Ep 7: Mentoring new hunters with Mike Rexrode.

Ian sits down with longtime friend and Mossy Oak Pro Staff turkey hunter Mike Rexrode to talk about one of the most important parts of hunting culture: passing it on. They dig into Mike's approach to introducing kids and new hunters to the turkey woods — from choosing the right gun and managing expectations, to teaching patience, ethics, and respect for the bird. Mike shares stories from hunting with his own kids, the value of letting new hunters experience failure, and why going home empty-handed can be the best thing that happens to a first-timer. Plus, the two swap some of their most memorable hunts together and reflect on what turkey hunting has given them beyond the harvest.

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Transcript

0:02

Welcome to Out on the Limb with the Limb Junkies, recovery, resilience, and the outdoors. We believe in the natural world as a therapy like no other, and we're here to prove it. Whether you're tethered in a hunting saddle, pitching lures into deep cover or set up on a roosted gobbler, you're in the right place. This is a space for anyone who's found healing in the woods, forging fishing, hunting, and all of those wild things in between. We're building something here and we want you with us, so let's gear up and get into it.

Ian 0:34

All right So today, I asked my buddy Mike Rex Road to sit down with us and talk specifically about mentoring new hunters and taking kids out. Everybody has a youth season that starts before the regular season, and that's what we got coming up. So I figured no better person to talk to about that than Mike. So me and Mike have been friends for probably about 10 years now. We met through my shop, actually, I'm a mechanic, and Mike was a customer and I remember him pulling up, frequently and we started to talk and become friendly. And I noticed he had Turkey track stickers on the back of his truck. And at the time I was not a Turkey hunter, you know, I was a big deer hunter. But I remember being like, Hey Mike. There's a lot of turkeys where I deer hunt. would really like to get into it. And of course, Mike, me and Mike's like, yep, let's go. Tell me where Mike is, a Turkey hunter's, Turkey hunter. he is Mossy Oak Pro staff. He does a lot of different seminars with Mossy Oak, where they sit and talk with people and try to introduce them to hunting or talk about things in the industry. I felt like he was perfect for this. Mike is to blame for me being a Turkey hunting addict. Um,

Mike 1:44

bad.

Ian 1:45

I think

Mike 1:45

it's

Ian 1:45

good. But something that I'm really grateful for. The more that I immerse myself in the Turkey hunting culture, the more I recognize how grateful I am that. You got me into this and you are a Turkey hunter. You're not some guy that hunts turkeys. You're not a Turkey killer. You're a Turkey hunter. I've learned that there's a difference not only from what I consume through media, but the more that I get into it, and the more that I appreciate the bird as a species, the more I appreciate the hunt and the chase and how to ethically do it and morally do it in a way that brings respect to what we're doing. for that, I'm very grateful for you for that. to it like

Mike 2:27

you have. it's been awesome. We've had a lot of good hunts together.

Ian 2:29

Oh my God. We could talk forever about the hunts that we've had. Yeah. Because we've had a lot of good

Mike 2:34

times. Yeah, we have.

Ian 2:35

I wanted to introduce you guys to Mike. He's been hunting turkeys for a long, long time.

Mike 2:39

so.

Ian 2:40

Let's start just by, you know, how'd you get into

Mike 2:43

I started probably when I was about 12 and used to go to the Harrisburg Sportsman Show. there was a bunch of guys up there that just started calling and I just took an interest to it. I love to deer hunt with my dad and being from Pennsylvania, the seasons are so short that, I never really got a chance to do a lot of deer hunting. he would take me one or two days, but there was something about the Turkey hunting that I just took to, it was the calling aspect I just got started with the mouth calls. I got to go one time probably when I was 13 and it was during the spring gobbler season and it was crazy where we were, the, the birds were just gobbling like crazy. There seemed to be birds everywhere. It was probably back in like 1978.

Ian 3:29

And this is Pennsylvania, right?

Mike 3:32

Yep. And none of my, my uncles or my dad really spring gobbler hunted. So it was something new for them too. it was just because I wanted to go.

Ian 3:41

Now were they all like fall hunters, fall Turkey hunters? Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

Mike 3:45

they shot at a bunch of birds in the fall. But, I wanted to hear 'em cobble. Yeah. I don't even, I don't even know why I just did. Yeah. Like I've. I've been fall Turkey hunting and it was fun, but I just wanted to hear him gobble. Went off to to college, kinda stopped a little bit, really fell off from Turkey hunting. got a job and Turkey hunting just went, went downhill.

Ian 4:06

So all the boring life responsibilities took away Turkey

Mike 4:09

for you? Yeah, for sure, for sure. I was probably late twenties, probably close to 30. And, One of my good buddies, Carl Roo, he's a really good Turkey owner, and, he competes, or he or he did compete in, calling contests at the national level. So I got some places to hunt here in Virginia. they were pretty good places. Started learning stuff on my own and then things really turned when, I took him for, one of the hunts and he's like, you know, do you care if I call? I was like, no, I mean, go ahead. He started calling. It was a completely different world, you know, I was old school, sit back, couple clocks, couple

Ian 4:51

Very

Mike 4:51

Yeah. Conservative. Yeah. Just let the birds work their way to you. Yeah, and Carl wasn't that way. He was very aggressive. So it opened up my eyes to a whole new world, and, after that things just took off and, and then I was looking for every place I could possibly find a Turkey hunt. by that time it was probably 2000 early two thousands. And, Turkey hunting in Pennsylvania at that time was, was tough. There was a lot of hunters. It had exploded in the 25 years that I'd taken a break from there, and it, it was rough. I like to go back to hunt in Pennsylvania with my dad and, and my brother. So, I had to find a place in, in Virginia and the public land down here was brutal also. Yeah. So I just started trying to hit more and more private land and, once I did that, you know, there was more turkeys and

Ian 5:41

yeah.

Mike 5:42

It was so much more, so much more exciting. Yeah. You know, you weren't bump bumping into other people. Yeah.

Ian 5:47

I don't know like the exact numbers. I just remember recently reading something and it's like per capita or per whatever, per amount of land. Like Pennsylvania has more registered hunters than almost any other

Mike 6:00

state. Yeah. Pennsylvania's brutal and I think all of them Turkey hunt. Yeah. It's rough.

Ian 6:05

Well, that's something else too that I've learned, like I think Turkey hunting, as we know it was kind of bred in the south, but Pennsylvania is right

Mike 6:13

there. Yeah.

Ian 6:13

far as the culture, the Turkey hunting culture in Pennsylvania is huge.

Mike 6:18

There's so many places to hunt in Pennsylvania and everybody's brought up to hunt. We used to get the first day of deer season off from school and everybody would go. So, once Turkey hunting started taking off up there, it was no different. and now to hunt up in Pennsylvania, if you kill one up there, you've you've done something. Yeah. Yeah.

Ian 6:38

Was your experience like when you were a teenager, you mentioned you had a mentor that kind of taught you the ropes, but was it still very hush hush? Like Turkey hunters did not share information, they didn't talk much about it?

Mike 6:50

Until I met Carl. And then Carl was more, I was hunting with him in the woods and he, he just showed me so much more.

Ian 6:57

Yeah, Carl seems like a Turkeys

Mike 6:59

Turkey

Ian 7:00

hunter

Mike 7:00

too, you know. Yeah. That guy is a. He's, he

Ian 7:03

he makes excellent wing bones. I've got a couple wing bones from him.

Mike 7:06

Yeah, I do too. yeah, his wing, they're great. Yeah. And, he practices like nobody I know. So not only does he get into the woods to, to hunt them, but he's constantly practicing year round. So he, well

Ian 7:22

that's something I learned from you too, is that. if you want to be proficient at calling, you have to practice. Yeah. Like, there's no short cutting it at all.

Mike 7:30

So when you hit the field and, and you actually need to call, when a gobbler is out there gobbling, you realize just how hard it it can be. Yeah. 'cause your heart is going a hundred miles an hour, you feel like it's gonna explode and it, it's really hard to put, the number of clocks or, purrs or yelps together that you're confident that you're talking to him and not, Not making him, think twice about coming to you. Yeah. So it's, it's a lot harder.

Ian 8:00

Oh, 100%. And I know, like for me, I'll ride around in the truck with a mouth call and I'll be like, all right, I sound pretty good. And you get out in the woods, you make that first call and you're like, oh my

Mike 8:09

God, it's dying chicken.

