Failure is Not Final - Part 4

Welcome to Right Beside You in the Pulpit with Dr. Stephen Rummage! 

During this episode Dr. Rummage leads a group conversation with other pastors from around Florida.  Hear more thoughts on their approach to the passage in a group format.  

Guests:  
Scott Wilson, Lead Pastor at FBC Melbourne 
Steven Kyle, Senior Pastor at Hiland Park in Panama City 

Over a four-week series, we’ll focus on a single sermon—tracing the journey from initial preparation all the way to the closing invitation on Sunday morning. Each month, we’ll also gather around the table with pastors from across our state to hear insights from their unique preaching rhythms, contexts, and experiences. 

As you listen, our prayer is that you’ll find encouragement and practical help to strengthen your weekly preaching of God’s Word. 

This podcast is funded by the generous Cooperative Program giving of Florida Baptist churches.  

If you have any questions about this episode, please email communications@flbaptist.org.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:01

Welcome to Right Beside You in the Pulpit with Dr. Stephen Rummage, a series geared to help strengthen your preaching of God's Word and encourage us together along the way.

SPEAKER_00 0:13

Hey, pastors and church leaders, this is Stephen Rummage, and welcome to Right Beside You in the Pulpit. This podcast is created for pastors and for preachers, men who love God's Word, who carry the weight of preaching Sunday after Sunday, and who need encouragement and insight and fellowship along the way. My goal is to walk right beside you in the pulpit as we open scripture together and as we learn from one another. This month we've been looking at Mark chapter 14, verses 66 through 72. It's an incredible passage. I recently preached a sermon on this text called Failure Is Not Final, and I'm really grateful to be joined by two faithful pastors, good friends of mine, pastors here in the state of Florida, who have studied this passage along the way and lived its truth in real ministry context. So I'm thankful to welcome to the podcast today Scott Wilson, who's lead pastor at First Baptist Church Melbourne, Florida, and Stephen Kyle, senior pastor at Highland Park Baptist Church in Panama City, Florida. Brother Scott, Brother Stephen, welcome. I'm so thankful to have you here today.

SPEAKER_01 1:16

Good to be with you. Yeah, Dr.

SPEAKER_00 1:17

Roman, it's what an honor. Thank you. Well, it's great to have you guys with me. And uh so I want to just start by looking at the text itself and to ask you as you look at this passage, and not only this passage, we know that this passage occurs in all three of the synoptic gospels. It's in Matthew, Mark, and Luke. So as you look at this text, what stands out to you most about both the Mark 14 passage that we're looking at in this sermon, and then the whole story of Peter's denial? What stands out to you? Scott, what would you say?

SPEAKER_01 1:51

Well, Peter is such an interesting uh character, you know, as you read through the gospel accounts, and I think he's so relatable, you know, to us in many ways. Uh sometimes he gets it right, and uh sometimes he gets it, you know, really wrong. And uh this is a case, you know, of course, where Peter was so confident uh, you know, earlier that evening, right, when Jesus uh talked about how his disciples uh would all uh run away and and uh forsake him. And uh, of course, Peter, you know, said, uh, even if everyone else uh does that, I'm I'm not gonna do that. And uh, of course, Jesus uh warns him about what's coming. Uh and uh then we see, of course, his uh his failure in that moment uh there in the courtyard. Uh but I think it's so relatable, you know, to us and it serves as a warning to us that uh Peter was uh a great, great man of God, uh, of course, a work in progress like all of us. Uh, but to see that um uh you know him him fail in that moment, I think is a reminder of the warning we read in scripture about let him who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall, uh, that any of us are susceptible uh to falling and uh should cause us uh to just want to cling to the Lord that much more tightly.

SPEAKER_00 3:05

Stephen, when you look at this passage and when you think about Peter, what are some of the things that that resonate with you personally just as a man? And then also what are some things that you feel like connect with people in your congregation as you preach from these texts?

