word, and I'm gonna tell them everyone will be all right so hard. It's funny.

SPEAKER_02 29:59

No, wait, no, I know what you mean. You want to go and do some like that's that's a that's a magic one for next year, isn't it?

SPEAKER_03 30:05

Oh, magic one for today? Yeah, what's what's for now? What's for now? My magic one for now would be um oh god. I actually didn't even think this year. My magic wand would be for that everything just stays the way it is at the minute.

SPEAKER_02 30:24

Happy with things.

SPEAKER_03 30:25

I'm happy. I want I want the consistency to remain. I like the consistency. Oh, daddy. Jenny feels absolutely fabulous on a Wednesday, and she has a gorgeous wedding day. Gorgeous, and I hope there's an open bar. Um, but as always, thank you so much for listening. Um, being short and sweet one today. Um, next few episodes, you'll see some amazing guests. Um, thank you, Melanie, for coming on the podcast. We have to close for Melanie. Um, and as always, please tune in again soon. Okay, love you. Bye.