People, Purpose & Communication | The Human Side of Business with Lyndsey & Tash

In this episode of the Built By Her Podcast, Georgie sits down with Lyndsey and Tash, the founders behind HumanKind, a consultancy supporting SME founders with strategy, communication and people-focused leadership.

After 15 years building and scaling a family-run SME into a £40 million turnover business, Lyndsey made the decision to step away and start something new. Alongside Tash, who transitioned from employed roles into consultancy, they now work with small business owners and leaders to create clarity, direction and stronger team dynamics.

Together, they explore what leadership really looks like behind the scenes, from navigating fear and self-doubt to redefining purpose and stepping outside your comfort zone.

In this episode, we cover:

• Moving from employment to self-employment as a woman in business
 • Female leadership in SME environments
 • Why communication is the foundation of team culture
 • How assumptions and misalignment impact business performance
 • Values, purpose and long-term business strategy
 • Psychometrics, team dynamics and conflict resolution
 • Creating space for founders who feel overwhelmed or stuck

If you’re a female founder, small business owner, or leader navigating growth and change, this episode offers practical insight into communication, clarity and building a business that actually works for you and your team.

If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, leave a review, or share it with someone building something of their own.

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Transcript

Welcome + Meet Tash (People & Communication Focus)

SPEAKER_02 0:00

So, firstly, both welcome so much to our Built by Her podcast. Can you please introduce yourself and who you are and where you're from and what you do?

SPEAKER_00 0:07

Right, so I'm Tash Cuffley, formerly Natasha. Um I've just moved into consultancy, so working under the humankind banner with Lindsay, who'll introduce herself in a second.

SPEAKER_02 0:20

What do you do? What's what what's your job role within humankind?

SPEAKER_00 0:24

So I'm an associate consultant. Yeah. What does that mean? I don't even know what that means. Well, it's um I'm just a consultant in my own right, yeah. But working under the umbrella of humankind as well. Amazing.

SPEAKER_02 0:37

And what sort of thing do you offer then as part of that consultancy? So I've kind of If I was coming to you with a problem, what would you solve for me?

SPEAKER_00 0:46

I so it's all around people in communication for me. Yeah. So all the experience and knowledge I've gained over my lifetime of work and just relationships in general is what I want to bring to the consultancy. So around um communication is so key for me. I think it's key for everyone, isn't it? It really is, yeah. And if there's miscommunication, everything goes just a bit wrong, a bit sideways. Um so and at the heart of that is people as well, looking after people. Um, so everything around that, the whole HR cycle around people, making sure um people are communicated with, understand what's going on, what their part is in that, yeah, um, and if there's a problem, try and find a solution for that problem and help them implement it. So it sounds a bit woolly at the moment, still evolving, but it's all based around people and communications and getting that right.

SPEAKER_02 1:42

That is actually really hard to get right, actually, in any company. Like people are really hard in all capacities, like you can have one person that you completely click with and one you don't, and actually gelling that together is a really difficult task.

SPEAKER_00 1:55

And also realising that everyone's got something going on, including yourself. Yeah, you don't know what that is. Yeah, people just get out of bad out of bed and have a bit of a bad day, and uh you don't know what's behind it, but you just it's just being able to actively listen as well. That's something I'm learning a lot more. Yeah, not just listening to respond, listening to really understand. Yeah uh takes quite a bit of practice. I had a lot of practice, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:24

And

Meet Lindsay (From £40M SME to Founder of HumanKind)

SPEAKER_02 2:25

Lindsay, please introduce yourself. What do you do?

SPEAKER_01 2:28

I am Lindsay, I'm uh founder of Humankind. So I was um in our family business for the last 15 years, so building up a small one SME, um, there were 40 of us, uh turned it into a 40 million turnover company. I felt like I needed something else for myself to be able to keep growing, and I really wanted to help other founders and SMEs bring something new for themselves and and to keep growing as well, and to be able to bring my kind of experience in an SME world in construction into other people's companies too. Um, for me, I'm the opposite side of the um spectrum to Tashi, really. Um I really love all the direction and clarity I can bring in terms of strategy. I I'm really curious, so I really love talking to people and finding out what they're all about in in the big picture kind of thing. So um that's where I would start, and I would I really love my my my background psychology, so I love psychometrics, I love um just getting to know the person and seeing what they value in life and finding out what their purpose is to see how they want to move forward with their company. Um that's that's what I really love. So that's where I start with companies.