SPEAKER_03 3:19

Yeah, I uh I kind of agree with what Scott said. We we can all identify with Peter, that we've all found ourselves sitting there uh saying something and then immediately thinking, I can't believe I just said that. Uh and with the sermon that you preached, Dr. Rummage, you used the illustration about the uh uh the the what was supposed to be the gold medalist ice skater, and uh I blew it. I blew it. We've all said those words, I blew it. And so I think uh I think one of the great things about this story is we see ourselves in Peter. Um and uh if if Peter, somebody who walked with Jesus and saw Jesus perform the miracles and uh had that personal intimate relationship so close to Christ, if anybody like Peter can fail, then anybody can fail. Um and I would say as well, if anybody, well, if Peter can be restored, anybody can be restored. Uh, you know, I uh uh I would sit there and say, goodness, I have I have failed the Lord, but I've never denied him. Uh so uh, you know, we love to categorize sin, but uh if Peter can be restored, anybody can. And um what I love about it is that failure doesn't have to be your destiny. Failure can just be an event in your life that God uses to change your destiny.

SPEAKER_00 4:48

Um I think that's a great word. And you know, I think about the world we're living in where you know cancel culture has become such a huge part of church culture and even the way we think, where we say, well, you know, uh nobody's perfect, but if you mess up in in in certain ways, if you mess up in certain categories, hey, that's it for you. Uh, you know, you're w you know, maybe God forgives you, but we're not sure that we're ever going to fully forgive you or or accept you. And so we've sort of bought into that. You know, there there's a graceless cancel culture in the larger culture that has come into the church culture, and along the way we've forgotten about grace and forgiveness. And yet we see Jesus, who had every reason, if he wanted to, to cancel Peter, he could have been canceled, right? You know, you were as close to me as anybody would be and I told you that Satan had asked for you to do to sift you like wheat, I've warned you ahead of time, you still messed up. Hey, that's it. But he doesn't. He not only forgives Peter, uh he doesn't hold him at arm's length after he forgives him. He welcomes him and restores him into ministry. And I I think that that's a that's a message that that people need to hear for for themselves to know that they can be forgiven, but then also a message that we need to live out in extending forgiveness and restoration to others. And so I I just I think about that. I think uh what what you said about that, Stephen, I think really resonates with me. Now you you mentioned to me before we started uh recording today, Stephen, that you've done an extensive series about grace in the face of failure, and all of it focused on Peter. Talk to us a little bit about what you did there.

SPEAKER_03 6:42

Sure, yeah. It was kind of birthed out of uh the the the culture that we live in right now and uh the fact that uh um you know just looking around, it seemed as though to me, and this is this is my own personal opinion, that uh in the church today uh that many more folks celebrate people's failure than they do grieve over their failure. And um, and so we started digging in. And the way I started this, uh, Dr. Romage is I I kind of gave a a uh uh personal resume for Peter. And I said, hey, I bet by the way, I need to let you know of a guy that I'm bringing in. He's gonna be a guest speaker and kind of go through his personal resume. And uh, you know, uh the folks sitting there saying, I can't wait for him to get off the stage because I'm about to give him an earful. And uh, and then I said, Oh, by the way, you know, it's it's it's Simon Peter, and he won't be here speaking, but we're gonna be talking about him for nine weeks. Um, and it was also birthed out of this idea of if you study the life of Peter, Peter did much more for Jesus after his fall and restoration than he ever did before his fall and restoration. And the the question was posed, uh, and and I realize God is unlimited. So I pose this question, understanding God can do whatever God wants to do. But would God have done what he did through the life of Peter if there had never been any fall uh in Peter's life? Uh, we can't answer that question, but uh we know what God did as a result of that fall in repentance and restoration. Uh so we uh we kind of walk through everything. It's like we talked about before uh we came on uh the air that um uh this is not the only time that Peter had failure in his life. He gives us little glimpses all throughout his life, and this is just kind of the culmination, and I would say the kind of that final bit of God stripping away the pride and the arrogance and kind of talking about what Scott was talking about earlier. Hey, everybody else will deny you, but not me. Um, and God stripping all that away, saying, okay, now that you're the Peter of humility, let's go to the day of Pentecost.

