Absa Cape Epic 2026 | Stage 4

Stage 4: A day of crashes and new winners

Join journalist Mike Finch and race commentator Max Cluer as they discuss all the action from Stage 4 of the Absa Cape Epic. From race-defining crashes to new winner in the women’s race this was a day of high drama. Plus we meet the last Lion, John Gale and Hannele Stey, the only two riders to have completed every stage of every Absa Cape Epic.

Transcript

SPEAKER_06 0:08

Welcome to stage number four of the 2026 Absicape Epic and uh it has been as it has been throughout this event quite a good day of racing. And I know that there are many people that are in this uh competition and in this race that are not racing for the top of the leaderboard, and we're going to show you some of those very special people later on in the show. But uh it has been yet again a stage which is absolutely enthralling to watch, and some surprises, but also some if some of the stage and and the overall being being uh affected by some some trashes today, which really did change the complexion of those top positions.

SPEAKER_07 0:42

You know, Mike, uh what I do is I use my phone, and you can see me scrolling through it because I use my phone to sort of keep me up to date with what's going on, and and you're taking screenshots and screen grabs, and there's profiles and there's results, and there's everything going on. And today I'm just scrolling through my there's so much news that has come across the chatter today. Um what a day. I mean, great integrating, um just a proper day of mountain biking. That they say that Lurkop, which means to look out point, was some of the best single track they've ridden, and some of the most beautiful single track ridden. Um we talk about the men's race today, just so many riders in it, so much carnage at the beginning. We saw Mark Pritson breaking a handlebar, we saw Casey South sitting in the top five with Fabian Robinsteiner, um broken uh collarbone. Um, you know, these are guys uh won one yesterday, and others are in the top five on the GC, so they're up, you know, and this is what it's all about connecting consistency of eight days together. But the men's race just absolutely exploded.

SPEAKER_06 1:44

Well, let's talk about the women's race first, because that was probably the news of the day. And that was won by the She Sens Foundation team of Kate Courtney and Gretzia Seboldt. And it's the first stage they've won this week because every single stage before this has been won by the Candice Bill Alexander Keller team of Thomas Mix and Sabi Sabi. And it was one of those races where there was some tactical maneuvering needed for them to get the stage when slightly controversial because Alexander Keller was a little bit uh, I wouldn't say she was happy about the result. They want they wanted to win the stage, even though they lead in the GC. But maybe you could just explain how what they actually did in their last five, ten kilometers, which kind of created the enough separation for them to win the stage today.

SPEAKER_07 2:23

I think what is exciting about the racing today is we had four teams in it, pretty much all the way to close the end. Unfortunately, Rosa van Duren uh from the above BHA Fisher Tabin's going down. Um she's out of the race, which means Various now also out of the race, but the four teams were all together in there as well. The two Haleys from uh Kemp Champ Honeycomb, they were really, really good today. And we know with Hailey Preen that she gets stronger and stronger. We saw how she took control of the uh African jersey last year, the Abbas African uh jersey last year with Bianca Hoare, and and we see how good she is in the later stages. And tomorrow, which is a queen stage, is certainly going to suit them. But it came down again to the top two teams, and and we know how dominant both Candace and Alessandra have been. And you must remember that these two know how to win regularly, which means second is not an option. So they put in absolutely everything today, and they got beaten on the line by an untested team and an untested partnership, Greta Siebald and Kate Courtney. News from the front of the race was that Kate and Greta said to each other during the ride, if we win today, we're donating our prize money, which is 10,000 Rand, to our charities. And and they'd both said that that just gave them that extra bit of fire in the sprinter.

SPEAKER_06 3:35

Yeah, so what was interesting about what happened is that as they came off the top of the UFO club climb, which was probably the biggest test of the day today, there were climbs before that, but it kind of there was quite a big group going into that UFO climb, including the the top four or five teams. But as they went up that climb, it was becoming apparent that these top two teams which have dominated this week were going to be in the mix for the stage win. And as they came down the other side, and we'll talk about what happened to third place, but let's just talk about the first two. It was it was Kate Courtney and Gretz-Servalt who decided that the best tactic was to get Greta Servald to go down the track and for Kate Courtney to kind of hell hold back and hold up the team behind them, which was Candiceville and Anazondekella. And you'll see on some of the footage that we watched on the live feed, and I'm sure you'll see it on the highlights, um, Gretzer was literally probably 30 seconds to a minute down the track. It happened on a number of occasions, they came, they brought them back, but eventually at the end she got the separation, which meant that when she crossed the finishing line right close to the right close to uh at the end of the race, she had enough of a gap for then the only person that um Kate Courtney had to beat was at least one of the team got to that. She ended up beating both of them and they won the stage. And that's kind of how you've got to play it because let's face it, we're dealing with professional athletes here, and winning is everything. Even though Thomas Max and Sabi Sabi have are the leaders in the GC, they want to win every single stage, and today that unbroken record was broken.

