Anxiety Isn’t What You Think It Is (Why You Feel Stuck)

Anxiety isn’t always panic attacks.
Sometimes it looks like overthinking, avoidance, and feeling stuck.

In this episode, we break down what anxiety actually feels like day-to-day, and why it stops so many people from taking action.

If you’ve ever felt overwhelmed, stuck in your head, or unable to move forward… this one will hit.

Let us know in the comments what anxiety feels like for you.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

I've been fe feeling quite sick recently and I think this is anxiety. Uh I've had some big opportunities come up recently, and uh it's a constant feeling of sickness and uh you know my chest feeling tight and I'm getting pretty sick of it to be honest. It's uh it's quite annoying, but at the same time when I have these uh these big opportunities come up, that's obviously where that's what we're doing this for, that's why we're trying to build, you know. But then uh you you start to think, hang on, why am I doing this? Because you get this feeling afterwards, you get that joy uh when these opportunities come, but then it comes with all of this afterwards. I can I can see I can see that's main on you. Yeah, I can definitely see that's main on you. I'm feeling it today. I'm feeling it today. I was driving here this morning and I was thinking, like, what am I doing? What am I doing? Because it's uh I'm very appreciative of these opportunities that have popped up, and uh you get that euphoria for a for a short amount of time where you're on top of the moon and then you you try and make the most of what's going on in that feeling. Um and that happened last week, I think, when I uh got in contact with you, didn't I? And I was like, Luke, feeling great. This has happened. Um I've had this uh this rent-to-rent opportunity come up. I'm working with the landlord at the minute, and I feel so light today as well. And um, I think I said to you that morning as well, I went for a run that morning, uh, went out and did 9k, and I'm I'm not a massive runner, but I'm trying to do it a bit more because I use it as uh as therapy, and I actually enjoyed the entire run for like the first time in my life as well. Normally I'll get like two or three K in and I'm like, oh legs are killing me, I'm feeling feeling a bit now.

SPEAKER_01 1:51

Um Why did you enjoy it though? Why did you what so why did you enjoy it more this time? Is it because you were you were sort of in the moment? What was it about that run that you enjoyed?

SPEAKER_02 2:01

It was because after a couple of big opportunities popped up with the rent to rent and uh a music opportunity that I'm working on at the minute as well for a corporate event. Um I felt like this is working, this is okay, the work, the work is coming together, you know. It's uh so you feel ecstatic, you feel light because suddenly that burden that you have inside your brain where you feel like you're pushing, pushing, pushing, and you're not getting anywhere, it lifts because you've got a result. But then again, that's a dangerous point to be actually because you can you can also then sit back and be comfortable. But in this case, what happened is I suddenly when I went out of the run to answer your question, I felt like I felt like relief, like it was all working, it was it was great. So running, I didn't feel pain, I didn't feel heavy, I didn't feel exhaustion. I just felt like this is great. What changed? The result in that in that case. I actually stopped by the church and prayed that day as well. This is a new thing for me that uh has become apparent as well. So uh having that belief.

SPEAKER_01 3:13

I'll just just point out I haven't pushed my religion on Matt whatsoever. I've just been talking about how how I deal with it, how it helps me, and uh and and and Matt is is now trying to um to explore it himself.

SPEAKER_02 3:28

It's something that I think I've uh I've I've probably believed for a long time but then not been happy to accept. And now um and it's not just you either, it's it's a it's a lot of help from other people as well who who have explained like having that belief, that bigger, wider accountability is exactly what I've probably been missing for a long time, hence why I'd get very frustrated. Um, but on that morning when I went out running, I already felt like because I was getting a result, and suddenly it felt worth it. And uh I I I stopped off at Great Bentley Church and uh prayed briefly as well, and I felt uh I felt a huge rush of emotion and energy come over me, and then I carried on running and it it felt amazing, it felt great. But what happened later in the day is when I started thinking about the logistics of how I'm gonna make these opportunities come to reality, I started to think, hang on, can I do this? Have I got the time to do this? Have I got the finances to do this? How am I gonna make that happen? So then the anxiety creeps back in. Because for me, like reputation is so important, I want to I want to make sure that I'm delivering, um, and I want to make sure that I can deliver for the the customers, for the clients, and then I can also deliver as a family man, as a father as well. And um that's a catch-22 situation, it's like where do you spend your time? Because for me, I'm constantly thinking about how do I provide for my family? Okay, I need to build my business. How do I build my business? Well, I've got to take time out for my family to put into my business to then carry on building. But going back to that day, when you start thinking about these things, the lightness then starts to disappear and it'll the heaviness starts to fill back in. But in that moment, when you feel that result, it's great, it's great.

SPEAKER_01 5:29

And yeah, I think anxiety is one of the most understood, misunderstood things, you know, because from the outside it looks like you're doing nothing. But like, what does what does anxiety look like on a day-to-day basis with you then?

