Autrelle Holland - All Art, No Snacks

The DA kid that got a D, $20 and premiered at Cummer (spoiler alert: it wasn't Autrelle).

Art levels - Master Cho vs Timmy 🥋 Belt-divisions among artists. 

Origin story - Cleveland to Riverside, found art to steer clear of bullies at John Gorrie Middle.  Continued at DA. 

Martial Arts - Pak’s Karate to Aikido to Wing Chun (an infamous dojo in Riverside led by Sifu Arnett). 

Done with Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle work, time to think about the Splinter work. “It’s all art to me.” DJing, martial arts, making music, and visual art. It’s not a hobby. It’s central to identity and real work. "Seeking peace and refinement." 

“Can I join your dojo?” The return to visual art, private craft and connecting with people. Jim Draper’s influence (put the poop in a delicious cake). 

Art League Jax in Murray Hill, drawing and portrait classes, the value of being around artists. “In a different era they’d break your hand to take your kung fu from you.” Drawing is thinking. 

“I love what you do, ever thought of taking an art class?” DA in the 90s. Different treatment for different students. Do more than work and sleep and party to feel good about yourself. Activities put you around people. 

What Autrelle misses about jax - every weeknight there was something to do. Old wave night, art bar dance night, art show Thursdays, everyone showed up to the weekly thing. Old 5 points. Pop culture vs counter-culture.

What we’re missing that’s happening now? - It’s hard to not drink in Jax. You age out of the scene, we need places people can gather without getting shit-hammered. Autrelle dwells at Casbah in Avondale where he can smoke a hookah and work on art. 

Autrelle’s house art show “Four”. People wanted snacks. Mactruque complained. How much art is enough? Next show: no art, just snacks. You break it with your Cheetoh’s fingers, you buy it. 

Read the companion article at Floridation.substack.com for more.

Season 2 of Floridation discusses art and culture in Northeast Florida with a different artist or culture maker each episode.

Young Buck Coffee locally roasts coffee fresh every week and delivers it to your door. Order today at youngbuckcoffee.com 

For more check out The Floridation Papers at Floridation.substack.com. Thanks for putting a little a Florida in you. Y'all come back now, hear?

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:11

We had Mark George on last uh and uh that one that was a long one. And it was ready to keep going too, man. He was here for like what 90 minutes or something.

SPEAKER_00 0:22

Yeah, I think he wanted to party afterwards too.

SPEAKER_01 0:24

Mark George is awesome. Yeah. Um and these mics are as you know about so these are shady. So if you can remember, you can either go handle or you gotta keep close though.

SPEAKER_00 0:33

Yeah, it only like here's if you're in like big directional range.

SPEAKER_01 0:37

Do you want to do uh checks with the sure yeah, y'all can talk normal if you want? I'll just look at these.

SPEAKER_00 0:42

Yeah, totally.

SPEAKER_01 0:45

That's perfect. Yeah, you you have a good voice for it projects well. Cool. I mumble. I'm a bad mumbler. And he also, him and Mark would be like in the conversation, oh that's interesting. And this thing is so loud, it's like, you know, it's sound victory. But you did uh do you want to start officially? Just want to chit-chat for a little bit still?

SPEAKER_00 1:06

Uh well, I mean, let's let's start with just thank you, Anchal Holland, for joining us today on the podcast.

SPEAKER_03 1:12

Hey,

Early impressions of art in Jacksonville - DA art teacher exhibition at Cummer

SPEAKER_03 1:12

well, sorry, but I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_00 1:14

That's what we'd be uh Yeah, we're really interested in um in your journey right now. I've always known you as a creative person, and now you're doing some visual art stuff that um that feels like it's a we haven't talked to anyone that's kind of like new on that road. And I think that's a really interesting perspective, and I'm excited to talk about.

SPEAKER_03 1:36

Yeah, I'm happy to speak about it.

SPEAKER_00 1:39

Um I guess how about I'll start with an icebreaker?

SPEAKER_03 1:44

Yeah, I'll just do that.

SPEAKER_00 1:48

Um, so this is just kind of like a prompt that I wrote. And we can take it anywhere we want, and we'll go around the room. You have to go first. I'll go first, you go second. Oh, I can go second. Okay, you go second. But basically, it's this the first time you remember being surprised by art in Jacksonville. Oh wow. Where was it and what? Okay. Do you have one off rep or go yeah, Easter?

SPEAKER_03 2:17

Um so I guess this is either my senior year in high school at DA. And I was in my graphics class as Jack Broughton, Mr. Broughton, and he was part of an exhibition where the teachers were gonna have an art show at the cover. Okay. And so he taught printmaking, he taught photography, uh, he taught uh part of the like collection processes. It was about his thing. Yeah, dark photography, that was really cool.

SPEAKER_00 2:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:58

And he wouldn't tell us what he was gonna do for the show. Yeah, right? He just wouldn't tell you. And there were a few things happening at that time in the classroom. One, he was collecting egg creeps, like the gray, like old 18 or whatever. Oh yeah. He was collecting them and styrofoaming.

SPEAKER_00 3:21

Styrofoam or paper?

SPEAKER_03 3:23

The paper ones, okay, right? Like hundreds of them. Yeah, he was collecting them and gluing them together, and he wasn't telling what he was making, he all he said was functional, and that was it. And then there was the class, right? Yeah, I'll never forget because I won't say the kid's name. I know his name, and I won't forget. Um, we were given an assignment, right? And this particular student, at this particular time for this assignment, his submission was pretty lackluster, right? Kidnaod or whatever, blah, blah, blah. And I think Jack gave him like a D on or some shit like that. And then Jack offered him $20 for it. Right. Right. He's like, this is the worst field ever. You're like, okay. Best offer.

Autrelle's recent exhibitions in Murray Hill and DJ performances

SPEAKER_03 4:24

So they had the show. We get to go as part of the field trip. This fool made a freaking um. He made an installation that was life size of a living room. Okay. And all the art on the walls was like part of like the art he bought from the students. You know what I'm saying? And then with the egg crates, he made a living room furniture. It was all like glass top, like tables and chairs and couches and shit. Oh, wow. It's cool. Yeah. You know what I mean? But like all the art was like some of his art that he made and like other art. I'm like, that's the peace. Yeah, I just thought that was it was different. It was cool. You know, it was just knowing that I don't know if it would have been in that corner without knowing he was buying our art. That's it for his art.

SPEAKER_00 5:18

But it was still, to me, I was just like. That kid got to show at the commerce.

unknown 5:23

Right.

SPEAKER_03 5:25

Exactly. Exactly. He got a D.

SPEAKER_00 5:29

More Bucks. And it's first selling at the commerce.

SPEAKER_01 5:32

Exactly. That's what they were saying. Yeah, but uh, that just reminded me because John gave me this question too. I'll go ahead and skip to it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's not as exciting. So you've been involved in art and graphics stuff for a while, then. Is this a new thing for you?

SPEAKER_03 5:45

It's a return.

SPEAKER_01 5:47

Okay. That's what I was wondering. Yeah. Um, we'll get into that more later, but I guess I had a friend that was going to then FSCJ, you know, and uh she, I don't know what sort of class she was in, but she just made like a piece of furniture that was like a bench, basically, but it was kind of wavy, and she painted with couch for it. She asked me what the name meant, and I said couch with a W. But anyhow, it's not about me, but I'm just never going to a studio, um, not studio, but like, I guess it was they had an art show at FSCJ South Campus, which is where I grew up. Yeah. And there was like, you know, there's like some really good photorealistic pencil drawings and stuff. And it's just weird because, you know, I like I said, I grew up like on the parking lot of that place. I would ride my bikes uh through the campus on the student show or something. A student show, and it was just in this little, I don't know what this room was for. It almost looked um like it might have been admissions or something every other day that we spent. So it was yeah, and they're just like, you know, they had some you know, church uh snacks and drinks like that. And I was like, that's so weird, like just you know, half mile from my house. I'll never have known if she had gone there. I was like 18 or 19 myself at the time, but it yeah, yeah, it was just surprising. They were like, you know, although especially I shouldn't have known at a at a college there's gonna be stuff like that.