SPEAKER_07 4:57

But it also shows the confidence from Kate Courtney. I think to do that, we've seen it done before, we've seen it in both the men's and the women's races before, where you send someone up the road on that last piece of single check, maybe a little bit of break checking, maybe a bit of holding back, but then you have to back yourself because it can go wrong. It can go horribly wrong. So confidence is key, uh, a little bit of extra motivation, maybe with the donation of that prize money. But the the joy on Kate and Greta's faces of the finish line was spectacular. Fantastic, fantastic.

SPEAKER_06 5:26

And what was quite impressive is that Candace Little, who was uh kind of magnanimous because she did accept that this is racing and this is what you've got to do, and she just said that what's amazing for her is that Kate Courtney was in the front of them for literally the whole of the last 10 kilometers, and she still had the power to outsplit them in the finish line. So she was quite impressed with the way Kate Courtney actually did everything, which is incredible. If you're listening to us right now, you probably have the sun in the background. This is the final riders coming in across the line at the moment. Our commentators uh Paul Kay and uh Joanne Murphy are bringing them home, and I think this is the last you can see the hyenas about to come in, so that's why you're hearing the noise in the background. But uh so this is kind of this is this is the moments where you're the back of the market's getting. Very cool. Let's take a quick look at the GC. Well, let's talk a little bit about uh Rosa van Duren because I think it's it's it's it's a sad story, but it also tells a story about the what the Absolap Epic's about. And Rosa van Duren and her partner Viru Laws are lying in third place overall at the start of the stage. They're in a huge competition with Hayley Preen and Addie Smith from Chem Camp Huntingcombe, and they are literally locked together at the top, top of that UFO climb. Loza and uh Van Dun have got a bit of a gap. Now they know they have to make a count in the descent. The pressure of that is they're gonna try and eke out just a second or two, maybe a minute, maybe 30 seconds, whatever it is, they're gonna push. Rosa Van Dun goes around a left-hand turn, the front wheel comes out and she falls, but she falls hard. She immediately gets back on her bike and she starts grinding again. Jindin's still going. But then it becomes apparent that there's a lot of damage that's been done. She stops on the side of the track, she's broken her tooth out of her mouth, she's got a huge gash in her left knee, race over. It was a bad moment for her, obviously beneficial for Haley Penny and Hadley Smith, although they don't want to be able to be in the top three because of that. But it just showed that once you get to the stage of the Absicab epic, fatigue comes in. Yeah, that drama can happen. Even amongst the best riders in the world, they can make I wouldn't say it was a mistake because that particular part of the trail was very, very slippery, treacherous. We're talking about the men's race, how that changed it. But it was one of those moments in the epic which changed the face of that top three in a moment.

SPEAKER_07 7:29

Absolutely, and we'll chase the the top three all the way through to the finish now, not having uh a team like them in the in the chase, especially going into tomorrow, which in my opinion would be a stage that suits them really well.

SPEAKER_06 7:40

Yeah, absolutely. So very sad for Rosa Fundue, and of course, our our thoughts go out to her and hope that she's she's gonna feel better. Um I'm pretty sure she won't start tomorrow. Who knows? They are very, very tough, but um, yeah, very dramatic moment on the stage today. So let's uh have a look at the overall classification now, just on the women's side, just so you kind of uh have an idea. And tomorrow, of course, is the Queen's Day. We'll talk about the details of that just now. But uh Kellas Dillon and Alessandra Keller uh leading the race by four minutes and fifty seconds over the She Sens Foundation and team of Kate Courtney and Greta Seville. Hattie Preen and Hattie Smith are 31 minutes back from that, they're in third place. Then Tupada FSA Kender, Katazina Sosna Penele, and uh Georgia Marche, uh 35 minutes from that, so it's pretty close amongst those in fourth still. And then uh in your fifth position, Simitec.net Margameschetti and uh Claudia Pareti, who kind of moved into that fifth place. So the top three are the top two are pretty much decided, but in three and four, again, it's still some competition to be had. And uh I still think those top two, you know, anything can change. It might be four minutes and fifty seconds, almost five minutes, which is a lot. But a couple of mechanicals, anything can happen.

SPEAKER_07 8:46

Anything can happen. So then also looking at the African jersey, we've got um Bianca Hall and Sam Saunders looking good designing to see uh efficient divinity. They're in six over all the GC, but we see that Fortress Toyota are the Slow and Theresa Woolet have moved out into the top ten on the G C. So they're sitting second in that category right now.

SPEAKER_06 9:04

Well, let's listen to uh an interview we did with Kate Courtney. Um I just battered in your conversation.

SPEAKER_10 9:10

But Kate Courtney uh and Greta Silvia, you'll hear from Greta first and a bit a bit from Kid um from Kate after that, but telling them how they did the stage on the I mean I really can't believe anyone like it turned out like we were discussing some tactics uh yesterday, like imagine a few scenarios and it worked out really, really well. Um so yeah, we we go into tomorrow, I don't know, first we celebrate today. And then we we win buy some cake and have cake because that's the secret, guys. We eat cake. And we think of fun.