Ian 8:11

because you're in the moment and you feel so much pressure in that moment, but,

Mike 8:14

Yeah. Or if you are using a pot call and you slip, you're like, oh my gosh. Yeah.

Ian 8:18

I think there's a difference between talking like a Turkey and sounding

Mike 8:21

like a Turkey. Yeah, for sure.

Ian 8:23

Like the cadence and how you call in certain situations, like all that stuff's important. And like I said, that's, that's something that you've always kind of instilled in me is like you have to practice. You know, there's only so much you can show somebody when it comes to calling. And it doesn't matter if it's a mouth call, a pot call a scratch box, A box call. Like you just have to practice. Yeah. And, and. Both you and Bill have always told me, like, listen to real turkeys, Yep. Yeah, he's always Listen to real turkeys. Yeah. You know, it's great to watch like the Grand Nationals and see somebody get up there and you're like, holy crap, these guys are great. But listen to real turkeys and try to mimic that

Mike 9:02

when you hear their vocabulary. It's incredible. Yeah. You know, we usually hit, a clock of Per and a Yelp and, and that's pretty much it, but there's so much

Ian 9:09

They're constantly talking. So, to kind of dive into the meat and potatoes of this, you, you brought me on my first Turkey hunt, and before we get into like mentoring new hunters, I want to talk to you about introducing kids into the outdoors. So. I have two kids. They've shown some interest in it, but not an, like a huge interest in it. I'm hoping that one day they'll find that desire to, and I think more exposure they get just taking 'em in the woods that they might get to that point. But I know you have a couple kids and you've introduced your kids into the outdoors. So is there a certain age that you feel like is a good age to introduce kids? Is it

Mike 9:50

depending

Ian 9:50

the kids temperament? 'Cause I've heard guys talk about, oh, I was taking my kids in the woods when they were two, three years old. and do you feel like

Mike 9:58

when you decide

Ian 10:00

take them in the woods, does it matter, does it make a difference? Do you feel like it's more impactful if you wait till they're older or when they're younger?

Mike 10:07

So I think each kid is, different. So you just have to take each situation, differently depending on the kid. my son was. full bore into Turkey hunting. He just wanted to go. my daughter, she was not as much into Turkey hunting. so with him, I got him going, probably around nine, maybe 10. I think he was nine. and he was a little bit of a bigger kid. So, when we practiced with his 20 gauge, I just used the lowest brass I could possibly get. I didn't want him to be scared of the gun. That was the biggest thing. And I didn't wanna necessarily kill a Turkey the very first time he went out. 'cause then there's an expectation that Yeah, you know, every time you go out, you're gonna kill a Turkey. I want to pretty much just the opposite. If he heard one and we got a chance to work them, that's, I was good with that. And then we didn't stay out for hours and hours. We stayed out, you know, maybe an hour, hour and a half tops. And then we, we'd come back. Even if he'd say, well, you know, I'm okay with staying a little bit longer. I was like, no, you know, we're, we're just gonna call it a day. Because I feel like then you're setting the hook for them to say, I want a Turkey hunt again. So I would bring him back home and he might be disappointed, but that's what I wanted. You know, I wanted him to be

Ian 11:20

Learn how to fail.

Mike 11:21

Yeah. so with my daughter, I probably didn't start with her until she was 10. And same thing, low brass. Shoot as little as possible, only because I don't want her to, to remember the kick as long as she could put the gun where it needed to be. Trigger pulls a, a big thing with me, just a nice smooth trigger pull. Don't rush it. and I always pounded into them. It's okay. if we don't get a Turkey, but I don't want you taking a shot. A crazy

Ian 11:50

shot.

Mike 11:50

I'll never forget, my son was probably maybe 13 or 14, and we just happened to have, three gobblers come in and they were so close to each other, 20 gauge. And you know, back then we just didn't have TSS Yeah. Some of the, some of the, she were good, but they probably came in the high thirties, very close to 40 yards, and they were very close to each other and I would not let him shoot. He was so mad at me. Oh, I bet. But yeah, and they were so close and they were in the wide open, so I'm sure he could have killed one, but you might want another one. Exactly. So I wouldn't let him shoot.

Ian 12:28

And again, you're teaching him the right

Mike 12:29

one. Yeah, yeah. So, talk about, you know, getting him hooked on Turkey hunting.

Ian 12:34

that was it,

Mike 12:34

Oh my gosh.

Ian 12:36

So to touch a little bit on the gun, so. Like four tens have become a huge thing now and especially with TSS. I mean, four 10 is a grown man's gun now, but I'm sure they were available back then. But was there some sort of conscious decision like, I wanna start to mount a 20 because they'll be able to grow more with it, or was that just what you had

Mike 12:58

I bought both the kids a 20 gauge So I just, got 20 gauges that had removable chokes and did what I could to, to get them on that 20 gauge. I've never had either one of my kids, wound a Turkey habit get away. Yeah. So with, with a 20 gauge or with any, with any gun. And my son now uses a 12 gauge, but my daughter still uses a 20. Yeah. I'll never forget my daughter. I think she was 11, on her first Turkey that she killed. It was a Jake. and, and we had gone out, heard some birds on the roost. It was a, just a great morning. And at some point in time she just decided, I'm gonna take a nap. So I let her take a nap. And we never used blinds. I've never hunted from a blind. Yeah. I've never hunted an eastern from a blind. And, so we sat there, let her sleep, and I didn't hardly make any calls. And then, I don't know what time it was probably close to nine o'clock and I decided to make a call and one bird gobbled, and I had to wake her up so that she could shoot this. And she was scrambling. It was, I'll never forget it. It was so much fun.

Ian 13:58

Yeah. That's cool. man, did any of them like push back? So it seems like both of 'em were interested enough to go out, but did it ever hit a point, like where maybe you took 'em out a couple times and then their desire to go out, fell off?

Mike 14:14

Yeah. My daughter probably when she hit a teenager, you know, probably boys are more important and, you know, Turkey hunting's not necessarily as, as cool in school. So she kind of cut back when she turned 16. Mm-hmm. Probably

Ian 14:28

a teenage girl at that

Mike 14:29

point. Yeah. Yeah. I'm

Ian 14:30

gonna be there soon. Don't

Mike 14:32

worry. Yeah. And I, and I'm okay with that, you know, I want them to do, if they wanna do it, I'll take them and I'd much rather have them get a, a bird than me. Yeah. So, but my son, he's always been into it. He's, he's always wanted to go, so I never really had to af after that one time that I just talked about. It seemed like that was it. Any chance he got to go Turkey hunting? He was going,

Ian 14:55

anything, like

Mike 14:57

Okay.

Ian 14:57

You started the process, let's say the first handful of times you took him out, was there anything about it that surprised you that you didn't think about maybe that would happen? And what I mean by that, it's not like circumstantial stuff that happens in the woods, but was it anything about their reaction or their passion for it, or their displeasure for it? Did anything like that, like completely throw you for a loop and surprise you that it happened that way?

Mike 15:21

No, I don't think so. Not that I can remember. we practiced in the living room so much. Yeah. We would have a, an empty gun and on their knee and I, I preached to them look, to talk to me. You don't have to move. 'cause if, if you move, then the turkey's probably gonna see you. Yeah. So you can talk to me and I'm gonna be, you know, right in your, right in your ear. I usually sat them between my legs. Yeah. And, so they could talk to me. And you don't need to do this. You have to break them of that. Yeah. And, they did a pretty good job. I can't think of anything that really shocked me. you know, their, their first reaction to hearing a Turkey gobble, that was pretty cool. 'cause then they could move, they're still in the roost and so they could, they

Ian 16:05

Yeah. it's that evidence. They need to know that, okay, it's safe for me to move a little bit. 'cause I know they're over there.

Mike 16:10

Yeah. And then when the, if the Turkey gets close and gobbles, just to have them, their eyeballs get so big. Yeah. It's, it's just awesome.

Ian 16:19

Oh yeah. I remember my first one and I was a grown man,

Mike 16:22

so Yeah, I remember that too. I've always had appreciation for the, the Turkey. And I've never wanted to take a chance and wound one, I, it just, it kills me to even Yeah. Walk down that road. And I never wanted them to, to, go down that road. So if, if they didn't practice prior to the season opening, they didn't go. Yep. And that was, that was how it was. You had to shoot the gun as they got older. They would shoot it more often. but you had to shoot the gun otherwise you don't go. And there was no exception. So, so I can't think of a time that they didn't shoot it, but they knew that that was the rule. Yeah. You had to practice

Ian 16:58

you're teaching 'em ethics and discipline at that point. Yeah. In order to, take part in this, you have to be disciplined in what you do and Yeah.

