.png)
Talk Sh*t, Get Bit
On the Talk Sh*t, Get Bit Podcast, Michael Parker and Chris Flannery talk all things K9. They share insights on creating a better relationship with your K9 by sharing their combined years of experience and interviewing other experienced handlers and trainers.
Talk Sh*t, Get Bit
How HRD And SAR K9 Teams Train For Real-World Chaos
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
You can train a dog to find an odor in a controlled space, but search work is a different beast. We’re joined by Amanda Ballard of Co-Operation Canine in New Mexico, a trainer with deep experience in search and rescue K9 work and human remains detection. We get into why SAR K9 teams face a huge range of variables across desert, buildings, vehicles, and loud unpredictable environments, and why “just keep searching” is a trained skill built on hunt drive and smart reps.
Amanda breaks down what changes between live find and HRD dog training, including how weather and humidity can shrink the window for tracking, why area search becomes the practical answer, and why HRD odor is not a single simple target. We talk handler skills that matter just as much as dog talent: reading change of behavior, avoiding sloppy assumptions, and keeping dogs safe around source. We also dig into the hard parts people rarely say out loud, like the emotional impact of recoveries and why strong community support is not optional.
We close with real-world guidance on doing this the right way: agency rules, certification, crime scene integrity, and why freelancing creates safety and legal problems. If you’re thinking about getting started, we also share what to expect from our upcoming five-day introductory search and rescue seminar (April 4th through the 8th). Subscribe, share this with a K9 handler or future handler, and leave a review. What part of SAR K9 work do you want us to go deeper on next?
Welcome And Guest Introduction
SPEAKER_01Hey guys, welcome back to another episode of the Talk Shit Get Bit Podcast. I'm your host, Michael Parker. Unfortunately, my co-host Chris is unable to join us today. But today we are joined by Amanda Ballard. A little bit about Amanda. She's got over 20 years of experience in the industry. She owns Co-Operation Canine out in New Mexico. On top of that, she works in human human remains detection and search and rescue, owning two HRD and two SAR canines. She's got a long list of accolades, which I'll let her share some of those with you. I do know she is the co-commander of the Cebola County Search and Rescue. But Amanda, welcome to the show.
SPEAKER_00Hey, Michael, thanks for having me.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. Pleasure to have you here. And I'm excited to talk uh talk some search and rescue in HRD with you.
From Reactive Dog To Trainer
SPEAKER_01So I guess a good starting point is what got you into training? I know you said you started back in 2005. What kind of sparked your interest in that?
SPEAKER_00So I started with pet dog training and pet dog behavior modification. And the reason for that was a little bit selfish. I had a super naughty dog who would try to bite anybody that came over. She's basically just a reactive dog, poorly bred. But by the end of her lifespan, and after I learned as much as I could, she was actually super friendly with people coming over and would welcome guests. So I guess it's the magic of dogs and the necessity that got me into dog training.
SPEAKER_01That's awesome. Yeah, I I I feel like that's what gets a lot of us in there. Either you like really want to do it when you're a child, or you get that dog, and you're just like, you're like, all right, I need some help training this dog. And in my case, it was it was my service dog, and I was like, man, I similar to you. I forgot to mention like you can also train cats, which I'm jealous of that. But you train horses too. That's what I did prior to training dogs, was train horses. Very, very similar, uh different, but very similar. And I was like, man, I'm struggling to have a relationship with my service dog. Like there's a disconnect here, which kind of sparked that interest in a dog training. So I'm right there with you on that. So I know I how how long ago was it that you kind of transitioned into the search and rescue and HRD?
Working Dogs And The MMIP Drive
SPEAKER_00Well, I got into working dogs, I want to say about six, seven years ago. And again, it was out of necessity. I had a genuine need for a personal protection dog. So I figured, okay, I've been doing, I've been undoing aggression for so many years. Surely I can talk with some experts and figure out how to do controlled aggression. So that was my my dive into the working dog world, if you want to call it that. From there, I moved from Illinois to New Mexico. Had heard for years and years about the MMIP crisis that's missing murdered indigenous peoples. And it shot through me like an arrow through the heart. I've got dogs. I know a little bit about behavior from doing it for so long. I had to do something to step in and step up and try to help them.