SPEAKER_04 9:51

Yeah, we can be really proud of that day. We're excited, um, and we're just having fun out there. And I think at the end of the day, that's the best thing we can do to inspire women through the sport, right? Is make it look fun. Um inspire everyone, yeah, not just women, everyone. We want to inspire you. It's fun. Um, so yeah, we'll just keep that attitude, and I think um this was huge. Having a stage win, that was one of our big goals. Uh so now we have even less to lose, even more risks to take, even more tactics to try.

SPEAKER_06 10:19

Well, there we go. The winners of the stage today, Gritia Siervalt, of course, uh always very expressive about the way she feels about the race. And then we spoke to Candace Little and asked her a little bit about uh the what is it, questionable tactics, but the racing tactics of that last five to ten Ks which decided the stage. Let's see that last sort of uh five to ten Ks. It was an interesting dynamic going on between you and the team.

SPEAKER_02 10:41

Yes, very um, I think uh Greta and Kate have some really good uh tactics going on. I think they know like where each other's strengths and weaknesses are. So do we. And we know their strengths and weaknesses too. But uh yeah, today they really played it well in the finish. And I must say, uh Kate Rode is super strong because we just sat on her wheel the whole time and she still got the better of us at the end here. So great ride from them.

SPEAKER_06 11:06

I think it wasn't negative when they were going on the single track and there wasn't any blocking going on.

SPEAKER_02 11:10

It was just in my opinion. I mean there was blocking and a lot of fighting and crossing wheels and putting feet down. Uh, but to be honest, like it's racing. Um, I think nobody did anything that's like illegal um as much as like it can be a bit silly at times. Um it's all part of the race.

SPEAKER_06 11:30

It seems like that's a reaction that you still want to win every stage.

SPEAKER_02 11:34

I mean, to be honest, like yesterday we said, well, our staff said to us like, look, you guys don't have to like force or win every single stage. You know, the race is so long, it's also about like how you can conserve your energy, and those last three days are really big, all three of them. Um and the stellar boss riding is super hard. So I think today, um, yeah, like I didn't I didn't spend like all my maximum energy. Um, so hopefully tomorrow we have a lot more energy still. Thank you. Hold on.

SPEAKER_06 12:05

Right, so let's move on to the men's race. And as we told you at the start of this podcast today, it was another thrilling bit of racing won by two of the specialists. We'll get into the details of it just now, but it was won by the Canyon team of Lucas Schwarzbauer and Sam Gaze, three hours and 29 minutes and 31 seconds. Their second win of the race, yeah. And it was second place going the way of Luca Bruito and Simone Abedetto, the guys in the zebro yellow jersey at the moment. And then Toyota specialised in Buco, Matt Bears, and Chiston Ukia finishing in third 23 seconds behind. But there was a story behind this. So let's let's just talk about what actually happened because as they went up this UFO clown, it was uh uh unbelievable. Vart Aleman was absolutely smashing it, and he looked set to be taking the stage win by so strong.

SPEAKER_07 12:51

But then what happened? So coming around one of the corners, uh I would say probably halfway down, a similar quick minuscule error, yeah, front wheel washed out, and over the handle bars he went. It was dramatic. And dramatic because the power that he was putting down and the length of time that he was putting that power down for, Martin Stasek hanging on for tier life, uh, Avandetto and and Bredeau were there. Matt Pierce was hanging on, but realized that Tristan was a little bit, you know, back. But unbelievable, and we thought to ourselves, okay, here it goes. And and you know, when you've got Sam Gaze and Lucas Schwarzpah behind you, and you know that they can also, I mean, they like tractors, right? They've got proper wattage. But Vault was just schooling today.

SPEAKER_06 13:37

Yeah, so they so he was he crashed. Unfortunately, behind him was Tristan Nukia. They are lying second on the overall. He gets held up by this crash, and you've got the team from Canyon, their team for William Vittori, they've now gone into the distance, they're riding together. Matt Bears now realizes his partner's behind. He has to sit up and wait for Tristan Nukia, who's already had a tough time getting up the UFO climb. And amazingly, it's one stage the Toyota specialised in Buca team, get within 15 seconds of the top two who are now flat box full gas racing, and uh and then eventually it it goes out to what we saw at the end 23 seconds. But then Kanye, I mean, they are without a doubt. Lucas Schwartzbach is renowned as being one of the best X EC riders in the world, he's a short course specialist, it's amazing that he's participating. Sam Gay's a former XC world champion, he's got the watts. Yeah, and when I looked at that final comp uh, the final two teams racing together, there was literally no chance that uh Rydo and Vendetto were going to be able to compete against those two because the chips that already fallen, they just don't have the power.

SPEAKER_07 14:38

No, and and you tap to Luca afterwards. Remember, Luca is a German marathon champion, so he has got the ability as Sam to move across the disciplines. But he just said today, you know, they had technical after technical, chasing, chasing. He says at the end he was just like, I'm done, I'm done. And then all of a sudden he gets that second wind, and he sees Sam is pushing, and and he knows how powerful the sprint is, but the ability and the tenacity to never give up. And and and not only with them, but Tristan today was phenomenal. He at one stage I just thought to myself, how is he doing this? You know, and and just that ability to push himself into that space of just demons and just slaying demons and just getting up there. I mean, it was it was phenomenal to watch. And and Matt actually commented it on his interview today. He just said this this partner of mine's unbelievable.