SPEAKER_00 6:57

But uh were they selling it? Was there like price testing?

SPEAKER_01 6:59

It was I think it was a like a some sort of uh what do you call it? Staff voting of who wine first place with all the new different things and stuff like that. Yeah, exactly. And F S C G South uh J South. So yeah, that I think that's probably what the weirdest place, or you know, I was surprised to see art, you know.

SPEAKER_00 7:18

Yeah. Mine uh feels less interesting on the yellow tall get on.

SPEAKER_01 7:27

That was great, man.

SPEAKER_00 7:29

Uh no, my mom used to, I I always doodled and I was a drawer as a kid, and I always kind of thought I was gonna be an artist or maybe a cartoonist. I don't know that I would have ever said an artist. But um so every summer my mom would put me in a different like art camp. Oh, cool. Um she wanted me to be an artist, and uh, she just wanted me to do anything great. Um and uh she would also settle for Olympic swimmer, but that wasn't painted. Um so uh that was always at the Jabsmill Art Museum when it was over on Art Museum Drive before it was Mocha and all that. Um and uh, you know, I would always kind of paint abstract stuff, but I didn't know shit about it. Like really like the yeah, you know, I I thought Picasso was cool, I thought Basquiat was cool, and so I liked like broadlined kind of primitive uh structural drawings that uh were minimalist. And I thought that was something that I could do well because it looked easy. Um, and then uh we were right at the end of doing, and I thought I was just like the shit, you know what I mean? And all these other kids are trying to make the flowers look like flowers, and I'm like, I'm so above y'all. And so uh I was real cocky about things, and uh it was right at the end of one of the camps, and like part of the museum was shut down because there was an exhibition that they were building in there, and like we were kind of being bad teenagers and sneaking around and checking this out, and it was just it looked like somebody uh some hoarder had just been moved out of their apartment, and there were just like TVs and wires and VCRs and all of these things everywhere in this space. And I was like, Oh, this isn't this is obviously not an art exhibition. This is like somebody got kicked out of their apartment or something, and um, and then we my mom brought me back. I mentioned that I was interested in the show that was coming, and mom brought me back to the show, and it was the artist Nam Jun Peik, who I only know from this initial encounter with him, but it was all of these like pieces of TVs they were on and particularly staged in particular ways, video racks and like these eternal loops with like horizontal hold problems. It was like interesting, an electronic visual spectacle, you know. And this was, I mean, this was late 80s, I guess. And I had never seen anything like this, and for it to be in a museum space was like mind-blowing to me. I had never heard of assemblage art or found object stuff, and so the idea that somebody would take all the time to arrange all these things to make fairly non-coherent images of these several different installations that were just kind of like different arrangements of the same materials. And he was in a museum show, and it showed that he like we were this probably the smallest city he went to on that tour. You know what I mean? Like most cities our size probably couldn't afford that exhibition. He probably did something

Like in martial arts, there should be belt divisions in art. "It has levels"

SPEAKER_00 10:26

special to do it here, but like wow, um, that like changed my mind about what uh art was or could be entirely.

SPEAKER_01 10:35

And um, I don't know, it changed my trajectory as far as like my work, but my understanding of the power of context for any piece, whether it be performance or like uh interruptive um improv, any of that, like context is like so critical to so the image for your show, because I was trying to find some of your stuff online, the image for the show that you just had at Silver Cow, it had sort of a like a TV image that was kind of like waver. Was that yours or the person that was showing there? Or do you do anything with that?

SPEAKER_03 11:09

So that's all me. Whenever you see that sort of stuff, when I got back into my printmaking, I got into a little bit of image manipulation. Nothing super hardcore that anyone else couldn't do with any sort of software. Right. But I wanted to kind of put that in there. You know, I wanted to do as much um what's the word I was using?

SPEAKER_00 11:40

We did it like an analog form?

SPEAKER_03 11:42

You know what? I like to just sort of reiterate and like put the image through phases, you know what I mean? Um so hopefully by the time I decide, okay, I'm gonna stop here and frame it. It's it's a degree away from where it started.

SPEAKER_01 11:59

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 12:00

Yeah. So that becomes a little bit of the for me the process, you know?

SPEAKER_00 12:06

Is it only that you have a show to frame it for that makes it stop at that point? Would it continue to iterate? Or do you kind of know when you're like I've done it?

SPEAKER_03 12:14

It's not, it's never so much for a show. It's just a matter of my own second. Okay, like it depends on the process, basically. There's some of it. Um, you know, once you know exactly what process you're gonna use, you're like, this is gonna turn out pretty great. This isn't gonna I thought I was gonna try out great. I'm gonna try to do a different process. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:39

Yeah, yeah. I know you DJ. Do you still DJ? Still DJing. Now you don't ever do anything like that. Not exactly what that guy was talking about. Do you ever do anything with video and stuff like that?

SPEAKER_03 12:50

Yeah, I'd like to. Um last it was actually just last year I finished uh DJing. Um music, right? Yeah. Uh I would love to integrate that with something where the music isn't the main part.

SPEAKER_00 13:10

The aim the soundtrack to something.

SPEAKER_03 13:12

Something else, you know. I I think that it's more interesting if we can hit three or four to five sentences that I want to know like your art show and the music's great, and there's some good food and sense of burning and maybe you'd yield a class or something. I don't know, yeah. But um, you know, it's if I say something mean. Um true. I'm not done DJing at Jacksonville, right? But I've also had a pretty good run so far in Jacksonville, and by that, you know, not the most successful, whatever, blah blah blah, but I've had the most fun. You know what I mean? And it's and it's taking me places like just music and DJing in general. And a lot of the DJing in Jacksonville is venue-based, and event based like on Saturday, we're doing this from here to here, or on Wednesday, uh, so and so we're doing this and that. And I've done so much of that. You know what I mean? Yeah, I've done so much of that, and uh, I may do so much more, who knows? But uh I just want to do something different. I want to do like some sort of pop-up or bring it where it's usually not, yeah. You know what I mean? Like everything's so low these days with like power supplies and all that stuff. That's true. I kind of want to just maybe on a buskin level, I mean, yeah, yeah. And still like combine that with like some barbers and food or something. Yeah, I don't know. But um, I mean, to me, it's just another way to work on getting five senses, you know. Music works with my ears going, gets my heart going. Art, you know, eyes are working, my brain's working, art's working.

SPEAKER_01 15:05

Here's a dumb question by me. Uh they don't do any uh first Wednesday art block done that stuff. Yeah, they still do. Oh, they do. Have you ever messed around with that with DJing or anything? It would be I've I've never done it.

SPEAKER_03 15:24

One day to the question, no. Never done it. Um it'll be interesting because I don't necessarily want to kingdom. Right. You don't want to take requests.

Origin story - From Cleveland to Riverside to DASOTA to college to martial arts

SPEAKER_03 15:40

No, I'm definitely not. I'm definitely not taking requests. You're never doing weddings, right? I love weddings. Oh, really? I do your wedding. I love weddings. That's where I got a lot of my you know reputation from was doing weddings for years. I love weddings, but it's they're just different occasions. Like weddings are not about me. Right? You know what I mean? It's about the the day and the event and the couple. Yeah, I mean, that's that's that's that's that's what's different. You know, that's what's honor. You know, uh, then some gigs are about that. Where you we are taking requests and we are since you're here, you come to the crowd, whatever. Um, I'm looking for opportunities to do more timeless stuff, I guess. We're not gonna be locked into like a certain audience or demographic. You know what I mean? And that's difficult to do with music because everything has its time. Everything has its place and its cycle and all that. And I accept my cycle. I feel like when it was my time, I was doing my thing. You know what I mean? And I feel like during this time I'm still doing my thing where my line is at. Yeah, it's it's still healthy to like make just set back or allow what's new to be there, you know. Yeah. Do I like a lot of what's new out there? I don't know. I'm like anybody else. Like a lot of it is it's not up to my usual standards. Right. But it's also a different time, different, you know, it's it's different now.

