Voices Unlocked Ep. 17 | Nanny Carol Returns

Email us at voicesunlocked26@gmail.com

We welcome back Liv’s Nanny Carol, joking about messages praising Carol’s looks and discussing skincare and sun protection. Carol reflects on the prison visit process, including waiting with other families without judgement, preparing children for sniffer dogs, and the intense travel, queues, and anxiety involved. They discuss how visits can be especially difficult for neurodivergent children and families, mention efforts to make visits more neurodiversity-friendly, and describe Olivia’s childhood asthma and the stress of having inhalers stored in lockers. Carol talks about the fear and anger during Melanie’s release and why she couldn’t visit during the third imprisonment, while Olivia shares the mental health impact and family support. They end with gratitude for Nanny Ginger, including a brief FaceTime hello.

Chapters:
00:00 Introduction
06:10 Visit Waiting Room
08:16 Neurodiversity Challenges
12:58 Travel Day Stress
15:07 Asthma and Security
18:52 Release Day Anxiety
19:37 Teen Years Breakdown
27:29 School Contact Secret
28:47 First Visit for Megan
29:24 Posting Parcels to Prison
32:21 Scouse Comfort Culture
34:21 Watching the Film Back
36:01 Pseudonyms and Protection
46:51 Messiness and ADHD Banter
49:06 Gratitude and Nanny Ginger
52:30 Family Stories and Goodbye

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Hey guys, just a quick disclaimer as always, we do not claim to be therapists or counsellors. We are just sharing our stories of experiences that we have had from someone with lived experience and someone who is a researcher and a practitioner. When you are listening to these stories, please take care of yourselves as they can be a little bit heavy. There's some funny stories in there as well. Obviously, we are open to positivity in the comment section, please. Like I said, these are all truly based off people's lived experiences. So thank you so much, and I hope you enjoyed the episodes. Love you, bye. Hi guys, welcome back to another episode of Voices Unlocked. I'm not even gonna try and figure out what number episodes we're up to, but I was supposed to find out in another. So um, welcome back. Today, we've got someone who has been asked to come back on already because how much everyone loved it. And it's my gorgeous Nanny Carl. Nanny Carol! Welcome back! Now, honestly, Nan, there's physically no need for the amount of people who message me from your episode. Sorry, I just need to read out one of the messages I got from someone not naming any names because I'm not gonna put you out like that. Because wow, I was raging right there. This is one message that I got. Here it is. Um, you ready for this? So I put a little story up in my nan being on the podcast, and they text me saying, Must be rough that having a nan that looks younger than you. Do you know how human I was? I was like, oh and then another one, um everyone's been asking, what leave-in conditioner do you use to get your girls looking like that?

SPEAKER_03 1:44

Well, this is wash and go. Wash and go with a bit of John Frieda.

SPEAKER_01 1:49

John Frieda, come on, not just sending out samples. I know.

SPEAKER_02 1:55

Can we just start sending out three samples, please? But now I was sitting there thinking me nan's come on to speak about a daughter and a grand author, and everyone's talking about the cheekbones. Yeah, the cheekbones.

SPEAKER_01 2:06

Me and Liv watched your episode back in mine, and I sat there and went, Why has your nan got cheekbones that are so amazing? Like that. I was like, I we all family got prominent cheekbones. I've got prominent cheekbones. Cheekbones. I am jealous of you. Yeah, they are.

SPEAKER_02 2:22

But no, we're actually buzzing for me and An to be back on. Me and my nan since the podcast has come out, we've just been chatting about it and just talking about like different things. And I was saying what everyone was saying to her, and she went to me, I'm out in your name. Speaking about my nan being sponsored by Job Fleet. I come home from work, yeah. And my nan's not good with technology, she's not. It takes her three hours to send an email to someone like she's very much would rather talking person on the phone. Fair. So I've come home, yeah. Just a little story time for you. I've come home from work, I live with me nanny Carol. Um I've come home from work and she's gone, live. I've gone, what? She's gone, do you know how to unsubscribe from?

SPEAKER_01 3:02

Oh I hate being I oversubscribe to everything again.

SPEAKER_02 3:06

And I'm thinking, yeah, well, you know, see how what's going on? So she's orders a cream, and I've gone, yeah, and she's gone, no, there's three of them. And then she's gone, but there's another three of them. And I've gone, okay. Bear in mind, these creams aren't small creams, these creams are big creams, do you know what I mean? And she's gone, but there's another three on the way. So that's what she's got six creams in the house. So that'd be nice. Subscribe to them. She'd spent like 80.

SPEAKER_01 3:40

But I'm I'm always in the market for cream if you want to expect.

SPEAKER_02 3:43

She was going everyone, everyone's getting off cream. She was not going. Any man get on Vincent and tell them what you mean again on Facebook Market. You're making them off place. You're making cream that can be.

SPEAKER_03 3:58

No, honestly, she made it. You haven't got you haven't got crinkly skin or nothing. Neither of you don't start Haley, don't you?

SPEAKER_02 4:09

Do you know when I was younger? My nan used to show me. By the way, oh Hayley hasn't got crinkly skin.

unknown 4:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:16

She's beautiful. No one has. But when I was younger, my nan always used to tell me my nan was the one who got me into my skincare. My nan always used to say to me, you need to moisturize. I was about 12 and she'd go get skincare, and she'd show me how to you'd moisture how you needed to moisturise your neck because your neck was the first one to go. So she always taught me how to moisturise my skin and my skincare routine. I mean, I'm proud of it to be honest. I think I've got to be fair.

SPEAKER_01 4:39

Whatever you've done over the years, I think we all need tips. This could be a whole new podcast. No, I know. Of Nanny Carol's beauty tip. How to look so youthful at me.

SPEAKER_03 4:52

You know, black on the factor. It must you mustn't have a stress.

SPEAKER_02 4:57

I always hated a nanya mixed race, do you know what I mean? Like, because obviously my nan's my nan's dad, my granddad's Walter's black. So I always hated her. Do you know what I mean? When you're on holiday, get in that sun girl. Like, you go black and gorgeous colouring this, that, this, and she goes, No, I need me factor 50, mean more time with my own. Factor 50 is the key, people. She has an umbrella on holiday, people go into bed at dorm, and she went to me. Well, that fit in your bag. It was an umbrella. I went, Why is it going to arrange me? No, it's to protect me from the sun.

SPEAKER_01 5:23

Yeah, but it's true, you've got to protect yourself from the sun. Don't be don't be sunbasing out there, kids. Factor 50 all the way if you want to look young. I mean, don't do me.