SPEAKER_06 15:28

Yeah, no, he's showing a huge amount of guts. So, anyway, the the the the sprint went to Sam Gaze and Lucas Rothsby, and let's just hear from Sam Gaze, who was obviously clearly delighted with what had happened on the stage today.

SPEAKER_01 15:40

Yeah, it was brutal. I um obviously uh super happy to pull it off again. It was uh a really hard final with that climb. Uh we really tried to sort of measure our effort and not go too crazy and just stay in contact with the front, which we did really well. Um, and then yeah, on that last descent, it sort of was uh chaos of how loose it was. Uh and yeah, the BH guys were on the floor. So yeah, this naturally opened up that way. Um, and then yeah, it was just full gas for the light.

SPEAKER_06 16:08

You know you won two stages, you you see you're getting closer and closer to that podium. Is that now a legitimate target for you guys to get onto the podium?

SPEAKER_01 16:15

Well, I think now we're third on GC, so I think uh it's a box tip. Three more days of racing and anything can happen. So I think now it's just a matter of uh day by day and we'll see how it goes. But to win two stages and to be on the podium with three days remaining is awesome. Um yeah, these these top two teams have uh such a commanding lead that it's gonna be a big job to sort of take them out of the position. But yeah, I think if we can just keep doing what we're doing and if we can have a podium and some stage breaks to show for this race, then it's a big success.

SPEAKER_06 16:45

Right, so that was uh your uh one member of the winning team today. And then we spoke to the GC contender, Simone Ambedetto, who's definitely the more verbal of the two guys, but again, the Italians they're so cagey about what their tactics are, and you'll hear now he just uh he doesn't give too much away.

SPEAKER_03 17:01

Uh a bit bold, no, we try to not to waste energy because it's a long week, so we always try to stay in the front group but uh to avoid risk, but uh don't spend too much energy. But yeah, of course, like today on the last climb was just uh an all-out, I guess, for everyone. So yeah, it was still a quite high quite hard stage. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Uh we would like to get a win, but uh yeah, our main goal uh is for sure try to keep this yellow jersey. So but yeah, we will try our best uh to try to win a stage.

SPEAKER_06 17:39

So there we go, the Italians. Uh you've got you've got Kate Courtney who's very very expressive, and then you've got the Italians who are very like cagey about what they experience. They're just trying to stay safe, they don't have a plan, all that kind of stuff. Not so sure they don't have a plan, but I think they do. But anyway, they're riding exceptionally well, and then and as as you said while they were playing that interview, they still haven't won a stage, which I think if you're in the yellow jersey, there's a psychological need to win a stage, isn't it? Even if you win the overall, if you win it without winning a stage, it feels like you've missing something.

SPEAKER_07 18:08

I think tomorrow is going to be telling. You know, we've got the Queen stage. We know it's 134 kilometers, we know the climbing is massive. It's called the Queen Stage for a reason, and this is the last opportunity, in my opinion, where Williavtoria can lose this race because it's for them to lose now. Um they know that their demons lie within the longer distances in the transfer stages because when they get to Stellenbosch, it's cross-country time, and this these are two riders who've podiumed at World Cups.

SPEAKER_06 18:36

Yeah, exactly. So they are class, absolutely. But whether they're I mean, I obviously the question is, and you'll listen to Carl Platt just now. He was saying earlier this week that so much counts in the second half of this race because fatigue starts setting in. No matter what your palmaras are in terms of short course stuff, it can change because of the fatigue. Yeah, anyway. So this is the final, this is the the the standings after the stage today. 87 kilometres, 1,750 meters of climbing was the stage distance today. So it is the William Vittoria team. They are 138 ahead of Terta Specialists, so really that's a nothing gap in epic terms. Canyon moved from fifth into third place. Yeah, they are slowly coming back. They're 5'10 behind, but they know that on a day that things go bad for the other teams, that could be washed out in the second. So they've still got hopes of moving even further up the field. Klimatiza O'Bea, who were quite uh aggressive today but kind of lost the plot towards the end there. That's the team of David Valera and Mark Stutzman 551 back, so they have not bad. And then Buff B.H. Vart Allemann and Martin Stussik, they're still finished today despite amazing.

