Michigan Tribe Podcast

Knowing Your Numbers, Staying Connected, and the Truth About Why Businesses Fail with Shawn Preissle.

• Michigan Tribe • Season 1 • Episode 4

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0:00 | 41:24

What separates the businesses that make it from the ones that don't? In this episode, Alex and Amanda sit down with Shawn Preissle -- a retired business consultant with over a decade of experience and roughly 2,500 entrepreneurs under her belt -- to get real about what it actually takes to survive (and thrive) in business ownership. 

Shawn breaks down the common thread she saw in successful entrepreneurs: they came in prepared, knew their numbers, and -- most importantly -- they stayed connected to support even after launch. She shares why so many business owners wait too long to ask for help, what your financials are actually trying to tell you, and how to build a simple "scorecard" that tracks the health of your business in a way that actually makes sense to you. 

Whether you're a spreadsheet lover or someone who breaks out in a cold sweat at the sight of a balance sheet, this episode is packed with practical wisdom that meets you where you are. Plus, the ladies get candid about leaning on your people, knowing your gaps, and why the Jackson County business ecosystem means you truly don't have to go it alone. 

In this episode:

  • Why preparation (not passion) is the #1 predictor of success
  • The financial benchmarks every business owner should know 
  • How to build a business scorecard that works for you
  • Why staying connected to your consultant after launch is everything 
  • The real cost of waiting too long to ask for help
SPEAKER_01

Welcome to the My Tribe podcast. Today we have Sean Priestley, previously from the Michigan SBDC, and we dive a little bit into her helping 2,500 entrepreneurs and what she learned throughout that process. Let's dive in.

SPEAKER_03

Three, two, one. Talk to me.

SPEAKER_01

Welcome to the Michigan Tribe Podcast. We are hanging out with a very fancy Alex Maston. You got a bow in your hair. And you found your professor glasses. Welcome after two weeks to the show, Dr. Alexandra. Thank you, Maston. It's great to be here. You're wearing a belt. I am. Welcome to the My Tribe Podcast. We are here with the very fancy Alex Maston and probably our favorite business human that we still talk about. And the fact that you're retired is depressing me every day. Sean Beasley. No longer from the Michigan SBDC.

SPEAKER_03

Thanks for having me. I'm glad to be here.

SPEAKER_01

It's always fun to see you too. Oh, we love you. You are retired now. Guide guide us towards what I learned before we started recording, which is that you might be able to tell us about countries where you can be euthanized if things go downhill.

SPEAKER_03

I don't know. I do think I need to do a little more research on that, but that that is an option if that's she's a traveler.

SPEAKER_01

She's a traveler. That is what her retirement interested.

SPEAKER_02

And what you're talking about, but me as well.

SPEAKER_01

But um, you know, pre-travel time and learning about random things like euthanasia for humans, we knew you because you worked at the Michigan SBDC. And prior to that, you were an entrepreneur and a business owner. And the start of your story that I knew is that you owned a business that was a franchise. Yes. That franchise imploded. Yes. Upon it. You then transitioned from a franchise to an independent business. I don't recommend it, but yes. Okay. And then did COVID hit? And that's why you started doing the meals to go. Because there was some story, there was some part of your story where you were like doing to-go meals or something like that. Restaurant catering.

SPEAKER_03

It wasn't COVID-related. Okay. It was more of just uh an a company that started, a franchise that started with this great dream of serving family-sized dinners to people. They come in and they make it themselves. And now when I even bring it up, people I'll say, Do you remember that concept? And they're like, No, because it was just something that kind of popped up. All of these stores opened up where all the ingredients were there, all the recipes were there, you prepared it yourself, you took the dinners home, but you could make a dozen dinners in two hours and be done. Which is really cool, but it's like one more thing you have to plan into your life. And go to, and physically like go do it somewhere else. You know, and and that's hard. I mean, yeah, you have a child, you know how hard it is to get away for any period of time.

SPEAKER_01

And even cook the HelloFresh at my house. Like, yeah, I get it.

SPEAKER_03

I have another option for you for that. Yes. Okay, go. But yes. So that that concept just didn't work. And so the whole franchise, that was what they developed the whole brand around. They didn't know what to do. They couldn't, they couldn't pivot 15 locations. So they ended up shutting down and and just saying, you're all you're all independent now. So we tried to do a little bit of a cooperative, and I ran the cooperative where we shared a website, we still were sharing recipes. Um, I was trying to manage that, and then like these stores were closing down one after another. And it like it wasn't an option for me. You know, it was I had a young family, just giving up wasn't an option. So we transitioned and people, we were making the food for people. So you could order 12 dinners and pick them up, and you were in and out in five minutes. We did it all online.

