The Woman Behind The Win

14. How Ignoring Her Inner Nudge Led to a Life Changing Wake up Call with Debbi Sluys

Robina Abramson-Walling Episode 14

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Sometimes the signs show up long before the breaking point. The challenge is whether we're willing to listen.

In this episode, Robina is joined by Debbi Sluys, founder of Dare to Declare, who shares her journey from leading a large childcare organization to building a business aligned with her purpose. For years, Debbi felt an inner nudge that she was meant for something more, but fear, responsibility, and the security of a steady career kept her from taking the leap.

Everything changed when her body delivered a wake up call she could no longer ignore. Debbi opens up about the physical signs, the questions that challenged her perspective, and the pivotal moments that helped her trust herself enough to choose a different path. This conversation explores the connection between intuition, nervous system awareness, and the courage it takes to create a life that feels aligned from the inside out.

In this episode, they share:

• How to recognize the inner nudges we often dismiss or explain away
• The physical signs that can appear when we are living out of alignment
• Why high achievers often stay in situations long after they know something needs to change
• The powerful question that helped Debbi make a life changing decision
• What becomes possible when you trust yourself and follow your deeper calling

Connect with Debbi:

• Website: debbisluys.com
• Instagram: @debbisluys

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Connect with Robina:

• Website: https://routeofhealing.com
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/routeofhealing/
• Personalized Hormone Balance Reset Quiz: https://quiz.tryinteract.com/#/698b478d8ecf7e3441a4c914

SPEAKER_01

Hey guys, I have an amazing guest. Some of them you might have seen in the community, because I've seen you around in a couple of places, Debbie. But Debbie Sleuse is a Christian, a mama for, a wife, and a grandma. She is the founder of Dare to Declare, a coach, a trainer, an author, and a speaker who specializes in helping people expand their brain's potential to see what's possible for their future with Vision Boards. As a former childcare director, Debbie has studied personal development for over 30 years and has facilitated and witnessed science at work by guiding thousands of clients to identify and declare their vision, both online and in-person workshops and through retreats. Her mission and life purpose is to support individuals to declare their truth and create the life of their dreams. Debbie hosts the Dare to Declare podcast, where giant manifestors come and share how they've turned their visions and their goals into reality. She lives in Ontario, Canada. Guys, please help me welcome Debbie. Hi, Debbie. So great to have you. Thank you. I'm excited to be here. I'm excited for you to share a little bit of your story. And I love the fact that you're using your workshops and your retreats to really help people get to that next step. But I really want people to understand what the backstory was there in order to get you to where you are today.

SPEAKER_00

I started in an unlikely place because a lot of entrepreneurs that I meet are like serial entrepreneurs. They've known that they wanted to start their own business since they were little. But for me, my journey is a bit different in that I started in a not-for-profit. So in my bio, you heard that I was a director of a multi-site, not-for-profit childcare organization. I couldn't figure out what I wanted to do in high school. This is when, you know, you went to college at age like 17 or 18, and my counselor was like, well, maybe, you know, do you like children? And I was like, yes, actually, I love working with children. And so I took early child education and quickly discovered that I do love the idea of leadership. And so I was in Ancaster, Hamilton, Ontario, before I got married. It was for the professors' children and the students, like mature students, their children. So it was like an on-site childcare. So that was really interesting to work with families coming right out of college. I basically had leadership opportunities operating the childcare there. And then when I got married, I moved to Chatham, Ontario. I started in the school age program, which is like a summer camp program with kids. And within two months, the supervisor left. And so I was the youngest and newest employee. There were 12 employees at that time. And no one wanted the job. So I applied for it and got it. I really grew up, matured into my knowledge of leadership. And by the time I left five years ago, almost six years ago, we had a team of 75 employees and about 450 children at four locations. And we're one of the best in the province. We got to pilot this new way of being with children, which is very common now, which is play-based learning, but it really wasn't a thing even like 18 years ago.

SPEAKER_01

Well, that's really interesting. So you come right out of the gate from high school, and all of a sudden you're like this young woman that's thrown into this situation. And funny enough, you're the one that's like, hey, I'll take the leadership situation here. I'll take the lead here. What did it feel like for you to be thrown into a role like that at such a young age?