SPEAKER_07 19:37

But they're very they animate every stage, which is lovely. But remember, when you're riding, you've got riding time and you've or you've got running time and riding time. When that bike stops, their time stops on their devices. So when you speak to Valt afterwards and he looks at the time, he's like, we're right there. We you know uh technicals happen, but we're right there. So the confidence is still there with these two, and they never give up. Um, interesting for me today, and and I'm gonna go back to the stage quickly, but two incredible rides. So the first one was from the um singer KTM racing team, Martin Frey and Simon Stebian. Now Stebi has been part of the Appscape for years. But the Bulls team, didn't he? Absolutely, yeah. What a weapon. And again, we speak about confidence. He spoke about it yesterday. He said we had a good ride yesterday. We realized we can stay with these guys on the big stages. Today, absolutely sublime, coming across the line of fourth place. And then look at double dutch. Tastes and hunts. On his birthday, he comes fifth in the stage at the Abscab. That's gonna move him up, I think, to probably sixth or seventh on the general classification. Sixth on the general classification. And this is someone that put a team together a week before, um, based on a coach's recommendation. Happy birthday to Barry Austin, by the way, today. But I mean, amazing, and and so cool to see just the way that they're racing. It's so good to see. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 20:59

So lots to play for, and we'll talk about the Queen Stage after a very special interview we did earlier today with two very, very special people here at the Absic Gape Epic. We'll be back in a minute. I will tell you a story, Max. I've been to Buckingham Palace, but I've never been this close to royalty.

SPEAKER_09 21:15

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 21:16

Because right here we have royalty, real true Absic Gape Epic royalty, and we have Hanala Stein who has done the same amount of Absicape Epics as John Gale next to her, and they are the last lines because they've done every single stage of every single Absic Gape Epic ever done. It is remarkable.

SPEAKER_07 21:35

And as of today, that is 172 consecutive stages.

SPEAKER_06 21:41

Unbelievable. Hannah, I'm gonna kick off with you actually. You can just hold the microphone slightly closer to you there. So how how does it feel every year coming back to this thing? Is there any sense of trepidation or nerves or anything like that when you come back and do this year after year?

SPEAKER_05 21:56

People think it it gets easier, and I'm not nervous. I think I get More nervous now. Um, and and the epic, like I said, is not getting easier. The challenge are always there, but you know, I every day I sit and I think, why am I doing this? And I answer myself, because I love it. I love it. You know, we never go back to easy, we go back to a challenge and too hard, and that's why I'm back here. And just another thing, we're not the two last lines, is the line on the line, yes.

SPEAKER_06 22:24

Yes, that is quite right. It would have been tricky if there was like one other guy or one other girl, because then there would be more competition. But actually, because let's tell the listeners, there's actually a trophy that is sitting there waiting for somebody to be the last line, isn't there? I mean, that's do you think that's a good thing that it's there, or do or do you think that it's about time they just share it?

SPEAKER_05 22:44

Listen, I think if Stan will share it all, they must make a lioness because that one I check, it's got like balls.

SPEAKER_06 22:52

Right. Right. So that can't be the lioness one, can it? Two story.

SPEAKER_07 22:56

I mean, that's just genetics, right?

SPEAKER_06 22:58

Max, you know people that know people, so could you maybe suggest that to the people that you know that we get a lioness and a lion and a lion at last.

SPEAKER_07 23:06

You need a lot of those to do their things with the hornas, as uh Ibon would say, Ibon's Augusty. But I gotta tell you, having sat on a on a on a on a seat for 172 stages, I think they've had a lot of time to think about this. John, yourself, tell us a bit about your journey and and and quickly, like why the madness? Why coming back each year? What is the executive summary on why you do it?

SPEAKER_09 23:29

Well, initially it was easier than being at home with the children. So it was just super nice to have a relaxing, quiet weekend week to myself, and and and and it was so lovely. Um, but then after a while, uh the challenge of this, it's if if you're a runner, in fact, Mike Mike knows, you're only as good as your last marathon. And you know, as Handler says, it doesn't get easier and you don't get less nervous. You know, you only know if you're going to make it to the end of this when you finished. You know, up until then, you you just don't know. Um, and it's really unlikely that we've been able to complete this many of these uh events without a mechanical or sickness or crash or family or work emergency. It's it's it's it's unlikely. It's been a real a real gift, and so as long as that uh continues, I mean, I I guess that we'll still be here.

SPEAKER_07 24:26

And you both come from such different backgrounds. Obviously, you come from a running background, but you in your day were an absolute weapon on the bicycle. So two different backgrounds completely and unlike weapon on the bicycle. You've seen the transformation of the bicycle. I mean, we've got a 32-inch bicycle on the line. Tell us about that.

SPEAKER_05 24:45

Yeah, I come from a triathlon background, actually, actually, more a running background, and then I discovered the bike. I don't know whether that was a good thing or a bad thing, but yeah, no, look, I if I think back, the 26-inch wheels with three chain rings that got chained stuff all the time in the mud, and the handlebars had to be like 56 centimeters if you dared to make it wider. It was like no.

SPEAKER_07 25:08

Uncool.

SPEAKER_05 25:08

Yeah, so it is just to see that develop. And I mean, and I was one of the ones that said, never will I go to electronic ears. I will stay with my manuals. Believe me, I'm so glad for that. Everything that makes anything a tiny bit easier in the epic because the epic itself is so hard. And um, like John said, you know, and it's not and and and I I know that he will agree, it's not that there's never been sickness. I mean, I've been ill, I think he's been ill. I crashed. I mean, I've got the scars to prove it. My bike broke in two, but you know, you come back for more than that because you go away with so much growth, so much new friends. I mean, the partners that I had over the years has enriched my life, and I think that is also what drives me every year, because it you never go away empty after the air. Never.