SPEAKER_02 5:42

For me, uh, I have an internal feeling of sickness. It's not sickness, it's a different type of sickness, but it's it's like that you've been punched in the gut constantly because uh it's more of a physical, it's it's a physical thing, yeah. And um I uh I struggle with my breathing as well, your chest gets tight. Um sometimes I wake up in the middle of the night as well, and it and it causes uh sleepless nights. I didn't sleep last night because I was uh thinking about these opportunities as well and how I'm gonna make them happen. And then I knew that I was coming into the day and we were gonna record as well and talk about them, and made it even worse.

SPEAKER_01 6:23

I know it's easy I know it's easy to I know it's easier to sit here and say it, but with regards to like the anxiety side of things and it and how it sort of like makes you feel because obviously it has a a real impact on you and and how your day sort of evolves and what you can get done in a day based on how you feel. Have you have you ever thought about just not letting it rule your life? And and again, I know it's easy to sit here and say that because uh I've suffered with anxiety, you know, quite bad anxiety. I've had to be, you know, gone medication for anxiety in the past, um, and quite recently as well. So I know what it's like to feel like that, but what I have discovered, for me at least anyway, is we is just ex explaining to myself, well, okay, I'm anxious about this, but realistically, what's the worst that's gonna happen? Okay, I don't get this opportunity, I don't follow through with that. Well, how's that affected me in my in my life? You know, forget about the micro, look at the macro. How's it actually gonna affect your life? This one thing on this one day.

SPEAKER_02 7:33

So the opportunities that are coming up are um with the corporate event for the music, for example. It's something that will then give me great experience, great reputation going forward that then I can use to build, and it's the same with me taking on my first rent to rent, for example. That is the establishment point, and I think that's why I feel so anxious. So uh it sounds like you just need it validating for you and not for anyone else. Oh, maybe so, but then I'm paranoid that I'm gonna let other people down in the process, as well as myself. Well, mainly my family in this case, I think. Um, with the rent to rent, for example. Am I putting my family at jeopardy from doing this? Am I gonna have enough time to make it work? Or is the investment not gonna be worth it?

SPEAKER_01 8:21

But it sounds like you haven't explored that. It sounds like you haven't sat down and actually asked yourself those difficult questions and gone, right, this is my time, this is my plan, does it work?

SPEAKER_02 8:30

I do it on a daily basis, which is why I feel constantly like my engine is running at a thousand percent. Okay, so you know, so uh and that and that's that's uh because anxiety to me, like you say, is so misunderstood because it can be portrayed as like laziness, procrastination, like I'm not doing things like you've just said to me, like, well, why aren't you sitting down and thinking about it? Well, I am. I am constantly thinking about it, and that's the problem, the problem, isn't it? Because my brain is just constantly on overdrive thinking, how am I gonna make this work? How is that gonna affect my family? How is it gonna affect me? Because I'm not I'm not gonna sleep, I'm not gonna have time, I'm gonna have to do like you know, like the 14-15-hour days to make it work alongside the other things that I'm trying to achieve as well. And this isn't a me problem, this is a standard business problem for anyone that's trying to push forward and grow. But obviously, when you're in the middle of it, it's horrible, and you feel like you're the only person that it's affecting as well because you're so inside your brain, and I I'm feeling it right now as well. I'm I'm sitting here and I'm feeling like I'm stuck in my head.

SPEAKER_01 9:49

You're the only person who can occupy real estate in your own brain.

SPEAKER_02 9:53

Yeah, that's a great point. So, actually, on on that point, like when I'm sitting here now, what do you see? Because I uh for for all of the people listening, I am this is raw, I'm feeling that anxiety right now, and uh, even though we're talking about it, it's very difficult to release. I mean, we're doing what you say it, what you you say. Have you sat down and thought about it? Well, I'm thinking about it right now, and this is what happens for me. So you want to know what I think Yeah, I'm I'm I'm intrigued to see what your perspective of me right now of your situation.

SPEAKER_01 10:29

Okay, so if you think about right so we're we're in we're in in sort of the Hastings area at the moment, okay. Now, if you think back to the Battle of 1066, yeah, where you had all these soldiers that were, you know, from France, you know, come over the Channel and that and they were coming in to invade England, right? And they were um you had the the British, like um uh King Harold and his army sitting on a hill that night waiting, right? And or was it the French, sorry, um but you're sitting on a hill waiting that night. Now you think about those soldiers, yeah, right? You think about the anxiety of them, that they've got to go to sleep that night, right? Knowing that tomorrow morning they're gonna be going into battle and there's a high chance that they're gonna die, yeah. They are at war, yeah, and their anxiety is around that sort of perspective that they are at war, yeah. What I see when you tell me that is that you are at war, but only with yourself.

SPEAKER_02 11:32

Yeah. That's that's spot on. And it's something that I'm very aware of that I can't control at this point. Um, and it's something that I've I've always struggled to control. And you know what I've mentioned about being angry in the past, so anxiety to me, now that I'm starting to get a grasp of what's uh going on and I'm trying to build more constructively with business, I used to portray anxiety as anger. So I can imagine for your analogy with soldiers that are gonna be putting themselves in the line of death.

