Steve Williams and the Matrix of Chaos

Meet Steve Williams, artist, designer, influencer, gallerist, real estate developer and “artreprenuer”

Murray Hill in the 90s; Preston Haskell’s Fire Ants performance piece, Steve spills tea about when Pedestrian rocked the house, starting a cult called Brooklyn Art Center, and where the galleries went. His origin story, mentoring, and exploring dumb business moves. The New Mall Culture and Jacksonville’s growing portfolio of artist-run spaces.

Art, Business, and Real Estatery

Steve talks about the journey from commercial design for the family business to gallerist and painter to business executive to real estate developer. Alleyways of chaos, schizophrenic puzzle pieces, and discovering the DNA bricks of old neighborhoods. 

"Everything is art, even business." 

The Toilet Gallery and Harbinger

The toilet showroom Steve transformed into Florida Mining gallery. He’s identified on prospecting sheets as the weird one. How selling the family business freed him to pursue his passions unfettered. He’s invested in new spaces in Springfield. The building he and his husband, Fitz, just purchased on Walnut Street which will be the future home of The Inventory Room HQ and the next era of Florida Mining. Their plans to enter the hospitality space, open a maker’s market, and build out more Springfield connectors to support this new creative hub. 

The Era of Artist-Run Spaces

How artists are building communities to last with a little less adherence to capitalist success. Although Steve’s hot take is ”don't get mad, grow!” He believes in a world where Austin wasn’t always cool and discusses new developments on the north end of downtown, including the new “Homerdome” Publix, the Gateway project, Pearl Square and the emergent restaurant concept: “Flo-Yoda Frozen Yogurt Taco Shop”. 

Interesting Things Emerge From Artist Culture

Steve aces his test, misses The Landing, great clubs of the past, and One Spark most of all (spoiler alert - Willis killed One Spark). His assessment is that Jacksonville needs connectivity and creative leadership in the form of bigger, better group chats. It’s time to push for art and get together. Buy art. Go to museums.

Season 2 of Floridation discusses art and culture in Northeast Florida with a different artist or culture maker each episode.

Young Buck Coffee locally roasts coffee fresh every week and delivers it to your door. Order today at youngbuckcoffee.com 

For more check out The Floridation Papers at Floridation.substack.com. Thanks for putting a little a Florida in you. Y'all come back now, hear?

Transcript

Meet Steve Williams, artist, designer, influencer, gallerist, real estate developer and “artreprenuer”

SPEAKER_03 0:12

Preston Haskell came once and and he was covered in fire ants in the backyard because you know it's just a not as a performance art. It became that, right? It was like we grabbed anything we could at the time.

SPEAKER_01 0:25

Could you do something like that today? Or is it attack President with an ants?

SPEAKER_00 0:31

It would be harder to get the president with fire ants these days.

SPEAKER_03 1:15

That's terrifying.

SPEAKER_02 1:18

But you really are up to some big things right now, and I'd love to learn more about like what that is, but I also want to talk a little bit about like what makes you tick. We know that you know, at your I don't want to say that I want to project anything onto you. I know that you are an artist, and so you've been a part of the art community here for a long time, but you haven't just been in that community as an artist, you've had all these different ways of interacting with the art scene in town. So I'd I'd love to talk about all of that.

unknown 1:51

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:51

Yeah, I'd love to talk about that. I've done a lot of different things, and it seems like looking from the outside in a little bit crazy, but it all makes sense to me.

SPEAKER_02 1:59

Yeah. Well, you've I mean you've already come up many times in conversations that we've had with people. I think Crystal talked about you. I know that Jim, we talked to Jim about pedestrian. So there's lots of you've already kind of peeked in to super flattering thing. You're already you're already in the canon or the universe. I don't know what that is.

SPEAKER_03 2:18

That's terrifying too.

SPEAKER_02 2:21

But I wanted to start with this question that you know we're starting to kind of ask people because it helps us kind of get in the vibe of of the Jacksonville that we've experienced or or the Florida that we've experienced. You were you were born here, right?

SPEAKER_03 2:36

I was born in Raleigh. Okay. Came here when I was five. Okay. I've always been here, really.

