Why Nothing Feels Enough Anymore

Do you ever feel like no matter how much you achieve, it still does not feel like enough?

In this episode of Mind Over Mortar, we talk about the constant pressure to keep moving, why the goalposts always seem to shift, and what happens when you realise success does not give you the feeling you thought it would.

We get into the reality of building a business, sacrificing time, chasing bigger goals, feeling guilty when you rest, and why so many driven people struggle to actually enjoy what they have already built.

We also talk about dopamine, comparison, family time, burnout, business pressure, and the idea that maybe nothing feels enough because we have forgotten how to recognise progress.

In this episode, we discuss:

• Why success often does not feel how you expected

• The pressure of constantly moving goalposts

• Business, family, and the guilt of building

• Dopamine, stimulation, and never feeling satisfied

• Why rest can feel uncomfortable

• Burnout, pressure, and carrying too much at once

• Asking for help and letting other people lighten the load

• Why progress matters more than perfection

If this resonates with you, let us know in the comments:

Do you think people are becoming more successful, but less satisfied?

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There’s no pressure at all. Just listening is more than enough.

But if you do choose to support, it genuinely helps us keep these episodes going.

Follow Mind Over Mortar for more real conversations around business, mindset, pressure and personal growth.

⏰⏰ VIDEO CHAPTERS ⏰⏰

0:00 Introduction

0:44 Why Nothing Feels Enough Anymore

8:17 Success That Does Not Feel Like Success

18:43 Why Happiness Gets Zapped

29:28 Paying for Expertise

39:15 The Weight You Carry in Business

43:49 Final Thoughts & Outro

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

So I don't feel like anything feels like enough anymore, no matter how much you achieve. I feel like the more that you try and achieve things in life, the further the goalpost moves. Every time you get to the point where you're like, right, I'm on the ch I'm on the journey, and this is what I'm gonna do, this is what I'm after, I want to get this. And the journey tends to be like the whole experience because once you get it, you're like, right, what's next? But already by that point, you're already thinking about what the next thing is anyway, so then you're on to the next thing. So it's like a a continuous conveyor belt of like one thing after another, just constantly striving to achieve something else. And like, what happens when you get to the point where like there's nothing left to achieve? Like, what happens then?

SPEAKER_01 0:44

Can you give me an example of of what you've been building where you don't feel satisfied?

SPEAKER_00 0:51

So where what I've been building, I don't feel satisfied. So obviously, my like my whole life really, um, you know, but if you want to put it down into you know, instead of the macro and put it into the micro, like, you know, it would be the the the yearly achievements, like what I want to achieve in a year. So like when I write my business plan down, I want to have four properties on the books this year, I want to uh have worked with you know ten investors this year, I want to have raised half a million pounds in finance this year, you know, I want to I want to have like financial stability this year, those those are the things that I I've sort of looked to do, and then like inside every one of those, there's like smaller things that you have to do to achieve those big things. And every time that you go through the smaller tasks to achieve the bigger ones, what you find is that once you get to once you get if you've got a clear plan, you get to that point there, and then you achieve that big task, and you're like it there's no it doesn't seem to be like any payoff, there doesn't seem to be like that like that sort of you know dopamine hit that you're expecting to have, like and that extended period of time where you just go you you you you let your breath out for like six months and you go, oh yeah, it doesn't it doesn't happen, like it never happens, it's constantly just grind, grind, grind, grind, grind. Like I don't know what it is about us, like we're just wired to do that, and I'm I don't know if everyone feels like that, or whether it's just like people who are like you know, on entrepreneurial shit, you know, like have that mentality about them, whether they're like that they they're the ones that want to strive to get this and to get that and to keep moving and to better their lives and that, you know. The goal is that I want to l live a comfortable life with my family, you know. That's that's the goal, and there's a hundred and one ways to skin a cat to get there, you know.

SPEAKER_01 2:41

But what but what's the irony and uh the detriment in between? Because you want to live a comfortable life, don't you? But then you have to give up a certain point of your life. That's Luke Tickin for anyone who's listening. You have to give up time to build your business to create these things and make them happen, don't you? But in essence, you're making yourself uncomfortable, you're taking yourself away from family to make it happen. Yep. Now, when you're planning these tasks and these goals, do you think about those things at the time? No. Why?

SPEAKER_00 3:19

I don't know. I don't because I've I I I look I I guess I look at it like my time to spend with my family like and have that sort of you know that that laid back, relaxed sort of luxury sort of lifestyle, it isn't now. Like now is the foundations building, now is the hard times, now is where big decisions and tough decisions need to be made, and you know, quite often that means sacrificing time with my family. But the goal effectively is to spend more time with my family, yeah. So you have to almost run away from your goal to be able to achieve it, you have to go the opposite way, and anyone who knows who's who's built a business in life, they'll understand that they'll know that it's difficult, you know, but it's not it's not easy, it's not very often that you find that someone comes into um an a business and they they start it up from scratch and it just takes off and they ride the gravy train forever. That just very rarely happens. It does happen, but it very rarely happens.

