WEBVTT 00:00:18.719 --> 00:00:20.719 This is Romans thirteen. 00:00:21.359 --> 00:00:30.559 Let every person be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. 00:00:30.719 --> 00:00:37.759 Therefore, whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. 00:00:38.000 --> 00:00:41.600 For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. 00:00:41.920 --> 00:00:44.640 Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? 00:00:44.799 --> 00:00:50.159 Then do what is good and you will receive his approval, for he is God's servant for your good. 00:00:50.320 --> 00:00:54.799 But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. 00:00:55.280 --> 00:01:00.240 For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer. 00:01:00.479 --> 00:01:07.359 Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's wrath, but also for the sake of conscience. 00:01:07.680 --> 00:01:14.079 For because of this you also pay taxes, for the authorities are ministers of God, attending to this very thing. 00:01:14.319 --> 00:01:25.359 Pay to all what is owed to them, taxes to whom taxes are owed, revenue to whom revenue is owed, respect to whom respect is owed, honor to whom honor is owed. 00:01:25.840 --> 00:01:32.159 Owe no one anything except to love each other, for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law. 00:01:32.400 --> 00:01:44.319 For the commandments, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not murder, you shall not steal, you shall not covet, and any other commandment are summed up in this word you shall love your neighbor as yourself. 00:01:44.560 --> 00:01:49.120 Love does no wrong to a neighbor, therefore love is the fulfilling of the law. 00:01:49.280 --> 00:01:57.599 Besides this, you know the time that the hour has come for you to wake from sleep, for salvation is nearer to us now than when we first believed. 00:01:57.840 --> 00:02:00.400 The night is far gone, the day is at hand. 00:02:00.560 --> 00:02:05.120 So then let us cast off the works of darkness and put on the armor of light. 00:02:05.280 --> 00:02:19.039 Let us walk properly as in the daytime, not in orgies and drunkenness, not in sexual immorality and sensuality, not in quarreling and jealousy, but put on the Lord Jesus Christ and make no provision for the flesh to gratify its desires. 00:02:19.280 --> 00:02:20.719 And so reads God's word. 00:02:21.439 --> 00:02:28.639 And if you can have Romans 13 uh open in front of you, uh would be good to follow along. 00:02:28.879 --> 00:02:39.120 We uh we're probably only actually going to get through half the chapter uh today, um, which you you may be relieved to know that I'm not uh doing the whole chapter uh in one go. 00:02:39.439 --> 00:02:45.120 Um so um how do you uh how do you all feel uh this week? 00:02:45.280 --> 00:02:52.639 Uh what do you think was the um what was the most uh significant political event uh this week? 00:02:52.879 --> 00:02:58.639 Anything anything big happen uh in the world of global politics? 00:02:58.800 --> 00:03:04.960 Uh in the providence of God, it just so happens that we have landed on uh on Romans 13. 00:03:05.199 --> 00:03:13.439 Yes, I know you what you're all thinking Simon Harris finally announced uh the Irish general election for the 29th of November. 00:03:13.599 --> 00:03:16.400 Uh so you see all the signs uh there. 00:03:16.639 --> 00:03:21.120 Oh, and uh Donald Trump got re-elected uh as well. 00:03:21.199 --> 00:03:23.599 That that happened, that happened too. 00:03:23.759 --> 00:03:27.120 Uh I don't know if anybody was mindful uh of that. 00:03:28.000 --> 00:03:46.240 I suspect actually that if we uh if we polled you or we got you to say uh just one uh one-word description of how you feel about Donald Trump's re-election, but don't worry, we're not going to do that. 00:03:46.400 --> 00:03:50.479 Uh because we would get quite a broad spectrum. 00:03:50.800 --> 00:03:55.759 In fact, there's a uh a friend of mine on on Facebook uh for you younger people. 00:03:55.840 --> 00:04:12.000 Uh Facebook is what millennials uh used to use uh for uh for social media, uh and uh and a and a Gen Xer was on it, still posting, uh, and asked the question uh how is everybody feeling today on Wednesday morning? 00:04:12.159 --> 00:04:30.160 And it was just striking uh how many uh people who are all believers in the Lord Jesus split down the middle, ecstatic, elated, couldn't be happier, gutted, devastated, can't believe it. 00:04:30.399 --> 00:04:40.959 And I suspect that actually it would be similar in a room like this, because we live in massively politically polarized times, to say the least. 