Mike 17:06

You know,

Ian 17:06

for myself, I know, like through my youth, my, my parents didn't hunt. my dad didn't hunt at all. He didn't grow up in a hunting family and neither did my mother. But, I just know through like my misled portion of my youth, like I see hunting now for what it is and see how it could have provided structure and discipline in my younger years. So like, for instance, with my own kids and I want to get them into this, I can see how that could be super beneficial to them. Yeah. And it's just the simple things like you're talking about like, look, you enjoy Turkey hunting in order to do it. We have to do these things beforehand. Yeah. If you don't, you don't get to do it. Right. There's no sidestep in this order of importance when it comes to doing this. so I got a quick little science fact. this is a research done out of Cornell University. It says, research on parent child outdoor mentorship shows that shared nature experiences create lasting emotional bonds distinct from other shared activities, partially because the stakes feel real without being dangerous. Studies on mentored youth hunting found strong correlations between the first guided hunting experience and long-term emotional regulation, conservation values, and sense of identity. So in a way it's preparing the kids for life. Yeah. You know, for emotional, you know? Yeah. We, we know what it's like, man, you got a bird gobbling coming in. Your, your senses go haywire. They do. And it doesn't matter how much you've practiced, everything kind of goes out the window and you have to regulate your emotions.

Mike 18:43

It's hard too.

Ian 18:44

It's very hard. It's funny because, the last podcast I did with our buddy Chad, he talks about how like I go into this whole nother mode when I, when I see a long beard or when I know one's

Mike 18:55

coming. Yeah.

Ian 18:56

and honestly I think that's why we like hunting. It's 'cause of that raw emotion.

Mike 18:59

no doubt

Ian 19:00

I've taken my daughter, she sat in the deer stand with me twice now, and I did take her out for youth season, two years ago. We called a Jake in and she enjoyed it. You know, she definitely remembers every single bit of that morning. we had a lot of birds. You know, the property I took her to, they're always roosting over that creek.

Mike 19:17

Yeah.

Ian 19:17

And so it was a symphony gobblers in the morning, it kind of cooled down. I ended up calling a Jake in and he walked right by us at like five yards. Mm. So she got that experience, but with her. She's shown no desire to even learn how to shoot at all, Whereas my son has not shown almost any desire in the outdoors, but he loves the idea of shooting. So I have like two opposite ends of the coin with my

Mike 19:42

kids.

Ian 19:42

Yeah, so my daughter is 11, my son's eight. But this year it's, it's really funny 'cause on the weekends I'll wake up and I'll go downstairs and drink coffee and watch YouTube, Turkey hunting videos. And my son over the past, like two months out of the blue has decided he wants to sit there and watch 'em with And so, Bobby's son this will be his second year youth Turkey hunting. And we're. Gonna actually put a gun in his hand this And I told my son about it, and he's all about going,

Mike 20:12

mm,

Ian 20:12

he wants to go. And I explained it to him. I said, listen man, we gotta get up early. Gotta go out there in the dark. And honestly, my son wakes up before anybody does.

Mike 20:19

Oh, is that right? Yeah. Not a problem for him.

Ian 20:21

I explained to him, and kind of like you were saying with your kids, I said, listen buddy, you're not gonna be shooting a bird, we need to get you comfortable shooting a gun and all that stuff before we can even think about getting to that point. But he wants to go and I'm excited for him just to experience To be out there, to be sitting in between my legs and hear the birds gobble. Hopefully we get one come in and he can see the whole show. So,

Mike 20:43

so maybe as he gets older, you know, maybe he shoots one at 11 or 12, some kids just aren't, aren't ready to, harvest an animal. And I don't know what age he, he'll be ready to do that, but maybe when he does, your daughter will then take a turn. Yeah. And she'll be like, you know what, maybe I'll try it and see what it's like.

Ian 21:01

yeah, I hope so.

Mike 21:03

Everybody's different.

Ian 21:04

Yeah. And I feel like, you know, it kind of depends on the temperament of the

Mike 21:08

and the environment,

Ian 21:09

Have you had other experiences with youth hunts that were the complete opposite of your experience with your own kids?

Mike 21:15

No, not really. Um, you know, kind of pound into kids' heads. Look, it's, it's okay to come home empty handed. Yeah. And it's, it's not about the kill. It's, it's just about going out and having some fun. Yep. I went with, with two other kids and they did exactly that. We heard a bunch of birds. but you know, none of them came in. They gobbled like crazy on roost. We had fun, but, you know, they ended up believing they had sports to go to or whatever. Yeah. They were, they were good with it, and then they wanted to come back, you know, they wanted to try it again. Yeah. So, you know, my daughter, after she lost, an interest in Turkey hunting, she went a number of years after college, I would say. She, she's gotten back into it and now she's even gone deer hunting. She actually, killed her first buck last year. She's never been to deer hunting and she's just kind of involved. over time and, and I've encouraged it. I mean, if she wants to go, I'll take her. Yeah. But I've never, never pushed her. She's never gone up until maybe five years ago, at first, maybe four. And then for, for two years, she just wanted to watch them. I was like, that's good. But she, she wanted a, a big buck. Yeah. You know, I had

Ian 22:30

well, you've set a pretty high

Mike 22:31

Yeah. I don't, I don't know how high, but, but it's just kind of let him grow. Yeah. And then, and then, you know, shoot something that's like, wow. All your friends will be like, oh my gosh, look how big he is. Yeah. so for two years we've hunted I think it was three years ago, we hunted. Seven days in a row and she got up, she went with me for seven days and she never picked up the gun. She just kept on, you know, watching, watching. We would talk about whatever deer we're seeing. Yeah. And, she loved it. That's awesome. And she was, yeah, she was okay with, you know, not going home with anything going home empty handed. She was fine with it. Yeah. So, but, but once, she killed her deer last year. She was pretty excited.

Ian 23:13

Yeah, I bet.

Mike 23:14

Yeah.

Ian 23:14

Yeah. We all get pumped to shoot a deer.

Mike 23:16

Yeah. She actually shot it when it was ru running a little bit. It was trot, it was during the rut and it was trotting a little bit. And I didn't want her to shoot, I didn't tell her to shoot. And the gun went off and she looked at me, she's like, I, I guess I shouldn't have shot. Then I was like, whoa, we'll wait and see. 'cause we didn't know it went down, but

Ian 23:30

yeah.

Mike 23:31

Oh yeah. So, it was fun.

Ian 23:33

So does your approach, like, let's refer to me. So when I met you and, you know, I'm like, Hey, Mike, you know, I, I can

Mike 23:42

you're a Turkey hunter.

Ian 23:43

So what, I mean, obvious, there's some obvious differences between taking a youth out and taking a grown ass man out. But is your approach the same? Is it still like a, you just want them to experience it, you need to coach them through the process, you know, is the expectation different being a grown ass man compared to a kid that you're taking out? Like, can you talk through anything like that? Like, and I don't know how many guys you've taken out other than myself,

Mike 24:10

I just, yeah. Um, I don't know either, to be honest with you. I kind of lose track over time, but you know, you still just talk your way through stuff, you know? Yeah, no, no quick movements. I can usually coach somebody when we're in the field. Yeah. Don't move now, or, you know, move your gun now, whatever. But I usually walk them through a scenario, somewhat, not in near as much detail as what you would a kid. but still at some point, you know, hey, bird's probably gonna come in and you're gonna be pointing one way. Good chance he might not come in exactly right then. Yeah. And it's, it's not the end of the world if he walks away. If there's a chance we could, you know, call him back in or get him to a different opening. Mm-hmm. or if you can get the, the gun moved just enough to, to take a clean shot. So not as much detail with a grownup, but I stress, again, you gotta shoot that gun. You got, you have to know what your gun can do. Yeah. And I try at all costs not to let anybody shoot more than 40 yards. Yeah. 40 yards. Even with TSSI know you can go 50, you can go 60, but it's just not, I just don't wanna do it.

Ian 25:18

Yeah. I'm the same. I don't, I don't feel comfortable

Mike 25:21

Yeah. I just try to keep 'em, keep 'em close. That's the hard part is getting 'em close.