SPEAKER_01So that was that's that's an honorable reason to to dive into that. So I guess what what is that? I I've never trained a search and rescue or HRT canine. I mean, I have a dual-purpose canine who does explosive detection, but I I know. But for those listeners out there that don't know, it's got areas that are kind of similar, but it's it's a very different training journey.
Why SAR Has More Variables
SPEAKER_01So, how does training a dog for either HRD or search and rescue differ from training an explosive detection or narcotics canine?
SPEAKER_00I can't really speak to the explosives detection aspect. I've never done that work. I can speak to a little bit with the narcotics training aspect. So with narcotics, it's kind of a canned hunt, right? It's either there or it's not inside of a contained area. With HRD and search and rescue, there are just a fuck ton of variables. Too many factors, so many changes in context. Like you have to have a really strong dog who's going to persistently hut hunt across all different contexts. You know, one day we could be searching miles of open desert, right? The next day we could be searching a building. The next day we could be searching a vehicle. The next day we could be searching, you know, by a lake with a dock and a factory and all these weird crazy noises. So I I would say that's the biggest difference. The amount of variations in odor and the infinite number of variables and change of context would be the difference.
SPEAKER_01Gotcha. Yeah. So like again, I don't have experience in in HRD or SAR or even narcotics, just explosive detection. But yeah, you get a train for every environment. Um that's that's a crucial part because to your point, you could it yeah, I could need them to check a card, make sure there's not an explosive in it, or you know, we might be clearing a building, and I need you to make sure there's not, you know, somebody didn't lay a uh claymore out or whatever kind of uh improvised explosive that we might trip and and set off, or big open areas where we're out in the out in the forest, out in the desert, wherever I need you to detect on that. I feel from what little I do know, like explosive detection, either like you said, there's there's a bomb there or there's there's not.
How Long Live Odor Lasts
SPEAKER_01Whereas when you're doing search and rescue, how long does does that odor linger for for the dogs to find?
SPEAKER_00Okay, so live human odor varies greatly depending on weather conditions. A place like New Mexico, where I live and work, that odor is not there for very long because we have almost no humidity. And then we've got wind and we've got very little vegetation. So it's kind of like hard surface tracking, but you don't have as long for that. So I would say if I'm not on scene within a couple hours of that person's last known point, then the dog's probably not going to be able to track or pick up that person's odor. So we have to get there quick. And the reason that I don't do a ton of tracking training is because, like I said, it disappears so quickly. So I teach the dogs area search skills. Use all of your senses to locate the nearest living person in this environment. So we can get it out, go square by square, and dogs will locate any living person in that environment.
SPEAKER_01Now, so you usually just have them look for anyone living in that environment versus doing like an article search.
SPEAKER_00They can work off of articles, but we don't always have the luxury of having that. So we do a lot of training without that.
SPEAKER_01That makes sense. Yeah. It definitely helps if you have an article. For those of you that don't know what an article search is, that's you know, you have an item that has that person's odor uh or scent on it, and you send the dog out to find that odor. Which, yeah, you know, I I guess sometimes if you you you have no idea where where you're looking for somebody or you don't have any leads, you just kind of have a location, then you don't have that luxury. So that's very different. I mean, I think that just kind of shows how scent detection is at the core, sense detection is scent detection, but how you have to use it in different job as aspects can vary so drastically.
Why HRD Training Gets Complicated
SPEAKER_01Now, let's talk about the the HRD, the human remains detection a little bit. How how does that training process look trying to train for that versus training for search and rescue?