00:04:41.600 --> 00:04:45.839 Uh, even between between Christians, emotions can run very high. 00:04:45.920 --> 00:04:57.839 Uh dependent and you'll know that depending on how online you are and how politically engaged uh if we look through your podcast feed, we would know uh who are the more politically online people. 00:04:58.319 --> 00:05:02.399 Um don't uh don't look through my podcast uh feed. 00:05:02.800 --> 00:05:04.879 Um you would, yeah. 00:05:05.120 --> 00:05:10.000 Anyway, um, but if you're not politically engaged at all, that's that's okay. 00:05:10.240 --> 00:05:10.720 Welcome. 00:05:10.959 --> 00:05:16.399 Uh maybe you're not at all bothered what has happened uh on Tuesday. 00:05:16.560 --> 00:05:21.680 There's still this question, however, of how should Christians operate as citizens in the world. 00:05:21.759 --> 00:05:27.120 And that's primarily what what Paul is concerned for in this first half of Romans chapter 13. 00:05:27.839 --> 00:05:32.399 Off the back of 12, it can feel like a slight left turn. 00:05:32.480 --> 00:05:49.680 He's just been talking about uh you know loving one another, loving your enemies, and uh outdoing one another with honor, and then he kind of uh kind of seems to have this crunching gear change into oh, and by the way, uh all authorities uh come from God and you should submit to them. 00:05:49.759 --> 00:05:53.199 It feels uh a little bit strange. 00:05:54.560 --> 00:06:05.759 But actually, in the context of 12, uh chapter 12, that is, it's not because remember uh what the kind of headline is uh in the first verse of chapter 12. 00:06:05.839 --> 00:06:12.240 It says, Don't be conformed to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. 00:06:12.480 --> 00:06:14.639 Don't be conformed by the pattern of this world. 00:06:14.720 --> 00:06:27.279 And so you can imagine uh some New Testament Christian thinking, well, one of the patterns that there is in this world is uh the uh the seeming kind of order of governance. 00:06:27.839 --> 00:06:31.279 Uh and so do we not conform to that then? 00:06:32.000 --> 00:06:42.000 One of the patterns seems to be the uh the reality of uh of authority, of uh the exercise of justice by the state. 00:06:42.160 --> 00:06:52.079 And so when we're not to be conformed to the pattern of this world, does it mean that actually we should uh not listen to any state body? 00:06:52.240 --> 00:06:55.839 Well, what about Caesar in the Roman context? 00:06:56.079 --> 00:07:03.199 Do we reject all government and just say uh Jesus is Lord or Christ is King? 00:07:05.040 --> 00:07:19.360 The other reason is that actually if you say Jesus is Lord now, and especially in the New Testament, the words Jesus is Lord is a political statement. 00:07:19.839 --> 00:07:21.120 Do you appreciate that? 00:07:21.600 --> 00:07:33.839 That's certainly how uh those in authority in Rome heard it, and it's certainly how those in authority in certain uh countries with certain systems of government still hear it. 00:07:34.319 --> 00:07:54.079 That when you say, actually, my ultimate allegiance is to not the state, but to a crucified and risen Messiah, that can be understood as being seditious, that is undermining of the state. 00:07:54.800 --> 00:08:00.000 To say Jesus is Lord is inevitably a political statement. 00:08:01.279 --> 00:08:10.319 And so, what therefore is the place of the state within that confession, within that declaration. 00:08:12.319 --> 00:08:22.399 Another reason why it it it really makes sense for Paul to talk about it here is that he has already talked about in Romans chapter 8 about the the persecution of Christians. 00:08:22.800 --> 00:08:26.879 He talks about how they've uh being killed all the day long. 00:08:27.519 --> 00:08:35.919 And we know from history that the the persecution, even at this early stage in the first century, was already beginning to ramp up in Rome. 00:08:37.679 --> 00:08:41.200 He's just been talking about loving those who oppose us. 00:08:41.840 --> 00:08:51.440 And so it would make sense for him to help us to think about our attitude towards those governing authorities. 00:08:52.559 --> 00:08:56.480 So, how are we to respond to those in government? 00:08:56.639 --> 00:09:00.159 How are we to respond to the state and those above us? 00:09:00.799 --> 00:09:03.200 Well, Paul's answer is quite stark. 00:09:03.759 --> 00:09:05.120 Look at verse one. 00:09:06.159 --> 00:09:10.960 Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities. 00:09:11.279 --> 00:09:19.840 Verse five, therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's wrath, but also for the sake of conscience. 00:09:20.320 --> 00:09:24.720 Verse 7, pay to all what is owed to them. 00:09:25.360 --> 00:09:28.399 Taxes to whom, taxes are owed, revenue to him, revenue is owed. 00:09:29.600 --> 00:09:32.480 These verses seem absolute. 