From Corporate Structure to Creative Business | Verena on Building with Intention, Systems & Self-Trust

What if building a business didn’t come down to doing more… but to doing the right things, in the right way, with enough time to let them work?

In this episode of the Built By Her Podcast, Georgie sits down with Verena, founder of Fox and Doe, a private lash studio based in Cheltenham, to talk about building a business with intention, clarity, and self-trust.

With a background in finance and project management, Verena’s route into the beauty industry wasn’t the obvious one. But what she’s built is a brilliant example of how creative businesses can thrive when they’re rooted in strong systems, thoughtful positioning, and a really clear understanding of what makes them different.

From launching a bespoke lash studio alongside a corporate career, to navigating the silence that can come at the start of any business, Verena shares a refreshingly honest look at what it takes to grow something slowly, strategically, and in a way that actually aligns with who you are.

This is a real conversation about momentum, perfectionism, visibility, marketing, and learning how to focus on the things that are actually in your control.

In this episode, we talk about:

✨ Building a business alongside a full-time corporate role

✨ Moving from finance and project management into the beauty industry

✨ Why simple systems and clear priorities matter so much

✨ How to stay focused when growth feels slow at the start

✨ Letting go of perfectionism and taking action faster

✨ Why social media doesn’t have to be your whole marketing strategy

✨ Finding ways to market your business that actually suit your strengths

✨ The importance of testing ideas and failing quickly

✨ Giving your business enough time to breathe before judging it too soon

✨ Creating a client experience that feels personal, safe, and genuinely bespoke

✨ The thinking behind Fox and Doe’s facial mapping approach

✨ Why consultation, trust, and lash health sit at the heart of the service

About Verena:

Verena is the founder of Fox and Doe, a private lash studio in Cheltenham offering bespoke, natural lash enhancements with a strong focus on client care, consultation, and thoughtful design.

With a background in finance and project management, she brings a unique blend of structure and creativity to her business — combining high standards, clear systems, and a personalised approach to create an experience that feels both luxurious and considered.

Her work is rooted in the belief that beauty treatments should feel collaborative, calm, and tailored to the individual,  helping clients feel like the best version of themselves without overpowering what’s already there.

Website: foxanddoe.co.uk
Instagram: @foxanddoe.lashes

Follow Built By Her

📸 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/builtby_her
🎟️ Events & Tickets: https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/o/114520957181

Join the community, come to an event, and be part of the conversations beyond the podcast.

🎙️ Hosted by Georgina McDonald founder of G R Design Studio

🌐 Website: https://www.grdesignstudio.co.uk/
📸 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/g_r_designstudio

🎧 Produced by Richard Lannen at Nozzle Media
🌐 https://nozzle.media
📸 https://www.instagram.com/nozzlemedia

If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, leave a review, and share it with someone building something of their own.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Amazing. So for people who don't know who you are, can you introduce yourself and what you do?

SPEAKER_00 0:05

I'm Verena. I'm the founder of Fox and Doe, a private large studio based here in Cheltenham.

SPEAKER_01 0:11

Nice. And how did you get into starting your own business?

SPEAKER_00 0:15

So I entered the beauty industry with a finance and project management background, which is probably not the most obvious route to take. But I always had a very creative and entrepreneurial streak as well. So I love exploring ideas, building things, and seeing how things grow. From a large perspective, I have eyelash extensions since years. I love them. I think it's the treatment that gives you most transformation with probably a quite low amount of time that you're spending. And yeah, basically, it's just like you wake up, you look put together, you look awake, and you can just get on with your day. Exactly. And that's this is what I love about it, and this is how I got into it. Um, what I then did is I saw an opportunity to build my business around that a little bit differently. So while a lot of service providers really operate from a high-volume uh salon perspective, I wanted to create something that feels very personal, bespoke, and is more slow beauty leaning. And then the project manager in me came out and wanted to also explore if there's an opportunity to make the whole treatment more collaborative and also to replicate the results at the same level.

SPEAKER_01 1:39

What do you mean when you say collaborative?

SPEAKER_00 1:41

Uh so basically, I then created a custom facial mapping approach, which means that my clients can now actually envisage the outcome of the treatment before we're even getting started, so they can already kind of have a very good idea of how the result will look like before I'm even getting started. So CGI face.