SPEAKER_00Uh as far as the training process, I mean there's there's a world of differences. So I'm not really sure how to get into that. I would say HRD is probably, in my opinion, more difficult, more time consuming than like a live find would be. Just because that odor can have so many different variations of you know stages of decomposition and places it could possibly be, that it'd be it's a little quite a bit more difficult than live find or area search.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, because again, kind of tying in explosive detection. Sometimes it might be at the surface, but sometimes it could be buried. So training the dog to detect stuff at surface level, but also beneath the ground. So say somebody buried a body, teaching it to detect underneath the ground and alert you that hey, there's there's something here.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, some people will tell you and have very sillily told me in the past odor is odor. It's either there or it's not, right? Well, no, there are many different changes in many different ways that could be concealed intentionally, unintentionally. No, it's not just one specific uh odor that you're looking for, it's all of the different contexts. Like so that could be buried. That odor picture is gonna look different to a dog depending on what it's buried in, how deep it is. So those are all things that we have to train for. Obviously, odor first, your dog knows odor, that's great. And then you add and introduce all the different variations of that you can.
SPEAKER_01That yeah, that makes that makes sense. Yeah, you know, everybody like when I started getting into, you know, odor detection, everybody's like, well, you know, you've got to wipe everything down, no human odor or any of that. But in which I I understand that, but in real, like you said, in real life scenarios, guess what? Who handled those like explosives and stuff? Humans. So there's gonna be human odor attached to it. I think that's a in my opinion, I think that's a little bit like people being nitpicked. I can understand early on getting the dog used to just finding that's that set, but then after a while, I don't I don't wash my hands and stuff and you know wipe the things down entirely good. It's got natural odor mixed with it because that's what you're gonna find out in the real world is like somebody handled it at some point.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I mean, I I can handle everything sparely. I'll even use different brands and different types of gloves to hide things. Everything gets cleaned out with alcohol to make sure there's no odor left on it, on the containers. So yeah, I do not want live odor mixed in with my HRD odor for sure. But yeah, in in the real world, out in the wild, there, there's gonna be all kinds of distracting odors. And those are things that you have to take into consideration for proofing. You know, we had a situation where I had a buried height in training, and the coyotes came out and tried to dig it up and pissed and shit all around it, right? That's life, that's what happens in the wild. So the dogs had to go, you know, they had to know not to get overly fixated on that animal odor and go to what we were looking for, which was the buried that's some real, real life training right there.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's can't beat that. I got a question for you. How how deep underground can a canine pick up that human odor?
SPEAKER_00Like buried remains?
SPEAKER_01Remains, yeah.
SPEAKER_00I guess it depends. A short answer is it depends on a lot of things. These guys recently did a training search, and I'm gonna call it a training search and not a deployment, for archaeological finds. So things that are approximately 350 years old. And I don't know how deep those things are buried because I didn't know, you know, I don't know how deep they dig back in the day. They've also found things for an agency that were supposedly buried at an unknown depth as long ago as the 70s on a cold case homicide. So I it depends on what it's buried in, what the container is. And you know, I'm not in the business of telling people how to hide bodies. So short answer, it depends.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. Let's not give anybody any insights on how to hide bodies. But yes, so it there's a lot of factors that go into whether whether that dog can can detect that or not. And I know you mentioned, you know, where what kind of terrain it's buried in, the the the soil, all that kind of plays an impact. Um very complex, complex um subject to to train on. I had a follow-on question, and I just forgot what my follow-on question was about that, but it'll probably come back to me later.
Training Hours And Deployment Readiness
SPEAKER_01How long would you say from from start to finish? Well, I obviously with with training, it's continual. There never is a finish, right? You're always training, always preparing your dog, but from from starting the process of either search and rescue or human remains detection to I can actually take my dog out and start deploying it for that job.