SPEAKER_01 12:11

Which you can understand.

SPEAKER_02 12:13

Which yeah, like I mean that must have maybe maybe they were th maybe they were basically pep talk into it, then exploiting that as anger.

SPEAKER_01 12:24

Yeah, but what I was trying to say was put yourself in their position and then you look at your problems.

SPEAKER_02 12:28

Oh yeah, they're nothing.

SPEAKER_01 12:30

Right.

SPEAKER_02 12:30

No, they're nothing, are they? No, you're right. You're right. Uh but then you telling me that then makes me go, well, you've just been stupid, aren't you, Matt? Why why why are you uh concerned about these things that aren't a problem? Do you know what I mean? Yeah. So then so then I get melt wound up more.

SPEAKER_01 12:46

Um My goal isn't to make you feel stupid about it. My goal is to try and sort of like reset your you know, reset your mind around the problems that you're currently experiencing. Because you know, with with anxiety, you've there's there's lots of ways to look at anxiety, and a lot of people with you know with anxiety, especially like you in your situation, they're they're waiting for the right moment, but that moment never comes along. And because that moment's not coming along or it's not coming quick enough for you, that's why you're spiralling and your anxiety is flaring up and you're having all of these physical symptoms because you feel like you're you're not doing enough, you feel like you're letting people down, you feel like you're not good enough for yourself or for anyone else. But if you actually ask the people around you, I guarantee you they won't have that view on you. It's only you, it's your own internal perception of how you think other people perceive you, and that's the hardest thing to get out of your head and to try and reshape in your own mind. But it is also one of the more important things to do, and the way to do that is to talk to people, talk to the people you love, explain to them how you feel, and then it's ask them if they agree. And if they agree, okay, fine, there might be a valid point there, but if they don't agree, which I would assume on most cases they wouldn't, then you know it's only you, and it's just you that's thinking about this. And we've spoken about this before, it's like that perception of other people, fear of judgment, fear of judgment, yeah, and the perception that other people might have on you, but the reality around it is again, you're the only person who occupies real estate in your brain, yeah. No one else has the ability to do that, okay. Now that's not to say that people can't enter into your your mind and create thoughts for you, but you're the one who has to live with your own thoughts every single day. Yeah. So have you ever been in a situation where like you've been in an argument with someone, and you've you know the argument's blown up or whatever, and the door's been slammed and you've gone out, or what you know, whatever it may be.

SPEAKER_02 14:59

Very much so.

SPEAKER_01 15:01

And then and then all you do for the next couple of hours is you fester over that and you replay it over and over and over and over again in your mind, and you go, Oh, I should have said this, and oh, I should have done that. And there's all these woulda-shoulda, you know, situations that you create in your own mind, but that's all very much driven by that that part of your brain as well. It's almost like the the movie that gets replayed, and you're currently doing that constantly in your own mind, but what you're doing is you're playing a movie that hasn't actually come out yet. You're trying to you're trying to play a film that's not even in the cinema yet.

SPEAKER_02 15:39

Well, I so what you've just described was most of my teenage and probably like up to late 20s, right? So my anxiety, which I'm realising is what it was now, I always thought it was maybe competitiveness and uh drive to push forward, but what I'm realising now is that it was probably actually anxiety because I was worried about the judgment and how other people perceived me. It was perceived as anger. It was uh it was the it was the cork analogy we've talked about before. The boiling up by all the little things that would annoy me that I would see in other people that were actually reflections on myself, then I'd snap, but I'd snap and I'd be I'd be angry at that one target person. And uh had we have been sitting here right now talking about this, maybe even only two or three years ago, I'd have been I'd have been boiling. Uh because anxiety is is it's emitted in different ways, isn't it? Uh and and for me it used to be anger. So I could not have a debate like this, for example. I couldn't have a this isn't even a debate. This is uh this is like a therapy session because you guys are getting you guys are getting the rawness right now. Um but it would then be me releasing, targeting all of that anger onto you, for example, right now, and then afterwards I would come away, I would feel so guilty and empty, and what have I done? Yeah, it's just it's why's that happened. It's comma deflection, exactly, and then sometimes I'd apologize and feel guilty because I just thought the whole world around me was then suddenly thinking, that's been a helmet, isn't he? He's he's he's snapped again, he's done this, he's done that, why'd he get angry? Because in my brain, it would always seem like it was a massive deal, it was like the biggest deal in the world, but in reality, no one cares.