Ian 25:25

I can only think of like two people that have asked me to take them hunting. but in both situations I feel more comfortable with them using my gun. Yeah. Whether they have their own gun or not. It's not, I know my gun is good. I know what my gun can do. I know the limitations of it. And again, this isn't a use, so you assume that this other grown adult can handle the 12 gauge that I'm handling them or whatever. And I think it matters too if, you know, I, I can't really see somebody who has absolutely no hunting experience to be like, Hey, take me Turkey hunting. Right. But you assume that they have some sort of hunting experience. Yeah.

Mike 25:57

yeah. I've never had anybody really that doesn't hunt ask me to take 'em either.

Ian 26:01

Yeah. So when I told you that I would like to get into Turkey hunting and I had a spot with birds, we hadn't hunted together prior to that. It's not like we were deer hunting buddies. And I said, Hey Mike, why don't you take me target hunting, but. is there like a point during that process where you're like, ah, I don't know if this guy's got it?

Mike 26:20

Yeah, for sure. If I go with you and I don't feel comfortable, if you're not safe,

Ian 26:25

well, safety aside, obviously safety is one thing, but,

Mike 26:29

Yeah. I'll talk you through it. and, and hopefully it won't happen again. But if there's just, you throw all caution to the wind and your main objective is just to kill something, I'm out. I just, yeah. I just, I just don't, I don't want to, instill that, that type of behavior in somebody, you know, I just, yeah. Have fun. You know, if you go home empty handed, so be it. if you get a chance to, to kill one,

Ian 26:54

cool. But do it the right

Mike 26:55

way. Yeah. Let's do it. It's so much, it's so much fun. You have to have respect for the Turkey. When you realize how hard it is for a gobbler to turn two years old or older, you have just a complete respect for how hard it is for hens to, have a nest for 28 days without being destroyed by predators. And then when the, they hatch, when the pulses hatch, they have about two and a half to three weeks to get up into a tree. So many things could happen during that time 'cause they're on the ground. So, it's so hard. So I just don't wanna do anything stupid or have somebody else do something. I mean, errors happen. Yeah, of course. You know, after,

Ian 27:38

It doesn't matter how

Mike 27:39

experienced Turkey

Ian 27:40

you are, you're gonna mess up.

Mike 27:41

Yep. You're human. So you just have to learn from it. I

Ian 27:43

I think I,

Mike 27:45

you

Ian 27:45

know, thinking back on the beginning, I definitely underestimated how hard Turkey

Mike 27:49

hunting is. We were pretty lucky. I mean, your first time,

Ian 27:52

I was trying to think about that before I came and sat down with you.

Mike 27:54

it might've been your.

Ian 27:56

I couldn't remember if that was the first time we went out there or if it was the second,

Mike 27:59

it was pretty lucky. I mean, we got that bird to fly the creek.

Ian 28:02

Yep. And I didn't understand how difficult that was

Mike 28:05

Yeah. Yeah. Now you do. do.

Ian 28:07

More than anything.

Mike 28:08

And he came right up over that bank

Ian 28:10

It worked Perfect.

Mike 28:11

Yeah, it did. I mean, you had the gun just pointed at the right spot. Yep. You kind of knew where he was gonna be and he came up right there.

Ian 28:19

I'll never forget

Mike 28:20

Me neither.

Ian 28:21

the rest of my

Mike 28:21

life. Yeah.

Ian 28:22

Well, what's funny too is so for, avid Turkey hunters out there, you understand birds do not wanna fly water. I don't understand it. I prefer to roost over water, but when it comes to flying over a little bit of water, they just refuse to do it sometimes. So when I first brought Mike to this property, I was like, you know, there's, there's birds and i'm sure you've heard that before. You know, someone's like, oh, there's bird's here in the fall, and you get there and there's nothing there because that's not their range in the spring. But we go out there and just about every time I've been to that property, it's just loaded with birds. Yeah. There's so, and I remember you that morning being like, oh my god. Yeah. Because there's just so many of 'em.

Mike 28:59

Yeah. It's one thing to have somebody tell you, you know, ah, there's birds everywhere here. And then you get there and you're like, Hmm. But you said there was, I take it with a grain of salt and then I, and then I got there and I'm like, yeah, he's not kidding.

Ian 29:10

lot of

Mike 29:10

of birds.

Ian 29:11

I feel like it was later. 8 30, 9 o'clock, maybe a couple hours after fly down. these birds typically fly down the other side of the creek. They gobble their brain's out. They do what turkeys do and then they mosey off and eventually

Mike 29:23

they go quiet.

Ian 29:24

I remember it was mid to late morning, you engage this bird, he ends up flying the creek coming over. I shoot him and you know,

Mike 29:32

He put on a show for us. He

Ian 29:33

did. And, and like looking back at it in the moment, I didn't appreciate how big that was. Yeah. You know what I mean? Now, you know, after our years of doing it, I'm like, oh my god, you know, what a great, but what I think's even better than that as you called a second bird across

Mike 29:50

the Yeah.

Ian 29:51

You know, the fact that you got one to do it, but we got two to do it that day and you know, it didn't work out. But, um. Just

Mike 29:59

lucky. It's just a feat,

Ian 30:01

you know, that's like, I've been hunting this property for years and I can't tell you how many times I've just got my butt whooped. 'cause they won't fly the creek.

Mike 30:08

Yeah.

Ian 30:09

and in my experience too, whether I'm calling and I'm very novice or I bring you or Bill who are great callers, it doesn't matter if they don't wanna fly it, they're not gonna

Mike 30:17

Nope. It's amazing. they make up their mind for whatever reason. Yeah. And, you just never know.

Ian 30:22

I've always really respected and appreciated your approach to Turkey hunting and you covet it, you appreciate it for what it is. You have immense respect for the bird. you teach discipline, but you also teach like it's fun. Yeah. We're out there to have the experience. It's not about shooting the bird and man, me and you have hunted a lot

Mike 30:40

together. Yeah, we have.

Ian 30:41

had a lot of, successful harvest days. We've doubled a couple times together.

Mike 30:46

We've sat there for a couple hours and never made a, never made a call and then make a call. We get one to gobble like hundreds of yards away

Ian 30:53

For the first probably two or three years. I didn't feel confident hunting by myself, you know? It

Mike 30:58

always Now you do though,

Ian 31:00

It was always with you or somebody else. If, if I was able to, but you know, over the years of getting more confidence and having more, opportunities to hunt by myself, you've always been very supportive of like, man, good job. I can't believe you. You know, like the whole Wisconsin trip with that bird, you were like, oh my god yeah. What a hunt. What a three days. I can't believe you. You were able to pull it off, you know,

Mike 31:20

that was a great hunt. You just kept after it. And same bird morning after morning. Yeah. And you ended up killing him. I mean, it is, it was just,

Ian 31:26

I talked

Mike 31:27

it was amazing.

Ian 31:27

I talked to Richie about that the other day and I was like, man, I knew for me, my experience with podcasting, 'cause we're still learning about this, is as hunters, the Turkey hunters specifically, we love hearing Turkey hunting stories. Like just to sit down and talk about a story, you know, talk

Mike 31:44

We like telling 'em too. Yeah, exactly.

Ian 31:46

might exaggerate 'em a little bit,

Mike 31:48

but

Ian 31:49

I've talked to Richie about it recently and I'm like, man, we should sit down and tell that story of that trip. Yeah. Because something about that trip changed me, like something about the pursuit of that same bird for three days and having to use every little tool that I've picked up along the way from you, from anybody to try to, to get an opportunity. It so it changed something in me. It

Mike 32:11

I could be wrong, but it seemed like that was the first time you put all the pieces together. Like you kept picking pieces here, pieces there, and you were, you know, I wasn't able to, to fly to Wisconsin to help you. You were on your own.

Ian 32:23

I think I kept calling you like,

Mike 32:25

I would call

Ian 32:25

you at the end of the day and be like, look, this is what we're dealing with. What do you think? But still to this day, I was thinking about this the other day, Mike. That's the only bird I've shot by myself really?

Mike 32:33

Really?

Ian 32:34

The only one.

Mike 32:36

Well, I mean,

Ian 32:37

I've called birds in for other guys.

Mike 32:39

You, you hunt with a lot of people, so

Ian 32:41

I like it. I like hunting with other people, but that's the only bird that I've shot hunting by myself. Yeah. So that,

Mike 32:48

was a tough one too. It was. That was a good bird too. It's a giant bird. Holy

Ian 32:51

I can't overemphasize just how grateful I am for you being the mentor that I've had, because I can see how different styles of Turkey hunting can lead guys down the wrong road.