SPEAKER_02 2:41

Right. So you grew up here, but weren't necessarily born here. Okay. Right. So uh I picked up on an accent. North Carolina. He's had it since he was a boy. Okay, the uh this is the prompt. The first time you remember being surprised by art or culture in Jacksonville, where was it and what happened?

SPEAKER_03 3:04

Boy, that's a really hard question because there's so much here and there's been so much history. But I think the first time that I realized it was special was when I visited a studio in Murray Hill that Jim Draper had started with April Glover and George Kinghorn. And it was just a special place. There was artists, they each had an artist studio, and in the front there was a little gallery that had been made up. And each month they took each studio member took the space and did something interesting, whether they showed their own work or they brought somebody in from the outside, and it was just a really special place that that inspired me to do more and move into a gallery kind of effort right behind that. But I think you know, there were some crazy things that happened at that little little art shop on in Murray Hill back in 1996, honestly. There was like people doing thoughtful art installations and messaging and curation in a museum kind of style.

SPEAKER_01 4:06

There's like a couple artists getting, you know, retail space and doing that. Does anyone do that now? Or that's a good question.

SPEAKER_03 4:14

I think we're doing that over on Margaret Street. We have about six artists at Margaret Street Studio there, and they have events and they have artist studios in there. Cork is kind of doing that on a very, very large, larger scale. And Phoenix, I think, will probably follow suit there with lots of studios and gallery spaces, hopefully.

SPEAKER_02 4:36

It's interesting that like it feels like mall culture is kind of like which we grew up with mall culture, right? And love them all. That's kind of like now those are like ghost towns if they're still standing, right? But the counterculture has moved into these mall-like structures like Phoenix and Cork. It's it's like camps, it's like they've put us in camps. We used to be allowed to sell our art on the streets.

SPEAKER_03 5:02

That's where those people are.

SPEAKER_02 5:07

Yeah, okay. So Murray Hill gallery experience in the 90s, and like that that like set your love for like a great gallery experience. Because you're talking about now this Walnut, you say Walnut Street Gallery?

SPEAKER_03 5:23

Walnut Street, right? That's where we're moving now. But but back then, really, I didn't even I was an artist coming out of school, and there were you know, fresh on the scene, there was no place to show the work in Jacksonville. Gallery Contemporanea with Sally Ann Freeman, which was incredible. And it was just a like when I saw what she did that I knew immediately that's what I wanted to do. And Jim was showing with her Allison Watson, Oscar Sin and so many others that that y'all know, and so that sort of led into Pedestrian Gallery and started my gallery experience.

SPEAKER_02 5:55

Nice. Tell me your what was your vision for pedestrian?

SPEAKER_03 5:59

Our vision was to have a very pure New York style gallery in Jacksonville, as Sally Ann did with Gallery Contemporanea, but we wanted it to be super pure. Um, so I didn't show my work there. I was painting at the time, but I didn't show my work just to be super unbiased and pure about showing other people's work, and it worked really well. And it was a little Queen Anne style house in five points that uh we gutted and turned into this little Soho style gallery. I mean, we were attacked by people in Jacksonville, it was just an amazing support. I think the first night we had an opening, it was a three-story house, and the first night we had an opening, there were so many people in that house. I was standing in the stairwell going to the second floor, and that house was rocking. Don't tell the fire marshal, but that's not up the coat. And that's not a metaphor. It literally It was literally I thought it was gonna fall down, like it was really rocking.

SPEAKER_02 6:55

Okay, Rod. So did you like when did you when when did your relationship with art start? Were you a kid that doodled?

SPEAKER_03 7:05

Like No, I didn't feel free enough to you know explore anything creative whatsoever until I went to college, and then I took a couple art classes and I just sort of fell in love with painting and drawing, and that's thanks to Louise Freshman Brown and Jim Draper. When I came back to Jacksonville, they just I just really loved what they taught and and what they were doing. Jim in a studio environment, Louise in an academic environment. Yeah, and yeah, I just fell in love with it. And that's where it started.

SPEAKER_01 7:34

And you do mentoring now on some level, or yeah, I love to do, I love to help.