SPEAKER_00

Wow.

SPEAKER_03

But we also had to, you know, open we had a hot lunch program for private schools because it helped pay the rent. And um, we did catering and we had a cooking school in the front of our store. So that whole section where people were making them themselves, the cooking school moved in. Um so we had to do all of that to to be profitable, and it was a lot.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and I so I wanna I have so many questions about that, but I literally in your bio allowed you to introduce yourself. Hello. But I I wanted to, you know, share with our listeners, you transitioned from that directly into Michigan SBDC, I believe, right? Pretty much okay.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I I sold that business and was going to take a year off, and I painted every wall in my house. There was no more walls to paint. So I'm like, I gotta do something. And so I I applied for SBDC, and one of the people that interviewed me actually was the um coach, the uh consultant for the woman that ran the cooking school. And he recognized me, and I had no it took me three months of looking at his face to go, oh my gosh, I do recognize you. And he's like, Yeah, it only took you three months to figure that out in the world. Wow. Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_01

And now can you explain to listeners what you did at the Michigan SBDC and the general concept? Because some people might might not even know what that organization is or does. So just like, what was your role in it? And then what was kind of the wider umbrella?

SPEAKER_03

Okay, so it's Michigan Small Business Development Center. So we are um a group of consultants. You are no longer. We are not. We are. It's so fresh, y'all. It's so fresh.

SPEAKER_02

It is very fresh.

SPEAKER_03

They are a group of consultants all over the state of Michigan. They're actually all over the country. Every state has an SBDC, but the Michigan SBDC, we have offices all over the state. They it's hard. It's hard to transition. It's really hard, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Um, well, you were there for like a decade, no?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, uh, nine years. No, ten years, yeah. Yeah, so um, we provide consulting to startups. I can't even stop saying we're fine. I won't call you about any more startups, um, anywhere from like I have a concept, I want to see if I can vet this out, if it'll work, to existing businesses that they maybe have hit a roadblock or they're at that, you know, $300,000 mark or $800,000 mark. Those are the kind of two areas where we people see people struggle. They need to get over that hump so we can help them with that. But we help they help with everything in between too marketing help, financial, um, like accounting help, helping you put a loan package together. I um anything related to business. Transition planning, getting out of business if you've um you know worked it for the long haul. Like me, I I had my business for nine years. We were at this pivot point again, and I thought, well, I can pivot again or I can see if I can sell it. And I ended up selling it. So we so they also help with that too, is really making sure that companies are ready to sell. You can't decide today, I'm gonna sell my business and expect an offer tomorrow. And to expect the price that you want, it does take time.

SPEAKER_01

So now I'm curious, because you're uh we've mentioned a couple times, but you are recently retired. Congratulations, super jealous. I wish I had just returned from Hawaii as well. But um, but I, you know, I have questions about both of those stages of your life. And there was even one before it. I think you were in theater prior to that, something to that effect. Or was it yes? You were a nonprofit theater. And um, so what I'm curious about is after 10 years of working at the SBDC, reflecting back on yourself as a business owner and entrepreneur, what advice would you have given yourself?

SPEAKER_03

There was so much I didn't know. Yeah. It it, you know, all of these pivots that I made. I bought out a partner, um, I went from a franchise to an independent, I sold the company, I changed my concept multiple times. Um, it was a struggle. And there were so many different ways I could have gone about it. And I I think the biggest thing that I didn't know then was how to really market my business. I didn't. And and even now, I wouldn't consider myself great at marketing, but I know the importance of having a good marketing strategy in a company. So many, so many businesses don't even think about that. So I think for me, that was the biggest uh piece. So prior to owning my own business, my I worked for my father's company who um and I I did all the financial pieces of it. You know, I did all the bookkeeping, the accounting, the taxes. So I had a good grasp on that. That's such an important piece that probably saved me from closing my doors too, like all the other franchises. Absolutely. Is that I managed every single penny. I probably drove people crazy. Like, there's two ounces of ketchup in that bottle, you can throw that away. Pour it out. Yeah. So, I mean, I think that's what sort of helped me.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Oh my gosh, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01

And so, you know, that lesson, the marketing lesson, kind of ties into what I'm curious about from the SBDC perspective, or just, you know, the number of businesses. Why Alex and I loved you so much in that role and continue to love you now, and you will forever live your legacy will live on too much. We will forever talk about you. Oh man. And we will forever text you and be like, but you could help this one person. We love you so much. Yes. But um, you know, 10 years of helping a variety of industries and different business owners and and different businesses at different stages, some startups and some uh, you know, 10, 20, 100 years of legacy down the line. What are some of the like really big uh kind of pitfalls that you noticed repeatedly in businesses and entrepreneurs that sought help through the SBDC?

