How to be a gracious guest - Ep 4

Ariel Kanter joins us in this episode where we cover a bunch of things but the biggest takeaway is how to be a gracious guest. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:03

Welcome back to Shabbat Club, where I teach you how to host without the anxiety, and a part of hosting is also how to be a good guest. So I've brought my favorite guest, Ms. Ariel Cantor, to hang out with us today and make Shabbat dinner together.

SPEAKER_02 0:20

I'm Ariel Cantor.

unknown 0:22

I live really close to Micah.

SPEAKER_02 0:24

We are food writer friends, and I'm really excited to be here to cook along with Micah. And I also love posting, I love cooking, and I also really love being a guest. Perfect.

SPEAKER_01 0:36

We're gonna make so when I asked Arielle what she might want to make, she said a big bowl of delicious.

unknown 0:42

That is true.

SPEAKER_01 0:44

And I had to think about it a little bit. But Arielle has a really great substack called Ral's Rex, and she posts her dinner in her lap, and it's typically a big bowl of deliciousness in your lap every night. So we are going to make one second buckwheat. No. So we're going to make a roasted cabbage steak. We're gonna add some chickpeas to that so they get nice and crispy. Then I thought we should make a little tahina ranch, then maybe some breadcrumbs to go over top. So we're gonna prep that. So I'm just gonna prep our cabbage. Oh my gosh. So I've been reading and seen that cabbage is the vegetable of 2026. It definitely is. Do you feel like this is in the like a professionally founded statement, or do you think this is just cabbage farmers being like, no, that's us this year?

SPEAKER_02 1:36

No, I don't know. I'm sure farmers are delighted that people are like really into cabbage, but I think like I don't know if who started it, but I'm I'm definitely thrilled about it. Um I mean it's healthy, it's beautiful. Like I have been loving cabbage for a really long time, so I'm I'm just really happy about it.

SPEAKER_01 1:56

I'm not mad about it either. I feel like it's an understun vegetable, first of all, like stunning.

SPEAKER_02 2:01

Yeah, and I've like you can eat it raw, you can have it roasted, you can steam it, you can saute it. Like, there's so many ways to enjoy cabbage, so I think it's just it's the perfect thing, and like you can also have it hot and cold and room temperature, which is a really nice thing if you're roasting because like you don't have to worry about it sort of like cooling down and having it exactly room temperature.

SPEAKER_01 2:21

I'm gonna pop this in my oven to just preheat a little. Yeah, but on the note of room temp, I usually will create my menus based on things I can serve at room temp because I don't want to have to be putzing around the kitchen when someone's puts it! I don't want to putz. I'm just gonna salt the cabbage before putting it in the oven. We're gonna put it on a hot sheet pan so we can start to get that golden bits on the bottom. We'll roast it for about 30-ish minutes, flipping halfway through. Um, so Rel, tell me what's your favorite way to cabbage? What's your favorite thing to do with it?

SPEAKER_02 2:55

Well, it's so funny because I feel like as Jews, we like grew I was I grew up like we definitely had stuffed cabbage. Like the OG way of like having cabbage was like stuffed cabbage, so we had it, it was kind of like soft and steamed and filled with meat. It had that like sweet and sour kind of vibe, which is obviously amazing and satisfying, but I think like it's not sexy. It's it's not, it's like ugly delish. It's it is ugly. It is, but I think my favorite way now is I definitely like kind of just like chopping it up and having it in a really good salad with a lot of like oh my god, I'm a lefty, and so opening stuff is actually really specific. So, um, like I'm opening it backwards.

SPEAKER_01 3:39

I'm also a lefty though, so maybe I've just it could just be a bad one.

SPEAKER_02 3:43

No, no, this is actually like a difficult thing for me to do.

SPEAKER_01 3:47

And so do you want a new job?

SPEAKER_02 3:48

Or do you feel like you can Can I tell you I have working in kitchen trauma of opening cans because uh I was like handed some like enormous, it's literally not opening.

SPEAKER_00 4:02

Trauma. Do we need a minute? Do you want to sit down? Do you need to sit down at the corner?

SPEAKER_02 4:07

So I actually can I tell you Ralph's breath. Yeah, do it. Okay. Ralph's breath. Okay. Um, I actually bought one of those can opers where you can press a button and put it in there.

SPEAKER_01 4:17

I don't think it's in.

SPEAKER_02 4:18

Yeah, you have to open it righty. So this is probably what you do is you open it right. How do we do it right? So you probably are opening it like as a righty.

SPEAKER_01 4:29

So I bought wait, I have always just thought that can opers all can openers were just all bad.