SPEAKER_00

Age and being young gives you a sense of being naive. I didn't really know what I had signed up for. I just knew that I wanted to advance. I've always challenged myself to do better, to be better, to grow, be bigger. Because, like I said, I'd started at that university campus right out of college. I had a little bit of leadership opportunity there. So this just felt really exciting. So for me, it was mostly excitement. The stress and all the challenges didn't really come till later when I realized the responsibility. So that's what I mean. I was naive around with leadership comes responsibility. Over the years, as more and more responsibility was downloaded from the government, some of it, yes, necessary in terms of safety for children and the ways of being with children, but some of it also just felt very much guided by litigation. And to answer your question, I was a bit naive, I suppose, and didn't really understand what I was raising my hand for at the time.

SPEAKER_01

Well, I think it really is a testament to who you started out as as a woman. And I know the kind of work that you do very briefly, but you said that you felt excitement, and that's what made you take that leap. The feeling sort of drove you to that position. I want to fast forward a little bit. What made you leave? You said you've been there for so long and then you've now been doing your own thing for five years. Tell me what happened.

SPEAKER_00

It was gradual in that I was feeling like I was meant for something bigger. It wasn't until I started speaking on stages and asking audiences and asking my clients, have you ever felt that way? Like people raising their hand and going, Oh, yeah, exactly that. Like the little inner nudge that said, you are meant for something bigger. And I was like, Oh, I thought that was just like downloaded from the Holy Spirit, just for me. I didn't know that that was a thing. And so that inner nudge of growth really started to plant seeds and I started to look for opportunity. So I started to apply for other jobs, even within my own profession. Because once you are a director of a not-for-profit, the only way up would be probably more into government type of position. Those required licensing, being like an inspector. And that didn't really light me up because I'm a creative. I don't tell the story very often, but I actually applied for a job. So I asked the lady out for lunch when I went through two rounds of the interviews and didn't get the job. And so I said, Could I take it for lunch? I just would love some feedback. And she said, sure. And she said, Well, you know what, Deb? Actually, you're too visionary. And again, I don't know what that says about the organization, but she was being very truthful to me. She's like, This job would have killed you. Like you are a visionary, you're a creative. And she's absolutely right. At the time I was pouting, but then it started to sit with me. You're too visionary. You're too visionary. I am visionary. Wow, what does that actually mean? And so I started to search online for visionary. What came up was actually the work of Jack Canfield. He uh co-wrote Chicken Soup for the Soul series. Most people know him for that, but he was in the movie The Secret. And then he wrote the book, The Success Principles. And that's where I discovered vision boarding. It was like this idea of vision and vision boarding. So up to nine years ago, I'd never created a vision board before. I knew from my own just instinct and intuition that putting images up, just having them on my laptop, on my backdrop, would make me feel better. I knew that, you know, if I wanted something, I could just have a poster of it, even as a child, but I didn't really understand this connection with vision boarding.

SPEAKER_01

You know, you talked about the inner nudge and you knew that you were sort of made for more, but you didn't really understand what that was. Tell me what that felt like for you in your body, but not only in your body, but like, you know, some people they feel like they're out of alignment, so it shows up in a way. Was there any indication physically that it was showing up?