SPEAKER_03

This is such you already know my answer. Like you're both smiling because you know my answer is that so many businesses do not know how to manage their money at all. At all. And and I I feel like, you know, so many people think that they're alone in that struggle of not really understanding their numbers. But uh 75% of the businesses that I worked with did not know what the numbers meant. So it was either they had an accounting system, but they weren't putting in the entries correctly. Um, they were putting the entries incorrectly, but they didn't know what the reports meant. Some had no accounting system at all. Yeah, and they were trying to manage it.

SPEAKER_01

Especially entrepreneurs, small business owners, solopreneurs, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Because they're wearing so many hats. Like people go into business thinking, like, I can make bread. I'm gonna make bread. I've been making bread forever. So now I'm gonna start this company making bread. You're not making bread when you start it.

SPEAKER_01

I'll just charge $4 a loaf. Like, throw a number out there and get just get started.

SPEAKER_03

But you're not even making the bread. You have to hire someone to make the bread. So you're a manager. And if you have never managed anything, how how can you you heard my complaints upon arrival at this podcast recording?

SPEAKER_01

That's right.

SPEAKER_03

This is our whole thing. Managing people is a whole scale. Yeah, and and I and that was probably the biggest struggle for me is trying to meet people where they are in their financial struggle and teach them. And so oftentimes when people get really far down the road and their books are just a disaster, and I've seen it time and time again, it's so hard to unravel that. So I think my one piece of well, they've got lots of pieces of advice, but the biggest piece of advice is understand uh what you don't know about finances and figure out how to fix that problem, whether you learn it yourself or you make sure that you have the funds to pay someone to do it. Because if you can't put together a good cash flow balance sheet income statement, you're you're never gonna survive. I have never known a solid company to not know what's going on with their finances. Right.

SPEAKER_01

So from that angle, you know, I went from being a solopreneur who was absolutely terrible with money, and I can relate to that level of being a startup, and Alex knows this. I would call her and be like, Do you want to be my business partner? Because I'm like the worst and I don't know what I'm doing. You know, money was coming in much slower than it was going out. I mean, I just money was never my strong suit. And now managing an organization, right, that's a million dollars in in revenue, and we have, you know, almost $5 million in assets. Um, you know, we're just we're in such a we're in a different state than I was when I started. And and as a non-money like person, I don't think even now I know enough about money because it's constantly evolving. Every stage of your career, every stage of your business, like like understanding the differences between cash flow and revenue versus expenses, right? It's like when you're you're like it might look like a really good revenue month, but your cash flow is really struggling. Like there are so many, like, where do people even start understanding your money? Let's just say in both of those different stages, a startup who's still maybe intermingling personal and business, right? And then a large-scale company that maybe this is the first time an owner's really even had the opportunity to organize, right? Where do you step out of the business to actually run the business? Yeah, like where do people even start managing money? Because there's so many numbers.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. Um, that's a really good question. And again, it's what is your background? What do you know about finances? Like if you've never managed your own personality. I know to call my sister. There you go. But you have someone though. You have someone you can call. Yeah. But if you've never had to do it, you are on the bottom rung of the ladder. So I mean, you can take a class, you can, I mean, reach out to the SBDC. Right. We have a very basic tool to help manage money where, you know, I I built this spreadsheet where here's your income, here's your cost of goods, and here's your expenses, and it'll it'll provide you information. You know, it'll it'll add all of those up and tell you what your profit is at the end of the month. And it's very basic. You don't have to think about debits and credits or um, you know, uh that both one transaction is always gonna have a another transaction, like in in QuickBooks. If cash comes in, what's the other side of that? You know, people are like, what? It's cash, it comes in, right? So um if you've never managed your books, your personal finances, you have no background, you have to hire someone to at least get you set up and explain it to you. If you have to take a course at, you know, JCC to learn about personal finances or QuickBooks or whatever, don't do it. And uh oftentimes people think like, I'm gonna start a business, I'm gonna get my LLC and I'm gonna start.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