00:09:33.759 --> 00:09:35.519 They are pretty absolute. 00:09:36.320 --> 00:09:44.000 Paul is calling Christians to the voluntary embrace of the authorities that are over them. 00:09:44.720 --> 00:09:59.840 And remember he has he is he knows that he is dealing with Caesar in Rome, who is not a Christian, who is persecuting Christians, and who is calling the Christians to submit to ruling authorities. 00:10:00.080 --> 00:10:02.480 Now, I know what you're all thinking. 00:10:03.200 --> 00:10:18.240 You're all immediately uh saying to yourself, yes, but or yeah, but what about surely not when I know we will get there. 00:10:18.639 --> 00:10:52.080 There are plenty of hints both in this passage and in the rest of the Bible about things like civil disobedience, but you need to hear what Paul is saying here, and particularly if your mind, if you hear be subject to ruling authorities, and the first thing that comes into your mind is yeah, but and you're looking to find the loophole, the exception, the the hard case when you shouldn't, then actually that says something about our hearts, doesn't it? 00:10:52.320 --> 00:10:59.279 That actually we're not immediately disposed to wanting to submit to authorities. 00:10:59.360 --> 00:11:04.799 And I get like look, anybody who knows, I here's confession time, right? 00:11:04.960 --> 00:11:06.080 I find this passage hard. 00:11:06.159 --> 00:11:11.440 One of the reasons why I find this passage hard is that I hate seemingly arbitrary laws. 00:11:11.679 --> 00:11:22.159 And I hate little mini despots uh that you that you encounter in uh in grocery stores or in airports or things like that, people who just love their authority. 00:11:22.399 --> 00:11:24.320 That just makes me bristle. 00:11:24.639 --> 00:11:35.679 And I, you know, the more ungodly parts of me kind of get aroused uh by by those impositions of seemingly irrational rules. 00:11:35.840 --> 00:11:37.759 I'm like, oh, but why? 00:11:38.559 --> 00:11:41.840 But that actually says something about my heart, doesn't it? 00:11:42.720 --> 00:12:07.440 That actually when I'm looking to, well, how can I actually break this rule uh to either you know stick it to the to the little mini tyrant, or uh, or because I just don't think that it's a very good rule to begin with, then that I'm already missing the overarching idea of be subject to those who are in authority. 00:12:08.240 --> 00:12:13.519 That actually that is a good thing because those authorities have been placed there by God. 00:12:13.679 --> 00:12:15.840 We'll get to that a little bit more. 00:12:16.639 --> 00:12:21.279 And so it's helpful for you to ask yourself are you like me? 00:12:21.919 --> 00:12:23.279 Do you struggle? 00:12:23.519 --> 00:12:25.360 Or do you immediately try and find the loophole? 00:12:25.440 --> 00:12:36.080 Do you immediately try and find the workaround, the exceptional case, the the way to uh to get around the law or authority? 00:12:36.159 --> 00:12:42.320 And perhaps it betrays a lack of willingness on our part because Paul's actually helping us to be disciples of Jesus. 00:12:43.759 --> 00:12:44.720 Excuse me. 00:12:45.919 --> 00:12:47.840 Why does Paul want us to submit? 00:12:48.159 --> 00:12:51.679 Well, he gives us, broadly speaking, three reasons here. 00:12:53.039 --> 00:12:58.000 The first is that all authority comes ultimately from God. 00:12:58.879 --> 00:12:59.440 See that? 00:13:00.879 --> 00:13:02.879 Oh, I don't have my coffee down here with me. 00:13:03.200 --> 00:13:04.559 Would you grant me water, Peter? 00:13:04.879 --> 00:13:05.279 Sorry. 00:13:08.320 --> 00:13:13.360 I was preaching away all day yesterday, and I think that's kind of knackered my voice a little bit. 00:13:13.919 --> 00:13:14.799 I apologize. 00:13:15.120 --> 00:13:18.159 First reason all authority ultimately comes from God. 00:13:18.399 --> 00:13:24.720 Let every person, this is verse one, be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except from God. 00:13:25.279 --> 00:13:28.720 And those that exist have been instituted by God. 00:13:29.840 --> 00:13:45.039 Paul's saying that we submit to authorities because the system of government and authority and that structure is God's chosen means of bringing order to human society. 00:13:46.159 --> 00:14:02.080 That actually behind the state apparatus stands a God who has instituted and delegated, thank you, brother, his authority to those state operators. 00:14:02.480 --> 00:14:04.000 Yes, they're flawed. 00:14:04.240 --> 00:14:14.080 Yes, they're fallen, yes, there is sin in there, but principally governments are God's design. 00:14:15.600 --> 00:14:21.679 So, how do you feel about the election in America? 