SPEAKER_03 5:31

You still get a tan.

SPEAKER_02 5:32

Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 5:33

You do still get a tan. I still tan.

unknown 5:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:36

And on your mixed race love, you've got to tan naturally.

SPEAKER_03 5:38

I'll tan more.

SPEAKER_02 5:41

She's protecting. Yeah, okay. Fair enough. But yeah, sorry. That was just a little bit of a debrief of what's happened since the last podcast with Carol. But um, how are you feeling to be back on for the second time? Um, yeah, I'm happy.

SPEAKER_03 5:56

You're happy? Less nervous than last time. A lot more I wanted to say last time.

SPEAKER_01 6:00

Yeah, I think well, I I agree. I think we didn't touch the sides.

SPEAKER_02 6:04

We didn't, did we?

SPEAKER_01 6:05

No.

SPEAKER_02 6:05

So is there anything you want to talk about in particular today? If you had a little think of what you wanted to speak about.

SPEAKER_03 6:12

I think I'm gonna speak about going on the visits, and when you before you go into the visit, you go to this little like hold and place. I call it a hold and place, and you miss other families.

SPEAKER_01 6:27

Yeah, what's that like?

SPEAKER_03 6:31

Because they're all you're all in the same boat, aren't you? So you're all going to see a daughter, a mum, yeah, you know, uh uh a friend or whatever, and so no one judges you, and then you sit and you listen to people's stories because they tell you about the stories and stuff, and you f you get comfort from that, you get to know them, you become friends, children, then play together, and so you can sit there and you're relaxed because you know that none of them are gonna judge you, yeah, you know what I mean, and then going in and things like preparing Olivia for when they've got the police dogs because the sniffer dogs are there, and that can be terrifying for a child, by the way.

SPEAKER_01 7:21

Yeah, you know, especially if you've got a fear of dogs, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 7:24

Well, she'd like to go and stroke them.

SPEAKER_01 7:28

But you weren't allowed to stroke them. You weren't allowed, so I'd have to go live.

SPEAKER_02 7:31

I'm I'm an animal, I love dogs, I was always an animal person, but so I'd see them and I'd go, I'd like walk up, try and walk over, wouldn't I?

SPEAKER_03 7:38

And you have to stand on the So you'd have to say, listen, you can't touch the dog. And like the they'd say, Oh, the dog's name's whatever, whatever the dog's name was, Ben. Let's call the dog Ben. That's Ben, but you can say, you can look at Ben, you can smile at Ben, but you can't touch Ben. You can't speak really to Ben neither, so you just stand still.

SPEAKER_01 8:02

And that's hard for a kid to do that because it's natural, isn't it? You've either got children who are scared of dogs or children that just want to pet the dog.

SPEAKER_03 8:09

Exactly. So if you've got a child who's terrified of dogs, how bad is that situation for that child?

SPEAKER_00 8:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:16

I always think about so we we always I mean, all of our family work with people who have got special educational needs and disabilities with older, every single one of us. Like obviously, I work in the children's homie, Nan works with adults. Um a lot of other people in our family work with adults. So we're not we're we're we're not uneducated when it comes to special educational needs and disabilities. And what always used to get to me when we were what I always used to think, and I always say this, is people and children who have got uh like learning disabilities, how hard it'd be to get them on a visit. Of course.

SPEAKER_03 8:55

How hard it'd be to to go through a visit because um and all the different things what would have to be put into place for that child or that adult. Well, yeah, exactly. The person would you want to take a child with special needs or an adult with special needs to see the person? How are they gonna feel?

SPEAKER_01 9:15

How do you explain to them that that person's interestingly, we we had a a panel discussion only a week ago um with four young people from Time Matters, all of whom have got ASD and all of whom have got a parent in prison, and they were talking about you know how how difficult that situation is, you know, because you can be overstimulated, you might need, I don't know, noise cancelling headphones, you might need certain comfort things, there's a lot of different changes of temperature, there's a lot of noise, there's a lot of people. So I definitely know one girl that comes to Time Matters who who has got autism that does does visit lots of different establishments and struggles with it, but she says her younger brother, who's much more severely autistic than her, doesn't go at all. He just can't manage it, he can't manage it, and I just think you're right, it's it's hard under the best of circumstances, but if you've got those, if you've got neurodiversity, then it's it's even harder. I mean, thankfully, there are a couple of organisations at the moment that are trying their absolute best, some some prisons and some charities that are trying to make visits more neurodiverse friendly, but it's it's a long time coming.

SPEAKER_02 10:34

I mean, with my mum as well, my mum's got my mum's neurodiverse, she got aspergers, hasn't she? Yeah, she's got asperges and ADHD. It took me years to get diagnosed with ADHD to the point where my nanny Carol actually didn't know I was diagnosed with ADHD. And she went, you're not. I didn't say that. She went, you're not. I went, none, I'm diagnosed with ADHD. I've got my letter, like it's on me at NH. I went through all of it, like I've I'm diagnosed with ADHD. But my mum, because of the mix between my mum's ADHD and ASD, she becomes very heightened very quick. Yeah, it takes her like she can be fine and then takes I think I can go from naught to a hundred. And you don't expect it in seven. So my mum's not very good with change, she struggles with change, um like if something gets changed at the last minute she can't deal and she gets stressed out. So I I remember having a lot of anxiety going on a visit because I was scared and case bearing in mind my mum's always late, my mum's late to every and you'd have to tell my mum to get there at two when the party starts at six because she's not showing up till seven. Like, that's right, it's so a punctuality, she's got no concept of time.

SPEAKER_01 11:41

Time blind well, time blindness is really common, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 11:44

She's got no concept of time. So when I was when I used to like queue up to see my mum, it was like the anticipation of just wanting to get through because I'd be scared of how she was going to react when we got there if we walked into the visiting hall late, and I knew I had to leave early anyway. So I always wanted to be at the front of the queue. I always wanted to be there. You always got there early, too. Yeah, we always got there.

SPEAKER_03 12:05

It was like a her old little part, wasn't that? I hate it. But there was a a a glass panel, and through that glass panel, your mum would sit in a certain place so you'd see her, and you were dying to get in. And that would be the first thing what Olivia would do is look like that and she'd go, There she is, there she is. But Melanie could see us because we were at the front of the queue, so she'd see us, and then she'd be waving and that and smiling, and then you can see her getting anxious because the door's not opening yet.