SPEAKER_00 17:56

Yeah. I think that's a good question. Like, what is the what is the what is the marker for like this is art, and that's just bullshit.

SPEAKER_03 18:06

Great fucking question.

SPEAKER_00 18:07

I'm not gonna talk about that.

SPEAKER_03 18:10

Um I think that there's levels, right? First level I would I would allow almost anyone is participation.

SPEAKER_00 18:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 18:20

Just because not everyone shares, yeah. Or is able to share. You know what I mean? Like, and then that way you're doing something where art is for everybody. And then maybe you're not gonna share your journal, maybe for whatever reason the tattoo for makes your art. Yeah, yeah, whatever, blah, blah, blah. But it's an internal production. But you're doing it, and that's you, and cool, you know, and I'll give I'll give most people that.

SPEAKER_04 18:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 18:46

And then there's um, I think everyone that's out there does enjoy making their art and that feeling. Yeah, right. And that's something I can't take from anybody. Like, oh, what do you think? Great, regardless of what it was or how much effort it took or your skill level or the media, whatever, you're out there doing something good. Yeah, they might be great. Yeah, express yourself. Right, express yourself, great. You got hurt in the body, you know, bothering me, and yeah, you put it on the canvas, or you're doing something awesome. And then after that, sure, you get into like more nuanced things about um, and this is where analogy will come in. This will be helpful. Like, you just can't put certain things on the same category, you know what I mean? Like, if you have uh on the karate tournament, right? Yeah, you can't have what the adults are doing and the level that they're doing as the same level as like the six-year-old, you know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_00 19:50

Right, right. It's all karate, right?

SPEAKER_03 19:52

Right, we're all here in the similar umbrella, but yeah, I don't want Master Cho to fight Tim. I don't think I didn't pay to see that. You know what I'm saying? It's not and it's not fair to Tim. It doesn't really showcase what he what Master Cho can do or so. I think that there should be levels. I think people should just know that I think it's hard by knowing where the labels are. You know, if you're if you're a student, you know, and and like student on a college level, for example, but maybe you're self-taught and you're not trying to take classes, you're just trying to have to rule your right and you're doing that, yeah. Hell yeah, do it. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. Uh or if you're you know studied or you're like an atelier type type of level, or there's no ateliers in Jacksonville, but maybe you're seeking that level of education or expression, yeah, great. You know what I mean? Like that's awesome. Like if you're a draper, yeah. You know what I mean? Like there's levels to that. Yeah, yeah. You know, and that's all there is to it. And I think what confuses the levels um goes back to um where you get to see these shows, right? Um there was one show. I'm gonna forget the artist's name for now. Uh-huh. Okay. It's just not, it's just not gonna come to me. All right. Um, but I swear it cracked me up like the venue, then Draper's one of the favorite artists, so he went up more wrong. Um, he had a show again, right? His oil painting, his nose are something fantastic, you know. The venue was smaller, so it wasn't like a stat. So like he would show you, yeah, but it was still wonderful, you know. And then it may have been the very next show or show after whatever the same venue. Um guy came out with an artist. Um but the present the work was uh like these broken, not action figures, they're more the literally Barbie dolls. And they were just kind of like I don't want to say reassembled, more just like repaired, like you still want a kid to play with them with masking tape, and just kind of like there, and Arsenal's kind of saying it's not something. Uh yeah. Yeah, yeah. And my only problem with that is people are gonna get confused, right? They're gonna be like, whoa, that person had to show up the same place that they ran a show. So they must be on the same level, and maybe I'm just not getting it. I was kind of like, no man, there's that's there's levels of that. You know what I mean? Like it's it's it's kind of like food, right? Like you go to a certain type of restaurant and there's a level of quality you expect right? And then you go to like a different restaurant and it's not an issue of quality, you just know it's not gonna be the same output. Like you still expect to issue like I mean if you go to um you go to like linapole, right? That's not gonna suck. Never that's gonna be good, yeah. And we can expect that, right? Then if you go to one of these like um the places are taco places, you know what I'm talking about, where you divide the they take what's gonna be still the influence in you, right? And they make the guacamole at your table side, fresh, right? Every taco is seven dollars a piece, and right just these exotic like froglet tacos and shit like that. Yeah, but you have a different expectation. You're like, okay, this better be a whole ass experience. Yeah, right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They're charging so much. And I feel like the you know, the art is like that too, you know. I mean, I feel like Cork um brings a high level, you know what I mean? Like it's not it's not rookie season. Yeah, yeah, you know, uh Art League, Marino, yeah, really high level, all levels, uh a lot of different pockets in Jacksonville are like that. That's how I think about it.

SPEAKER_00 24:23

Yeah. So uh you went to DA. I think you graduated before me. 92. Yeah, okay. I star I went there in 93 and graduated in 93. Okay, yeah, most of you. I mean we knew each other shortly after. Right. Um, but um, so are you so were you born and raised in Jacksonville?

SPEAKER_03 24:45

Raised, not born. Born in Cleveland, Ohio, moved to 1983.

SPEAKER_04 24:50

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 24:51

Uh always a riverside rat. So we moved here. Um, my dad's side of the family's from Jacksonville. Okay. Right? So, and his family lived on the north side, but we moved to live on the riverside. Um, John Moore Street, the first block of John Moore and Margaret.

SPEAKER_00 25:10

Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 25:11

At that time, that was ended in 95. Oh, that's a long time ago. Yeah, yeah. Uh before the landing and all that stuff. I don't know, and I think the only thing at Five Points still was fancy stores and Ed City.

SPEAKER_00 25:25

And the Mongolian uh old school, right?

SPEAKER_03 25:31

Exactly. Exactly. So you know you know exactly what I'm talking about. Yeah. Um, yeah, so I've been in Dracksville that long, since 73.

SPEAKER_00 25:39

Okay. And then, and you went you went to DA, so you went for art.

SPEAKER_03 25:45

That was funny. Um went for art, and you know, before that, I was going to John Gore, we went to still school.

SPEAKER_00 25:54

Okay. All right. Yeah. Hanging out at public school number five and then.

SPEAKER_03 25:57

Right, right. And the neighborhood's always interesting because I lived two blocks away from there. So I've lived off over King Street on Green Street right there, right? Yeah. So I walked on a little two blocks of school, up a little two blocks home, right? And neighborhood was just rough. You know what I mean? It was it was it was some sour times. And school was kind of rough, you know? And I wasn't like big as kid, I wasn't getting picked on all that shit. And I had a big mouth. You know what I mean? Yeah. So I would just be like, talk my little snack. I couldn't really do nothing about it. And then after school, I'd be like, well, I gotta walk another way home now or run. Yeah, just run straight home. It's gonna follow me. I don't have a real exit strategy. And there were art classes there. Um, they just didn't really have a direction for you, you know, and I and then they call those electives, right? That was my first, you know, junior high. Yeah, and I took a graphics class there, and that's where all the art was at. So they taught you um drafting, architectural drafting, like blueprints and all that stuff. Yeah, so the class they were in that yeah, yeah, that's a political and yeah, all that, and that was cool. That's where I went to put a few artist friends, and some their seventh grade, like, oh wow, it's not snow. And then eighth grade, um, I see some of my same friends and then I don't and then adults see them, and I'm like, where they at? And they're like, yo, I'm going to Henderson. And I'm like, what's that?

SPEAKER_00 27:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 27:32

And then I get to manage school for art,

"It's all art" Autrelle's move from Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles work to "that Splinter work"

SPEAKER_03 27:35

and I'm like, what's that?

SPEAKER_02 27:39

I'm gonna do that.

SPEAKER_03 27:40

I don't know what an issue is. Yeah, yeah. I think that it was always just you know, DA and Statement, right? Yeah, right. And so, yeah, I I auditioned, right? Uh got in, and then 1989, ninth grade was my first year there, and I graduated in 92. And then so 99 was my first year there. 1990 is when John was really closed. It was just too just not too bad there.