And it it it if you're gonna get in business in 15 days, if and you haven't thought any more than I'm gonna form my LLC and I'm gonna start a business, you're already behind the eight ball. You've already set yourself up for failure because you haven't looked at am I is my product or service fulfilling a need? Do people need this? And does it fit with my lifestyle? Like you know, I've worked with people, uh, you know, a guy started his own business, his wife was very ill and he felt like I need to make more money to help pay the bills. Well, that's the worst time to start a business.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, right? At least to start it right and actually have it be successful. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

I mean, if you uh if you're not spending a year, six months, a year setting up your business and even longer, then you almost are setting yourself up for failure.

SPEAKER_02

That is like the number one thing that I see is then you know I refer a lot of I've referred a lot of people to you. So it's like they don't think that the customer discovery part is important. And I and I and it's like it's a struggle to try to get you know people to understand that why would you set up an LLC if you don't even know people want what you're offering? Yeah, and then you're gonna have to go and end up dissolving the LLC. So why not put the work up up front to see if this is gonna work and it is gonna be a business that you can make money at? And it's just that is just something that everybody struggles with. Yeah, everybody struggles with that.

SPEAKER_03

I used to teach how to start your own business classes here at the library when I first started. So, you know, here I am sort of fresh off my own business. I think I know a lot. I found out that I didn't know a lot. I was very fortunate to have great people that I worked with that if I had a question, I I used to drive them crazy because I'd get off the phone with a client and I'd hang up and I'm like, this is like the whole conversation. This is what I told him. And was I right or was I wrong? And they're like telling me this is what you did right. This, but that's how I learned, right? And so I used to teach these classes, and we have a how to start your own uh business at SBDC, uh, a manual. Okay. And I used to teach to that. And the very first thing was you know, where does this fit in with your lifestyle? Are you at a point in your life that you could start your business? And I would think, well, why would someone be here if they weren't at that right point so many of us? So many of us. And then over the years I realized like so many people are using uh a new business as a fix to something much more serious. Like, and I was telling Alex before you got here, is that you know I I I sort of put people into two categories later. And I'm like after seeing a pattern, it's like people who have a passion and the drive to start a business and are willing to put in the time and effort to get to that goal, versus these other groups that they need to pay the bills. Yes, right. And they have to figure out a way to pay the bills. So they come to you, they're like, I want to start a daycare. Well, that doesn't work out.

SPEAKER_01

Girl, I want to tell you that ain't the business to start if you gotta build a pay.

SPEAKER_02

That's what it doesn't work, but then that's the point that you know they don't they're not thinking that thing.

SPEAKER_03

No, it's like, okay, that I I I know I got a friend who had a food truck and she made a lot of money, so I'm gonna do the same thing. All right, well, you've you made banana bread with your grandma. This person worked in a restaurant for 10 years, like it's not the same, right? Right.

SPEAKER_01

So are you saying so you know, I'm gonna admit something to you, Sean. No, my god, it's gonna be so surprising related. What's supposed to happen and we need to do it? DBD. I don't know. But uh Alex is so the Sean Priestley to the this equation. I am I am in your first category. I'm the one who was like, I, or your second category, excuse me. You're I need to pay my bills, and that's why I started. But the voice in my head as that category of person is like, yeah, but that's where my drive comes from. I don't have, I'm not the disciplined person. She's the disciplined one out of us. I'm not the like that is what gives me the drive to figure it out is that goal. So, you know, were there, can you be successful no matter which category you come from? Well, what is your business? Girl, I don't have one anymore.

SPEAKER_02

I'm just saying, like your business or the business was wealth university, and basically we were coaching uh women in their 20s and 30s to build a business. So we're basically what Michigan Tribe does, but for a profit. Okay, but you you knew that world.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. It wasn't like you were gonna make banana bread and it only made it with your grandma, right?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, you can't you were like I'm gonna make jewelry or something, you know. You were like you actually had you were training yourself by going to school and going to these conferences and then taking that and and selling.

SPEAKER_03

Okay. And I don't think you were fooled by the the time and effort it was going to take. I for sure was, but like I'm suiting it.