Mike 33:01

you get more caught into, you know, a Turkey killer instead of a Turkey hunter.

Ian 33:05

Yeah. And there's a difference. is, there is a total difference, man.

Mike 33:08

if you're willing to, know, crawl up on birds, just do stuff that I, I just don't, don't, use those tactics myself. Yeah. I want the bird to come to me.

Ian 33:19

Yeah.

Mike 33:19

I don't know.

Ian 33:20

So I want to kind of move into Turkey calling. You know, you've kind of shared a little bit about how you

Mike 33:26

got started out

Ian 33:27

and it was the calling aspect that really attracted you to Turkey hunting. At what point in your mind did it change from, I want to sound like turkeys to, I want to know how turkeys talk. Were you were more like, your attention to detail was more so on the cadence and when to say what and if a hen is over here yelping and cutting, what is she trying to say?

Mike 33:51

I would probably say that like the mid nineties probably.

Ian 33:55

So wa was it shortly after you got started or was it like five, 10 years into it where you were like, huh, maybe there's more than just making a clock and a Yelp. That sounds good. Maybe it's, I need to figure out when to Yelp, when to cut,

Mike 34:07

It was probably mid nineties, somewhere around there that I started. they started coming out with cassette tapes, so I started listening to those, early two thousands. They started coming out with stuff on the computer, made it a lot easier. I mean,

Ian 34:22

just live hand recordings. Yeah. And you could sit back and listen to 'em.

Mike 34:25

And then hunting with different people that were, you know, more experienced than I was. Yeah. So they, it's all about passing stuff on to people. Yeah. Learning from other people,

Ian 34:38

I asked you the question like, when you got started, was everyone hush, hush? 'cause that's what I've always heard about. Early Turkey hunting culture was

Mike 34:46

Yep.

Ian 34:47

You didn't talk about what you did. It seems like that's completely changed in the, in the culture, is that people are really more apt to teach.

Mike 34:56

Yeah, for sure. Yep. everybody has their way of going about things.

Ian 35:02

if it's not direct teaching, just like for instance, all the years of me really following your lead, to me, it was all I was a sponge. Listening to how you call, listening to when you call, listening to how loud or how soft you call and what situations, you call a certain way as opposed to others, and a lot of that it's my brain and the way I, I process things, but. I was so fascinated with how everything was that I was trying to gather as

Mike 35:25

much as I could. Yeah. You want, you wanted to learn.

Ian 35:26

I wanted to learn.

Mike 35:28

And and you just keep at it. You're relentless.

Ian 35:31

and it's, as much as I've sat next to you in the Turkey woods and now you know, bill, who's an excellent caller, sat next to him in the Turkey woods. I still sound like crap. You know what I mean? I,

Mike 35:39

Don't, I don't think so. I mean, maybe I sound better than I did. Yeah. You, you sound different. Yeah. So, and you never know what a bird's gonna want. Yeah. You just have to see. Yeah. Try it. yeah. Bill's a good, he's a good caller. but there's, there's a different type of hunting also. He's, he's real aggressive. Yeah. He's louder than what I am. Yeah. Pete killed some birds.

Ian 36:01

To me that's fascinating. Being so, obsessed with the culture. I think it's so fascinating to see. The differences. Yeah. You know how different people approach birds and everybody has success. Yeah. Don't let that be mistaken as like success is, you know, abundant. Because it's not, it's hard as hell to kill a

Mike 36:18

Yeah. 95% of the time you go home empty handed. But hopefully you learn something.

Ian 36:21

at what point did you start tinkering with making your own calls?

Mike 36:25

I don't know, in 2019. I don't even know why I did it. I don't know if I was bored. Jack Chamara, if, if you've ever heard of him, he's from New York. He used to make scratch boxes and he was really, really good at it, but he didn't make many and he was hard to get ahold of. And he since since passed away, I think he passed away around 2010. But I, I had a, a couple of his calls, I like scratch boxes, so I decided, you know what, I'm gonna try to make some. And my dad's a, really good woodworker, so I just started tinkering with making these things. And I, I mirror them after, Jack's call, so I try to make something similar to it. I've never cut one of his calls apart, so I don't know what it looks like on the inside, but I would imagine it's something similar to what I do. I liked it. I was like, wow, you know, this is pretty fun. They sound pretty good. Started killing birds with it. we talked about, Carl and he's taken some of these, my scratch boxes and he can play it like there's no tomorrow. And, I said, well, if they sound that good in somebody else's hands, then I'm gonna try to make some, but I kind of cut back on how many I make anymore after, I don't know, five or six years of making 'em, I just don't, don't make it.

Ian 37:46

that you've handed me probably six of 'em over the years. You never let me pay for 'em either. So it's not a money making thing,

Mike 37:51

a fashion thing. No. Yeah. No, I just, if you have 'em, I'd like you to, you know, learn to use 'em. scratch boxes can be pretty good, especially if you want to go light, you just hike back into the woods. You just wanna take something light.

Ian 38:04

they're very

Mike 38:04

convenient.

Ian 38:05

very small. Like

Mike 38:06

Yeah. They're, I carry like five 'cause they, I have five different calls that sound different

Ian 38:12

That's something I've always appreciated about you too, is you run a wide variety of calls. Yeah.

Mike 38:17

Like

Ian 38:18

a lot of guys, and I think you too, you have your go-to calls that you feel most confident in, but since I've known you, you've always been confident and able to run. Every call that I know of. Yeah. As far as shape, size, friction, mouth call, like all of it.

Mike 38:33

There's a couple that I can't run. It's just, for whatever reason I, I can't run them. But, I'd say most of them like a tube c call. I can't, I can't run a tube call.

Ian 38:41

I've never seen you run a

Mike 38:42

Yeah. For whatever reason that the vibration of the latex on on just drives me insane. So I don't even try,

Ian 38:49

I don't think I've ever even seen somebody use. Well, that's not true. Bill uses one every once in a while, but the tube call's a really niche call. I feel like it's not, it's not like something crazy. But, well, if you don't mind, do me a favor,

Mike 39:02

just run the call a little bit. It's, let's see what it sounds like. It's, this is just a, a cedar call I made, you know, six years ago. it's one of my favorites. just have a striker, some chalk on the striker and, and, yeah, it's just, it's, it's nothing technical about, they're pretty easy to run.

Ian 39:19

huh? Yeah.

Mike 39:20

good it is or how bad it is.

Ian 39:34

And they sound really good.

Mike 39:35

Yeah. I've killed a number of birds with them. Matter of fact, that's usually my go-to call now. Mainly because I make 'em

Ian 39:42

Well, yeah, there's like a different satisfaction. I know that you called something in with something you

Mike 39:46

made. Yeah. I used to be, when I first started out was mouth call only. And then, one of my mom's friend's husband's, no, that's a mouthful, was friends with, bill Earing and he got me a, a Cody call. This was back in the late eighties. And, then I started playing, a pot call and then that was my go-to call for years and years and years. I just played a pot call probably for 15 years and then, switched over a little bit to, to a box call. Liked those for a while. And then, another buddy of mine got into, wing bones and trumpets. So I went down that road for a while and now, you know, with, with Carl making wing bones now, I really, used those quite a bit. Mm-hmm. So, yeah. it's kind of like I go through phases.

Ian 40:38

Yeah. I think Hearing you run pot calls when we first started hunting together kind of drew me to that. Yeah. that's my most confident call. Yeah. I feel most confident with a pot call

Mike 40:49

You can, you can do just the basics with it. Yeah. You can get loud, go soft. yeah. And there's, there's so many people making pot calls today. It's crazy. It's like the industry's just taking off. That's another I don't make a lot. I mean, there's so many people making these or making other type calls that it, I, and like you said, I just don't make them for the money. I just.

Ian 41:11

They're great calls. I'm sure that you could make a good amount of money selling 'em. But

Mike 41:15

there's a guy in Alabama that he's gotten like five calls from me and him. His son, he's an older gentleman, him, his son, and his grandson. They just, they tear up the birds down there. So it's, yeah. It's, it's always awesome to see pictures on Facebook of those guys.

Ian 41:31

Oh, absolutely.

Mike 41:32

Yeah.

