Episode 5 | Zach Richardson

Another comprehensive discussion with my boy Zach talking about all things CrossFit training, competition experiences, ultras, recovery protocols, and athletic development, etc.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:10

Back with another episode of the Steven Show, episode number five. Got my boy Zach Richardson back with me again.

SPEAKER_02 0:17

What is up?

SPEAKER_01 0:18

Yeah, we got a lot to catch up on. I was gonna try to get you back like mid-February, right after the open got done, but it was kind of just hard to schedule it. But now we're back here. We got a lot, a lot to talk about, a lot to catch up on. So let's let's take it back to the open. Yeah. Walk me through what happened there.

SPEAKER_02 0:36

Uh so first workout was the wall ball one. Um, it was like I don't know how many wall balls it was. It was wall balls and then box jumps and box jumps. Oh, that's right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 0:49

Box stepovers were right in the middle. Dude, actually, as we're talking through, I'll just pull up every workout.

SPEAKER_02 0:54

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it was 26.1. I believe it was 18 wall balls, and then it went to 40 and then 66, I think.

SPEAKER_01 1:06

20 wall balls, so 12-minute time cap, 20 wall balls. Absurd. Yeah, it was wild. Yeah, 20 wall balls, 18 box jumpovers, 30 wall balls, 18 box jumpovers, 40 wall balls, 18 medicine ball box step overs, 66 wall balls, 18 medicine ball box step overs, 40 wall balls, uh, 18 box jumpovers, 30 wall balls, 18 box jump overs, 20 wall balls. Did it end with 18?

unknown 1:37

No.

SPEAKER_01 1:37

Or it just ended with 20 wall balls, right there. Yeah, I think so. Okay. Which is absolutely absurd to get done in 12 minutes. But some people did it. 20-pound wall ball, too. Yeah. For male, 14 for female.

SPEAKER_02 1:49

Yeah. But so basically, like I thought I was gonna do way better than I did on that workout, um, just because like high volume squats is something that I'm okay at, but just did not go as planned. Like, blew up on the wall balls immediately, and then heart rate was so high going into the round of 66 wall balls. It's really tricky how to break it up because you can do like smaller sets, or you can do like big sets if you can hold on. What was your strategy going into? Well, so the first one I think I went unbroken on the 20, I split 40, and then my plan was to do sets of three.

SPEAKER_01 2:29

Did you go unbroken on 30 as well?

SPEAKER_02 2:30

Yeah, 20, 30, and then 40. Yeah, yes. Sorry, so I went unbroken on 20, unbroken on 30, split 40, and then sets of three for the 66. Okay. But I ended up breaking three times on the set of 40, and then I think I broke like a lot on the 66. Um, the stepovers and box jumps, like I moved through, but my heart rate was just so high on the 66, and I like couldn't get it down because you're kind of in too deep at that point, and so I ended up um redoing that one like 16 hours later because we had work. So I went, I did it on Friday, had a terrible performance, and then redid it again just so I can get a better score. And then I only got like 15 more reps better, but I got better. Yeah, but so I like you know, it is what it is, it's the open, you know. Yeah, and then uh 26.2, which pulled up right here. Yeah, you read it all.

SPEAKER_01 3:29

So you had um it was four time, but 15-minute time cap. You had 80-foot dumbbell overhead walking lunge. Was that single arm or dumbbell? Single, yeah. Okay, yeah, and then 20 alternating dumbbell snatches, 20 pull-ups, 80 foot dumbbell overhead walking lunge, 20 snatches, 20 chest to bar pull-ups, 80 foot dumbbell overhead walking lunge, 20 alternating dumbbell snatches, 20 ring muscle-ups. This one sounds fun. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:57

Yeah, no, this one was really good for me. Uh the lunges were totally fine. The pull-ups and chest to bar was totally fine. I split that, I think I just split it in half. Basically, I did like 11 and 9. And then the ring muscle ups, I got to the ring muscle ups super fast. I got to the ring muscle ups like I want to say seven or seven minutes or no. Yeah, seven minutes. No, I'm tripping. I got to the ring muscle ups like six minutes.

SPEAKER_01 4:27

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 4:28

And um screwing. Yeah, and I felt really good. And so I did like how many was it? 15? Of the ring muscles? 20. 20. I think I did like seven or six or something like that. And one set. Yeah. And then it took me another like minute and a half to do the rest, which like just sucked at that point.

SPEAKER_01 4:54

Which isn't terrible though, because that's a lot of people's cryptonite. Like a lot of people, from what I saw, is like they'd get like two ring muscle ups, but they all got to the ring muscle ups super quick.

SPEAKER_02 5:05

Yeah. So it was like I knew at least you finished it. Yeah. Um, and I got a I wanted to get sub ten, I got sub ten. I think if I redid it, I could have got like low nines, um, which would have been a really good score. But what would you change if I would definitely I would split up the ring muscle ups way more? So I would do just more controlled like like level, I would do like five sets of four or four sets of five or something like that. Yeah. Just because it would have been way easier for me to maintain. Um, they felt really good, but I failed, I think, three at the end. Which so that's 20 seconds right there.

SPEAKER_01 5:43

20 seconds. Yeah, even more than that. So it's like would you would you slow down your pace and say get there at like seven minutes? No, I still go quick.

SPEAKER_02 5:52

I felt really good when I got to it. My heart rate was super controlled, everything was fine.

SPEAKER_01 5:57

Or it was just the rings that I was like, yeah, because that's all that other stuff is pretty cake for you because it was what a 50-pound dumbbell? Yeah, so yeah, that's so that's super light, so you can just prank through that. The lung just go super quick. Yeah. 50 pound for snatches for someone like you who's training, I would assume, with like 70 to 80 pound dumbbells. Normally the 50 just feels like you're throwing it in.

SPEAKER_02 6:19

Yeah, honestly. Yeah. Um, so yeah, I didn't get to redo that one just because of work again. Uh, but then it always happens during the open. Our work schedule never lines up. Uh, and again, it the open, it's like the way it worked this year was you just had to make the top 25%, which was not that difficult. Doable. Yeah, so I was like, it is what it is. I mean, obviously, I'm gonna try hard. I'm not gonna be one of those people that's like I didn't try in the open because I you do try, you know, but um didn't get a chance to like redo and like sell my soul on every single one. Yeah. Um, then we go to 26.3, which I did in Wadapalooza. Oh, that's right. Yeah, I watched a live stream of it. So uh basically we talked about Wadapalooza too, but 26.3 was uh the thrusters and then cleans and then burpees, and that one um again, like happy with my score. I think I could have done better uh on a redo, but didn't get a chance to redo that. Um that one was pretty unfortunate because that was we did it on a Saturday in Miami and it was our third event of the day. Oh so we were all just like gassed. But I mean, when you're in that environment in that crowd, like you're gonna get a better score than you were just doing. Yeah, people around you and stuff like that. So that was a lot of fun. But yeah, dude, so had the open and then went to Wadapalooza. I went to Wadapalooza with um two guys that are really good at CrossFit. Uh, we qualified for Wadapalooza back in November. Um, the two guys, it's one of them's name's Luke, and the other is Kalen. What are their last names? Uh Kalen's last name is Weaver, and then uh Luke's last name is Hune.

SPEAKER_01 8:08

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 8:09

Um, and so Kaylin went to um semifinals last year, and then Luke is just an absolute monster truck, dude. He's a beast. Um, and so they both went to university to place CrossFit, and that's how I met them. Okay. Luke moved to California because he goes to Stanford um for business school. Cool. And then so he's doing CrossFit as much as he can, but like he's still on his master's degree, yeah. And then Kaylin just moved to El Paso, Texas, um, and he's been doing CrossFit for a while now. So how old are they? Uh Luke's in his 30s, I think he's 31, and then Kalen, I believe, is 28. Okay, so they're still pretty young. Yeah, yeah. So Luke um he went to uh JBLM, and that's how he got with UP, uh University of Press CrossFit, and then Kalen. I honestly he tells me a story every time, but I forget it. But he was out here for um he moved here from Maine, and he's in the military as well. So they're both military guys, um, super cool guys. Um so we qualified for this back in November. Um talk me through the qualifying process. Yeah, so you basically uh if we did a team of three and you each do a workout. So let's say, like, you know, it's it's 30 snatches, 30 cleaning jerks, um, 30 overhead squats. We're each gonna do that workout, and then we send our score and we submit our score, and then it basically tallies it up as a team. Oh, okay. So there was only one workout in that qualifier that it was a pickup where you left off. So it was like I did, I forgot what it was, it was terrible, but it was like 21 cleaning jerks, 21 burpees, something, something, something. And then uh Kalen picks up where I left off.

