For the Public | "Public Universities & Community Colleges" feat. Davion White, Assistant General Counsel, Lone Star College System

In this next episode of For the Public, we sit down with Davion White, Assistant General Counsel for the Lone Star College System, one of the largest and fastest‑growing community college systems in Texas. Davion shares his path into higher education law, the unique challenges and rewards of serving a 90,000‑student institution, and how public service attorneys help shape access to education across our state. His inspiring story highlights the impact young lawyers can make when they choose careers dedicated to strengthening their communities!

You can listen to this episode at the link below or any platform you can access podcasts: https://tyla.org/resource/for-the-public/

#tyla #texasyounglawyers #forthepublic #legalpodcast #publicservice #government #legalpodcast #highereducation #highered #lonestarcollege #lsc #communitycollege #publicuniversity

Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:08

Welcome to For the Public, Texas Lawyers of Public Service, a TYLA podcast series highlighting the work of public service and government parents across Texas. Inspired by President Allison Martinez's commitment to elevating these potential voices, each episode features lawyers with careers for the impact and importance of serving the public. Hello, everyone, and welcome to For the Public. I'm Amber Holmes, one of your hosts for today. And with me is my lovely co-host. Today is going to be Anidia Akpan. Miss Rebecca Lopez couldn't be with us today.

SPEAKER_02 0:44

Hi, everyone. My name is Anedia Akpan, and we're so excited. Today we're going to be joined by our very special guest, Davion White, who's the Assistant General Counsel at Lone Star College System, where he provides legal guidance on institutional operations, compliance, and governance matters. He also serves as a faculty member teaching first-year college success courses focused on student engagement and persistence.

SPEAKER_04 1:12

Davion is currently pursuing a PhD in educational leadership with a higher education concentration with research interests that include enrollment trends, equity policy impacts, leadership development, and the evolving role of higher education legal administrators. He is committed to strengthening institutional effectiveness through strategic leadership and cross-functional collaboration. His work integrates legal practice, academic scholarship, and higher education administration. So let's welcome Mr. Davion White to the pod. Welcome.

SPEAKER_00 1:46

Thank you for the nice welcome. I really appreciate it.

SPEAKER_02 1:49

We're glad to have you here. Thanks so much for being here with us. So to start, we were wondering, could you just tell us first a little bit about what you do as an AGC with the Lone Star College system and what sort of initially drew you to this particular area of the law?

SPEAKER_00 2:37

All right. Well, what I do as an AGC at Lone Star College is, as you stated, I deal with a lot of compliance and governance issues. But the issues I deal with, they range. About 60% of our work is transactional work. And then the other parts we call that um, well, we'll just call that our general side. And pretty much I work with the general matters. And so I've had an opportunity to do things like real estate, um, immigration, um, tax, um, open meetings, ask questions, any type of uh legislative interpretation. I mean, there the range of things that that we handle in our office, it's it's it's very wide. Um, any type of legal issue that comes to the college, whether it also be employee issues, student discipline issues, um, if the college has been sued, um that will come through our office and will pretty much determine which attorney will work on that. But I've had an opportunity to work on all of those things. Um I will say most of the work that I deal with is governance work, meaning um answering questions about policies that we have in place or answering questions about uh state laws that we have in place and directives that we get from the governor, um, how to implement them, um, whether certain policies and procedures need to need to change or be revised to meet um the standards that have been put in place by certain government entities. Um the list goes on and on. I literally can talk all day about what we do because we literally handle everything in our office.

SPEAKER_04 4:12

That's so interesting. Sorry, Amber, go ahead. I was just gonna say that's very close to what I do working as a city attorney. Like, um really that's it's right on par. That our phone calls and our answers, and we do a lot of of contract negotiation, but outside of that, it is a lot of interpretation, like what is the state passing and like how do we implement that within our city? And so um I really I really empathize with that.

