Episode 3 - Ian's Recovery & The Road Ahead

This episode gets personal. Ian opens up about what it actually means to be in recovery — the obsessive mind, the compulsive nature, and why those things never fully go away. He talks about how the outdoors became a healthy outlet for the same brain wiring that once drove his addiction: the need to control, the need to feel something, the constant obsession redirected toward scouting, prepping, and chasing seasons. Coming up on 17 years clean, Ian explains how routine saved him, how hunting gave him checkpoints to look forward to when times got hard, and how the guys he met early in recovery introduced him to the woods in the first place. Bobby and Ian also look ahead — Turkey season content dropping in March, plans to hunt Vermont, trout fishing goals, and the hope of tagging three birds this spring.

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Transcript

Speaker 2 0:03

Welcome to Out on the Limb with the Limb Junkies, recovery, resilience, and the outdoors. We believe in the natural world as a therapy like no other, and we're here to prove it. Whether you're tethered in a hunting saddle, pitching lures into deep cover or set up on a roosted gobbler, you're in the right place. This is a space for anyone who's found healing in the woods, forging fishing, hunting, and all of those wild things in between. We're building something here and we want you with us, so let's gear up and get into it.

Speaker 9 0:37

So Ian, tell me a little bit about what it means to be in recovery and how the outdoors helps you with that.

Speaker 10 0:44

So I think first what we need to do is kind of define addiction. And addiction in its truest form is obsessive and compulsive. So an obsession being, you know, an idea or thought that continually preoccupies someone's mind. And then the compulsion side of it is an irresistible urge or behavior in a certain way, especially against one's,, conscious wishes. So the obsession piece, and in the idea of drug addiction in it is constantly consuming your mind that you need to change the way you feel. And that could be. You're feeling good. You wanna feel better, you're feeling bad. You don't wanna feel bad anymore. Like it, it's this constant need to change how you feel. You're, it one's feeling is never good enough. So you have to, you feel like you have to change the way you feel or make yourself feel differently. Yeah. And then the compulsion my compulsion to use was without any sort of thought of consequence. And it was extremely destructive. So when it comes to the outdoors, I think we all understand what obsession is when it comes to hunting. Um. You know, you have that same sort of obsession when it comes to the outdoors. You know, at certain times of the year, your mind kind of fixates on, man, I really want to be tossing a lure into a stream, or, you know, it, it's fall. I really, really need to be up in a tree stand or in the spring I really, really need to be sitting with my back against a tree. Like it. It is an obsessive nature that it has to find an outlet like. Even in my recovery, I'm no longer using drugs, but I still have an obsessive mind. I still have a compulsive mind. So one of the things about recovery is we try to take that stuff and find it a better place to live, you know, a better avenue and so the obsession for the outdoors was perfect. You know, it's, a healthy obsession. You know what, what better place to have your mind be consumed by than the natural world. So, when it comes to the outdoors, I obsess, I obsess about not only the chase, but all of the prep that goes into it. And I obsess about the seasons and when they're gonna be here. And I obsess about plans as far as, what my next place is gonna be, that I'm gonna hunt, or what my next property will be that I try to acquire, or that obsession doesn't leave. Um, no matter how much work you do in recovery, the obsession is there. You just have to find a good place for it to be. Like I said, the outdoors has served that for me. The compulsion can be very bad when it comes to the outdoors, at certain times. In my recovery, in my hunting career, if you wanna call it that, I have compulsively hunted when it probably endangered, you know, my marriage or my job. And, and I think most people that are listening now probably have skipped outta work a time or two saying that, oh, I'm sick. I can't get out of the toilet. But, really we planned to go sit in a tree stand. There was definitely times in my, my first marriage that I made up false, truths in order to spend more time sitting in a tree stand. So, the compulsive nature is something that I have to constantly work on, curbing, because the. Compulsion, I don't think is, it's, it's hard to find a healthy balance of compulsion. You know what I mean? I think it's just not, it's not really a healthy thing, but I think the obsessive nature can, can be redirected. You know? I think that if you were to sit down and talk with a lot of successful businessmen or, or people who, you know, inventors, people who create things, I think that you would find that obsession is in within their character. Hmm.