SPEAKER_00I had someone ask me this question earlier today. We did a training with our live fine dogs in our community. And like, how long does it take? And I said, again, you know, short answer is it depends on the dog. Haro was operational, I'd say within about two weeks, he was on his first deployment after he got home. And that's with no training, but that's with me being a total psycho about training regimen. I mean, we're doing like nine training hides a day. Kind of crazy. Raya, she's my other HRD dog. I had her operational of 29 training hours, and that was, I guess, experience of working this guy and knowing what worked and what didn't work, and then carrying that over to the other dog. So again, short answer, it depends, but you should have, you know, about I'd say about 200 hours before you try to go certify.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. That's good insight. Yeah, because I'm like, I took took my my dog from didn't know anything about odors to, you know, she's finding and alerting in, you know, three days at a at a school. She's finding it in buildings, she's finding it on vehicles. And how I started that was building her hunt drive, which is something that you you mentioned being being crucial with with honestly any kind of of of odor canine, is they have to have that drive to keep hunting for it. Because like you said, sometimes it's not there. Sometimes we gotta search for a while to find it. So you gotta have that persistence to keep going and not get bored or distracted. And so I built her ball drive probably for like three or four weeks, you know, just yellow ball with a string, throw it out, teaching her to get it and bring it back, making it harder and harder, increased distance, making her wait to go find it, and and such forth. So then when I came time for me to teach her at the school, they're like, hey, we're gonna put it in this wiffle ball with a string and throw it out there. I was like, oh, she knows this game. All right, bet. So we we did that, and like by the second time of throwing it out there, you could see she wasn't like she was looking for it, but you could see like she was also smelling for it. She was using her nose and and tracking where it was coming from till later that same day, we're putting it in in a box on the side of a car, and she's I'm sending her a hundred yards to go find it, and she's she's getting there. Obviously, she didn't know how to alert at that point, but she could find it, and then building her to alert, which I'll say her her alerts not the best. Sometimes she wants to try to eat it, which when you're dealing with explosives, I'm like, please don't try Yeah, please, please don't eat the explosives, and please don't try to bring it back to me because I don't want to go boom too. But more so it's the knowing her her body language and cues when she's on odor. And I'm I'm sure that's something that you you use a lot in in search and rescue and human remains.
SPEAKER_00Yeah,
Reading Change Of Behavior
SPEAKER_00yeah. So the change of behavior is something we pay a lot of attention to. I do have very pretty TFRs or train final responses, alerts, indications, whatever you want to call it, but I pay the most attention to that change in behavior because then I know whether or not my dog is punking me. Because they are they're malinois, they're smarter than I am. Yeah, and if they do get bored in the environment, they're gonna go try to get whatever they can to get their toy. So I know to watch very closely for that change of behavior. Especially Haro, he likes to try to punk us.
SPEAKER_01And and so for those that are like, well, what are those changes of behaviors look like? What are some of those change of behaviors you see in your your canine?
SPEAKER_00So in mine, I see an increase in respiration. So rapid. I'll see a full body snap if it's big odor, I'll see a head snap if it's small odor. Those those are the easiest things for people to spy. So changes are changes in breathing, respiration, and like a full body or a head snap in the direction of something.
SPEAKER_01And again, that's depends on the dog, right? Everything kind of depends on the dog. That's what to say. It's very similar to like Padme when she's on odor. Usually I'll see the head come up and I'll see her sniff the air. And I'm like, oh, she picked up something. And you can kind of her tail will go up to like she's like, oh, it kind of like almost goes rigid for a minute, and I'm like, oh, she she's on on some kind of odor. And then you can just see the difference in like her mannerisms. Like, so with her, she's got like a roving command. I call it scout. I'd be like scout, and I send her out 20, she goes about 20 you know feet in front of me, and she's scanning, looking for threats because she has dual purpose, so she's looking for threats, but also uh explosives, and I'll see that that head go up, see that change of posturing, and I'll see her start to take towards where that odor is, which usually that's when I call her back on leader and then send her to go figure out where it's at because she does like to try to eat explosives, so not cool. I'm like, yeah, just just lead me towards it, right?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so I know where something too. Like my dogs are not allowed to touch source, so I I like for them to kind of nosepoint at where it's at and then back away from it, and we can talk about the fine details of teaching something like that another day, just a few hours of conversation. But yeah, I don't like them touching source, like get as close as you can to it and point at it, but don't put your mouth on it, don't put your face on it because that's somebody, you know, right like explosives, like you don't want your dog picking that up because that's that's now a dangerous situation for everybody.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, it's same concept, different reasons behind why uh for both. But like you said, you know, we can go over the fine details later, which I kind of wanted to talk about the upcoming seminar that we're doing together.