SPEAKER_00 4:41

Like that's and I tell a lot of people like every day is different because it really depends on what issues come to the college, right? And that that literally can look different every single day, depending on um whether we have up legislative updates from the administration or whether there is a student issue, or whether you know there is an employee issue, or whether we have a director from our chancellor or from our board of trustees. So every day can look different from us all. And I will say what drew me to this type of work, um initially my first job out of law school, I worked for the Department of Education where I did borrower defense work, and pretty much at the case literally just um it was just a ruling on it to where the Department of Education could not withhold um discharging the loans for certain students who had been taken advantage of by predatory schools. Um, so I started out there, and then there was a switch in administration. And so, of course, laws changed um governing borough defense work. So I'm came back to Texas and there I actually started working in the law school. So I had an opportunity to serve um at the law school I graduated from as um as the assistant director of bar readiness. And essentially what I did in that role is I worked with students who were in jeopardy of curving out of school. And then we also worked with students that were um getting ready to take the bar exam. And so I did a little bit of that and I received a call one day saying, hey, we think you have what it takes to do this. And I'm like, man, I've been trying to get out of education, but it seems like it keeps following me. Um and so pretty much um once the opportunity was made uh made known to me, I researched, I looked it up, I was like, okay, well, I've done this, I've done this, I've done this. And while it may have been um in another sector, because this is a second career path for me, um, before this, I uh had an opportunity to serve just as an educator in elementary schools. And so this was a second, and so most of the stuff that we deal with at our um in higher ed, some of the laws are the same or how they're you know interpreted is the same. And so it's just like I was familiar with a lot of the laws that govern how we run um higher ed and how we interpret, you know, laws there. Um, and so I was just like, let me give it a shot. Went in, met the team, and I've been in love with it ever since. I don't see myself doing anything else.

SPEAKER_02 7:02

That's fantastic. I to go back to something that both both you and Amber had mentioned that um I thought was really interesting is is based off of all the things you were describing. I mean, you really have to be a generalist because you're touching on bits and pieces of everything and uh working in um uh for Lone Star College or a system similar to Lone Star College, um, or even the city, like like Amber was mentioning. I mean, these are are entities operating like companies. There's you know, several departments, several stakeholders uh that y'all as attorneys, um, public service attorneys have to have a connection with. Um, and I just find that really interesting because I I've uh people may not realize that that you're touching on every part of how these entities um operate. And there's a follow-up question I had really quick. When you were mentioning governance, like what from like the city, when I think of governance, I think of like the city council and the mayor. But then for a college systems, I'm imagining that's like a board of regents.

SPEAKER_00 8:08

We have a but a board, yes, we have a board of trustees at Longside College, but it's similar, you know, there's gonna always be a board that governs any public institution here um in the state of Texas. And so um we get directors from those, those are our elected officials, um, but we do receive directives from them as to um what they want to see happen at the institution level, and they then tell that to the chancellor, the chancellor then gives directives to our office, and then we do what we can on our side to um assist with that. And I will say, um, just to piggyback off of something you said earlier about um all the moving parts, I will say it is it is run like a business. I would say that's one of the biggest adjustments that I had to make coming from um working with the Department of Education and working with Lone Star College. I had to now think like, hey, I'm helping someone make a business decision. And I know as lawyers, we like to, you know, take our time researching, writing, doing multiple drafts, but really in a situation like being in our office, you don't have that kind of time because you have people that are trying to make these business decisions. And so sometimes it can be, hey, I need this within an hour. And it's just like you're working off of limited information, um, and all you have are the policies, procedures, and and the laws, and you have to come, you know, help them to make the best decision. And I will say, just like any other business, while we may give advice to our clients, they don't always take that advice. And so we also weigh what type of implication is that gonna mean for the college um if they decide to do something different. And so that's why I tell people it's different every single day. We have all types of problems. But I think that was the biggest adjustment I had to make was thinking like, hey, you don't have the kind of time, you don't have time to type out three drafts and reread. It's like you need to get to it, they need an answer now.

SPEAKER_04 9:57

That's so true. And I think that's something that I I definitely had to adjust to as well is that I'm here to give legal advice, but they don't have to take it. Um, and so if they don't take it, I also have to be ready to defend their choice, which was not mine, right? Like I said, don't do this, and I take the risks, and then the it plays out to where that we shouldn't have done that. And so now I have to, it is our job to represent our clients, and these legal entities are our clients, and so it's like, well, I guess I have to do my best.

SPEAKER_00 10:33

That's one thing we do really well in our office. I mean, like, that's the one thing I will say. Um, our general counsel, Nancy Molina, she makes sure that we look at every issue from every aspect, and so we're used to, you know, bouncing ideas off each other. Okay, but what if what if this happens? What if this happens? Well, what if this happened? And I mean, by the time we finish, we're so well prepared that sometimes we go into meetings and it's like, oh, we did all of this, we were prepared, but they didn't ask any of these questions. And, you know, so um I I think that's one of the biggest adjustments I did have to make for sure.