SPEAKER_01 12:38

Yeah, there's so much anxiety on both sides, isn't it? Because you're not just worried about your own getting to the your journey, but you're anxious because you're aware that your mum's anxious. There's you know, and then you're under all that pressure with time and transport. So many people in your situation you haven't got your own transport.

SPEAKER_02 12:56

This the transport express for like half seven in the morning.

SPEAKER_01 13:01

Me and I'd get a coffee from the So were you like getting up at like five or something?

SPEAKER_02 13:05

Yeah, it got worse. It worked the establishment was horrible. Oh, it was to get the train a few times and then get a taxi from the train station.

SPEAKER_03 13:13

You know, when you say getting a train a few times, we'd get on, we'd have to leave like at seven in the morning. We'd get on very, very early train, which took hours. We'd get to the train station, we'd have to get a taxi. The taxi was between 15 and 20 pounds to get to the place. We'd be in there, we'd have a pack lunch with us, so we'd have the pack lunch on the train or just waiting, and then it'd take another uh uh hour before we got in. Then it was an hour and a half, and then we've got another taxi back to the train station. She'd gone through crying. She's crying because she doesn't want to leave her mum, yeah. Of course, and so then we've got all that travelling home, tired. Now, most of the time when we got the train, my mum ginge was with us. Um back then, my mum was very mobile. Yeah, she's not very mobile now, my mum. But my mum's the matriarch of the family, you know. What she says goes, yeah, our ginge, and so she would be the one. This is where we're going, this is what time we've got to be there, you've got to be up ready at this time, the trains this time, because my mum worked yeah, she worked on the trains, that was our whole career, wasn't it? All the times she knew everything, she knew everyone as well, yeah. And so it was easier when we were with my mum.

SPEAKER_01 14:42

Yeah. Because the the visit, the the you know, the the difficulties and the stress of the visit, even though you know you you wanted to go on them, and of course you want that contact, it's not just the visit itself, it's it's an entire day.

SPEAKER_03 14:55

It's a the whole day. We'd go home. We'd start off seven o'clock in the morning, we'd get home like late. Eight, eight o'clock in the morning. Then just go to bed knacked.

SPEAKER_02 15:07

I used to so when I was younger, I mean I've still got asthma now, but my asthma was really bad when I was little. Yeah, like I remember that to the point where people would get worried to upset me because when I cry, I'd cry that much that I I'd have an asthma attack, I couldn't move.

SPEAKER_03 15:24

And that was another thing because those we had to take those um inhalers with us. They were taken off us.

SPEAKER_01 15:29

Yeah, so you couldn't take them into the visit. No. So then what if you had an asthma attack in the visit? Being a man, the lots of people.

SPEAKER_03 15:34

Well, that's what I asked them, and they said they'd go and get it.

SPEAKER_01 15:37

But yeah, but then what if that could take time? You have to go through quite a lot of gates, don't you?

SPEAKER_02 15:42

We had to hand them in. So, like with my asthma, I'd go from zero to like I'd go from zero to to up there. And it was a lot of it would mainly be me nanny Carol, because if I couldn't breathe, my mum would panic and she'd shout, breathe, breathe, breathe. And my nanny ginger, she'd be terrible in the situation as well. Where me nanny Carol was quite good in it. So me nanny Carol would just be like, calm down, can't, but I'd cried that much that I'd get pains in my chest, then I'd get scared of the pains in my chest, which would panic me more. So my asthma used to get kicked off from anxiety, so I'd have anxiety attacks or panic attacks that'd turn into an asthma attack.

SPEAKER_01 16:17

Right.

SPEAKER_02 16:18

But where the inhalers were, you'd have to put them in lockers. Lockers? That was at the beginning of the where the prison entrance was, and it used to take you 20 minutes to get through to the prison entrance anyway.

SPEAKER_01 16:29

So which is anxiety-provoking, which ironically can then cause you to have the asthma.

SPEAKER_02 16:34

Yeah, so that was one of the and it was in both police establishments that was.

SPEAKER_03 16:38

See, I don't know what the protocol is now because that we're going back to when she's going back, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:44

I mean, and and and uh, you know, there's definitely been some improvements in some establishments, but I think it's again it's been slow progress. But yeah, PACT, for example, you know, so big shout out to PACs because they've just been doing a whole uh they run a lot of the the visitors centres in a lot of a lot of establishments, and they've just been doing a whole um project really on making sure that their visits are more neurodiverse friendly, training the staff, but also making sure that the visitors know what their rights are. And I when I went to the COPE conference in um in Milan at uh about a week ago, I was listening to their presentation, and one of the really interesting things that I learned was that what what is happening in some establishments that is that you know a family would say, Oh, you know, my daughter's got ADHD, for example, and then some of the officers there were saying, Well, we need to see evidence to we need proof. That's right, yeah. But now they can't ask because you can if the the whole neurodiversity agenda now is that if you identify as having any particular thing like ADHD, you don't you don't have to prove it. You you can just say, I do have it's your right now, which I didn't realise. It's your right to say, no, I am autistic or I have got ASD or or whatever, and that that that has to be accepted. And so hopefully there is gonna be a a much greater movement for people that really, really need um a little bit more care during things like prison visits. Perhaps they can go in on a quieter visit, perhaps they can go for you know in earlier. Um and and and hopefully there's gonna be um things like noise cancelling headphones being made available if you know children get overstimulated. So that is needed, there is progress, I have to say. Um and I know and I know there has been yeah, progress, but equally it doesn't take away how stressful it is.

SPEAKER_02 18:47

Do you know when so do you know when I we spoke about this in the other episodes? So obviously when me mum went away, so you've experienced my mum going away three different times at three different important stages of my life. I know. When you think about it, the first time she was pregnant, the second time I was eight, and then the third time I was a teenager.

SPEAKER_03 19:17

Out of all of them, the teenager one was the worst time. Told ya.

SPEAKER_01 19:22

I was just gonna ask that question, which fought what what you talked about on our last episode.

SPEAKER_02 19:27

On the last episode I spoke about how I was um I did some things that I don't even think you know about, yeah. Um You might have to listen to the last episode. You might have to listen to the last episode, but basically, um I was just saying that when she went away for the third time was it was a period of time in my life where my mental health was bad, bad. It was in the gutter. Yeah, it was. Um I weren't really attending school, I was in and out of hospital. She was. Um and I think very selfishly at that time because uh when I look back, I think I was thinking very selfishly at the time because obviously Uncle Saul was sick as well. So you'd had a daughter who had a s a sick husband fiance with three boys that she had to look after, um, and then you'd had a daughter who was away in prison again, and then I moved in with you, didn't I? And I just wanted to know like what what it was like for you, because I've never really asked ya about that period of time because I know that you didn't visit me mum on the third time and I understand that I was gonna I I was gonna talk about this.