00:14:21.919 --> 00:14:42.240 If you feel like you lost, or in a few weeks' time, you feel like who you supported, who you voted for, loses on the 29th of November, that does not give us permission to reject their authority, to demean or to rebel against those who have been placed by God over us. 00:14:46.080 --> 00:14:59.440 But the knowledge that God stands behind the governments of this world is not just something that is a burden to us or a something that's binding to us. 00:14:59.919 --> 00:15:03.120 It's actually something that's wonderfully freeing for us. 00:15:03.840 --> 00:15:11.919 Because what it reminds us is that political realities are not absolute realities. 00:15:12.720 --> 00:15:25.200 It's one of the reasons why one of the reasons perhaps why it is so sad to see the utter devastation that people feel, regardless of what you think. 00:15:25.840 --> 00:15:44.639 Just with human compassion, when people are utterly destroyed when their particular candidate doesn't come in, in part portrays a an idea that the political reality has become absolute, that they've attached their hope to it. 00:15:44.960 --> 00:15:52.799 One of the things that Paul is saying here is that all governmental authority is derived authority. 00:15:53.519 --> 00:15:57.360 It's not, it doesn't come mustered up from within them. 00:15:57.759 --> 00:15:59.840 They get it from another. 00:16:00.000 --> 00:16:04.000 It's reflected actually in the in the words of the Irish Constitution. 00:16:04.240 --> 00:16:20.559 The Irish Constitution uh begins with the words, in the name of the Most Holy Trinity, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, from whom all governments uh derive their authority, and to whom all governments and peoples uh will will be conferred, will give an account in the end. 00:16:20.720 --> 00:16:25.519 It starts with that recognition that the authority of the state is a derived authority. 00:16:25.679 --> 00:16:28.000 And that's actually such good news for us. 00:16:28.240 --> 00:16:52.240 Because it means that our hope, even if we feel like we lost on Tuesday night, or if we feel like we will lose at the end of November, is that actually there is a God who stands behind the rulers of this world, and that he is good, and that he is just, and that all of the rulers of this world, though they are part of his good order, will ultimately be a footnote to his glory. 00:16:56.080 --> 00:17:11.119 And so if our candidate loses, we can be gutted, sure, you can be sad, disappointed, anxious even, about what the what the next years will will bring and be further motivated to bring political change. 00:17:12.160 --> 00:17:18.319 But it is helpful for us all to look beyond those things and see that there is a God who stands behind them. 00:17:18.799 --> 00:17:31.759 The second reason why Paul encourages us to be subject to rulers and authorities is because those in government, those in authority, are placed there for our good. 00:17:32.640 --> 00:17:34.079 They're placed there for our good. 00:17:34.240 --> 00:17:40.319 Verse 4, for he is God's servant, this is the person in authority, for he is God's servant for your goods. 00:17:40.799 --> 00:17:44.880 But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. 00:17:45.839 --> 00:17:48.079 For he's a servant of God and an avenger. 00:17:48.319 --> 00:17:53.680 Civil authorities bear the sword, to use the language of Romans 13. 00:17:54.000 --> 00:18:08.000 Bearing the sword is that they they restrain evil, the awareness of the fact that if you create anarchy, if you break the law, you will be punished. 00:18:08.160 --> 00:18:10.720 That has a restraining effect. 00:18:11.119 --> 00:18:21.920 And also it is good and wise from our good and wise God that it is the government that bears the sword, and not that everybody bears the sword, because that would be kind of anarchy, wouldn't it? 00:18:22.079 --> 00:18:24.559 If we were all meeting out our own justice. 00:18:24.799 --> 00:18:30.960 And so it's good and wise that God has set apart and instituted particular governments and authorities. 00:18:31.039 --> 00:18:35.599 And yes, Anne said, look, they there's injustices and they administrate it wrong and it's fallen and sinful. 00:18:35.759 --> 00:18:37.920 Yes, yes, I understand. 00:18:38.799 --> 00:18:48.480 But the reality that they bear the sword is a good one for the restraining of evil and for the meeting out of justice of those who have been harmed. 00:18:48.799 --> 00:19:04.160 You know one of the one of the things that we, if we had more time, we should have looked at it more last week, was this idea of one of the reasons why Christians don't take uh revenge upon themselves when they've been hurt is because we recognize that there is a coming judgment. 