SPEAKER_04 11:05

And if I can, Debian, kind of go back just real quick. You you mentioned that this is a second career for you being an attorney before you were a teacher.

SPEAKER_00 11:14

I was.

SPEAKER_04 11:15

What kind of pushed you into the direction of law?

SPEAKER_00 11:19

So at that time there was a political shift. Um, and I wanted to make sure that I was in a position to where I could maneuver no matter what happened, right? And so as I um looked through certain professions, it was just like, okay, well, if I do get into the legal field, I can work for myself or everyone needs a lawyer. So it's just like that is a career path that I felt like is going to always be here. No matter even if AI is here, it's just like you have to have a certain way of thinking to be an attorney. And so um I sat down and I discussed it with my family, and I I decided that day I was like, I'm going to go to law school. Um, and I I'll never forget, I was sitting at my computer during lunchtime and I I applied for the LSAT when it found a prep course, and literally within five months, I was taking the LSAT and I was accepted in February. I mean, it happened so fast, so I really didn't have time to change my mind. But I wanted to just make sure that I was in a position to where I could navigate any type of political shift that may happen.

SPEAKER_04 12:24

Right. And do you since you've become a lawyer from initially starting as a teacher, um, do you feel like that was especially since you've found a place within education and public service from where you were at before, do you feel like that you were drawn to it? Or is it just, you know, these doors just keep opening until you just keep walking through?

SPEAKER_00 12:51

This is gonna sound cliche, but I believe whatever is for you, it won't miss you, right? And so none of the things that I've done to date that I ever imagine doing. Like I never imagined being in-house. I I did not think that I would be working for an institution because in my mind I was getting away from education. But it seems like every door that is open to me seems to be an education, even with, you know, the Department of Ed and then coming back and working and teaching at the law school. And I really enjoyed that, was really good at that, helped a lot of students, you know, stay in school. But it seems like every door that's open for me has been an education. So I just think that's my purpose. And so I've accepted that now, and I'm just I'm like, I'm just going with it. It's it's not one of those things that I'm fighting anymore.

SPEAKER_04 13:36

Yeah. And do you feel like with some of the I mean, we don't have to get into the politics of it, but just the implementation of it. Do you feel like it's become more difficult in the past couple of years, specifically like the last two years, with um the changes in the government and how that's passed on to you and what you have to implement?

SPEAKER_00 13:57

I will say in my personal capacity as an attorney, I do believe um it's hard navigating how to make revisions and adjustments to policies and procedures, but I do think being in this position and having the opportunity to do so, it has stretched me professionally. And um I enjoy it now, trying to, you know, how do we do this? How do we do this? Um, I will say it has happened a lot more frequently in the last few years than it has before. Um I'm someone like I work on Title IX at our school when we update those policies, and I'm not sure if you're familiar with what's happened with Title IX over the years, but it's like we revise Title IX like three times just for them to come back and say, Okay, well, we're not doing that anymore. And so it's things like that, or receiving um, you know, receiving a proclamation from the governor and saying, okay, he wants us to do this. What are the legal implications? What mechanisms do we have in place to enforce this? Like I think when you already have work and then you wake up and all of this has happened overnight and it's like, okay, now this is the fire that we have to put out. I think that's what's difficult. Juggling and making sure that you're giving all of the matters that you have to address the right amount of attention, um, so that you're handling things ethically. Um, but I think just trying to juggle all of those things. Like I said earlier, as attorneys, we want everything to be perfect. And so I like to look under every rock and and and try to research every single thing. Um, but unfortunately, in the last two years, those things just happen like and so what we've done in our office is we we literally have a weekly meeting. Okay, these are the policies in place. Is anyone aware of any policies that need to be changed? And as we get updates individually in our office, we put them in our team chat, we discuss them. Um, and we just try to stay abreast on those things so that it's not something that um catches us off guard, it's something that we've already prepared for. Um, an example of that is um how certain um students are F1 students are handled. Um, when he said, hey, these students are they're not gonna be able to attend school anymore, they're gonna have to do X, Y, and Z. So then we say, okay, well, how many students does that affect, right? Um, if these students are on financial aid, how do we recoup that money? Because there is still there's still an obligation to make sure that that money is there or that we get that money back. Okay, how does this affect our overall budget at the school if these students are no longer able to enroll? Um, it's just so many things that people don't think about. We hear like, okay, this is the legislation, this is what we're saying that you have to do, this is the law, but they don't think about all of those decisions or how it affects the entire system. And on the legal side of things, we have to um we have to to think of all of those things because the people that are in roles that um they they're coming to us for advice, and you don't want to be an attorney that don't know what's going on or don't know your job. And so it's really just one of those things of just trying just to stay on top of it because it does happen more often than not. Um, and I will say that's the that's that's the difficult part about it is like, okay, maybe I planned on working on these matters today, but now that this court uh opinion has just dropped, now I have to go and do X, Y, and Z. And so that's happening more frequently than not.