SPEAKER_02 4:37

But I think it says you're a left key. Because I'm also I mean I actually bought a button press can opener because of my like kitchen trauma where I was handed, you know, those big restaurant-sized cans, and all of the you know, the guys in the kitchen were like, okay, open these because that's like a normal kitchen job. And they gave me a can opener and I couldn't open them. Oh and it was I mean it was mortifying. And they all just stared at me and I couldn't open them for like a very long time, and so you know, I and that's why you're right. And that's why.

SPEAKER_01 5:10

That's why neither of us work in in that uh commercial. Yeah, so they did it, but even still that's wrong.

SPEAKER_02 5:17

So um as a gift. The next time um Micah hosts me, I'll be bringing her one of those automatic hand openers. That is so funny. Anyway, I like to have cabbage raw, um like in a raw crunchy salad. Okay. Um, but actually recently I had a really good um salmon and cabbage um picata. It was a New York Times recipe. Okay. And you steam the salmon on top of cabbage with like a mustard picata sauce, and that was amazing. So it was steamed, but it was actually still a little bit crunchy because it was a kind of quick steaming because the salmon cooks really quickly. I love that. Um, so I think there are because people are like newly obsessed with cabbage, there people are getting very creative about how they're using it, um, which is really, really fun. But I love this idea of this cabbage steak um getting it like crispy on top, and like there's so many ways.

SPEAKER_01 6:13

And it's so fun. It's a main dish without feeling like you need anything but just a delicious vegetable, which is how I like to make food. So, because veggies are delicious. So when you are guesting, I often get people saying, What can I bring? What is something that what what do you as a guest like to be told because I'm a bad, I'll be like, oh nothing, don't worry about it. Or if you feel like you're rich, or what do you like to I'll ask, what do you like to bring? Or oh I guess you could bring flowers or a drink or a toy for buckwheat, the dog. And sometimes I will say that too. So what when someone when someone's hosting you, what do you enjoy bringing?

SPEAKER_02 6:55

Yeah, I mean, I think as like a as part of like REL's Rex, a lot of my rex are about gifting, and I always think about like the person I'm bringing a gift to. Like, what do they need? So I think about Micah, and like when you're entertaining, you don't really need food. Like, I don't need to bring like a bowl of food, like you don't need an hors d'oeuvre, right? So I don't need to bring food, but I could think like, oh, Micah might be really interested in like a cool new ingredient, right? So like maybe I could go to like a specialty store and bring you something. I always think flowers are a really nice thing to bring, but if I know that like a million other people are gonna be bringing their flowers like that, maybe I wouldn't bring flowers, or if a lot of people are last minute, they'll go to the grocery store and bring flowers. So say I'm planning ahead, something I might do because I like planning ahead, is you know, I know that you're an entertainer and you love hosting a lot. I might go online and buy um like a really beautiful serving dish to bring that over for you because like serving dishes are so like personal and wonderful. So, you know, I really like Jack and Delphi. I like um there's a website called Maison Flanner, and they have like beautiful ceramics, or even going on like Etsy, there are a lot of really like independent ceramicists who make beautiful serving dishes that are aren't expensive but that are just gorgeous. So that's like a really nice, like yeah, like personal thing that you can bring to someone. If you like kind of understand their taste, that can be a nice, yeah, a nice thing to bring. You want to bring them something like super random that doesn't align with their taste. So this is for like if you're friends with someone. If you don't know them and you don't know their style and you don't know anything about them, flowers is always a great thing.

SPEAKER_01 8:38

As long as you're not allergic, I feel like I always have to make a caveat of like I am allergic to carnations, first of all, they're cheap. So don't cheap out on me. And I'm also allergic to carnations, and I've had like um bouquets come to the house and have to pick up all the carnations and they're like sneezing and watering my eyes, so never bring me carnations. But it is it's a question that I always get, and even when I go somewhere, if they don't ask me to make a dish, I'm always like I'm I'm somewhere too up. I'll be like, okay, so I know that their husband likes a dark beer, so maybe I'll get him like some craft beer and something or something for their kids, or I often buy pet gifts. Yeah, that's really because it's it's especially for someone like me where I have I like control, and when someone's at my house, I can control that situation. Sometimes I don't want anyone else's food in my house.