SPEAKER_01 10:04

For like a certain time, don't they? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:06

So then Kalen does it for seven minutes, and then and then as far as Kalen can get, then Luke picks up where he left off. The clean in jerks was like 135, 185, and then uh Kalen did 225, 275, and then Luke had to pick up where Kalen left off of 275, and then I think Luke got like one or two at 315. Totally. So we Luke had to redo that one, like he had to redo a couple in a day because um of his school schedule, and so we needed him to get to that 315 bar because it was gonna be big separate on the leaderboard. I feel so bad for that guy because he just went through war like just by himself, trying to get as much as many cleaning jerks as he could. But um, so yeah, we qualified for that back in November. Actually, funny story, we didn't even qualify for it. We were like, we were we got a backfill spot. So we finished like 33rd in the qualifier, and they took the top 20 teams. Um, and then we ended up getting a backfill spot because this was the first year that they they like basically handpicked elite teams. So like Justin, Jason, Down, they were a team, and then a bunch of other guys were a team. And then the top 10 from the qualifier were in the elite, the rest were just RX teams. Oh, okay. So it was like I honestly when when we first like submitted our scores, we were like, oh, we're gonna qualify, like, we're good. Yeah, and then we look in the leaderboard, we're like, Oh, we are not good, like we didn't even qualify, and then finally, like, we got a backfield spot. So cool. Qualified for that back in November, and then um went with them and then Hunter and then Cooper um to Miami, and it was so much fun.

SPEAKER_01 11:48

Did Hunter and Cooper just go just?

SPEAKER_02 11:50

Yeah, they just go to went to hang out. Cool. Um, so Hunter uh he we called him like the side quest god because dude, he would come back with like a new pair of shoes, new sweatpants every single day. He would go and doing all the little challenges, yeah, dude. Yeah, he had one, it was like a 250-meter uh row uh for time. I saw that clip, and then as many calories as you can in a minute for time, and he did it back to back, and he was not okay, dude. Like he thought he was gonna throw up, he like took his shirt off, he was about to throw up in his shirt. It was the funniest thing in the world. But uh he just put it on the line. What if he win for that? Well, if he would have got nothing, yeah, because the first one he got he would have got the row record for sure. He was, I think he was pointing like a 115. And uh big dog, yeah. Yeah, dude, he would have got a 5'11 best, and then if he would have got the ski, the as many calories in a minute on the ski, he would have won a free trip to Mexico City.

SPEAKER_01 12:56

Holy shit!

SPEAKER_02 12:57

Yeah, so he had the record for the first day, somebody beat it, and he was like, I'm gonna go to war and go back on the road.

SPEAKER_01 13:05

Bro, they should do every day, right?

SPEAKER_02 13:09

Yeah, so uh, so it was super fun having them there. But um, yeah, so Friday, we we got there Thursday, got an Airbnb. Friday had uh what was the event? Oh, it was a legless rope climb and then something else Friday night. Oh, it was a snatching event. Um, so it was like hang snatches, and so dude, it was at nighttime, and it was I had just got done pouring down rain. Oh, that's right. I saw that storm, all the clips. So we get to the we get to the the you know, where our our event is, and they're like, okay, you can't bring your own chalk. And we're just like looking at each other, we're like, okay, it's weird, you know, whatever. We'll just go out. We we did this workout in training, and we got a pretty good time.

SPEAKER_00 13:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:59

So we get out there, and uh, you know, I'm I'm on doing the heavy devil unders first. So it was basically it was 99 heavy demblanders, heavy devil unders, 30 cow on the assault bike, and then there's two people doing that, one person resting. Once you finish that, you do your snatches. Then it was like 30 hang snatches, 30 overhead squats, and then as the weight increases, the reps decrease. So the weight, the top weight was 185, and then the that rep scheme was like 11 hang snatches, 11 overhead squats. Middle weight was 155, and then it was like 22 for the reps of that. So get to the 135 bar, uh, or we get to the to the uh bar and stuff like that, get ready to do our thing. And I put my ham in the chalk basket, and it's soaking wet.

SPEAKER_01 14:51

Oh, dude.

SPEAKER_02 14:52

And there's take it out of the rain, dude. No, and there's like the chalk is like paste. Oh so I'm like rubbing my hands together, and it's just a ball of wet chalk. So I start, I look at Kaelin and Luke, and I'm like, dude, this isn't good. Like, we're gonna be in trouble. And so I try grabbing the bar, it just slips out of my hands.

SPEAKER_01 15:11

Oh no.

SPEAKER_02 15:12

So we get to the uh double unders, we do our thing, and then the bar dude is just slick, like so slippery, you can't even grab it. Uh, and then so we get past 135 bar because it just wasn't that bad, and then we get to 155 bar, Luke's rope snaps like mid-double under. So he just is a dog and grabbed like the actual rope and just forgot about the handle and then finished off his dubs that way. Dang, and it was a heavy one.

SPEAKER_01 15:43

Do the judges and stuff have like replacements right there that they can swap in.

SPEAKER_02 15:46

Dude, our judge was not like bless her heart, but she was terrible, like absolutely terrible. She miscounted my dubs probably like 15 reps. Bro, that she would piss me. Yeah, she did a terrible job at like uh like letting us go. Like, there was a point where I was on the assault or I was getting ready to do my snatches, and she went back to check the calories on the assault bike instead of like trusting that like we just finished our calories. She was like, wait, don't, don't, wait, don't go yet. Let me go back, let me look at the calories, and then she let us go. I like she stands in a position where she can see that just so you guys can keep going. Yeah. So anyway, final bar 185, dude. I get to the bar and I get I wrap my thumbs around it, I'm trying to hook grip, and I pull it up, nothing slips completely out of my hand. So I re-grip, I was like, I gotta do this. I try again, nothing. And then Luke goes, Luke's like way bigger than me, dude. He's huge. He tries to go and he fails, and so I was like, oh yeah, Luke's failing, like we're in trouble. Yeah, and so uh luckily Calin like pulled, like he clutched up. He ended up doing nine out of the 11 uh hang snatches, and then like six out of the 11 overhead squats, and Luke had to do the rest of them, and I literally did nothing in that because I couldn't grab the ball. And we finished like 10 seconds below the time cap on that, um, on the actual event, and then when we did it in training, we finished like three minutes before the time cap. So we just gotta be so frustrated.

SPEAKER_01 17:26

Oh, dude, was that you said that was the second event?

SPEAKER_02 17:28

Yeah, damn, and so our coach, Steve, um, was just loving it, dude. Like he was laughing his ass off the whole time watching us, like, because he's just like, I want you guys to have these moments where like you're you gotta fish figure it out, you know? And like it was just funny because funny because it's like there was nothing that could honestly go worse at that point. Like everything, it was raining, we had no chalk, our jump rope broke, like we were suffering. It was hot on the biggest. Judge was a terrible, so like you couldn't even grip the bar, yeah. So it was just it was one of those, one of those events. So then Saturday, uh, we started the morning off with a 3K beach run, um, which you would have crushed this, but it was terrible, bro. Like running through the sand uh and like trying. We I didn't wear shoes. Yeah, so like I mean that might be smartest. Looking back, like some people wore shoes, some people didn't. We just chose not to because it part of it was a swim too, and so like you don't really want to wear your shoes in the water. Um, so we had that event, and then then the second event was like some muscle up event, and then the third one was the open. And then at this point, we were sitting in probably like ninth place or something like that, and then or no, we were sitting in like seventh place, and then get to Sunday, and you know, our event's supposed to be like 9 a.m. And then they push it back to 11 because of the rain. So we start walking to the venue. As we're walking the venue, it's raining even harder. So we're like, oh, this isn't good. And then by that point, we got to the venue, get into our warm-up area. They're like, Oh, we're pushing it back to one. So we're like, okay, we go back to the apartment, chill, look on Instagram, there's another rain delay. They keep pushing our events back, probably like an hour or two, bro, like every single time. So at this point, we all it's probably like 4 p.m. We all kind of look at each other, we're like, what do we do? If if they say like we can compete, still, do you guys want to? It was a one rep max, basically like clean jerk complex. Yeah, and we were like, Yeah, like we'll do it. We at this point, like we had been like sitting in the room all day long, like terrible conditions to do like a one rep max, you know. They didn't have any covered areas or like big tents or no, they only prep for this, yeah, dude. So um, and then the other event of that day was a sandbag like squat, um, and then like burpee chest to bar, toes to bar thing, which we did not want any smoke in that one, dude. So honestly, we weren't that mad about it. Um, but yeah, so they ended up canceling the entire event and then called it with like the team placements. Uh so if like whatever place you were in at that point, that's what you got. So we finished seventh, which is like awesome for not even qualifying. Yeah, like to be able to get top 10 for being a backfill, we were super hyped with that.

SPEAKER_01 20:38

Hell yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:39

Um, and then but luckily, by the grace of God, dude, like we had finished the open. So I'm sure you saw on Instagram, like nobody, none of the elite athletes, like like Justin, Jason, Dallin, like all those guys, none of them did the open because they got cancelled. Oh shit. So how'd they get it done? That was the problem. They're screw everybody's scrambling to find a gym. So all the CrossFit gyms in the Miami area basically like announced on Instagram and opened up their gym to anybody and everybody who wanted to come to the open. Oh shit. So they have like hundreds of people just dropping in, yeah, doing the open.