Speaker 9 4:52

Yeah, I, you know, I wonder, you, you touched on a lot of things that, it makes me wonder in your need to strike a balance, you know, you've obviously found a credible outlet for your obsession. But it sounds to me like you still. We'll always have to grapple with the compulsive nature, and the obsessive nature. And no matter where you were to redirect that, I think that you would seek to perfect it and become obsessed with it. So sometimes it sounds it's a double-edged sword for you. Oh, it's, it sounds like, because you can actually redirect that, that power of addiction in a completely different direction and sometimes it can override and interrupt the process of you hunting and things like that.

Speaker 10 5:34

Oh yeah, it can, you can take something like hunting that we both enjoy immensely and we both find a lot of therapy in it. And if I'm not actively working on keeping myself in check, keeping my demons at bay and making sure that, my defects of character aren't running rapid, then hunting becomes a daunting task. The obsession becomes way too much. I focus too much on, a false sense of success instead of enjoying just being out there. And like I mentioned before, the compulsive nature of it, of becoming so obsessed that I start to compulsively do things that damage other areas of my life.

Speaker 9 6:16

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 10 6:16

But the main point being is that recovery there, there's certain things about addiction that you, you can't just get rid of. And this is what I've found in my own experience. I'm sure there's a lot of people in recovery that would agree to this statement, but a lot of parts about addiction don't go away. You know, you learn how to cope with some of your character defects, and you learn how to kind of redirect things in a more positive manner. But there's certain things that just don't go away and those things that don't go away, you have to find healthier avenues for them. Something that's been big for me in my recovery, and I try to instill this in, in a lot of guys that, turn to me from my experience is find a hobby.

Speaker 9 7:03

Hmm.

Speaker 10 7:03

Find something that you can dive into that consumes your time. The worst thing for an addict is idle time. Absolute worst thing. In the beginning, especially, sitting around doing nothing, your brain starts to play tricks on you. A lot of people in recovery say that, no matter how good you got it, or how much work you've done on yourself, your addiction's in the corner, doing pushups, waiting for you to make a mistake. And as corny of an analogy as that is, it's true. You know, because addiction lives in the brain and our brain is constantly trying to have us do destructive things. You know, it, it's a very core disease that, that a lot of people who don't understand it don't understand it. You know, there's no other way to put it., That's why in recovery it's so vital to, to link up with fellow recovering addicts who've been through it and can help you because it's, it's hard for a non-ad to understand how an addict brain works. So the outdoors has become a perfect outlet for me,, and on many different ways. Obviously, it's time consuming. Any outdoorsman understands that. I mean, we have seasons, but the brain obsesses about that season long before it's here. We're, right now, it's the 15th of February and we're thinking Turkey, and we still got two months before opening day. My, almost my whole entire day is filled up thinking about Turkey season right now. But another big key thing about addiction is, this need or this want to control everything around you. And what I mean by that is like physically, mentally, emotionally, like I have a desire to control things. This person's not acting the way they should. I want to control how this person acts. I want to control how this situation is gonna end up. I want to control how this goes, how that goes. It is part of the obsession of I want to be in control of everything in my life, including the people in it. If you would just do what you're supposed to do, everything would go smoothly. The thing about the outdoors is you can't control it. It is like the, the best lesson. And you can't control everything around you.

Speaker 9 9:22

It's like trying to crack some cipher, some code. Yeah. That you just can't crack you. The closer you get, the further away you are.

Speaker 10 9:28

Yep. And you can sit and listen to podcasts and watch videos about, you know, Turkey hunters and the most experienced Turkey hunters in the world. And they'll all tell you, You never have it all figured out, especially with Turkey hunting. And the same with deer hunting, same with fishing. You know, it doesn't matter. I can't tell you how many times I've walked into the woods thinking, oh my God, the conditions are perfect. Today's gonna be the day. You know? And it goes completely opposite 'cause you don't have any control. It's the wild world and, and we cannot control it. But there is aspects. Of the outdoors of hunting that you can control, and that little bit of control feeds that demon inside of me in a healthy way. I can control how I prepare for the hunt. I can control. That I get there early enough that I get situated in the stand early enough that I make sure that I'm in the woods before first gobble, that I make sure that I have the right tackle to fish what I'm trying to fish for. Like there's so many aspects of the outdoors that. It I can control. So it, it feeds that little demon inside of me that wants, wants to control everything.

Speaker 9 10:39

Well, because you're giving you feedback too. I mean you, it's giving up just enough control to make you think that it's possible to control.