SPEAKER_02 3:51

Wow. So before humankind,

Turning 50 & Starting Again

SPEAKER_02 3:53

what was it that you were doing that then drove you to set up humankind?

SPEAKER_01 3:58

Um well, I've worked with my husband for 15 years, and you know, there's a lot of identity tied up with that as well, which has been a great journey for for me. Tash worked with me for the last four and a half years as well, and um very much on the people side of things as well in the business. But in terms of coming out of the company, I really just woke up one day and thought I need to do something for me. I turned 50 last year. I think there's a big thing in that where it's a time of transition, and I kind of thought, I've got 25 good years of energy, like 25 summers, you know, I need to make the most, and I want to go and help others. And I think for me and Tash both, we have got a real desire to help other people to find their true selves and to be able to grow to their full potential. So I wanted to do that. Aside from that, um, I really like the well-being side of things as well. So I've gone into complementary therapy, so I spend some of my time doing reflexology in Reiki, and I spend some of my time doing the business consultancy, but I actually think they work really well together. That well-being, it's it's really interesting where you get business from, and sometimes it's from doing people's feet. Um, so it's an interesting thing. Nice.

SPEAKER_02 5:13

That's really collecting to humans, putting their toes. I know. So obviously, you've obviously had a business prior to humankind. Yeah. Have you found this time around it's been different? You've learned something new, the past has been able to be transitioned in, or has it been like actually this is this is not what I expected, but it's great. Do you want me to go first?

Leaving Comfort Zones & Embracing Fear

SPEAKER_01 5:37

You go first. I think there's a lot of things that are will come in from experience wise in the previous company. Um I think it I think both of us are learning loads at the moment. Um I don't think I was able to be so creative in the previous company because I felt like at the end I was kind of answering questions, but not being able to use my creative side to be able to bring new things. Um so, in terms of what is coming, I know that it I've got to embrace the fear in that as well, because I don't have everything polished or anything like that. I've just got to concentrate on the people and being able to understand what other people want and not have everything in place. Um so yeah, I I bring lots of experience in some ways, but I've got to adapt it in different ways. Yeah. Um, and that's just uh that's part of everybody's growth journey, I think.

SPEAKER_02 6:41

Yeah. So it's definitely new every day, isn't it, when you're running a business. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:45

Yeah.

From Employed to Self-Employed

SPEAKER_02 6:46

What about yourself?

SPEAKER_00 6:47

I've basically forgotten the question, but where I'm gonna go with it is I love that. Because that was minutes ago now, not seconds. But yeah, find myself in a space that I wasn't expecting. Yeah. Um, really trying to embrace that, I mean joy in embracing that, finding out lots about myself, which I didn't know. Um, finding out even more about Lynns, which I didn't know, which is surprising because she's my little sister. We've she's been my best friend forever, but um, we're finding more and more about out about each other, and just having this is the first time ever, probably in my working life that I've had some space to actually work out who I am and what what I can really give. I've always been in an employed role, always. So I've kind of I've always known what that role is, what my value is, I suppose, which is hugely important to me, um, and what others understand and perceive that to be as well. So this space now is trying to understand what that looks like when I'm out on my, I mean, we've got each other, but out effectively trying to build up a client base, show what I can do without big teams around me.

SPEAKER_02 7:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:59

So it's lovely that we can come back together under the umbrella of humankind, help each other and support each other, but yeah, just trying to find out what I can now give just as me is pretty scary but exciting as well.

Empowerment, Growth & Multiple Hats

SPEAKER_01 8:16

I think both of us have have found as well that it's a really empowering thing, isn't it? Um we've you know, you can feel empowered as a woman as well or as a person, but in this whole journey, because we're doing it all all ourselves, and it's going back to the basics again, going back to when we started like our company with with my husband, um, and doing having lots of different hats. So it's going back to having lots of different hats and actually really enjoying that again, um, and feeling like you're you're contributing so much more because you're doing all of these things and you're relearning and learning new skills as well. Um there's also a fear that goes along with that, and it's kind of we we've talked about this a lot, um, being able to walk with fear and and have fear as a friend, as a supportive friend, rather than thinking, right, I've got to banish you. It's taking that and and using it as something to drive you forward. Yeah, yeah. And that's what I think both of us have really uh gone for a journey with that already in the last couple of months, kind of thing.