SPEAKER_01

I definitely thought it wasn't gonna be that. But my lifestyle was suited to it. I was young 20s, I had all the time in the world. I thought it was gonna take a lot less time, but the fact that it didn't was fine. You know, like there were a lot of things to it. So I do hear you, but just as you talk about this structure and the requiring it to take, you know, six to 12 months or you're behind, like I fit in that category. But even more than that, I I'm when I hear entrepreneur stories, I can identify people in both of those that are still rocking and rolling and doing things.

SPEAKER_03

Right. Okay. So I guess maybe I generalize too much. No, it's a good thing. Maybe maybe there's a third bucket. So, so um, if you're starting a business where you have like the support behind you, yeah. So maybe you have parents that can support you, or you're living at home, or um, you don't have like this this whole entire family and everything that you have to support. And then you also need a loan for a hundred thousand dollars to make it work. That's the that's the the first bucket where I just need to make money, but I need all of these things to make this happen for me. Yeah. That's the kind of failure I'm talking about. But yeah, if you're like, I have a pickup truck and I'm gonna, you know, help people move their marketplace orders from door to door for 50 bucks, that could work. You know, you could start to earn a little bit of money, as long as that's not the business that has to support your family of four when you're the only person working and you have zero savings. Right.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, it comes back to the cult question that we learned and and we've shared a bit of the cult story here on the podcast, which is what can you do with what you do have? And we ask it primarily at Michigan Tribe too like what can I do with what I do have from what with what I do have from right where I am? Cause that's a that is an acceptable amount of growth to expect yourself to have. But to say by the end of next, you know, next week, I am going to go from making no income ever in this business to paying my mortgage and and buying groceries and buying a new car because I need it and making sure that I make those past due payments on debt that I'm way behind on. So, like, you know, I think framing it from the aspect of like where can I reasonably be as a business owner in the stage that I am 30 days from now or a year from now or wherever it is, and what do I need to learn to get there? Yeah. Um, rather than expecting gold at the end of the rainbow tomorrow. Right.

SPEAKER_03

And you and you're setting you have to set expectations that make sense. You know, back to customer discovery. Um, I worked with a coffee shop in the very beginning, and they handed me a business plan. They put a lot of thought into it.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

But the part that messed them up is their projections. They had projected the same amount of cups of coffee that they sell on a like a Starbucks on in New York City in a on in Somerset, Michigan. And it's like that's not even possible.

SPEAKER_01

Well, I see that in pitch decks so often people look at what the entire industry is making worldwide or nationwide. I'm like, girl, you win Jackson. Like you you gotta do, yeah, you gotta actually know your population. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

And that's the so AI, you know, is is such an amazing tool. Yeah. Take that with a grain of salt. Yep. It lies to you too. Oh, yeah, all the time.

SPEAKER_01

I just I was in a very heated argument with AI yesterday. I told Alex this. Yes. It's like, don't trust him. Don't do it.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, she's that there's that.

SPEAKER_01

It's like I've been screaming at Chat GPT all morning. Yeah. I'm really upset with it.

SPEAKER_03

But one thing it can do is if you want to open a coffee shop in Somerset, you can say, I want to open up a coffee shop in Somerset. Here's the location I want. How many cups of coffee do you think I can sell in a day? And it will actually tell you this is a population of Somerset. This is the amount of expenditures people spend on coffee. Here, you're the amount of area. Yeah. Yeah. And then it can give you do a multiplier and pops out this number, and you're like, wow. And and you know, I've yeah, used different platforms and I do my own research, and it's like, that's pretty accurate. Right. So, you know, there's some data that you can take from that. Absolutely. One other question that that um my boss taught me to ask at the very beginning because I always thought like people wanted to be wildly successful. Yeah. But what does success look like to you?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

So if your if success looks like to you, I want to earn a total of ten thousand dollars so I can have a really great vacation with my family every December, that's fine. Maybe your knit scarves can earn you that kind of money. Yeah. But if you think that your knit scarves are gonna put your kids, your four kids through college, that's different. Yeah. Right. So that's a great question. I should ask that.