SPEAKER_01 4:18

It's not sustainable if it does a lot of the time.

SPEAKER_00 4:21

No, because it that you know, the business models when when you ride the gravy train early on, the business models tend to be finite in time, so it tends to be something that people need now, but maybe don't need going forwards in the future. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:34

So I've I've seen it, I've seen um an all sorts of analogies. Uh, one of them is the building the roots of a tree, for example, where the roots take ages to develop, don't they? And the the the the stem, the stub of the tree is tiny for a long time.

SPEAKER_00 4:48

Yeah, I think I've seen the same thing actually, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:51

But then it builds up and then it turns into a massive oak tree. Takes a hundred years.

SPEAKER_00 4:54

And that's all to do with perspective, isn't it? Because you look at the oak tree, and I've seen I've seen something similar to that, where you've got an oak tree, big established oak tree on one side of the hill, and then the other side of the hill, you've got like a little sapling, which is like sticking out of the ground, and you can't all you can see is those two things, yeah. But then it it says like um here's the here's the mindset shift, and then it shows the soil underneath the ground, and you can see that the root structures are both the same, but it just means that this one's had more time to grow. Yeah, so as long as your roots are good, as long as your roots are well established, then it doesn't matter if you've got a sapling at the moment or whether you've got a red oak that takes 10 people holding hands to at the bottom to get around. You know, the the the mat the fact of the matter is it's it's putting those roots in place and it's it's building from that point there.

SPEAKER_01 5:44

But what social media doesn't want you to see is the way that it affects that little sapling who's building its roots and all of the things around it. For example, like we've talked about in previous episodes, our family, and then the toilet takes on us and our body. That's what we face here at Mind Ever Mortar. So when you're writing down those targets, what makes you write down those targets specifically? I know they will obviously be dependent on what's going on at the time, but what makes you go, that's a good idea, I'm gonna do that.

SPEAKER_00 6:13

They tend to come from the bigger goal. When when I'm mapping out like a big achievement in my life that I want, I'll I'll look at what it takes to get to there that I think, you know, and I'll do a load of research into it, and I'll look at how other people have done it as well, and I'll go, oh well, they've done this, they've done that. And I'll try and get as much information as I can, and then just pick the best information from those. So it really comes down to what my overall goal is and what I want the outcome to be, and how that looks will determine what those smaller steps to build it will look like.

SPEAKER_01 6:43

Now, is there a definitive point when you go, okay, that goal is ticked off. I feel really good, I feel like I'm gonna enjoy it, I feel comfortable, I feel like I can relax, I can enjoy my family. No, no, because I I haven't experienced that yet. That's what I was gonna ask.

SPEAKER_00 7:00

I was gonna say, yeah, have you ever hit a goal and then gone, well, it doesn't feel like I expected it to?

SPEAKER_01 7:04

No, no, I haven't yet. In my brain, there's always a goal, right? And there's that point, that that that drop-off point where you jump off the cliff into the sea, and it's nice and blue and it's uh it's clear water, and you're sitting there on your sunbed drinking the cocktail. But it's never happened yet. All it's done is basically like ground me down into to this point where I'm like, okay, now I've got um kind of tendonitis because I've been physically working on doing my house up. I've got sleepless nights and anxiety because I'm building my business, but at the same time, in those minor little pockets where I do sit back and I go, hang on, uh a year ago I didn't even own a MacBook Pro, for example, and I didn't know how to use Apple devices because I just never I never had a reason to. Do you see what I'm saying? And it's not until you actually sit back and then look at it, but we don't take the time to sit back and then sit and actually look through our phone and go, Oh yeah, I did that like only literally two weeks ago when we said about um when I walked in the door and I was like, Oh, we're it's two weeks ago we were recording. Lots changed in two weeks, isn't it? Yeah. With the opportunities that we've got come up, but I still don't feel any more satisfied than I did two weeks ago.

SPEAKER_00 8:17

That I think that's the that's the problem because what I was gonna do is I was gonna reframe that question and I was gonna say, right, forget about like business as such, like and what you're doing now, thinking back to something else in your life. Have you ever achieved something but it didn't feel like you expected it to? And maybe that might be one of your hobbies that you know, whether it was like extreme sports hobbies that you've you've done in the past, yeah, where you've gone, I want to learn that, that looks pretty cool, and then you've learnt it, you've bought all the equipment and that, and then you've done it, but then you haven't continued doing it.

SPEAKER_01 8:51

Oh, that's that's been the story of my life. Which is why we why I got to a point where I suddenly thought this isn't sustainable anymore because I wasn't getting any satisfaction. So I used to race motocross, um, I competed in motorbike trials as well when I was younger. Used to love it because it's an adrenaline rush, right? But then I realised that it just cost me money and would just end up breaking my body. So I bought a road bike instead and started doing track days because it was faster, so I got more of an adrenaline rush, and then that's just expensive, and then I broke I smashed myself up and thought, hang on, maybe I should start to uh do something different. Then I thought, you know what I'm gonna learn to windsurf, I'm gonna learn to kite surf. I haven't had time to do them either because they don't give me the satisfaction because I learned to do them, and now it's like okay, well that's done. But they are kind of physical sports that to me now I see they just cost me money, they don't actually give me a return. So what I'm now doing is I'm building businesses that will then give me a return. But the problem with a business is they don't give you an adrenaline rush, he says. They probably do.