SPEAKER_01 2:04

Yeah, like a little bit. Yes. That's amazing. And how have you found that transition between going from a very finance project management industry, I guess, like a corporate safety into starting your own business that is very much opposite ends of the spectrum, if I'm correct me if I'm wrong, but that's what it feels like.

SPEAKER_00 2:24

Yes, it is very opposite. But uh so I'm still in my corporate role as well, so I'm doing both at the same time, which can be um a balance, or I'm trying to balance it, but it is obviously very different because you have your corporate structure, right? You have your hierarchies, you know how to how to work through a corporate structure. While at the open market, it's obviously very different to first of all put yourself out there and be very visible in what you're what you're doing, what you're creating, maybe getting judged for it, and then as well moving through this client-facing type of role. But it was a quite good experience, and I'm learning as I go. That's amazing.

SPEAKER_01 3:09

I guess the transition from corporate into your own business is is so vast. I did it myself quite a while ago. Um, but I remember in my corporate job, I knew what my job was, I knew my scope of work, that was my focus. When you start your business or when you've started your business, there are so many other things to consider other than just the job that you're doing or the product you're selling. Yes. How have you found taking on all those hats?

SPEAKER_00 3:38

Um, so this isn't my first business venture. I actually had a business um before that focusing on helping small businesses with web design and branding. So I knew what I was getting myself into. But then when you're actually getting back into it again, it's like, oh, okay, I have to do social media marketing, I have to do my accounting, I have to actually explore my routes to market. I actually have to do the treatment because I'm a service provider. So I have that was the normal goal, right? Uh so it is obviously a challenge, but what I always do is I'm trying to be very intentional with the time I have. So I put a lot of small systems in place and have a few habits that just make it a little bit easier for me to navigate it. And I'm very clear on what I want to achieve from the start and how basically the result, what is good enough, if you like. So I'm very clear about what is good enough for me and what I need to achieve to keep on pushing forward, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 4:42

That's a very impressive mindset. I feel like a lot of people, when they start their own business, they have all these ideas and they know how to do their job, but the processes that you're talking about now and understanding what needs to be achieved to get to your goal is really hard when you're in that moment of excitement and this is new and the adrenaline is going. Yes, exactly. How do you do that? How do you ground yourself so well?

SPEAKER_00 5:05

Um, so I have a few just simple rules. So, for example, I was very clear at the start of my journey. I have a corporate job and I'm growing a business. I knew from the start that my corporate job will have the priority while I'm building my business. So I directly removed this conflict of interest there. And that is number one. And then otherwise, I'm just very clear in what my goals are. I never have more than two or three goals. I work towards two at any one time because I'm trying to basically remove the friction of decision making, because more the more friction or blockers you remove, the easier it actually gets to finish things. And this is how I'm kind of so I have a few things like I have your goals right now. What are my goals right now? So my one goal is to uh grow my client base, of course, because I'm a new business. And the other goal is to basically get known. Uh so basically marketing-based being known. And everything around that I do not look at. I would then start breaking it down. Okay, if I want to have, let's let's come up with a number, um, let's say 10 clients in six months. I would then start working backwards. Okay, what actually tells me, or what do I need to do to get to these 10 clients? So I would want to have, let's say, 20 inquiries, I would want to do social media marketing, etc. And then I'm starting to really simply break it down further. Okay, what of this, what I want to do, is actually in my control. So if we're looking at social media, I can control how often I post, right? I can influence to a certain degree how many people will see it because I could do collaborations, et cetera. So I will focus on these two points. What can I not influence is what my competitors post, what the Instagram algorithm does, all of this type of jazz. I will not even look at it. And this is how I allocate my time around it to directly kind of block out what I cannot do. Um, I as well do a little bit uh of this in my private life. So I'm very, very uh focused on where I actually spend my time or how I spend my time. So it's about system, but also alignment. So I realized quite early. So I okay, I'm not sure if I should say this here, but I'm I really dislike social media marketing. I find it draining. Okay, good. I'm not a lot of flame. Love it. Um, so I find it very draining. And at the start of my business, I focused a lot on oh, I should do social media marketing because everybody tells you, okay, you're in business now, you have to do social media marketing, otherwise, you're a failure, your business is a failure, you will never find any clients, right? So you spend tons of time, or I spend tons of time coming up with content. I'm a self-confessed perfectionist, so I'm spending tons of time, and then I'm posting it, and it's like shouting into a void, and nobody's coming back, and then I'm very frustrated, and I find it very emotionally draining as well if you invest a lot of time and nothing comes back.