SPEAKER_00

Yes. Actually, I'm writing a book. It's called Declare It, How to Turn Your Personal Power Back On. It's going to be released in May of 2026. Congratulations. Thank you. And I talk about this in three ways that I feel like the universe, if you want to say that, but that you get these signs and they start off as soft as a whisper. So it's like this whisper comes by. You are meant for something bigger. And it feels pleasant and it feels interesting and it might just kind of pass by like a whisper. But then you get a nudge, like, hey, you're meant for something bigger here, girl. Like, are you paying attention? And then comes the pain, which is, I call it the two by four to the head. And I know that sounds very graphic, but that's how I felt like it was just like whack. You're not paying attention. And because of that, we're gonna have to actually bring you to your knees so that you understand. So for me, that was actually in the form of a mini stroke. I ended up having a physical little spot now that's permanent on my brain where I was in a meeting. I used to organize these meetings for a social committee. I talked to our board and part of our budget was for the social committee so that the staff themselves could plan their own social events. I was really more the banker there just to make sure that the money was being spent in the way that it was allocated. They were all talking and then they said to me, Well, Deb, what are you gonna bring? And do you know how potlucks people tend to have their favorite thing? Like they're known for that salad or that. Well, my room was meatballs. I always brought the meatballs because I could take them to the crock pot to the sensor. Super easy. Yeah, exactly. I could not get the word meatballs out of my mouth. And I was like, huh, that's really weird. I want to say it. It's up here. I'm thinking, but it's not actually coming out. And so I had a back-to-back meeting that morning. So I just stayed quiet. I went into my next meeting with my three supervisors, or in actually one of the supervisors' office, which is like the size of a closet, and we're all just kind of knee to knee, eye to eye. And all of a sudden their eyes get really big and they're staring at me, and they're like, Dad, your face. And I slurred, I said, What? And I had lost half my thing, my eye, my mouth, and I lost control of my tongue. It lasted for minutes. It felt like a lot longer, but it was only minutes. But even that was I'm fine. I'm fine. I didn't go to the doctors after that. I was just so grinding. Yeah, we're an autopilot. Yes, 100%. And just pushing, pushing, pushing. That was a really big physical wake-up call. And then my grandson was born a month later, and I was laying in the hospital bed with my daughter right after the baby had been born and everybody had left, and Judy was beside us. And she goes, Mom, why don't you leave your job? Because I had already started my company, the Dare to Declared Company. I was like, I can't. I have a $60,000 a year paycheck that I'm counting on. To be a full-time entrepreneur just felt so incredibly scary. So that seed was planted, and then the next was I was at a woman's conference in Windsor, Ontario. And this woman said, What's the price you're paying for not following your dream? Such a good one. But the next one is what did it for me. And maybe this is something that will speak to you, the listener. When it became bigger than me, because she asked this question, what's the price those around you are paying for you not following your dream? That cemented it for me, where I made the decision right there and then that the price was too high. My health, in terms of it being very stressful, where I was, and my desires. So because we only move for two reasons pain or pleasure. So we're paying the two by four to say knocking you to your knees, beer girl. And then the pleasure is what if, what if, what if you could double, triple your revenue, not have a ceiling and have freedom of time for your family, the little grandson that was just born. What if? And so that vision, that dream pulled me into helping me make that decision.

SPEAKER_01

A lot of women, especially as entrepreneurs, we're in this cycle and we don't know how to break it. You literally talked about that in that situation. Like I have a 60,000 income and it's really hard for me to move away from it. But what did it take for you? I know that you said what was the cost that everyone else is paying, but what did it really take for you to make that leap of faith? Because man, that is so scary for people.

SPEAKER_00

It really is. So I should back up. So you had asked me to start my company. And it was start my company, that was more, I'll admit, it was an expensive hobby for two years. But I also was refining my craft. I was refining my framework to have vision boards that actually work. My husband and I built a beautiful studio, but I was still doing both. I was still working full-time as a child care director and doing my company. There wasn't the sacrifice required to step full-time into entrepreneur. That's why I told you the other story where, okay, yeah, am I all in or am I all in? That decision was made in faith. It had to be that my desire and my belief was greater than my fear. The next part of the story is I gave my notice to my board of directors in January. That was January 2020. I didn't know what was going to happen. Another piece of this story is that I had chosen that year a power word, a word for my year. And I'd also hired a coach because even though I was doing my vision boarding, I wasn't getting regular coaching. And I knew that I was going to set full-time, I needed to hire a coach because I didn't know what funnels were, niche, like all these bingo. I didn't know what that all meant. And so I hired a coach, and then the pandemic hit. So I had given my board six months' notice to leave. So on top of me doing my regular job, working with fearful employees, like wondering, are we gonna have a job? Like what's going on? Like the health unit was changing the regulations every other week. Are we emergency care? Are we not? And I'm trying to clean up 30 years of, I have three offices. I'm trying to organize things, leave it for my successor, hire my successor, all the things. And so I'd chosen my word as generous that year. Every time the health unit would change the regulations, or a parent was upset that we were closed, or employees wanted to know who their new boss was going to be, I would take a deep breath and I would say, I am generous. And I would show up as the best version of her in that energy. And so I got fully present with whoever was standing in front of me. My coach at the time, she said, Deb, your final project with me is to do an online workshop. Here we are, streaming like nobody's business. I had not really used Zoom before, not really. I was like, I don't think Vision Board is going to translate online because my studio was closed. Like I wasn't doing in-person workshop. I'm like, how am I gonna ever now replace my revenue? That little workshop that I did was called a power word workshop because I was like, this is the one thing that I know is working for me right now. I had 65 people register. I created 10 paying clients from that. And this is the height of COVID, but it's continued. So it's a staple within my offerings. I did exit with Grace in July. The other thing that's incredible too was during that pandemic, my husband got an offer for his company. He ended up selling his company. That was incredible as well, that he was able to retire. He's now working with me, which is incredible. And it forced me, like talk about painful, to go online. I probably would not have gone online. I probably would not have pivoted because I was doing fine in my comfortable studio in Chatham. And going online created this whole now global aspect to my company that it hadn't been before.

