EP.4: What is a Returner? (Pickles and we all go mad.)

In this episode, Zoe and George are joined by Chloe to discuss what it actually means to be a ‘returner’ at Camp America — someone who just can’t stay away from camp life. This episode starts off quite structured and grown-up...

From the pull that brings you back summer after summer, to the deeper friendships, bigger responsibilities, and evolving perspective that comes with each return, Chloe shares how camp becomes more than just a one-time experience. It’s about familiarity, growth, and the unique feeling of stepping back into a place that somehow feels like home — even thousands of miles away. Also there's a moment involving a pickle that fully shuts everything down for around two minutes.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:04

This is the Summer Camp Rookie, the podcast that's not just for camp counsellors. I'm Debbie and I've been to camp twice.

SPEAKER_05 0:10

And I'm George and I've never been to camp. So if you're just sitting there and thinking I don't know what any of these people are talking about, then that's okay because neither do I.

SPEAKER_01 0:16

If you know loads, you'll still learn something.

SPEAKER_05 0:18

And if you know knapple like me, then you're set. So let's just do it.

SPEAKER_01 0:21

Let's go. It's Debbie's birthday!

SPEAKER_02 0:26

Not by the time we release this. No, not. But it is today. And I feel very honoured to be on the birthday podcast.

SPEAKER_05 0:32

We've chosen quite a I mean there's quite a fitting theme for your birthday. Why? I'm joking, it's not really. We're talking about returners at camp. Yeah, if you thought we were really professional up until now, I've just proven you wrong. Yeah, we're talking about returners. What returners are, why returners exist. And we've got with us some such returner.

SPEAKER_02 0:48

Yeah, I guess I'm a returner. So yeah, I'm Chloe, and I've been to camp. It's gonna be number six. That is that's number two. Which is crazy. Makes me feel very old.

SPEAKER_01 0:56

But yeah, I guess the episode we just wanted to talk about what the returner experience is like, why you want to return all of those big questions.

SPEAKER_05 1:03

Because like I mean, the returner we should define that a returner is someone who I mean it goes without saying that returns two camp multiple times, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:09

Because a lot of people do go the one time, and for whatever reason they don't return. Maybe they've just like only wanted the one summer, or you know, they've got university commitments or whatever. But so many people in our community go back to camp again and again and again and again. I mean, I did two years, and the only reason I stopped was because COVID hit and never that old. Um COVID hit and I couldn't go back and then it started. Um yeah, my last sum was 2019.

SPEAKER_02 1:34

That was my first summer. I went to camp pre-COVID.

SPEAKER_01 1:37

Yeah, and then you took the break and went back again.

SPEAKER_02 1:39

I did.

SPEAKER_01 1:39

Three years ago. See, that tells you how much someone loves camp because they took a massive break and then it still went back. I know. I did a master's so I could go back.

SPEAKER_05 1:46

You did a whole master's. Yeah. So I feel like it's sort of fairly decent place to start when talking about the concept of a returner and what a returner is, is a question that I'm gonna pose to you now, Chloe. Okay. If you're ready.

SPEAKER_02 1:57

I'm really ready. Okay.

SPEAKER_05 1:58

She's wearing a blazer, she's ready so.

SPEAKER_01 2:01

Can I pause this for a second? A couple of things. One, I find Chloe hilarious.

SPEAKER_05 2:06

This will become clear as the podcast is.

SPEAKER_01 2:08

Yeah, ignore am I laughing. The second thing is that when Chloe and I were on Teens talking about um her doing this episode, I am so excited. Yay! I am scared, I am frightened, I am nervous.

SPEAKER_05 2:19

Perfect. That's perfect. It's exactly the type of emotion we want for people running in and more.

SPEAKER_02 2:24

How do you feel now? Well, what's my stress level? You make me feel so on edge all the time. No, I'm just kidding, I'm kidding, I'm kidding. Sorry, do you want to ask you?

SPEAKER_05 2:32

Sorry, yeah, I thought we were doing the podcast, but that's okay. Why do you go back to camp? What's the pull?

SPEAKER_02 2:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 2:38

So What are you doing?