00:19:04.319 --> 00:19:14.160 There is a day when all those who have been harmed uh will be vindicated, and all those who have unrepentantly gone around harming people will be punished. 00:19:14.319 --> 00:19:18.559 That there is justice kept for that last day. 00:19:18.720 --> 00:19:32.000 But Paul is also saying, well, actually, some of that breaks in now, and that we can experience justice in space, time, reality, in the world, and that itself is also a good thing. 00:19:38.799 --> 00:19:49.920 They reward good and punish the bad, and that brings order to society, even if that civil order is fallen or imperfect. 00:19:51.680 --> 00:19:56.160 Authority is better than anarchy. 00:19:57.599 --> 00:20:12.400 And the third reason why Paul encourages us as Christians to be subject to governing authorities is because disobedience, rebelling against those governing authorities, is rebelling against God. 00:20:12.880 --> 00:20:15.279 I'm gonna get to the civil disobedience and stop thinking it. 00:20:15.359 --> 00:20:16.559 I'm getting there, right? 00:20:18.720 --> 00:20:21.359 But disobedience is ultimately against God. 00:20:22.559 --> 00:20:29.359 The state exists to punish wrongdoing on God's behalf, and that is a good thing. 00:20:30.240 --> 00:20:44.720 You and the guard pulls me over, or somebody else, and says, you have been doing 60 and a 50 going through Chesterfield Avenue, you know, just making up a completely fictitious scenario. 00:20:45.440 --> 00:20:49.359 And that I know that I was doing it willfully, again, just pretend. 00:20:50.960 --> 00:21:00.160 That I was not only rebelling against the rules of the road, the rules set out in Phoenix Park, but ultimately against God and his good authority. 00:21:00.880 --> 00:21:03.599 The authority that he has divested to the state. 00:21:04.559 --> 00:21:23.279 It's therefore right that I get points on my license and a fine, in theory, in order that I should avoid and be encouraged to avoid further sanction and be brought back into subjection to the will of God that I obey the rules of the road. 00:21:26.240 --> 00:21:29.119 Verse 5, Paul uh says these words. 00:21:29.200 --> 00:21:35.680 He says, Therefore, one must be in subjection not only to avoid God's wrath, but also for the sake of conscience. 00:21:36.240 --> 00:21:43.680 That one of the reasons why we submit is not just out of fear of punishment, but also for the sake of my own conscience as a believer. 00:21:44.720 --> 00:21:52.640 That is, that if I only obeyed when somebody was watching, that would stunt my growth as a follower of Jesus. 00:21:53.039 --> 00:21:59.680 My conscience would be underdeveloped if I only obeyed laws when law keeps. 00:22:00.480 --> 00:22:01.680 We're watching. 00:22:02.160 --> 00:22:16.640 That actually, one of the reasons why I obey laws, even when the guard isn't standing there with the hairdryer pointed at my car, is for the sake of my own growth as a believer in Jesus. 00:22:17.599 --> 00:22:24.079 A lot of confessing and repenting has happened in the study this week, in theory. 00:22:27.839 --> 00:22:31.119 So those are three reasons why we should be in subjection to authorities. 00:22:31.359 --> 00:22:37.519 Authority ultimately comes from God, it's for our good, and because disobedience is ultimately against him. 00:22:38.000 --> 00:22:41.359 And so, having those three reasons in mind, what does Paul say? 00:22:41.519 --> 00:22:46.240 Well, Paul calls us, therefore, to obedience. 00:22:46.799 --> 00:22:48.000 Verses 6 and 7. 00:22:48.079 --> 00:22:52.880 He says, therefore, you know, pay taxes to whom taxes are owed. 00:22:53.279 --> 00:22:55.200 Pay revenue to whom revenue is owed. 00:22:55.359 --> 00:22:56.880 Respect to whom respect is owed. 00:22:57.119 --> 00:22:59.519 Honor to whom honor is owed. 00:23:00.079 --> 00:23:13.119 The payment of taxes, the giving of due honor and respect, the submission to planning laws or finance laws or traffic laws are all part of our growth as followers of the Lord Jesus. 00:23:14.400 --> 00:23:22.799 Because in doing so, we we live more and more as living sacrifices in the world, being transformed by the renewing of our mind. 00:23:22.960 --> 00:23:25.920 It is a good and right thing for us. 00:23:30.799 --> 00:23:33.119 What about civil disobedience? 00:23:38.160 --> 00:23:39.599 What about civil disobedience? 00:23:39.680 --> 00:23:48.319 Well, look, there are there are examples in the Bible and in history of people not submitting to the government and to authority. 00:23:48.480 --> 00:23:51.519 So you can think of somebody in the Christian world in the 20th century. 