SPEAKER_00 9:51

Comparison and dopamine, isn't it? It's like yeah, they don't give you an adrenaline rush to jump on a motorbike in the same way. Do you think it's that things like I say, comparison and and dopamine, when you're looking at how other things in your life engage engage you? Like if you look at social media, for example, yeah, right, how that's constantly like stimulating you. So things like that that keep your attention, keep you stimulated, which is what we hope is happening here. But it might not be.

SPEAKER_01 10:21

Well, if people watch it and they can see how like how anxious and tight I am right now, that would probably be quite funny to watch.

SPEAKER_00 10:27

So yeah. But do you feel like it's it it it comes from that need for constant stimulation, which which goes back you know, relates quite well to like the ADHD side of things, like you know, that's that's definitely a big trait for people with ADHD is that they they need consistent stimulation, and and it's the same for kids, and I think it comes down to like a regulation in your own brain, it's your ability to regulate your emotions and stimulate yourself. Where you know, children, for example, like my my son, my four-year-old, yeah, he's um he needs stimulation, he needs like me to go, me to be playing with him, he needs like things to do, and I I I I don't necessarily give him all of that all the time for two reasons. One is that I might not be able to, I'm not there or whatever, but two, when I do give him those those, you know, moments of stimulation, I do stuff with him because I do I I will go out my way and I'll go and help my son or you know go and play with him or whatever. But when I've I've done that, I've spent half an hour doing something with him that's mind-numbing normally. Yeah, um, no, I don't, I really do enjoy it.

SPEAKER_01 11:37

I do enjoy I I don't, I don't, oh I don't, and I I'm gonna go play boggle or something like that. This is this is gonna make me look horrendous as well. I absolutely adore my son and I want to provide the best life I possibly can for him because he's utterly amazing, but I hate those times, those mundane times of playing with him because I'm not achieving something. Yeah, even though I am achieving something, I'm spending time with my son, he's developing, he's growing, but I don't get an imminent response of oh, I've actually actively achieved something today, physically achieved something, and this has always been my problem, and I I I now think it's an ADHD problem. So when I was an engineering, for example, doing my apprenticeship, I loved fabricating um with steel work because I got a result. I got something physically in front of me, like perfect, I built that. That's great, that's a good feeling, that was a satisfying feeling. With deeper satisfaction, like your son, or like building a business, which is a long-term project, I don't get that dopamine hit like seeing that thing that I'd built, even though my son's right in front of me, so it is kind of the same. But because obviously life takes so long for him to develop, I don't get that satisfaction, so I I get so bored and I get frustrated because I'm not pushing forward, I'm not achieving things, it's at a slow pace, and then I get then I get wound out of myself because I'm like, no, I should appreciate the time of my son, but I want to be running at a hundred miles an hour to try and achieve a physical thing. Do you know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_00 13:19

I know what you're saying, and I think that a lot of that's to do with with how we were um brought up, the way that we were brought up in the era where like television was like a big thing, yeah, right? And we used to sit and watch TV and you know, before school, after school, when you're eating your dinner, and a lot of families, you know, grew up in the 80s, like when you could afford to have a TV in your house, it was like the it was their source of entertainment. But what that done is that created a consistent source of stimulation, so then when it was down to you to stimulate yourself, it became difficult. This is something that I've I've developed with like my my family as well, and the dynamic I realised it. So we don't let our kids watch loads of TV, like we very, very much limit them to what they're allowed to watch. Like they get up in the morning, they're not allowed to watch TV before before school, before breakfast. Um, you know, because I found that if you put the kids in front of the TV and then ask them to eat their breakfast, they're like, Yeah, I'm exactly the same, and they don't eat, so they're like, Oh, hang on a minute, like this is taking over their their full capacity, like their bandwidth is is not able to process anything else other than what's going on on that TV screen, yeah. So, like eating their breakfast, it takes them like half an hour, whereas it's just a bowl of cereal, it should take them 10 minutes, right? So we've decided, me and me and Jess, we decided that we were gonna like literally not let them do that. Um and she's really good at doing that as well. Even recently, we've we've seen that it's made a difference because I don't want my kids to grow up in a society where it's normal to just like be glued to a TV screen, and I'd say even more now so these days, it that's more prominent in kids, in adults, in everyone. So when me and my son like play games together and stuff like that, I will do that with him for a period of time, yeah. And then once we've done something together or whatever, you know, I'll I'll say, right, okay, that's enough, or you know, you you you can carry on playing, and he'll go, well, he'll just be he'll want the constant stimulation, he'll want more from me, yeah. But that's where I'll push back, and it might sound really hard, but I'll say to him, Well, you go and entertain yourself if you're bored, you go and find something to do now, right? That it's you know to entertain yourself. I'm not gonna be your source of entertainment. I love playing with him, I do, but I think it's also important to teach them that they cannot rely on everyone else around them to stimulate their life because otherwise, what you end up having is like social media personalities and people who have that constant like uh presence in their life of a camera in their face and they want to be known, and that's how they get their dopamine hit in life, that's how they get their stimulation. So they literally present their whole life on the internet, and and it's not a bad thing for some people, it works, you know, but I don't want my kids to be doing that.

