Episode 14

In this episode of Meghan’s Place: Conversations on Healing, host Meghan is joined by Pastor Sean Miller of Saratoga Federated Church for an honest conversation about resilience, healing, and finding hope through difficult seasons.

Pastor Sean shares how resilience has shaped both his personal life and ministry, and how his understanding of strength and healing has evolved through the challenges he has experienced. Together, Meghan and Pastor Sean explore the pressure we can feel to stay strong and move forward quickly, while also recognizing the importance of giving ourselves space to process, heal, and care for our emotional, mental, and relational well-being.

They also discuss what it looks like to endure difficult circumstances while remaining healthy and grounded, including the importance of supportive relationships, healthy practices, and creating space for peace and hope.

Whether you are walking through a challenging season yourself or supporting someone who is, this conversation offers a reminder that resilience is not about going through hardship alone—it is about allowing ourselves to heal and discovering hope along the way.

Music Credit: Fresh Lift © 2016 by Shane Ivers

**The podcast is currently on hiatus, but we invite you to explore past episodes featuring practical insights, research-informed guidance, and encouragement for everyday life. These conversations are designed to support listeners on their journey toward lasting change and holistic well-being.

Transcript

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SPEAKER_00 0:09

Hi, welcome to Megan's Place Conversations on Healing. I'm your host, Megan, and today we will be going into a conversation about resilience and overcoming challenges with our guest, Pastor Sean. We're so happy to have you here, Pastor Sean. Do you want to introduce yourself a little bit and share with us a little bit about you?

SPEAKER_01 0:29

Yeah, um, I grew up in the Bay Area. Um, I left for 20 years. I came back and started at a church in the Saratoga area uh six weeks before COVID. And so it's been an interesting journey. Yeah, yeah. So, but uh love what I do and um God's really shown up a lot over the last six and a half years.

SPEAKER_00 0:55

Thank you for sharing about that. I'm sure starting as a pastor at a church right before COVID led to a fair share of challenges, um, which kind of leads me into my first question that I wanted to ask you, which is about resilience. I know you've shared with me that resilience has played a really important role throughout both your life and your ministry. And so I'm curious about what your personal journey with resilience has looked like and how your understanding of resilience has evolved over time.

SPEAKER_01 1:23

Yeah, um I'd I'd say in the last decade, there have been um several um losses that I've experienced and um have walked through some pretty deep grief and um have come out on the other side really in some amazing ways. Um, and so one of those losses was the loss of an amazing job that I had um for years. And um, losing that job really sent me into a place where um I was questioning God, questioning my faith, questioning why I went into ministry in the first place, and all of that. And uh, and it was really uh an unfortunate unfortunate and unjust uh losing of the job. And uh to be able to work through that, um, I had just a lot of people around me. And um and the other loss was the loss of my younger brother. Um he died of cancer when he at the age of I think he was 52. Um, and just walking through that loss, he's the first person in my sort of immediate uh family and friendship group that has passed away. I've been around a lot of death as a pastor, but uh first person in my family. And so just walk through that was um was uh a lot. And then um the loss of my marriage. Um I was married for over 30 years, and um my spouse decided to walk away from that and walk away from their faith and um kind of uh just say, I'm done with everything. And so my experience in that is that um grief and loss are not things that we just get over. Um in the world and in the Christian world, especially, there's a lot of kind of helpful advice that people give that's really not all that helpful. Um, and there are some really good things as well. Um, but one of the biggest things that I learned um going through it in the middle of it is that I wasn't going to get over it, but I was going to learn how to carry it. I was going to learn how to deal with it. And for that, there was just a ton of um people in my life that helped me walk through that. There's some tools that I used along the way. And then there's just been this pattern in my life of um looking back and being shocked at how uh where I am, you know, in terms of the journey that I've been on. The way I say it as a pastor is God continues to show me that He does way more than I can ask or think. If you would have told me that I would be um where I am right now three years ago, I would have said, you're absolutely crazy. And uh yet God keeps shocking me and surprising me. Um I've been able to uh really move into a place where I am enjoying ministry more than ever. Um and God brought somebody into my life where I'm experiencing love. I got married a year ago.

SPEAKER_00 4:32

Oh, congratulations.

SPEAKER_01 4:33

Yeah, yeah. And so I've been experiencing a level of love that I've I've never known. And um, and so I'm just um shocked and in awe about how God does those things. So, and it was a lot of work too. Don't get me wrong, there's a ton of work involved.