SPEAKER_00 9:21

Because the easiest thing to do in the world is go back to your comfort zone, isn't it? Yeah, and it's kind of where you default to. Yeah. So there's a bit of flip-flopping for me, I think. Both of both of us up to where we're comfortable, but then we know we've got to keep pushing outside of that because when you when you do do that, you can see, and you know, over time we've seen how much that has helped us grow.

SPEAKER_01 9:42

You keep having like enlightenment moments as well, don't you? Like all the way through this journey. Like our relationship changes all the time, and you like Tash said, you wouldn't think that that could happen now. Yeah, but it really does, and that but we keep I think growing from that, and there's uncomfortable moments, but we keep growing from it all the time. Yeah, it's fascinating.

SPEAKER_02 10:02

Yeah,

The False Sense of Security in Employment

SPEAKER_02 10:03

I think it's quite hard as well, going from being employed to being self-employed. It's a very different mindset. Yes, it's I think when you're employed, you actually have the false sense of security. Yeah, you think that actually my job's coming, like I've got my pay, I've got my job, like it's very like this. Is what I do, like you just said. Exactly. And when you become self-employed, you're like, uh I'm kind of making this money. And that's really hard. And like you said about fear, like um, someone told me the other day that that fear is just false evidence acting real. Yes. And I was like, actually, that's a really good saying because it is just what you're thinking it's going to be, and then you make it feel like that's actually what's gonna happen. Then you're like, ah, this isn't great, and then you're like, ah, this is so uncomfortable, I don't like it. And your mindset is massive to do with like stopping that. Um, so going from employee to self-employed is a big transition. Yeah, and I can imagine for you and it probably was a bit different because you kind of were already self-employed to it to an extent. Um that transition's really hard. Um, I can see why you're like, ah, that's what we're doing today. And you don't have the structure like when you're in like a job, you're kind of like accountable to your boss or the company, you're still accountable to your company now, but you kind of think, oh, I can I can do this today.

SPEAKER_00 11:18

I'm gonna go and do this today. Being accountable to myself, so oh what's that look like? Yeah, because I love to see other people being accountable for what they do and help them to do that because when when people aren't, nothing really gets done. So, but now I've got to be accountable to myself.

SPEAKER_02 11:35

Yeah, it is um yeah, it's actually really hard, it's the hardest bit. It's a ride.

SPEAKER_01 11:40

Yeah, and emotional very occasional there's a lot of freedom in it though as well. I think to be self-employed, it's one of those things where um you've got to be okay with the both sides of it, haven't you? Yeah, and uh and it's an uncomfortable thing sometimes, but I I mean I I love it. I love it anyway.

SPEAKER_00 11:59

Yeah, I had a bit of an aha moment this week and feel like we we kind of reached a bit of a point, didn't we? We had to like work things through again. Yeah, which we always do, always have done, always will. Um and yeah, I feel like it shifted again and it's opened up again.

SPEAKER_02 12:14

So yeah, it's lovely. It is a bit like stepping out of a comfort zone though. When you do it once, it then like becomes a lot easier. So then that zone gets bigger and it's like a moment of learning. Ah, okay, I've got this now, let's keep going. I've got this. It's easy. It's easy. So for someone um looking to humankind, what sort of parts would they be looking to come to you which you could

What HumanKind Actually Helps With

SPEAKER_02 12:35

help them with?

SPEAKER_01 12:36

Okay, well, we've got different things that we're looking at, and between us we can kind of cover all angles. Um for me, if I I really love speaking to founders, you know, and um micro businesses really, and but we come from an SME background. So for me, I really like going in and just having initial conversations and just being curious and seeing what is needed and seeing where somebody needs to try and look to go. So I would probably start with doing a values exercise with somebody, um, and then depending on what's going on, seeing if we could go into trying to get some direction with that longer term so that we can, you know, not go fully into a planning mode, but get some direction for um just ten years, three years, one year, whatever whatever. Um I really like that side of things. I really like the idea of workshops and being able to bring that into a space as well. I I I've come from a recruitment background, I've come from a training background, and I come from an account management background. So anywhere that I can help connect people as well, I'm all down for that. Um, so but I really, really like starting with the value side of things and then seeing where that goes without without too much of a plan because it's really what the company needs and not a specific route that needs to be followed.