SPEAKER_00 9:01

Let's do some pretty powerful things in your life. That's a great word, very insightful. And you're right. So many things that God did through Peter on the other side of his failure. I I remember several years ago, Erwin Lutzer wrote a book called Failure, the Back Door to Success. And I I just thought that was, you know, really insightful. That so when when we bring our failures to the Lord and allow him to redeem those failures, there are great things that God can do on the other side of it. Scott, you were sharing that uh you you dealt with this in the course of a message that dealt one message that dealt with a lot of Peter's life, which is another way and actually a very helpful way, I think. You know, when you're doing character studies, sometimes when you're doing a preaching on a Bible character, taking one message where you show a big arc of the character's life or ministry can really be helpful. So, how did you preach this message? Let me go back. So, how did you preach on this event in the course of a message on sort of the whole character arc of Peter?

SPEAKER_01 10:02

Yeah, I enjoyed uh preparing for that message is a little bit different than what uh I typically do because normally we go through books of the Bible here in our church, and so I've preached on Peter as he shows up in the Gospel of Matthew and uh in the Gospel of John. Uh, but for that message, you know, looking at just the whole kind of life arc of Peter and uh focused on four or five of the big moments uh in his life, and of course looked at uh this this text of his uh denial uh there, the night of Jesus' uh arrest. And uh, you know, but as we were just talking about, as Stephen was just saying, you know, so remember that's not the end of his story. Uh and of course, I think about uh that breakfast by the sea that uh John's gospel tells us about, where uh Jesus takes a little walk with Peter and uh restores him, you know, threefold. He asked him three times the question, Do you love me? And and I think most folks believe that's uh in a direct parallel to the threefold denial that that happens here uh the night of Jesus' arrest. And uh and so as he you know commissions him to feed his sheep, and then uh as Stephen was also talking about, you know, you fast forward just a few weeks later to the day of Pentecost, and uh the Peter is the one that God chooses uh after the gift of the Holy Spirit to stand and preach the message of grace and uh to see 3,000 people saved and and baptized in in one day. And just what a powerful uh reminder uh that uh God is not finished with us, that God is able to take us as broken as we are, as sinful as we are, and uh he's able to uh uh to bring restoration to us, and he's able to use us for uh for his glory. And I do think when you're when you're talking about the life of Peter, uh there there are so many folks uh sitting out in our churches who feel like, you know, because of some mistake they made in their past, uh, you know, 10, 20, 30 years ago, uh, that they've kind of been put on a shelf and uh they're just kind of waiting for heaven, uh, but God can't use them to do anything for the Lord. I think Peter's a great reminder that that's not the case, that God wants to uh us, you know, to use our days uh for his glory and that he's uh he's a restoring God.

SPEAKER_00 12:13

Well, and that that leads me to something that I wanted to talk for us to talk about just as pastors dealing with people and thinking about the real needs of the people who are in front of us. I remember the first church I ever served as a pastor, there was a lady in the church who um who would regularly uh need to meet with me, and uh she was a leader not only in our church, she was a leader in the community, very well respected, but she was struggling constantly with a past failure in her life. And she would just go over uh you know the guilt that she felt and the you know the questions that she had, and and as a young pastor, I I had a hard time really knowing you know what to do other than pray for her, which was the best thing that I could do for her, but as far as giving her counsel, I had a hard time. And I remember um I remember calling the former pastor of the church and just to say, Hey, this person's coming to me and she's got this issue. He said, Hey, I'll tell you something. He said, I wrote a verbatim of one of her meetings with me right after she left. He said, Let me read it to you. And he had and she he read it and she said to him, and it had been years before, this exactly the same things that she said to me. I just thought, you know, that that conversation, that script that she was sharing with me was just repeating in her mind all the time. And I think so many of our people, as you said, Scott, are dealing with failure from the past that they can't get past. They can't that that they just keep bringing it into the future with them. So I would ask for both of you, and and I'll Stephen, I'd love to hear what you'd say about it first. As a seasoned pastor where you're really dealing with the needs of your people, how does how does failure and and the past and the need for forgiveness, how does that affect the people that that are in front of us every time we stand up to preach?