SPEAKER_01

I was gonna say that's a really actually good question for grant applicants too, because just who are we to judge what business success looks like? And yeah, that's a really good question. So, you know, you said something in your previous answer, Sean, that I want to come back to because it's something I struggle with. It's something you and I have talked about that I don't know if I would put struggle to it for you because I don't want to speak for you, but you were giving advice and guidance to business owners at different ages, different stages of business, at different, you know, uh from different generations, from different areas of Michigan, from, you know, just industries you'd never worked in, ideas you'd never heard before. How did you know that the advice that you were giving was good advice? Because business, maybe it's gonna come back to haunt me if I get a bunch of letters, like a hard question. If someone is giving me an idea, you know, for Michigan Tribe, we we serve different entrepreneurs who come to us with different ideas or the same idea we've heard nine gazillion times, and we know there's so many photographers, there's so many caterers, there's so many people, and they're coming to us with the same idea. Like, who are we to say it can't be successful? But who am I to say I know more than they do about where they're never do?

SPEAKER_03

I have I should I don't not ever. Very rarely have I said to someone, that's not gonna work. There's no way you're gonna make that happen. I let people make that decision for themselves. Okay. So I don't, I mean, I would only think my advice is sound by the research that I help them put into what they're going to do. Okay. So I can say, like, we always have to know what it's gonna cost to start a business. We also have to know what our expenses are going to be. I don't have to guess at that or advise on that. It's just what it is, right? So then we can say, well, how many customers do you think you can you will have and and but will that cover those expenses that you have and that loan payment that you have and that payroll that you have?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

And if it won't, uh then you have to rethink your idea. Yeah. But I'm I'm gonna help you get it on paper so that you can make that decision by yourself. People do not like data. No, and I like what data tells them. And I always used to do a lot of that part of the work because I know people hate that, and I don't hate that. I'm that weird person who does who loves the number portion of it. So you have to find what it costs to build out the space, you have to find out what the equipment's gonna cost. Um, you have to know how many employees you're gonna hire. Yeah, but I can plug all of that into a spreadsheet and have it spit out some answers, and I can explain to you what it means.

unknown

Right.

SPEAKER_03

And that can go a long way for people. Yeah, right. And and you know, oftentimes I'll get, oh, right, yeah, that's not gonna work. Yeah, right. Or um, how much like can't we just bump those? This is I get this, I get this quite a few times. It's like, can't we just bump up those sales numbers with cash flows?

SPEAKER_01

I'm just saying I'm gonna have more customers. And then you have to have this real conversation of like, it's not reasonable to assume you're gonna have that many customers based on the area you're choosing to do and the prices you're choosing to charge.

SPEAKER_03

Or or like your marketing strategy is I'm gonna go on, I'm gonna market on Facebook. I can't afford marketing, I'm gonna go on Facebook and market. Okay. Have you ever marketed on Facebook? Right? Oh no, but I have a lot of friends on Facebook, that'll work. And so then they start this business thinking that they're gonna do a really great job marketing on Facebook, and they have 112 followers. They're like, I'm posting every day, but I'm not getting any results. I'm like, because three people might see your post per day. And like, that's not that's not marketing at all. That's like wasting time. That's like the definition of wasting time. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

That's like some of the advice I used to give early Michigan tribe days, and people like, I'm gonna start a Facebook page, an Instagram page, a website. And what did I tell you when you started your photography business?

SPEAKER_02

Don't build a don't do a website, don't do a website. Yeah, and I have six years and I have never made a website. And she's doing fine. And I'm doing fine. And I I give that advice all the time. The first thing that a lot of a lot of the people that I meet with, like you're saying, when they come and they have an idea and they want to start their LSC, they want to build their website. They want I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa.

SPEAKER_03

Wait, I'm gonna agree to disagree. Oh, really? Because I feel like you should at least have a landing page. Oh, okay, a landing page, which we kind of talked about. Yes, which I agree with. She has a Google form. Yes, I agree with that. That's fine because you you're like Google Analytics. People define you, you gotta have that. Yes.

SPEAKER_01

And here's so here's what I actually said. I didn't tell her, don't have a website. I said, what is the absolute most essential thing you need to let people know that you exist and allow them to book with you? I just like, and that's where the Google page came from. And I think it's at the end of the day, like the advice is what is what you absolutely know you need to make sure people legitimize your business? Because people can spend so much time on Instagram, TikTok, Snapchat, YouTube, um, you know, Facebook, Reels, like X, you can spend so much time and think you're working on your business, and at the end of that day, not have a single lead come your way because you either didn't know what you do you were doing on those channels, which is most of the time vocabulated. Most of the time, yeah. Um, or generally just that's all you spent your time doing when in reality you could have gone to uh, you know, stood outside of uh, you know, on the street corner, held up a sign, got just as much attention on your business. So, like, what do you need? What is the most essential attention getter you can do right now to get customers?