SPEAKER_00 28:06

Once you were gone, they were like, trying to get it.

SPEAKER_03 28:07

Well, yeah, it was just progressively getting worse. Yeah. So that's when it shut down, you know, it's just out of control and gun fire and all that kind of thing. It was weird. Yeah. So I was happy. Um, I didn't have a plane anyway. Yeah. You know what I mean? So I was just I was just like, yeah, I'm here, not getting up every day. And I can take our classes three times. This is great. Totally. Girls are hot, you know what I'm saying? Totally.

SPEAKER_01 28:36

Yeah. So we're gonna think about you getting picked on because when did you get into martial arts?

SPEAKER_03 28:41

Oh my gosh. Um, that was I'm gonna say I got into it in high school, I'm gonna say probably junior year, and I was super lucky because uh, you know, at the time my mom was able to pay for the classes, you know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_00 29:10

And then was this always with Sifu, or did you start Okay, so hey good question.

SPEAKER_03 29:17

Uh no, no, awesome question. Uh Pax Paradigm blaming.

SPEAKER_01 29:22

I remember the commercials present.

SPEAKER_03 29:24

Straight up. Yeah, and the thing about it was Grandmaster Pac was there. Oh, wow. Right. So I didn't know how cool it was at the time, you know, understanding lineage and all that stuff because he's the real deal. Oh, but that's where I started. And then um, I think it was like 15. I got my first job at the Woody's barbecue that's no longer there. Right. That was when they first opened. And so I was able to pay for the classes myself, you know what I'm saying? And I didn't that until I got out of high school. That was a couple of years, loved it. And then once I was at college at FCCJ, um I was trying to acclimate to that schedule, and I was still working. And I was told myself, okay, but once I get ready, I'm gonna go back to the box, you know what I'm saying? And so the student walked around in college environments, right? He seen his shit. And he had an iQ t-shirt on. And I don't know about it. I'd seen some goofy movies, yeah, and we'll say they do iQU. I was like, that shit looks cool. And I asked him out, I was like, yo man, um I try to holler at you, right? So that's true. You're wearing it for a reason. So talk to me about it. And his name's Nick, and it was his space in Mandarin at Mark Spivak's

Lessons from from Draper: Paint pretty pictures, hide the poop in a delicious cake. Make connections

SPEAKER_03 30:46

dance school, and that's where they ran a space out the train three days a week. So that was my first experience with IQ, right? And I was doing that pretty hard. And then right around that same time, because the riverside and the Arnette influenced the Syphorn experience, right? The influence. That's when I was meeting people like Travis and Tiger and um, you know, Stephanie, yeah, Louie, uh Mike Tripli. Yeah, um I'll forget her name right now. I don't know, it's Jessica. Um just all the young ones that end up being like early masters, you know what I'm saying? Like the ones that you you know you show up and he just stick them on you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and that's then, and you know, I spent most of my time with Travis. Um I think the first time I actually met when I just before that, uh, he took Louie on me. Louis tried to like me up, it was funny. Um but yeah, I bounced around those cats on the side, I did a lot of like keto, got into some stick fighting, like some collie and those stuff, so that. And you know, whatever, that's history. Yeah. And then I stopped. Um, what happened?

SPEAKER_00 32:11

Stopped. You got two badass.

SPEAKER_03 32:14

Right. That's exactly what happened. Um school jacked up. So I don't know, they had a talk with you about it. I was like, all right, I've had a good run. Nah, it was just, it just, it just came down to like, you know, I wasn't able to pay the rent. Um, you gotta be good at business. Like after that's just about wasn't good at that part, I don't know. Yeah. Right. So, you know, I shut it down and uh I was like real bummed down about it because at the time I wasn't doing any art.

SPEAKER_00 32:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 32:45

Right? I was I had an art scholar special CJ, right? Part-time scholarship. Um, and that's where I was playing with Draper a lot.

SPEAKER_00 32:54

Yeah. And I didn't have Was he teaching photography there then?

SPEAKER_03 32:58

Draper was teaching watercolor at the time. Okay, okay. That's Science for Watercolor class, and that's what I met. That's cool. I met Pete Peterson and I met Draper. And um, I didn't have any direction at the time, and I didn't know what to do. And you know, school's tough. Yeah, you know, especially you don't know what the hell you're doing. And that's in my early 20s, and I think I was working. Where was that working? I had a good job at Thomas, one of the best jobs. Oh, yeah. Larry say it subs, right? You don't make those great choices. Yeah. And I was like, man, well, what are you gonna do? And I was just like, Yeah, fuck it, let's just keep doing Marshalls, you know. And so I didn't go back to school, and I just pursued that because it just seemed easier. It just seemed like more like this has to be at the times.

SPEAKER_00 33:43

It's a clear path, like you know what you have to do better, right?

SPEAKER_03 33:47

And it was cheaper, yeah. I'm seeing the results, you know. I got like a certificate. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, but I got this thing, you know. Right. And then um, you know, you you chase those streams, and I'm like, I don't regret it. It's fun, it's all art to me. And then I start, and then that's when I got really back into DJing. DJing's something I've always done, just listening to music and being around

The Art League in Murray Hill, a return to art and drawing and the value of connecting with artists

SPEAKER_03 34:16

records, but that's what I was like, I'm gonna just put myself out there and just get back into it, you know. And then that was the part of it too, like just art and just do that a whole lot. And now I feel like a lot of it for me is full circle. You know, um, still DJing there, still doing my art. I just started doing uh, you know, kickboxing at my friend's school, Josh Moss.

SPEAKER_00 34:39

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_03 34:40

Yeah, weapon water. You know, he's a musician. Yeah. This one's been pretty much.

SPEAKER_00 34:44

He used to learn for me at Rock and Roll Pixel. Right. So, you know, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 34:48

You know, he was the only person I met through RA too.

SPEAKER_00 34:51

T Tiger versus Crane or something.

SPEAKER_03 34:53

Right, Tiger versus Crane. So um a lot of it for me is the journey is just realizing the um more than just nine to five. Yeah. Earn the money and then features with hobbies, you know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_02 35:13

Like, not that well, like I said, I know there's levels and I know my levels.

SPEAKER_03 35:17

You know, I know I know my lane, and I'm healthy with it, and I'm always trying to push it and get better. But uh for me, I love art, I like music, I like martial arts. You know, all of it to me is is uh kind of a single thread that I'm trying to like.

SPEAKER_00 35:31

Yeah, I'm curious, like you just said a minute ago, like it's uh it's all art. Like the thing that draws you to these is some idea of like craft and expression.

SPEAKER_01 35:41

Yeah, I was trying to think of the thrill line throughout it, but I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 35:46

I mean for me, like part of it is um you like say idle hands, right? But idle minds too. Yeah, you know what I mean? Like and I can sit around and um and just be at home and put on our video here and just be practicing for hours and be straight. Like leave me a lot, like I'm good, you know what I mean? Yeah, same with drawing or messing around and getting some prints done. And even when training, like I can just be like, huh, and grab like a YouTube video of like some old footage and be like, let me make a notebook real quick, take some notes, you know. I started playing guitar and bass a few years ago. So all of those things, I think the activities uh I think I'm just seeking peace and refinement, you know what I mean? I feel like um give another analogy. I feel like I spent my youth doing into the world. You know, just really being out there.

SPEAKER_01 36:50

You know what I'm saying? I think I'm a fucking foot plan. You know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_00 36:57

Living off pizza, listening to that damn rat.

SPEAKER_03 37:00

Right. Listen to last week not listening to the rat.

SPEAKER_00 37:04

Because you're a teenager, right?

SPEAKER_03 37:06

Exactly. Right, just really because the rap, the splinter was like, just be safe, too. You know, and and and and and now as I get older, I feel like, not not feeling old, but just getting older. I'm not 20, I'm not 30, I'm not 40. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. And I feel like it's time to really think about that splinter work. You know what I mean? Yeah, but he didn't eat pizza, that was what they ate. You know, he just had his little kimono on. Like just doing some of whatever he was doing in the sewer, not nobody.