SPEAKER_03 14:19

I'd say it affects them every time we do stand up to preach. And it's it's a unanimous audience uh because we all uh are in need of grace. Uh it's amazing that um, like you were talking earlier about you know cancel culture and all this, that uh, you know, you can extend grace to certain places and to certain people, but uh boy, it's it's really frowned upon to extend grace across everything. And the difficulty that I have with that is if grace is not available to all who will come, then um, number one, I got to quit preaching grace. And uh then I've got to uh, well, I'm I'm in a pickle myself because I'm in great need of grace uh on a daily basis. But um the fact that uh that God is willing to take us at our point of total desperation. And really, you look in the life of Peter, I mean, everything had to be stripped away from Peter. Now, is it a result of his own sin? Without a doubt. Uh, but yet God took that, God worked through it. It got him to a place of repentance. And I think that's a key part of the whole restoration process is repentance. Uh, I say this all the time. You you give me somebody that says, Boy, I'm repentant. Uh, I'll walk with them all day, even if it means uh I'm getting, you know, shots from the, from the, from the cheap seats, uh, and how God works and moves through a repentant heart to bring about restoration. And um, in the days of Peter, we mentioned earlier, uh, to accomplish things that are greater than even before this great failure within his life. I I love the fact that over in Luke 22 in this story, in verse 32, you know, when Jesus is saying Satan has asked to sift you. And um, I think the actual wording is Satan has demanded, and we know Satan can demand nothing of God, only that which God will allow him to do. But God allowed him to sift uh Satan, but or uh Peter, but the words that Jesus uses there is when you have returned to me. Right. He doesn't say if, he says when. He says when. And just that great, great hope that he had of you know, Jesus can restore, Jesus can forgive, Jesus can take the broken, and he can bring about the miraculous. Um, and I think it makes your heart a little bit more sympathetic uh and empathetic to those who've had great failure.

SPEAKER_00 17:03

Yeah, I and that's a great word that that Jesus extended grace to Peter before he failed, so that even in the midst of his failure, he already knew what the Lord had had promised him. He knew that. And then that enabled him to repent and uh and to receive full forgiveness and restoration. Scott, when you're when you're pastoring people, when you think about the people who are in front of you, how does failure and the need for forgiveness, or maybe the need to forgive, how does that affect the the way they respond and their own walk with God? What do you see?

SPEAKER_01 17:38

Yeah, I think Peter's story helps highlight for us uh you know the difference between conviction and condemnation. And I think a lot of our folks wrestle, you know, with that. You you referenced um in your great message on this, uh, you know, Luke's parallel account uh where you know Jesus locks eyes with Peter from across the courtyard uh right after his uh third denial. And that's always a moment when you read that just such a powerful moment. And uh, you know, as Peter sees Jesus, and you know, there's a knowingness in Jesus' look across that courtyard. Uh, but I also think there's there's love, you know, in the eyes of Jesus as he looks across that courtyard. Um, you know, we haven't physically seen the eyes of Jesus looking at us after we've sinned today, uh, but every believer has felt that, uh, that conviction of the Holy Spirit uh and and yet the love of God in the midst of that. And uh and there's a difference between that, uh the love of God that leads us to repentance. And you see that in Peter, his response to his sin as he went out and he wept bitterly uh and he truly repented over that sin. Uh but once we've dealt with that, once we've repented, we've responded to the conviction of the Holy Spirit, and we've confessed our sin and returned to the Lord, uh, you know, the Lord uh wants us to move forward and keep our eyes on him. I think there's many believers who uh after they've already dealt with the sin. Uh they allow, you know, Satan's voice to come in with a voice of condemnation, uh, continuing to beat them up for sin that they committed years and years ago that the Lord has already dealt with. It's not between them and God, uh, it's just in their own mind and their own heart, and they're allowing that condemnation of the enemy uh, you know, to come in. And so uh, you know, I think I think it's important uh as we pastor folks to help them understand the distinction between that, to remember Paul's great of a verse to us in Romans 8:1, that there is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus.

