Episode 06 - Planning Laguna Beach: Smarter Permits, Stronger Code Enforcement, and the Future of AI in Community Development

Mayor Mark Orgill sits down with Community Development Director Matt Schneider for a focused discussion on the City’s planning, building, and code enforcement services. The conversation outlines current priorities, including permit streamlining, code compliance, and managing development pressures in a constrained coastal environment. Director Schneider explains the department’s long range objectives, with an emphasis on improving predictability, reducing processing times, and aligning development outcomes with the City’s policy framework. The episode also examines how emerging tools, including artificial intelligence, will be deployed to improve service delivery, enhance consistency in plan review, and provide residents and applicants with faster, more accessible information. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Well welcome to the mayor's podcast. I'm here today with uh Matt Schneider from Community Development, and um we're going to be discussing his uh department that he oversees and just ask him some of the questions related to the department. So welcome, Matt. Thank you for joining me. I appreciate it. So, first of all, why don't you just give us a bit of a background of everything that your department encompasses?

SPEAKER_01 0:24

Yeah, sure. So we cover um three core functions. We're the building department, the planning department, and code enforcement department. Um and through that, we're really interested in dealing with the built environment here in Laguna. So house remodels, uh opening a new business, those types of things. Uh the physical construction we review both from a planning perspective and then building, which is more the structural construction level to make sure it's built safely. Uh and then code enforcement, you know, we get a high volume of code enforcement complaints a year. We go out and investigate those, and if there's a violation, we file follow up with those.

SPEAKER_00 1:04

Yeah. Thank you for that. I mean, we got as we work our way through this, feel free to to if you need to deviate from one of my questions to make a point, feel free. Sure. Um so one of the things that we hear a lot about right now, and uh you hear from me from time to time, and by the way, I have a great amount deal of sympathy for your job, and I know you're trying very hard to get the department caught up, and and I I'll use I'll say uh reorganized. I don't know if that's a fair that's fair, a fair assessment. And I personally think you've been doing a great job, you and your team, so thank you for that. But still we have we have some backlogs and we have some things that you're trying to get caught up on. You want to spend a minute in helping the audience understand um the issue with backlogs?

SPEAKER_01 1:48

Yeah, sure. So, you know, when I inherited uh my position with the city and started doing an assessment, it was taking us around 60 days to turn around a typical planning application. And um the standard that we really want to be at and in compliance with best practices of the state is 30 days or less. Um so understandably, we're way we were way off the mark. And so, you know, we kind of had to dissect what we were doing and see if there was a way to get the backlog under control and obviously do something that was sustainable moving forward. And really what I found is there'd been a transition in staff, so we had a a relatively new team here. We have a really complex set of codes, so it it takes a while for a new staff member to become proficient, and you know, we just got backlogged. And then once once you're in that part, digging your yourself out becomes more complicated. Um, but we you know we really process mapped out everything we're doing. Uh we put together a lot of different tools. Um one just to get our staff all rowing in the same direction, but also, you know, some of them it was drinking from the fire hose. We put them right to work because we had a backlog, and honestly, I didn't feel in fairness to them they had the the best training that they could have. Um that effort's been really successful. Um, and it is a rare exception that we don't complete a planning application review uh 30 days or less, and there's usually some logical reason for that. Um but some other improvements we've made is we opened our Intergov online portal, which allows applicants to submit things online 24-7. Um and you know, there's a learning curve with that, both for the applicants and for staff. Overall, I find it is successful, but I still think we're not maximizing it. And and really what we're starting to find, because it's been in place for about a year now, is when people are applying online, they miss that face-to-face interaction where you can correct and say, hey, I need to see your structural calculations they're missing, or whatever the case may be. So we get a lot of incomplete applications submitted online. So before we could really do a meaningful review, there's a little bit of back and forth to make sure we have all the information we need to do our analysis. And so um that really points to we need to do a better job educating the applicants, um, and it's something we're actively working on. And I do think um that along with some other things we're doing behind the scenes is gonna make the online portal more efficient, and I think we'll see more and more people shift over to that. And then the last thing I'll mention is um building inspections. So we do about 14,000 building inspections a year, which is quite a lot for a city of this size. Um and we got backlogged, and it was a combination of we had some staff retired, uh, we had some staff that were injured and were out. Um, it's an incredibly difficult position to recruit in the state of California. Um during COVID, a lot of building plan checkers decided to retire out, or they preferred to do plan checks at their home in their living room rather than climb up in ladders. Um but I will say we we've gotten to a point where we're actually recruited from within. We found some people with comparable skill sets in our code enforcement department and our public works department, and we've been training from within and we're now fully staffed. And a few months ago, if you were to ask me, we were a few days behind. If you called for a building inspection, it would be a few days before we could get out. But now we're we're next day, which is great. So we're we're continuing to turn the ship around. I I always think we're got room for improvement. I think technology is gonna keep helping us along the way, but that's kind of a snapshot of where we are.