SPEAKER_00 37:44

Right. That's the flies of that. Right.

SPEAKER_03 37:47

No, but name the same, you know, like just opportunity. And I feel like all those things are opportunities for just self-improvement. That's true. And you know, even with the with the kickboxing now, like I'm not trying to solve all those internal problems of what's gonna happen if like man, I'm just gonna have fun, I enjoy it. You know, I need my exercise.

SPEAKER_00 38:11

And so, what is like the visual work doing for you now? Like now that you've kind of like you've had this return to art as a medium, and it seems like you're um still like using a broad uh variety of mediums to work in.

SPEAKER_03 38:30

I like that it's connecting me to people and I'm getting to have conversations that you usually don't get to have. You know what I mean? Like that's that's part of it, you know, um, and it's a big part of it. It's not so much what I make, yeah, in my internet, absolutely. But then um, this is something I learned from Traperman. Uh art can be that thing that will allow you to connect and communicate in a way that you may not visibly want to do. You know what I mean? Yeah, like he knows me, like kind of like a way by expression, like not the art, but just like in general, like what I want to say about it, feel about it, you know. Yeah, and he's like the funniest thing, not the funniest thing, it's just real. He was at the 12th, you know, uh statement art. I make really pretty pictures. Yeah. And I'm like, yeah. And he's like, but to me, by the time you enjoy my pains, you've already absorbed like half my bullshit. So it's like, you know, you can't say when you're not to the trans people by rubbing their face in the poop, you have to give them a beautiful cake with the people inside of it. Have them enjoy that, you know. And it's true, you know, and art is more than just charm or charisma, you know what I mean? Yeah. But, you know, I've it's like anything else, you know, you you do it, you you if you share it when you can, and people are gonna talk to you about it. You know, that's exactly and they're gonna connect with you about it. And I can't speak enough to uh about uh my experience with the art league, just being out artists. You know what I mean? You know what it's like just being in that environment is fun, you know what I mean? And wanting to contribute and wanting to support other artists and meeting other artists that you're like, wow, I never thought that was cool. But it's energizing. Yeah, but looking at what you're doing, that's yeah, or how you're doing it.

SPEAKER_01 40:45

So you mentioned the art league and you mentioned Murray Hill. Are those two separate things?

SPEAKER_03 40:49

So they have two separate locations, right? They have the um beach um Maiden location, and then they have the one in Murray Hill.

SPEAKER_01 40:56

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 41:00

I don't know about them. Are they like a Justice League, but more art focused? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:08

That's why the kickbox is.

SPEAKER_03 41:10

I just no, I I you know I can't really speak enough to like everything they do, but I'll talk about their portrait class, right? That's where I got hooked on. And again, it's this funny like connections, right? Yeah. When I was in high school, junior high, John Gorey, someone my classes was Nick Lander. Right? He was like a grade above me or whatever, right? Yeah. So I meet him there, right? Years later, I don't quite exactly know how, but I meet Jonathan King, right? McCell brother. And when I had to school, my children I was teaching, Donovan's like, gonna um, because I'm a self-defense classroom, and so then I had my mom come in. And I was like, awesome, so I need his mom. And then I met their whole family, and the whole family, like we're all family, you know, and for years, and for she was doing this for years. I mentioned that she was always an artist, the mom. Next sense, her sons are artists, yeah. Yeah, but she was always drawing at the art league, Marie Hill. And more than once, she was like, You should come sit for us, you know? Yeah, and at the time I wasn't doing any art, and my mentality was like, I'm not gonna do some stuff like that. Straight up, correct? I'm not gonna do that. Like, I'd rather be doing art than not doing art. And I was salty about art, you know, you got been there.

SPEAKER_00 42:50

Yeah, whatever.

SPEAKER_03 42:53

Right. And more than once she asked me, more than once I said no, and then one day I thought about it, and I was like, yo, that's your people, like she's your people. You know what I mean? Like, so really you shouldn't be telling her no when she asks you something. You should be telling her yes. And the next time that she asked me, I was like, absolutely. Not because of the art, but on the strength of that was my people. Yeah. And I didn't want to, you know, the you know, people ask all kinds of stuff and stuff.

SPEAKER_00 43:27

Here are people that are you you're you're magmatized toward, but if you're constantly saying no, they won't see that, and then they call stop asking. Right.

SPEAKER_03 43:34

And I went and I was just really impressed with

The art community doesn't help everyone equally, you have to go after it

SPEAKER_03 43:39

the whole experience. And by and for me, the experience was um looking what was being done. You know, I'm surrounded by our teachers, there's our students, there's all levels here, yeah, and they all come together to draw or paint. You know what I mean? And it's like collective energy, yeah. And it kind of reminded me of like a dojo environment, you know. Yeah, like for me, like I'm just like, this is pretty freaking cool, you know. And they're just drawing and they're drawing hard and doing and you walk up and you know, you see some like trial, you know, they're like maybe seven or thirteen or fourteen or fifteen or sixteen to you, like, and you and you kind of think about what you were doing at that time. Yeah. And and you walk up and you're like, I'm gonna go ahead and just, you know, give them some encouragement. And you're like, oh damn.

SPEAKER_01 44:47

Needs to be taken down a bit.

SPEAKER_03 44:50

Well you're like that's a lot of the different air snow break your hand on things

Do more than work, party, sleep to feel good about yourself. Activities put you around people

SPEAKER_03 44:56

and cover food for any of you only moly are really good, you know really beautiful and yeah and um you know and just seeing that effort everyone put into it was rad and I really got into the whole like so I can just sit here I ain't gonna do nothing he's just agreeing right and that's appreciated yeah you know and so um they were like dude we really enjoyed drawing you love if you came back as a model yeah which that's not something I've ever done but I was like heck yeah yeah you know and I did that probably more times than I can really around a lot really and this was all the you've the first time in your life that you've actually like sat to be a subject or any of that right the place is four blocks from my house other side of the canvas than you used to absolutely and I did that a lot it was really interesting for me just like because I wasn't doing much but I just like to do that I was like I didn't have to do much and afterwards everyone's gonna be high five right I really liked the instructor Lloyd McMahon I liked what he was teaching I liked the way he taught I liked the way he engaged everybody you know and after a while I was like to have you and I was like thank you and I'm nerfing the excitement that I had when I did return to the art supply store I was like art supplies it's been forever wow and I got my um sketchbook and I got the wrong pencils you know yeah yeah portfolio right yeah frames and um are these pre-jessive please yes exactly exactly and you know I get there and I hadn't hadn't drawn to anything in years and it was a struggle that I enjoyed yeah you know what I mean yeah yeah that I really really really really enjoyed uh is it at all like a new form of martial arts like it is in the sense that you can use it or lose it right you know what I mean yep and it's one of those things like when you're doing it you can really just lock in and then you're not concerned about your rent for an hour. Right right muscle memory or is that like that's part of it too you know you you're collecting um every drawing collected ideas right solution and

What he misses about Jacksonville: Nightly events and when 5 points was counter culture