What The Five-Day Seminar Includes
SPEAKER_01Well, yeah, obviously you're doing, but you're doing it here uh with us. So we have the pleasure of having you come up here to Illinois and visit us for five days to do a search and rescue introductory seminar. So we want to talk about some of the stuff that if somebody's listening to this like, oh, I would love to get into search and rescue. What are some things that they can expect from that seminar?
SPEAKER_00So, first and foremost, they can expect a very strange weirdo from New Mexico who has an unorthodox teaching style. It the course is an awesome overview of how to get started, what it takes, what the processes are. And then I'm most excited about how we have three days of field practical applications. So we're gonna take those skills and we're gonna put them in the field, hands-on work, one-on-one with me and your dog.
SPEAKER_01That's that's gonna be exciting, and I'm excited to learn learn more from you when you come up here. But yeah, just for an overview of what those five days look like. The first day is a lot of information, diving into a lot of those fine details that we've kind of hit on here a little bit, but diving into it more in depth around search and rescue. But also, you're gonna evaluate those that are taking one of those working slots, you're gonna evaluate their K9. figure out one if it's got what it takes to be a search and rescue dog, what we need to do to get it there. Or if somebody's got one that's started, what we need to work on over those next few days. Day two, a little bit more education along with our first kind of half day of application in the afternoon. And then day three in facility working with the dogs, day four and day five. We're going to do it out in the environment. I know we're we're planning for the that fifth day it's going to be a little more extreme getting them out into the woods out by the lake running running some some trials out there with the dogs. So it's going to be a good time. I'm I'm looking forward to it.
SPEAKER_00I know I'm excited to partner with you guys on this. It's going to be a blast.
SPEAKER_01So with that said now that we talked about that let's talk about you know why somebody might want to get into search and rescue.
Rewards, Grief, And Community Support
SPEAKER_01What what are I mean you kind of mentioned for you it was you know finding missing indigenous individuals. But what what are some of those rewards of being involved in search and rescue?
SPEAKER_00Well the HRD side of it is you know we have families out here who've been waiting more than 10 years to know what happened to their loved one. And being a part of helping that family find answers is huge. You know you're you're wondering what happened to your loved one what this, that, another you know you run all these scenarios through your head and you're sick with worry and sick with grief and you can't move past it. And helping them find those answers so they can start their healing journey that's incredible.
SPEAKER_01Give them that closure.
SPEAKER_00I you know I don't ever like to call it a closure. It's more let's start our healing journey or here's a piece of that healing journey because closure looks different to everybody. True. And you know sometimes the closure could be justice. Sometimes it could be locating them it it varies from person to person and that's a very personal thing. So giving them some answers. Where are they? Okay. So that's a good start. And with the search and rescue aspect of it, of course saving a life showing up and showing that we care. Everyone is someone and getting someone off of that mountain or back to safety that's why we do it.
SPEAKER_01That's awesome. And you know I can I can relate with that I think ex especially you know any of our veterans and first responders that listen to this you're like yeah you know you know what that feeling is like to save a life and and be there for someone in their to their time of need. That's a it's a special feeling definitely gives you a good sense of purpose. Next question a little harder what what are what are the downsides to to it if any what's the hardest aspects of of doing search and rescue or HRD?
SPEAKER_00I absolutely could not do any of it without the support of my community. So when you are doing this type of work or any type of first responder work you need to have that network of people who love care and support you and will just listen and be there for you. Without them couldn't do it really couldn't even do any of the lifeline training without them we have so many amazing community members here in my local home community in New Mexico who volunteer to come out and hide from my dogs and make complex training scenarios happen for them. And that's we would be impossible without them that's awesome. Yeah and the you know it's it's tough. I think one of the most pivotal moments for me in HRD work was being there for a death notification where our team had located someone and I will never forget the sound the family made the wailing of the family that is ingrained in me forever. That was difficult but knowing okay I was a part of helping them find answers. They know where that person is now is what you know kind of makes it okay.