SPEAKER_02 2:40

What am I doing? Um, so yeah, obviously, I first went in 2019, and I honestly thought it was gonna be like a one-time thing. I was like, okay, like people say it's good, but like how good can it be? I was like, just want to do something with my summer, push myself out of my comfort zone and do something new. And then yeah, I came back from that summer a completely different person, which sounds really cringe, but I went in and I was like very shy, didn't have a lot of confidence. I never saw myself as someone that was like travel or have do anything like that, but after that I came back from camp, I was like, you know what? I can do like hard things and I can be away from home. And obviously, then I had the three-year gap because of COVID. And I literally remember 2020 getting the email from my camp director being like, yeah, summer's not happening, and I was so upset. And I was like, Am I ever gonna be able to go back? Um, and then yeah, went back in 2022, and it was just really crazy because even though it had been a three-year gap, I got back to camp and it felt like I had never left.

SPEAKER_05 3:37

You just didn't feel it.

SPEAKER_01 3:38

You've actually given me like full body chills now.

SPEAKER_05 3:40

That was Jesus fucking Christ, we thought we should be laughing from the podcast. She's actually crying. Right, what happens is that Chloe comes in at a blazer and all of a sudden Zoe just gets thrown into a whirlwind of emotion.

SPEAKER_01 3:50

What do you think it is about going back to camp that transforms you so much? Like what I mean, I guess you said it was in your first year, but I'm sure that's developed over time as well. What do you think it is that's that's giving you that transformation?

SPEAKER_02 4:02

I think every summer honestly is so different, and you learn so many skills, and it really pushes you outside your comfort zone. I mean, obviously, my first summer was a completely new experience, and you're just kind of learning the whole way, like being away from home. I'd never been away from home for more than two weeks, and I just went off for like three months. So that like naturally transforms you as a person. But I feel like every summer, every time I go back, I gain something that I didn't have before. And I think it's because you're always put into new situations and you're meeting new people and you're dealing with like different kids, and also the support system you have around you is something that you don't really get in other jobs. I find I think because you're living with these people 24-7. Um so yeah, I would genuinely say like every summer I go into it a different person than the previous summer, but I also come out of it a different person as well. I think that's part of it, but also I just generally love working with the kids and going back every summer and seeing them develop. It's just like the thought of not going back and not seeing them is just like really sad.

SPEAKER_01 5:01

It's such a term that we like we all say my kids. Yeah. Like everyone says, I'm watching my kids grow up, I'm going back to my campus. Like it's they become like a part of you because you've given so much to them and they've given so much to you that it's like it's hard to understand until you're really in it, but you can have such a connection to these kids, and to go back year on year is so special to see them just grow. Exactly.

SPEAKER_05 5:24

Well, I mean, we had Connell on here like in the first episode, and he was talking about like his experience of like seeing the kids in his first summer, yeah, and then like you know, like those kids however you know, long after that, and they were like starting college and they were like becoming like young men, and it's just weird because I I imagine there's like like that real sense of like because obviously like you know, like you're caring for them every day, but so then like when you see them grow up, it must be emotional, man.

SPEAKER_02 5:48

It really is. I mean, like this summer one of the counsellors was a girl who was in my first ever cabin, and she was 18 years old, and I was like, wow, I feel so old. I was like, that is just crazy. Like she was literally in my first ever cabin, and then I was working alongside her, and I was like, wow, and she was like telling me how she really like looked up to me and she was like, Oh, I'm gonna take what I learned from you as my counsellor and try and like embody that when I'm a counsellor, and I was like, that's just really nice to see in here. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 6:15

So thinking about it as like your first summer, even though you've done it many, many a year now. Yeah, how would you compare like your first summer to your second summer? Do you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 6:24

Oh well, you were asked that was like like you were gonna come out with something. Oh, and that you were like my first summer? To your second summer. Second summer. Like as if we didn't know what the next summer was.

SPEAKER_05 6:34

I just read out what's on the f pointless thing. I'm just playing ball. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 6:39

Do you want to do that again? No, no, I think it's great. I think what was really nice about my second summer is your first summer, you really are just kind of working things out as they go along. You're like testing the water. You don't know what's happening, like every week's different, and you're like, what's gonna happen next? Because camp's so busy, and you can't really take a step back, you're really just kind of working it out as you go, and just like kind of winging it, honestly. Fake it till you make it. That was my entire first summer. And also something I liked in my second summer a lot was definitely like mentoring the new staff and helping them out, and especially new international staff as well, kind of being that person they can come to and giving them advice. How did you?