SPEAKER_03 47:53

drawing is drawing is thinking it's thinking it's it's it's problem solving right and fortunately in this era there's so much of that that's already been done before you right you can learn you can do the research and get along and be like how do I draw that or how is that done or something all of it's work you know yeah but um you know but then you also have all their assumptions going into what you get that too that's fine like some people are really happy where they were at some people are happy to stay frustrated and stay where they're at too yeah you know some people's energy is that that's what feels them yeah everyone has Roland you know what I mean um I wanted to make sure that uh mine is well bring uh I wanted to make sure that my drawings were uh certain level for me um not the best at it but you know for me I just want bare minimum someone to look at it and be like okay he's not fucking crazy right right right representation that's just me yeah yeah and then when you and for me you learn much more than just how to convey something that's literal you know that's not necessarily my interest you know and that's why I like printmaking because the processes themselves they're not difficult things you know to print this and then do that it's the image what to print what to print you know what I mean like how much time do you spend when how do you get it just that part you know and I feel like a lot of it there's a lot of people that make art and they do not draw and they do not paint and I feel like it's difficult to arrange if you do a 2D art to really arrange something that has good composition if you don't at least have some familiarity with drawing or painting or color or composition perspective just for kind of general stuff. Yeah and it's it's easy to make something that pleases your eye but I can sometimes tell what a person is doing something and they can't draw or paint. Right. It's not just our yeah yeah yeah I can I can tell you know um and I don't take that away from them you know what I mean yeah get on you yeah I can tell when someone doesn't know shit about sculpture for example and they just like make stuff and maybe you know yeah and I don't that's really I'm not gonna be the person to take that away from I just hope they never ask me about it. Because I'll be like I would be real I'd be like yo I want what you do have you ever thought thinking about our class yeah yeah yeah or I mean same with cookie or anything I was like hey I see you like going to the beach a lot you ever thought about non Johnny sweet yeah have you seen a marked improvement from when you started taking what'd you say his name was William McClendon William McMahon McMahon was close to where you are now absolutely 100% I mean um how much of that was getting back on the horse versus how much was like kind of new information oh man um I'm gonna say 50-50 okay you know 50-50 it was a lot of uh getting back on and then a lot of just when I was being reintroduced to like academic text and other artists and people to study you know yeah and I realized and then I'm like well you know these were all resources that were around in the 90s I just didn't know about that right right I you know and then and here's the thing like I'll say this about DA in the 90s um everyone didn't get the same experience right right um and I was a little bit of a problem kid yeah I mean I was the most well behaved well mannered child I get that but um it just depended on who you were right like some of the students depending on their acumen and their and their discipline and how great they were they got the portfolio IP classes they got the slides made for the art and they got helping the colleges gotcha and it didn't matter if they were out doing graffiti murals illegally wait wait other ones like me they're just like we just graduate you get the first part yeah I go like we don't care what you do after high school

What're you doing now: Drawing, photography, music, upcoming show in Murray Hill

SPEAKER_03 52:39

we go fuck well yeah you know yeah you know that's just that's just how I was it's not a cookie crumble I guess I don't know if it's still like that um I I hope that you know in this day and the age they really look for the potential and two for in and the opportunity to do something after high school whether it's whether it's even just getting a Scotch FSTJ you know or yeah AI art.

SPEAKER_00 53:04

AI anything you know anything you know they they come this far they put the time in and you know why not you know uh AI art what do you mean by an I mean it's just an is it another medium I don't know I don't know we have to ask him I I read today that like the highest selling art now is AI art done by professional artists.

SPEAKER_03 53:28

Oof so I've watched people I've watched people um other artists right and they're like yo check this out like blah blah blah and let's let's talk about it real quick yeah because you know before I was AI right uh no one said AI but they were cool using like filters right and the wheels and you know and the layers and layers Adobe and all that kind of stuff and blah blah blah and now you have this sort of I don't know the word for it this language model or whatever right these models that will do a lot of the heavy lifting for you or really or actually beyond like okay my ideas for this or that they're like no render this right and give it these they're like out of all the things I've seen made it's probably this you're talking about right and then you're like yeah but give them five fingers not seven you know then um it's going to be a problem for creatives yeah right I don't know if I don't know if it's innately problematic right but it's going to be problem it's gonna be a problem to some not all creatives but it will be I think the problem is because of clients buyers that don't actually know the difference right so like if uh AI it's just it's a it's a it generates the most obvious possible pattern from language.

SPEAKER_00 55:12

So it's taking it to math saying this math equation means you mean this and then it generates a thing. And then that thing is gonna be always more or less the same I'm just thinking what what time we're having a real we're probably close to done. But like the the outcomes just like what it does with writing like the structure of the sentences is more or less the same the use of adverbs is like really obvious and predictable and the art is the same way. No I don't I don't think there's one time that I've seen AI art that I haven't immediately known that it's AIR. And I'm sure it'll get more nuanced the more data it gets and stuff like that. But it'll always it'll never really be able to like make something that is at a higher level of craft because it's always just the average right that's all that can be so at some point people will just be like okay we need creators again because we know what that can do.

SPEAKER_03 56:10

I just feel like it's like a lot of things um once we get a hold of it right we'll ruin it we yeah we use it it's being it's it's

The story of Autrelle's "Four" exhibition in the 90s

SPEAKER_03 56:20

if it if it hasn't decimal purpose great yeah you know thank you but typically it's weaponize yeah you know what I mean and if we ruin it you know just makes people feel unsafe like I mentioned most things you know if we can't use it to we if they can't be weaponize they're like uh we can't militarize this screw that you know and that's and that's part of the that's part of it we know that AI is probably part of something that's unmilitarized that they're using it we get like this version of it this commercial aspect or you know to it and much like military stuff then the toothpaste out the tube yeah that's the problem with gun control you know what I'm saying like it's it's out of the tube and you think about it you see it's not gonna go backward right in the four directions they all look hopeless but you know AI's out of the tube. Yeah and um I think yeah I I disagree with like the environmental impacts right you know about the data centers and all that like yeah but I mean I'm pretty neutral about it. You know what I mean like I don't I I've used it for a couple of things. That's what I was wondering if you're gonna mess around with it.

SPEAKER_00 57:35

I've used it for a couple of DJ flyers you know I mean I've never said I've never been like this is the best flyer every I've never I've never done that I've never I've never done that and then found something creative that works and like they don't work and then like no I mean you know there's no you it's there's lanes man and I think that's it I mean that it it's a matter of what you want to learn and and and even in the tech community they're always using it for like coding and yeah correcting stuff like that and who knows there might be medical applications where it's a save recognition can be very valuable so I the through line that I've kind of noticed from today talking to you and also came up in the conversation with Jim for sure maybe also with Crystal that you haven't mentioned when you talked about like it's all art Jim talked about how painting and writing to him since he's now doing them both he sees it's all just painting and Crystal said the same thing like I was talking about all the um weird objects she has in her cabinets there and she's like those are materials it's all paint and kind of what you're saying here is even in the time that you weren't painting martial arts was painting or or art right and then music is ARP and the DJing is art like all of these things are you taking a medium finding your voice through that medium crafting it in private sharing it to connect yeah I mean yeah yeah yeah I mean that's it I mean two things I feel like every every person needs to do something besides working sleep or work and party yeah you know and I feel like those activities I enjoy them my party in but it's like work to do it.

SPEAKER_03 59:36

Right. You know what I mean? So I feel like for me it gives me that balance and then that energy that that's my little type of work that drives that if I don't do those things yeah it just turns into something icky. Yeah like in terms of like I felt myself and how I feel about it's like what my time and all that and end of the day like I'm also a bit of a you know isolationist so I like these activities they put me around people you know I like DJ and I actually have to leave my house and and it's and be kind and experience kindness back and art because I like doing it and it's interesting that people would even want to look at my art also. Yeah I mean that people take that for granted but you know people can do anything else what they're talking. Yeah you know and meet other artists and artists are just cool people you know musicians are cool people uh martial arts um and you know I was never good at sports and I don't keep up with sports I don't keep up with like competitive martial arts you know I've never been like that person you know yeah yeah but garden of I have met some of the nicest people you know I mean kindest people and you know you get these little examples and life lessons across the board in these activities so uh it's out there for us you know like and and I think it was a cool place to get it so that's a lot of where I I just I like being a part of it I know that um I contribute to it give it my way and I just wanted to be positive and focused and I wanted to be something where I can continue to improve yeah and meet other people that are trying to do the same thing you know yeah on that note uh we have uh pre settle question that we want to end on um you may have already touched on it but can you think of uh one two things that you missed about Jason I think we don't have anymore or personally or that's a John question that I said um there isn't that I'm not just no that I missed me back in like in the nineties especially every night of the week there was something notable to do that she just waste but there is something like it that doesn't have to be necessarily going out either but there was a thing that you could go to like every night like Monday you would go to the old way by milk bar. You know what I'm saying? Or Thursday you would hit the Thursday spot you know where it's like an aerodone with an art bar you didn't have to go to every one but you k you're oh it's Wednesday right it's Wednesday you know it was intense and and Thursdays were usually a pretty intense like art music type of night totally yeah and it made you wonder like what was so raw about Monday through Wednesday we just have to let the beast out on the Thursday and then Fridays and Saturdays is kind of like eh you know it's the weekend you know great answer but I miss that and then I do miss this is me this is just I'm kind of a hater I I I can't say so I admit I'm a hater. I miss the old five points I miss it you know from seeing and I I watched the changes you know and I miss you know Donnell's not there and yeah I think she was the first person that was like purple hair and a crook I was like ooh I'm gonna mess it off but I like that you know I'm saying I blame hot team years I don't know oh dude absolutely we can we can blame it but that was like when I was DJing at Birdie's right and pre-op tender right is pre-COVID and when it came about I was like this is not I mean things are gonna change and it's not gonna be the same. Yeah you know what I mean and and when you look at five points now it's closer to not even San Marco because if you go to San Marco in the weekends they're still a bit more pointy toiny.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:16