SPEAKER_01 21:19

Trying to get it done. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:20

Because it's the deadline's the next day at like 5 p.m. And then everybody's flights is the next day, so nobody can do it. So, dude, like Monday morning, Hunter and I went for a run and we saw people doing the open like in the sand because they just had to get it done. Like the sand. Yeah, dude. We were like, oh my gosh, like it was just everywhere, everybody doing the open. It was cool to see, you know, from like a community perspective. But I was like, this is brutal. So, like, yeah, I was really glad we got it over with because I was that would have been us, you know, just trying to scramble to find a gym. Um, so yeah, we got back from Miami and then had just had quarterfinals, um, which not happy with. How I did in that. Those workouts as like I thought there was gonna be a lot more like heavy and like skill stuff in quarterfinals, but there wasn't. It was kind of like a second open. But again, fitness is fitness, right? So like you just kind of you know, you get the workouts and you do them, you can't really complain about them. So it is what it is.

SPEAKER_01 22:20

Um explain for people who don't know how the quarterfinals works, explain to them like how many workouts, okay, how you have to submit them, where you get them, how much time do you have to get it done. Yeah, talk through that stuff.

SPEAKER_02 22:33

You have for quarterfinals, you have it's usually four to five workouts. Um, it's just like the open in terms of um your your uh you submit your score. Um typically for quarterfinals, they've made you videotape it. Um this year, for some reason, they did not um require a video submission. So you didn't really have to videotape it. Did you still video? Yeah, yeah. I I still video document, yeah. Of course. Yeah, and it's also like if I ever get questions, like I have the video, you know? Um so yeah, you do four workouts and um and then submit your score. How it works is from the open, they take the top um 25%. So I think that was like 31,000 men, and then something thousand, like maybe 29 or 30,000 women, and they get invited to quarterfinals. So um you can opt in to do it or not, um, but you do your quarterfinal workouts, and then the top 2,000 men and the top 2,000 women that place in the quarterfinals get invited to semifinals. Um, and so you know, you basically the top 2,000, I think, is the top 1% or top 2% or something like that. Um, and then the top 200 from the top 2,000, there's a lot of top tier. Yeah, the top 200 from the top 2000 can get invited to in-person semifinals. So that's like uh Syndicate Crown, which is in Tennessee. Um, there's the Legends, there's a bunch, there's the Torian Pro, which is the one in Australia, um, there's the Northern California Classic, which is the one I'm doing. Um, and so you basically get the top 200 athletes can choose which semifinal event they want to do.

SPEAKER_01 24:32

Um and we talked about it on our first podcast, but how did you get into North Cal? Did you qualify through quarters or no?

SPEAKER_02 24:40

I qualified through Northern California Classics qualifier. Okay. So I qualified through it back in January. Okay. The catch was that I had to make the top 2,000 um from quarterfinals in order for it to actually be a semifinal event for me. Okay, and so I finished like 600th or something, something like that in quarterfinals, which is still great. Yeah, which I was happy with considering like the workouts and stuff like that. And so, but it took a lot of pressure off from me because I had already qualified for NorCal. Yeah. Um but like there's a lot of guys out there that like are really, really good, but they didn't qualify the top 200, and now they are they possibly won't get an in-person semifinal event like a uh to do do an event, which kind of sucks because like they're super good, you know, but it's like yeah, it is what it is. So that's why I was super happy with qualifying before, um, especially like my second year in CrossFit going to semifinals is like something that I never would have imagined. Yeah. And it's still kind of like honestly, dude, like it's almost like an imposter syndrome thing, like where I still don't feel like I deserve it because I know there's so many people better than me, you know? Yeah, but I mean you did the work back in January to get it. Exactly. And so I have kind of just playing it smart.

SPEAKER_01 26:07

That's what you gotta do if you're a competitor.

SPEAKER_02 26:09

And I've talked to like my coach a lot, Steve, and like in the he kind of knows where I'm at with it, where it's like I I still don't feel like fit enough to hang with the guys. Um and so I gotta change that mind.

SPEAKER_01 26:23

And if you aren't, you gotta just keep telling them so you are because you're right there, obviously, from an outsider's perspective, like looking in, you are.

SPEAKER_02 26:30

I appreciate it, dude. But it's some one of those things where it's like I think the thing too is like I'm I'm such a realist that I'm like, oh, like I know how hard it is to get to this point, you know. And so for me, like I just still am kind of in awe that like it's happening, and it's all happening so fast that it's just like what just what just happened? Like this is my second ever CrossFit open, and now I'm like gonna be in a competition with everybody as a games athlete, you know, and I'm like, okay, well, do I belong? And my coach has talked to me a ton, and it's like, dude, like, yeah, you do, like, you need to stop acting like you don't. And this is a year where like you bring that confidence into it, where it's like, yeah, I know I belong here, you know. Yeah, so it's gonna take a lot of getting used to. And I think I've throughout throughout my life just going to a smaller school, um, going to Auburn Mountain View High School, where you know, the basketball team, when I was playing, I was playing, playing, we weren't always that good. I've always kind of been an underdog, and so it for me it's like a new thing to like to feel. I don't want to, I guess like when I try to feel confident, I don't want to get cocky, yeah, and so I don't want to be like, I belong here in a cocky way, you know, and I I have a really hard time separating that.

SPEAKER_01 27:57

Well, I don't think you portray that at all, but I don't think there's anything wrong with like internally thinking that 100% because that'll just aid you in competition and all that stuff, and it'll just show on the competition floor, like if that's what your mindset is, it does pay off sometimes. Like even if it's delusional, even if you don't fully believe it, you gotta just keep telling yourself that because one day you will absolutely be there, yeah. Yeah, and then when you are there, you absolutely want that mindset, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 28:27

Yeah, so I think, and I again I think to just like you know, you had what a hundred and something thousand people that did the open, and then only 200 people out of that are actually competing in person, and like one of those people, besides you know, getting invited in the top 200 is me. And it's just like insane to think and and be in that spot and be like, oh, like I deserve this, you know, when I have when I'm with guys that have been doing it for years and years, and they still haven't got to this point. And I think that's where it's like the imposter syndrome is like look at it in like look at our career.

SPEAKER_01 29:07

There's guys who are interviewed for it for seven to ten years until they get it, but yeah, dude. It took us a year to get in, but that's not yeah, that's not our fault. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, we shouldn't be feeling guilty about that. We put in the work and performed well in interviews, and that's how we got our job.

SPEAKER_02 29:24

Yeah, same concept here, exactly. And I think for me too, like a lot of it rides on my faith, right? Where it's like I know that God, you know, this is all God's doing, and I get him all the glory, but it's more about like I know that he's putting me in this position for a reason. I don't really know why. Um, but uh I'm getting accelerated through him, right? And so it's really um I think that's where it's at too, is like I know I I just know that this is what I want to pursue and what I want to keep doing because I know that I feel like the Lord is directing me to it, if that makes any sense, and the same thing with goes for you with running, where it's like you have all these races and things coming up, and like you're actually performing well, and you're like you're not like confused why you're performing well because you work so hard at it, yeah. But a little bit of it too is like there's not many people that could do 50 milers, there's not many people that could do 100 miles, and there's very few people in the world that can do 200. I don't even know if I can do 200 miles. Well, you can I'm gonna find out. But do you see what I'm saying? Where it's almost like one of those things where it's like, why, why am I the guy? You know? Yeah. So, and I know that like we all question that, but like it's just more about believing, like, yeah, you are the guy, and a very, you know, um humbling and um just the word I'm looking for, a way that doesn't seem like you're you're you you want you are the one that wants all the glory, you know what I mean? Yeah, so yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:03

There is a part of me that like I feel like everyone else kind of has the same thing, but I was just talking with Kesha about it this morning, like I do still get a lot of jealousy and like envy of those people that are getting on the podium and winning all these races. But I mean I went and looked back at a lot of these other people who I look up to and aspire to be like in the ultra-running world and just like fitness world in general, and you look at their results and look at how long they've been doing this, and they're just now like for the people that I look up to. I'll I'll use Rachel Anchorkin as an example. She's been doing races for 10, 12 years, and yeah, like there's a couple first and second and third places in her earlier years, yeah. But for the most part, she's not winning for her first like eight years of doing all this stuff, and now the last year, she's just been winning every single race she signs up for. So there's a part of me where it's like when I feel those feelings, and I'm like, why do I keep doing this if I'm still not like getting top three or top five or whatever? But if I keep if I look back three years ago and I look at my times and where I was finishing and like my paces that I was running, and I thought I was hot shit back then, and now I'm even more humble now, yeah, and I'm still not at the top, top, but I'm doing ten times better. Yeah, so it's just like you gotta find that balance of being grounded, but also being extremely confident in yourself till it's a delusional point, like just telling yourself you know it's gonna happen at some point, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:42

And I think too, like to credit running, like with CrossFit, there's ways people can kind of I don't want to say ever say skate by. Yeah. Because there's you not really a way you can skate by. Like you get exposed in certain movements and certain stuff.

SPEAKER_01 32:59

There's all in CrossFit, there's always gonna be something that comes out that's gonna expose you in one way or another. Your weakness will be found.