Ian 41:32

You're now, you're now part of it in a way that is so tangible, you know? Yeah. It's your call and a whole different state. Yeah. You know, and, and people are killing birds with a cold, you mean? Yeah.

Mike 41:45

all right, What

Ian 41:46

has Turkey hunting given you that you couldn't have got anywhere else?

Mike 41:50

a lot of friendships. You know, I wouldn't have the friendships that I have. Yeah.

Ian 41:55

know that we'd be buddies

Mike 41:56

young.

Ian 41:56

it wasn't for Tur

Mike 41:57

Yeah. I'm not sure either. I mean, you're a heck of a mechanic.

Ian 42:00

Yeah.

Mike 42:02

and I like to learn about that kind of stuff, you know? Yeah. I call you quite a bit on advice on that. Yep. But yeah, the, the friendships I've made over the years have just been awesome. it's a lot of fun.

Ian 42:14

what does the Turkey Woods demand of a person and why does meeting that demand matter?

Mike 42:19

Patience. Patience is like the biggest thing in, in my mind.

Ian 42:25

It's hard. I can be really impatient.

Mike 42:27

you think you ought to move and then you move and you make a couple calls and the bird ends up. Right where you just were. Yeah, that's, you learn real fast that way. Yeah. I've had that happen to me a couple times. and then, you know, hunting with other people I've had like, oh, let's move. And, ah, you wanna stay? Nah, it's moving. We moving. We should've stayed. Yeah. So, you just, you just never know. there's a hunt that my son and I had, oh, back in 2020 and, the birds were fired up in the morning. We went out, they just got with heads and that was it. And we decided at, at probably around eight 30, we're going back to the house, eat something for breakfast. So at about 10 o'clock after we finish this crazy breakfast, I said, you wanna go back out? And he's like, sure. And we went back out to where the birds were. We, we could only go just so far. We didn't have permission on other properties, so we just went to, close to where they were, sat down and I made a couple calls with a, another scratch box. my son says. Oh my god, dad, here he comes, don't move. And I usually try to cover my ears, but when my kids are involved, I'm not covering my ears. Just so he, he can get the shot. And he's sitting to my left and, I was like, he's like, I can't get a shot at him. I said, just wait for, for him to go behind a tree. His ears are really good. He can hear all that stuff. And he does. And I just see him move and I knew it was over. And, he pummeled that bird, but that bird never made a peep coming in. He just happened to pick up on the fact that, you know, he saw a movement and, yeah, the bird came in

Ian 44:01

It is so hard to be patient for a quiet bird coming in. God, there's so much of you that wants to continue calling just to, you know, Where's he at? I want him to gobble, but yeah. Yeah, it's hard to be patient and I'm, like I said, that's like going into this season, like that was the one thing that hit me as far as like, I wanna be better at is I, I need to be more

Mike 44:21

It's hard

Ian 44:22

and, and it is not even so much like, sitting still for longer. because

Mike 44:28

I think

Ian 44:28

for me, the moving around aggressive type of hunting draws to me more. And obviously that can be detrimental to a hunt, especially in, smaller properties or whatever. But. I know over the years, 10 o'clock comes around, it's like, all right, nothing's going on. Let's go home. You know? And, and I think that I'm missing out on a lot of opportunity for those late morning birds. If I would just pack a granola bar and a bottle of water and sit for the rest of the

Mike 44:55

time. It's hard,

Ian 44:56

but it is really

Mike 44:57

hard. Yeah. Especially I other things to do,

Ian 44:59

you have other things to do, or in my case, I have no butt, so after I'm sitting on the ground for three hours, like my back hurts, my butt's hurting. I'm like, ugh.

Mike 45:06

you're tired of it.

Ian 45:08

there anything I guess this could be a two parted question. Is there anything about Turkey hunting as a culture that you've seen over the last 10, 20 years that's changed that you like and also dislike?

Mike 45:23

so the, the gear has gotten so much better, so I like that, you know, the, the shells you use now, the TSS, they just, it's phenomenal. I don't like taking the long shot. But I like the

Ian 45:39

efficiency.

Mike 45:39

Yeah.

Ian 45:39

you hear a lot of guys talk about TSS being so good, not for the distance, but for the fact that it can shoot through brush.

Mike 45:45

Yeah. I'm not a big shoot through brush guy, if I shoot a bird, I'm gonna kill it. Exactly. And if I don't have a good shot, I'm not taking it. But TSS just gives me that extra sense of confidence that

Ian 45:56

it makes it absolute.

Mike 45:57

if I get a shot at a bird, I have confidence that if I can catch him just with a couple of pellets with TSS, you know, he's

Ian 46:06

done.

Mike 46:06

Yeah.

Ian 46:07

Is there anything that drives you crazy that you're like, oh man, I wish Turkey hunting wouldn't have adopted this aspect, or this is getting too big or,

Mike 46:16

um, you know, a lot of guys chase, 49 states to, to shoot birds and, uh, yeah. I don't know what it's done for Turkey hunting. I feel like they've lost some of the, the hunting experience. Just go out and have a good time. Instead of having a

Ian 46:38

it's more of a

Mike 46:38

of a checklist. Yeah. Instead of having a pressure of I gotta get one in Utah and I gotta get one here, I gotta get one there. Yeah.

Ian 46:45

where, whereas it used to be like a feat, you know, it was an accomplishment. Now it's kind of like everybody's doing it. It's kind of lost the ambiance of it.

Mike 46:52

Yep.

Ian 46:53

Yeah. if you had to stop tomorrow, what would be the one thing about Turkey hunting you miss the most? Don't get me wrong, there's a whole list of things that you would miss, but if you were to pick one thing.

Mike 47:03

probably hunting with my kids.

Ian 47:05

Yeah.

Mike 47:07

I really enjoy, Hunting with them. it's fine.

Ian 47:09

it's gotta be a form of quality time with your kids that is unmatched in any other aspect.

Mike 47:13

And they're, they're just good at what they do. They have ice in their veins. It comes down to the moment of truth, and they're able to make things happen in a bad situation and they get it done. Yeah. Two years I would go a buddy of mine took my daughter and I, out and, my daughter and him get along great. And she just does a, just a good job of, taking care of business, not being sloppy, not taking fullish shots. She, she just has a mindset of when it's game time. I'm on. Yeah. And, so he took us out to this spot. we set up early, put out a couple decoys. I'm not a big decoy person. Sometimes they work, sometimes they don't. When field birds, they usually work a little bit better. I hate field birds.

Ian 48:02

I've

Mike 48:03

I'm

Ian 48:03

put Mike through the ringer with some field birds.

Mike 48:06

so he, set up my daughter and I, we put a couple decoys out and she is, amazing when it comes to, being in the woods or being on the edge of the field and catching movement and the birds gobbled, good on roost, hit the ground and not much. we would call, every now and then, and at some point in time she's like, I see a hen. And I'm like, where? She's like, across the field, right along the edge of the woods. And it was a good distance. And I was like, okay, alright. I see it now. And then the hen was working its way towards us, but still at a, probably a hundred yards out. we were calling, really calling to her, trying to bring her, if we could bring her in. She probably has, you know, a couple boyfriends with her. she just kept working her way along the edge of the field. And next thing she goes, oh my God, there's a gobbler behind her. I was like, game on. And it was like she could see before I could, and her eyesight was just so good. and sure enough she's like, oh my gosh, here comes another gobbler. There's two of them. my buddy's like, just don't move, stay calm. And she does it, my gun's on the ground at this point, and the hen comes over to check out our decoys. And of course the boys come with her and she's like, which one do I kill? And I'm like, your pick whichever one you feel the most confident with. So, so yeah, she kills Juan and my buddy out of nowhere. We didn't talk about this beforehand, but my buddy out of nowhere goes, might kill the other one. And I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm in a really bad spot.

Ian 49:40

Your gun's

Mike 49:41

on the ground? Yeah, my gun's on the ground. So, Yeah, my buddy just starts purring at this, at this bird and initially the hen Hugo's taken off and the gobbler, he's not sure what to do. His buddy's, you know, on the ground flopping. And, yeah, so he starts purring at this thing pretty aggressively and the bird hung around just enough. And I got my gun up only to find out that as the sun came up, I lost my red dot.

Ian 50:05

Oh no.

Mike 50:06

So I, it was like, oh my gosh, I'm not even sure where it is. Like I know where it should be. And he was about 35 yards, so, my gun at that distance, shoots a pretty good

Ian 50:16

Oh yeah, you're good.