SPEAKER_03 7:40

And I think the whole reason I'm still in the gallery business is to help people realize that this is a thing, you know, and we we can have nice spaces, beautiful museum spaces that show off work. And I just I don't know, you know, it's a really dumb business move. I'm not gonna lie. It's a really dumb business move. But it was really fun to see young artists learn how to install, learn how to curate, learn how to show their work. I think you always, as an artist, you always learn something by putting your work up on a wall, you know. And if you put your work up on a wall that's the proper wall, you're gonna learn something even more. And so I've been super passionate about that over the years, probably too much. I mean, I just I think it's something you don't see a lot in Jacksonville where people really invest in in high quality, a lot of things, right? But I mean, certainly art.

SPEAKER_02 8:29

I do I want to talk a little bit more about like your journey to art, but but on what you were just just saying, I am really curious where sometimes in the in the gallerist world, I worked for you for a little while and we did and we did Florida mining stuff, and we'll talk about Florida mining for sure. But I remember in those experiences, there's this quality of these art exhibitions, and I've probably not seen many outside of here. I've been to a couple in other places, but most of them here, where there's this performative quality of the actual experience of showing the art, and it's almost like some dance of who wins and gets to actually sell a piece. But no one ever seems to really be cognizant of like what an emotional connection a piece of art in your house is, like something that you see every day in a space, or not just in the house, like this piece like is this space to me. You know what I mean? If I saw one of those prints elsewhere, I would immediately think of this space. It's such an intimate relationship. And it seems hard to kind of navigate that jump from like, yeah, we're having a little dog and pony show here so that you'll come and so that you'll be exposed to the work. But then like, how do you get it to like know if it's gonna noodle in your into your brain the right way in your life, you know?

SPEAKER_03 9:52

Yeah, collecting is definitely definitely hard and weird, right? Yeah. What is it? I mean, everyone in the south, it's a little foreign to us because we haven't had a good a good run of people stepping up and doing that and talking about it and being excited about it. It's so small. It's super small here, you know, so and and second tier, right? I mean, we're not Atlanta, we're not Miami. But we do sit in between and we like create like this really amazing hub spot to right.

SPEAKER_02 10:22

But volume matters.

SPEAKER_03 10:23

Volume matters for sure.

SPEAKER_02 10:24

When you have a lot of people, you have a lot more opportunities to sell a piece. It's just yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 10:29

So I I think the internet changed that a bit.

SPEAKER_02 10:31

I mean, we don't sell a lot online, but it's becoming more and more to Will to Will's point, like there used to be it seems like there used to be these these gallery environments or like artists were able to start galleries and maybe real estate was a little more accessible at the time, but that seems to have shut down mostly. Like, I don't see a lot of those environments around. What I mean, what galleries what galleries are there in town? I remember a lot being in San Marco and in Avondale, and now I feel like I don't ever see them.

SPEAKER_03 11:01

Yeah, I mean, I guess over the years there's been some ups, you know, startups and whatever, like Zeg. I remember Zieg and Rummel gallery back in what was that, 99 or 2000? Oh, yeah. It was an amazing gallery. Ryan Rummel, I think Lee Harvey was part of that.

SPEAKER_01 11:16

And oh, I remember that name, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 11:17

Yeah, that was an incredible effort. Spiller Vincenti was a cra incredible effort back in 2001. I was lightly a part of that. Push Two Gallery started, you know, started and stopped downtown. That was a beautiful space. But right now, I think you know, what's interesting about Jacksonville and what's interesting about the art world is a lot of spaces are artist-run spaces, and Jacksonville seems to be having developing this portfolio of artist-run spaces. Hope, you know, with Yellow House is an incredible example of that. She's an artist and running a space. Noli and George opened Unicat, that's an incredible artist-run space. Yeah. And I think you feel that, you know, when an artist is running a space, it's like not quite like New York. And so we've really spent a lot of time talking out our strategy of we're an artist-run space, but I was like putting myself on a shelf kind of as an artist. And I'm ready really not to do that anymore. You know, I think it's time that I jump in the mix of artist-run spaces, and and maybe that's what Jacksmell becomes of this great portfolio of all these artist-run spaces. I mean, Momo, the street artist, is here. He's got a really incredible space in Springfield. Unicats in Springfield. I mean, Hope is over here in Riverside. I don't I guess Touche Gallery. I apologize I haven't been there, but I think the idea is good and and when what he's trying to put together is is exciting for you know.