SPEAKER_03 14:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:06

Um, because that could take you down lots of different angles, and what that could be there might be something that is needed where you need to look at a people strategy, or there's something where you might people might be having um a lot of change going on, and we would probably get involved in that together, possibly, you know. There's conflict resolution, which actually Tashi's really good at. But um, all of those different sides of things. So whether it's whether it's starting with direction and clarity, or whether it's um moving on to processes so that people can uh make sure that they're doing everything right within a company, we can help

Fractional Leadership & Getting Stuck In

SPEAKER_01 14:42

with that.

SPEAKER_00 14:42

Um but you should probably talk about the other bits of how you like doing anyway. I think, like we've said, and we've agreed it's kind of our vision, isn't it, to create space for founders and uh and leaders and um owners of SMEs, which we found we never had, yeah, or we had to give ourselves to move forward. So it's creating that space, whatever that looks like. So where Linda said she would look about, look at the strategies and the values and where that takes you, I'm more on the fractional side, which I've only just discovered is a thing. That's apparently what it's called, but yeah, more fractional management. So I think going in um maybe a day or two a week to somewhere that needs a certain project done, but getting stuck in. So I like getting really stuck into like doing, yeah. Um I think we both do in different ways and at different points. So like going in, finding out what a problem might be, um, then work pulling all the right people together to decide what we're gonna do with that, and then actually help implement if that's what someone wants. So put a process in place, make sure everyone's accountable and everyone knows what they've got to do. So, yeah, without any specific examples, I know it can feel a bit woolly because it's so big and it's constantly evolving, and we're trying to narrow that down. But those because we wore a lot of hats in um the SME that we were in and that Lindsay's company, and lots of other hats that I wore in of course I was in the public sector for a long time before that, bringing all that together and trying to fit that into a little neat sentence. It's quite hard. I'm trying to get there.

SPEAKER_01 16:23

Yeah, it

From Spinning in Circles to Strategic Clarity

SPEAKER_01 16:24

comes from a place where I think I know that when we were a younger company in in previous life, we were spinning around in circles and we didn't have any clarity with what we were doing or where we were going. So we I think for us, we put these structures in place. I I put a business model in place and implemented it through the company, and it changed the way that we did things. Everybody could have um like measurables and accountable, um accountabilities much more easily, you know. So um people knew where they were going, yeah, and that could be from the biggest picture to the the detail, yeah, you know. But we did all of that and um and it really helped to shape things and m move everything forward so you could reach your goals a lot more easily. So it's about that. It's it's getting the big picture and being able to move it to being able to know where you're going and and uh a plan to get there as well. So we we would do all of that, whether it is people, it might be recruitment, it might be HR delivery, it might be conflict resolution, it might be change management, it could be all of those things. It depends where a company is and where they need to start, but we would go in and look at all of that and see what's missing. I think for me, I always like seeing where the gaps were. Yeah. So just by being curious and talking to people, you kind of find out what where the holes are and how how you build around them, you know.

SPEAKER_02 17:45

And it's sometimes quite good to get that outside perspective because actually when you're in it, you like don't look back like ever. Like you understand that I need to do this, I need to do that, and you forget the bigger picture. Sometimes you forget what your goal is, you forget how far you've come potentially, and actually for someone to come in and be like, This is where your gaps are, this is where we can help, this is actually an issue that you're seeing, yeah, um, is really important. But I also think when you're like running a business, especially like the growth element, the constant learning is always there, and sometimes you actually don't know what you need to learn next. Exactly, yeah. And that's really important, and like doing like a values exercise, for example, like it you have to really reflect on yourself to know what's important to you, and sometimes you forget, like you forget that actually, no, this is really important to me, I need to prioritize it because it's gonna impact this if I don't.

Values, Purpose & The Core of Leadership

SPEAKER_01 18:33

But that's where you get your purpose from. Yeah. So when you do that, um, it can bring you back to the core of you, which is what drives you. And if you don't deal with that, then you're just moving along and you don't know if the purpose is right, yeah, because you've not given yourself enough space to figure out if that's the thing that you want to do or not, you know.

SPEAKER_02 18:53

And that so it needs to start from there sometimes, but and like you said, when you start the business, it can evolve so much and change direction that actually maybe your purpose at the start is maybe a little bit different from when it's very different in six months, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 19:07

We don't know. No, it's pointing at me because she knows what I'm like, like that's the future.