SPEAKER_01 16:18

Isn't it ironic that we're on a podcast right now doing exactly that?

SPEAKER_00 16:21

It is very ironic that we're on a podcast today.

SPEAKER_01 16:23

I can I completely agree with you. I I actually Jay uh Jade and I we talked about removing the telly from our house yesterday because we have uh we have our one child, um he's three, and I need him to be bored because I don't want him being the same as me. I do, but I don't because I don't want him feeling exactly what you said, where he has to be stimulated all the time. And he's very good at going in the garden and just playing in his sandpit like a child should. However, I do worry if it's gonna have the opposite effect where we go too extreme, where he then becomes antisocial because of it. Because he doesn't have a brother or sister, does he? No, maybe we will one day. I was gonna say, will he? Will he will he have a brother or sister one day? I don't know, it's up to my wife. I'm just the provider.

SPEAKER_00 17:14

You're just a provider, yeah. I think there's a bit more to say than that. You're not just a donor, for God's sakes.

SPEAKER_01 17:21

But it will be interesting to see in the future whether he um has got a better attention span than me, for example. Now I am very focused, I would say in short pockets, where I obsess over something to get it done. But I think that leads on to the original uh subject of this with having to move the goalposts um because I'm not satisfied. Because of those short pockets of energy, I think that is what leads to being unsatisfied because things that are worth building take a long time. Going back to the root analogy. Yeah. So what I would constantly do is change and move the goalposts because if I could get satisfaction quickly, that was a win. Whee! Yeah, right, okay, I'll have a rest now. And that that's that up and up and down cycle that we've talked about many times on here. Do you think we've just become numb to wins? What I'll tell you what I've done is I've purposely tried to subdue myself so that I don't live that cycle of excitement, euphoria, and then depression. But what's happened is it now means that I don't appreciate anything. Sadly, I do, I do appreciate things, but I don't feel it like I used to. And in some ways I miss it, in other ways I know that I'm building something that will last as well. Which is kind of a satisfying feeling now, actually, that I'm sitting here saying it.

SPEAKER_00 18:43

It's interesting because I I've got a I've got a bit of a different perspective on that. I feel like something just clicked in my brain when you said that. Right. And that was my happiness has been zapped through this need to constantly want more and need more and have this these goals to set. And you tell yourself you're gonna get that dopamine hit at the end, and you're gonna feel happy that you've done it and you've achieved it. And I don't think people take the time to actually sit down and process what I have accomplished, write it down and go, actually, yeah, do you know what that is good? And you think, you know, I feel like I'm gonna be rewarded at the end when I go, right, these are my goals, this is my business plan, yeah, right, this is what I'm gonna achieve this year. And then I get to the end of the year, right? And you go, right, well, I did everything that I was said I was gonna do. Great, I can feel happy now, but I don't. And this is this is the the problem. Like, I don't I don't feel happy. I don't feel happy that I've achieved those things. I don't feel I don't feel like it's it's moved the goalpost mentally in a way that I thought it was going to. And it's it it's weird that we live in this world now where there's just so there's so much to do, there's so many things that you want to do in life that nothing feels good enough anymore. Like nothing feels like it's worth the worth like the the the journey if that makes sense. Like it is, it is worth the journey, but what are you what are you realistically getting out of it? Like, okay, right, well, for me it's time, yeah. So I want to be able to get more time. Great, so I'll I'll earn more time, yeah, back from my family and me, and then I'm gonna be happy. Well, I've got a question, what are you gonna do with the time? Well, the the the whole idea of it is that so I don't have to work as much, so me and my family can go on um on vacation um you know three or four times a year, we can enjoy some of the the nicer things in life, you know. I can go back to a point of where I don't have to look at my bank account, you know, to be able to go and afford things or go and do things, you know. That wouldn't be nice.

SPEAKER_01 20:47

But the reason I ask that is because I think for me, I kind of thrive when I've got stuff to do. But uh the irony of that is that when I've got stuff to do, I then burn myself out and then I resent it. But when I haven't got stuff to do, I then sit there and go, what can I do? You feel guilty for that? And then I I feel guilty or I feel like a failure because I'm not pushing forward. Which leads me back to why I then I hate those mundane moments, like we were saying about playing with the children. When I go on holiday, I actually struggle. And we we don't go on holiday very much as a family.