SPEAKER_01 17:47

That's what I've said before, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 17:50

And the the irony of that is I'm very aware of it, and I've been very aware of it for a long time, but I could never control it before. Recently, and this has come from me getting more of an understanding of and maybe maybe more of an acceptance, and maybe some more accountability, and putting myself around people who understand, like yourself, and uh reaching out to people via Mind Over Mortar, like we're doing now, this has massively helped me get more of an understanding and control of it, which is why I'm always pushing to try and connect with people as well, but it still happens, but it's now turning into a situation where the anxiety is portrayed in a different way, so I never used to get this sickness feeling, I never used to get this breathless feeling, I just used to get angry. And to me, the conception of anxiety just being like a oh well, you're just worrying a bit too much, there's so many ways to perceive it, is what I'm understanding now. Because now that I've I don't feel the anger like I used to, the anxiety is now coming from a place where I'm trying to be more controlled, it's now reflecting in different ways. Although I still get wrapped up in my own brain with all of this information and paranoia and judgment still there, now that I'm aware, okay, look, like you say, maybe I shouldn't be worrying about it so much because it's not as big a deal as you think. It's not winding me up, but it's now like, okay, so I need to deliver. How do I deliver? How do I make this happen without it having not a physical effect but a long-lasting effect on my family with the way that I provide, for example? Can I be there enough? So I don't know if you've got any more to add to what I just said, but if you haven't, I'd love to hear about your recent situation because you've had some big opportunities uh come up recently as well. And I also want to know if that how that's affected you and if that's made you feel anxious too.

SPEAKER_01 20:05

Yeah, first thing I'll say though is that anxiety doesn't ever go away, you just learn how to harness it and you learn how to deal with it, and you only learn how to deal with it by going through those really anxious moments in your life. Now, if you don't give yourself time for reflection, you don't give yourself time to process what's happened, then you're never going to learn, and all too often you'll see it, and I think you're guilty of this, you know, especially in your younger years and that where you have anxiety, yours manifests in with anger, and again, that's something that a lot of people don't really talk about or understand is that anxiety and anger do go together quite well. Um, most people will see an anxious moment in their life, and they'll snap at someone else because they're feeling anxious, but the other person just wants to try and make sure that they're okay, they'll ask a question, and you know, you think, well, that's a stupid question, and then you'll snap at them for it. Um it's it's all about being able to manage that those moments in anxiety and catch yourself at the point where you're at the you know reaction, that's when you that's when it makes sense, like because and that's something that I've worked on you know over the years is it's that catching it at the point of inception when you could react in one way or another way, and it's having that choice and deciding which way to go. So your your problem with anxiety, again, remember that n everyone goes through life of anxiety in some way, shape, or form. Some people go through uh life with much bigger problems with anxiety, and other people just sort of you know get it every now and again. And it's not to say that you're different, it's not to say that you're you're you know, there's something wrong with you or or or what, but it's just how you how you sort of deal with that really. So yeah, I mean for me I I I definitely get anxiety. I've had anxiety, you know, in in the past many times, you know, when it's if it's to do with my my adolescent years, my adolescent years with you know the school and my upbringing and being anxious over like talking to people or being involved in things, you know, as a kid. Um that was that was always a big thing for me and being anxious about it. And I would you know quite often snap at people as well. Um, and I think it's just because I didn't realise or understand how to regulate my emotions as you get older, you start to understand your emotions better, and you start to realise that you know the anger emotion, yeah, right, it's just a bit of a twat.

SPEAKER_02 22:44

You know, that part of me is just a bit of a twat, like it is, uh, but it also does fuel you to uh push forward. That's what used to happen to me. Yeah, only if you harness it though, yeah. Well, this this was the problem. I I think I used to harness it in the wrong ways, which is now where I'm trying to then harness it in a better way. But you are right, it does make you into a twat.

SPEAKER_01 23:08

It does, yeah. You you you there are parts, I mean, I all of my emotions, yeah, right? They're all like, have you ever seen the film Inside Out? Disney film. So the film um the Disney film Inside Out, it's a it's a fantastic representation about emotion. It's a kid's film, right? But I watched it as an adult and I was like, oh my god, it's so true. It honestly is it's a great, it's a great film, but it it it represents different parts of your of your brain. So there's a little kid called Riley, uh, and she goes through life and she has like the anger, she has depression, she has uh anxiety, and they're all they all manifest as characters and and how they interact with her daily life, and you see like the expression in her life, you know, and it's almost like they're behind the wheel of a car and they're driving the car, which is her. Yeah, um, and that's sort of how I see it. I see like you know, my emotions as as different personas, um, but I I'll label those and I'll know which ones I can harness and which ones are gonna hurt me in certain circumstances, um, and it it's not easy to do. Um, you know, you have to do a lot of self-explor exploration, you know, and you know, self-finding to be able to do those things. And again, I'm not a guru, do you know what I mean? I'm not an expert at any of this stuff, but I can just tell you from my experiences. Um, anxiety for me's been you know a pretty a pretty big roller coaster.