SPEAKER_02 12:43

Yeah, I guess I did I forgot about that one. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:45

So do you collect yourself? Did you familiar?

SPEAKER_03 12:48

I do, yeah. My husband and I collect art. We've been I've been collecting since like 95 here in the region.

SPEAKER_01 12:55

But you know every gallery current going back 30 years.

SPEAKER_03 13:01

That's that's impressive memory. Probably back to the 70s, to be honest, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:06

Wow. And so do you think the level of support for the arts has changed at all, or has it always been sort of middling?

SPEAKER_03 13:17

I mean, Rev's a really good question, right? For visual arts here in Jacksonville, it's always been kind of up and down a little bit, you know. There's been times when like our first year in business at pedestrian gallery, we sold a million dollars worth of art first year out of the gate. That was like late 90s, you know. People were buying art, things were recovering. Everybody was looking hopeful until you know 9-11, and then that killed that. And I don't think it's been the same ever since, really, to be honest. But you know, we've had highs and lows in at Florida Mining, and we've had times when we took people to Miami, or you know, we went to the Atlanta Art Fair last year, and we did really well. I mean, we sold a lot of work, and it that makes you real excited about it. But then there's lots of times when you know people don't think to collect something interesting when they're you know, when we're not doing shows, or when I don't know, when we're not promoting stuff, I guess. I don't know. I don't know what drives somebody to you know make that decision.

SPEAKER_02 14:51

But it's interesting too, these milestones, right? Like there's 9-11, that changed behavior, and then there was COVID, which I'm sure changed behavior. People were more in their spaces, maybe. Did sales go up? Like they couldn't go to a gallery, but they probably thought more about their walls.

SPEAKER_03 15:07

No, nobody bought anything. It was terrible. Yeah. Yeah. But afterwards, people wanted to get out, so we did pick up after the COVID was kind of over and did a few masked shows and did pretty good.

SPEAKER_02 15:22

Nice, nice. So tell me a little bit about your journey

Art, Business, and Real Estatery

SPEAKER_02 15:28

to being an artist. Were you a designer first and kind of came at it from more of like that sort of aesthetic, like thinking about it as an element, or did you just get your hands straight in the paint? Like, well, I've never I don't think I've ever had anybody ask me this question.

SPEAKER_03 15:43

I went to graphic design school, and during graphic design school, I I loved painting and drawing, so I tried not to take any graphic design classes. I tried to take only painting and drawing classes, and I fell in love with painting and drawing and sculpture and just the whole thing. So yeah, I mean, design always kind of is in the background. I feel like I'm more of a designer maybe than an artist. My family had a sign company, and so I went right into that after college and started doing graphic design for the company. And then, you know, it just turned into where I was trying to follow my passions, and I I stopped doing that for 10 years and opened a gallery, painted full time, and just to try to mix some things up here in Jacksonville. That was like '96, '97. Oh, well, there's so many of those stories of everybody growing up, you know. Like I think Lee Harvey's a good one, Steven Dare's a good one. I'm a good one, like, you know, everybody arguing all the time because we're so immature. I mean, it's that we're all on the other side of that now, I hope.

SPEAKER_02 16:36

I I mean, was the was the the scene back then where was it did it feel like y'all were shaping each other critically and pushing you to but greater heights? Did it feel like everyone was against everyone else, or you were in competition with each other or critic like mean to each other?

SPEAKER_03 16:52

What was the oh late 90s? It just seemed like everybody was working together way better. I mean, we had we had so many things happening. We started a art colony or whatever you want to call it, like it was called Brooklyn Contemporary Art Center in Brooklyn.

SPEAKER_02 17:07

I think they call it a cult. Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 17:10

Exactly. Uh Brooklyn Art Center didn't end well. Didn't end well.