SPEAKER_07 26:05

Let's just talk about partners quickly, because if I remember correctly, you and I had a chat at the beginning of this year with Lisa, and you said she's the only partner that you've done this with more than once. Am I right?

SPEAKER_05 26:16

Yeah, the only woman partner. I had my my um partner from 2016, we would have done three together. Unfortunately, she had some injury that she couldn't. So now it's again different partners, but like I said, um I always say um how do you call it the spice of life, the variety and stuff, but it's it's also good to give someone the opportunity to take passionate and then to make a new friend, but then this time I just click this one amazing lady, one amazing woman, and believe me, she can look like that little lady on a bike, she's she's a different kind of person.

SPEAKER_06 26:55

John, uh I need you to be honest about this because it's a difficult question I'm gonna ask you now. Is there well you can ask it? I can ask it, and you don't have to answer it, absolutely. But is there any rivalry between the two of you?

SPEAKER_09 27:08

Oh, good question. Well now that's that it's it's so deep and so immense. And I'm just gonna have to roll you back 30 years to the to when I bought my first bike and went to a fun ride. And having dragged myself around the course, I got to the finish, and they'd already started the prize giving, obviously, because um taken a while. And and Hunley was giving out the prizes, and she she called me up for a lucky draw, uh, lucky draw thing and gave me a pair of socks. And I mean I was blown away because you know I don't get that at home or anything, so it was not even on Father's Day. It was really, really special. And I mean, and then I just sat down and she called me up again and gave me a water bottle, and I I thought this is incredible. And afterwards, as we were leaving, she came up to me and gave me a whole case of apples. And it was, I mean, I so I you know, obviously I have never forgotten that. And and 20 years later she told me that the the reason is she'd never actually seen a man so happy to be given a pair of socks, which is which is why she kept testing it with a water bottle, it's the worst just as happy. Um so actually, yeah, I mean, uh the rivalry here is I would really love to be as cool as Hanala.

SPEAKER_06 28:29

I'm gonna ask you to ask the question as well. I mean, that there's obviously this trophy that we hope they will maybe in time split, maybe who knows. But does it feel like you have to just hang on there to keep going or and and you want to be the last line, or is it the drive you suggested is not about that anymore?

SPEAKER_05 28:45

Firstly, thank you, John. And you know, I was trying to score primary points already then, as you see. But you know, it's it's so weird because many people ask, and I've thought about it so many times, and I the rivalry is not the right word at all. I think we're both fighting not to outlast each other in that sense. Yes, the trophy can will be fantastic, but in my heart, definitely no rivalry. Yes, I would carry on fighting till the very end, and last year I said, What does a woman do after 21? You leave with grace, and then I said, Are you are you crazy? Never like dropping the hole of womanhood, and I said, you know, goodbye, Grace. I'll just have to carry on and I go like and house this hotel setting. I said, He's a tough, I don't know what I'm gonna do. So I wish him every year the best of it. And from my I mean it. And then when I congratulate him, I mean it when I want to say to you, I wish you didn't finish, but it it will be it will be a sad day for any of the two of us because we've become almost like a team fighting for this. It's it's it's it's weird, but I can't put another word to it. But um, I think, and when he sees me on the course, listen, he races. I know John, I'm not actually competing with you, but he's gone. So it's actually a part of the fun in a way, or the part of the privilege. And I said to someone the other day, I cannot explain it in any other way, but for me to be here is absolute grace. It's not love, it's grace, believe me. Because 22 years of my life is a third, more than a third of my lifetime. And people ask me, Do you have kids? I go, like, when did I have time for that? So he had time.

SPEAKER_07 30:36

So I've got a question. Will you ever ride together? That was exactly gonna be my question.

SPEAKER_06 30:42

Have you thought about it? How close have you come to actually considering it?

SPEAKER_05 30:45

I've been thinking about that a lot, and I thought I wonder what John would say, because it means we we both want to finish. Obviously, maybe that's a good way, because then we can just finish every time and say, Listen, you'll have to cut this trophy now the because we're gonna now start to ride together. But you know, then I I don't know, shall I trust this account?

SPEAKER_06 31:07

John, I'd love to hear your opinion on that. Have you have you thought about it? Have you considered I mean you've got a fantastic partner in Philip Ferreira, but it would be such a privilege to ride with Hunler.

SPEAKER_09 31:19

Uh I I'm not sure how I would square it with Phil, but anyone would leap at the chance to ride with her. She is such an amazing partner, and neither of us are riding well. Handler's actually quite often on the podium, so this business of you know me racing away, that's that's just something she's saying to be nice, because that's not what's happening. Um you know, but for me, you know, it's the reason you run a marathon is you you learn every time you get out there. Every time you ride this race, you learn something about yourself. And you think after the 20 odd years we've been doing this, that we'd already have learnt it, but actually you don't. You you haven't learned it all, or you need to keep learning it. And and that's kind of why I keep coming back. Um it's it's it's certainly not for the prize money, nice as that is, but um it's for the personal growth. Would I ride with her in a flash? Love to. I'd be I'd my hero, the the the person who started me down this with this admittedly false hope that I would get Lucky Dip prizes in future, which of course has never ever happened again. Um what an honour that would be.