Speaker 10 10:44

Yes, exactly. It's that delusion aspect,

Speaker 9 10:47

exactly's, exactly. Right. So what I'm curious about is, you know, when it comes to recovery programs, where in a recovery program do they create the bridge for that behavior? And adopting a hobby, like in your case, what part of a program, if you're going through it, if you've just started recovery, if you're in, been in recovery for a while, where in the program do you get to the point where you're looking for outlets for the obsession?

Speaker 10 11:11

Well, I think it's mostly in the beginning. And I think at any point in your recovery, you could find yourself needing to fill time, needing to fill voids. I'd say mostly in the beginning, and it's not necessarily written into the program for lack of better terms, but, a big thing in the program in the beginning is to link up with other fellow recovering addicts. And by doing so, you're spending time with them and that's filling your time. You know, there's a lot of, comradery, fellowship type things that go on in these recovery programs that introduces you to people and introduces you to hobbies. And they have events and such like that that get you out of your comfort zone into trying different things. And those things end up filling your time. I just know like in my early recovery, I was surrounded by a bunch of guys who. We're big into the outdoors. And so that was what we did. We bonded, we fellowshiped over the outdoors.

Ian 12:10

So, one of the things that I know you had mentioned you'd really want to capture, um, on a podcast,, is why I am the way I am, why I am so. Intuitive, why I'm so analytical, why I am so precise, why everything has to be a certain way. Why, why everything is such a routine down to the minute detail. And, it comes from a place of my struggles with addiction. Routine has made me a functional human being. The way I lived for many years was very dysfunctional and very self-destructive. And very irresponsible. And through the years of recovery and learning a whole lot routine and habit have kept me sane. And so in the hunting world. All this precise attention to detail and preparedness and planning every little aspect and data acquisition and analytics and all the things that go on in my screwed up brain when I'm dealing with hunting

Bobby 13:14

big dumb brain,

Ian 13:16

they're all newfound, healthier survival tactics that I developed in my own recovery. And it's essential for me. I need that kind of stuff. I need strict regimen, I need disciplined routine to get through my days and not fall back into my old ways of thinking. So I've applied that to my hunting. I rarely go into the woods unprepared. And what I mean by that is before I even pack up the truck to go. I'm thinking about what scenarios could happen, making sure I'm prepared with the right equipment for that, even if it's I got your phone number. If I need help, dragon, I know who to call. I'm going in the woods, not even know if I'm gonna see a single deer, but I'm prepared if I do And who I'm calling first to help me drag, but. We've talked before and you've asked me like, what makes you tick? Why, why are you so precise with your movements, with your planning

Bobby 14:16

Obsessed. It's

Ian 14:17

like, well, I am obsessed.

Bobby 14:19

it's why, it's obviously a healthy obsession, but it's, it's like, it can be a

Ian 14:24

healthy obsession.

Bobby 14:25

obsession. It can

Ian 14:26

also be an unhealthy obsession.

Bobby 14:28

So for, for the sake of our listeners, let's, let me just ask, how long have you been clean now?

Ian 14:33

So I'll be coming up on 17 years.

Bobby 14:35

17 years clean.

Ian 14:37

Yep. Um,

Bobby 14:39

That's pretty fantastic. Congratulations. 17 years is a long time. Yeah,

Ian 14:43

it, uh, it's a far cry from where I am today. I can tell you that much. And you didn't know me back then. My wife, didn't know me back then. The vast majority of the people in my life today didn't know me back then. And I'm gonna be honest. Most of them wouldn't have wanted to know me back Um,

Bobby 15:02

I don't know, man. I don't know how that's possible. 'cause even though you, you may have been a junkie back then, you're still a pretty good dude and you're still a pretty good dude now. But, you know, watching you and some of those really elevated moments when we're like pinned up against a tree and you have this strutter that just comes bounding. To the decoy and you know, I look over at you and I could see your body's trembling, like

Ian 15:27

Oh, uncontrollably

Bobby 15:28

like shaking uncontrollably. Yep. And if anybody was able to witness, and I think Chad even mentioned it once or twice, it was like, why? Why does he shake so much? And I said, you have no idea what kind of energy and adrenaline is going through him right now. Yep.

Ian 15:42

Yep.

Bobby 15:42

I was like that he is trembling. I was like, it's sort of like a glimpse into the personality behind the person and it really kind of brings the big picture. And it also kind of demonstrates how disciplined you are in your recovery. Is pretty cool to watch.