00:23:51.680 --> 00:24:19.359 First person that comes to mind is maybe somebody like Dietrich Bonhoeffer, who was a uh a German pastor during the Third Reich and spoke out against uh the Nazi regime and often referred to Romans 13, saying that actually the uh the the government, the the fascist government of Hitler and his cronies, uh uh that there behind that there is a God to whom ultimate allegiance is is owed. 00:24:19.599 --> 00:24:24.880 And so it was right actually to obey God rather than the governing authority. 00:24:25.599 --> 00:24:27.759 That's a very kind of excuse, like, yes. 00:24:27.920 --> 00:24:29.519 Uh obey the Nazis? 00:24:29.839 --> 00:24:30.079 No. 00:24:30.319 --> 00:24:32.480 Okay, we all get that, that that's not a good idea. 00:24:32.640 --> 00:24:38.559 What about what about something like um what about something like uh 1950s Alabama? 00:24:38.640 --> 00:24:40.720 Should Rosa Parks have sat on the bus? 00:24:42.559 --> 00:24:44.480 Well, yes, I think she probably should have. 00:24:44.799 --> 00:24:45.920 Well, why? 00:24:46.960 --> 00:25:07.039 It's because what had been created there is a culture in which the teaching of God about human beings, their equality as image bearers, their equality under the law, was being undermined and disregarded. 00:25:07.519 --> 00:25:15.519 And so there was a kind of obligation in order to uh to show that and bring that about, that was a good and right thing. 00:25:15.839 --> 00:25:29.680 Or you think biblically of somebody like like Daniel, how Daniel and his his friends, uh Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, or if you're a Veggie Tales vintage, Shak, Rak, and Beni. 00:25:32.240 --> 00:25:45.599 And how they disobeyed Nebuchadnezzar, and they refused to bow down to the great golden chocolate bunny rabbit, or idol, sorry, I get veggie tales in the Bible mixed up often. 00:25:46.000 --> 00:25:55.680 But they refused to indulge in idol worship, knowing that that would bring about consequences from the state for them. 00:25:56.480 --> 00:26:02.640 And on first reading of this passage, Paul seems like an absolutist. 00:26:03.279 --> 00:26:14.960 He seems perhaps a little bit naive, but I actually think that there's more going on, and that Paul is more savvy here in this passage than perhaps we give him credit for. 00:26:15.519 --> 00:26:24.559 You see, one of the things about the letter to the Romans is that the letter to Romans is going to people who work in Caesar's court. 00:26:24.960 --> 00:26:32.720 It is going to Chloe's household, you people who work for Caesar that are in authority. 00:26:33.759 --> 00:26:47.119 And so when he says things like, For the state exists to reward good behavior and to punish bad, he knows he's not just talking to the random citizen like you and me. 00:26:47.279 --> 00:26:51.920 He's talking to those in authority, telling them how they ought to act. 00:26:52.079 --> 00:26:53.039 Do you hear how savvy? 00:26:53.440 --> 00:26:56.240 And actually, maybe he's actually quite a good politician. 00:26:56.400 --> 00:27:06.559 He's simultaneously calling the Christians to be good citizens, not be seditious, not be rebellious, not cause an uprising. 00:27:06.720 --> 00:27:25.440 But he's also saying to the ruling authorities, and you guys actually, if I'm calling these guys to submit, you need to protect, give care, do good to them, and punish those who are causing them harm. 00:27:25.680 --> 00:27:26.240 Do you see? 00:27:26.720 --> 00:27:33.359 Now actually there's something quite textured to what Paul is saying. 00:27:34.400 --> 00:27:41.200 He is also pointing out to those authorities, he's saying, look, obey Caesar, but Caesar's authority has its limits. 00:27:42.720 --> 00:27:50.559 He calls Christians to submission and says that the state ought to reward good and punish evil. 00:27:54.160 --> 00:27:59.119 The Bible elsewhere does speak uh of ultimately giving our allegiance. 00:27:59.200 --> 00:28:00.480 We talked about Daniel. 00:28:00.559 --> 00:28:11.039 Uh, another uh incident is in uh in Acts chapter 4, where uh Peter and uh and James are with the ruling authorities in Jerusalem. 00:28:11.279 --> 00:28:16.799 And uh let me just read to you what they say to those ruling authorities in Acts chapter 4. 00:28:16.880 --> 00:28:32.240 It's verse 19, just one verse, where they where they say, But Peter and John said to them, Whether it is right in the sight of God to listen to you rather than God, you must judge their ultimate allegiances to God. 00:28:33.440 --> 00:28:36.480 But I mean, people often use the example of Daniel. 00:28:36.640 --> 00:28:40.160 You read the book of read the first couple of chapters of Daniel. 00:28:40.319 --> 00:28:48.960 Um, you know, in uh in youth groups and student groups, the Daniel series tends to be called something like Dare to be a Daniel. 