SPEAKER_01Yeah that it's never never easy to deliver that kind of news to a family even though you are delivering answers it's still it's still hard answers to have to to deliver all right so that that was kind of sad. I'm not gonna lie that kind of put me in in in my feels so now you gotta now you got to share a rewarding experience with share one of your one of your one of your happy stories with us.
SPEAKER_00Oh I mean you know I guess I guess I have to sit with that for a minute because that is really heavy I can't just kind of breeze over and move on. And again having my community support is what helps us get through those things and some of the happiest times I think we've had have really just been in training you know laughing with those community members who show up and show out for my dogs to help them become the best dogs that they can be and help us become the best team that we can be. So yeah focusing on that just the joy of working with people you absolutely have to love people as much as you love dogs if you want to do this work. It's not about the t-shirts and tahoes I think I heard someone say it's about the love of human beings and dogs equally so the partnership with your dog is just the most phenomenal incredible thing but also being there for someone you have to love them in order to to do the hard stuff.
SPEAKER_01That's beautiful all right so I know I know you mentioned prior to us going live you know you you talked
Agency Work Versus Freelancing
SPEAKER_01about the difference of joining an agency versus doing it freelance. So I want to talk about that you know the those obviously both are an option what what are the the pros and cons of joining an agency versus going at it freelance?
SPEAKER_00So I don't know what Illinois state laws are regarding live find search and rescue or human remains detection. I'm just not sure but live find search and rescue in New Mexico is governed by the New Mexico Search and Rescue Act. So you have to be state certified through NMSAR with an agency. So that's how you can get out there you're at the command or under the jurisdiction of New Mexico State Search and Rescue which reports to New Mexico Department of Public Safety, which is basically the state police. So that you have to HRD the lines are a little bit blurry there but they shouldn't be treat every scene as a crime scene. So that's the reason we don't go out unless we're asked to by an agency. We want to make sure that we protect the integrity of every death investigation. We want to make sure that you know we're not going somewhere where we're not supposed to be we're not trespassing things like that. And we want to make sure that the evidence is preserved for whatever they might need it for. And uh so in freelancing work I've seen some silly stuff you know I've done freelancing not really freelancing but under what would be a private sector team I've seen some things to kind of raise my eyebrow at you know walking in areas where you know there's remains without law enforcement present. Not a big fan of that not a big fan of having team members pick up or collect evidence you know just stuff like that.
SPEAKER_01So I made the decision again that's a that's a crime scene.
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_01And you're disturbing the crime scene yeah not not a smart idea.
SPEAKER_00Yeah and I understand you know some agencies have very limited resources and they can't have an officer out there and families desperately need answers and you know the agency may not be able to provide those as quickly as like a private sector team would but still at the end of the day I want that family to see whatever justice is needed in that situation. So you will not catch me out there under private sector or freelancing um especially with HRD.
SPEAKER_01Well I mean I'm I'm sitting here like well wouldn't you just like if you found the remains call a local agency in and be like hey my HRD dog just indicated on some remains here you want to come check it out so that they can handle it. I why I don't understand why anybody would try to handle that on their own.
SPEAKER_00Yeah no I mean I'm sure that it does get called in when people do things like that but I'm just not interested in in going out there without law enforcement present because first and foremost everybody's safety is important. So yeah and you know of course justice for the family and answers and crime scene preservation also super important. So as a rule my dogs and I, we do not go out unless we're requested by an agency and they're present because I feel all the stuff I just said plus our role is to support their efforts not compete with them not try to do their job for them. We're an extension you know we're there to enhance and support what they're doing. Yeah that makes sense yeah and as far as benefits go the community support is awesome of course you know we talked about that in the last little spiel but if you're an HRD trainer you better check your state laws because you need to know whether or not you can have source as a private person. With an agency you can so that's another benefit to that um also the command structure is also amazing. That's what the dogs and I love about it as well you know we know who to report to who to check in with who to check out with what we're supposed to be doing the organization factor of it is is night and day different for me anyway in my experience others might have completely different experience and different sets of benefits and negatives.