SPEAKER_03 20:44

I said to her first of all, can I can I just uh speak about when she came home, of course, and then we'll we'll we'll touch on that again because this is part of the reason why um when she came home yeah I was happy I was also terrified because she'd come home with a a tag on her leg. She came home, didn't she? She came home, um where's the party? I said, I beg your pardon. She went, Where's my party? Is am I having a surprise party? This is on the way. I I went, no, you're not. You're not having no surprise party, there's nothing there for you. A couple of friends have knocked and stuff. My mum would laid a table out like a bit of a party. She went, no, I've got to give her a party. Oh. Right, so my mother laid your own from jail. And that's fine.

SPEAKER_01 21:40

No, and she wanted to make a bit of a fuss of I understand that. I was having to be welcoming.

SPEAKER_03 21:45

But then I'm thinking, who are these people knocking on the door?

SPEAKER_01 21:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 21:50

These people haven't given the time of day. But the minute she's out, they're knocking on the door now.

SPEAKER_01 21:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 21:56

What what what do they want? Then it's where you go. What time are you going to be back? Don't forget you've got to be back by seven. Oh, that was the most anxiety little bit. It gave me absolute grief. Anxiety was waiting. I'd be going, it's quarter to seven. Where is she? Being a man. She never had a phone. She never had a phone. And then I'd be pacing up and down in the street looking for her. And then she'd come down. Oh.

SPEAKER_01 22:26

Yeah, I don't think people really fully appreciate how tricky release is.

SPEAKER_03 22:31

Yeah, because she just wants to get out now and enjoy herself. Oh, I'm free.

unknown 22:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:37

Where are you?

SPEAKER_03 22:38

What are you doing? You're not actually free because the minute that you're back in, you know, and then I'm I'm angry because why did you why? Why would you do this again to her?

SPEAKER_01 22:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 22:55

You know, I need to protect her. She's being brought up at everything. We've given her everything. Beautiful holidays. She's been to Disney World twice, loads of different holidays. She's got uh her aunties who adore her, her other aunties got uh a tattoo with her name on her back, her other aunties, the all lover, my uncles, her uncle, yeah, me uncle Josh surrounded by her. Surrounded by love, but all she cries out for is the love and the protection of her mum. That's which what she wanted. His mum. That's what every child you can give that child the world, but at the end of the day, they want nothing.

SPEAKER_01 23:40

Absolutely nothing.

SPEAKER_03 23:41

But the love from the mum. Yeah, why aren't you home with your daughter? Why aren't you doing this as a family? No, you just want to get out. So I was quite angry with her all the time.

SPEAKER_01 23:54

Absolutely understandable to feel that way.

unknown 23:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:57

And then I said, Don't you ever, ever, ever do this again? Don't put your daughter through this ever again. I won't, I promise ya. And then when it happened, I went, she was going, Mum, mum, can I have this, this, this, and this? And went, No, no.

unknown 24:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 24:18

I was fuming with her. How could you put her through this yet again at the age that she was?

SPEAKER_01 24:26

Yeah. And and and I absolutely, absolutely understand that. And I think that's a good idea.

SPEAKER_03 24:30

And I said, I can't do this again. I couldn't. My anxiety wouldn't allow me to do it again. I just needed to protect it. I said, I'm that's it. I'm I'm I'm not going to visit. Yeah. She wasn't in that long, was she?

SPEAKER_02 24:44

She was it she done 12 months. It was supposed to be longer than 12 months. It was supposed to be longer, but she put in for an appeal and then all that business.

SPEAKER_03 24:52

Yeah, she got it was it was less than 12 months. Yeah, it was like eight, eight months. Between six and eight. Yeah. But I I couldn't visit her. Oh, don't get me wrong. I did send her the postal orders and whatever and and bits and stuff, and and I sent, but I couldn't visit, I couldn't go back to that place.

SPEAKER_01 25:12

Yeah, of course.

SPEAKER_03 25:13

Well, I think it traumatised me that much that I couldn't physically go back to that place.

SPEAKER_01 25:18

I I absolutely completely understand.

SPEAKER_03 25:20

And if that makes me a bad parent. And absolutely doesn't at the end. I couldn't do it.

SPEAKER_01 25:25

There'll be so many people that relate to every single word that you've said, people that I've met over the years that'll just go, that was me. I understand. And that anxiety of release of where are they? What kind of people are they hanging out with? Is something gonna happen to them? And and the amount of people that have said to me in a in a weird way, it it's it's easier sometimes when somebody is inside because you know that they're safe. And in fact, you've even said that to me. Like sometimes I don't know. I'm gonna be completely honest, like safe.

SPEAKER_02 25:57

I'm gonna be completely honest right now. I say all the time, like even to this day, like when I don't see my mum and she's been gone for a while, I say, I'd rather just be in jail. Yeah, I'd rather now I'd rather be in jail. And I think it's just that that it's so mad as well how I've grew up with it. Like I've I would I was sh I was in her belly at one point when she first went. The second time was the time and age where I just wanted my mum, and like I missed my mummy, you know what I mean. I'm little, I just want my mummy. At 13, my hormones were all over the place. I was so sad. I I just couldn't comprehend like why me. Why is this happening to me? And I felt guilty because I was like, everyone, I know how much I'm loved. Like I can never be more grateful for the family. I'm so so lucky. I'm one of the luckiest people in the earth to have a family that I've got I've got, not just on my mum's side, but on my dad's side. Like the way me nanny Liz and my granddad John love me wholeheartedly. Do you know what I mean? Like I was adored, even my auntie Kara and my auntie Brenda, they all love me so wholeheartedly, and so does my mum's side, me and like my nan said, me aunties and all that. So I felt so guilty for my mental health being so bad to the point where I couldn't pinpoint of why I felt so low and why I wanted to act like this. And I mentioned in another episode when I was in school, you and the emergency contact. Yeah, but I changed it without you knowing.

SPEAKER_03 27:36

Oh, you never? Yeah, I did.

SPEAKER_02 27:37

Changed it without you knowing, yeah. Who to? To I'll give my mum's old number when she was in jail and give her the old address. So when I got letters sent, I'll go to the old address, and when they'd bring my mum it wouldn't go through.

SPEAKER_01 27:47

I found that out on the last episode.