SPEAKER_02 17:28

Yeah. Well, and as a follow-up um to that, I mean, with all attorneys across the board, like are to a point you made, Davion, like it's it's knowledge is power. That's like our sword in the profession. And so we always have to be like up to date with what's going on. But something you mentioned is there's so much intersectionality with what's happening in education, even like more nuanced within like the higher education space or and so just you know, for for students and and new attorneys who are interested in this our area of work, like what are some of the tools you use? I know you have these really great like check-ins and one on one-on-ones with your GC Nancy, who's who's lovely, um, and and Britney also GC, who's also lovely. But like, how do you sort of keep up uh with the changes legislatively? Like what sort of resources do you use? And um, I guess what sort of advice would you give to students who want to pursue that sort of work as far as absorbing the law and the knowledge of that particular area, this particular area of law?

SPEAKER_00 18:34

I think it depends on the issue. What I will say is we do have a legislative tracker, and so we have someone that's checking um legislative updates every single day, but um all also um we have NACUA, which is our national association of for college and university attorneys. And so pretty much when there are updates and things like that, they have them to go through the organization, and the organization will send out various emails. We also like um we also are all um subscribed to different websites like higher ed chronicle. It's just so much information out there. So I will say it really just depends on your preference and how you like to take on information. I would say for me personally, the legislative tracker and making sure that I check the governor's website every day, making sure that I check higher ed chronicle, making sure that I check NACUA, and then last but not least, making sure that I check the THEBC, which is our governing board for all of um higher education institutions.

SPEAKER_02 19:31

And uh well, and you know, speaking of uh knowledge and growing knowledge, we wanted to ask, and and they and thank you for for that info on the resources. How has your background like in education and and as an attorney currently, how did that sort of shape or inspire your pursuit of your doctorate in educational leadership, kind of flipping to the sort of grit positive trajectory of continuing to grow in this space?

SPEAKER_00 20:02

So, like I said earlier, I stopped running right from the meditation space. And um, I've had an opportunity to see a re-org of a board, I've had an opportunity to see a chancellor selection. And so, with those things in mind, teaching um at that level, and then um by teaching, going into the spaces and seeing students, I want to be the best that I can be so that as I'm making these decisions, as I'm interpreting these laws, um, that I have a full scope of how the decisions I make or the opinions that I give, how they will affect all these things. And so by going back to get my PhD, I felt like it would get give me an opportunity to learn things that I would not have learned unless I started at the very bottom. I will say, like a lot of people are at the campus level and typically they work their way up. You know, you go campus level, then you become an executive director, then you become a vice chancellor, then you move up into administration. Well, my path is a little different because I came in as an attorney. And so, of course, I would be at the campus level to work my way up to certain things, um, but I still want that knowledge so that no matter what types of issues come to our school, or if I'm tapped to help out in administration, I can do those things. I just I've always been that type of person. My education wouldn't be one of the things that would keep me from um being able to navigate a certain space. And so once I actually sat down and I was like, you know, I'm gonna do this for the like I don't see myself leaving um this space or this type of law, well, how can how can I be better at this besides doing what it is that I'm doing? And that's when I made the decision, like, okay, let's go ahead and get that PhD. Um, because then if one day I decide to become a chancellor and run an institution, because our current chancellor was my boss at first, so he was the general counsel. Um yeah, and so um seeing what he went through um in the chancellor search, I'm just Like, you know, I want to make sure that I'm in the best position possible, no matter again, what comes to me in this space. And so pursuing my PhD, um, I will say it has helped me so much. Like, so much. Even in the legal field, like the things that I've learned in my PhD program, I've been able to utilize immediately as it relates to like work, workplace conflict, as it works through navigating difficult conversations, um, how you know departments are interconnected. I believe that initially when I made decisions, I came just from a compliance standpoint, like, hey, here are the rules. Did you do this? Did you do this? Did you do this? But now I'm of the mindset, okay, how does this affect every stakeholder? What type of issues are gonna come from this person? Okay, well, what will this department have to do if we move this way? And I believe um I did not have that mindset initially um before starting my PhD program. And so just off of that alone, I would say it has helped me to become one, a better lawyer and then two, a better leader, so that I can help out when various issues arise at our institution.