SPEAKER_05 7:14

I mean, because obviously, you know, you're a big uh uh returner capital R now. How did you feel about returners in your first summer? Like, were they these sort of like omniscient like ivory tower? Were they scary? Were they big and scary?

SPEAKER_02 7:28

I would say scary is the right word, but I definitely remember in the first few days of like staff training. Obviously, naturally they gravitate towards each other because they're like, I've not seen you in so long, and they're catching up. And I was like, Oh, I was like, someone speak to me, please. Obviously, that was like other first times, and I kind of like gravitated towards them. But then literally, like after three days of staff training, like everyone mingled and mixed together.

SPEAKER_01 7:50

As a second year, uh huh. How do you then a second year and and third, fourth, fifth, sixth? Yeah, how do you now see first years? Like, what's the view looking not down, but looking at it?

SPEAKER_05 8:03

Looking down at the small people.

SPEAKER_01 8:04

But it's them in their first year, what's it like to be a returner and see their experience?

SPEAKER_02 8:09

I honestly just get so excited when we get new staff at my camp. I think new staff bring in a new energy and they bring in new ideas, and it's always good, I think. My director always says this as well, to have a good balance of returners and new staff.

SPEAKER_05 8:22

It's cool like having people seeing it all for the first time as well, right? Especially in like your fourth summer when you're a little bit like Blaise About it or you're a little bit like you know, it's trees, who cares?

SPEAKER_01 8:30

Like having someone come in is like then you get those people that come in and they're like, This is like a movie. Yeah, this is the oh my god, this is what I've dreamed of of my entire life. And you're like, yeah, this is normal life.

SPEAKER_05 8:39

You kick back, you light a pipe, and you go, Let me tell you.

SPEAKER_02 8:42

Let me tell you what it was like in my first journey. My second summer, um, one of my best friends now, Rosie, who will probably be watching this. I love you, Rosie. She went to camp because her friend was also at camp who'd been there for like five summers. And one of the first things we did in staff training was like they did a campfire with like all the songs and the skits and stuff, and she saw her friend, she saw her friend on stage in like this crazy costume doing like a camp skit, and she was just like, Who is this? And I was just sat there like.

SPEAKER_05 9:12

I don't understand, I don't understand what a camp skit is.

SPEAKER_02 9:14

It's a skit.

SPEAKER_05 9:16

Oh sorry, yeah, just looked at me like finging idiots. Imagine you're just wearing like no, no, I got that part myself, but my question still stands, what is it?

SPEAKER_02 9:24

He's like, okay, well, first of all, I don't know if it's the same with all counts, but we wear costumes. He's in a pickle costume. And then like a pickle costume with like a cowboy hat on. Do you not know what a skit is?

SPEAKER_05 9:37

I know what a I know what a fing skit is, but I don't like questioning.

SPEAKER_01 9:46

You keep asking.

SPEAKER_05 9:46

No, because what's a camp skit? You're doing a skit at a cap because it's a normal thing. Is it like a Joe or doesn't like a bottom like that?

SPEAKER_02 9:52

I feel like you can't explain what a skit is because you would only do it at a camp. Tell them what a skit is, he knows what it is.

SPEAKER_05 9:57

No, no, I know I know what the con I know what the word skit means, but I don't understand the context of camp skit.

SPEAKER_00 10:02

So if you're at camp then a skit that just happens, what I again, my good sorry, I understand that it's a skit that happens at camp.

SPEAKER_05 10:09

That was given away by the phrase camp skit. The words being together, stay with me, those words being together made me realise that it was a skit that happens at camp. My question is, what does that involve? What does that look like? And I've asked that question, and all you've said to me, Chloe, is that there's a diet of pickle costume. So that's what I'm gonna. It's a camp, there's a skit, and there's a pickle, but I don't understand how that evolved.

SPEAKER_02 10:30

I don't even know how to explain it.

SPEAKER_05 10:32

Do you know what? Don't bother. And it's your birthday.