Ian 16:01

Well, first off, if you're not shaking you, you're probably not hunting. I think most guys will, will admit that, they're in a stand and a deer walks by, they start shaking, and

Bobby 16:12

If you ain't shaking, you ain't doing it right. I tell you,

Ian 16:14

if you're sitting against a tree in the spring and a gobbler gobbles within 50 yards of you, if you're not shaking, I don't know if you deserve to be out Let's be honest, that adrenaline, that shake that absolute just raw excitement. It's like getting high

Bobby 16:33

That's the thing for me is watching you. Like watching the physical manifestation of that high, that adrenaline is really incredible to see. Sometimes, you know, it's, it worries me a few times 'cause sometimes I think you're either you're freezing your nuts off or you're about to, you're having a seizure or you're gonna pass out. Sometimes I am

Ian 16:53

my nuts off.

Bobby 16:54

It's 'cause you're so skinny

Ian 16:55

Yeah. But um, but no, I mean, and here's another kicker too is before I got clean. I was not a hunter, I wasn't a fisherman, I wasn't any of that like the outdoors. Don't get me wrong. Growing up as a kid, I spent a lot of time in the woods, you know, catching crayfish in the creek and lizards and frogs and turtles and building forts and all that. Like I spent my childhood playing around in the woods. But that's is what But the hunting and fishing aspect was not there. Before I got clean and I was really fortunate enough to meet some really good guys when I first got clean and they were into the outdoors and they introduced me and without it, I don't know that I'd be here today. I'm gonna be honest,

Bobby 17:41

So these are your sponsors, right? These

Ian 17:42

sponsors. So yeah, one of my old sponsors and then Keith, if it wasn't for them introducing me to the outdoors because, addiction, drug addiction specifically is. Completely immersive. My days of using were completely consumed by getting and using, my day was consumed by either using or figuring out how I was gonna use.

Bobby 18:05

And if I remember right, you were working like every day, like you held a job and all that

Ian 18:10

I, I managed to hold a job, don't get me wrong. I was living in my parents' basement, like I was not a responsible adult whatsoever, but. I managed to keep a job so that at Friday night I had enough money to use, but hunting in the outdoors gave me something to sink my claws into. It was something that, and we've talked about this when we did our little get together with the guys from the recovery house a couple years ago. Yeah. And we, we showed 'em how to shoot bows and how to fish. And I explained to them that. the outdoors has seasons and in recovery, sometimes it can be real tough just to get through the day, let alone see the future, a couple weeks down the road or a couple months down the road, or a year down the road. But the outdoors. It gives you something to look forward to. Right now we're kind of in our lull,, I'm not a duck hunter

Bobby 19:00

between seasons. Yeah. He's not a duck

Ian 19:03

hunter. I'm not a duck hunter.

Bobby 19:04

duck hunter. He will be a duck hunter someday,

Ian 19:06

I'm afraid to become a duck hunter. But we have time, so right now is kind of a lull, but we're a short three months away from spring gobbler. Yes, we are. I have something to look forward to. Even if times are real tough right now, which they're not, I'm blessed beyond anything I could ask for if it was a tough time. I know in a couple months I'm gonna be doing something. I love sitting in the woods during the spring and watching the woods come alive. Once I get through that spring, it's gonna be summer. I personally hate the summer. It's hot, it's muggy.

Bobby 19:40

He's pale and

Ian 19:41

I'm a redhead and I burn easy

Bobby 19:43

burns real easily.

Ian 19:45

But even in the summer, we find ourselves fishing when we can. We used to float down the Shenandoah fishing for small mouth all the time.

Bobby 19:52

Yeah, we need to do that more

Ian 19:53

Life gets busy and it's harder to do now, but there's always the next season coming up to look forward to, again, in recovery. I, I need something to look forward to. Times can be tough and for an addict. It's, it's really hard to stay stagnant and get through tough times. You want to change the way you feel at any given moment. Hunting has given me that thing to look forward to that check mark or checkpoint, I should say. My next checkpoint right now is April 11th when Spring Gobbler opens,

Bobby 20:31

So it's the next high, basically. Essentially. But, and, and a

Ian 20:35

a little bit more of a healthy aspect.