SPEAKER_00 21:29

You seem like a camper. You seem like I'm a yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:32

I I'd always uh so I've always had camper vans. I'm hoping to get a bigger one. That's because when we we go away, we go away to mountain bike because I'm then actively doing something, I'm getting a dopamine rush. I'd go away to kite surf, I'm getting a dopamine rush, but I can't go away and relax. I can't do it. Because I then feel guilty. And and and then I feel guilty about feeling guilty because I know that that's what my family needs. So it's this constant cycle of kind of feeling guilty for getting what I tried to achieve, which is time, like you say, more time to do what you want. But then when I get that time to do what I want, which I don't have at the minute because I'm still building, but I'm scared that I'm gonna sit there. It's a bit like retirement, I suppose, isn't it? You see, people retire and then suddenly they're like, Well, what do I do with my life? Some people embrace it, and some people they're like, This is great.

SPEAKER_00 22:30

See, I think you've I think you've just hit a very controversial point. Anyone who's retired, who's who's watching this, I think would likely disagree with you because maybe so everyone I know who's retired, yeah, even like my mother and father-in-law, yeah, they've they've never been busier.

SPEAKER_01 22:48

No, because you then have to fill it with something to make it profitable, it's not the word, is it?

SPEAKER_00 22:54

Well, make it yeah, to make it fulfilling. Yeah, but then that goes back to why nothing ever feels good enough because you've sp they've spent their whole life working up to the age of retirement, and that's now should be their time to be able to just do what they want, just relax, not have to worry about getting up early in the morning and going doing these things. But the problem is we're not wired like that. We're not wired to just sit down and do absolutely nothing. We want to stand up and we want to go and do things and experience things, you know. You know, we're like humours are messed up. We are like we we are messed up because you know, everything's ironic what we've been saying, like how we feel, but then we s we say, oh, we want to go and achieve all these things in life, and we know how to get there and we know what it's gonna take to do it, but then we're we're annoyed at the the fact that we've got to go and do all of these things to go and get what we're after, you know. So there's always like a point of of contention where you're you're on that seesaw, like you're never you're never in the middle, like you're either going up or you're down. Like it'd be lovely to go and live in the middle of that seesaw.

SPEAKER_01 23:55

I'd feel like there's a point where there is a point where you live in the middle, but there isn't.

SPEAKER_00 24:00

No, there isn't. I think the middle is a myth. I think it's like the horizon, it doesn't actually exist, but you can see it, but it's just a concept, it doesn't actually exist. Like this the I'd love to live in the middle of the seesaw, you know, all right on the pivot point because that you know that's not too choppy over there. But in reality, we we don't. We live on the end of the seesaw, and the problem I find with most like you know, with the seesaw analogy is that sometimes you're sitting on that seesaw by yourself, and that's when you're on your low points, yeah. And what you have to have in life is other people to be able to jump on the other side of the seesaw and balance it out so that you can have those high points as well, so it's almost like an equilibrium that you share with other people, and you know that yin and yang with going up and down, and that's like where family life comes in, that's where friends come in as well. I got a contrary to that point though, because I've always been someone that's always tried to do everything on my own. Uh you gonna alright, so you you're the guy who uses his legs to move the seesaw.

SPEAKER_01 25:00

I'm the guy that would come up with some contraption that would then throw a rock on the other side of the to to lift myself up. Do you see what I'm saying? And and then I'd struggle and and push, and that's why I've kind of burnt myself out and got tendonitis in my arms and stuff like this, because but I used to get satisfaction out of that. But the stupid thing is it would actually hold me back because it would slow everything down and make things infantly harder. Then I'd get a bit of satisfaction going, oh yeah, well I designed that and made that and I did it on my own. Um, specifically me doing up my house and building everything myself a garage, patio, full gut job, shebang. But a smarter person would utilise people they know, but then I've always felt guilty reaching out to people for help as well. Well, it's it's it's not help if you're paying them. Well, it's not, no. But I I have the same issue, I have the same situation with you, for example. I've said this to you before, like I feel guilty going, look, this is not so much now, because we do it, we do it a lot.

SPEAKER_00 25:58

Oh no, you should still feel guilty.

SPEAKER_01 25:59

Uh you should feel guilty for me being here, you know, pulling these ideas out your brain. So and that's something that I'm trying to overcome. Yeah. And I don't know, I don't know if that's a trust issue, if that's a uh definitely a trust issue. If that's uh an ego thing, maybe. I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_00 26:20

Definitely both.

SPEAKER_01 26:21

But uh I I am starting to work towards um working with JV Partners and co-sources going forward, maybe a project planner too. Do you know one? No. Do I know what? A project planner.

SPEAKER_00 26:35

A project planner? Yeah. I know, I know, a pretty decent one. Project manager.

SPEAKER_01 26:39

Sorry, project manager.

SPEAKER_00 26:40

Yeah, I know a pretty decent one.

SPEAKER_01 26:41

Oh, that's good. So maybe maybe I'll be looking to utilise that going forward as well. Try and get over my uh my fear of working with people. Yeah, definitely.