SPEAKER_01 8:17

It can really impact your self-seam as well.

SPEAKER_00 8:20

So, what I did is um probably a bit delayed. So, if I would have to redo what I did to build my business, I would do it a bit differently now. So I I then started thinking about okay, I'm spending hours and hours and hours doing something that actually makes me feel really bad about myself because I don't feel successful. So, how can I turn this around and find these potential clients differently? How do I actually like to engage? So I was like, oh, I'm I'm actually quite good in person. I like people. So let's see how where can I find them in person?

SPEAKER_01 8:55

So working to your strengths.

SPEAKER_00 8:57

Yes, basically. So then I thought about okay, where are these people? Where are these lovely women who might be interested in eyelash extensions? And this is how I actually got into the wedding industry, because there are wedding fairs out there quite regularly, where obviously it's a very important event. People want to look their best. So I was like, okay, I will start going to uh wedding fairs because even if uh bridal bookings they're very much in advance, but this is an opportunity for me to actually get known, explaining my approach and doing it in person instead of shouting into this void. And this is what I started doing, then to just grow my business in a different way that aligns to me and gives me energy instead of draining.

SPEAKER_01 9:50

That's amazing. You've taken your strengths, what you like doing, you've taken where your clients you've gone to your clients rather than expecting your clients to come to you, which is really, really like obviously the ultimate goal. And then thirdly, bridal bookings, although they are far in advance, that will help you predict your future revenue. Yes. So you can see where your growth is going to be and you can plan your time backwards, which must be fantastic for someone who loves structuring and finance, exactly. Wow, that is such a good idea. So have you slowed down your social media or do you still keep it as an active part but not as active?

SPEAKER_00 10:30

Yeah, so it's still my store window. And if anybody wanted to find me and follow my journey, that is Instagram. I'm only using one platform because here again I'm intentional with what I prefer as a person. So I do post, but I'm not posting anymore, and then sitting and checking, oh, how many views do I have, etc. Yeah. Um, I also now started doing from time to time um ads, which I normally was completely opposed to because what you're usually being told is you have to grow organically, you have to find all of your uh audience organically, which is basically, in my opinion, impossible to do as a business owner. Because if we're looking at big accounts that are full-time influencers, so they have a full-time job. I already have two basically full-time jobs, so I cannot be an amazing influencer or halfway decent influencer at the same time. So, what I started only recently actually was okay, let's give this a try. I was a little bit judgmental about it. Um, what I do not like uh myself is I I don't sell, I never sell. So basically, I just created an ad with some um brand pictures and said I exist. And the pickup was actually way higher than I expected. So I only went for profile views because basically my whole brand is around I exist. If this is the right treatment for you, you're very welcome to explore. Uh, if we are the right fit, you do not need to rush. I'm expecting you to first follow a bit. Um, but basically, my my website stats went up. I got bookings from it, uh, and it it really picked up. I got for my so obviously with my unsuccessful organic growth, I got uh really quite some significant follower increase as well. So it really helped, which probably then goes to the learning. Do not disregard things either and just test things out. So that's one of my main learnings from the whole journey. Test things, fail, but fail quickly. So there are certain ideas that are worth holding on to and giving them room to breathe, like um with my business, for example. Uh, the as I mentioned, the it's very different to traditional high-street salons. So it's not high volume, it's very intentional, I do not have that much capacity as well. So it's just in a very different place. And when I started, which I completely didn't expect, is because you build your brand, you build your website, you you I build the studio in that sense, and then I open my doors. And there was actually quite a lot of silence at the start, because it doesn't automatically mean if you build something that suddenly people will come through your door and say, Yes, I only waited for this. Uh, finally you're here. Thank you so much, Verena, for finally doing this. And uh basically, what I learned during this period is that you need to give your ideas room to breathe. Because I didn't know if it was going to work. I went at a luxury tier into a very um busy industry, right? So I had to give certain ideas room to breathe, and obviously, at some point doubt creeps in, and you're you can say, Oh, should I go down with my price? I didn't, and I'm glad I didn't, because I just didn't have that time yet to build momentum. So, from this perspective, it's just really important to give certain ideas time to breathe, and with other ones, test if it doesn't work, just recognize it, move on, and just keep the momentum going instead of having everything perfect.