SPEAKER_02 9:29

Yeah, that's that's totally fair. And also, like maybe like a cool set of matches. Like I think there are so many pretty boxed matches these days. Like, you know, that's a nice inexpensive gift, too, right? And also, like, I worry about bringing someone a candle, like if there's kind of like a weird smell or something, but like cool matches are awesome, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:47

Especially for Shabbat, do that like a like a duo of Shabbat candles that are nice, like that's such a nice Shabbat gift because then you could use it together, and you also don't have to bring anything. I think just being a good guest is just being friendly and complimenting the food, even if it's bad.

SPEAKER_02 10:04

Yeah. Or like a card. Also, like writing cards is such a lost art, like a little even sending a note afterwards. So, like, if you don't bring anything, that is totally fine, just bringing yourself in a good vibes. But like sending a card after and saying thank you for the invite. I just touched the microwave again. Um loves it, she can't get her hands off of it. Like sending a card saying thank you is like such a kind and wonderful thing. Um we do that enough. We I definitely have never done that, so like I should take my advice.

SPEAKER_01 10:31

But you could, but I could. You know you could. Yeah. Um while you go, I'm just gonna open up my tahini. This is what Adina Sessor taught me last weekend. So when we have our tahini, if you want it to be a squeeze bottle, then that is.

SPEAKER_02 10:42

Oh my gosh!

SPEAKER_01 10:42

And then you just squeeze it out, only for a runny tahini. That's genius. I know, right? She did it, and I was like, that's why she's the queen. That's that's I know. Just to legit um my outfit for it. Because we're so excited. Um I want to break this garlic and do a lemon, and it's gonna be some lemon ducks in there and I've gonna pops up.

SPEAKER_02 11:03

Thank you for giving me a task, I can actually do.

SPEAKER_01 11:05

No problem. If you don't like that task, I can give you another one. I want everyone to feel comfortable.

SPEAKER_00 11:09

I do, I do.

SPEAKER_01 11:11

Um, I I think I love the the gift thing, and it it's really nice to do that, but I think I would never expect a gift from anyone, but when someone comes up and I told them to bring that thing, then they bring something small and meaningful. That's that's so so special, and it means that like they really took the time to think about who who they were going to see type of week. Yeah. Um, which is which is really nice.

SPEAKER_02 11:37

Oh, another nice thing that I actually learned from Alexis Poshnick, who is a substack internet friend, is like to bring ice over if someone is like a big cocktail person and you can't cook if you just like aren't don't really know the people. If if you're just like, I want to bring something that I don't know what. Bringing ice over can be very useful. Not everyone has an ice machine. Ice can be nice if they're like trying to keep stuff cold. Like, I don't think anyone would ever say no to ice.

SPEAKER_01 12:05

That's a great idea.

SPEAKER_02 12:06

Like that is just a really, really good tip. Um, yeah. So thank you, Alexis, for that.

SPEAKER_01 12:11

I love that. And in my freezer, it's so packed. I had to take the ice maker out, so I had to get more space, and so I never have ice. Yeah. Um, and I have an ice maker in our lower level, but I'm always too lazy to fill it with water, which is just who I am. Um, so having someone bring ice would be really good.

SPEAKER_02 12:30

Yeah, just like in case of emergency, you're never gonna like say, Oh no, I don't want that. No, exactly. I love that. That smells so good.

SPEAKER_01 12:38

I love deal. Oh, it smells good. Birds make everything better. And then another question is so you also love to host. What's your go-to host meal? And do you have one?

SPEAKER_02 12:48

Uh the thing is, like, I just love trying new things. Like, I think my favorite thing as a host is just to experiment, and I know that's so funny because I think a lot of hosts have regular things that they can rely on, but I'm just excited to try new stuff. Like, I I see every chance to entertain as a chance to experiment and delight people. Okay, to squeeze that out. Like, I don't get to host as much as I want to just because we move to the suburbs and we don't have as many friends as we did when we lived in the city. And like I just when people come over, I just want to try new things. Um so I don't even really have a go-to because I'm just I just get excited to try.

SPEAKER_01 13:34

That's fair. Um and then you so Ariel and I met because I was at a food conference and I was speaking to a woman and she asked where I lived, and I told her where because it's safe to tell strangers where you live. And she was like, You have to meet Ariel Cantor. So I was like, perfect, put us in contact. Um yeah, yeah, let's do it. And so she did, and it turns out I had been reading some of Arielle's writing work about local restaurants, anyway, so I already knew the name, and then we met and we bonded over us both living in the suburbs and being Food Writers and living six months away from each other, and also living six minutes away from each other, um, which is amazing because in the suburbs that doesn't really happen. So when we we saw each other, I don't know when it was, probably a month or two ago, and we went to this amazing farm about a 20-minute drive from us, and you joined their CSA, which is like a community shared agriculture box. I wanted to, but because I never know what I have to make for work, it's not it just makes no sense. So I just get to like live vicariously through what's in yours.