SPEAKER_00 5:48

And so I know that we've discussed bottlenecks, and by the way, I greatly appreciate the time that you've put into meeting uh with myself and and the architect community in in town, and really, you know, you're open to getting input and you know, which is a lot of times really criticism, right? Sure. And uh I know that that's not easy, but you've you've been great about it. You've you've taken it and and I think most of it's been delivered in in a very constructive way, and um so I'll I'll I will give that to our architectural community. Um they've been good to work with, in my opinion, anyway. Uh, when I'm in unless that they're just on their best behavior when I'm around. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 6:29

Then they're good they're a good group.

SPEAKER_00 6:31

Yeah, yeah. And so they're always bringing up, you know, the bottlenecks. So we talked about, you know, getting caught up, but is there a specific bottleneck right now? Um I mean there's a couple of things that I hear from time to time. I I think you heard last week I had a couple of emails that I shot off to Dave. Um and uh but can you s can you name a couple of bot bottlenecks that you see that there's some uh light at the end of the tunnel?

SPEAKER_01 6:56

Yeah, absolutely. I well I'll I'll point to the online portal. You know, right now we're about 50-50 in terms of applications coming in online versus people coming at the counter. The same staff is processing both, right? So the more efficient we get at that, the quicker we can turn everything around. Um and I do think we're gonna quickly get to a point where online submittals will be quicker and more efficient and hopefully reduce some of the traffic at our counter as well. So that'll make those interactions quicker just by the sheer volume being lower. Um so that's one thing. Um we are working actively on some some code updates. We have an efficiency ordinance that's gonna be coming forward to the council really soon in the next month or two that I think um will definitely help add some clarity and kind of remove a little bit of the bureaucracy, but I will say in like a safe way. One of the comments I get when people hear efficiency ordinances they think we're we're cutting corner for the sake of cutting corners. Uh we truly need to be efficient here. This is a very active uh community when it comes to development. Um and we can only sustain a certain amount of staff realistically and and keep it affordable to everyone and and timely. Um so um keeping our codes up to date and efficient and adding certainty to projects, it helps both sides of the counter. So you mentioned our architects. We have a whole host of fantastic architects in this community that really most of their business is clients in Laguna, right? Um But they're also always pushing to get the the most for their clients, which they should be, right? And these aren't these aren't cookie-cutter projects, these are steep hillside developments, bluff top lots, things fire impacts, there's a whole host of constraints they got to consider. Um so the more certainty and the more bureaucracy we could strip out of the process, the better. Um and so that's sort of the first phase where we're looking for just the really honestly low-hanging fruit kind of things. And then we're working on a comprehensive zoning code update in conjunction with a general plan update. That's gonna be a longer-term effort. It's gonna require a lot of engagement with the community uh and feedback. I will say it's important that we're we're not looking to revision the community. This is a built-out community. I think everyone understands what makes it special. I think that general plan already really captures the principles and values of the community. It's gonna be more of a reaffirmation of what the the vision is for the community moving forward, uh, rather than trying to re-rethink what what the future looks like. But then modernizing the general plan. It's been updated kind of piecemeal over time. And again, getting back to certainty, uh, the more streamlined and um clear we make it, it's easier for onboarding staff, it's easier for just general lay people in the community that want to understand there's a project in their neighborhood and what's this general plan policy about, right? Um, so that's an effort that's underway. That's a longer-term effort. It's gonna take a few years to do that, but that's something that we've we've just started this year.