Mike 50:16

It's not, I don't like a real tight pattern. With TSS and yeah, I dropped that bird too. So it was, it was the only,

Ian 50:24

The bird she shot that morning was

Mike 50:26

Yeah,

Ian 50:26

I know that's a great picture of the two

Mike 50:28

e

Ian 50:28

with

Mike 50:28

are birds. Yeah. Yeah. That morning was unbelievable. My son and I have doubled a couple times. You and I have doubled a couple times, but that hunt was just so special because she, she lives in Colorado now. She doesn't get a chance to, we don't get a chance to hunt together a lot. Yeah. So, yeah, that was a, a special warning.

Ian 50:43

What is, if you could, if you could like give advice or tell one thing to a new Turkey hunter getting ready to go out for their very first hurricane hunt, what would it be? And that could be kid or adult.

Mike 50:54

Yeah. Just know your gun, know what you can do, and don't take a risky shot. you have to identify your target. Again, don't take a risky shot. That, I think that's the biggest thing. If you go out and you're able to hear a bird gobble and talk to him a little bit and he gobbles back to you, this, that's a great hunt.

Ian 51:13

You've already accomplished what you went out

Mike 51:14

for. Yeah. Yeah. In my mind. Yeah.

Ian 51:16

I don't ever come back from a Turkey hunt, upset if I heard a bird

Mike 51:20

gobble. Yeah. Period. It's just fun. Yeah.

Ian 51:24

Best bird you've ever called in. Not the biggest, just the most memorable.

Mike 51:31

I shot one with a crossbow once, and it's hard with a crossbow, a shotgun. So much easier. And this bird was in an area that, it was pretty tough to get close to him. I sat down, called him in, he gobbled almost the whole way until he got really close to me and then he shut up and I, I knew where he should come out. Well, when I saw his fan, it was too late. And he was, I don't know, 20 yards from me, but there's no moving. So he was just slightly off of where I needed him to be with that, with that crossbow. And he walked within five yards of me. I just, I just closed my eyes and never moved.

Ian 52:11

Hmm.

Mike 52:12

And he walked right past me and I waited for him to get by me. And then he started gobbling on his own, probably 70, 80, 90 yards out from me. And I let him go. I had no decoy out at the time. And then once he got out there far enough, I actually had a decoy with me and I turned around, stuck the decoy, about 30 yards from me, 25 yards and set it up, started calling to him and he fired back up.

Ian 52:39

turned right back around,

Mike 52:40

I called him back in, and then I killed him with the crossbow.

Ian 52:43

That's

Mike 52:43

Yeah. That was crazy. And it was late in the morning too. Yeah. I talked about my daughter's first bird and of course my first bird. Those are always very memorable. But, my son's, first gobbler, it was a youth hunt here in Virginia and it was, Pretty cold that morning, and he sat right between my legs and we had this bird coming on a string right to us, and he came right in front of my son's gun. And for whatever reason, he decided not to shoot. He's like, I, I just don't have a clear shot. I was like, when you have a clear shot, you know, I'm that far from his ear. So when you have a clear shot, you know, go ahead and kill him. But there was no pressure from me. I never said, you know, kill him now. And the bird came in and for whatever reason, he didn't pull the trigger and the bird started walking left. And I said, the. And just follow him with your gun. And he did. And the bird just kept going through openings and never picked up on my son moving. Why? I don't know. But he just kept on moving to our left, moving to our left, and I just kept telling my son, you know, just keep following him. Follow him. And whenever you get a chance, you know, kill him. And he never did. And the bird circled almost the whole way around. And the bird got to back here and my son was turned almost completely around between my legs and he had his gun sitting like right here

Ian 54:11

in your elbow crease.

Mike 54:12

Yeah. And I'm like, if you can kill him, you know, again, kill him. Boom. The gun went off and he dropped him. It took him from there to back here. And I don't know why, he just said, ah, just not right. Quite there. You know, I can't get a shot. There he is moving, whatever. And

Ian 54:28

he just wanted to watch him longer.

Mike 54:30

it was crazy. And that it was on my birthday.

Ian 54:33

Oh, that's great.

Mike 54:33

And we got that bird mounted and it's, that's the only bird that I have mounted.

Ian 54:38

it's a great mount

Mike 54:39

too. Yeah. it's pretty cool.

Ian 54:40

I think, from my time hunting with you, the one that sticks out to me the most, and this goes back into the whole patience thing we talked about was, we were hunting field birds. this is one of the days we doubled. We were hunting field birds. These birds typically roost 200 yards into the woods. They fly down, they come out to the field. at this point we're putting decoys out in the field. We get the birds to come in. I end up shooting one. We celebrated and we enjoyed the moment like we always do. and this was early on, this was probably only like my third year Turkey hunting. Yeah. And I was like, so what do we do now? And you're like, we're gonna sit here for an hour and a half and not make a peep.

Mike 55:14

Yeah. I remember it., You're like, we're gonna do what?

Ian 55:18

And again, this goes back to patience. this is stuff that you learned through your experience. Yeah. Like you can't teach it, but, I remember I'm looking at the clock, don't get me wrong. I was enjoying, it was a beautiful morning, we had good weather, I already shot a nice bird. So I'm along for the ride at this point. And literally you were like, I remember nine 30 was an hour and a half and you pull out a call and one hammers and comes right in.

Mike 55:42

It was crazy.

Ian 55:43

It was crazy. this bird came, who knows where it came from? Yeah. It came from a direction they don't typically come from. No,

Mike 55:48

No. Nope. It was the craziest thing. And when that bird gobbled, he was well, well outta sight. You and I look at each other, I think we probably high fived each other and, yeah. In 20 minutes he was dead. awesome. Yeah. It was. God, that was great. We got to see him come the entire way across that field. Yep

Ian 56:04

he came in at a different angle. He didn't go to the decoys. He flanked the decoys. Yeah. And was walking past us. Yeah. To me, out of all the hunts we've had together, that one sticks out the most. Yeah. 'cause it was so, it was almost like you knew it was gonna happen, and obviously you didn't, you know, but

Mike 56:19

we're

Ian 56:20

gonna be patient. I'm gonna call. All right.

Mike 56:22

That happened one other time to me, hunting with a buddy down in, Roanoke. he was a new hunter and we had so close right off the bat, and the bird had a hen with him When we were close and the bird walked off gobbling with the hen, he is like, what do we do now? I was like, well, we're gonna sit here for an hour and a half and not do anything.

Ian 56:41

Yeah.

Mike 56:41

So him and I just sat there and we chatted, or I think we had phones at that time, so we were on our phones, whatever.

Ian 56:48

I know me. And you were always looking at stupid stuff on the internet and laughing,

Mike 56:52

And then the bird gobbled on his own, and I started calling to him and he came right back in. He killed him like tight. He he came right into us. Yeah. And he, he didn't shoot. I told him, you know, wait till he gets close and he let him get really close. He said, if I was back in Pennsylvania for that, my buddies would've pounded at Bird with, with calling. And I was like, yeah, I don't know. It's just how I played it that morning. And it worked. Yeah, exactly. And he's like, yeah, my buddies have no patience. So, yeah, it just, it worked out good. That was, I think that was his first bird too.

Ian 57:24

Oh, that's great. I'm sure you've called in a lot of people's First

Mike 57:27

Birds. my daughter and my son. My daughter shot her first bird when I woke her up that morning. it was a Jake and he came in and he hopped up on the log and I'm like. Kill him, Jackie. And she pulled the trigger and the log was pretty big. And she literally took him right off the log and he went and he never flopped, never nothing. It was just like, he disappeared, boom. And she's like, where is he? And honestly, I said, I don't know. I have you missed maybe. No, I, I, I don't know. So we ran out there and he was laying on the other side of the log. Yeah, it was, it was awesome. It was crazy, crazy morning to sit there and

Ian 58:05

God, that's,

Mike 58:06

that's awesome. Yeah.

Ian 58:07

I don't really have anything else to drill you with, but what's one thing that, can't be taught but only experienced as far as in Turkey Woods?

Mike 58:17

I'd have to say hearing him spit and drum, like, there's nothing like it. but to have them that close and either being able to see them or, or you can't see them, it, it doesn't matter. But there's a part of your chest that you can feel that vibration of them spitting your drum's. There's nothing like it. It's, it's the weirdest thing and it's awesome.