SPEAKER_01

Wow. You talk about the bridge of incidents, eh? Like literally something was meant to happen for everything else to unfold. And it's always often very scary, especially as entrepreneurs, when we have to make these decisions that we're kind of blindsided by. I love that you really took a leap of faith, not only after that happened with your body, but as well as you realize there was a misalignment happening within your soul. I want you to talk a little bit about now that you've created this lucrative business that is like so amazing and global, how you're actually helping other people get in touch with what they're noticing and what it's costing them to not pay attention to what their purpose is.

SPEAKER_00

I feel so blessed that the very offer that I have, which is vision boards, is hope-filled. I mean, who doesn't need more hope right now? Like the world needs hope. Everybody likes. That's correct. The way that I offer a vision board, though, is unique in the couple of things. One is tied into science, into neuroscience. And the other, it's very intentional. Some people that are critics about vision boards will say, Oh, it's just about stuffed up. I'm not materialistic. I don't need more things. Well, good, because this is actually not about having, it's about being. So most people think of a vision board in these three words and then lined up in this way. What I want to have, the stuff I want to have, the big house, the fancy car, the handsome guy or whatever it is. Well, then what do I need to do to hustle to get that stuff? And then someday I'll be happy. And that's mostly how society is formulated, like our vacation time and everything is usually kind of like that, right? Like we'll wait for the weekend, we'll wait for our vacation, and then I'll be happy. I'll wait for retirement. But what I do with Dare to Declare is we flip it. It's like, who do you get to be? So I actually encourage people to put an image of themselves on the board in a happy time, centered to the board. And everything else, the other images are all a representation of that self-image, of that elevated version of you. So who's that best version of you? That's what all those images. And then the doing are the goals. I differentiate between vision and goals. The vision requires divine intervention. You have to know the how. It's bigger than you. The goals then are the steps towards the manifestation. It's the joy of the journey. And then the have, we get to leave that up to the divine.

SPEAKER_01

So what I really like is that it's more about embodiment with you versus the steps. The steps are a part of it, but that's the how, which we're not supposed to be fixated with. We don't know how God, universe, whoever you want to refer to, is going to make it happen, but it's holding that vision. And so you talk a little bit about that and teaching people that how do you help people work with the feeling?

SPEAKER_00

The feeling is everything in terms of vibration. So most people have heard of law of attraction. That's like in the movie The Secret. It's actually the proper name is law of vibration. You probably have it when you, you know, walk in a room and if somebody's been arguing, you feel like people that don't even believe in this will say, ooh, it's bad energy in here. Yeah. It's a low vibration. By concentrating and focusing on your board, on your vision and visualizing, you actually raise the vibration within your brain. And science shows that you actually create new neural pathways within your brain. So it's like what fires together, wires together. So when you have a thought and you have a feeling, it actually creates new neural pathways. So by having persistent, consistent focus on your vision board, visualizing as though it already is, that this is the new standard. This is what happens often with my clients, and it's happened with me too, that I'm manifesting my vision and I don't even realize it because it's been my norm. Like I've been calling it, I've been declaring it, I've been saying it is for so long already that when it actually is in material form, I'm like, well, of course.

SPEAKER_01

A lot of people don't recognize that they're doing this, even if they're not doing the vision boards or the manifesting, right? Like their reality is a representation of all the thoughts, feelings that they've had in the past. So on this podcast, we talk a lot about burnout or people experiencing that disconnection, but they're still going through the motion. We are perpetuating the same reality, is basically what we're trying to say here. And so doing something like vision boarding, Debbie's method, is really about helping you change the reality of what you're going to experience. And if you show up in that image of yourself now, even if it hasn't shown up in your reality, it's bound to happen if you stay in that energy. How do you teach people to stay in that energy? I know you talked about looking at the vision board frequently, but how do you get them to stay in that energy?