SPEAKER_02 24:37

Tell me tell me about the things that you've got going on at the minute because uh it things have escalated a bit for you in the property world, haven't they? So uh because I walked in this house this morning and I got out of the van and and you probably looked at me like, well he's feeling it. I'll be honest, I looked at you and I was like, Well, you're feeling it as well. So uh I'm yeah, I'd like to hear about what you've been doing recently.

SPEAKER_01 25:03

Yeah, so I've got at the moment I've got three JV partners on the go. Um, so each one of them requires uh a l a level of input, you know, a level of time and and attention, and it requires my time to be able to work on these projects with them as well. Um that's you know that alone is is quite a lot to even just to begin with. How do you feel about that inside?

SPEAKER_02 25:29

I will be the responsibility of it, right?

SPEAKER_01 25:32

I'll I'll be completely upfront and straight and honest with you right now. Okay, right, I don't let it get to me. That's amazing. I I genuinely don't want to get to that place, yeah. And I I genuinely don't let it get to me because you know that I've got other things going on as well, it's not just that, you know. I've got um a first property I'm hopefully getting the keys for in Brighton, hopefully.

SPEAKER_00 25:55

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:56

Um that's a good opportunity either later on this week or early next week. So lovely, lovely um property, it's a three-bed, two bath in Kemptown, right on the beach. Um, so that's going to be a decent, a decent property, that one without a doubt. And um, so I've got the JV partners as well. Um, you know, I've raised £100,000 in finance so far. I've got a bespoke investor who I'm working with at the moment who wants me to find him a deal, and he wants me to project manage that deal for him as well. I've slightly repositioned myself uh in in the spaces that we we're in. I see there's a bit of a gap in the market where a lot of people say that they can project manage, but realistically, like what's their experience? Well, it might be that they've done a couple of refurbs themselves and they go, okay, well, I know how it works, I can just you know charge people to do the the project management on their refurbs. That's fine, okay, if that's what if that's what you want, you want to trust someone to do that, but I've actually got uh proper skills, you know. I'm actually trained to be a project manager, and you have qualifications as well, exactly that.

SPEAKER_02 27:08

You know, I've got yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 27:10

So I've got you know uh certifications that that go along with it all as well.

SPEAKER_02 27:14

Um and the reason I'm asking this is because of you in your position being trained, I haven't even finished.

SPEAKER_01 27:22

No, I mean I carry on volunteer, I haven't even got done yet.

SPEAKER_02 27:25

No, fair enough. Uh I want to know how you feel with taking on kind of that responsibility for investors. Does that make you anxious? And if so, like how does that feel for you? Because is it as intense as me where I'm like completely jumping into the unknown, or because you are you have that experience and that qualification, do you still feel the anxiety because you're like no, I will I still want to provide my reputation, or are you like, no, I've got this, so you don't feel it at all?

SPEAKER_01 28:00

Yes and no, but the no is very small, yeah. So I've done loads of projects in the past, you know, I've managed project managed loads of projects where you know from 10 grand up to you know millions of pounds. So I I know what it takes and I know what level of input is required to to manage a project. I mean, refer projects, right? I mean it's all it's all very much bread and butter. Like it honestly it really is. Like if if if you're doing a refer project, it's pretty straightforward, right? For for you know, for for me at least anyway, because I understand it. A lot of people get caught out on you know the the the timelines and the the expenditure that they're you know you the they're spending on those properties, and that's where they lose their profits, you know. Not only that, but it's the health and safety element as well, an aspect of it. People don't understand that. And I'll tell you, that's realistic, I'll be honest with you, that's where the that's where the big anxiety part lies. It's not it's not on the fact that the project is gonna overrun, it's gonna cost extra money, or the the materials are more expensive than we thought that they were going to be. Those aren't things that worry me because you can control those. If you if you project manage properly and you you set the project out correctly, you start it up, you do all your timelines, your budgeting, and everything that goes along with it to begin with, as the core concept of a project, then you eliminate a lot of that stuff from happening. It's the health and safety side of things because that's the unknown. That's where my anxiety always lied in a project was the health and safety. Because you can tell someone not to do something because you know that it's not safe, yeah. But if that individual decides to go and do it anyway and injures themselves, you're you're still partially to blame for that. You're you're still gonna be questioned about it, you know. Someone's gonna come knocking at your door and go, Well, what did you do to make sure that you were gonna prevent this or you could prevent this from happening? So you've got to have your ducks in a row, you know, and and a lot of people don't understand. Like if you own a company, like a property development company, yeah, yeah, or you know, you're buying properties, you're flipping them, or whatever, you're still a commercial entity when it comes to the HSE. And the HSE will look at you like an SME. They will, you know, you're you are a commercial entity, so you are governed by the regulations and the guidance that they put forward. So if you breach any of that stuff, someone hurts themselves and they're off work for more than seven days. Well, that's notifiable. If you don't notify it, you're in big trouble. Yeah, you know, so those things are the those are the big anxiety points because they're the ones that you don't have the full control over. You can control timelines to a degree, yeah. You can do all the planning to control the timeline to make sure it works, you can do all of the controlling and planning to do um with the resource development as well, like on what you're purchasing and what's going to actually go into the project, but you cannot control the ignorance of someone on the day.