SPEAKER_02 27:50

And I did if I didn't I know and I did that because I said to Lorna, I was so scared to face the repercussions of what was going on. I was too scared to face because I was I was good in school, I was a good kid. I was never naughty I would naughty, I don't like that word, but you know I was a good kid, I always was, I was respectful to to all my adults and all the people, and I think the fact that I was able to do that in school is an issue in itself. We won't get into that. Um but I remember the school ringing you when I went into hospital, and that's when all the information got changed back, and that's when the school found out that all the information got changed back, and that's when I moved back into your house. Because I was living in between me and Liz's, I was living in between different houses, I didn't have a base really. And then that's when you were like, No, you know that's it, that's it, you're coming home, like you're coming, you're coming to to live with me. And that was the period of time where my mum went away. So when my mum went away, I did visit her, I did guarantee her. Um did me mum. Me and Nanny Ginger. It was me, me and Annie Ginger went, that was Megan, was the first time Megan had ever been on a visit. That's right, yeah. Um and I remember Megan sobbing coming out and Megan was 12, 13 at the time. It was the first time she's ever experienced anything like that.

SPEAKER_01 29:07

That was her first visit.

SPEAKER_02 29:07

That was her first visit, and I remember because of the way I weren't brave enough to say to my mum, no, I wasn't. You know, I wasn't, I'd never tell my mum no. She would go, no, leave her alone. Like you just leave her alone. And my mum would ring me for things. Can you send, can you go to Primark for me? And can you get this, that, this? And my granddad John loved her like his own daughter. Oh god, yeah, he did. He did. My dad's dad loved me mum.

SPEAKER_01 29:38

I always remember you saying that actually, how much he loved her.

SPEAKER_02 29:41

And it's because it and he always used to say to me, She gave me you. My nanny Liz and my granddad John said the same, she gave me you. I was the first girl, they lost so many girls that they loved her. So my granddad would give me money to go to Primarch to get stuff to get buy her stuff, and I'd have to I'd go in my school uniform in the morning with the parcel into the post office, and the parcel would say HMP, whatever on it, and that's where that was born. I was telling you about the movie. That like that that's what that's what I'd do.

SPEAKER_01 30:12

It's only in the movie, isn't it? In like one line, but it it's there enough to go how hard it is that kids do.

SPEAKER_03 30:20

Yeah, you picked out loads of everything, the dressing gowns, the dressing gown scene that breaks me.

SPEAKER_01 30:27

I I've watched that film now I don't know how many times, and because I know Liv so well, and I remember years ago, even way before we made the movie, you talking about going to sleep with the dressing gown. And to this day, every time I look at like the character picking up the dressing gown, I just think of you and can't because it it hits me chest.

SPEAKER_02 30:48

I do I do it to do what I still do it to this day. I've still got the dressing gown. I've still got the dressing gown. Dressing gowns are a big thing, can't be. Well, what is it? Is it like the fuck house?

SPEAKER_01 30:57

No, no, I was just gonna say I'm very happy that you say dressing gown because I say house coat.

SPEAKER_02 31:01

I'm only saying dressing gown. Do you say dressing gown or house coat?

SPEAKER_01 31:06

Is it house coat or dressing gown?

SPEAKER_02 31:08

I say both. Uh you do do both.

SPEAKER_01 31:11

No, I say dress coat.

SPEAKER_02 31:12

Yeah, I've heard you say both, but I say how where's my house coat? House coat?

SPEAKER_03 31:16

Well, I've got Melanie has got a thing about house coats. No, she has. She calls them house coats, she calls them house coats. Um so every time she goes into hospital, it's can I have two pairs of pajamas, new slippers, a new house coat. Um and then I said she said, Can I my best friend passed away and she bought me I have a thing about leopard print. Oh, it's passed on. It's passed on, it's passed on. She bought me a beautiful, beautiful, long to the floor dressing gown, thick leopard print with a hood on. And she goes, Mum, mum, can I borrow your dressing gown? No, it's the house coat. Can I borrow your house coat? And I go, Yeah, but I want it back. Right. She bought me two, she bought me a black one, didn't she? And the brown one. And uh so I lent her while she was in hospital. Never got it back. She hasn't seen it since I haven't seen it since. I haven't seen it since.

SPEAKER_02 32:20

My mum, my mum's so bad. So when my nanny Liz passed away, I got all of her like dressing guns. Dressing gowns and the house coats. The house coats and the dressing gowns for for scousers are the big thing. If you don't if you don't know about it, get to know about it. Your slippers and your dressing gown. I would walk the shop in that dressing gown. No, no, you don't go to the shop in pajamas. She wouldn't be over here. No, no, no. I would. I would. I don't care how I walk out that house. I don't I walk out the house in a dressing gown and a pair of slippers. I love it. I don't care. People see me all the time. Margie sees me and Margie always goes, I love Easter clothes as well. Can I just Easter clothes?

SPEAKER_01 32:57

I'm not Easter from Liverpool, but I've lived here longer than I've lived anywhere else, so I feel like I'm gonna adopt Easter. Listen, I I came to Liverpool. I'm like, you know, my family, we we buy an Easter egg. You get an Easter egg to clothes when you get an Easter egg, everybody gets loads of new clothes.

SPEAKER_02 33:17

I'm like, yeah, new pair of you need a new pair of chainies and then an Easter tracking. Even on Boxing Day when we were younger, you'd have your Christmas Day clothes, but then you'd have a Boxing Day trackie. Oh no, my girls had dresses. I got I gotta drink. I gotta dress. I got a gap tracky. Easter bonnet.

SPEAKER_03 33:36

Easter bonnet. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:37

No, we'd I'd have an Easter dress, I wouldn't have Easter. I wouldn't have on Boxing Day, I'd have uh like a DK and Y tracky or like a gap trackie.

SPEAKER_01 33:46

It's not going off track now. I'm talking about Easter clothes.

SPEAKER_02 33:49

But on the day, on Christmas Day, I'd have clothes, but Easter, Easter, it was always my Easter clothes, wearing it. But it does link into it because when my mum was away, my mum asked for Easter clothes. Yeah, that's what I was getting to. My mum would be away and go, I need Easter clothes. Uh Christmas clothes. Christmas clothes, I need Christmas Eve Jamies.

SPEAKER_03 34:07

Can I have um two pairs of Ug boots, please? Not one pair, two pairs. Don't get me though ones off that site because I don't think they're real. Can you go to the shop and buy me them? No pressure.