SPEAKER_02 33:08

On the other end of that though, too, there's always something that you are good at that somebody else sucks at, where you can get away with it on a leaderboard, right? Like you can get away with it, you can this guy can get first, even though this guy doesn't deserve first because he's not the fittest, he can still get he can still get away with it because like this is just what he's good at, and this person sucks at that. Like me and uh Kalen did um the CrossFit Fort Vancouver uh uh competition. Yeah, and we beat uh Cody Anderson, who's a you know multi-times multi-uh times games guy, and then his brother, and they're way fitter than us. Like way fitter than us. But like Kalen's really good at swimming, and Cody and his brother weren't the best at swimming, and so we just beat them in that event. And so it's but with running, I feel like there's really no way to escape like the exposure. Yeah, like you're either good or not, you know, and it's like with CrossFit, like you can be super strong and then suck at cardio, but if a qualifier just requires you to for strength, you're gonna win. Yeah, versus running, like there's no hiding, you know what I mean? Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 34:20

In in ultra running, you can look at it like are you a good climber, which means just like are you good at running uphill and staying a consistent pace uphill? Are you a good downhill runner? Yeah, and then are you a good flat runner? Yeah, and if you're average at all of those and you can just stay consistent forever, that's gonna win you races. If you're just really good at one of those things, sure, you'll bomb up a hill. Yeah, but then if you slow down drastically downhill and are super slow on the flat, people are gonna gradually catch back up to you. Yeah, yeah. So that's where I'm trying to find my balance. Like uphill is my weakness. I'm getting a lot better at it, but I'm just trying to stay consistent paces because like earlier on when I first got into this, I would be cruising on the flat and downhill. But then when I got to any uphill, even if it was like a 30-foot climb, like I'm slowing down to like a 22-minute per mile pace. Yeah. Where if I now, if I come up to something like that, even a thousand foot a gain or something, something like Mount Peak, where it's a mile long, I can trot up it at like pretty steadily at like a 15 minute per mile pace, which is yeah, exponentially better. And I've shaved a ton of time off of my long like 50k's plus runs. But yeah, I do. But yeah, I don't know where I was going with that.

SPEAKER_02 35:34

But well, just I think just overall, like it's just like the we are getting better, right? Like whether or not we believe it or not, like looking back from you know a year ago where I was, a year ago where you were, like the the the times, the progress is exponentially different. Um, but living it in you know present right now, it's hard to see that. Yeah, and then you don't really see it until it's game day and until you start doing your thing. Um, but yeah, dude. So you leave tomorrow for your 50, and then where's this 50 at?

SPEAKER_01 36:07

This one's in Quincy, it's called Ancient Lakes 50 Mile. Um, it is so what this race is, it'll have probably anywhere from like 4200 to like 6,000 feet of climbing. I've looked at like three different maps for it, and it's kind of like inconsistent with how many feet of elevation gain. So I'm expecting anywhere from what I just said, like 4,200 to 6,000 feet total, yeah. And anywhere from 49 to like 52 miles, because all of these races they're never like exactly the distance that you sign up for. It's kind of hard to do that on trail and stuff. Yeah. Um, but this one I'm expecting it to be close to 52 miles, and then um how the format of this race is. So there's a start-finish area, and then there, I think it's like blue, green, and red, or like yellow or something are the loops. So there's three loops, one of them's four miles. So you'll go out and you'll do like the four mile loop, and then you'll come back into the same start-finish area, and then you'll go out and you'll do like a 10k loop, which is like 6.2-ish, and then you'll go out again on a third loop, which this one's about like 6.9, just under seven miles. So all three of those loops are like 17 or so miles, and I have to do that three times. Jeez. Yeah. But the thing that I like about this one is that I can stay really light with my pack and what I'm carrying on me because I'm always coming back to the same spot. So I'm gonna leave a rubber maid full of all my nutrition, everything that I normally carry on me. Yeah, and I'm just gonna like just take what I need just in that moment. Like, I'm gonna be thinking like two hours at a time of what I need, and that's what I'll carry on me, yeah, rather than loading my shit up and carrying a 10 to 12 pound pack. Yeah. So that I'm looking forward to that part of it, staying lighter. Um, but yeah, just I'm gonna kinda change my strategy on this one and start slower and try to gradually speed up the last race that I did. I started out not like not overly fast, but just a little bit too hot, yeah. To where I think that played a factor into me throwing up. So I think the heat and a combination of like starting out a little bit too hot and then throwing in those like just random food while while I was running, which I I never normally do. Yeah, but for whatever reason I ate some gushers and I was eating just a gel and like fruit throughout the whole race, and then I decided to throw some gushers in, puked my brains out, and then the last 20 miles I wasn't able to eat or like hardly even drink anything too. So my body was just breaking down, I was cramping up a ton, and uh it was just hard to get through those last couple miles like that. Yeah, so this one I'm just gonna stay consistent with just like two to three things and just staying sticking to that the whole time. Yeah, and if something comes up throughout the run, I'll I'll change it up. I'll yeah, I'll try to experiment with it. But I think if I dial it back a little bit, stay more consistent and gradually speed up a little bit, I think I'll feel a lot better, yeah. Like GI-wise and also just like overall energy-wise. So we'll see how this goes in all these races that I'm doing. Like, obviously, I'm gonna try my absolute hardest and try to do well enough, yeah. Of course, but I'm just trying to learn as much as I can in these just for the ultimate goal of doing well at Bigfoot in August. Yeah, got a couple more months, couple more races leading up to that. Yeah, but I'm just trying to dial everything in, just like paces, uh, what I'm gonna eat, what I'm gonna wear, um, just all the little details and how I'm gonna treat my feet, how I'm what chafing cream I'm gonna use, just like every single little detail I'm trying to hone in to get together when that shit comes up. Do you have anybody pacing you? On this one, uh, my buddy Nick's gonna come in the last 17 miles with me because normally 50 milers they don't let you have any pacers just because it's not a super long distance. Yeah. Um, but this one, since it's like multiple different loops and all that, they let someone come in and do the last three loops with you. And my buddy Nick, he tried to sign up for this race, but he didn't get in because he waited too long and the race was too full. Yeah. And then they sent out like the final reminder email with all the information. It was like 50 milers, you're allowed a pacer. And I was like, Oh shit.

SPEAKER_00 40:29

Yeah, dude. Called him up.

SPEAKER_01 40:30

I was like, hey, you really want to do this, you can jump in with me. Yeah. Um if if I'm running faster, I'm not I told him, I was like, dude, I'm not gonna slow down if I'm running faster. Just keep running, they're not gonna kick you off the course. Yeah. Um, but I'm sure at that point he'll be able to keep it. Do you know what the weather is gonna be like? Uh it's supposed to be kind of like it is uh today, so like mid-60s and relatively warm, but a little more cloudy than it is. Um a couple days ago when I checked, it was supposed to be sunny like this. And then I checked again and it was supposed to be raining. The temperature never changed, and then I checked again yesterday, and it's supposed to just be cloudy. Oh nice, okay. So who knows? It could be anything. Yeah, I'm I'm bringing all my gear, yeah. I'm prepared for whatever weather. Yeah, dude. But yeah, I'm I'm pumped up for this one. Um but yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:21

Funny you talk about uh like experience because I had the I had my first ever individual comp in November of 2025, and I had no idea, like literally no idea what to eat and like how to feel myself. Like I didn't know anything about carbs, nothing. I didn't know anything about like I knew electrolytes were good for you, but I didn't really know like when to drink them, when to have carbs, when all this stuff. So I think for me too, it's like knowing like how does my body react to certain stuff and like when I should be feeling myself.

SPEAKER_01 41:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:00

Um, and then when I was in Wadapalooza, I did a way better job of like fueling and like feeling okay. And I never once like felt ill or like felt like I was gonna throw up or like felt dehydrated throughout, which is super nice because like you know, it's it's basically with that type of stuff, like as athletes, it's kind of trial and error.

SPEAKER_01 42:20

Like you don't really know what you know, yeah, you know, and sometimes things that have been working for a while can just blow up in your face, which is it's frustrating.

SPEAKER_02 42:29

Which is exactly what happened to you too. So yeah, I'm on the same boat where it's just like getting the experience of like eating right, like sleeping, like the prop my process of like what I do when I wake up, yeah. What I do, like how do I time, do I tie my shoes the same way?

SPEAKER_01 42:43

Like stuff like that is just let's talk about that a little bit. How first of all, first off, how did you feel while you were at Wadapalooza? And then I want to talk about just like your day-to-day.

SPEAKER_02 42:53

Yeah, so when I was in Guadapalooza, like I felt fine. Um, I've been battling a hip, a labrum uh issue, so that was the only thing that kind of like hurt. Um, but did like basically my process when I would get back from an event would be like normal tech boots and then like stretching and then rolling out, and then I have ignition, which is like first forms. Oh, yeah, yeah. Third like carbs. Yeah. So I would do that, and then like they also have a protein powder, I'd just mix that in, and then some electrolytes, and then just pound that, and then um eating is huge, right? So like I would just have chicken and rice, beef and rice, um, just snacks and stuff like that. I always had tried to have like some type of protein, some type of carb, and then is this right after events? Yeah, yeah. Well, maybe like 30, 45 minutes after, um, and then like at least two hours before my next one. Um, just because I did not I don't like competing on a full stomach.