SPEAKER_00 26:51

But that you know, that's that's a that's a um an in you know like a relevant point as well. You know, I'm I put my services out there to people who who need help project managing their jobs that they're doing, and I can provide lots of different levels of of management as well. Whereas, you know, someone might just say, Oh, can you project manage this for me? And someone goes, Well, yeah, I can do that for you, and you just get what you get. Whereas, you know, I can tailor it to exactly what you need, um, what level your input is, and based on the distance I am from the job as well, you know. Um, but there's there's lots of people who will who will try and sort of do it themselves because they want to learn and they want to gain the experience, and again, that's absolutely fine. But if if you're gonna struggle and you're gonna do that, it goes back to like it's not being good enough again, like you'll get to the point where like something goes wrong and you'll fail and you'll go, Oh sugar, I should have I should have uh maybe got someone in to come and do this for me instead of me trying to sort of do it myself. Um, you know, and and that's another thing I'm trying to build, but you know, recently I had someone reach out, um, really lovely guy reached out, you know, and I spoke to him about his project, and um he showed me you know what he wanted and was interested in project management, and you know, I'm I'm not just some geezer who's done a few refurbs, you know. I've I've got a lot of background in this, and I I understand and I know how to make these these work, and so I the the value that I can bring would be much greater than you know John down the road, who's recently just finished his second BRR, you know, who can project manage it for you. So when I when I structure it and I send over like what I'd be looking for as far as a fee is concerned, yeah, I break it all down for them so that I'm very honest and very open and upfront about it, and what I can offer their projects as well. Some people might look at it and go, Well, that's overkill. Maybe you may be, but quite often, you know, you'll find that actually it's probably not, you know.

SPEAKER_01 28:53

There's a reason for it because there's been a lot of experience and learning and difficult times for yourself going into it, and that's why the fee is justifiable. Yes, and that and that that can be applied to any professional, can't it? Um something that I've always been on the other side where I've been like, no, I don't I don't need a professional, I don't want to pay that. And then I struggle. And now I'm at the point where I've I've I've beaten myself up and I'm unsatisfied with that process because I know that it has a profound effect on myself and those around me from doing it.

SPEAKER_00 29:28

Yeah, definitely. Like if you so if you've got a project, yeah, right, where you're you're gonna make a hundred grand on this flip, right? And you want me to project manage it, yeah, and I'm gonna charge you ten grand to project manage this job, right, over the next six months or whatever, yeah. Are you good you do you think that that's that's expensive? It's 10 10% basically of the profit that you're gonna make on it. Now, some people look at that and they go, Well, I don't want to give them 10%. Okay, fine, you don't give me 10%, you go and project manage it yourself, right? And then after all the mistakes and all of the time lapses and the delays and the materials and um contractors not turning up and everything else that's cost you money, you're you're now only walking away with 60 grand because it's cost you 40 grand in like additional bridging fees, in time downtime in extra material costs, and you know, because it hasn't been structured correctly, whereas you could have just earned an extra 30 grand and paid someone 10 grand, which is for their time. Because the thing is, I'm not saying that like I'm better than everyone else. What I'm saying is that my time is valuable because I can save you money with my skills.

SPEAKER_01 30:39

Definitely, definitely. I had a I did a podcast yesterday uh for my wedding um musician DJ business. Um it wasn't about that at all, it was about uh my photographer wanted to host the podcast with ex-couples. Uh so Jade and I went on there, we were talking about it, and uh we were talking about how much value there is in having professionals do their specific task. And the reason I say that is because that I was always a man of uh jack of all trades, master of none, like we've talked before, yes and no, I can do that, and um the photographer always gets people come along and say, Yeah, but I'll just I'll just use my phone, I'll give I'll give some phones to guests, they'll be able to take pictures. It doesn't work like that because they're often very frustrated with the result, and for a project like a wedding, which is hopefully a one, a once-in-a-lifetime experience. Now, when it comes to BRR projects, they're not necessarily a once-in-a-lifetime, but they are a significant chunk of your life, and they're a very expensive, important part of it. Having a professional ensure that it's done properly, so that you then don't regret it, which is why maybe I'm so unsatisfied now with a lot of things, because I've done I've made lots of mistakes in the process of learning lots of different skills. If you can have a professional mitigate that straight away, yes, you might not know the skill, but do you have to? Business people don't have to know all the skills, do they? They just need the end result. So having a professional like yourself manage that project so it's done correctly is so valuable now. And I've only I've only really come to terms with that in the past few years. Since I've been trying to build my music business, for example, like having me as a musician or a DJ provide the correct equipment, provide the correct structure, logistics, tools to get that job done to me is now fully worth the money.

SPEAKER_00 32:43

That's what I was gonna say, because like for you specifically, you do weddings. Now, a wedding can is arguably one of the most important days of a couple's life, and it takes a lot to make that work. You know, I've I've I'm married, um you're married? Yeah, yeah, you're married. Far too long.

SPEAKER_01 33:05

I don't I don't wear that because I've got calluses on my fingers when I'm doing work, basically.