SPEAKER_02 30:57

No. Because I was gonna ask you a question, okay, how do what do you put in place to make it less of a problem? But I suppose you've just knocked a nail on the head, really, haven't you? You you've essentially put in place structures to try and mitigate it, but at the end of the day, if if someone something out of your control comes along, you're not gonna be able to control that anyway. So for me, I mean, if I was in your position right now trying to manage a project, that'll make me feel horrendous. And for me, with uh my opportunities that are coming up, for example, it's the legalities, the things that I can't control quite so much that make me anxious. It's not the doing it, it's not the physical property, it's the legalities, like you say, that makes me anxious. Um, because that's not what I'm familiar with. You're obviously more familiar with uh the legality side than I am because you've come from the project management background. Um but for me, yeah, that that that they're the bits that kind of make me anxious. Um, but then once you get into them and then you read and you comprehend and understand them, for me I have to do things to overcome that anxiety, for example. Um, which and I think I I think that's an ADHD thing as well, because I've always had to do to learn. You're practical. Yeah, I'm practical. I have to practically learn how to do that thing to overcome, to go, okay, that was fine, everything's okay. But what happens before that is I think about it too much. So I like I know where you say about um like oh it's all in control, but do you still have the problem where you overthink things because you've got ADHD too?

SPEAKER_01 32:39

Yeah, definitely. I mean, like, you know, you could let's say you're doing a multi-million pound project, right? And you've got um, I'll just relate it back to project management um and you've got a big site going on, and you'll have you know welfare units on there, you'll have compounds and everything, yeah. Well, you're responsible, believe it or not, if someone breaks into that compound that evening, one evening, and they injure themselves in your compound, you're responsible. Yeah? So what have you done that's reasonably practicable to prevent someone from gaining access? Yeah? Sometimes, you know, on projects, the bigger ones that I was doing, I'd lay in bed and you know, I'd be asleep and I'd have a dream about something happening, like, did I lock the compound up? Did I lock the um you know the the welfare unit up, whatever, you know, di is the cot is the kosh cabinet locked up? And you like go you wake up and you're like did I lock it up? You're like, oh my god, oh my god. You know, I've I've I've been once or a couple of times before, I've left a job, like, you know, it's an hour and a half away or whatever, yeah. I've got home, right? This has happened twice in my career, right? And they're both both times they were projects that were pretty far away. I've got home, I'm in the middle of my dinner, or I'm laying in bed, or whatever, yeah, right, and it's like hours after I got home, and I've gone, oh my god, I didn't lock up. And I've got back in my car and I've driven back to the site just to go and lock up because that anxiety for me, I couldn't it would be it would just be sods law that someone tries to break into it that night or something happens that night, and then the next morning I arrive at the site and like there's red tape around it, or like precaution tape, and the police are there, or something. I'm like, oh no, what's going on? You know, those those things like they would definitely um worry me. But what I would like to say to you is now that we've been talking about this for a bit more, I can see you've sort of eased a little bit, yeah, yeah, by talking about this. Yeah, I can see you're not as tense as you were when we very first started. I can see that you were struggling to sort of get your breath a little bit when you were talking about this, and I can see you were quite emotional, right? And it's good because yeah, this is raw and these are real conversations. So now we're sort of coming to the end of this subject that we're talking about. If you were sitting where I'm sitting right now, what would you be telling yourself?

SPEAKER_02 35:08

Don't get in your own head. You need to explain how you're feeling to people so that they can help you articulate and essentially offload the burden so that it can be understood, so that the problem can be dealt with. If it is a problem, you can discuss maybe, maybe it's not as big a problem as uh as as you think it is. You need to look at the issues that you're thinking about and think, do they affect me or you right now? Are they a problem right now? If they're not, don't worry about them. Obviously, you need to think about the long game, of course, but what can you do right now to ensure that your imminent future is safe and secure? That's what I would say.

SPEAKER_01 35:58

I'd say that's really good advice.

SPEAKER_02 36:00

Yeah, and here's the problem. I I kind of know it, but it's still difficult when you're in when you're in the situation to to to think outside your head, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 36:08

But that's why it's good when we talk about these things.

SPEAKER_02 36:10

Yeah, and and this is why we're doing it.