SPEAKER_00 4:50

Yeah, you know, it's one thing to be able to say, oh yes, well, I'm at this point now, and this is what it looks like. Um, and sometimes, you know, when you're when you come out the other side, it's almost like you are phrasing it in a way where you just jumped right over all of the hard stuff. But I love that you added in that point of, you know, I'm here now, but it was really hard getting through it, you know. You really had to walk through that pain and that hurt and the loss to get to where you are today. And it's a beautiful place where you are, but it wasn't easy to get there.

SPEAKER_01 5:21

No, absolutely not.

SPEAKER_00 5:23

Yeah. And I'm curious, like as a pastor and a leader, I know that you've likely um, you know, this really goes into what you were saying. You've experienced the seasons that have challenged you personally and professionally. Um I guess I'm curious how those things have shaped how you approach healing and leadership today.

SPEAKER_01 5:46

Yeah, I don't, I don't give small tidbits of advice anymore. Um, I I normally will share my story or parts of my story and just spend time with people that are hurting to come alongside them. I know there's almost no problem that somebody's going through that I'm gonna be able to fix it. Um, but I can be present there with them. And that's I had a group of friends um that I have built relationships with over the last um 15, 20 years. And they were they were all just present with me. Now, a couple of them actually did do some pretty skillful stuff. One is a therapist, and um, he got me off the edge of the cliff and was just was phenomenal, good friend of mine. And then the other was a spiritual director that I had been working with for uh many years already, knew me really well, uh, knew my story, my journey as a pastor, and uh knew my family. And uh I think she saved my faith, really, because I was it was one of those situations where um when my marriage ended, I was I was shocked. And I thought, wait a minute, I did everything that you're supposed to do. I you know, I crossed all the T's, dah, dah, dah, the I's mean I'm not perfect, uh, but wait, I I walked the walk, you know, and why is this happening? So I I really had to deal with that between me and God, and and I had to get help doing that. And so when I come alongside people, part of what I do is I share my story, um, especially on where I'm at now. I'm able to say, you're gonna be shocked one day, I believe. Now, I don't know the future, but I believe that you know God will be faithful to you. Um and uh and then with the loss of my brother, uh, and so I I do deal with a lot of death and a lot of I do a lot of memorials. Um, I'm with people in the hospital at those last moments uh sometimes. And um it's the eternal perspective. And so um I don't try to make it fancy. I just uh I just believe that you know, even though we walk through the valley of the shadow of death, God is with us. We don't have to fear anything. And so um less is more sometimes just to be present with people.

SPEAKER_00 8:03

And I think, you know, it's one of those things that, well, as a therapist, I can say too that I don't think there's anything more powerful than just being able to sit with someone and be a caring presence while they're going through the hardest time in their lives. You know, sometimes, especially right after something big happens, all we can do is sit with someone, you know. Sometimes there's no amount of skill in the world that can change anything about what's going on. You know, sometimes the biggest skill is just sitting with someone and also sharing too. And it's a little bit different on the therapy side because there's, you know, sometimes sharing about yourself is a little frowned upon in big doses. Um but you know, it there's still a lot of power in it. Um and I've found that people do respond well as long as you know the whole session doesn't become about me.

SPEAKER_01 8:52

Absolutely, absolutely. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:55

Um yeah, and you know, kind of on that topic of going through difficult seasons, I know that sometimes there's this pressure to be strong and move forward quickly. Um so I'm wondering like what you've learned about allowing yourself the space to process difficult experiences while continuing to care for your emotional, mental, and relational well-being.

SPEAKER_01 9:19

Yeah, that's that's a hard one too, because um, when you're going through those deep times, especially with grief, there's very well-meaning people that want you to get over it yesterday.