SPEAKER_01 17:16

So and so obviously the old Brooklyn, which you know, there's nothing. I think there's one house, but where was it in Brooklyn? It was actually downtown, right?

SPEAKER_03 17:24

It was actually in Brooklyn. It was across the street from where the gate is. There's a now a blue cross blue shield parking garage there, which is so pretty.

SPEAKER_01 17:32

Beautiful.

SPEAKER_03 17:34

But our ours was an old bakery, 40,000 square feet, and there was a warehouse attached to it, and we had 40 artists in there. You name it. I mean, we had Kurt Polkey, we had Ryan Rummel. Ryan was our first tenant, Mac Truck. There were so many people in that in that project, and it was only like a year, and we had so much support. I mean, tens of thousands of people, well, maybe like thousands of people would come out to the openings. Yeah. Yeah. We had we had a thing we did, it's called Art Stop because I'm getting way off here, but like I-10 and 95 meet, you know, the two major highways in America that meet right here in our neighborhood, five points. Right. So we started this thing called Art Stop just to kind of make it a reason to stop. There was no other real reason to stop in our neighborhood. Yeah. So we decided, hey, what about our idea? Started talking about art stop, and we did have probably 10,000 people involved in that at some point. We had a parade, I know, that that had at least 10,000 people that came out. We did art cars and all kinds of crazy stuff back then. It was a really, really good time. And it was collaborative, but everybody fought. You know, I mean, five points was like like a blood scene over there.

SPEAKER_02 18:45

Everybody was like biting and I remember when it'd be like, oh, the skinheads are out. Yeah. Don't talk to that girl with the Chelsea cut. Someone will come in here and punch you.

SPEAKER_01 18:55

Yeah, I remember being afraid to go into Starlight kind of figure what it was.

SPEAKER_03 18:59

Oh, yeah. Oh yeah. Or adcocks, but that was more because of this masks and stuff. Or boogers or whatever. The shoes. Yeah. I'm still scared to go into the show.

SPEAKER_02 19:08

Big shiny? Yeah. Okay. So I'm interested in this duality that you've lived in where I mean you were kind of talking about it just then, your your family's sign shop, and so then you're doing design for commerce, essentially commercial designing.

SPEAKER_03 19:24

Right.

SPEAKER_02 19:25

And you're also painting in that time frame. And from that time came Florida mining eventually.

SPEAKER_03 19:34

Eventually.

SPEAKER_02 19:36

So you kind of most artists that I know kind of just like, I don't want to think about the money. I'm just gonna do the I don't care about the money, whether that's true or not. It's just like like a some kind of like cultural stance that it seems like lots of artists take. And and money becomes like an insult or something, you know? And I think that's like self-fulfilling fan like trap, you know what I mean, and all kinds of things, but it seems to be really like common in the in the culture. And you kind of are coming around to art with already kind of commerce is already like entangled in all of that. And you kind of locked in on the idea of you, you know, you can be creative in design and get and get money or you know, do it for clients and like sharpen craft and all these things. But you can also go and paint your own stuff, but then you don't that doesn't have a built-in economy. You have to create the economy for that. You have to find places where you can go and show and sell it, or you can just say you don't want that, and so that way it doesn't hurt your feelings when you don't sell something. And I I think that there's just this interesting parallel that you've had to walk, almost maybe a multiple personality conflict that you had, where you're like, Well, uh, there's this interesting creative business of being a galerist, and I have these things to say that I see visually and I want to create into the world. And then as long as I've known you, the sign shop was always like, I'm trying to make that fit because I'm supposed to.

SPEAKER_03 21:16

I was like really that's really perceptive. And I and I get a lot of people just saying, like, what do you do? Like you're all over the place. It doesn't make any sense to me. But it's always made sense to me because I've had this family responsibility the whole time, and so I want to perform for my family, you know, and I and I have and I did. And then I have this thing that comes up because I don't really love what my family did, so I was always looking for something to distract myself into something that I loved. So it became this matrix of chaos, basically, yeah, which actually started working and it became interesting. And I guess at some level it was a little interesting and it was fulfilling more that way because I had all of these art things going on, all these you know, business things going on, different real estate things going on. So I guess I'm like an entrepreneur real estate developer.