SPEAKER_01 36:12

Yeah. So and I I what I what I would say also is that you know you're you're you're very you very much get inside your own head, and there isn't really any um value that you get out of it. If you could get some value out of it, like critical thinking, yeah, and doing like risk analysis on things, yeah, right. That's critically thinking, and you're able to you know be able to explain to yourself why you're doing these things and how it's gonna look, then it it would be it would make more sense. But why don't you so why don't you because you said you're you're more practical, and I'm very much a practical person as well. I've always been more hands-on, you know. I've said to in the past, you know, academically I'm not that great, so I really do struggle to do those things. Why do you not surround yourself like I do with people around you that are infinitely more experienced, infinitely more successful, because being able to aspire to those people is for me more uh worth more than me trying to figure it all out for myself because they've been there, they've done it, and see what they've done. You know, like you're talking about the rent-to-rent, yeah? You're worried about that rent-to-rent, you're worried about getting it, you're worried about what it's going to look like, yeah. Talk to someone who's got five, yeah. Ask them how they got their first one. Ask them about what it took to get their first one and what happened after the first three months of getting their first rent-to-rent. What did it take from them? Like, what was their time involvement in that, you know, and you've got the option to speak to people on those things as well, you know, whether you speak to a mentor, whether you go onto a call and talk about it. Because what it would do is it will give you it will give you the ability to sort of have it in your mind of what to expect, and I think that's really the key for you. Is it's not that you're worried about what's going to happen or anything like that, it's that you don't actually have any expectations at the moment because you don't know what it's gonna look like. I agree with you partially, but I think I have too much expectation of myself as well. But you're creating those expectations which are unfounded because they're based on nothing.

SPEAKER_02 38:25

Yeah, maybe so. Um, but for me it's because I don't want to fail fundamentally. I'm s I'm scared of failure, and that's why I think I get wound up so much. Alright. So I I I yeah, I I agree with what you're saying, um, but then uh I also see it from a different perspective as well.

SPEAKER_01 38:43

Alright, see it from this perspective then, yeah. You're talking about this particular rent event, yeah, right, which is causing you a bit of anxiety. Yeah. Is it the only opportunity there is in this world? No, definitely not. Oh, sorry, there isn't. There is more.

SPEAKER_02 38:57

Definitely not.

SPEAKER_01 38:58

Oh, okay, fine. Right. So if this one doesn't work, you have the opportunity to go and get a different one, correct? Definitely, yeah. So you're being emotional and you're emotionally attaching yourself to this one opportunity because it's the first real opportunity that's come across your desk. You need to detach yourself from the emotional part of that, okay? And you need to be building a pipeline. And you know this stuff. I do. You know, I'm telling you this stuff, you know this stuff. You need to be building a pipeline, right? Don't be looking right, so you've got the first one that looks like it might go ahead or whatever, and you've you've just dropped the ball on everything else around you. You've gone, right, I'm gonna just focus on this one thing. That's why it's causing you anxiety, because you don't have a backup plan. Whereas if you had three or four that you were talking to agents about or landlords, that you could be taking on, well, now you're sport for choice, and now your problem is which one's the best one, not it, I need to make this one work, it's the only one I've got.

SPEAKER_02 39:49

I agree with you, but at the same time, because uh because I'm worried about time, which we've talked about before as well, um, I think I get I get paranoid about then I've got to go out and spend more time chasing more. But this is a this is for me also a good opportunity because I don't want to waste it because I don't I I know that it's a it's it's a four-bedroom detached house in Colchester. I know it works in Colchester, you see, it's got the potential for five bedrooms. Um they obviously come up, they obviously come up quite a lot, but I'm working with an estate agent who's kind of feeding me opportunities, and then I feel like I'm gonna let him down as well, which is ridiculous, I know, but I'm just explaining the thoughts that go through my brain, basically. Um and you're right, you're right, you've got to create that pipeline. But because uh I feel in such a rush all the time because I I feel like I'm running out of time, which is another issue, uh you do, yeah. We'll talk about that. Uh we will talk about that. Uh I get wound up because I feel like I'm gonna let people down, yeah, you know, and then I'm gonna have to start the process again, basically. So uh I completely agree with what you're saying, but I'm just uh I'm kind of I'm kind of telling you what it feels like for me being on the other side of it at the same time, do you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 41:14

Yeah, I appreciate that, and I like the fact that you're being open and honest about it and because this this will reflect with a lot of people as well, yeah, won't it?

SPEAKER_02 41:21

And this this this is this is this is uh like I said earlier, this isn't a me problem. This is a business problem. This is this is a growing problem. Um but it's it's difficult, it's difficult to implement exactly what you're saying, because I know what you're telling me is right, and and the the irony of like our uh our kind of relationship on here is obviously I don't know what people think, maybe uh maybe people think oh Matt's the patient, Luke's the tutor, it's not the case, it's not the case at all, is it? And I don't see it like that. But what what ends up happening is because I'm such a raw person, that's where I kind of thrive. Some people they're they're very good at keeping it uh keeping it controlled, keeping their emotions in. I'm not, I never have been, and uh mind over mortar has allowed me to go, okay, this is what I'm good at. I'm good at expressing how I feel that the the the irony of our relationship is that when I express them to you, you you seem to be able to articulate them, what I'm feeling in such a good way that it then portrays this like student teacher thing, and it is, it it is kind of like that, and I I want that to be the case with Mind Over Mortar as well because we're not trying to be experts well, but if they can see that then and and they feel that resonation too, then that helps them grow, doesn't it? Yeah, definitely. I mean in the same way it's helping me grow.