SPEAKER_00 9:30

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 9:31

And um, there's people that were in my life during all three of these times that they wanted me to move faster than I needed to move uh or should have been moving. And they also wanted to be the one to help me. It's like they needed me to need them. And um, and so as you're going through these times, it really, it really is important. Uh, one of the things I did was um I journaled a lot. Um, I did a grief creative writing course for a year. And um, I did an intensive 30-day one, then I did a year-long one. And um, it really just helped me look back to see that I am making progress, regardless of if I have a really bad day, or you know, I just I hit a wall of sadness or whatever it might be. Um, and so to document that stuff for me was really, really important. And um, and then I I got a couple tools. They're not Christian tools, um, but there's a book called It's Okay to Not Be Okay, or It's Okay That You're Not Okay. Megan Divine. Yes, she is phenomenal. And that gave a whole different twist on the grief process and how we, especially in the Western world, especially in American Christianity, even want to approach grief. And uh, it is a journey that's a really, really long one. And I'm I still am carrying my grief from this very beautiful spot that I'm in, but it comes up in different ways. And so, and maybe maybe instead of you know crying or something like that, uh, something triggers me and I get really angry or I get bitterness starts creeping in. And so um I've chosen different themes each year. And for 2026, um, my theme this year has been to work through any anger and bitterness that I am carrying uh over the last you know decade of things that have happened, those three things that I went through. Um and at first, when I was sitting there, I I didn't I couldn't even say the words like, I forgive you. And I've tried to work through this for over a decade. Um, but the more you stick with it and the more patient you are, it it comes. And eventually I was able to say out loud, I forgive you. I forgive you. I for and just whatever it might be. And so so the pacing is is important, and it's also important to remember everybody's different. So um somebody else's journey is not our journey, and that's that's where the presence comes in, just the consistent presence and friendship.

SPEAKER_00 12:05

Yeah, and I feel like that's something so I guess nuanced in the field is, you know, on one hand, we have these like stages of grief, they're all laid out. Um, they were the ones developed by Elizabeth Kubler Ross. Um, you know, I think it was five stages, but now it's expanded to seven. Um, and it's kind of sad that, you know, everyone goes through those stages. But I think too that beyond that, maybe those stages all happen, but I think that they happen at different times for every person. And I also don't think that every person hits every single one of those stages either as they go through it. You know, some people maybe they experienced anticipatory grief leading up to the loss. So maybe they had most of those stages of grief before the loss actually happened.

SPEAKER_01 12:54

Interesting, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:54

Um, and you never know, it can come in so many different ways, but I think that you're absolutely right. It's different for everyone. Um and I think that's I agree, the presence is the most important thing that you can bring.

SPEAKER_01 13:09

Yeah, absolutely. And there's a couple other uh books that I'll throw out that really helped me. Uh they're both by Maggie Smith. And uh one is um, I think it's called Just Keep Going or something like that, or Keep Moving.

SPEAKER_00 13:25

Yeah, I think you're yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:27

And then the other one is You Can Make This Place Beautiful, which is sort of her experience through loss and grief uh of her marriage. And um yeah, I've given those books to people, you know, just to encourage them and stuff. But uh yeah, especially the the one on poetry, it was really helpful to every day just have a poem to read and just okay, another step forward.

SPEAKER_00 13:48

Yeah, and I find too that um I love recommending books to people because so often, you know, especially in you know, sitting with someone, especially if for me, like maybe I'm not sharing what I've been through with them, having being able to recommend a book or something like that can allow them to still feel like someone understands them and like someone else has been through what they've been through and that they're not alone in it. And you know, I know that you have been able to remain healthy through all of these things, you know, emotionally, mentally, relationally. Um, and so that makes me wonder like what practices or sources of support have been most meaningful for you? Um, books could be one of them, but um beyond that, I'm curious what else, what other tools you've tried and practices you do.

SPEAKER_01 14:47

Yeah, so the therapy and the spiritual direction were key and friendships have been key. Um, I um I do a lot of running and walking. I used to do a lot of ultra cycling. Um and so for me, exercise has been something that centers me really, really well. And um, sometimes I listen to music, but also oftentimes um I'm listening to a podcast or a book on tape uh or something like that. And uh it's it's really been my time to connect with myself. And then uh I also have a playlist that I'll put on, and it's it's really the way that I talk to God. Uh, outside of sitting on my front porch, it's moving. And so those extended times of walking, running, cycling have been the moments that have kept me in rhythm. Um, if I don't exercise for very long, I'm like a dog that needs to get a walk and he doesn't get one. So he starts chewing things up. And so I need to get out and and move my body. And I I didn't learn that until after, I think it was in late college when I learned that it was it was a game changer for me. Um, because I was an athlete in high school and college, but then when I was on my own, nobody was telling me to do anything, and so I just didn't.

SPEAKER_00 16:04

Right.