SPEAKER_00 19:40

I think that's a great word, and to distinguish between condemnation and conviction, the convicting work of the Holy Spirit, and then the condemnation that Satan tries to throw at us. Someone shared with me something a long time ago that was really helpful to me that when God convicts, he will be very specific about what he's convicting us of. And man, the Lord Jesus did that for Peter. He told him specifically, you're gonna do this, uh, you're gonna do this three times, and you're gonna do it three times before the rooster crows. That's about as specific as you could be about telling him, here's what here's what you're going to do. And so Peter well it wasn't just a general feeling of guilt uh that Peter felt. He was convicted specifically about what the Lord had told him he would do that he that he then did. That that's the convicting work of the Holy Spirit. The the Holy Spirit will convict us specifically. The enemy Satan will will will condemn us, and he usually does it in general terms. It's a general feeling of unworthiness. I've messed up, I'm not good enough, I failed. I I'm you know, and and it and and he doesn't he doesn't put a specific on it because if there's a specific, then we can turn and repent from that specific. Uh whereas you can't repent from just a general feeling of well, something's not right. God will show you the the specific so that you can get that right and bring it to him and receive his grace and forgiveness. Well that that's um all of this discussion I think is really helpful in in in terms of our preaching and thinking about the the hearts of our listeners, where they are spiritually, what they're struggling with, and how God's word brings a redemptive word to this. And as I as I mentioned uh at the beginning of our time, this this account of Peter is found in the three synoptics. It's also found in John's gospel, and so this is a message that God wanted his people to hear loud and clear over and over again that that Peter failed, yes, but that Jesus restored and continued to work in his life. Guys, I'd like to turn the corner just a little bit and and talk about just some of the of the technicalities of preaching a text like this. The first thing I like to talk about. Is when you're preaching a familiar text, which this is a familiar text, right? This is a Sunday school Bible story text we've heard from the time we were kids. When you're preaching from a familiar text, what are some of the challenges that that you run into or what are some of the things you try to make sure you address in preaching from a familiar text? And Scott, I'll start with you on that.

SPEAKER_01 22:19

Yeah, I think the temptation, right, for our for our listeners is if if it's a familiar text, they feel like, oh, you know, I've I've heard that before, you know, I I know that story. Uh, but but I think what many of us do, our tendency is to read a story, feel like we know the story, but try to keep the story at arm's distance from ourselves. And so I I think when when reading a familiar text and preaching on one like this, uh to help folks to see themselves uh in the story. And uh I think that's true of you know all the characters in the uh story of the trial uh of Jesus. And you know you think about, of course, the disciples who fled there in the garden, you think about Peter's denial, you think about Pontius Pilate, you think about Barabbas, think about the thief on the cross, all of these characters that that show up uh in the story of Jesus' trial and his uh crucifixion, his resurrection, and just the way the story is written as it's inspired by the Lord uh helps us to see ourselves uh in each of those stories, and then just to bring the gospel to bear, to remind people of the gospel. You know, that's what we need to hear. Uh whether whether a person is lost or saved, we need to hear the gospel again. Right. And uh, and so uh, you know, in your message, you brought that out so beautifully that while Peter, while Peter is literally denying the Lord, the Lord is in the process of dying for Peter for that very sin. Uh, he's hours away from being crucified for Peter's sin and for ours. And uh, and so as we find ourselves relating to Peter, realizing that really whenever we sin, uh in that moment, it's a denial of the Lord. In that moment, it's us saying, uh, you know, I know I say Jesus is Lord, but right now I'm gonna be my own Lord. I'm gonna do what I want. And once we see ourselves in that, we realize we really have done the same thing as Peter, uh, and we've done it, you know, throughout our life. But then to see the love of Christ and uh the fact that he was dying for Peter even as he was doing that, and he has died for us, and just points us to where our hope uh is found, and it helps us to appreciate the beauty of the gospel that much more, even to see it there in such a familiar story.

SPEAKER_00 24:26

Hey, Scott, thank you. And Stephen, I want you to address the same thing, preaching from a familiar text, but here's here's something that that I sort of struggled with as I was preparing and preaching this message. It is a familiar text. It's a familiar text to me, but then the other question is for my listeners, how familiar is this text, right? It do how how much do I need to make sure that I'm not assuming that they know the story? So as a pastor, what do you find in terms of things that we would consider maybe familiar text to us, but that how familiar are they to our people as we preach them?