SPEAKER_01 14:23

What time frame do you think is a good time frame? Because what I might think to be long in my head might be a really short period of time for someone else.

SPEAKER_00 14:34

I would say it depends, and that is a very good question, actually. So when it comes to your overall business idea, I think we're giving ourselves way too short time frames because we're all very driven and we're in this excitement, as you mentioned. Yeah. Yeah, here I am, I'm gonna be super successful. And it doesn't generally happen. So you do need to give yourself time. I actually gave myself about a year to one and a half to see if it works. Initially, I gave myself like two months and I'm going to be fully booked because it's super popular, the service is super popular, who wouldn't book? But then I actually went back and said, okay, realistically, Verena, you are new, your network is quite small. Instagram hates you. Sorry, Mark Zuckerberg probably doesn't hate me, but Instagram doesn't show anybody your content. So you actually have to first build and become visible. After that, you actually have to build trust because people see you but they don't know you. And then after that, you still have to wait for the right timing. So one thing I learned is that, for example, for my business, it's very seasonally driven as well, which I didn't necessarily expect. So you do have to give a certain amount of time. So, and I would say a at least a good year, at least minimum, to see if it works. With other things like your own channels, uh, I would say pull through quickly with marketing, try things, fail. Failing is fine, fail fast, and then you move on. Uh, but if it comes to your general idea, give it some time and space. It deserves that because it probably lived in your head for a while before that as well. So you can't expect it to come out into the world and then overperform in a month or so.

SPEAKER_01 16:27

I think there's quite a big stat around that most businesses failed in the first two years. And I can see that from my own experience. But what you were just saying there, a year and a half feels like a lifetime when you're running your first business or a startup business. But in the grand scheme of things, it isn't that long. Exactly. Um, and it's really hard to get out of that mindset and be like, no, no, I'm gonna keep going at this. It's only been a month, it's only been two months, it's only been three months to get to those year points. When you get to a year and you're like, I've done it for a year now, this can't be that hard. Did have you found that as your ticking point through time that you've hit your milestones? And not like it's got easier, I don't think it gets easier, but you have more belief in yourself that it could work because you've got to a year, you've got to a year and a half.

SPEAKER_00 17:14

Yes, I think so. But I also just because it was so quiet at the start, I decided to, it's not a system, but I decided to really recognize what I'm doing because if you work to a long-term goal, so let's say I want to have 10 new clients, let's put it out by a year. Yeah. It can feel massively long that year to get to these clients. But if you actually break it down and you then say, okay, um, I got 10 inquiries. Oh wow, I did this, I've got um this ads running, this and this is the result, etc. And you really take the time to recognize that these are all of the steps that you did and what the results are, it makes it emotionally way more um, yeah, not lucrative, but it makes it more real for yourself emotionally.

SPEAKER_01 18:08

It's taking that time to look back though. Exactly. I I think that's something that is very important by you saying you need to see the steps that you've got to get to that one person out of ten. But then you have to look back and say, I did all that and look where I am now. I think that's very important.

SPEAKER_00 18:24

Yeah, exactly. And with my business, it was a bit different as well. So it's actually looking back, it's quite interesting because I had quite a long gap where it was really quiet. Um, and I didn't have this external validation of actually people booking, which is obviously very frustrating. It can be as well boring, right? Because you're like, hmm, it's it's here now. What's happening? Um, so what actually happened for my business first was that I got industry validation before client bookings, which I didn't fully recognize at the time as well. But I actually had industry professionals reaching out to me and saying, Oh wow, I love what you're doing. I would love to recommend you to my clients, which is obviously huge. I also had um really positive feedback from print media who also recognized that this is a really great concept and that it's a gap, etc.

SPEAKER_01 19:18

Explain to listeners how what that means. So, how did you get industry recognition?