SPEAKER_01 43:52

Yeah. Um what are you typically eating before?

SPEAKER_02 43:56

Uh I would have so like or was it exactly in the morning? Morning, it'd be like three or four eggs, and then like a bagel, and then um like some yogurt, and then I you know have my electrolyte drink. Um, I put some BCAs in there for caffeine. I don't drink any energy drinks when I'm um competing because I like to be able to control my heart rate. Yeah, when I drink energy drinks, and I'm sure you know too, like when I'm and my heart rate spikes, I can't control, I have no control over it basically. Yeah, and so and then my adrenaline is enough, right? So I don't really need that stuff. Um, and then I would just you know come back, have the carbs, the protein, the protein shake, electrolytes, and then try to get food like chicken, rice, beef, rice, turkey, uh, sandwiches, stuff like that, like whole foods was huge for me. Um, and then uh at night I would just eat, dude. Like eat a lot. Because I was getting ready for the next day, you know. Um, so that would just be like chicken and rice. Um we had spaghetti, like some type of like pasta would be huge, like the night before.

SPEAKER_01 45:05

Um just thick carb. I know you eat relatively healthy and whatnot. Like you're paying attention to that.

SPEAKER_02 45:11

Like I don't track my macros or anything like that, but basically, no matter what, every day I have the same breakfast of four eggs, uh, bagel with cream cheese, and then um fruit and yogurt. It's like not fat Greek yogurt. Um, and then for lunch, I'll do like the tempo meals, so it's like home fresh meals. Um, those will usually be like beef, uh like a fiesta chicken and rice, or uh like yesterday it was like sweet potatoes and beef with rice, just like that, and then um like a banana and a protein shake, and then dinner is usually bigger for me. Like last night I had spaghetti. The night before I had uh what was it? It was like fajita like taco things. Right. Um so yeah, I I eat like really pretty healthy. Um if you were to guess, roughly like how many calories are you picking up? Uh dude, I don't know, maybe like 35 to 4. Okay, like that's right around like what I eat. Yeah, like I think I think like if I if I skip lunch, then because I I'm notorious for skipping lunch. I'm just because I'm working out or I'm doing something, then my dinners are huge, which I I like, but I don't like because then I I like don't like falling asleep with the super heavy stomach.

SPEAKER_01 46:29

Yeah, it it impacts your sleep if you eat too close to bedtime. Yeah, like sure you can have a big dinner and whatnot, but it's just the timing of everything. 100%. Like if I'm gonna do that, I try to I try to do that like at like two at least two and a half hours before bed. Yeah. But there are a lot of times where it's like yeah, 30, 40 minutes before bed and I'm stuffing my face.

SPEAKER_02 46:52

When I like eat too close to bed, like I'll just burp like my life away when I'm laying down. So then I'll like be sitting up and I'll just be like burping in Taylor's like, Zach, can you please stop? And I'm like, dude, I don't know, it's like an acid reflux thing.

SPEAKER_01 47:10

Like I just burp from laying back on like a full stomach.

SPEAKER_02 47:13

Yeah, dude, it's so bad. It's so bad. So yeah, that's kind of like what I try to eat every day. And then I just I try to snack really healthy, like I mean, healthy, like chomps, um, like go bars, yeah, uh fig bars.

SPEAKER_01 47:30

Um but it's also not uncommon for like CrossFit athletes to eat like a Snickers or like fruit snacks and stuff like that. Well, I have that's like during training, right? Just easy, quick sugar, like and kind of same with ultra runners, too. If you look at one of some of these aid stations, like any type of candy you can think of is sitting there, cookies, yeah, soda, all that stuff.

SPEAKER_02 47:53

Anything goes during races, but yeah, I will you need like to replace all the like glucose and all that thing, things you've lost. So, like for me, uh a big thing is like go-go squeeze. Yeah, I just pound go-go squeeze right before workout and then after. And then I bought um two packs of those sport beans. Oh, yeah, yeah. I've been doing pounding money, yeah, before my workouts too, which is helped a ton. So, but again, dude, had no idea how to do this up until like literally probably like December of this past year, like 2025, December, because I just never was around people doing it, um, never knew like how to fuel my body to like prepare for the workout, just because like I just didn't know, you know, and with basketball, it was like for practice, we we practice at like 5 a.m. So you don't eat before practice, yeah. Um, and then we'd always have games, which we'd have team dinners, and so like the games like everybody would just be eating the same thing, yeah. Um, and it was never like, oh, this is what I'm gonna have before the game every single time. Like it was just different, whatever we ate as a team, so yeah, it's been a lot, a lot, and it's like now it's just getting more expensive trying to fuel myself, you know. It sucks, dude. Costco runs are getting bad, but uh it's so easy to run the pillow.

SPEAKER_01 49:14

Oh, 100%, dude. Because you just keep going. I try to stay away, dude. I try to stay away from Costco. I I try to go there only like once or twice a month at the most, and just get like only what I need. Yeah, otherwise, dude, I grab too much stuff, and I don't even eat it. Yeah, I'll just grab it. Yeah. Um, take me through just a day off shift what your typical training is like. Say you're done with competition, like you don't have a competition for a while. What's like a hard training day look like for you? Just in all other day-to-day. Yeah, dude.

SPEAKER_02 49:51

Um, let me just read off what I have.

SPEAKER_01 49:55

Uh let's think of a day that like really sucked. Are you an early morning dude? No. No. What time are you typically like?

SPEAKER_02 50:04

Like, um, I usually start at like 10. First training session? Yeah, if if I'm getting off shift, I have to go early morning because I'm already there and I'm already up, so I'm like, I'll just go. Yeah, I just kind of grind it out. When I'm usually when I get off shift is like when I do my emoms.

SPEAKER_01 50:22

So like do you have a um a specific morning routine, or do you kind of just go with the flow? Uh like if I'm like you're saying when I'm off shift, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 50:33

Yeah, I'll basically just wake up um and then I'll go downstairs, I'll start my um cooking. Um, so I'll just do my eggs, my bagels, um, and then uh after that I'll like go on YouTube or something like that, and then just like chill, relax a little bit, let my food digest. Every morning I have like two or three glasses of water before I have any coffee or anything like that. Um, and then you know, I'll just hop in the shower and get ready for my day. I don't like sauna, cold plunge or anything like that. Um during the summertime, I was doing better about like getting exposed to like bright lights um and just like walking outside and doing like a sunshine walk in the morning or something like that. But um, I kind of suck at doing that because I'm like, I want to sleep in a little bit. But yeah. Um yeah, so like today what I did was four sets, um, and it was one every seven minutes of a 400-meter run, six doubles press with 70-pound dumbbells, six ring muscle ups, and then 20 wall balls with 30-pound ball. Um, and you just do this every seven minutes, and then as soon as you get done, you have 25 minutes of uh zone two and just nasal breathing only. And then my heart rate needs to be 130 to 145 throughout that. Um soon as I get done with that, I'll do um I did every two minutes and 30 seconds, six to eight sets of two power cleans, and then one split jerk, um, moving on to a jerk footwork drill of three sets, five behind the neck split jerks, and then straight into single arm dumbbell overhead walking lunges with 50 foot. Um and then we do gymnastics, so we did five sets, 18 GHDs, six pistols each side, two sets, 30-second freestanding handstand hold, and then a pendula row, uh, two sets uh by five. What's a pendula row? It's just like a basically a bent over row. Oh, okay. Uh, and then after each set, you're doing 30 to 45 seconds of front rack holds with straps. Um, that's literally what I did right before I came here. Hold with straps. I didn't have straps, but I just it's just a front rack barbell hold with 135. Yeah, just to get like because your heart rate's already up, so it just hurts even more. Um and then like on shift is when um I really struggle with trying to figure out my workouts, and I've talked to my coach about this a ton, but like, dude, suicide suicide mission workouts on shift is kind of dangerous, you know, just because like like for example, we had that fire uh a couple of days ago. I had just got done doing um rolling intervals, and so we were at that fire. And I was like, we were doing work, and so like I just got doing all doing all these intervals, and then I go straight into that, and like I was gassed. Yeah, and it's like you know, I'm able to hold on to it because like I'm I can do it, but I sometimes have to be careful when I'm on shift because like I don't want to expel too much energy because I need to do my job, you know. So um, so I I'm very very intentional of what I do on shift, but like for example, what I did last shift was six sets of a 10-second um RPE of 10 plus assault bike. And if anybody out there doesn't know what RPE means, it is rate, it means rate of perceived effort. So like if it's RPE 10, it means you're going 10 out of 10 as hard as you can directly into 20 line facing burpees and then 21 cow assault bike. Um and then I did three sets of 1500 meter rowing intervals. So I didn't know you got through that, and then you were on the rowing intervals, and then we got the rowing intervals. Oh, you finished and then I went back, took a shower, ate, and then went through the side. Okay, at least you got to eat. I thought you were in the middle of the row. No, no, no, no, no. I at least I got to eat and like get fueled up and like have that electrolyte. So I was ready to go, but there is always that thought, and I'm sure you have when you're running too, when like you keep putting up your speed, and you're like, oh, and then if you get a call, you're like, oh shoot.