SPEAKER_02 23:14

That's fantastic. That this is the PSA for like, see, you don't have to stop at law school. You can just go and I and this and to me, this is so cool to hear, especially with you saying that the current chancellor was the general counsel before. So I mean, that's really amazing. Like the the opportunities that the higher ed space provides um for attorneys specifically, and that nexus between the two, that's just so so interesting to me. And um uh with that, I I know earlier you you uh spoke about uh you know what's for you is for you. I know that's something that being passed you by. And and it won't pass you by, true, truly. Amen. And you know, that's something that that we attest to as well. Uh but even through that journey and getting to this place where you are as an in-house attorney and and a PhD candidate, have there been any sort of kind of like on the um in pr in on the professional path and and your pathway to success is to be an AGC? And even currently uh in being an AGC now, what sort of interesting, I don't want to say challenges, but but things that you have um I guess learned from without you having to, you know, go into anything I know that might be too confidential, but anything particular that's been a good like sort of learning launch pad.

SPEAKER_00 24:37

I will say my biggest, one of the biggest challenges or hurdles that I um had to overcome was the advice that I took from other attorneys. Um and I know that may sound really bad, but I and I, whoever is listening, hear me and hear me well. People will give you advice based off of the experiences that they themselves have had, right? Um, but just because their path went a certain way, that does not mean that your path has to go that that that direction. Um I became an AGC at In-house early on in my career, like within three, three to four years, right? And typically that is unheard of, right? And so I had a lot of people that scared me, you sure you want to do that? You you you don't maybe you you don't want to go over there and drown and and end have to end up you know doing X, Y. And these were people that I considered mentors at the time, right? They're no longer mentors now, but these are people that I considered mentors at the time um that would give me that advice and try to keep me in a certain space. And so what I will say is watch the advice that you take because your journey is your journey, and what's for you is for you. Um, had I listened to those people, I would have never applied for this role. And then secondly, I would have not known that I could be as successful as I've been. You know, like of course, there are things that I had to adjust and learn, but I will say that I like being in this world, it has been a success for me. Like, and it has it's transformed how I personally see the law. Like, I'm excited to do the work that I do every day, even on bad days. I know that what I'm doing is not only um helping the institution, but it's also helping the community that surrounds it. You know, um, I consider community college to be economic development like drivers and push pushers in the in the communities that they service. And so I know that the work that I do, it it helps more than just the people that I get to see, even so much so going into the certain campuses and seeing, oh, I worked on the contract for that. I didn't know that that's how that was utilized, or oh, this is what that is, you know. Um, yes, I I enjoy being able to see those things, but I think the biggest hurdle was watching the advice that I received from other attorneys or mentors because people are giving advice based on their experiences. And am I saying that the advice is not wise? I'm not saying that because maybe it is wise advice for someone, but you have to know when to go for it. I will just my own story. I know other people that I've encouraged to do things that are, you know, not you know, non-traditional, meaning like, hey, can I go and work at the federal level, you know, and oh, you can't do that. You need to have this meeting. I'm like, just try it. All they can do is tell you know, and she's been doing it ever since, you know. And so just watch the advice you take. And again, what is for you won't pass you by. Um, my second biggest hurdle is um don't be afraid to ask for help. I think a lot of times we get in these roles and we think that we have to know everything. Um, but it's called the practice of law for a reason. We're all practicing until we get it right or or we know what's going on. And so I will say um when you're navigating a new space or you're navigating a new subject matter, don't hesitate to ask for help. It doesn't make you weak, um, but it actually makes you stronger and it shows that you have the ability to wave the white flag when needed. Um and and that you care. I think that that is a strength to have because most people don't ask for help. Um, and I would say those are those are the two things that I would say that I had to overcome. Um, and then well, I said two things, but one more. I think a lot of times, um, because there's so much that you can do in the legal space, when you initially graduate, it's kind of hard to determine what you want to do. You've had up in your mind, like, hey, I want to do this. Well, let me try this. And so don't beat yourself up. I, you know, me personally, I say don't beat yourself up. Um, okay, you didn't go to law school to do this, but hey, this may be the avenue that takes you to where you're supposed to go. Um, so just be kind to yourself. That was what I had to tell them. Like, be kind to yourself as you're finding the job for you. And like I said, had I not gone through the things that I've gone through, I would not have the role that I have and I wouldn't be in a good space. Um, I know a lot of attorneys that are unhappy with the work that they do. And me too, that is not my problem. I don't like I wake up, I smile every day because of the work that I do. Even like I said, even on bad days, I'm able to smile and say, okay, that's behind us. We've we've done that. Okay, what's next? Um, but the reason I'm able to do that and navigate those pages is one, because I I filtered it through the wisdom and uh and the advice that I received. Two, I learned to be kind, kind, kind to myself. And then um three, just just go with, just go with it. What's for you is for you. It won't pass you by.