Bobby 20:37

sure. A hundred percent for sure. So it's really part of your recovery programming to look forward to the time where you can get back outside and reengage. Yes, not

Ian 20:48

so much of escape from a reality, it's not that, oh man, I can't wait until April when I can neglect my responsibilities and my family and, want to take off work as much as I can. 'cause let's be honest, all those things happened. But it's something to look forward to. It's something to, it's something I love. It's something that keeps my gears running. Yeah, I absolutely love the outdoors.

Bobby 21:11

You're a hell of a lot easier to get along with during

Ian 21:13

I just

Bobby 21:14

in the summertime too. I

Ian 21:15

just love it.

Bobby 21:16

Yeah,

Ian 21:17

I mean, the morning of my wedding I went hunting. My wife is incredibly awesome and, uh,

Bobby 21:23

you are, you are incredibly blessed to have such a patient, tolerant,

Ian 21:28

The morning of my wedding I went Turkey hunting, we didn't really have any luck, but it was still great to be out there. But yeah,, it's a checkpoint. It's the next checkpoint in the year, we just started a new year, it's new seasons to come, new things to experience, new ways to, to plan, to try to get, try to get closer to a mature deer next fall. It's preparations for spring that's coming, seems like it's coming slow, but it's coming. What

Bobby 21:53

you, what are you most looking forward to?

Ian 21:56

Honestly, I'm most looking forward to march. The reason I say that is, I had a lot of luck last Turkey season at the end of Virginia's Turkey season. And so I have four videos that have not been dropped yet on our YouTube channel. So this

Bobby 22:13

last year's content from the end of the

Ian 22:15

last spring. Yep. I was unable to tag a bird in Virginia last spring, but I was a part of some great hunts. Me and Bob. Went on a nice hunt the weekend after my wedding.

Bobby 22:27

Yeah. Thanks Walt. Thank you Walt.

Ian 22:29

Thank you Walt. He shot an absolute awesome bird and that was an absolute awesome hunt. I don't know that you can draw up a better hunt than we had that morning. It was

Bobby 22:39

No, no.

Ian 22:40

Chad and his son came down opening weekend of our season last year. I called in a bird for his son right up there in the Shenandoah Mountains. Perfect backdrop. Absolutely awesome. Morning. Can't ask for a better experience. Um, the rest of our season was really tough. Yeah, but I had some good hunts. But regardless when our season ended, I went up to Vermont, spent about four or five days up there, was able to have a lot of success. And then I went to Pennsylvania. First time going to Pennsylvania, went up there with the Wagner boys and we went out for two days and hunted hard. Mike joined us on the last day and literally last day, last hour. I was able to tag a bird. So we have four videos to drop and I'm gonna, I'm gonna drop 'em starting in March, one week, leading up to our season. So I'm excited for that. Obviously I'm excited for the opener of our season in April, but I think right now that's what I'm looking forward to. Most

Bobby 23:38

good. I'm looking forward to the similar, I would definitely want to go up to Vermont,, with you to see Chad and I would wanna focus myself a little bit on trout fishing. It's been a long time since I've done any meaningful trout fishing. I got myself one of those 10 car rods. Which is the Japanese style of fly fishing. Um, it's something that I've missed doing for a while because I've been so focused on hunting. So I wanna get back on those small streams and do a little fly fishing up there. A little spin fishing too. Definitely want to Turkey hunt. I got some goals for this year here. I would like to try to tag three birds. It's probably the only time I'm gonna try to really, to focus

Ian 24:15

get you one in Vermont.

Bobby 24:17

All three birds,

Ian 24:18

A long beon,

Bobby 24:18

But, um, yeah, 'cause the only thing I've shot in Vermont, if you check our YouTube channel, you see one of our first Turkey hunting videos is me shooting a double. I am shot two Jakes, at the same time. So, and then I just basically tagged myself out and had to follow Ian around for the rest of the trip. Yeah.

Speaker 14 24:34

All right. That's gonna do it for this one. Folks. If you enjoyed the episode, make sure you're following us on Instagram, YouTube and Facebook. That's where we drop all the latest news updates and behind the scenes stuff between episodes, new episodes are coming your way. So hit that subscribe button wherever you're listening so you don't miss a thing. And hey, if you're a Turkey hunter, get excited. We've got some fresh Turkey hunt content headed your race starting in March Spring's right around the corner, and we cannot wait to get after it with you. Until next time. Get out on a limb.