SPEAKER_00 33:09

So then I it gets smashed up and then fair enough. That's why I wear one of the plat like the rubber ones. I don't wear my um my actual wedding ring because I've never seen a rubber ring. Yeah, that's crazy. I didn't realise that. Never been to splat you never you've never been to slip and slide. I didn't know that was a thing, I don't know. Yeah, I wear this because my my actual wedding ring is like a solid platinum ring, yeah. Um and it's like a it's really chunky as well, it's really heavy. So I uh I my son um hid it a couple of years ago, and it took I don't know like three or four weeks till we found it, and I was like, right, from that point on, it's going in the safe, and I just bought these these like silicon ones. Um so I'll just wear those now. But um, what I was gonna say was that you know the a wedding is arguably one of the most important days, and it takes a lot that goes into it. So, like when you're choosing a venue, when you're choosing the food, when you're choosing the caterers, when you're choosing the DJ, or where you're choosing like the the musician who's gonna come and play at your wedding as well. Because I've seen obviously you do DJing, but I've also seen that you do like the the very much sort of like bespoke style of of um of the acoustic guitar, acoustic guitar and the roaming musician, roaming musician walking around like the the room and that like with your wireless mic on and all that sort of stuff. Looks great, you know. So when it comes to like having like a professional sort of do that, it's really important, like it's really important they choose the right person to do that. And like, for example, me and my wife we had a DJ in the evening, but we actually had like um uh for the day, um, one of Jess's uh friends, Jack, he played the piano for us uh during like the day sort of thing, and he didn't have to do it, he didn't he did it for enough. We tried to like say, like, can we pay you? And he was like, No, it's fine, right? And like he was he was fantastic, but like even down to the videographer, like we had a videographer at our wedding, and it was the best move ever. I'll show you the video of our wedding like later on, but it was the best thing ever, so it just goes back to showing, like, you know, with a professional in place, it's it's I think it's really important to pay someone for their time because they're gonna make the product, the experience, the journey, whatever it is that you're looking to get out of it, that much better. And you think about business owners, like you don't look at you know, big conglomerate companies basically doing all the work themselves because they're trying to cut costs, you know, and they're trying to well, I mean obviously they do, but like they don't do it in a way that would detrimentally affect the outcome of the product, so they'll go, right? Well, we need an expert to do this or this, or well, how much does it cost? It doesn't matter, it doesn't matter how much it costs because this is what we need. So when when we're talking about um having like you know it it uh being enough and that so have you ever thought about when you're when you're doing something that relates to what we're talking about, where you're like, do I actually want this or do I just want the feeling of it?

SPEAKER_01 36:07

When an opportunity pops up, I'm of the belief that you have to take it and then you have to kind of deal with deal with it afterwards. So it's like a spontaneous, oh yeah, I can do that. It's calculated, yes, of course. It it probably used to be less when I was younger, but maybe because of that attitude of like having that euphoria of like, yes, I can do that, yep, we'll sort that out, we'll do it like this, this, this, this, leave it with me, we'll work out the logistics. Then because I get the crash afterwards of oh hang on, I've got to work this out, like we were talking about in the the anxiety podcast, it then causes that anxiety. Now I come to resent the process, so I don't get satisfaction out of it. Like I used to, so it then creates this sort of the this cycle of okay, well, why am I doing this? Why why am I doing it? Because the whole point of this is to make my life better, but it's not. But it's alright, because in the future, when I get to that place of comfort and I've got time and I've got all this, hopefully, money to spend and then invest in my family. Um, the irony is of it, it probably won't satisfy me because it might be too late. But at the same time, having said that, I'm still gonna keep doing it because I'm still gonna keep pushing. Hmm. So that and there's the reality, because I'm now sitting here and I've kind of calmed down from what I was earlier because we've been talking about all these things. I've released, I've relaxed a bit more. So now I'm in this better frame of mind. I'm like, no, I'm alright, I can handle that. Let's go and do some more. So then I go, okay. I think was it it was Jeremy, um, the mentor Jeremy on the Academy says the shiny penny syndrome. You sort of look and you go, yeah, I can do that, I can handle that. Right, that's gonna make my life better. So you go, okay, yes, I'm gonna do that, and then you you sign up to it, whatever. Then it comes with this burden, doesn't it? It comes with that weight on your shoulders. Okay, that's another that's a that's another stone in the rucksack. Yes, you might get that relief when you take the rucksack off for a bit. But then the the thing is you're stronger because you've been carrying around this weight of the rucksack full of rocks, full of these jobs that you've got loaded up on you. So then you think, alright, well I can handle more, let's take on some more because I'm now stronger. And then you you you take on a bigger rucksack, and then the cycle continues, and then you suddenly offload it. Then you take on an even bigger one. But you tell you what, I'm gonna climb a mountain with that rucksack as well. Do you see what I'm trying to say? And that's the cycle that I have going on in my brain, I think. And it's good because you get results, you get stronger. You uh you hopefully you you you build and you make money out of it, but it it's a continual cycle because I feel like when I've got stronger because I've been carrying the rucksack about, I then feel like it's a waste to not do something with it, so then I do more. Uh maybe maybe maybe that that that must be a feeling for most business people because that's why businesses grow, surely, and they don't go stagnant.