SPEAKER_00

It's not the one thing. I have focused on the one thing with the vision board. I think it's a really great foundation. When I work with clients one-to-one, I always start with the vision board. But it's about listening to podcasts like this, following Rabina, like making sure that you stay in the company of others who are also in that vibration. You've probably seen this meme before, this example where it's easy to pull people down. Yes. It's harder to pull somebody up. So you need to be intentional and find people that are up, who are positive, who are seeking to be better, seeking to serve others, who are in a state of love, gratitude. Those are higher vibration frequencies. So when we can find the lesson. Now, I do want to just put a caveat here though. You know, I was talking to a woman a couple of weeks ago. She is going through a horrendous situation where after 46 years, her husband walked out. She had no idea. She's left destitute. She's in a little apartment, she said, with a single window. And she was so sad. We were doing the mini vision board, and she's like, I know my words should be joy, but I just can't. Yeah. And so I also want to say check in. You don't need to know the how. But I also don't make it so distant that you become disconnected. From it. There needs to be some connection in terms of feeling. And so I said to her, you know, what I hear from you is that you are so brave. And she's like, Yeah, I am being very brave. And I said, So if you could adopt this idea of being brave every day, like how would that feel? And she right away lit up. That was her higher vibration. Now will she get to joy? I believe she will, but it's going to take some time. It's going to be some work.

SPEAKER_01

And I love that you said that. I was a coach with Bob Proctor. So I understand a lot of this energy and this understanding. But one of the things that I feel like there's such a disconnect with people is that the brain, okay, so not the mind, the brain knows that they want to have the income, they want to have the person, they want to have the relationship, they want to have the job, but there's that subconscious disconnection. It's like incremental feelings. How do you get into that feeling of bravery? How do you step into that and use that success to catapult you to the next feeling and to the next feeling? I just finished saying to somebody else, I believe that the more change someone needs, the smaller the changes have to be, but to create that consistency and that feeling. So tell me a little bit about even with this woman, you talk a little bit about the bravery and she'll eventually get to the joy. But do you offer like mini sessions with people to kind of work on, okay, we're here now. This is where we want to be. Do you work on a basis like that with people? For sure.

SPEAKER_00

I have one-on-one clients and I work with where they're at. She's not my client, but if she was, we would start to talk about. Well, the big picture is courage, risk, confidence. Acts of courage, taking a risk. And either side of that is confidence. And the more confident you become, it cycles back again to take another courageous act. Those come with what you're talking about persistent, which are habits. I remember that episode with friends, and it was George, and he's like, I'm gonna do everything opposite. Oh, I always say that.

SPEAKER_01

I literally tell my clients, you George Costanza yourself. We need to do the opposite of what you normally do. That's I love you.

SPEAKER_00

Because it's so interrupt. He's like, Hi, I'm balding, overweight, I live with my parents. She's like, hey, right? It's like but it's true. Like, so we get to do that. We get to be George Costanza. We get to disrupt, you know, if you drink coffee every morning at a certain time, maybe you want to just start with some tea. Start to just infuse small things that disrupt your patterns and see what's possible on the other side of that. That's not courageous, but I would say to her, like, especially, there's probably a lot of firsts. Let's let's just use her as an example. What does this look like now to go and have self-care? And maybe she doesn't have a lot of money right now. It might be simply to purchase a new face wash or something for herself. Or for her to say, so now you're meal planning for one. Right. What do you like to eat? This is a big piece too. When I work with women in particular, the first part of the vision work process is what do you want? So many women think they don't know. They do know. I'm very intentional with my words. They do know, but they'll say, I don't know. And I say, Well, what does your spouse want? And they can tell me. What do your kids want? They can tell me. What is your employer? But I'll say, what do you want? They've never given themselves the time to focus on. I call the vision board the new spa day. It's an opportunity to just focus in on you. That's where it's really important. So that would be what I would encourage her to do as a courageous act is to start to get clear on what does she want, take a risk to implement one of those things, and on the other side of that, see how that feels. And I would support her with that.