SPEAKER_00 19:24

Yeah, so I had over Instagram, I just had people reaching out to me out of the blue, just a message, hey, I love what you're doing. I'm I would like to recommend you to my clients. And that was before me reaching out before that, and obviously me um going through different marketing routes. I explored print media as well, and I actually got really positive feedback from a bridal magazine who then said, Oh wow, uh, we love it. Uh we think it's a real gap, it doesn't exist like this. We love the facial mapping approach and everything around making it really bespoke, especially for such an important event, etc. Or just really simple things like I applied with Rock My Wedding to be a preferred or recommended supplier, um, where they are basically going through their checks as well, and I was um accepted quite early on. But I think all of these things obviously pointed to okay, the industry is recognizing something will be working, but the external like client booking validation was still lacking at that time. But this gave then, to me as an individual, uh a bit of more motivation to push through and keep on going and really think, okay, even if the other part is lacking or sporadic, there is something that is worth still pursuing and keeping the momentum going.

SPEAKER_01 20:49

But that's building your credibility as well.

SPEAKER_00 20:51

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 20:51

So that is 100% helping, although it might have been lagging at the time. Yeah people will then recognize the achievements or the highlights that you're getting put forward for. And they're, I want that, I want some of that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:04

Did you find that an uplift started to hit in? Exactly. So when at the start, when you're building trust, there are obviously various options to build trust with your audience, your future clients. And if your actual external client validation or bookings are lacking, you need to get this trust somewhere. It's right. So it can be through media recommendations from other professionals, etc. So, in that sense, I just went out and I went really widespread in how I could get all of those little pieces together to then bring it into okay, this will now be a continuous funnel.

SPEAKER_01 21:43

That's great. I like that. When you started your business, you've obviously done it before, so you had some knowledge. You've also worked in a corporate where you've managed projects and stuff like that. Did you find before you started your business you went into planning mode? Like, how did you plan? Before you launched?

SPEAKER_00 22:01

Actually, I didn't plan too long. Because so that might be a surprise, but what I learned is because I always explore new ideas. At some point, it was about cooking, etc. And there I was like, okay, I'm planning everything until the last detail. And I just never got started because you feel busy and like you're contributing to your overall goal. But if you overperfect, you never start. So with both of my businesses, I went in really quickly. Obviously, if you're in a service, I did do the trainings, right? So I am fully trained. I am insured, don't worry, people. All of that. So I really invested as well into uh premium training. I traveled to Germany to train there as well. I worked there for a while as well in a salon. So I really made sure that part is done. Yeah, basically, yes. And then uh I know how to build a website. So I built my website. It didn't take me very long, but then I started getting going right away because I know the business will evolve anyway. So you can perfect and perfect, but what you always recognize with time, your business will evolve, and it might look very different even in a few months' time to what you set out to do at the start. So I knew I was not going to put. So I put a lot of time, but not an exhaustive amount of time in. And I was very clear in okay, how good does it have to look to get me going? So the small steps were more important for me to keep this momentum going instead of doing the overall plan with 10x. Yeah, doing all the bells and whistles.

SPEAKER_01 23:47

Yes. How do you, for someone who's a perfectionist, how do you take that out of what you're doing just to make sure you're getting the results? So you say it doesn't have to be perfect, but you need to get it out, then you need to get the steps, and it doesn't need to be 100%. How do you lower that bar in your mind to be like this is okay, send it out?

SPEAKER_00 24:09

Yeah. You see what I'm saying? Yes, I know what you're saying because I do um discover this challenge regularly. Um I think I just kind of hit a switch in my mind sometimes. So if I see that certain things take longer than they should do, I think I'm quite pragmatic about it. It's the same with emails. So you will never see me drafting an email for longer than 10 minutes or so, then I will give someone a call. Because I can't, if I can't put it down in 10 minutes, then it's easier for me to get give someone a call and just explain what I want. And it's a little bit the same with social media and all of the other bits around it. So obviously, if I have a treatment, it takes that time, and I won't say, oh no, that's fine enough, because with treatments, I am a perfectionist and I'm taking that time. It's important. But when it comes to marketing, admin things, and all this type of things, I'm really having an eye on the time that I'm using, and at some point I'm saying, no, that's that's enough now. And I'm thinking about how can I do it better for the future? Then then I my brain will go into okay, this took ages now. How can I make this quicker for the future?