SPEAKER_02 14:41

And I have been sharing eggs because I think it's an enormous amount of eggs.

SPEAKER_01 14:45

It's a little bit except too much lemon. You need something else in there. A little bit of sweetness. I like that. I'm gonna add a little maple syrup to it. Um and so I've really been enjoying watching you. Oh god, who put this back in the fridge?

SPEAKER_02 15:02

My husband would put that back in the fridge. Maple syrup, the most like most cherished thing.

SPEAKER_01 15:08

Nothing back, nothing in there. Um, this is clean water. I just was too lazy to find anything else that was a clean cup. Um, so you've been getting these community shared agriculture boxes, and I I used to do that during COVID when I wasn't working at like writing as many recipes so I had the ability to be a bit more flexible in my day-to-day cooking. But I would love to know when you get a box and you're like, okay, so here's like a chopped box of ingredients. How do you start deciding how you're gonna make the make something with it because it's you and your husband, so you and you get it every week, so you need to be able to eat all these things throughout the week. So tell me about that process.

SPEAKER_02 15:50

It's just like the most glorious thing. I mean, we have a really unique situation because it's just us, um, and also my husband is very indecisive, so we basically made this rule in our house, but I never asked him what he wants for dinner because it ended up creating too much um like indecision for him. So, like, I just make whatever I want and he eats it. I love that rule. Um like we we decided it was actually creating like too much stress. Wow, and he and I cook and he does the dishes, and that's just like our life, and he I'm like I'm lucky because I love to cook and he likes my food, like it's just this is how it works for us. Um, so it's really a matter of of how I I want to put things together. So like I open the box and like it's just like such a blessing. It's so fun, and also it's not just it's not just vegetables, so I don't feel like super overloaded with a ton of veggies where I'm like, oh my god, how does this all fit together? Like there's bread and there's eggs and there's stuff from the you know the kitchen, so it actually feels really balanced. Um, but I do definitely I feel like instantly inspired because this is a lot of stuff that I'm not necessarily buying all the time. There are like like Daikon radishes, which I'm definitely not buying regularly, and now I'm like, oh my gosh, what should I do with these? I'm so excited. I love Daikon. Me too, like I'm so excited. So now I'm like, I'm getting them raw, I'm shaving them into salads, like I'm sauteing them, I'm like I'm pigling them, like I'm doing all these different things, and it's you know, I'm all of a sudden diving into cookbooks, you know. Henny McKinnon has Tender Heart, which is just such a glorious cookbook, and you can actually go in and say, Okay, mushrooms, and she has a whole section on mushrooms. And so last night, what did I do? She has a um miso mushroom remote with polenta, yeah, and you know, there was polenta in the CSA box, and then King Trumpet mushrooms in the CSA box, so I like made that and it was wonderful, and I rarely follow recipes and literally I kind of just fussed with stuff on my own, and it was a really fun experience going into a cookbook, making a recipe and doing it. Um, sounds amazing.

SPEAKER_01 18:08

It it feels like an unbelievable luxury because I know other people, you know, when you have kids, you really have to accommodate their tastes a little bit more, yeah, or picky husbands, but honestly, stop asking mine what he wants because if there her uh Ariel and her husband are coming over on Saturday, I decided that I might just do takeouts because I'm tired. But a couple nights ago, um, I was like, what should I make for dinner for Ariel and Gabby? And my husband was giving me all these terrible ideas. He's like, you should make Thai food, and I was like, I don't want to, you should make this, and just like throwing out different countries in the world.

SPEAKER_02 18:48

It's like the choice, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:49

The choice is exhausting, it was exhausting, and I was like, all of your answers are wrong, actually, none of these are right. Yeah. Because I w I wanted him to say we should do takeout, but I was like, I can't, because I have this like thing about hosting and I want everything to be homemade, but then I decided that like no, it's okay. I know you enough, I know you well enough to know that you know you know I could with more time, but unfortunately the the week is just not in my favor. But it's I maybe I need to stop asking my husband what I should be making because he's gonna be rotten no matter what he says, which is just like a husband.

SPEAKER_02 19:28

And also just because we can cook doesn't mean that we have to. Like, I think that's why sometimes I eat cereal for dinner. Oh like it is the best to have cereal for dinner. As much as I love cooking, like cereal nights are the best, and I have absolutely no guilt. And like if I want to have cereal and Gabby doesn't want something else, like he can absolutely make something else for himself, but like I love cereal.