SPEAKER_01 54:55

Yeah, yeah. It when I'm on shift, like I have it pretty dialed in now to where I'm like I'm only doing body weight stuff if I'm lifting, so that's literally always just um like a variation of the merf, pull up push-ups or air squats, and then I'm always running for at least like an hour, yeah. And that changes, like I'm never going balls out on a on a run at work. I'm just trotting, just jogging on the treadmill. Yeah, and then if I have more time in the day, I'll I like to get yoga in like either right before bed or just right after. Yeah, yeah. So I like to do 20 to 30 minutes of that while I'm on shift too. So it's all relatively like light, yeah. Um, but just still moving, getting a good sweat going, and just still logging miles and whatnot. But what I'm gonna start doing here more is the stair climber at work, because also that's just it, it wears you down, it burns your legs, obviously, but it's not as strenuous as just running on the treadmill. And like you said, dude, when you're when you're worn down and then you just get destroyed at a fire, like you're just beat up 100%. Luckily for you, that was just a debit, so you were just on a 24. But if you were there the next day and then had to work out again, and then what if we get another fire or something?

SPEAKER_02 56:07

Like not at 100% produce fire, and like for my first day on ship, usually it's always something white just because I know I have day two. Um, and then if it's day two, like you know, mid-afternoon or something like that, and we're kind of done, we've washed the rigs, we've done all we needed done, we drilled all that stuff. Like, I'll send it a little bit, you know, because I'm like, you know, a 20, you can't break me from here, yeah. But if it's like day one of a 48, like I'm pretty careful about like what I'm doing because I just it's my job means like it, I need to do my job. Yeah, so it's how we make our money.

SPEAKER_01 56:44

100%. It's how I'm able to do the crossfit stuff. So it's like I care about that more. So just something that I'm super blessed about, too. I honestly wouldn't be able to be excelling as quickly as I have been in the last year or so if it wasn't for our schedule and the career that we have. Yeah, yes, it's stressful, yes, it wears you down from time to time. Yeah, but like the work-life balance that we have, I'm not I'm not um what's the word I'm looking for? I fully understand that some people may look at it as unfair, like I know how how cool it is to and how I'm just super grateful, is basically what I'm saying for the life and the career that we have. Yeah, but um, but yeah, dude, we never would be able, or not we, me, I never would be able to be training how I am as well.

SPEAKER_02 57:34

Well and I think too, like it goes to speak like for our careers, like people know us at work for like, and what I would hope that people would know us at work for is like super hard workers. Um part of the motivation to do that is because I love the job. The second part of it um is because it feeds my family, and then third is like for me, I want to work so hard and keep this job because I love the lifestyle I have, yeah, and I don't want to give that up, you know, and so I will drill as much as I can, I will do as many JTC things as I can, I will study my butt off in order to make sure that like I'm not gonna mess this up, you know. And I think it goes to say, like, for you too, you're in the same boat. Like when we're at work, we're always drilling, we're doing something. I mean, last shift we drilled for three hours, just you and me, you know. So there's always something to be said with that. And I think I we still gotta work at it, yeah, exactly. And like for like I think you and I both know like how hard it was to get to this position, and there's still people fighting to be in this position, and it's one of those things where it's like I'm not gonna give this up that easily, you know what I mean? And so like I think for us and for a lot of our firefighters that work with us, like we want to work so hard for the people that we serve to, right? But also like because we this means a lot, you know.

SPEAKER_01 59:01

So I've had a couple bumps in the road here in the city. Well, yeah, but at the same time, I'm like stowed here, yeah, stowed here babies, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 59:08

If you get our check next week, yeah. So yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 59:14

Um there's I don't want to like I'm trying to think of how to phrase this without it being cliche, yeah. But what do you think, like looking back a year ago to where you progressed to till now, what do you think going into the future, everything you've done and learned from this year, um CrossFit-wise, what is going to set you apart and what is gonna make you get to that next level? That's a good question.

SPEAKER_02 59:43

Yeah, um well, I think for me, like getting on with a coach was like huge because I was just doing classes um at the the roofs, the cross region I was going to before. Like I didn't have any structure, and so getting on with Steve like has helped me and actually enabled me to like stick to a structure and actually hone in on weaknesses and not just like focus on strengths because that's what I was doing is I was like hone in on strengths and like don't care about your weaknesses, yeah, which is like the opposite of what you want to do. I think for me, one thing that I really need to get better at is running. Um, and then I've talked with Steve about this too, is like aerobic, just overall aerobic conditioning. Um I'm pretty confident in my ability to do very short, anaerobic, like high heart rate, heavy stuff. Um, when it gets like 20-minute workouts, 25-minute workouts, that's when I start to kind of struggle. And it's not the point where I struggle where like I stop, like I can't do it. It's just like I'm not where I want to be. And even like a 15-minute AMRAP, like I need to be better at this because like I don't really have a problem with pacing. It's not so much that like I come out too fast or like I'm not pacing it well enough, it's more just like I just break down and like I'll fall off. And it's in you know, at this level that like I want to be at, you can't really do that. Like you kind of have to be consistent throughout, or if anything, get faster. So I would say for me, I need to focus on my running, I need to focus on like my Olympic lifting technique. It's gotten tremendously better, yeah. Because you have the strength, yeah. But it's more about putting together and then um, like honestly, just being able to like stick with the program and trust my coach, trust people around me that like this is what this is gonna work, you know. Um, and the cool thing about Steve is like he he'll change things up too. Yeah, and I'm sure your coach does that too, but like you'll he'll change things up based off of like how that last week went. Like, if the last week went terrible and like I did handstand push-ups and I couldn't do them, then he'll be like, Okay, we're gonna do handstand push-up drills next week. So it's never the same week, yeah. You know, which is really nice. Um, because you're always it's always getting changed up. So but yeah, for sure, running after the 3K beach run at what Apple is dude. Like, I was like, Yeah, this is bad. This is really how how are you gonna improve on that? Um, well, like kind of what I sent you the other day, like just those 400 meter splits that I was doing, that's gonna be huge. Um, every single day throughout this week, I've done some form of zone two, um, which I never really have done before. Um, he's always had it, but I've kind of just honestly like I've done it, but I haven't been focusing on it as much as I need to be. Yeah. Um, and then now I'm like, okay, like I'm gonna make sure I do this. So even zone two stuff I'll do at work all the time.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:47

Dude, that's what I was just gonna say. The number one way you get better at running is just running more, even if you're running slow miles, yeah, just getting more time on feet and just trotting away, logging miles, that's gonna help you even like say every day that you go to the gym, start with an easy mile jog before you jump into your warmup or gym. Yeah. Do that, and then before you leave the gym, another mile. Right there, that's depending on how fast or slow you're going, that's 12 to 15, 20 minutes of just like easy jogging, but that's still gonna build your aerobic base. Yeah. And I don't know, there's just a ton of little things that you can do to get better at running, but yeah, I've gotten a lot better with like barely any speed work, and it's just a lot of just like easy miles, but a lot of miles. A lot of miles, yeah. As of lately, I've been trying to do 10 plus miles a day. Um and then uh on weeks where like I'm two to three weeks out from a big race, or even further than that, I'll hit anywhere from 80 to 100 miles in that week, and then I'll start tapering down. Like this week, so far I've literally only done nine miles because I have the 50 on Saturday. So I did like six miles on Monday and then a mile a day all the way up until the race. So have you ever done a day worth no running? Uh not this year. Really? Not this year yet. I haven't taken a day off. Yeah, but yeah, I have last year, um, there was multiple times where as I was tapering into a race, I would take like two to three days off before that. But for whatever reason, like, and it wouldn't hurt me to do that still, but for whatever reason going into this year, I told myself I'm gonna run every single day, even if it's just a mile. So I've been consistent with that. But if there ever comes a time where like I absolutely need a day off, yeah, I'm not gonna hold. Yeah, like I didn't outwardly tell anyone that like running every day this year is just kind of something I internally made with myself. That's awesome. But um, yeah, but yeah, if something flares up where I'm like, dude, I need to take a fucking day off, I'll take a day off. It's not that big of a deal. Yeah, because ultimate goal, dude, like everything that I'm doing this year is to set me up for success at Bigfoot. Yeah, um, that's just how my mindset has been going into this year. Yeah. Because I'm just as excited as I am scared for this race. Uh but yeah, I'm stoked. There's so many unknowns about it.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:18

Yeah, it's just that's the best part. Yeah, is like you're never gonna get better if you don't take that leap of faith, you know, and see what happens. Yeah, it's like, oh yeah. If this goes well, it goes well. If it doesn't, it doesn't. You learn regardless, yeah. And you get better in something regardless.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:33

Yeah, um, something that I was gonna bring up earlier when you started talking about Wadapalooza, ring muscle ups. Yeah. I remember a while back um we were doing ring muscle ups at uh where was it? Is that the roost? Yeah, it must have been, yeah. And you you were getting better at them, but you still were only stringing like three or four together at a time.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:58

How like what did you do? Because So many people, like there, I know a ton of people that are really good at CrossFit, really good at a bunch of movements, but ring muscle ups are the fucking things that like people just for whatever reason just can't get better at. Yeah. What did you do? Because now I heard you you said at the end of the open work or quarterfinals, yeah. At the end of the workout, you're busting out a set of seven. Yeah. And then finishing 20 to 30 of them.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:23

What do you do to get better at those?