SPEAKER_00 19:13

It will, won't it? It's gonna evolve and change.

The Real Impact of Miscommunication

SPEAKER_02 19:15

She knows what it's gonna look like, but yeah. And actually, communication's another big, big part. I think. Um, I think in yourself, you can think you're good at communication, I can have a conversation, I can chat to someone, and then like a hard conversation comes up, and you're like, I'm probably not gonna have that conversation today, and then it puts you off, puts you off, and then you're like, actually, that's really detrimental to what I'm doing. Yeah, so like even having someone coach you through, like, yeah, actually, this is how you approach that conversation, like this is how it can look, yeah, is fundamental really to a business or anything that you're doing in life.

SPEAKER_00 19:46

Yeah, and I think one of the big things for me, one of the biggest lessons I've learned as well, is assumptions. So many people assume, we all assume at some point, but even as small as a smaller thing as um, well, I thought you were doing that, and they're not, um, and then there's a domino effect, yeah, and then things aren't getting done, purely because of a bit of miscommunication. So it's just being out there and like trying to pull all those pieces together. I like to pull threads together and work it. Well, make sure everyone knows what's going on, because it's amazing what can go wrong just by simple communication going wrong.

“But Did They Actually Hear You?”

SPEAKER_01 20:23

But even with assumptions as well, sorry. Um knowing that you've communicated in a way that the other person understands, you know, because you I get this a lot where somebody will say, But I told them, you know, but did they hear you? Yeah. Did they properly hear you? And did they take it in the same way as you meant it? You know? And that happens all the time. And then everybody goes off and does their own thing in completely the wrong way because you haven't clarified that that is actually what you aren't doing, and they've just taken it some something different. So that happens a lot, doesn't it? It does, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:57

And I think different personality types really impact that. Like the way that I'd probably like to be spoken to to the way you might not want to be spoken to are very different. Yeah. And I guess if you don't know that, you just assume that I've told them the way that I like to be spoken to, so they get that, and they're like, no, I don't know what you're saying.

SPEAKER_01 21:13

So

Psychometrics & Team Dynamics

SPEAKER_01 21:14

that's one of my favourite things as well. And team dynamics, psychometrics, all of those things are really fascinating to me. Just um being able to, I mean, we we we deal with psychometrics anyway, and we've got different ones that we can use for different purposes, whether it's for the individual or for teams. But for somebody to understand it's like having a star sign or a personality, uh a different personality, or you know, different things that make up a person, psychometric will be another one of those things. So it gives you another indication of what you're looking at and what your communication styles are and your communication preferences, um and that can really help other people to understand how to talk to you, and and also it can help. Alleviate frustrations as well. Because you know, I don't I'm more big picture than Tasha. Tashi's more detailed than I am. So we kind of meet in the middle, but we understand each other.

SPEAKER_00 22:10

We can stretch into those things. We can stretch into those things. Go back to uncomfortable places.

SPEAKER_01 22:14

Yeah, but we have to try and understand that the other person is a little bit uncomfortable in that space, and you might need to give me a bit more time to do that.

SPEAKER_00 22:23

Or you're coming up with a lovely idea, one of your million ideas, which says awesome. And I'm like, oh, we've gotta we've gotta ground some of this. But then Lynn's has taught me that I don't have to do that straight away. Let's just listen, actively listen, think about these things. And likewise, I might go into detail where Lynn's like, oh no. And uh and it yeah, but she appreciates people do it. But yeah, we work it through, don't we? Yeah. I think a big, a big part of all of it as well is like where my communication side is coming from, the emotional intelligence side, which is you know, alongside psychometrics and everything, and especially as a a woman in business as well, dare I say it, um, quite often that's seen as the fluffy stuff and the soft side that doesn't really get seen, but it's so important, along with communication and being you know emotionally intelligent, just understanding the way people work is huge, but it goes very very unnoticed, which is I suppose why I find it quite hard to distinguish the role as well because you say that to a lot of people what does that even mean, being emotionally intelligent? But you've got to be, haven't you? But yeah, sorry, interrupted you there. Not at all.

SPEAKER_02 23:34

Emotional

Emotional Intelligence in Leadership

SPEAKER_02 23:35

intelligence is actually quite hard because again, people think they have it and they don't. Yeah, or people do have it and some some don't. Like, how do you know if you've got good emotional intelligence or not?