It is yeah you know and it's not closed off because people are just running through the streets with like just going hate shit.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:22

You know what I'm saying it's not like everybody's kind of like whoa it's party round man I could good party don't get me wrong but I could good party that's just where I'm at when I missed I missed the older side whenever I felt like you know I can still go with them at my age and just kick it. You know what I mean it's not like that anymore. It's definitely a a younger person's uh vibe yeah I I respect that I'm called that yeah you know um but that's what I miss when I miss those daily where you just knew like oh it's Tuesday we're gonna go in we're gonna go to the uh the edge runs and because you would go and it was like incredible yeah and I and I missed all five points you know you go there and you know you do whatever you did.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:16

Yeah yeah there used to be regular five point like music and five like live music in five points regularly and there is not that now there's the like I guess the theater is a venue again but it's like a very like it's different it's a sold-out show kind of thing it's not like even a gold club five yeah you know like that was brilliant yeah that was a simple concept yeah but it was brilliant it's like you what okay you know yeah on the block every week and now that's kind of what Hopson was doing but yeah it's just a different I mean it's just I mean I'm gonna just be for myself real quick.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:57

This is not a comment this is a person that a lot of people want I'm not gonna put them out there like that. Culture versus like counterculture or you know I'm saying and five points used to be to a degree to a degree countercultural it wasn't the most ass overhead thing in the universe can all had pink hair and there was a punk band playing punk five and gray and now you just sort of have this more mainstream vibe I guess you know it's more accessible and and and the and the and uh you know you're not gonna most Do five points and holler at some homegrown five pink. That's not gonna happen. It's not going valid, but even like places like I'll say it like Root Down, for example. You know, he's been in five points all this whole time team these changes and he don't care. He's like, I'm doing whatever. You know what I'm saying? You know, I'm getting selling these whatever drinks and shit. Yeah, yeah. Like disco and all that, you know. It's it's fucking great, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:18

Yeah, fucking great.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:19

King thinks like that too, you know, it's just fucking wild. Yeah, yeah, that's crazy. Yeah, that's true. I'm hoping that like Edward to like that, like Mary Hills right there. But we'll see, we'll see. You know, at the end of the day, people need money to do cool stuff. And the real dynamic in Jackson Rules, if you're not selling alcohol to some degree, or beer or wine, or something like that, it's gonna be tricky to stay open. Yeah, yeah. And I feel like it's not like it's a lack of bad idea or better ideas, but for now, just things. I mean, look at Mernie Hill. Um, you got the fridge, which used to be town, yeah, right, which used to be a dojo. I understand. Yeah, it used to be a nice dojo. And that's my jump now where I says, later school is a great, like, thank school's gonna be a great bar one day. Good luck for now. And then you then the salon's gone, so it's gone, right? That's been there forever, and then you go to the Bun River, yeah. And of course, pizza's great, but marijuana. Right. Yeah, right. Then you go to what's next to it? I don't know, is it Pomingo or something? I think you're right. And then again, beer wine.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:37

Then you go to the Perfect Racker World.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:40

Yeah, then you go to the Forge, and it's beerwine. Yeah, and then you go to Butler's and it's bear wine. Then you go to uh the Irish Yeah, not wrong. And then the only place that's on beer wine on the whole strip is uh the Chinese place.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:58

So discipline they don't be barwine, or are they just coffee? Yeah, be wine. Oh, really? Yeah, and the walrus the walrus does.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:05

Oh yeah. Walrus is great. I'll I'll I love it though. You know, I I love it, man. I think that it's about it's about the youth. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 1:09:12

Yeah, you're right. Yeah, and also like I seems like a just in Jackson. We've talked about this before, like uh you don't make as much money, and uh it makes you want to drink for some reason. You know what I mean? It's like, oh, I'm broke, but at least I can like get wasted on a Friday. Yeah. Or whatever. And like it becomes the culture in this terrifying way. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:37

Yeah. I mean, that's supposed to be great place to build your skills that you know it's affordable to live compared to like prison of the country you're saying. Right. But uh it's difficult, like if you're really just into that bohemian artsy lifestyle to like get the bag. Yeah, you know what I mean? It's really difficult. I mean, there's a lot of circle jerking, there's a lot of gatekeeping, and all that just uh, you know, no names, but we all know the deal. You know what I mean? I mean a lot of it is a lot of it is uh who you know. Yeah. Right, which is fair. It is what it is, you know. And uh it is what it is. I think I feel like if you're gonna know if you have your own menu, you got your skills up, you've done your networking, great, you know, more power to you. Um, I feel like there's enough room for everyone out here to get what they want. That's kind of how I always operated. I've always felt like you talk to who you talk to.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:32

The way you talk to them, and you do it, you do the way you do it, and then you get what you get. And then you will talk to who you talk to, how you talk to them, and you do what you do the way you do it, and you'll get what you get. And, you know, that's really about it. But art, I I love art. Art is another one of those timeless things that I'm you know, circling back to that. So I'm looking forward to just lately it's been uh learning a camera. I've got my first fancy DSR camera. Oh, right. Yeah, so I'm learning that and just want to find more models to do. I'm not gonna stop drawing. That's what it's uh. Right, you know, and then print making was gonna be something I do besides drawing.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:19

You know, but really I'm gonna put my physics in the drawing. That's what I'm running the most, what I've improved the most in terms of how I feel it myself.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:26

Yeah. Do you have any uh shows coming up or anything?

SPEAKER_03 1:11:31

I'm gonna have one more kind of smaller show at Ventures Exchange on Murray Hill. Some of the prints I have at server town that are showing that. Cool. Um, projects for a month or so.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:42

Um but right now Will you DJ during our show?

SPEAKER_03 1:11:47

I'd want to. I might talk to them about that because they have a little, they have not a little bit. I know you've DJed there before. Right, they have events and you know, pop-ups and all that stuff, and they're doing a lot of good work in the community too. I, you know, I didn't know that the Vintage World had so much besides just the exchange of information. You know what I mean? It's it's really interesting. So yeah, great people to work with. So I I like the connect with that. That's kind of what I'm into when I say like besides the music. Yeah. Something like that. I like that.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:19

Right. Well, thanks so much. Yeah, thanks. That was real good, man.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:23

Thanks for having me. I really appreciate it.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:24

Yeah, it's been a scene of fun. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:26

Yeah, thank you. Cool.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:30

Yeah, that was a fun.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:32

Yeah, we laughed a lot. Uh we've been missing.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:35

There were a lot of serious. I mean, sure.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:40

Yeah, so the the other question is, you know, what what are we missing? What's uh what's a a place that you go or a thing that you turn to for when like you want to do something or you want to maybe get away from everything? Like when's the that is a freaking great question.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:00

Um I put myself in a weird spot lately uh where I stopped drinking.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:06

Right. Um I don't really hit venues for entertainment. It's rare. Not because I don't like entertainment, you know, just I pick my spots a little older. I think that at my age, it's weird to be at the club every day hitting up the show.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:23

I can miss a couple of years. I finally aged out myself. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:27

I can miss a few shows and it's gonna be right. But as a non-drinker, yeah, I feel like um there should be a few more places where you can come be a non-drinker and post up and still be entertained, you know?