SPEAKER_02 22:07

Yeah, totally. You're just renaissance, man.

SPEAKER_03 22:09

Yeah, just well, I don't know. I don't I don't think I ever made it to that. I think I just made it to like the chaos man, like the all the stuff happening to make something happen, which really is what if you think about it, what a real estate developer does, and I'm fascinated with real estate. I don't know how to do that, but getting into real estate a little bit more, and I'm I'm trying to figure out how to become a real estate developer that does projects that are interesting and takes it up a notch, right? So I've gotten my family responsibilities behind me, and now I can think about art and I can think about development, I can think about real estate better, and I'm excited about that.

SPEAKER_02 22:40

Yeah, I'm I'm really kind of I'm plotting that that course as we talk because I think there is this interest you've I as long as I've No, no, you've also been really in love with buildings. Like you see a building that you love and you love it. And when somebody does something bad with it, you're angry about it.

SPEAKER_01 22:57

Like, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:58

He really loved that parking garage that across blue shoe. He said baby blue thinking, you know?

SPEAKER_02 23:06

Right. Finally. The work is complete. But so kind of now that Harbinger has sold, the family has sold that business, and that freed you up to just, you know, be like, okay, like I've been building these maybe it's chaos, but it is specific alleyways of chaos. Right. You know, like you have that avenue of art, you're deeply involved in the art scene. Even if you never painted anything again and never had a gallery again, like you're a part of the art community in this town. And so there's that side of you is rich and real. And then this side of you that also loves architecture and buildings and spaces and sees their potential almost become like a canvas in a way for you. So shifting from commercial signage to real estate feels like like a puzzle piece fitting in.

SPEAKER_03 24:06

Oh, yeah. Absolutely. I mean, it's been a really tough transition, honestly, mentally, to get my head around not having the family responsibilities. And then, oh wow, now I can do the stuff that I was always interested in doing, and it's real and it's happening, and I'm doing it. And is that gonna work? Am I gonna be able to do it? And do I even really love that? Or was I doing it just to distract myself, right? So it's been a real big trick of the mind too. And it also just physically getting all of the pieces and the parts of that to work together, sell a family business with a manufacturing plan in it, that has a gallery in it, to buy a building that looks like a gallery that doesn't have a manufacturing component. It's been the trick of my mind, and it's been hard to kind of see the future of that, but it's starting to happen. I mean, I really, really am excited now.

SPEAKER_01 24:54

Your artist statement mentions something about you know environmental concerns. And when most people hear real estate development, they think evil. You know what I mean? So you balance your concern for the I'm not particularly like greenery. I just know it's good. It's a good question.

SPEAKER_03 25:13

It's a good question. I think I I'm more interested in pro Well I don't know. I mean, that's a really good question. I I think we have to all be kind of more concerned about the environment right now. Well, I guess not all of us are, but we it's important to, and as an artist, I think it's our responsibility to, or you know, as an artist, I'm responsible for telling people or showing people something in a different way than they maybe can see it. And if that's you know, taking a building and greening it up a bit or you know, turning it around so that it's not falling down, I yeah, it's super important to me. I mean, it definitely isn't economically smart sometimes, but like it is important, and I think projects enriching projects that you're involved in usually aren't like, oh, we're gonna knock down this block and put up apartments.

SPEAKER_02 26:06

You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 26:07

Like you're usually preserving like Brooklyn with all those true parts.

SPEAKER_02 26:11

But it yeah, your projects usually are around preservation, perform preserving these structures that you are enduring, giving them a fa like showing, like you're saying, reinventing them for people so they can see it another way, so that instead of looking like, oh, why would I get an old building when I can build something new? You realize, like, oh, you can own a piece of history and like this is a beautiful thing that won't exist again. And if you get rid of it, that's blood on your hands.