SPEAKER_01 34:21

No. So could just going back slightly, what it I was really like nervous when we first showed the film. I hadn't seen it myself, and it was a big it was a big project to do, um, but I knew there was obviously, you know, gonna be nans and family members in the audience, and I I I hadn't even pre-watched it till we put it on that big screen, so that was a high risk strategy, but it was made and I was like, I can't edit it now. Um, what was it like watching that back?

SPEAKER_03 34:50

Oh, so emotional. I knew exactly which part was my daughter, yeah. And here and then seeing the other girls and their stories all intermingled, I cried. Yeah, I I was with Haley and the two of us had gone together. How was Haley? Oh she she was me and he were going, That's our Mel.

SPEAKER_01 35:19

That's our Mel. It must have been hard to watch.

SPEAKER_03 35:23

It was hard.

SPEAKER_01 35:24

And and I was looking round at everyone's faces, and I could just could see all the faces of everyone's, and and I just felt proud that these girls had got to tell a story in such a way without judgment, without judgment, and I think that goes back to right what you were saying at the beginning of this episode when you were saying about meeting the other families on the visits and feeling not judged. I think that's that's that's that's what we have in time matters as well, isn't it? A place where nobody judges you.

SPEAKER_00 36:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:01

Can I ask you a question? Well can I get an hour skate?

SPEAKER_01 36:05

Well, actually, I was gonna have to come about every month, by the way.

SPEAKER_02 36:08

So, this is a question I genuinely want to ask, yeah. So, in the beginning, when my mum first went away, yeah, you Lorna asked me to do a lot of conferences, and obviously it went through you, and we always used a pseudonym for me, we always used the face name to protect me. Yeah and I know how in the beginning you said like you were you were embarrassed, which is completely natural, it's a normal emotion to feel, and it's completely fine to feel like that. But how do you feel now that I do all this work that I do? Like how how's your feelings and emotions changed towards her?

SPEAKER_03 36:42

Or have they? Back then, my problem was you know you were so young I wanted to protect her. I don't want, you know, at eight years of age people discussing and and paying private family business, yeah, of course. And it was all about her protecting her. I just wanted her to have a normal life, absolutely, you know, surrounded with love, which I got, which she got, but I didn't want people knowing that Olivia. Not Bethany, Olivia.

SPEAKER_02 37:22

Oh, she remembered the name Bethany.

SPEAKER_01 37:27

It was Bethany.

SPEAKER_02 37:28

Why would I forget that? Why did you pick Bethany by the way? I don't know. I wanted well, I was gonna choose Miley from Hannah Montana because I was obsessed with Hannah Montana. I used to say that all the time. I used to feel like Hannah Montana that I'm living a double life.

SPEAKER_03 37:43

Bethany was gonna be Joseph's name. Oh that's what I'm saying. You mentioned I think you said Bethany.

SPEAKER_01 37:49

Pick a pseudonym, I was like, we can't use your real name, we need to protect you. I think it could come from you. And then you were just like, I think I want to be Bethany.

SPEAKER_02 37:56

Bethany. Yeah. Remember that? Remember the radio station that you listened to for the first time? Oh, I sobbed and first we listened to the nanny gingers on the DVD thing, didn't we?

SPEAKER_03 38:06

My heart was pounding out my chest, honestly.

SPEAKER_01 38:09

Because she was so listening.

SPEAKER_03 38:11

That tiny, tiny voice coming out of that radio, it was mind-blowing.

SPEAKER_02 38:17

No. So you've so now, what what do you feel about everything I do now?

SPEAKER_03 38:22

What does it I'm so proud of everything you do now? Really?

SPEAKER_02 38:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 38:27

I'm so proud of you know, this is kind of like a healing process for her as well. And the fact that she's got such care for other others who are going through the same thing.

SPEAKER_00 38:42

Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 38:42

You know, it makes me so proud of her. And as I've said before, go and get me another person of her age who's done what she's done. I couldn't be so proud. I I don't care who knows.

SPEAKER_01 38:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 38:55

You know, if this is gonna help another person.

SPEAKER_01 38:59

And I I I honestly believe, and and and in fact, I don't just believe it, I know it because we have so much feedback to from people that are like, I I identify with that, and I I feel seen, yeah, and I feel not judged because you know.

SPEAKER_03 39:16

And as a as a grandparent or a mum or or a dad or a family member who's got someone about to go into prison and they're absolutely terrified of how they're gonna survive if they can get any comfort from listening to podcasts and and information about what it could potentially be like. Yeah, it's not great all the time, you're gonna have good days, you're gonna have bad days. How are you gonna get through it? Yeah, you know, you will get through it. Yeah, it might be hard, but you will.

SPEAKER_01 40:00

It's such an isolating experience because of the shame and the stigma. So by exactly, you know, people obviously want to protect yourselves and put yourselves in a bit in the beginning and shut everything away. And and and that's rightfully so. Rightfully so.

SPEAKER_03 40:15

I still protect her now, you know, from stuff.

SPEAKER_01 40:18

You all know what she knows and knows she does.

SPEAKER_02 40:20

We all do. I think just a quick one on that though, I think because uh it's literally ingrained into people's brains that the the and I think for you it's hard as well that that because of how bad my mental health was when I was younger, I think you have that fear of me becoming that low again. And I think that's a big, big thing for you because it was an awful time for you. And me, Nan didn't really know anything that was going on in in my head until she sat in my counselling sessions with me and she realised how deeply I felt about everything and what was actually going on in my brain. That I feel like that's a fear for for you now, in case I ever do get that low again.

SPEAKER_03 41:07

See, um my fear now is here going off to Australia, and we need to go on. You know, and uh and it's like hitting home, and I'm like that. Oh, it's really happening because I'm thinking it would be.

SPEAKER_02 41:21

I put my invitation out for me, leave and party yesterday.

SPEAKER_01 41:25

My daughter opened that invitation and went, yeah, and I thought something really bad had happened. She went, she's actually gonna go because my daughter is so attached to Liv. My daughter loves my Matilda, loves Liv. She does like a sister. Love you. And she's like, What are we gonna do when Liv isn't here? And I was like, We'll have to just go and visit her in Australia, won't we? I think we'll all have to go over en masse.