SPEAKER_01 25:29

So do you sit down and then think of a process to do that?

SPEAKER_00 25:32

Yeah, I do it automatically.

SPEAKER_01 25:33

Wow. So kind of if if my if my emails are taking me more than 10 minutes, I didn't want to call the person, what would you advise me to do?

SPEAKER_00 25:42

If I would say use AI. I don't no, seriously. Seriously, I know people are very um cautious about AI, and I I agree. But when it comes to things, obviously, if there's nothing sensitive in this email, etc., throw it in AI. It's totally fine. It's okay. Read through it. It doesn't give you, don't expect AI to give you the perfect result. So you will still need to read it and adjust it, but especially with things like sounding boards, first ideas, it saves you tons of time. And with these little things, if you know your perfectionist with emails, just put down some bullet points, put it in AI, see what comes out, and then you refine that instead of sitting there for an hour looking for the perfect words to put out there. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:32

I was told um a while ago now, actually, that when it comes to using AI, you can split tasks into shallow tasks and deep tasks. Yeah. So your shallow task would be your email writing, your follow-up meeting notes, things that shouldn't take you that much time, but also won't impact if you don't spend loads of time on it. Um, so yeah, your emails, your admin, all those, all those micro things that if you didn't have AI would actually take you a really long time. And your deep work is your phone calls, your client calls, your your treatments, um things that in the future will get you work back, will build relationships and help you build your business. And I ever since I was told that it was quite a while ago now, it really resonated because, like you said, there's a lot of stigma around using AI, but you're not using it to be lazy, you're using it to be efficient to give a better service of the product that you're actually providing. And I think that needs to be separated. I think people need to realise that and go, okay, yeah, she may have used AI to send out the following following meeting notes or something like that, but it doesn't detract from the meeting that we've had that was an hour long. We've connected, we've understood what the outcome was going to be. Exactly. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:47

Yeah, I fully agree. So I think the use of AI will advance as well. And I think at some point we will not have any other option than using it anyway. So I would rather be on the front foot with it and explore now, especially since there are a lot of time savings in there, and then focus the real time on the things that give me energy and that grow my business. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:12

Amazing. I like that a lot. So do you think that become a point where you'll switch fully? Or do you like doing both?

SPEAKER_00 28:19

I do like doing both, so I'm not fully uh decided yet. I think what I would like to first see is uh seeing my business grow and where it takes me because I do as a project manager and planner in general, I do have a long-term plan for it as well. Uh, but first I would like to really focus on um providing a really uh great client experience, really bespoke, refining this as well to set my business further apart. And then after that, when the point comes, then I will decide. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 28:55

So for those people here listening, who might know the answer, and I don't fully know the answer. What when you talk about facial mapping, yeah, what does that mean?

SPEAKER_00 29:03

So what I'm doing is basically it's uh it's a manual process because I didn't use AI for uh because of uh client privacy. Uh so I would take a picture of my client and then I'm really mapping out the face. So I'm looking at bone structure, eye shape, facial shape, uh symmetry, and then I can actually design on my iPad. So I can basically put the design on the picture of my client, draw it on, um, which then enhances. So I specialize in natural large enhancements. You won't see me doing any mega volume styles, etc. And then I would create something that enhances and not overpowers, but you can also see it on your own picture.

SPEAKER_01 29:49

Amazing. So depending on their bone structure, their face, how does that impact the lashes?

SPEAKER_00 29:56

You're going into large questions. I'm curious. Yeah, so it depends. Uh so I can give you a really quick example. So a lot of clients who are coming to me are saying they would like to have a cat eye, which is obviously with this little whiff on the ends. This is not necessarily the best style for every client because depending on your eye shape, what it will actually do is it will droop and make you look older. So, and by actually being able to take that picture, map it out, really look at how the eyes are set, how much lid space do you have, how is your brow bone, do you have hooded eyes or not? I can then really design for that and directly show my client as well on the picture what style suits them. So I can I can basically overlay a cat eye style and say, Do you see your face? And then a more natural still with a little flick, but more natural, do you see how it lifts and make you makes you look more awake? So it's really helpful for me from a consultation perspective as well.