SPEAKER_03

And then go from there. Well, you have to know who your customers are too. Yeah. That's the other thing. And a lot of people don't, as we talked about, they don't do that customer discovery. How many people are out there that will buy your product or service? And one thing that I used to use is a customer avatar. Like, okay, where does your customer shop? What do they read? How old are they? Do they have children? Are they college educated? And I used my business as an example of what my perfect customer looked like. So that wasn't every customer. Yeah. But the if I'm gonna spend time marketing, I'm gonna spend time marketing to the biggest group. Because I am a business owner and I have to market, but I also have to do the bookkeeping and I have to do the HR and I have to unclug the garbage disposal and I have to shovel the snow, right? So I have all of those things. So I'm only gonna spend the time marketing to the biggest group of people. So they are mostly where they are most of the time, right? Yeah. And so if if you don't do that and you're marketing your you know, critter control business on TikTok, right? That's not the right. I mean, that could work. It could work.

SPEAKER_01

I'm gonna like that idea. Mouse I'm gonna like this. Get off Facebook. TikTok's your route, you know.

SPEAKER_00

That's hilarious.

SPEAKER_01

I'm just saying, if you're listening, you want a critter control business. Good advice.

SPEAKER_02

Um, I think we have uh time for one more question. Do you have one? I mean, I I mean I have a question, but I don't know. I have to say that all the questions you sent me before I even answer this.

SPEAKER_01

We haven't been on, we haven't been on uh if she didn't add that notation to the list of questions I sent, she should have. I was expecting her to be holding her phone up. I totally quick plant saw a couple words and was like, we can keep going. Ask your question. I mean, I definitely I could dive into so many avenues of what she said, but please.

SPEAKER_02

I'm just curious, you know, because you work with, I mean, gosh, I would love to know how many if you ever totaled that for the 10 years that you helped, did you guys do any of that?

SPEAKER_03

I would probably say I worked with 2,500 people. Okay. At least, at least, probably more than that. How many of those businesses are still I don't know that? I don't want to know, I don't want to do that research.

SPEAKER_02

So my question is, is out of those 2,500 people, like if you could imagine like some of the business owners that you really saw their journey see through and were successful, like if you could pick like maybe a few, what are the characteristics that they hold that you think got them to that to whatever their success. What were the patterns of that success that you saw?

SPEAKER_03

Uh, I think they came into the situation prepared. Like they didn't rush into it. You know, they they said they did their market research, um, they had experience in the industry, not just in the industry, but like like I'm gonna use a bread baker, like not just baking the bread, but managing a kitchen. Like having that type, and and you don't need all of that, but you at least need to know what you don't know and be able to fill those gaps. Putting together a solid business plan and knowing all of their numbers, they're able to get the financing they need or they have enough money in their savings to help them through those lean months before they get started. And then this is a big thing. I I've had so many people once they launch their business, I I'm gone from their brain. And so when they call me back, because oftentimes they do, it's because they've gone so far over the edge that like for me to pull them back up, it's I can't. Like it's just too far gone. And so I if you go to the SBDC, work with a consultant, and then stay with them, even if it's quarterly check-ins, yeah, and and they can help you look at your financial statements and make sure that everything is in align. They can look at your marketing strategy. They can and like a one thing that people uh have in their financial statements is you know, you've got your sales, you've got your cost of goods, and you've got your labor expense. You've got a lot of other things. But those three numbers have to be, those percentages have to be in alignment, right? So if you use a restaurant, for example, your food costs should be 30 to 35 percent, and then your labor cost, the total of those two should be 60 to 65 percent. If you are above that, uh you're losing money, right? Because there's the margins are so thin. And if you're not following that, then you're uh you're putting yourself out of business really quickly. So you know, if you check in with SBDC, they can help you make sure that oh, I see that the food costs are wrong, are off. Have you raised prices? Have your costs gone up? Let's look at that and see if we can fix this problem before it goes really south. And when I had my business, I updated my books every week and I checked those numbers every single week. Yeah. In the same way. Because I wanted to know in real time whether I was doing well or not doing well.