SPEAKER_01

I love this idea because I'm thinking of like the dysregulated CEO that's out there and how, you know, they're in this job and they're in the grind. And it's really hard for them to press pause. You bring in the fact that this is neuroscience based and what it can do for you. Because a lot of people think these types of things are a little woo-woo, right? And so I really love the fact that there is something that is going to change neurologically with you. That's going to change the way you show up in the world, the way that you change in the way that you present yourself. And so one of the things that I really love is teaching women how to do these types of exercises are a self-care. It's going to give them back that sense of safety, that sense of I've created something for myself. Share a little bit with me about how you help CEOs use this tool to build businesses or a life that is in alignment with them, especially when they feel disconnected.

SPEAKER_00

I work with a lot of leaders and haven't been a leader myself. And like I said, a large team working with various levels of government and so forth. I like this example where I had a glass door in my office. It was facing into the foyer. So I could see people coming and going. You might have this where you have a certain client or a certain customer. Well, with me, you have that one family where it doesn't matter what you do, it feels like you could never get it right. There's always a complaint. So I would see this parent coming towards my door. And what would happen? My cheeks would flush, my neck would get red, my body would begin to respond in a stress-prone way, even though the parent hadn't said a single thing. Like our mind is so powerful over the feeling within our body that yes, we can become stressed even though we haven't even experienced anything yet, or you just see a name, or you see something that right away causes you that kind of anxiety. The opposite is true as well. So I started to use this mantra that instead of what's the worst thing that can happen, I would ask myself, what's the best thing that can happen? And I started to call it in because what you focus on, you get more of. That's not woo-woo. This is science. If you're in a networking situation and you see a group of people that are obviously gossiping, they're kind of and it's like their laughter is not friendly. It's not you see that, and then you see a group where they're heartily laughing. They flat each other in the back. Who are you going to be attracted to? So we get to be that as well. When we are taking care of our mind, of the way that we're showing up, we're going to be attracting those opportunities to us as well. It's really key to begin with ourselves.

SPEAKER_01

I love the idea of the feeling, like things can trigger us so easily, thoughts and how the thoughts are tied to our emotions. And so it's really important, even if you feel disconnected from your work, there is an opportunity to connect as well. Like I always say to my clients, if you feel this, you can also choose this on the other side. It's the way that we're patterned to think all the time. And so I love that you're really helping people go to the other side of possibility and teaching their body to follow a different way based on having a new belief system and a new vision. So tell me how people can get in touch with you, Debbie, to work with you.

SPEAKER_00

The easiest is my website. Everything's all there, my social media. I'm on Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn. And so it's Debbie, which is my first name, just with an I. So D-E-B-B-I, sluice-s-l-y-s.com. There's a connect with me at the bottom there. Check that out. So how has your health been since you took this shift? I do have high blood pressure and I gained some weight. I think menopause and also being stationary, where I used to be zipping around with the kids and with COVID. So I am releasing weight, which has been really great to do that as well. But much, much better. I have so much joy. The test is I was at a woman's show. I was at a vendor booth. And again, I'm not picking on these ladies, but I have this offer. It's for free. Like you can do a free power word. Here's a kit. And I have some women like, no, no, no. Or just being mistrusting. And that's where they're at. But I'm not used to that. I'm used to being with people like you at a higher vibrational level. Yeah. And so what I realize is that now I get to surround myself with incredible, ambitious, positive, impact-seeking people, men and women. And I just feel very blessed.

SPEAKER_01

One thing I learned is that I have to be a request. And even like what I do, I recognize that not everybody is for me and that's okay. And one of my mantras is that what is for me will never pass me. And so I truly believe that. Once you start to really connect with women that are on the same frequency as you, it's amazing what types of opportunities and partnerships and things that come out of that. So I think that that's so great. Thank you so much for being a light in this world and really helping women recognize their power. And also there are things that we can do to really tap into it and change how our success shows up in our life, not only for our health, but also for all the people around us. And again, just being that beacon of hope for so many women and being able to say, listen, I was here and I'm here now. And if I can do it, you can do it too. So we're just so grateful to have you, Debbie. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00

Thank you. Thank you for letting me share my message. I would love to chat with your audience and just appreciate what you're doing here on this podcast.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, thank you. All right, guys. You know how to get a hold of Debbie. And if you're interested in working with her, please reach out to her. I know that she will help you reach all of those goals and make that vision happen.