SPEAKER_01So question for you I I imagine when like you said you're going out with an agency doing the HRD when you do search and rescue do you usually are you usually accompanied by a local agency as well?
SPEAKER_00We have to be in New Mexico that's state law we have to we can't deploy unless it's a New Mexico state thing. So New Mexico state search and rescue for life they're the overseeing governing body for that.
SPEAKER_01And and again you're just an extension of law enforcement at that point you're just a you're you're a resource to them like you're uh aiding them in their their search for a missing individual so it makes makes perfect sense and and to your point like the safety aspect too like if you do have to cross property lines so you're you know your dog's on last thing you want is conflict with somebody because you're searching for a missing person even if you have good intent then you still set yourself up for possible confrontations that could be avoided by just doing it through an agency where you you have that support of law enforcement that says hey we're not here to mess with you we're here searching for a missing individual or if things did get hostile law enforcement's there to step in.
SPEAKER_00So don't freelance it New Mexico is a little bit the wild wild west in a lot of places especially my little county here so we have a thing called a fence outlaw if you cross that fence the property is fenced you know you're you're trespassing your criminal trespassing also in certain situations we're going into areas that are dangerous. So we need law enforcement there and we're not going to go in there without them you know I've had homicide suspects walk up and try to interrupt my HRD search asking if I found anything what I'm doing out here stuff like that. So real important that you're staying within the lines and operating within what you're allowed to do.
SPEAKER_01Yeah and and again since I you know I do work in anti-trafficking recovering missing and exploited individuals like you you get you got to be on guard when you're doing that and the same you're looking for a missing person you don't know why or how they went missing so they they could have got lost on a hiking trail or they could have been kidnapped whatever it might be so you never know what you're up against. So it's not smart to take that on without without some some muscle behind you you know some protection.
The Case That Lit The Fire
SPEAKER_00Yeah well you you asked me initially what got me into search and rescue and I gave you my answer and then you know that was the start what really lit a fire under my ass was my neighbor was brutally murdered and they you know the sheriff's office and the neighbors knew that I had dogs and they called and they said the neighbor called and said hey can you come up and help look for her with your dog and I said not without law enforcement asking me obviously and so neighbor called back and had the deputy there he said sure come on up we'll take any help we can get then the lieutenant arrived on scene of of our sheriff's office and had a stand down which I was more than happy to do but just watching everybody go from building to building to area to area to area to area to hours looking for my neighbor when that would have taken me and my dog maybe a couple minutes where she was eventually discovered. And that lit a fire under my ass and the fire was I need to get better at what I'm doing so I can help them and expedite this process for them. Save them the trouble of wandering all over that property and show them exactly where it's at with a really good dog. That's powerful.
SPEAKER_01Yeah and I mean so yeah it is the wild west you know my dear neighbor was by road a mile and a half from me as the crow flies about a quarter mile from where I live wow so I guess I got one one last question for you.
Steps To Get Involved
SPEAKER_01We mentioned you know the the the benefits the the cost of of doing it joining an agency versus freelancing obviously join an agency don't freelance it's away from this but for somebody that's hearing this and they really want to get involved outside of obviously you've got to train a dog for this what are those steps that somebody needs to take to get involved yeah so join a local agency start hanging out at the meetings figure out you know do you like how this command structure works join your local volunteer fire department get your FEMA IS certs done so that you know how to respond to a unified command and things like that.
SPEAKER_00See if you like that that's you know that's step one. And then if you do you know you're hanging out you're you're learning stuff then go work with someone learn from someone who's doing this and and learn about all the aspects of day-to-day life with these dogs and all the work you're gonna have to do and if you're like cool that's what I want to do sign me up then take the next step from there.