SPEAKER_01 10:39

So in our office, Chloe is known by many a name. Um and it's always in a um, what's it called when you do when two letters? Alliteration. That's the one.

SPEAKER_05 10:48

It's a very big gun.

SPEAKER_01 10:49

Um, when we when we go out for a drink, it might be cocktail clo. Cocktail cloak when um What's your favourite clo?

SPEAKER_05 10:56

Because I because I've seen I've seen cocktail cloth, I've seen classy clo.

SPEAKER_01 11:00

Yeah. What else is there? What's the other clothes crazy cloud?

SPEAKER_05 11:02

Crazy clone, crazy cloth only pops up head out once in a generation.

SPEAKER_02 11:06

Cuddly cloak. No, I've never seen cuddly clothes. So we I don't know when you Cuddly Clow. I've never seen Cuddly Clown. If you knew me, you know I hate physical touch. Um cuddly club. It started with um comedy cloak. Because we went we went to comedy club. Uh yeah, and I was like, oh yeah, I'm gonna be on stage doing comedy.

SPEAKER_05 11:24

My favourite actually, no, I've got an answer. My favourite clo is when we all because sometimes we on occasion in the Camperocker office we go on um uh on nights out on excursions, if you will. We socialise. We socialise, and there was one that happened at Christmas, which many a fun thing happened, um, which we probably shouldn't get into. Where is this going? I don't know, but I'm talking about no, that was Christmas clo. Christmas Chloe happened at the start of the night, but then Christmas Chloe sort of mutated, and then it ended up at the end of the night. Do you remember when it was walking back? Yeah. And you became chicken clo. Well, no, because we were like walking, and then suddenly Chloe sort of I saw your eyes sort of glaze over, and you just kind of your voice went down several octaves, and you just we were all like oxygen shit or someone and you just went, Dave's hot chicken. And suddenly that was like the only thing you knew how to say. Like it was that every like three minutes we'd be talking about something you'd just hear, like you like walking by. You were that little bit of mind, you just heard Dave's hot chicken. Because with the zenith of professionalism, the camera, we just decided to stop using it, and so we're using this one now for the quick fire question segment. Chloe, do you understand the concept of this quick fire segment?

SPEAKER_01 12:29

Okay. It's meant to be quick. It's meant to be quick. You have just got to answer, answer. I'm gonna panic. Okay. Don't panic. Are you ready?

SPEAKER_05 12:36

Are you?

SPEAKER_01 12:38

What's my strength level? 81. Alright. Lake or pool. Cool. French coaster or American pancakes. Pancakes. Top bunk or bottom bunk. Cabin or tent. Cabin. Backpack or suitcase. Grilled cheese or chicken tenders. Chicken tenders. High call eye. Arts and craft or sports, journal camera. Camp uniform or no uniform, no uniform. Craft with it. Walmart or target, the cam channel camp song, a camera. Colour war or camalytic, colour war. General counselor activity specialist general counselor. Paul training or jet skiing. Jet skiing. Chimp Sahoi. Ooh, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 13:16

Jetsking. That talks enough then.

SPEAKER_02 13:19

I've never jet skied in my life.

SPEAKER_05 13:22

It's the fact that she was like really nonchalant.

SPEAKER_02 13:25

Oh, jet skiing.

SPEAKER_05 13:26

Let's do that.

SPEAKER_00 13:29

Okay. Um, moving on.

SPEAKER_01 13:31

Chimp Savoy or Arios. Ooh.

unknown 13:35

Ooh.

SPEAKER_05 13:37

Ooh. Making a mockery of the quick fire section.

SPEAKER_02 13:40

It was going really, really wrong. Oh, but I said the wrong answer to the first one.

SPEAKER_05 13:43

No, you didn't. There's no such thing as a wrong answer.

SPEAKER_02 13:44

What did you say? I said pool. I hate the pool. Uh-oh.

SPEAKER_01 13:50

I hate the pool. I hate the pool.

SPEAKER_05 13:52

I'd rather go on my chest.

SPEAKER_01 13:53

American football or soccer? Soccer. Kool-Aid or Gatorade. Gatorade. Done.

SPEAKER_05 13:58

Very good. Beautiful stuff. Fascinating.