SPEAKER_00 10:14

So I didn't have the general plan um written, a question regarding that, but I am going to bring it up just briefly. So as you know, Bob Whalen and myself are part of the ad hoc committee working with you on the comprehensive code update. And I'm sure we'll roll into the uh general plan update and the uh the rest of the um ordinance updating. So, because of my background and the experience that I have, I you know, and I've those of us who've been in town long enough could figure it out how to navigate our way through it the best we can, we can muddle through it. But I certainly am familiar with where all of the pitfalls are and things that can be improved. The way I look at the general plan, and and I'd be interested in your opinion, is so it's supposed to be our Bible, the community's Bible, right? And I feel like it doesn't get referenced enough because of the it's become I'll say complex. Uh I think that there are things that are in it that maybe shouldn't don't belong in it. I think that there are elements that are in it that should be a part of um a different document that could be updated easier and and so it'd be outside of the general plan, but still referenced, right? And um so and I by that I just I I think that it might be easier for the community to reference if we get it cleaned up and kind of reorganized. As a matter of fact, you showed us a sample several probably a couple of months ago now, and it was you just kind of gave uh gave it to Bob and I, and and it was just a kind of a sample of how you were going to organize it. I was very impressed, and it just is like, oh man, this is exactly how we need to do it. And I believe you were going there, so there's what we have seven elements in the general plan, correct?

SPEAKER_01 12:03

Correct.

SPEAKER_00 12:04

Yes. So and your your idea was to apply that same structure to all every element, right? Correct.

SPEAKER_01 12:11

So you really if you if you look at best practices for more contemporary general plans, which by the way should be updated about every 10 years or so, right? Um we haven't we we've historically done it element by element or chapter by chapter, right? So this will be the first time we're really looking at it comprehensively, and what you're referring to is like creating a uniform architecture for the document, right? So as you become familiar with using that architecture, it be j it just makes using the document that much easier. There's consistency throughout. Uh our general plan is really well written, but it was written chapter by chapter by a subset of community members and people on staff at that time, right? So the the voice, so to speak, is different from chapter to chapter. Not substantially, but they're there are differences, right? Uh so getting to that uniform point is gonna be a benefit, I think, for the community. I also think uh a general plan doesn't have to be an exhaustive, you know, thousand-word document. The more succinct we make it, um, I think better. Um again, like you said, it's the Bible. It's really spelling out the policies. This is what we stand for as a community. Right. The zoning ordinance is how we implement that, right? And that uh will need to be more detailed and and exhaustive. But um so that's the goal. I think there's a lot of benefits outside of just the obvious ones we're talking about right now. Um state law requires that we you know update certain things in our safety element in order to compete for certain grants. They're looking for certain policies within our general plan that just for lack of having updated in a in a while, we haven't had a chance to do. Um the housing element is coming up. Um, so that is an element that's gonna require a lot of work. I always try to take the opportunity to let people know every cycle the housing element gets harder and harder, right? Um I like to use the analogy, it's like squeezing a balloon, right? The state the state's gonna keep squeezing the balloon and telling us as a community that we need to zone for more housing, and it's up to us to decide where that balloon squeezes to. And it's not easy, right?

SPEAKER_00 14:25

No, it's not. We'll we'll meet again, you and I, and have a discussion about that. Uh I don't know if you've heard me speak of this lately, and our general plan in the open space and conservation element refers to resource protection documents um just kind of as uh aspiration, aspirationally. And I'm thinking that if we can get to the point where we can actually create those documents and and accumulate the data needed to support um, you know, some robust documents that I'm hoping um remember I'm an optimist, so that we could influence um HCD, Sacramento, and when as we develop our um housing element in the future, they could understand that, you know, yes, we we understand that there's a need for housing, but we also um Laguna Beach also has responsibility to um you know be the stewards of our our several of our uh environmental um designations that we have in town. And uh, you know, it's just it's uh we have a lot on our plate for a small community as far as just juggling all of the different things this is a very constrained community, and it's not one size fits all when it comes to the state housing laws.

SPEAKER_01 15:39

You look at each one case by case.

SPEAKER_00 15:41

And you know, you mentioned you made a a comment a moment ago and you said rowing in the same direction, and that's really what I'm trying to um get the community to start doing. And I know that we'll never all agree, nor should we, on everything, but I I'd like us to at least start rowing in the same direction. I think there's enough we can agree on as a community to where we can, you know, keep moving these things forward and uh just so things don't slip bias, get biased, and we don't fall behind. Because when we I think that we have fallen behind as a city myself, as far as just progression in some of our departments, and we just haven't kept up uh to the best we could have. So I it'd be nice to get caught up and then stay caught up, and I think that it'll make us less susceptible to you know something getting biased, and we end up with a situation that we're all unhappy with. Um but we can get into that later. Um the one of the things I do talk to the community about, and you know, again, I'm used to this. I've been around the city a long time uh processing my own projects. It's just the uh understanding what goes into these staff reports. And you know, I look at them now that I'm on council, especially if we get um uh an appeal, and I think God, this just must take somebody weeks to put this staff report together. And I don't think there's a complete understanding of just what goes into creating each staff report.