SPEAKER_02 41:50

I think I'm a I'm a wonderlust, and you've always said I'm a wonderlust, and I think it's because I'm a Sagittarius, I don't sit still. If I get an opportunity to go to another country, I'll leave. But uh I'm also on the flip side of my homebody. I am a home body, I find my comfort in my family, like in in the house, in like in my nans, me nanny gingers, my aunties, me I've got no siblings, so my cousins, my little cousins in my world, every single one of them. Um they mean the world to me, and I think that's what I'm gonna struggle with the most. Like I'm gonna miss like a milestone of the twins. I'm gonna come back and the twins are gonna look different. The milestones with um Haley's little girl or Sophia, she's gonna be fully in in secondary school. Lucas, the the boys, the boys are gonna be completely different. Jenny's boys. I just think everything's gonna change so much that I'm gonna I'm it's only gonna be a year, you know. I know.

SPEAKER_01 42:45

Unless that you Yeah, and also it's 2027, like videos, social media.

SPEAKER_02 42:50

Yeah. I know, but I just think I'm gonna missetime. Are you messing with that different time zones? So don't be FaceTiming me at three o'clock in the morning when I'm asleep. I've got work the next day. You have to wait for me to FaceTime you. No, but I am excited and I think I've got all the support I've got behind me anyway. Um and I know if I want to come home, I can come home whenever I want.

SPEAKER_01 43:09

So do you know what I thought I went to live in Australia for a year when I was 27 and I was nervous understandably, but I always remember people saying to me, You're only a day away, it's only 24 hours. If you always you always have enough money for your return flight, always, and if ever you need to get home, that the money is always there for your return flight, and you're one day away from home. That's all you remember.

SPEAKER_03 43:33

I've had to pay £500 to get here home from Turkey. £500 flight home, emergency last minute thing. I'm not gonna go into it because it was a long time ago. Um, but please, I can't be thousands of pounds to get you a minute.

SPEAKER_02 43:53

Yeah, make sure I'll have my own money to get myself home if I want to come home. I literally label it in my bank account as emergency money to come home. But no, I I think it's something that I really like is gonna change my life forever. Um, but don't worry, I won't come back pregnant or anything, so don't stress or married. Well, it is what it is. I mean, yeah, just 27 years old. By the way, I'm coming home, but I'm bringing your your grandchild with me.

SPEAKER_01 44:21

I mean, obviously, we're gonna have to keep running this podcast because there's there's still like stuff.

SPEAKER_03 44:27

I know.

SPEAKER_02 44:29

There's still loads of stuff that we need to unpack with you, Nan, and you'll be calling it.

SPEAKER_03 44:32

I mean, we're still we still get we're still going through it now with Melanie. Yeah. I'm not gonna lie. Yeah, I'm not gonna sugarcoat it. It's hard.

SPEAKER_01 44:39

And I think the people listening will right now appreciate the honesty.

SPEAKER_02 44:43

We will be honest, it we have the last last month was she's doing so well. She's doing yeah. And now this month we've taken ten steps back, but when you take ten steps back, it's always possible to take another three steps forward. So don't ever let it don't ever let it differ yet or decipher your idea on anything.

SPEAKER_03 45:03

People who know us know what we're going through because she she has a lot of people who uh support her within the community, you know. They all go, oh come on, you can do it, you know, and and are always like willing her to sort herself out.

SPEAKER_01 45:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 45:23

She's gotta want to do it herself. Yeah, you've gotta want it, and I think and I pray every day that you know today's the day. It'll change it'll change today. It's gonna be a good time now, or we're on the and then we go back, yeah, and then I'm back to that place where I'm terrified.

SPEAKER_02 45:46

But we've got each other, and we've all got each other, and that's what's important is having the people you love around you the most.

SPEAKER_03 45:52

And I think Well she she's not in prison or not, and she hasn't gone back to prison.

SPEAKER_01 45:58

No, she's just she's just it's she's struggling, she's struggling, she's struggling right now, and we're sending out all of our you know, love and support, and and I think the most positive thing is that she knows that you're always gonna be there, yeah loving and supporting.

SPEAKER_02 46:13

Just wherever you're all do me a favour and come back home. Please come home right now. I'll be nice to come so nice.

SPEAKER_03 46:23

No, and she goes, mmm, doesn't she?

SPEAKER_01 46:27

Melanie, get home to your mum right now, honestly. Um will you come back? I feel like we have to keep coming back. Can you be a regular, please? And then can you and me can support each other when Liv's in the street? Kick me off so just have a podcast. We're closing this podcast, but can we have a podcast when we talk about Liv's messiness? No, why would you bring that up? That's getting caught up.

SPEAKER_03 46:51

She's very messy.

SPEAKER_02 46:52

I'm ADHD riddled. So my brain they say I'm messy, yeah, but go in my room and genuinely ask me where anything is, and I'll tell you.

SPEAKER_01 46:59

Me and Leila have been in when Liv lived with me and like gone in when Liv's been in work and then reorganised the whole room because Layla's brilliant at stuff like that. Yeah, I'm gonna be able to do it. Organise things into like sections. And then 24 hours.

SPEAKER_03 47:12

It is my excuse. Look at my mum. My mum's the same as me. You come in from work and I go, I've got anxiety. What do I get anxiety about? My wardrobe. And what else? The kitchen.

SPEAKER_02 47:23

That's Joe. That's not me. Because that's my grandad Joe, and I am blaming you, Joe. It is my granddad Joe because when you come back from work, I've just finished a two-day stretch as well.

SPEAKER_01 47:34

No, I'll carry. I'm not coming. Hold the front door. Slow down. No, I'm not having this, right?

SPEAKER_02 47:44

I'm getting my eyelashes everywhere. Oh, yeah, the eyelashes are the thing. But honestly, right, why should I have to go? He does not work at the minute. So why do I have to come home and do his dishes?

SPEAKER_01 47:56

Because it's it's family to home.

SPEAKER_02 47:59

He's a well-working man. He's gonna sit there and call you and do your own dishes. What do you think this is the 1950s?

SPEAKER_01 48:05

I'm not cleaning up after you. So would you like to finish with what you're grateful for?

SPEAKER_02 48:10

I'm grateful for the editing that's gonna happen on this podcast. No, no, and do not edit anything else.

SPEAKER_01 48:16

Go on there, what you're grateful for, what you're grateful for.

SPEAKER_02 48:18

I'm grateful for um come back to me last. I'm still touched on the She's still touched on the um the messiness. So come back to you.

SPEAKER_01 48:35

Don't use it as an excuse. Oh well. That's getting rinsed for it. It can't be useless. We can have understanding.

SPEAKER_02 48:42

I feel discriminated against for having ADHD.

SPEAKER_01 48:44

I feel that all the ADHD followers.