00:28:49.759 --> 00:28:51.680 Daniel said no. 00:28:52.480 --> 00:28:56.880 So you should be a good believer in Jesus and you should say no to. 00:28:57.279 --> 00:29:03.039 I'll tell you what, guys, Daniel said yes to a lot of stuff before he said no. 00:29:03.440 --> 00:29:06.720 Daniel said yes to a change of location. 00:29:07.359 --> 00:29:10.240 He was taken from his country and moved to another place. 00:29:10.400 --> 00:29:12.400 He said yes to a change of name. 00:29:12.720 --> 00:29:17.359 He said yes uh to uh to a change of uh of title. 00:29:17.440 --> 00:29:22.000 He said yes to a pagan Babylonian education. 00:29:24.319 --> 00:29:27.920 So there's wisdom there and kind of thinking, well, where are the red lines? 00:29:28.000 --> 00:29:33.519 And the red lines for Daniel and his friends were actually is this participating in the worship of false gods? 00:29:33.839 --> 00:29:35.839 Is this indulging an idol? 00:29:36.880 --> 00:29:39.839 Daniel said yes to a whole bunch of stuff before he said no. 00:29:40.160 --> 00:29:45.440 But there does come a time where you say no and you take the consequences of it. 00:29:45.920 --> 00:29:48.319 But it's not a first port of call. 00:29:48.799 --> 00:30:08.799 And what's more, I think I think with the guys in Acts and with Daniel, and here in this passage as well, a lot of this is is it speaks to our attitude and how we hold ourselves in those moments of civil disobedience. 00:30:09.279 --> 00:30:30.559 There is perhaps a kind of an unhealthy, unsavory uh attitude within some quarters of the church, that it can be quite strident in their flounting of civil authorities and just being like, well, you know, Christ is king, so we're just gonna do whatever we want because our ultimate allegiance to him. 00:30:30.960 --> 00:30:32.720 Your ultimate allegiance is to him. 00:30:33.599 --> 00:30:36.559 But the authorities have been set in place for you for your good. 00:30:36.799 --> 00:30:50.880 And that if you feel in your conscience that it is necessary for you to indulge in civil disobedience, that actually that should be done one with lament. 00:30:51.839 --> 00:31:00.559 It's a regrettable thing in light of Romans chapter 13, that we must rebel against the overreaching of a state. 00:31:00.880 --> 00:31:07.039 It is not something to be celebrated or to be indulged in with a strident and cocky attitude. 00:31:07.279 --> 00:31:11.920 It should be done regretfully, with tears. 00:31:13.039 --> 00:31:17.359 Done nonetheless, but you see, it depends on the attitude. 00:31:17.519 --> 00:31:28.079 And and secondly, with a desire to, as soon as possible, come back into subjection underneath the authority. 00:31:28.559 --> 00:31:30.000 Does that make sense? 00:31:30.319 --> 00:31:34.319 That I'm not saying that there isn't times of disobedience. 00:31:34.559 --> 00:31:43.759 And so let me let me say something that I um that those who know me have heard me say that I've never said publicly on this, but I'll I'll give you an illustration, okay? 00:31:44.000 --> 00:31:46.160 And if it upsets people, it upsets people. 00:31:46.319 --> 00:31:47.680 You can come and talk to me afterwards, right? 00:31:47.920 --> 00:31:48.480 Here it is. 00:31:48.640 --> 00:31:50.319 You're like, wow, it's coming. 00:31:53.279 --> 00:32:03.680 In COVID, I would have uh met in contravention to the uh to the COVID rules. 00:32:03.920 --> 00:32:05.279 Eventually, right? 00:32:05.519 --> 00:32:09.839 The start, I wasn't like immediately gone, oh, it's just quite scary at the start, right? 00:32:10.000 --> 00:32:11.200 Things were very uncertain. 00:32:11.359 --> 00:32:24.160 But as things went on and as the lockdowns continued, I was of the disposition, I came to the mind that I would have met in contravention to the laws. 00:32:24.480 --> 00:32:32.000 And what happened was that we didn't own our own building, and the people who did own our building were like, well, you're not insured if you meet in contravention to the laws, so you can't, right? 00:32:32.160 --> 00:32:34.319 So it became kind of a moot point. 00:32:34.480 --> 00:32:39.839 But I was I was getting to the kind of the the cusp of of civil disobedience. 00:32:40.160 --> 00:32:52.480 Now, within that, there was other churches and other pastors and pressure from other churches and pastors to just do it anyway. 00:32:52.559 --> 00:32:54.319 Like I had keys to the building. 00:32:54.640 --> 00:32:57.279 And I, you know, we could have just all gone in. 00:32:57.519 --> 00:33:04.880 And I could have just said to the people who owned the building that we were in at the time, well, you just you know take a run and jump. 00:33:05.039 --> 00:33:07.200 I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna do it anyway. 