SPEAKER_00 23:47

I wow, that's a very good question. Maybe I shouldn't have bought the emotional intelligence out. I don't know, I think it's just being open to it and just being aware that you're not going to get it right all the time. That's fine.

SPEAKER_01 23:58

This is self-awareness, though, isn't it? It is self-awareness, it's definitely self-awareness and awareness of others as well, and being able to give others space to be able to um to listen and do all of those things that aren't about IQ. You know, it's a completely different thing. Yeah. So my son's like this, my mid my middle son, he's so emotionally intelligent, it's unbelievable. He doesn't really understand that quite yet. But um I always talk to him about how um I could have a conversation with him and I might be struggling one day, and he will notice, he will notice straight away, and he'll ask me things and then he'll say something to me like that sounds hard. Because he and I just think his skill set is way too old for his age at the moment. But he'll be a great coach or counsellor when he's older because he's so in tune with other people, um, and and himself, he understands himself emotionally like that, he knows how complex these things are, but it's a real self-awareness and being able to listen properly, like really listen. Yeah.

Advice for Women in Business

SPEAKER_02 25:09

So wow, that's actually quite impressive. I think I keep thinking that. Yeah. Yeah. So if you were to give a woman some advice or anyone going into business, what would you give them? What have you learned that you're like, actually, I should give that?

SPEAKER_00 25:24

I think there's a there's a few things, I suppose. The assumptions are dangerous is a big thing for me. That does stump a lot of people, I think. So don't assume anything. And it's okay to ask questions, there's a no stupid question, just ask it. Someone else probably wants to ask it.

SPEAKER_02 25:39

Someone else is probably thinking it time level.

unknown 25:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:43

Um, you don't also need to be the loudest voice in the room either. You you can lead through being in spotlight, but you can lead through supporting really well as well. There's all forms of leadership, too. Um, and I think the big one that's always stay with me is just it's none of your business what other people think of you. Really isn't. Some very wise person told me that. And it's that's one big piece of advice that stayed with me because I always had an issue with oh, but what are they gonna think if I do that? They're thinking this, they're thinking that. And I see my daughter doing this as well. Yeah, and I've said to her so many times, it's none of your business what they think of you. Because it isn't you'll think certain things about other people, and that's fine, that's just human nature, but you don't have to worry about what they're thinking about you. That is so hard though, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 26:31

Really to not worry about what people think. Yeah, like all the time, reminded me.

SPEAKER_00 26:37

Yeah, but but it's pretty powerful.

SPEAKER_02 26:39

Yeah, so yeah, once you can let it go, I guess it's yeah, how's it going? Because I haven't got to that part yet.

SPEAKER_01 26:44

We've all got to learn to dance like nobody's watching, haven't we?

SPEAKER_00 26:48

All those all those things forever, forever. I think it's every situation you find yourself in, like this. Yeah, never done a podcast before. I don't know what people are gonna think, but you know, they think what they think. Yeah, we're just gonna do me. So that's it.

SPEAKER_01 27:02

I think for

Being a Woman in a Male-Dominated Space

SPEAKER_01 27:03

me, because I've always been in a room with men, yeah, and um when I was at the beginning of working, I was I was always with people that were 10-15 years older than me in a space where I felt like I had to really um learn to talk loudly to be able to be heard, but now I don't think it's like that at all. I think um being a woman is no different to being a bloke. I think women should still be able to be women and not be have to soften that too much, but not have to overcompensate too much either. So you don't have to try and be a bloke in a space, and you don't have to be um softening yourself too much. I think you just need to find yourself in that space, and if you do find yourself in that space, then that shines through anyway, and people understand you for who you are, and they either like it or they don't. Yeah. So I think it is about just being comfortable with yourself. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:07

Yeah.

Closing Reflections

SPEAKER_02 28:08

It's a massive thing. Which again is mindset. Yeah. Everyone needs to come have a little chit-chat with you. Well, I really appreciate you both coming on today. It's been fantastic. I love hearing about everything that you've been doing, how you got to where you are, and the journeys that you are both going on. And it just shows that actually like no path is the same.

SPEAKER_01 28:28

No.

SPEAKER_02 28:29

Like both of your journeys, although you're in the same company, is very, very different. With two very different backgrounds to a degree. Yeah. And actually you both bring some values to that to complement each other. So thank you both so much for having us to watch.