SPEAKER_01 16:04

Uh and then I realized, oh, you're there's a design that you have, and for other people, it might be something else, but uh, for me, it's just the consistency of connecting to God and connecting to my my own soul that have been the rhythms. And so there's things like meditation and prayer and um an audio book, like I said, all those different things play into that. Usually those things are happening when I'm when I'm moving.

SPEAKER_00 16:30

Absolutely. And I completely agree with you. I feel like exercise is it's just an absolute game changer for mental health. Um, you know, I've experienced that, especially with running. It's changed my life for the better. And um, you know, I think almost anyone I've talked to can agree with that. You know, when you really get into it, you can notice how much you rely on it and um how important it is to improve and help you get through these things. It um it helps you process your emotions in so many different ways too.

SPEAKER_01 17:04

Absolutely. Yeah, when you're on a hundred-mile bike ride, you have a lot of time to kind of deal with what's going on and you can go through all the stages of grief on one bike ride. And uh, so that's that, yeah, it really helps.

SPEAKER_00 17:19

Yeah, you're like bargaining halfway through.

SPEAKER_01 17:22

Yeah, yeah. I'm gonna turn this bike around.

SPEAKER_00 17:25

Yes, I'm I am cannot believe I'm only two miles in.

SPEAKER_01 17:31

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 17:32

Yeah. Do you still do ultra cycling at this point?

SPEAKER_01 17:35

No, I I got into um more just sort of like swimming, running, cycling, um, that sort of stuff. And um just trying to get I I used to go to the gym, but I don't go to the gym anymore. I just try to do stuff on my own and that sort of thing. But it was taking so much time to do that stuff and to train for a marathon, to train for a triathlon. And I just decided I I could just do less and have more time to do other things. And so that's kind of been my approach to that. But try I try for at least an hour a day or more. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:07

It's still really good. I totally understand that with um sometimes it just starts to take too long.

SPEAKER_01 18:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:15

Um, it becomes a bit of a time commitment, but it's an important commitment to yourself. Um yeah, well, you know, I am so appreciative of everything that you've shared today. And I'm wondering if for our listeners, you have any additional little tidbits of advice or um little pearls of wisdom that you'd like to share.

SPEAKER_01 18:34

Yeah, I would say something that I didn't know I was doing. I mean, if if I worked this out, you know, systematically, I would have said, Oh, yeah, this is what I'm doing. But I just never thought about it. But I I had these tools in place before I hit these three big grief things, these three big losses in my life. And I had had loss before that I felt like was tragic in its own way. But um yeah, these tools, the people, the spiritual direction, the therapy, the reading, and all of the personal spiritual habits that I have or exercise habits, because they were in place, all I had to do was keep doing what I've been doing and trusting that the process would lead me where I need to go, which is healing.

SPEAKER_00 19:20

So yeah, I think that's such a good point, too, is I feel like so often we wait for something terrible to happen to begin engaging in you know healthy habits for us and learning coping skills. But if you have those things in place, you can be so much more resilient if something happens.

SPEAKER_01 19:39

Yes. One other thing that was uh that I forgot during my deepest grief, I had a I had a group of about eight people that were in my life and all over the world, really. And I could text all of them or I could text one or two of them. Uh, there were a couple of moments. I've never struggled with a like a panic attack in my life, but I did during this season. And I was able to and get an immediate response, even if I'm on the other side of the earth on some trip or something like that. So, you know, again, just thinking who are those people that will be in your corner and will be there kind of they're your three o'clock in the morning people. I had a friend that used to say that, you know, I need a few of those in my life. So that's the other little last tip that I would give.

SPEAKER_00 20:24

You know, having those people on speed dial, I think is the best option, you know, and finding the people that not only can they be that for you, but you can be that for them.

SPEAKER_01 20:35

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 20:36

And maybe trading off in the seasons that that happens in. But yeah, I think that that's such a good point. It's very important having that support system. And, you know, again, Pastor Sean, I'm so grateful for, you know, how vulnerable you were and sharing your story. I think that our listeners are always very appreciative when people are able to share really from the heart about what they've been through and how they came out on the other side. I think that it can be really inspirational. Um, and so I really appreciate that.

SPEAKER_01 21:06

Absolutely. Yeah, thanks for having me on.

SPEAKER_00 21:09

Of course. And to our listeners, thank you so much for tuning in to this episode of Megan's Place Conversations on Healing. You can tune in every other Monday for a new episode about resilience and overcoming challenges. Thank you so much. I'm your host right now.