SPEAKER_01Yeah join join your local fire department there you go join your local fire department that's uh that's how you get involved that so I I I do have one more
Workload, Heat Risk, And Rotating Dogs
SPEAKER_01question. Yeah how many how many hours a day or a week do you spend I and I know you got four of them so that's a lot of a lot of commitment to keep them trained we'll we'll break it down per dog how many hours a day or week do you spend running them through scenarios?
SPEAKER_00Gosh that's a great question. I think I'd probably have to look at training records because I do actually have a life sometimes where I have to run errands and maybe go to a social event but a lot is is the short answer. A lot and it depends on where they're at with their training. So like today Elvis and OSA are my live find dogs they did four hours today with me. Each or uh divided total total okay divided yeah so I was blessed to have people that want to volunteer to help me out spend four hours of their day with me and that's just amazing.
SPEAKER_01That's awesome. But the HR dogs you know we're running training searches at least three times a week the live find dogs it just depends on when I have people available to help me with that and it's at least four hours a week four to five hours at minimum and and and if you're listening you're like what two hours per dog like well when it comes to to live find I mean I'm sure it can it can take a while doing the HRD finds but a live find you might be out there twice that if not longer I I guess that leads to a question is is how long would you leave a like if you're doing a live find is there a time limit on how long your dog can be on that or do you have like personal time limit on how long you'll allow your dog because obviously you got to worry about exhaustion and and things of that sort if you want to talk about that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah so I think probably a lot of people listening are like why the fuck does she have four dogs two in each discipline? Well the answer is because our deployments can be really really long sometimes and malin laws are crazy. Some of them like Raya she will run until she dies I have to watch her so it depends on the weather. If it's decent weather not too hot there's some shade for the dogs and places to take breaks you know they're good maybe two to four hours for a dog if it's hot weather that's a whole different ballgame the longest I'll run these guys is maybe an hour. And sometimes it's even less than that. If it's real hot there's no shade they're good like 30 minutes and they're done. So watching for behaviors like shade seeking excessive panting all the fun precursors to heat injury I watch them very very closely for that but yeah our deployments will be anywhere you know okay just check this area real quick to we've done up to 14 miles.
SPEAKER_01Wow yeah and and so I guess with that if we'll we'll use ideal conditions you know and you're sending them for two hours at a time you're actually let's do hot days a little more stress on the dog and say you're doing 30 minutes with one dog after that second dog does its 30 minutes are you going back to the first or yeah okay if there's if the other dog's ready you know no rapid respiration and not excessive panting just chilling in their crate they come out they go so we're rotating I have an amazing flanker my son actually who is the lieutenant of our local volunteer fire department he is my flanker so he'll either be with me or he'll be driving the vehicle to the next deployment spot okay yeah so I I go the whole way I don't get any brakes but the dogs definitely do I I I feel like we all take better care of our our dogs than ourselves most of the
Choosing The Right Dog And Closing
SPEAKER_01time.
SPEAKER_00Yeah well Amanda I do do you have any any last imparting wisdom for for the audience uh yeah back to the how long does it take depends on the dog choose the right dog for the job and if you're like me where you are a self-starter you'd like to figure out things yourself you'll go and learn from as many people as possible but at the end of the day you're working ducks like crazy figuring things out yourself choose the right dog for the job and don't get butthurt if you pick the wrong one it just means that's not the right dog for the job and that dog has a different superpower.
SPEAKER_01I love that I'll I'll add something to that too is you got to train the dog but you also got to train yourself. You should always be seeking more more knowledge improvement and working on your skills. And as Amanda said you know she's gone up to 14 miles in a day. Your dog's gonna do 14 miles in a day you got to be able to do 14 miles in a day. So keeping yourself in shape mentally and physically is is huge. But Amanda I just want to thank you for coming on here I look forward to seeing you in a few weeks if you guys are listening to this and you're interested in our search and rescue seminar I'm sure we'll do more in the future if you can't make it out to this one but if you are interested in it it is April 4th through the 8th you can reach out to us at devil.k9 to find out more information but as always guys thank you for tuning in to another episode of the Talk Shit Get Bit podcast we'll see you next time
.png)