00:33:07.279 --> 00:33:10.640 And go on, well, you know, Christ is king, that's what he's my ultimate allegiance. 00:33:10.880 --> 00:33:27.039 Or I could have done what other churches did, and I could have called you all together to go and uh go and worship in Phoenix Park in contravention to a whole bunch of OPW um uh public gathering and order um uh statues, right? 00:33:27.440 --> 00:33:35.279 But here's the thing like I wanted to be very careful about how many laws I was breaking at any one time. 00:33:36.400 --> 00:33:42.960 You know, that I actually thought, well, I I do feel like it would be okay to mate. 00:33:43.359 --> 00:33:48.160 We could be sensible about that, and I thought that there was a an overreaching of the state. 00:33:48.319 --> 00:33:51.519 I was minded towards civil disobedience. 00:33:51.839 --> 00:34:03.359 But the other thing was I wasn't going to be so, I didn't want to appear strident and uh and and cocky and just go, well, we're just gonna do it anyway. 00:34:03.519 --> 00:34:11.440 Uh and you know, come along and uh and you know, the the guards can just, you know, they can just stand there and you know arrest me if you want. 00:34:11.599 --> 00:34:14.559 That's not the attitude that I wanted to present. 00:34:14.960 --> 00:34:15.840 Does that make sense? 00:34:16.000 --> 00:34:19.599 That yes, there were that pushed me really far. 00:34:20.400 --> 00:34:22.800 And it pushed me towards civil disobedience. 00:34:23.039 --> 00:34:24.719 It didn't happen for those various reasons. 00:34:24.880 --> 00:34:29.840 I didn't want to put the other the trustees of the building that we're meeting in in a difficult position. 00:34:31.039 --> 00:34:33.760 Because I wanted to preserve my my witness. 00:34:34.159 --> 00:34:39.280 Now you can come to me and say, you made the right, you made the wrong decision. 00:34:39.599 --> 00:34:40.960 You should have just done it anyway. 00:34:41.119 --> 00:34:43.119 Okay, we can have a conversation about that. 00:34:43.360 --> 00:34:47.519 You can sit there and also think, I can't believe that Mark was minded towards civil disobedience. 00:34:47.679 --> 00:34:49.840 I know I'm a bad boy. 00:34:54.480 --> 00:35:01.760 But as I was thinking about this text, those are some of the things that obviously were coming to mind. 00:35:03.280 --> 00:35:09.760 And that if we had disobeyed, I would have hoped that we would have been able to communicate that this is a lamentable thing. 00:35:10.079 --> 00:35:15.519 Not a thing that is part of our ongoing DNA and something that we would want to do. 00:35:15.599 --> 00:35:23.360 Because we're we're, I don't think that citizens uh need to always have the disposition of wanting to be undermining to the state. 00:35:24.800 --> 00:35:41.840 And that our desire is for the for the state to recognize that actually it's its authority is derived from God, as its constitution says, and that we can preserve the good order of meeting together and come in subjection to that. 00:35:45.840 --> 00:35:46.960 We need to finish. 00:35:48.159 --> 00:35:57.360 In all of this, as we think about the the heart attitude that we have in these things, remember Jesus. 00:35:57.679 --> 00:36:01.599 Jesus faced unjust authorities. 00:36:02.400 --> 00:36:08.000 Remember his meeting with Pilate the morning of his crucifixion. 00:36:08.239 --> 00:36:10.400 What did Jesus say to Pilate? 00:36:11.280 --> 00:36:15.519 He said, No authority is given to you that hasn't been given to you from above. 00:36:16.400 --> 00:36:18.800 He's recognizing Pilate's authority. 00:36:19.920 --> 00:36:22.639 He's also recognizing that Pilate's authority is derived. 00:36:23.599 --> 00:36:24.960 But it's not ultimate. 00:36:28.559 --> 00:36:43.039 Equally, he knew the Pilate would be motivated by fear of man, kind of pretty pretty weasley middle management in the Roman Empire, and that he would act unjustly. 00:36:44.320 --> 00:36:46.159 And yet he submitted. 00:36:48.480 --> 00:36:50.000 Yet he submitted. 00:36:51.360 --> 00:36:54.639 In the same way, we pray for good government. 00:36:54.719 --> 00:37:00.960 We long that those in power would use the sword with righteousness and justice. 00:37:03.039 --> 00:37:07.360 But we do not look to any political candidate or any system. 00:37:08.800 --> 00:37:11.599 There's nothing in the Bible about democracy. 00:37:14.000 --> 00:37:40.639 We do not look to a system for our ultimate hope, but to the lamb that was sl who was silent when he was led to the slaughter, and that who three days later found himself vindicated never again to be put into subjection by any earthly authority because he is the one who now rules as Lord of all.