SPEAKER_01 31:02

Do you find that clients come in with a perception of what they want and you have to guide them into actually that looks lovely, but it doesn't work for your face? Or do they just trust you when they come in?

SPEAKER_00 31:14

Um I I'm just thinking about it actually. I think it's a mix, but more leaning to trusting me because I did a lot of work on my socials explaining it and on my website as well. So I never fully go into detail on my process because it's my process and I love it. It's mine. Uh, but I'm uh educating to a certain degree and I'm very clear on how I'm working. So most of my clients actually come in because they want to see me because I'm doing natural style lashes, and it's usually more professionals and um clients who have events, etc., where it matters instead of clients who just want to have a lot of lashes. So I think I've I managed to kind of set me apart so that clients who are considering me know that I'm not the girl for a lot of lashes, but the girl for a very natural look that will enhance. And how long do they last? They last uh depending on your large cycle. Would you like to learn everything about the large rose cycle? Oh my god. Um, the audience will be asleep in the next two minutes. No. But so generally, lashes last about three weeks. That doesn't mean that after three weeks they're all gone. But how it works is every natural large is extended with one or more synthetic lashes. Yeah. Your lashes do have a growth cycle, like the hair on our head. So they will grow over three, four weeks and then they will fall out, and a new large will grow. So that means if I am uh basically extending all of your lashes, they all don't grow to the same cycle, of course, and some will fall out, some will stay a bit longer, and then after three weeks, roughly, you will have to make a decision if you would want to have an infill. So basically, if you would want me to put to make it look even again, or if you wanted them removed, or if you just want to let them fade naturally.

SPEAKER_01 33:20

Is it better to get them infilled or removed and redone?

SPEAKER_00 33:24

Um, so generally you can work with infills and you can basically continue. I would say if you have uh if you want to a complete change in style, it's easier to remove and redo. But generally, you can also gradually change the style you're working on and uh just do it through infills. So you do not need to have them completely removed and redone. No, I wouldn't say so.

SPEAKER_01 33:49

That's amazing. So you can have them forever, but you just keep going and going. Yes. And they don't impact your lash health or anything like that.

SPEAKER_00 33:56

If done right, they don't, no.

SPEAKER_01 33:58

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 33:58

So if they're not done right, they can. Uh but this is why so my business, I'm very uh focused on hygiene large health. I want to generally have the best results for my clients. This is why all of my sets basically first start with a consultation and a patch test to make sure it's safe. As part of this consultation, obviously, we do the facial mapping as well. Um, I will have a look at your natural lashes because um every large is different, and uh it depends really on okay, uh, how strong are your larges, how long are your larges. So I will never overextend larges. I will never make the extensions longer than a third of your natural large, because what happens otherwise is you overload. Okay. Exactly, and then you might actually impact the follicle. And this is where large damage happens, and it's the same if you put too much weight on a large. So if it comes to large, I could go on ages and ages now, but basically there are different curls, different weights of synthetic lashes you can apply. So you do, if you do have a therapist or practitioner or large artist, uh, it's really important that they first look at your natural larges and that they don't just overfill because that is what will then create potentially damage. So this is why the consultation is so important for me, and I'm not willing to really compromise on that. So um it is an additional step, but it's to make sure my clients are safe and that they are getting the best results.

SPEAKER_01 35:35

Well, it just proves that your whole business model is around putting the client first and their experience, and it isn't about just doing lashes, it's how they feel, and they're not going to feel good if they haven't got the right lashes or if they haven't had the right experience and consultation. And um, it's probably quite different if you've gone from no lashes to putting lashes on. Yes. Um, so I can imagine the first time you're like, wow, I look so different, but in like a nice way. Yes. Um, but you want to be in the hands of someone you can trust. I don't know, um, I don't know if it's a big example, but you know when you go to the hairdressers and you go, Oh yeah, I just cut it off to my shoulder. And they do it, then you like walk out like, what happened? Yeah, crying. You don't want that feeling when you go and get your lashes done. So it's about protecting that, yes.