SPEAKER_01 17:06

What's your Yeah, it's it's it's a big undertaking. Um you know, at any given time uh the community development staff is working on at least 30 drafts of staff reports that are going to either Planning Commission, DRB, admin DRB, or something to the city council, right? Um and we're our lead time is weeks and weeks ahead. Um but we need a defensible document. And what I mean by that is we're we're doing a disservice to the applicant if we don't cover everything that needs to be analyzed in our codes, our laws, CEQA, et cetera. Uh we live in a litigious community or just environment in general, not just our community. That's just the way of the world, right? Um you know, when I I've got gray hairs. When I started this a long time ago, you could get away with uh a much more informal sort of handshake agreements, it, you know, design review boards, et cetera. It that's not the world we live in anymore. Um so yeah, we spend quite a bit of time going through staff reports. Um we have a number of findings, not only for our local ordinance, but people have to remember most of the cities in the coastal zone. So there's several um state-manded coastal findings we have to make, and then of course CEQA, we're all subject to. So it it's quite a process.

SPEAKER_00 18:23

I I do see a time um that you know we all hear about AI nowadays and how it's gonna, you know, change the world and and uh be what's your what's your sense of the impact on the uh department and um as far as uh AI is concerned and technology in general?

SPEAKER_01 18:42

Yeah, so AI is probably one of the most just exciting things in general, no matter what field you're in. And I think if you're not open to it and as an organization and not considering how it can make you more efficient, you're already behind, right? So I'm constantly, and other staff here are constantly looking at AI tools. I demo probably on average one or two AI products a month. And what I will say is every month or every time I demo, it's incrementally getting better. Might be a competitor to someone else, and I really think we're on the cusp where we're gonna see some programs that are really gonna make some pretty big strides for for what we do in development in terms of reviewing projects. Uh, one of the things is, you know, I mentioned we do this back and forth at the beginning to make sure when someone applies online it has everything that that's needed there, right? Um there are AI tools that are very close to the point of being able to read you know construction level documents and um making sure it has all the relevant information so that when it gets to a plan checker, they're just they're doing their job, they're making sure it meets California code, right? And they're doing that analysis. Just just that alone would be a game changer. That would that would shave weeks off of some people's review just because there's that back and forth. But even um even something as simple as writing emails, uh, we're constantly encouraging staff to explore a AI. I mean it has to be your own words, your own analysis, but uh we're high volume. Uh I deal with several hundred emails a day typically. Uh and so responding to those quickly, I can dictate and get my message out quickly. And for me, it's been a game changer.

SPEAKER_00 20:34

Yeah, I can imagine. And I so I poke around and and try to track it as as as far as its impact for this specific um, you know, your your department is concerned, and um construction related, building related um its impact. So I I believe that and there's some companies that are currently working on it. I know they're making huge strides, especially when it comes to plan check and um you know just zoning and uh planning and building plan checks. So I think they're on their way. Um so it's gonna be very interesting to follow. So did you have any other issues that you'd like to share with the community to help the community better understand what's happening behind the scenes?

SPEAKER_01 21:16

Um great, great open-ended question. So um, you know, um I will say, you know, we have a really dedicated staff here. They're really busy, uh, but you're never bothering us. And uh we strive to get back to everyone as soon as we can. Our policy is within one business day. We don't always hit that mark, but that's the standard we're always fighting for. But I encourage anyone if you're getting ready to do a project, either a minor addition or re-roof, to something really substantial, reach out to us. The best thing you can do as a resident is start talking to us early, and we can help guide you through the process. I promise it's not as scary as people make it out to be. Uh, but again, we live in a we live In a constrained community with lots of different we didn't even talk about like historic or geotechnical issues. There's issues that can come up uh uh that may not be readily known by a property owner. So it's good to do some due diligence early. We're happy to do it, and it and it almost always will save you time in the long run.

SPEAKER_00 22:19

Well, I I appreciate this conversation that we're having today, and hopefully this is just the first of of many, and we can get into some of the other details. Um let's let's you know get an idea of where the community is at, some of the response. I'm sure I'll I'll get some questions um thrown at me and uh we can just kind of uh take it as it goes.

SPEAKER_01 22:39

That sounds great. I'm happy to dive in wherever we need to.

SPEAKER_00 22:42

Great, I really appreciate it, Matt. Thank you very much. And thanks everybody for joining us today, and uh we'll look forward to seeing you next time.