SPEAKER_02 1:06:24

I think the biggest thing that people can do that'll help them is accessory work. It sounds stupid and like it sounds like it's not gonna help you, but like when you focus and hone in on like your accessory stuff, it's so important. Like think about it. Like, if you just do more ring muscle ups, you're not really gonna get better because you're not like it's not efficient. And if you are if you can't do one and you just keep trying to do one, like there's gonna be something that's limiting you from doing that, right? Yeah, so um you can do like drills so like people can like like ring rows would help a ton being able to like get your chest to the ring, learn that whole motion, but then learning like the basics and the technique of it too, um, is gonna be super important, and like um there's a ton of drill you can do. Like, if you have the rings here, you can like start on the ground or like start just focusing up on here and then like flip over like that super fast. Um, people do that all the time. Strengthen your shoulders, um, any like handstand push-ups and things like that to be able to get your shoulders that where you want them is gonna be huge. Um, and then uh what I did too is like I just watch people, so like watching the CrossFit Games athletes in slow motion, um, watching like how they do their form and all that stuff, and then now I'm like, okay, I'm gonna do that. And then I videotape myself, and I'm like, I look nothing like that. Like, I need to go back to the drawing board. What did I do wrong? Yeah, um, and then once you get that down, then you can start doing more ring muscle ups. And that sounds stupid, but like there's no point in trying to just focus on doing them if you can't do them. Yeah, you gotta break it down into movement, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:06

Same as Olympic lifting, yeah, exactly. You gotta break it down into your deadlift, yeah, to your pole, yeah, to the into the transition, rotating the body underneath the bars.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:16

Yeah, dude.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:17

Now we're like my coach has us doing ring muscle ups like with weight vests on and like rug packs on, and like we're doing that, and then now when we do them in a workout when we're already tired, like it's not that bad, you know. Like today, that ring muscle up, it was like four rounds, six ring muscle ups. Like, I went unbroken the whole time, which I was like super happy with, but like even three months ago, I probably wouldn't have been able to do that. But like I've just been honing in on like the accessory stuff he has for me, um, and then just reps and reps once you get it down.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:49

So yeah, dude. What what are your thoughts on people using bands to work on pull-ups?

SPEAKER_02 1:08:55

Because I have an opinion on it, but I just um well I think there's two things. I think if you can't do it and like you want to use a band, like and you're trying to do it in the workout, you can always do that. Like that's you know, it is what it is, but then you get the thing where it's like, are you really getting better at it? You know, and so um it's like it'd be like using this is a really stupid analogy, but it'd be like if you're squatting and then like you're having two friends help you lift the weight.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:31

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:31

Yes, and so it's like, yeah, you're getting better because you're squatting, you're still squatting, but like you're not getting better at that exact movement. So I would say, like, honestly, and I tell people this at CrossFit Devotion too, like, don't like try to do something that like you're just because everybody else is doing it, like lower the weight. Like, it's really it's actually way better for you to lower the weight. It's actually way better for you to do ring rows instead of pull-ups or anything else, because or like uh we have like J bars, you can hook those up and do them that way, versus like trying to do the pull-ups that way because like you're not getting better at it, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 1:10:13

Yeah, so I know exactly what you're saying, but it's like you hit it right on the money because that's my exact opinion on it, too. Because I see a lot of people who never improve on their pull-ups, yeah, and they're always using a band, and they're like, Oh, well, I'll just go down into the less resistance bands. But it's like you're never gonna feel that same weight. You gotta start. If you want less resistance, do ring rows at an angle, yeah, and then get good at that, and then start doing like half pull-up, do a jumping pull-up and control the descent. Yes. Like, yeah, even if you're just doing one or two reps, it's way better than doing 10 reps with a band. Yeah. But I just think people, I don't know, they look at that and they're like, Well, I want to be able to do five at a time.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:59

It's like you're never actually gonna be able to do five at a time if you keep using the band. Dude, that's the thing about CrossFit that I think I love too, and I'm sure you feel the same with running, is like it really is a marathon, not a sprint. Like, it's actually one of the most humbling sports ever because there's so many things they get good at, and there's so many things you're already bad at. Yeah. And so, like, there's always something to work on, you know. And so um, I think people think they see the CrossFit athletes, the elite athletes in the games and stuff like that, and they're like, Oh, I can do that stuff, you know. I they they got there so fast, and it's like, dude, I guarantee you that like Justin Madero, James Sprague, all those guys are doing accessory work the same exact they're doing ring rose too. They're just doing they're doing everything differently, or they're doing everything the same, but you don't see that side of it, you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:54

What do you think is the separator between someone like a CrossFit champion to someone who's just consistently making semifinals and never making the games? Like, what is the separator there? That's a really good question. I know it's different for everybody because everyone has their strengths and their weaknesses, but like at the fundamental level, I feel like there's got to be one thing. Yeah, and I think you just answered it right there. But I just want to hear what you say.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:20

I think there's two. I think one of them is like there's a lot of semifinal guys that like have jobs and like actually have a career. That's yeah, so like they're CrossFit athletes, like most of the games athletes, like that's that's their job, you know what I mean. But do you think do you think all those dudes were always like that? No, no, no. I'm just saying, like, in in general, like that they a lot, a lot of them like that is their job, and like they eventually got to the point where they may have quit their job because they're like, I'm really good at CrossFit, I'm gonna go like put all the marbles in on this and see what happens. The other thing too is I genuinely think that like when people skip steps, they don't they don't get better. So, like when you skip like your accessory stuff, yeah, when you skip like your zone to stuff, yeah, um, when you skip for me that's something I'm always so bad at is my mobility stuff because I'm just like, oh, I'm tired, I'll do it at home, and I never do it at home. Um, when you skip like those certain steps, people again, dude, people only see what they see, right? So like on Instagram, they're just gonna see like all the big man guys doing the open, but they didn't see like like all those guys like sitting in a front rack position for three minutes because they need to get their front rack better, and they did that for three sets. They just saw them lift squatting 500 pounds, they didn't see them squatting 135 50 times, yeah to get there, to get there, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:45

So I think that like that's that's the issue with social media too.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:50

Yeah, dude, is like people have this like totally different view of like what it actually is, and like these guys, these professional athletes, these crossfoot athletes, like they're doing all the little things to make it to that point, yeah. And that's what matters is they're consistently showing up every single day doing the boring stuff, yeah. And then there's a lot of guys that want to skip that that want to max out their lifts every single like session, yeah. And then like the coach says go RPE at eight, and they're like, No, I'm doing 10. And it's like, dude, like there's a reason why these guys are like how they are, and it's because they did the boring stuff, like zone two stuff, that stuff sucks, yeah, especially for CrossFit, like sitting on a bike for 30 minutes, just staring at nothing is terrible. Watching your heart rate, and you're like, but like that's what's that's what matters, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 1:14:45

So yeah, they're they're showing up, they're doing the 30-minute warm-ups of all making sure their body's prime so they're not gonna get injured, yes, feel great, like they're looking at longevity-wise too. Yeah, yeah. And uh that's also something like I've been watching a lot of Jason Hopper's YouTube. I love that guy, yeah. Yeah, he's he's a beast, but he talks openly a lot about like his training with Matt. Like he probably could have won the games a couple years ago, yeah, when he first, but he just was training the way Matt used to train. It's totally different. The way Matt used to train was good for Matt. Yeah. And it was he always says it was just too much and he was going too hard. And like you just said right there, like you gotta know when to dial it back and have that balance of like just being smart and very intentional with your training, yeah. Uh, which is something that I need to start paying attention to a little bit more, and I kind of have been, but um, you just you gotta pick and choose the days when you're going balls out, yeah. And then the days like 80 to 90 percent of the time, you should just be like you were saying, focusing on the accessory work, focusing on all the skill stuff, all the fundamentals, yeah. Just keeping that base of everything and building your engine and all that, and slowly building strength and following because CrossFit always follows like 10 to 12 week cycles, yeah. You're always just like slowly not every day, you're not hitting a hundred percent, which is not maxing out.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:08