SPEAKER_00 36:23

And it is a big um transformation as well. This is why usually I recommend to clients who have their first set, I do actually a soft set, which is supernatural. So if someone wants to get started, just because I know that sometimes it can be overwhelming, because even though you would probably not feel that I have a lot of lashes on, if you look into that mirror the first time, it can feel very overwhelming. So I actually started for new clients to also recommend my soft sets, which are very natural and then build up gradually, unless they're feeling comfortable to directly go for a full set in that sense. So I'm I'm trying to kind of manage as well for my clients how this transformation will feel by showing pictures, obviously, they're seeing it on their face. But I would lie if I were to say that I never had a client who actually looked and said, Oh wow, that's a lot, even though probably to the external viewer it wouldn't be a lot.

SPEAKER_01 37:27

Yeah. I anything to do with your face or your hair. When you see it in the first time, you're like, whoa, what happened? Um, yes. But like the fact that you can go through that process with them, guide them with the first initial consultation, the viewing of what it would look like. Yeah. And then even doing a slow process if you've got someone who's a little bit more apprehensive. I think that's really important. It's about a journey from start to finish. Um, and you've guided that as well in what you've done. Was that one of the fundamental sort of elements of your business?

SPEAKER_00 37:58

So the consultation and client experience and journey is at the heart of my business. So I really wanted to create something where the client feels very safe. Uh, they have the opportunity to work with me and not just they're coming in, lie down, a few hours later, they will look exactly. Uh, so that is really, really important for me. And obviously, client safety and the whole hygiene side of it as well. So just making sure it's a really safe environment for my clients where they can actually relax because it is a time uh a part of self-care as well. So clients come to me because literally they can snooze for two hours and just sleep. So I do have clients who just sleep through the full appointment, which is also great. Yeah, yeah. And it is lovely. So um, yes, so for me, that is one of the things that is really important, just that it's right for my clients.

SPEAKER_01 38:55

Wow. Amazing. Um, just to wrap it up, because I've really enjoyed learning about your business and then actually what your business does. I think the just the way you've got to where you've got to, and it's impressive that you're running both alongside each other. Um, for someone who is looking to go into your industry, so go into lashes, what would you recommend to them if they don't know where to start right now? If they is so particularly to lashes, okay.

SPEAKER_00 39:21

Uh, I would say start with a really good training because there is a lot of difference out there in terms of trainings. Um, do an in-person training. Do a training where you're working on actual people and not on just a model hat. Uh, because it is really important. Make sure you source the right materials and don't cut corners in terms of what you're actually putting on your client's face. Uh, that is probably the most important point. Then when it comes to setting up your business, um there are various routes. So I know various very successful large artists who work only off Instagram and it works for them. Uh, then there are high street salons who are working on volume, but I think it's really important if you want to be successful to really understand your own positioning and what sets you apart. I mean, it's always this buzzword of oh, what is your unique sales proposition? Why would people choose you? But I think it's very important that it's just clear for you what you want to achieve as a large artist. What are you bringing for your clients? And then when you actually come into planning, focus on what's important, don't get bogged down in making things perfect, don't um focus only on the making it look pretty things. Practice, practice, practice because practice makes perfect. It is a craft, so people don't expect it because they think, oh what you're just doing a few. It is actually a craft. There's technique behind it, it's difficult to learn. So practice and then build gradually. Don't put yourself under pressure, just build gradually, get the word out there, and don't overperfect things because, as we said, your business will grow with you.

SPEAKER_01 41:11

I think you just answered my second question: was what advice would you give someone going into business? And I think that is probably it. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 41:18

Don't try to overperfect and stay focused on the things you're doing. Fail uh with certain ideas, fail quickly, and try to align what you're doing as much as you can to your own energy to make it easy for yourself to finish stuff and not like I did at the start, just try to make things work because you have to. That would be my general advice. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:41

Amazing. Thank you so much for your time today. Thank you. Just a quick one. If people who want to come and find you, where do they find you? If you just drop me on Instagram and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_00 41:50

Yeah, so I am working in a private atelier. I'm not high street based, so I work by appointment only. If you wanted to follow me along on my journey, uh you would find me on Instagram. If you wanted to, you could reach out over my website, send me an email, and you can also find me at one of the next Built by Her speaker events. Yeah. Where we'll speak all about little tips and tricks to get things finished.

SPEAKER_01 42:19

Yeah, amazing. Thank you so, so much.