SPEAKER_04 29:35

Like you've also created growth for yourself with going for this PhD because I think that a lot of attorneys, we kind of box ourselves in. Like we're a lawyer, we're just this is we do the law. But a lot of these um these in-house gigs where you're you're working with an an entity like this, there are opportunities for growth, and they might not be as a lawyer, but all of the information that you've gained, especially being a lawyer for that entity, you get to know all the departments, all of the issues that are facing um whatever the the school is facing, you get to know what everybody's dealing with. And so you kind of have a macro view of what's going on in the school and then also in the community. And so to to put yourself, give yourself more opportunities with more education. There are jobs above lawyer within that organization, right? And so your job as a lawyer has given you all this information and all of this knowledge on how everything operates. And so you're so uniquely situated to move up within there that we can't be as a lawyer, but your knowledge and your experiences from being a lawyer for the institution has put you in a place where you are perfect for these other roles as well.

SPEAKER_00 31:01

And just to piggyback off that, I think that's what a lot of people they don't realize. Like there is so much to do out here, even outside of working the firm life. Um, and like you said, while the roles that I may apply for in the future may not be legal roles, everything that I've learned today, even my legal background, it is it is shaping who I am as a leader and who I will become. And so I don't take it for granted. And I wish more people realize, like, hey, you don't have to stay and be miserable. There are other things out there for you to do. Um, you may not be in a courtroom every, you know, every day, but there are jobs out there and you can be happy and you can like your job.

SPEAKER_04 31:43

I think there's this expectation of being a trial attorney. Like an attorney, you have to be a trial attorney. And try being in a courtroom and being in trial isn't for everybody. There are different kinds of lawyers, and so like that doesn't bring everyone joy or forgiveness. And so, like for me, I I feel like maybe I have some kinship with you. I want to help the community, right? Like, I want to know that the work that I'm doing has an effect on the community as as a at large, and how can I do that? How can I benefit, use my my experience and my knowledge to benefit the community? And I get so much um happiness from the work that I do now versus when I was in a courtroom, I I wasn't as happy. And so I I think that that's really good advice that like you don't have to have a courtroom. And that's okay.

SPEAKER_02 32:39

That's right. And it's okay. It's okay. Like you don't have to be miser, like be in misery like this. We're we're doing this work that's like meant to be transformative, and so it should it should bring you joy. And I think, you know, especially uh the work that um our public uh service and public public sector attorneys do, such as such as the two of you. I mean for everything uh we touch like everything that happens every day, like the uh the the utility, our river authority, our water districts, our every every thing, all of those entities, there's an attorney behind that that's making sure that the wheels are running. Uh and I think people forget how far reaching government legal work uh is. It's what keeps the wires up, it keeps the water flowing. I mean, it keeps the schools open. Like the point you made about like especially especially community college systems being like these uh economic like incubators that really close like social and economic and education gaps for communities, a lot of time communities that are like uh existing and navigating uh society on the fringe. I mean, it's such powerful work. And um, I mean, it's I'm just really just so inspired by by both of you because I I I do think that this is exactly why this podcast is so important because people don't realize how far reaching this this is and what it is that y'all y'all do. So very I I'm just like inspired.