SPEAKER_04 1:13:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:45

Um, or at least offer us more than water. Right. So you know what I mean? Like if there's there's some places where I'm just kind of like, take my money, what you got? You know, yeah. Uh it's gonna be uh the margarita mix.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:03

That's like uh the whole problem with being a vegetarian, which I've never been, but all we have is a veggie burger, you know, they don't have anything else, right? Yeah, no. So do you have have you found a spot that you like?

SPEAKER_03 1:14:15

Or I don't, you know, and that depends on the whole experience that you're trying to go listen. You know, I'm a s I'm a s I'm a smoker, so you know, you can't do that.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:26

Oh, that's true, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:27

You know what I mean? Yeah, um, I like Casba, because I can go there, I can get a hookah, yeah, get a water, draw. Oh yeah. Or work on my iPad, or work on some music on my laptop or whatever.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:43

You know, and people say, oh, you can just go to Starbucks, fuck Starbucks, you know what I'm saying? Like, whatever.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:50

And if there's not enough lounges, I guess. Like, and I'm not saying that every place can't. Oh, like for example, if there was like a cool coffee lounge that was open late, that had you know, sell beer, sell wine, sell crack. I don't care.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:05

But the other day, but but there's not, is there? I can't think of one that's open late like a coffee to I know. Right. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:13

What's that greenhouse place that they have like smart drinks and stuff like that? Um I haven't gone there much, and their coffee isn't great.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:21

Well, you know, I but I I think it's just a matter of people really coming together and asking for it, not just settling what we already have. And there's so much out here that it's it's hard to say settling can be a little dismissive. Right. I don't have like you know, there's nothing out here, but right. No, yeah. For me personally, nerdy tendencies, you know what I'm saying? Like not trying to drink, just chilling, you know, you're gonna get out some cool people, social. Kind of like how we have those events at Phoenix, right? Yeah. Everyone's kind of gathered or ever, but then it's like it's over.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:53

Right.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:54

You know what I mean? Like you can't just a place for that. Right. You can't just go to Phoenix at like, oh man, it's like 9.30, it's Friday. I just want to go study and no, just hit Phoenix, you know what I'm saying? Get a coffee, get a get a get a cake or something like that. Yeah, you know.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:07

Yeah, totally.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:08

Because spaces, I mean, like, you can't just go, I mean, because they want you to leave. Right. Like, you know what place I like, and this is not a place to post up. I like the Fox. Yeah, and then you go there and just chill, and you can read your folio, like eat, but then suddenly you go to fuck a value, please. Yeah, yeah. 30 people like you know, the Scottish has a nice vibe, it's a little pricey from what I'm talking about. Right. But it's not designed for you to just kick it.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:37

Right.

unknown 1:16:37

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:38

You know what I mean? Right. It's again you get you tell the table. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 1:16:41

When you go to the casual, you sit outside or you sit inside.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:44

I can sit in the bar for this reason. I usually go myself, and I don't want to occupy a table where a person can make a two people as opposed to just one. Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:54

You know what I mean? Yeah. I always thought about that. That's true.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:57

That's just me. You know, if I go there with a person, uh, another person, then I'm happy to get a table and we can make sure that while we're there, we're taking care of that person and all that stuff, you know. But that's me, I'm not even drinking drinking water the whole time. And you know, I'm not like a cheapskate as far as that goes, too. But I'd rather just go to the bar or just an empty space and just get my work done later or whatnot. Yeah. But spaces like that, I I love, man. I'll sit around during the day and be like, man, I would just go somewhere like that. I would just be sitting there and that's it.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:28

That's what I gotta do, and no one and the I don't I mean, I'm sure there's a Reddit about that, but that's kind of it kind of reminds me like there's uh you know, some of my calendar history that's like liminal spaces. You've probably seen it as just like hallway. I guarantee you there's people that are listening rooms are really big in other cities. Oh, uh, and is that I'm thinking of someone at Disco. What's a listening room?

SPEAKER_00 1:17:50

Where it's just like a place, it's like a coffee house that has music. You can select music, or they'll have record players that are like all space.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:59

Um yeah, but I just I bet there is a lot of people that are like there's just no place, just cozy, go hang out for a while, and you know. Drink some amino sodas.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:11

Yeah, something that's not too much sugar, but well, there's probably a couple empty studios here, and we can prototype it. Oh, we could turn this into one of those hobbyists, like uh like a bar, low ABV bar. What's A B V year? Alcohol by volume. Oh I thought when so that's like your objective here. Like we might allow a little alcohol, but the objective is not get shitty.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:35

Oh, yeah, that probably wouldn't let me in there. I'll show up here up. I'm like, my life. I can be doing so much. Like, I'll start just like some goofy craft or something like that, and it'll sit there for months. I'll be like, I'm just too hungry over here. I'll fuck with it. So I need to do where you're at.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:53

Yeah, well, drinks are powerful though. I remember um one of those discourgeon, but successful art shows I had, I had it at my house. This is like back in the 90s where I was living at, and I invited everyone. Um discussion about it, and then we'll show that. And the show was called four, and I had four pieces to show. And people didn't like that shit. And I and I and I and I was like, and I was kind of like, well, one, you didn't have to come, you know, yeah, two, it doesn't even cost you anything. Yeah. Um three. Well you know, the people that actually set it to my face, and I had to start throwing it out there like, dude. And it wasn't like the art machine. No, no, no. Like I had it mounted, I made my handmade my own scrolls, and I didn't have to. It was like, you know, I didn't I did all this shit for you, you know. It was just four, I just had these four pieces. And there's two on the nest for people. I know, man. And then like well, I just just in case I had this like artist statement, and I had it like typed up in an envelope, so there was like no way that you could say I was like, oh, I called him out and he just made the children fly. Like, nope.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:19

Like serving with papers, just like literally, and I think I think and uh it wasn't like it was fine.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:23

I think what I think was Matt Chuck. Um he's kind of like everybody and I was like dude here. And I answered the first question, I was like, there's only four pieces here. I was just like, I know. Um but I I next time I'll do more. I don't know, I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:48

Yeah, I have two thoughts. One, it's bold. Obviously, you invoked something all these people, but like, what is the minimum like? Right. He better have at least eight pieces.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:57

That was kind of where I was at, you know, exactly. And then I was like, You can have a little vote box, like how many pieces should be in the next show.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:06

And I went and I just kept going, and I was like, and I was like, hey, it's not even that great. And I'm just like, I well, then then it was an ass, and I was like, I get it, but I've seen you human worse partners from this. I've seen it. I've seen it. So just give me one time, man. Yeah, come on, like you're gonna lie, let us see this ball and control. Come on, man.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:41

What about the Barbie dolls?

SPEAKER_00 1:21:48

You should have been the same five.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:02

I didn't do that shit at all. I would never even think of complaining about that.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:06

And I put them on there was like there was a lot of bread and I was just like, you know what? And I put that, and I was like, okay, next show all snacks. No R. You know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_01 1:22:17

The one at the silver cow.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:19

I learned my lesson, man. You gotta have at least eight pieces in order to see. Yeah. Right? But that was the one mind jump. I was ever known R show and just have no R and just all the amenities and just looking for like works on just keep looking around because hear me out.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:39

What if next show? No glass on the work, all just paper mounted to the wall, tons of Cheetos. Right. You touch it, you buy it. You buy it.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:54

That's it.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:57

I like that. I like that. Oh, you ready to wrap it up? Yeah, I think so.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:02

Hey, perfect, thank you. Yeah, thank you.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:05

I'm glad we decided to ask that second question, man, because we're not