SPEAKER_01

So And if you're someone like me and you're listening, the advice I would give is so in my case, with the job that I have, I I have an incredible accountant that I'm super grateful for. In Michigan Tribe, I have a tribe, I have a sister who's very good with numbers. For someone like me who's not like that, definitely something I've learned, like you were saying earlier, is I sit down with those people and ask, what do you see when you look at this? Because I don't see it. I just see numbers and it's overwhelming and I can learn and I can get better at some things. But like I said, as things evolve and grow, it's constantly changing. And so for people who are either naturally good at that or have that skill set, I literally just ask everyone like, what do you see? Here's what I see. Yeah. What can I learn more? But what are you seeing that maybe I wouldn't ask a question about? Because for like I said, for someone like me, it just doesn't naturally catch my eye. But then, you know, when it comes to um you saying, you know, people go so far over the edge, whether it's SBDC or it's business friends or it's, you know, trusted people in the business, I think, you know, trusting when you see something trending downward or something catches your attention as a like a yellow flag, not even a red flag yet, just a yellow flag. I think like learning to say something sooner rather than later. Yeah because things snowball and the way they affect culture or the way they affect your overall business finding it becomes a huge problem that can take decades to come out of if you don't say something soon.

SPEAKER_03

And you can build a tool to help you. You don't have to look at a balance sheet, an income statement, a cash flow statement to understand what's going on in your business. You can build a scorecard, you can follow five numbers or ten numbers that'll tell you about the health of your business in a in a way that you can understand. And and I'll make a quick story. I know we're near the end. Yeah. Um, I worked with a woman who, you know, she she struggled with the numbers, and I built sort of a spreadsheet for her. She's like, I just don't get it. And so I said, All right, let's think about this in a different way. And we we did three, four iterations of this sort of spreadsheet, this scorecard for her. And finally she's like, Oh, I get this. If I plug in these billable hours here, and I put in, you know, these billable hours here, and and I don't touch the rest of it, then it tells me what my monthly income will be. And I said, yes. And she's like, she called it her sanity tracker. Yeah, she knew.

SPEAKER_01

I was just gonna say, Sean, do you want to do this? It'll be like for my life. It's like sleepless hours, like sleepless hour card, hours, time spent with your son because there's a snow day. Number of hours I've spent in one-on-one meeting.

SPEAKER_03

Yes, let's tell how long you'll be cranky. You will be very cranky tomorrow based on this church.

SPEAKER_01

Give me a heads up. Let's build a scorecard for life.

SPEAKER_02

Let's do that. I mean, this has been fantastic. I mean, one thing that I just want to reiterate before we close out here is like I'm working with a business right now that is exactly where you're saying it's too late to help. So it's heartbreaking. Um, it's very heartbreaking. And so I think, you know, if you're feeling some sort of way or it's trending down, do not wait. Because if you wait too long, we are not able to come up behind you and help. And so it just becomes even more sad. It does. So um I think that's just I just want to reiterate that. Like, it is okay to ask for help. And I think sometimes entrepreneurs have pride and they don't want to admit they need help, but there is a huge ecosystem to help you. Yeah. So please lean on that. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, Michigan SBDC services throughout, especially those in Jackson County. We have so many incredible resources. Just like ask for help, voice it, call a business friend, ask who they've used. We have incredible resources to make sure that business owners aren't alone, even though you are alone. Like you're gonna be a little alone, but you don't have to be all the way alone. Yeah, when you're shoveling the snow.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, you're by yourself.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, no one's out there helping you. Okay, Sean, one more question. Oh my gosh, I can't do it. She has to leave. If you were going to open a business, what industry would it be in? Oh, okay. Because I'm gonna go buy a business as soon as you don't exactly.

SPEAKER_03

I don't know. I like, I guess what success would look like to me would be how much I enjoy my life. So I would be maybe a travel vlogger. I would probably not make any money. It would cost me a travel.

SPEAKER_01

I love that for you.

SPEAKER_03

I love that for me too.

SPEAKER_01

Sean, thank you so much for returning from the depths of retirement. I'd be deep by two weeks. I'd be like, I'm like, no, I'm not coming. I'll be back. I'll come back. I mean, you'll be a third host. It's all good. We accept you. Thank you so much for coming and joining the My Tribe podcast. Your genius is embraced for many years to come by Michigan Tribe because we are just such huge fans of the advice that you would give our entrepreneurs, the dedication that you had to making sure that business owners um made it through good times, hard times, and everything that Michigan has to offer is business ownership does. So thank you so much for joining us uh on the My Tribe Podcast.

SPEAKER_02

Thanks, Sean Halloween.

SPEAKER_01

Talk to me.

SPEAKER_02

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