SPEAKER_00 34:24

I didn't even I didn't even know before I applied for the job. Like even once I got in and I realized like all this, I'm like, wow, I I never knew that that was a thing for uh, you know, a school. Oh wow, someone ran into a sign. Oh, oh wow, the police department, like we touch so much stuff that I could comfortably leave this institution and and probably go to any organization and be able to work in-house. That's how much stuff we touch, um, and that's how wide of a range of issues in our legal department that we deal with. And I'm sure the same for Amber, like the sky is the limit. You can keep going and going and going.

SPEAKER_04 35:02

Yeah, it's incredible because it's definitely something I feel like they don't talk to you about in law school at all. And it is it is just wild. Like uh the the way schools, especially higher education, operates, it is it it's a governmental entity. Yes. So yeah, you have your own police department, you have your tax department, like it is a little governmental entity, and so it is just wild the amount of law you get familiar with.

SPEAKER_00 35:34

Yep. Couldn't have said it any better. People have no idea because I didn't have an idea either. And so, but now when I look at other organizations, those are the first things that come to my mind. Like, how is this organization structured? What type of issues they do, my mind automatically goes to that, but I probably wouldn't be in that headspace had I not had an opportunity to work in the role that I'm in.

SPEAKER_04 35:54

Yes. I just have one more question I wanted to ask you about. Um, where you are, I where I'm practicing, it's um a pretty economically disadvantaged community. And so with our uh community college here, they've done a lot of work with the school districts, um, the high school school districts in order to work with students so that they can a lot of them are entering into programs where they're graduating with an associate's degree. Um, does your community work with the the school districts as well to try to help students?

SPEAKER_00 36:32

Yes, we work with school districts, we work with other community organizations. Um what I will say, most of the work that we do, we have we're one of the largest community colleges in the nation. Um, we have eight campuses and then we have several, several centers. They're all over. And so um we serve a large population of students. Um, and a lot of our students are a high school student, you know, a lot of our students are high school students. They are coming, they're doing dual credit. Um, some of them actually um we have a high school on a couple of our campuses, and so they're they're able to go that path. Um, but we are an open enrollment type of school, and so um a way that we're able to do that is by partnering with these ISDs and these various organizations. Um, even so much so um I participate in graduation, I stand on the stage and shake the hands, but so much so that we have a lot of students who come and they get their associates before they've even graduated from high school. You know, it's like, oh, high school graduation is until next week. Well, our graduation is this week. So they're walking with their associate degrees before they even walk across the stage uh to become high school graduates. And so it is uh it's very rewarding to see that too, because they don't realize it in that moment how much further ahead that has pushed them, how much money it has saved them by having those things. Because that's knowledge that I wish I would have known as I matriculated through my various programs of how much work and how much help and assistance that the community college can give you to help to bridge those certain social economic gaps and um wealth gaps and things of that nature. So I applaud those students that do take advantage of those programs to get those associate degrees before graduating high school or as they're graduating high school.

SPEAKER_02 38:21

Yeah. The the transformative community impact. This is what we're talking about. That's wonderful. I I just wanted to say real quick one of my favorite libraries is the one at the Lungster called Cypress in the Cypher campus in Cypress, Texas. And I love love that beautiful campus. It's such a beautiful campus. I love that like so, yes, so so support your public library, support higher ed and our community colleges. Um, we need like we need to have like a part to, we need to figure out something and have like your whole legal department come and talk with us. I mean, this has been so wonderful, and I know there's so much more to cover. Um, but we truly, on behalf of TYLA, we wanted to just thank you for sharing your inspiring story with us. And um, just please continue to do what you do. And we can't wait to call you Dr. White very, very soon. We have to bring you back on. Wonderful. Thanks so much, David.

SPEAKER_00 39:19

Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate the opportunity uh to share with you guys today. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_01 39:25

Thank you. Thank you for joining us on For the Public, where we shine a light on the attorneys who strengthen our communities every day. We hope these conversations deepen your appreciation for public service and highlight the impact lawyers are making across Texas. Stay tuned as we continue sharing stories that honor their work and inspire the next generation of public minded leaders.