SPEAKER_07 32:32

That's a great idea.

SPEAKER_06 32:33

Well, as I say, it's gonna be a tricky conversation because I know you guys have got fantastic partners that you love riding with anyway, so it is a tricky conversation, but it's love to hear the sentiment. So my final question is is there any sense in either of you that when I get to that, it's over? Or when I get to that, I think I'm gonna call it quits. Well, where do you sit with that in your in your head? Have you considered that?

SPEAKER_05 32:56

Listen, it's it's getting tough as you get older, but I think the privilege to be able to come back and do it is so huge that I think, oh, as long as I can, because it's part of my life. I mean, 22 years, it's it's it's part of who you are. If you're not brushing my teeth, I won't know, you know, you you just have to do it. Um so for me it's like to come, it's not to come and chase something or it's because it's an absolute privilege to do this, you have to be healthy enough to do it. And um, you know, and I'm sure John will agree because yes, as you get older the body takes some shots, but every time you hear, you think, wow, I mean to be healthy enough to come and do this, because this I don't know why this race is so tough. Because I've done, and I'm sure John also, we've done so many other races, but the Cape Epic just throws something new in every time, and I think that is why you come back to like I said, you never go back to easy, you go back to tough because that is what makes your build your character and and your your attitude. I tell you today again. I saw every time you want to just I say to my vanilla, your attitude, change your attitude, so and then and then you go carry on. Because I mean, there's many times where it's really hurting, and then I say to myself, would you rather not be here? And I go, change your attitude. No, it's all about perception. But then I look forward.

SPEAKER_08 34:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 34:26

Man, that was a great answer. How do you guys the question? How do you beat that?

SPEAKER_06 34:31

Have you ever considered that there's a there's a time limit or a goal, or is it just event by event basically?

SPEAKER_09 34:37

I'm gonna quote Paul Newman from uh Golly, can't even remember the name of the movie now, but the answer is I never had a plan one day in my whole life. I don't know how I started writing this thing. Um well I'd do it with Jake's, but but no, I I as long as I'm able to and I'm enjoying it, uh and and it's I'm really curious as to how many times it's possible to do this without something going wrong. You know it's amazing. I've availed every cycle to it because you know there's something wrong on the day, or you're sick. You know, not every marathon I entered, I finished because you get sick, stuff happens. You know, I I'm I'm genuinely curious as to how long this can, in fact, continue.

SPEAKER_07 35:22

Yeah, to have the stars aligned for eight days consecutively for 22 years.

SPEAKER_09 35:28

Is that this is an absolute privilege to be here and it's a real gift. Um and I can tell you why this is harder than other rides, because every day is twice as long and has twice as much climbing as mortal man should really be attempting. That's what makes it hard. Yeah, and that's kind of why we're here.

SPEAKER_06 35:45

Yeah, absolutely. Well, thank you very much for joining us today. I know that both of you finished a lot earlier in the day, and uh you could have gone back to your accommodations and uh your mass I know you've had your mass houses already, but thank you very much for joining us today. John.

SPEAKER_09 35:57

Well, uh, I'm sleeping in the tent, so I really do have nowhere to go, Mark said. What you've done is the best place. What you've done, and and this may just be the alcohol talking, but but then again, I do like what it has to say. You've helped me contain my consumption by giving me something else to do for however long we've been sitting here. So for that, thank you. I think cheers for both of you.

SPEAKER_05 36:16

I want to again say these problems are not mine. I'm staying in a in a nice sleeping in a nice bed, so I'm very happy because for that. So yeah. And thanks so this is not you say to make time, it's about the people. So of course, the time is is is absolutely nothing compared to what they put in to support us. When I've ridden with a broken arm, like six weeks before the race, I broke it. That is why. So, yes, I will gladly make the time. Thank you guys.

SPEAKER_07 36:50

Go on, cheers to you two, our last line and lioness. Amazing, Matt, long continue. Thank you, guys. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

SPEAKER_06 36:59

Well, what a lovely conversation that was with two absolutely fantastic people. I mean, I know they've done amazing things on the bike, but they're also very inspirational just to hear them speak about the way they take on these challenges and uh smart, clever thinking people uh they're they're real assets to this race. Do you think we'll get them to ride together one day? I don't know. I think it's I mean it was it's a dream, I think, for for the people, but I I know that they've got, as we said in the interview, they've got very special partners that I think they really love riding with, and I don't think it'll take a lot, but maybe one day, you never know.