SPEAKER_02 48:48

I'm telling you now what I'm putting, I swear to God, I'm putting a claim in on. I will do the dishes, I do do the dishes. I do my dishes. Carol. I do my own washing, I do the dishes, it's my wardrobe and my bedroom. That's an issue. Yeah, that's the main issue. Everything else is fine. Do you know what I'm grateful for this week?

SPEAKER_03 49:08

I'm grateful for my mum. Oh we're the same. Oh, talk about why we're grateful for Jesus. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 49:18

I love you. I'm gonna get so upset. I love me, Nanny Jin. I love Nanny Jin. She's fab, isn't she? She is a strong matriarch. Please, please, please, we have to get Nanny Jin John. She's a face, aren't there? She's so amazing. Why are you grateful for her though, specifically?

SPEAKER_03 49:37

Because do you know what? She she gets forgetful at twice. And then she the last couple of days, you know, she she kind of remembers little things. And she keeps phoning me. FaceTime and me.

SPEAKER_02 49:54

FaceTime and all the way.

SPEAKER_03 49:55

Um she's forgotten me a couple of times, but quite regularly recently. She's been phoning me loads. She's the wrong guy. Yeah. Guys.

SPEAKER_02 50:08

We've got Nanny Ginge on the podcast. Oh, do you know the podcast, the Voices Unlocked podcast that I do?

unknown 50:19

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 50:20

Yeah, well, we we you're on as a guest. Do you want to say that? I'll get the guests to see you. Oh, you're the autozyer.

SPEAKER_03 50:28

Oh, I'm here, yeah. Are you okay?

SPEAKER_02 50:33

You would be. Right, Nan. I want you to say in front of everybody. So this is this is this is outknown knowledge. Who's your favourite?

SPEAKER_00 50:45

Oh, you know, I don't have faith.

SPEAKER_02 50:47

No, come on, you can be honest.

SPEAKER_00 50:50

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 50:53

We were just talking about how grateful we are for you and how amazing you are. Oh, that's nice. Well, are you grateful for me? Be nice, Nan. You're on the telly. Me love and affection. Me love and affection.

SPEAKER_00 51:17

You give me love.

SPEAKER_02 51:20

Yes, ginger. Right, I'm gonna let you go. I just wanted you to say say hi to everyone. Hi, Lily James. Saying hello. Hi.

SPEAKER_01 51:37

Hi, Alana. Oh, you don't want to talk to me now, do you?

SPEAKER_02 51:40

I do, I love you.

SPEAKER_01 51:43

You've got your back.

SPEAKER_02 51:45

Oh, here we go. We do, we do. Bring you on. Right, ginge. I'm gonna have to let you go because we're wrapping this episode up. But we'll get you on for one somehow. Okay. Okay. Alright. I love you. Love you. Hey, guess what?

SPEAKER_01 52:04

I'm a gorgeous new angle.

SPEAKER_02 52:07

When we put the phone down, me and me and Ango to each other, who's gorgeous and hangs up. So the first person that hangs up's face is the gorgeous one. She's brilliant. She's so funny.

SPEAKER_01 52:16

She's just the rock of the family, isn't she? She's so funny. She's so funny. I didn't know.

SPEAKER_02 52:23

Can you see how jealous she was then? She's got no filter. No. She's brilliant. Yeah. We have to be careful. That's why I'm scared to get her on the podcast because bloody LD has.

SPEAKER_01 52:30

I'm going to finish my gratitude with Nanny Ginge.

SPEAKER_02 52:33

I think I'm going to choose.

SPEAKER_01 52:34

No, I'll like I'm because I remember the when I used to come in and do one-to-ones with you. It was in Ginger's house on the big table, and Chris used to sit in the corner and just on playing patience on his computer, uh playing solitaire. And I just just how she made me feel, she was always like, Hiya Lorna, how welcoming she was, and just how she made me feel, you know, valued, um, and yeah, just just just so gorgeous and welcoming.

SPEAKER_02 53:05

She absolutely loves you. She adores you.

SPEAKER_01 53:08

So my my gratitude for for today is Nanny Ginge. Just I looked forward to it, and you know what? I am the worst person at remembering postcodes, aren't I? But I always, always remember Ginger's postcodes. It's in my brain. Yeah, yeah. Driving down that road and going, I'm gonna see Liv and I'm gonna see Jill. I'm gonna see Chris.

SPEAKER_02 53:31

He called me mum. Did he? John. John, yeah. I mean Anne used to call him Babe Brain. No, Mary. Mary killed the cats. Mary killed the cats. And my granddad, my granddad Chris would call her Babe Brain.

SPEAKER_03 53:43

Yeah. Babe Brain and Answer the phone as him. Hello, nerve centre. Yeah. Yeah. What? Anyone?

SPEAKER_02 53:50

He'd answer the phone. Never answered the channel. And he used to go, he used to go, I see, said the blind man. He was out of no way. And then he'd go, Who flung dung? Who flung dunk at Charlie out? Hit him on the head with the piano. He didn't know what to do, so jumped in the river and banged his toe at the bottom. He'd do this in the middle of a doctor's. He'd do this in the middle of the beton shop. He'd just come out with the randomest things in the world, wouldn't he? His brain worked crazy like all the time. But yeah, I'm grateful for me nanny ginge. I'm grateful for me nanny ginge. But bearing in mind, you know, Ellie doesn't know that me nanny ginge was called Kathy. She thought me nan's birth name was still.

SPEAKER_01 54:29

I didn't know initially. I remember ringing the school to go to an appointment for you, and they were like, Well, I said, I'm just ringing on behalf of um uh I just I'm really sorry, I only know it was ginge.

SPEAKER_02 54:41

And I was thinking, I don't ginge call us. And then and then they knew off the bat that they were talking about nanny ging, they were talking about me, but do you know where she got that name from? Me mum. The ginge, yeah. Oh my mum had nicknames for all the redheads in the family. Oh, Joseph was Reggie. Reggie. Reggie, and me nanny ginge is nanny ginge, and it stuck. Everyone calls her ginge now. Yeah, ginger the ninja. She's got tattoo, hasn't she? Yeah, nanny ginge. I've got one here. Love always nanny ginge. But yeah, I'm grateful for ginge. Um just because I love you, all the world, and I'm your favourite, so you've got to be my gratitude, as I say. But as always, we need you back on because we scratch the surface again, and I just love having you on. I love having you there, it makes me very happy. Um, and you know I love you more than anyone. I love you every day, every day. Love you everyone, love you everyone, thank you for listening. Bye.