SPEAKER_01 42:53

Yeah, I'm by no means a teacher, a tutor, a therapist, or anything. I just have I just have I have a lot of life experience. Like I've said before, I had to grow up quickly. Okay, so I've got I've got a lot of life experience. I've experienced things that a lot of people, you know, thankfully will never have to experience in their life, you know, and hopefully my children won't have to go through what I went through with my upbringing. And you know, you compare me to other people, then you go, well, actually, do you know what you're not gonna do in too bad. Now, one thing that really helped me with the mindset shift on my problems, my specific my specific problems, right? Was actually looking at my situation in comparison to everything else around me that's going on. So I would encourage you to do the same thing, and I'll I'll tell you a couple of things. So when I look at my life and I look at what I've had to go through, you know, some people might look at it and go, Wow, you know, that's that's pretty powerful, you know, he's had he's gone through a lot. And then other people might look at that and go, Well, he's not been through what I've been through, and that's fine. But you know, that those are the people that I look at, and that gives me the confidence to go, yeah, it's not that bad. You know, it's really not that bad. So when it comes to actually doing that in in practice, yeah, I came across a video, I don't know, it must have been like years ago now. I came across a video and I'll and I'll share it with you. And I'll share it actually, I'll put it down in the uh in the in the description as well. It's a YouTube video, right? And what it does is it puts everything into perspective for you because it makes you feel like you are that big, right? And that might sound counterintuitive, it might sound like, well, I don't want that to happen because I don't want to feel any smaller than I already feel, but it does it in a way that actually makes you go, huh, my problems are actually not that bad. You know, and and uh again, I'll I'll share it with you and I'll share it in the uh in the description as well. Yeah, definitely. And I for me that's a lot of the anxiety sort of uh destruction in my life. I try to I try to use those key things that I I look at other other perspective, other people, other you know, um real world things that are going on. You could relate it to like the war for God's sakes. Do you know what I mean? You look at the war that's going on at the moment. I mean, there's always a bloody war going on. I mean we're we're shaking we're human beings, we're stupid. We are honestly stupid. Like, why on earth we're doing you know silly things like that and going to war over you know political um and political things and commodities and that and it's like you know, it just makes no bloody sense in today's age, it really doesn't, but you know, I digress. All I'm trying to say is fundamentally when it comes to the anxiety and how you feel, right? The best way to lessen your problems and make your problems feel smaller is to look at the the rest of the world and to look at everything else around you and and actually put yourself into perspective on those things and go, right, well, if you was to do that, I'm basically an ant, you know, and what problems does an ant have when it's walking around? I've got to find food, gotta find food, gotta find food, gotta find food, gotta find food, gotta find food, found food, right, back to the nest, back to the nest, back to the nest. Those are its problems, you know, whereas your problems are a lot more dynamic, and I get that, but uh you're a lot of your problems come from your self-confidence. That's really I think what the underlying issue is for you is your self-confidence, not your self-judgment or anything like that, it's the confidence that you have in yourself because it it's it's my confidence to be able to provide what I'm saying I can provide.

SPEAKER_02 46:49

And if you can't? I don't know, I don't think about it. Because it hasn't happened, right? No, I suppose, but uh I d I don't think about it because I suppose, yeah, there's there's not you give me some real world. Yeah, I'm I'm I'm I suppose I'm I don't want to experience that outcome, so I don't think about it.

SPEAKER_01 47:03

Give me a real world example right now of your life right now, where you've you've tried you've gone you've gone after something, yeah, right? And it's critically failed in a way that has actually detrimentally affected your life and your family's life.

SPEAKER_02 47:18

My motorlight crash.

SPEAKER_01 47:20

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 47:20

Yep. Uh see what you brought it up now. Yeah, that's uh great point actually, because that has had a massive effect um physically and mentally. Oh, you know how to hit me hard, don't you? It is a student teacher thing. It's not for God's sake. It's not, I'm just playing. No, but it's it's exactly it. Uh it's probably the only real physical result of a poor decision I've had thinking about it. All of the other all of the other um outcomes have been because of uh probably emotional um emotional reaction, like I said, with the anger, which is then only my problem anyway. So don't know what to say now. On that note, I think it's a free rabbit up. That's a good place to think that's a good place to stop.

SPEAKER_01 48:23

So um, yeah, as always, guys, thanks for watching. Um you can uh subscribe here and watch our last video here. Now, me and Matt have started up a um a little support page uh which is sort of like buy me a coffee. Now it's absolutely no obligation whatsoever to anyone. You guys just watching this is is enough for us, um, but it will help us you know continue making these uh these episodes and these podcasts. So uh if you do have um the ability to um to donate anything towards us and support the podcast, then um the link will be down in the description. If not, and you're still just enjoying this content, then that's good for us as well.