SPEAKER_07 37:29

Um 172 stages without missing a heartbeat. I mean, that is unreal. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_06 37:35

Right, let's move on to our regular segment on this podcast. Um, Mr. Karl Platt, who's watching uh from afar in Germany at the moment, watching the live feed. If you want to watch the live feed, you can come to YouTube pretty much every day. Look up Epic Series, you will see the live feed. It is the best television you'll watch the morning, take the morning off. Only work in the afternoon, that's what I would suggest. And uh, Carl's been watching, and this is what Carl thought was the team of the day today.

SPEAKER_00 37:59

What a stage today at the Epic. Unbelievable. Lots of movement, and uh Epic is unfolding now. I mean, you see a lot of movement in the race, and uh take it going. Tomorrow. I know it very well. It's going to be a proper month. So stay focused and uh I'm excited to see what is the outcome for tomorrow.

SPEAKER_06 39:45

So thanks very much, Carl, and uh I think Carl's gonna have a lot to say because tomorrow is what they call the Queen stage. So if you're not familiar with the terms in cycling, the Queen stage happens at grand tours, um, any even shorter tours that always have a Queen stage. It's it's the stage, I guess, that they think will define the rest of the race. It's often the hardest stage, it normally is the hardest stage. And tomorrow I think we're gonna see a lot of changes and a lot of suffering at the back of this field because this really is a beast. Take us through the numbers.

SPEAKER_07 40:15

Yeah, I mean when the route is launched every year, which is such an exciting event uh for the calendar, um people compare the rest of the other seven days to the Queen stage, don't they? Yeah. And and and when they're training and when they're doing what they need to do in the lead up to the Epsicap Epic, that is the focus. That is the stage. So tomorrow is the dance. Tomorrow is the time that you have to step up. You've got no excuses, and you make it through tomorrow. There's a good chance you're going to finish the 2026 Epsicab Epic. Yeah. Let's have a look quickly at the profile. So the men start tomorrow morning, 7 o'clock. Uh, a unique stage tomorrow because the women start at 6 45. And they're down the road. Uh, and uh they of course will then come across the line first at Stellenbosch tomorrow, expecting them around 10 30 tomorrow morning in Stellenbosch. So please, if you are around, take the day off work, get through uh to Kutzenberg and come and watch the finish of the women's race. They meant to finish around 11:30 an hour later, but the men 134 kilometers, 2,750 metres of climbing. It's an absolute beast. You look at the profile and you just need legs. There's you need legs and oxygen tomorrow, and it certainly has a lot of the favorites. And then we look to the right hand side, and it's a five-star race. This is the toughest day by far.

SPEAKER_06 41:25

Yeah. And I think what's interesting about this is that you you have a small little download at the start, and literally you're just going straight up onto a plateau, all the way along the top. Towards the end, you've got the biggest clump of the day as they go into Stellenbosch. That's going to be on tired legs, particularly for the guys at the back of the field. And I think what you said earlier is so true, is that it will define largely how people are feeling, but it is one of those things that Epic does well when I talk about how tough this event is. When you get that medal on Sunday, this is the this is the stage that kind of defines the kind of metal you need to show. Because the legs are tied, the mind is tied. Everything about your body says, Don't do this again. And now we're going to throw the tougher stage at you. And it is the stage where mentally it becomes so important for these riders throughout the field, particularly the guys at the back, where they just have to say, Okay, one pillar stroke at a time, right in the moment, don't think about the finish, just get to water point to water point because that's what's going to get to the finishing line. So it it is it is a beast.

SPEAKER_07 42:23

Yeah, and next to the grand finale, which is always emotional, this is the most emotional stage. There are stories coming left, right, and centre. There's just absolutely everything going on. Let's talk quickly about the women's race. 90 kilometres, uh, 2,150 metres of climbing, a big day. That is gonna be an hour and a half longer than their stage today. And and tomorrow is gonna be the day where your legs have to show up.

SPEAKER_06 42:48

Yeah, and they're literally doing the three-quarters of the of the stage the men are doing. In other words, the hardest three-quarters of what the men are doing. So it's certainly not easy by any stretch, and it is as much a queen stage for them as it is for the men to tomorrow. So, yeah, it's gonna be an exciting Dave. Don't forget live coverage on the YouTube channel. Um, just look up Epic Series and you'll see it there. I think literally from the time the gun goes off.

SPEAKER_07 43:08

Yeah, 645 tomorrow. I think probably from 6:30 tomorrow morning for the women's race. Because they'll do the pre-entries. So tomorrow morning I will be here for the men's start, and then I'll make my way through the course and hopefully get to Stellenbosch before the women come in. But the speed at which these women are going this year, I'm gonna be I'm gonna be chasing my tail. But excited for it. I think 10 hours and 15 minutes tomorrow is the longest day. So it's gonna go well into the early evening. We're gonna be finishing just after six o'clock in the evening. So please come through to Stellenbosch, come and join us, come and cheer home uh these incredible athletes. Remember, we'll be in and out of Stellenbosch for the next two days. The grand finale on Sunday. Be there, come and join us.

SPEAKER_06 43:45

Well, that's all from us for now. Goodbye, see you tomorrow.