SPEAKER_00 39:15

Yeah, I think every business owner has the proverbial you know, bag, but some people's bags are different to others, you know. Some people have a 23 kilo suitcase that they carry around, some people have a rucksack like yourself, some people have a duffel bag, and some people have a loot-and-moving van that they're trying to push around. Yeah, and it's it's all just relative to your journey, where you are, and what you've got going on, and you can recognise that someone carrying around a fully loaded suitcase is gonna struggle a lot more than someone carrying around a rucksack. It's really just about filling your bag to the capacity that you know that you're capable of carrying and handling, and if you overfill the bag, it's recognising, well, I've got to let some go because I can't continue this journey in a stable way without letting some of the weight out of this bag.

SPEAKER_01 40:09

But what if you need all that stuff for the uh for the location that you're trying to get to?

SPEAKER_00 40:14

You don't know. This is the thing like you don't need all of that baggage, and if you do genuinely need all of that baggage, then you make separate trips. You don't try and carry it all in one go, you break it down because otherwise you do burn yourself out and you do break your body, you break your mind as well, and you break relationships, you break everything around you because all you're focused on is trying to get up this hill with this bag and do it in one go. Well, no one said you have to do it in one shot. Why can't you take turns? Why can't you go back? Split the bag down into four and then do four journeys, and instead of just doing one big journey, we're trying to carry all four bags.

SPEAKER_01 40:53

What if you feel like you're running out of time?

SPEAKER_00 40:56

Well, this is the again, well, this is the again. No, hang on, because this is important, this is the biggest misconception here as well. You've got two people, right? One person's gonna try and carry all four of these bags up this hill, yeah, and one person's gonna carry one bag at a time. Now, the person carrying one bag at a time has got a bigger journey to to overcome, right? Longer distance to overcome, but the guy carrying four bags has got a much harder journey to overcome, yeah? Now, what's the chance that the guy carrying four bags is gonna burn out three quarters from the top and fail and give up?

SPEAKER_01 41:33

Oh, they're a lot higher, yeah. Right.

SPEAKER_00 41:35

So that's the important thing there is that if you overload yourself with too much in your bag, yeah, then you're gonna heighten the chances of you giving up. But if you split it down and you take it separately over four different journeys, you still get into the same goal, but you're just doing it in a more efficient way. And that way, you're not gonna burn out, you're not gonna collapse, you're not gonna fail, and you're not gonna give up because you can see the light at the end of the tunnel. It's difficult when you've got all four of those bags, you're sweating, you're struggling, you're on all four knees, and you're literally crawling to try to get to the top of this hill. But at some point, your brain's gonna start saying to you, You ain't gonna do this, mate, you're not gonna it's not gonna happen, and then that's when you give up.

SPEAKER_01 42:14

Yeah, well, you you know the problem is when you get three quarters of the way up that hill, and then you've got these four bags. If you drop one, you're worried about it rolling back down the hill and then going to the bottom of the mountain. So you don't you grasp onto it as tight as you can, making sure that you continue pulling all four of those bags up the hill. I suppose that's more you don't you don't want to let it go because I don't you don't want to see the pro the the progress that you've made lost, so it becomes extremely difficult to let go of. I still I think the I think the most important because you you you basically you you're too far in, you know, to uh to kind of let go because you've invested so much time, so much money. You say what you're gonna say.

SPEAKER_00 42:53

So I'm the guy who will go back and do separate trips. I won't I won't I used to be the guy who would carry it all at once. Yeah. And I've realised that that doesn't work for me, okay? So I'm now the guy who will leave three bags at the bottom and take one bag at a time. But I'm also the guy that once I finish taking all four of my bags, I'll go back and I'll go and help the guy who's struggling with all four bags on the one go, and I'll take a bag off of him and lighten his load and take that to the top. And that's really important in business, is it's being able to rely on people and have other people be able to take some of that load off of you. The analogy really is about what what you're carrying and whether it's sustainable, but it's also about who you're making that journey next to and how they can help you carry that load. That's right. Does that make sense? It does. Yeah, so maybe it's not that nothing's enough, maybe it's just that we've forgotten how to recognise it.

SPEAKER_01 43:49

Maybe so. Um, because end of the day, we're providing for our families, we're trying to grow stronger, we're trying to go to be at the full potential. Of what we can be. So it is definitely worth it. It just probably doesn't come with the same satisfaction as what we were used to when we were younger. Yeah. And I think that's where I'm struggling at the minute. And I'm looking to work on that so I can push forward. Me too. And I think everyone else as well. Exactly. So if you're still here, then uh yeah, definitely reach out to us because uh I'm sure you feel the same as well.

SPEAKER_00 44:24

So and as always, um, link to our last videos over here and uh link to subscribe to the channel is over here if you haven't already. Me and Matt have started up a support page uh which is sort of like buy me a coffee. Now it's absolutely no obligation whatsoever to anyone. You guys just watching this is is enough for us, um, but it will help us you know continue making these uh these episodes and these podcasts. So uh if you do have um the ability to um to donate anything towards us and support the podcast, then um the link will be down in the description. If not and you're still just enjoying this content, then that's good for us as well.