Ian 58:40

I remember when I called that giant bird for Bobby out of some stroke of luck. And I was definitely lucky there was no experience there. Oh. Other than what I've watched you do, you know, the years prior to it knew like, okay, I don't need to call anymore. It's time to shut up. But that bird tried to pass us at like five yards and that was the, I remember that was the first time I heard spitting and drumming and like you said, it, it's not even so much something you hear, you feel it.

Mike 59:04

Yeah. I don't know why. It's awesome. It is awesome. So I gotta tell one other story. I was hunting with my, good buddy Stoner. he's awesome. I've hunt hunted with him many, many times and, and to hunt and to kill a Turkey with him, it's insane. 'cause the guy comes unglued. He, he celebrates and the whole world knows it. So, one time I was hunting with him, and it just so happened that usually I try to get whoever I'm with, try to get them to, get a bird before I do well. That morning, I think the year before I had gotten him a bird and I hadn't gotten one. Well, that morning he said, I want you to shoot first. So I'm calling and he's sitting behind me, just not very far, but. A bird comes in and he gobbles right up to a certain point and then stops. And he was out in front of me and I'm just sitting there and then I could feel and hear the spitting and drumming and I could just feel it. And I'm like, where is this bird? And my buddy stoner's sitting behind me like 20 yards. And he said that bird was like 15 yards to your left and you didn't move. And he sat there and just, he went full fan strutting, spitting and drumming. And, and I didn't move. I honestly expected to be able to see him, but I couldn't, but I could feel him. And he was right there. Well, he ended up walking away and, we called that bird Beckett and killed him.

Ian 1:00:25

The fact, the fact that you had the wherewithal to not move and look to your left. 'cause you want to do that. Yeah. You want to be like, I can hear it outta my left ear. He's, he, I can hear him drumming. He's within 60 yards. Yeah, but you're, you know, you don't swing. And, and

Mike 1:00:38

look, I, I expected him to shoot it and I would've been. Perfectly fine with it. Yeah. He said, he said just sat there and watched the whole thing.

Ian 1:00:45

I think that's kind of an unspoken thing, at least with me and you. If you get a shot, you take it. Yeah. You know what I mean? Obviously if it's safe, you're not gonna shoot

Mike 1:00:51

My left ear

Ian 1:00:51

or anything like that. But,

Mike 1:00:53

I

Ian 1:00:53

over the years, me and you hunting together, you were always very adamant about like, you should the bird, you shoot the bird, you shoot the bird. And it wasn't like a, this is the way it's gonna be. If you get an opportunity and I don't, you're gonna shoot. But it took me a while to understand like. It doesn't matter who pulls the trigger. And honestly like the times that I've taken someone else hunting and me and Bob have recollected the idea that like, man, all the times me and Bob have hunted together. He's always shooting it. I usually do the calling and I've had the opportunity to call birds for some other people too. They must be dumb 'cause they somehow came into

Mike 1:01:27

my,

Ian 1:01:27

there's something different about it when you're

Mike 1:01:30

steering

Ian 1:01:31

the bird. Yeah. When you're the one that's calling the bird, you're the one communicating. You're the one kind of guiding as far as like, Hey man, be ready. It sounds like he's coming here. It sounds like he's gonna walk there. Like there's so much enjoyment out of that

Mike 1:01:41

Well, that reminds me of, last year when you, bill and I were hunting together in pa and, that was, it was just awesome. You're, you hearing's better than mine and you knew that Bird was out there and Bill and I never heard it. And it was a windy day and it was really late. It was like 11. Yeah, it was like 11 o'clock in the morning. You are like, I know, I heard a bird. So we, we walked out towards him and you, and then we all heard him, and you and I sat on, sat down in that tree and you're like, listen, if he comes your side, kill him. I'm like, no, I, I want you to kill him. I mean, and Bill sat behind us and he pulled that bird exactly where we needed him to be. 100

Ian 1:02:14

Man, that was such a surreal moment for me. Yeah.

Mike 1:02:16

it was awesome.

Ian 1:02:17

Everything about it was awesome,

Mike 1:02:18

but it was, you got to see him so much better than I could from Well, our set and I was sitting right beside you.

Ian 1:02:23

Yeah. By the time this podcast comes out, that video will be on our YouTube, but. Our set was so nice in the fact that we had this big, like brush pile in front of us. The bird, there was no way the bird was ever gonna see us.

Mike 1:02:34

No. It was just matter. Thank goodness for the brush pile.

Ian 1:02:36

It was just a matter of like, is he gonna go to the right and you're gonna get a shot or is he gonna go to the left and I'm gonna get a shot. But the part of that hunt that was so cool to me, and you pointed out you were the first one to point it out, cause in the moment I'm just so pumped. We had been chasing birds for two days at that point and and this is the end of the season. I mean, yeah, this is the end of May.

Mike 1:02:55

Yeah. end of our hunt up there.

Ian 1:02:57

to leave like an hour later. But anyways, you pointed it out. You were like, you called that burden.

Mike 1:03:04

that's not an ego me whatsoever.

Ian 1:03:07

The importance of that is like for all the years that, you have mentored me in the Turkey woods, like this is something that I've adopted. With, with my Turkey on experience. If I go hunt with somebody who's better at calling, I don't touch a call. Let the guys that are better at it do their that morning we threw everything we had at every place we went to try to get a bird to, to do anything. And I remember this being the last hour that we're hunting, I don't wanna say we lost hope, but we weren't

Mike 1:03:35

expecting

Ian 1:03:36

No. And he was like 25 mile an hour winds, you can't hear nothing. And I ran a pot call and he hammered and it was just like,

Mike 1:03:44

you started a bird, you finish it. Yeah. and you did man. And that to

Ian 1:03:48

me, just to be on a hunt with you guys, guys that I look up to in the Turkey hunting world and for me to be able to engage that bird and call him man. And obviously Bill. Bill closed it out. He

Mike 1:04:00

the deal for sure. Being

Ian 1:04:01

where he was in relation to the bird and us. Like he pulled it right by us. But man, that was so surreal for me.

Mike 1:04:07

never forget you, you saw the bird and I couldn't see him, and you're like, oh my gosh. I'm like sitting in a hole. I gotta get up. I'm like, don't move. Next thing I know, you're like, scooting up. I'm like, oh no. And he was behind that brush pile. Yeah. And then he popped out to the left bill, pouring right to the left and he killed him. good

Ian 1:04:24

bird too.

Mike 1:04:24

So, you know what I love, about that hunt besides the experience is the picture of the three of us afterwards. Oh yeah. The, the black and white that I don't know, one of you guys put together. Yeah, it was awesome.

Ian 1:04:34

That's, that's what it's about, man. I think for me, even if we don't shoot that bird, that whole trip, that whole experience is a lasting memory

Mike 1:04:41

for you? It is fun.

Ian 1:04:42

the fact that we did shoot a bird obviously solidifies it as more of a core memory, but

Mike 1:04:46

just right icing on the cake.

Ian 1:04:47

like I said, everything about it, just being there with you guys and what we went through and you briefly spoke about guys that are trying to shoot birds in every state. And that is not my goal whatsoever, but I've been fortunate to shoot some birds in a handful of states. And for me it's a whole new world. You know? It's a new environment, it's new territory, it's new, it's topography that I'm not used to in the places I hunt, you know? So to me that is so immersive and so fun to just go to a completely new place. Even if it's private ground that a buddy of mine knows there's birds on. Right. To me, it's new. It

Mike 1:05:15

doesn't matter. Right.

Ian 1:05:17

Alright, Mike, I really appreciate you sitting down and talking with me.

Mike 1:05:19

Yeah, enjoy it. Always enjoy talking, uh, talking about Turkey. Yeah,

Ian 1:05:22

Yeah. And again, I really appreciate you teaching me the right way. Yeah. You

Mike 1:05:28

it's fun.

Ian 1:05:28

it's invaluable.

Mike 1:05:29

We have a good time

Ian 1:05:30

And like I said, the more time goes on, the more I appreciate it.

Mike 1:05:33

No, looking forward to our next time out.

Ian 1:05:35

Yep. It's coming soon bud.

Mike 1:05:36

Yeah, I know. Can't wait. Alright man. Sounds good.

1:05:39

Thanks for going out on a limb with us. If this episode hit home, share it with someone who needs to hear it. Find us on Instagram, YouTube, and Facebook, and follow along for more. Until next time, keep your powder dry. I.