SPEAKER_01 14:02

So whilst we're now in our cute little cozy spot. Cozy clone. Cozy clone. Um one thing to touch on, or a couple of things to touch on quickly is you want to marry.

SPEAKER_00 14:19

I can see how serious you look.

SPEAKER_04 14:22

We're ready to go.

SPEAKER_00 14:28

You're in your power stands, like ready to run.

SPEAKER_04 14:30

We're in closed corner.

SPEAKER_01 14:33

A couple of things to touch on. The first one is um how do you submit a returner application?

unknown 14:44

Happy birthday!

SPEAKER_05 14:50

We were talking about we were talking about you can bust yourself up on. Anyway, so make a return application. I know I was still thinking about Clorianches. We'll be back after this short intermission.

SPEAKER_01 15:08

We're gonna talk about serious things now, George.

SPEAKER_05 15:10

Okay, I'm ready.

SPEAKER_01 15:11

We've had our fun. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 15:13

We've all had a good laugh.

SPEAKER_01 15:14

We have. You're probably gonna cut this in a different order anyway.

SPEAKER_05 15:16

Absolutely not.

SPEAKER_01 15:17

Return our applications and how you actually submit your application to go back to CAV again. Yeah. Okay. What do you do? So you're pretty experienced in it. I'm pretty experienced.

SPEAKER_02 15:26

So you just like open your up your camp for your application. Open it up your camera. What do you do? Let me remind myself.

SPEAKER_05 15:32

So you just open it up.

SPEAKER_02 15:34

That's what you do. Done.

SPEAKER_05 15:40

How's your stress level?

SPEAKER_00 15:42

Pretty high. Oh, it's actually quite low. Mine's not. Um anyway.

SPEAKER_05 15:54

Raw waiting. Raw waiting. There are people, there are people sat there wondering, begging to know.

SPEAKER_01 16:00

How do you submit? Okay, so how do you submit a returner application? How do you let Camp know that you are coming back? And then how do you let Camp America know you're coming back? And how do the two marry up?

SPEAKER_02 16:09

So I feel like usually for returners, how it works, is you're usually in contact with your camp. Yes. So you arrange your like position and do you, if you need to re-interview again or whatever, get in contact.

SPEAKER_01 16:19

I know on my camp, they would send you an email around October time and say, Would you like to come back next year? Here's your invitation to come back. We think you'd be good in this role or whatever. And usually at the end of the summer, like they say, like, oh, we'll be taking applications at this time. And sometimes you have conversations in the summer being like, I'd love me to come back next year. Sometimes you just go, but sometimes it's more personal conversations, I guess, that you have with that people account.

SPEAKER_02 16:40

Once you have your contract agreed to account, you just create your Captain America application again for the summer, and then you have to pay your £55 again. I think that's a lot. I think that's a lot this year, people just don't pay that £55, and then your application doesn't come through to it and then you can't actually prefer the placement.

SPEAKER_01 16:56

Yeah, because I guess in your first year, the £55 is an interview deposit amount. But in your second year, it's like your placement application, basically. When you create your application, correct if I'm wrong, but when you create your application, it asks you at the beginning are you a first year, are you a second year, are you a second year returning to a new account? Like it gives you all of the options and you just have to make sure that you're a return of going to the same account.

SPEAKER_02 17:17

Select the right one. And then we send your application to CAMP, they get replaced, and they confirm the placement on their side, we confirm it on our side. Yeah, and then yeah, we can do that. And then everyone's happy.

SPEAKER_01 17:27

Everyone's happy in your back account. But basically, the answer is you need to have a conversation with Camp, confirm that they're offering your position, and then you need to submit your CAP fair application, and then we'll marry the two together. There you go.

SPEAKER_05 17:37

We took the scenic crew, but we got there anyway. There's a real different energy in this setup, but I really enjoyed. The dynamic has changed completely. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:48

And you're just sat there in silence.

SPEAKER_05 17:51

I mean it's just you're talking about grownup things. Thanks so much for coming on.

SPEAKER_01 17:56

Wait, what's your final name? Um conclusion club. Thanks, conclusion club. Big clubs.

SPEAKER_05 18:08

That was the weirdest ending to one of these that we've done.