It's so boring, dude. Like, trust me, I know, and I'm sure you know, like running on a treadmill for an hour is not the funnest thing ever, you know, but like it's something that you have to just have to get done, and I think for me, like I've had I've had some non-negotiables. One of those non-negotiables for me is stretching and then accessory work, like it's just a non-negotiable, like I have to get it done, you know, because I like I know and I I I know from basketball too, like the boring stuff matters, absolutely. So yeah, how how much stretching a day are you doing? Uh probab I'll do like 15 to maybe 15 minutes to 20 minutes before my workout. Um, so whether that be like rolling out or you know, doing my normal stretching and then getting on the the on bike and doing some of that, and then I try to do something every night, uh, whether that be like my normal tech boots and then getting into some mobility stuff. Um, I don't follow like a specific uh go-wad or anything like that. Steve, my coach, has set me up with like something for my hip and my ankles because my ankle is bad, and then now I have my hip issue too. Um, so I would say maybe like 30, 30 minutes a day. I need to be doing way more, like 45 minutes a day, you know. And I'm sure I I know you stretch, like you're a stretch of god, dude. Yoga and stuff.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:30

I yeah, I I love yoga, but it's hitter, like like you said, it's it's like anything else. Like you gotta stay consistent with it. And if you take a day off, it's that much harder to start again the next day, even if it's just taking one day off. Yeah, um, but yeah, I do I pretty similar to you. I it's not specific to where like I need to get in before, like right after or whatnot, but it's just it's kind of like taking supplements. I gotta get it in within the day at some point, and it's anywhere from 20 minutes to an hour. Yeah. Um, like after we're done here, like I'm gonna hit probably 30 minutes, 30 to 45 minutes.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:03

But um, yeah, dude. I think I need to do because it's like what else? I'm just gonna be going on my phone with the other 30 minutes that I'm wasting, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 1:18:11

And you still like sometimes I still am on my phone while I'm just sitting in static stretches. If I'm doing actual yoga, then I'm not because like you're doing a full following a video and like moving around a lot. But static stretching, I'll be staring at my phone chill watching YouTube or something like that. Something that I'm super intrigued with, like obviously recovery stuff, but I also am intrigued with like longevity and like all the supplementation, just overall health. Yeah, uh I know we talked a little bit about stretching for you, but like what other things recovery-wise? I know earlier you said you you eating is essential for recovery, yeah. But uh are you paying attention to your sleep? Aside from stretching, are you doing anything else like massage or do you see a chiropractor like anything?

SPEAKER_02 1:18:55

Yeah, so I I try to see uh a massage therapist like at least once or twice a month. I go to I don't know if you met her, her name's Krista. Yeah, I went to her, I think like twice. Yeah, I did, but yeah, I love her. She's awesome. Yeah, she's awesome. Um, she's been pretty booked out recently. Um, but I've seen her on a couple like on the 20th of this month. So I try to see her as much as I can for like cupping and stuff like that. And then if anybody knows me, like Hunter, my wife, people that I'm really close with, sleep is like huge for me. Yeah. Uh like I go to bed like every single night if I'm on shift, like at 8:45 and 9, and I'll sit in bed maybe at 9.30. I just crash immediately. Yeah. So every single night I take uh five milligrams of magnesium through first form.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:44

Powder capsule.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:45

Yeah, so I'll just dry scoop it and then just pound some water. Um, and then if I'm really feeling really tired, I'll take some melatonin too. Um, but magnesium is a non-negotiable, and on shift, I'll do magnesium glycinate pills because it's a little less, you know, if I it doesn't kill me as well. I try, I try to stay away from anything that makes me sleep. Yeah, it's like for magnesium for me, it doesn't make me uh like fall asleep, it helps me stay asleep and get like a deeper sleep. So I would highly recommend it because like, dude, it's it's changed my life tremendously, especially asleep. I've done it before, just capsules though, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:20

But I know the powder is more effective for helping your sleep, and I know L-theanine is good too, yeah, um, which I take every day too.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:28

Yeah, and then on shift, I'm sure you do the same thing. I try to go to bed at the same time that I do at home, which is around like I try to like just be chilling out around nine or so um because like I want to have try to keep a sane routine, right? Like you don't want to get two days is long, you know. So like you don't want to like two days of like going to bed at 11 and then you try to get home, you try to go to bed at 8 30, and it's like that doesn't work very well. So what about you? What do you do?

SPEAKER_01 1:20:55

Recovery-wise, yeah. Um, so every single day, I'll just start with the sleep thing because I'm hit or miss with sleep too. Like I try to be in bed like like you, like 45, 9-ish, but ultimately at the end of the day, I just watch the time and I'm trying to be in bed before 10 p.m. Um, but I'm always shooting for seven to nine hours of sleep, which I don't always get. Yeah, but um I try not to like let that impact what I do for my day-to-day. I know it's important to get sleep and I do prioritize it, but like if I wake up and I've only got like six hours and fifty, there's still shit that I gotta get done and I still gotta go about my day-to-day. So yeah, um, I I try not to get caught up in the data too much with that. But in terms of everything else recovery-wise, like we already talked about, I'm doing anywhere from 20 to 60 minutes of yoga every single day. Um, my Theragun, I use that entire battery on my entire body every single day. Jeez. And then uh I have the Normitec compression boots, and it's the one with the red light and the vibration, and then the compression. So I do at least an hour of those, sometimes like three hours. Like anytime I'm sitting here chilling at night, I have them on. Yeah. Um, so that's anywhere from one to three hours in the afternoon when I'm just chilling, reading, just sitting around, not doing anything. And then I also I try to time it out to where I do this right after I'm done with the run, but I'm always I'm hitting the sauna in the cold plunge every single day that I'm not on shift. Yeah. And there's some days where I don't make it there or whatnot, and kind of like taking supplements too. It's just like I just got to get it in at some point during the day. But there has been a lot of studies that have came out that have shown if you get in the sauna right after uh cardio. Yeah, your heart rate's at that level, yeah. Yeah, it's but it also stimulates or simulates high altitude training and helps build red blood cells. So that's I don't know if it works or not, but like ever since I have been consistently doing the sauna cold plunge. My sleep has been better. I feel like I've been recovering a little bit faster. Yeah, dude. Um, there isn't a ton of research out on the cold plunge, but I feel like even if it's placebo, like I feel like mentally it still helps me, but I don't absolutely prioritize the cold plunge. If I need if I'm getting close on time, I will 100% just do 15 minutes in the sauna, 15, 20 minutes, and then get out of there. But if I am doing the cold plunge, I always end with the cold, and it's anywhere from two to five minutes in the cold, and from 40 degrees up to like 47 degrees in that range. Um, so that's basically what I do. Aside from that, I'm just trying to feel appropriately that and it changes from day to day what I'm eating and how much I'm eating. But I eat relatively normal, like three three decent sized meals, and then um just snack here and there whenever I'm hungry. And yeah, kind of like you, I just try to stay away from processed stuff. And but at the end of the day, if I feel like having a burger and fries, I'll I'll eat a burger and fries because I know I'm I know I'm gonna burn it off. Yeah, I don't do it every single day, so I know it won't hurt me. Yeah, um, but yeah, that's that's pretty much it. Um but yeah, I can't really think of anything else other than supplementation. Yeah, the the list of pills that I take is I couldn't even tell you off the top of my head all the pills that I take. Yeah, last year I was going to P3 down into all of which you know about this place. But um, for those that don't know, it's they do your blood work and all that stuff. And I went four times last year, once a quarter, and every time they literally do a panel on absolutely like everything in your system. So they just kind of dial you in on what supplements you should be taking, what supplements you should stop taking. Um, so just from doing that for a year straight, I kind of have dialed in exactly what I need to be taking supplementation-wise. So I do. Um so yeah, I I feel like I'm pretty dialed on that. I take creatine. Yeah, um, I do some carbohydrate powder mixes, like the G1M Spore every once in a while. I'm not taking that every single day on my runs. Yeah. But yeah, do that creatine. I mix protein powder in my coffee every morning. Yeah, but for the most part, I never like meal-wise, I I'm always getting like actual meat for my protein. Yeah, I'm not doing more than one scoop of powdered. Yeah, yeah. But yeah, that's pretty that's pretty much it from what I can think of. Yeah, but yeah. Oh, I have a red light panel too, a little one. Oh, I'm asking me about that. I like to sit in front of that. I don't know if that's helps at all or not, but same thing. I see a lot of studies out, and it seems like it's good, yeah, you know, but I can't tell a huge difference from when I do it and when I don't. I think it's one of those things that like you gotta stay super consistent. Yeah, yeah, just gotta keep doing it and see what happens. Yeah, but but yeah. Cool, man. Well, um, trying to think, is there anything else?

SPEAKER_02 1:26:10

No, dude, just hopefully we can get more people on this um hunter. I know Zach Sloniker wants to get on. Yeah, that'd be fun. Kelsey would be cool too, just because of her story with kids and dancing the Iron Man and all that stuff too. She did.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:24

We should start a series of like me and you, and then we bring a bunch of people. Yeah, dude. Yeah, it'd be sweet. We'll talk about it. Yeah. We got more in the books. But before we get out of here, let everyone know uh Instagram, all that stuff, like where they can find.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:37

My uh Instagram handle is underscore z Richardson4. Um that's really all only social media I have. I would I I want to get on what's time type of time Steven's on and do a YouTube channel, but I'm too scared. So maybe one day we'll see.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:52

We'll get him on it. Yeah, we'll get him on it. So you can well thanks for coming on. Of course, man. Yeah, thanks for having me. Hell yeah. Sweet day.