SPEAKER_01 19:56

I when I'm home alone and I'll like feed Ari. So I have a couple of them. Okay. Um, first of all, I'm just making a little everything bagel, like breadcrumbs to put on top because I like a crunchy bit. Um when I'm home alone, I am having sometimes popcorn for dinner with a lot of olive oil and salt. So I love olive oil in my popcorn, like a really spicy one. I'm having a big bowl, like I'm making two batches of popcorn. I mean a separate slice of how is it in the big yeah. Exactly, yeah. Um, or sometimes I'm I will do a lot of pancake situations, but my husband Josh doesn't like cam tuna, or I do. And so sometimes I make myself like just a big bowl of tuna. And eat it with crackers. Right. Yeah, so you know what? Sometimes you just gotta you gotta do what you gotta do. Listen to your heart. You gotta listen to your heart, but more often than not, it's reality TV, like a dating show, and a big bowl of popcorn. And everyone's like, Oh, are you having wine? I'm like, no, I'm having Diet Coke, popcorn, and then like a small bowl of chocolate chips. Oh, you can try to sleep. You gotta give the body what the body wants for diet coke at night, just a little caffeine to really make sure I don't sleep, my popcorn, so much salt that I'm so bloated, I can barely get out of bed the next day. Um, and that's my that's what I want.

SPEAKER_02 21:23

I love that so much.

SPEAKER_01 21:25

Yeah, it's sometimes you just or cereal. I also have a big cereal growth. Yeah, but that's like my morning thing. I love I love that. Okay, I'm gonna take these out so that we can flip them. That sounds great.

SPEAKER_02 21:36

It smells amazing in here. Like I love when the the everything seasoning gets really toasty. Oh, yeah, I get some tongs.

SPEAKER_01 21:44

So these guys are starting to do their thing. They've gotten nice and soft. Oh, maybe they steamed a little bit more than I wanted them to, but I'm just gonna crank the heat quite a bit to make sure that they get nice and tender, as well as a little bit of golden on there. I love. Crispy chickpeas.

SPEAKER_02 22:02

I know. Like I'm always tossing them in the um air fryer. My favorite thing. So I don't have like a physical air fryer, but I have a toaster oven with an air fry setting, which I feel like is the secret. I use that more than my oven. I use it probably every night. Yeah. So like I don't actually not technically air frying, like I'm just using it as a really powerful conduction oven. So like I'll put my like tofu, all my veggies, like everything in there. I use it to like reheat things, put it in like a little, it's like a smaller sheet pan with a little tin foil, all the food, olive oil, put it in and just crank it to air fry. Easy. And it makes everything so crispy.

SPEAKER_01 22:46

I have one of those too, but I keep it in the garage. But it's a lifesaver, especially when it's hot out. And I want to make something and I don't want to heat up the house, or if I'm like, I've brought it to do events, or when I have too many things going on, it's nice to have that little oven and it's so powerful and it keeps soaked. I know it's insane. It is magic, but I love that.

SPEAKER_02 23:06

Um, that looks amazing.

SPEAKER_01 23:11

Stunning. I know, that's the best part. You could also broil it if you want it to be crispier, and and in retrospect, I should have used a bigger pan because they touched a little bit too much, so something steamed a little bit, but that's okay. Yeah, um, what we can do. So I'm just gonna put this here. So now we can plate it up. Okay. So this is a dish I think would be really nice at root time, honestly. Oh yeah. I think most veggie dishes would do really well at root time.

SPEAKER_02 23:40

Ooh, I love that.

SPEAKER_01 23:42

Thank you so much. Before I was a mother, I was a I used to do pottery all the time. Oh yeah, did you make that? Yeah, so I used to make most of my plates and props. And I loved doing hand building and all the organic pieces. Luckweed. Do you want to go outside? And then I stopped doing it because I didn't have time, and I was really afraid that like the the glaze and like the get like the dust particles couldn't have been good for me when I was pregnant. So I stopped. But I would love to find somewhere up here to do it again because I really miss it. I used to go with a friend and we would go like three times a week to do ceramics.

SPEAKER_02 24:30

I would love to do ceramics if you should do that.

SPEAKER_01 24:32

I think the art center has ceramic stuff. Okay. Um, and I like hand building, I was never good at the wheel. Okay. And I'm just gonna put half of them on here. And it was just so therapeutic, and I like that I could make something functional that I would actually use versus like any other art class. I make like an ugly painting that sits in that sits in a closet to to dye a slow dye.

unknown 24:57

And then you're gonna be able to do that.