SPEAKER_03 25:02

We have people that, even though I grew up in church and at an early age, we're hearing these Bible stories. Uh, we have folks that every Sunday, it's the first time they've ever walked into a church building. And for a lot of them, it was, I mean, it's a pretty big deal because they they really expected the roof to fall in when they walked in. Um, and the fact that they've even walked in there and to start hearing about a God that forgives uh is completely opposite of the viewpoint that they have of God. They think God's waiting for them to step out of line so he can zap them. And I say all the time, hey, if that were the God, if that were really God, you would have already been zapped, right? Um the but to hear these gospel stories, uh, in which I mean, I I would agree with what Scott said. I mean, let the gospel be the forefront. The uh a couple of months ago, I was in Kenya and I was leading a pastor's uh conference with about 400 pastors that had come from all around Africa. And the main uh the main principle that I taught them is preach the cross. Let's just keep preaching the cross and let the gospel be the forefront of all we do. I I do think uh a struggle that a lot of times is had by familiar passages is man, let me find something new here. Let me uh let let me let me grasp a little uh insight that maybe nobody has come up with before. And uh I'm probably gonna attribute this to the wrong person. It was either uh Dr. Jerry Vines or it might have been Dr. Rogers. Or when I was a young, young preacher, I heard him make the statement. If it's new, it's probably not true. And if it's true, it's probably not new, right? Uh so just let the Bible speak for itself. And uh, I will say, in my life, 55-year-old pastor, been doing this for 30 plus years, seasons of life, uh, the principles they uh of scripture, they kind of hit me a little different. Uh as a as a 55-year-old man, a little different than as a 25-year-old man. Uh, you know, my wife three years ago, uh, being diagnosed with cancer and walking through all that. I mean, things, things, things hit a little differently in that season of life. The principle's still the same. Uh, but being reminded of those basic biblical truths, even in the midst of this. And um, I think that's the key. Uh, let the Bible speak for itself. I uh like you, Scott, I'm an expository guy. Uh, to me, why anyone would do it any other way? I don't know. To me, to be topical is so difficult, but I used to do that in the early days. I tease and say, Dr. Rummage, I'd spend all week praying. All right, Lord, what do you want me to preach? All right, Lord, what do you want me to preach? And then Saturday night, I'm like, no, seriously, Lord, I've got to know what am I going to preach? And uh, and so to me, the expository uh is uh is much easier. Uh, but it it it it causes me to rely upon the scripture and let the scripture speak for itself. Um, but uh we never know. And we never know if it's not years later. I know all of us guys have preached a sermon and we're like, yeah, boy, I blew that one, right? And then years later, you receive an email from someone that you have no idea who they are. And they're like, hey, I just stumbled across this on your website, and you're thinking, I told the tech team to take that one down. That was so bad. And at that season in their life, God using the principles and the truth of his word to speak to them in ways that are just mind-blowing to us. That's the neat thing about how God uses us as preachers of the gospel.

SPEAKER_00 28:54

Well, and God is using both of you men to preach the gospel so faithfully, and in both of your churches, I know you're regularly presenting the gospel from the pulpit, you're looking for opportunities to share Jesus in other forums, and then you're seeing people follow. You're seeing people follow Jesus as Savior and then follow Jesus in believers' baptism. And so I just thank God for that, the way God is working in both of your churches and making disciples and growing disciples as you faithfully preach his word. We've been talking to Scott Wilson, who's the lead pastor at First Baptist Church of Melbourne, Florida, Stephen Kyle, the senior pastor at Highland Park Baptist Church in Panama City, Florida. Thank you guys for being part of this conversation today. This has been rich, and it's really been encouraging to me, I think, uh, to think about a text of Scripture that speaks to the heart of who we are and brings us to the gospel and how we can dive into that. A familiar passage and yet a passage that has great application for us even as we continue to move along and grow in our relationship to Jesus Christ. So I hope you've enjoyed this deeper dive into Mark chapter 14. If you haven't already, please subscribe to this podcast so that you're automatically getting the new weekly episodes in your podcast platform. This is right beside you in the pulpit. I'm Stephen Rummage. And until next time, keep preaching Christ, keep following God's lead, and know that we're walking this road together right beside you. God bless you.

SPEAKER_02 30:24

Thank you for listening to today's episode of Right Beside You in the Pulpit with Dr. Stephen Rummage. This podcast is made possible through your faithful cooperative program giving. For more resources, ministries, and upcoming events in Florida Baptist life, visit flbaptist.org.