SPEAKER_03 26:34

And yeah, exactly. And it's also fun just to kind of see the the guts of all these different old buildings around Jacksonville. I mean, our current new building has a strange brick in it that's square. And I thought, wow, this must have just been a unique situation. But then we went to eat at a restaurant down the street, Othello in Springfield, they have the same brick inside of that building on the other side of the neighborhood. So, and I think there's some that I saw downtown recently. So there's just like this history of things that connect the neighborhood and connect the people that I think is important to celebrate, even the smallest things like that, like these bricks, right? I mean, yeah, who cares really? But connects us.

SPEAKER_02 27:13

Yeah, they're like literal artifacts like across their time machines. So you you live in Springfield?

SPEAKER_03 27:19

I work in Springfield. Okay. Yeah, our new place is in Springfield. I live in Five Points.

SPEAKER_01 27:23

Gotcha. All right, that's not really a good question, but I just you mentioned a couple times.

SPEAKER_03 27:28

I'm not telling you where I live.

SPEAKER_01 27:31

So the cross street.

SPEAKER_02 27:34

Okay, so if somebody met you for the first time, had never don't know anything about you, met you at a

Toilet Gallery/Family Business

SPEAKER_02 27:40

party, and they asked, you know, what do you do? Do you identify first as artist or as real estate developer or as gallerist?

SPEAKER_03 27:50

Or I mean that's a really good question. I'm not quite sure. I mean, I always think I'm the artist who is experienced with business, like a nerd. But like I as when I introduced myself, I just I don't really don't know how to introduce myself. I just am an artist. I mean, I think I'm sort of uh of the belief that like everything in life is art, kind of not kind of, but everything in in my life I see as art, right? So I have to organize it, I have to make it better, I have to improve it, and even business. I mean, I I really kind of see that as art. Um, certainly a building, you know. That that's something that I'm gonna be obsessed just improving all the time to make it better, and just like a painting, right? I mean, yeah, I'm gonna take a painting and I'm gonna work on that thing until it's you know balanced and level and good. And I I don't know how to define myself. Thanks.

SPEAKER_01 28:39

Bye. So you have to be ready at a party, you have to say, um, Steve Williams, here's my address, and this is my job, and this is my hobbies. You gotta be ready for that.

SPEAKER_03 28:51

See, I thought my name would take care of all that because it's like Steve Williams, like the FBI shipped me off and changed my name. I mean, I'm not telling you anything. I'm not gonna give you any of my details. Just Google me.

SPEAKER_02 29:02

You'll figure it out. So, Florida mining. Tell tell me a little bit about what inspired you to do that? What made you make the take the leap?

SPEAKER_03 29:12

I mean, honestly, I had not had my own gallery until 2011. And when we bought the family bought this building to put our manufacturing company in, there was a great toilet showroom in the front. And my dad had a great idea, like, you're gonna open a gallery in there. And I, you know, I was like, No, no, I'm not, I'm absolutely not gonna open a gallery. I've been trying for years and I'm done. Yeah, and uh he said, nope, that's what you're gonna do. And you know, so we started designing it, and Rebecca Davison did the interiors, it was incredible. So we just began and we had to come up with a name, and and we were sitting on a Florida mining boulevard, and I love absurdity, so I someone was like, Well, what about Florida Mining Boulevard?

SPEAKER_01 29:55

Such a good name, man.

SPEAKER_03 29:57

Thank you, thank you. At it at the Atlanta Art Fair, we saw an artist, and uh he he was a crazy weirdo. I loved his work so much, and he he dresses up like Southern bat, like battle, southern war kind of uniforms and fights his own story, like he fights himself kind of like he does paintings of it's really hard to explain, but anyway, the point of it was he came around the corner dressed like a revolutionary soldier and stopped as tracks. He was like, What the fuck is the name of that place? And I said Florida Mine, and he goes, I really want to show there, like literally nothing else about us, and just because the name was so weird, yeah, we got a good contact, yeah. Nice, yeah. So we'll do a show for him. But yeah, it was just a matter of something absurd, and we always get phone calls, you know, for like Lime Rock.

SPEAKER_00 30:50

Right.

SPEAKER_02 30:54

But you must have had a pretty guiding vision because you brought a lot of artists from other areas, from Georgia, from southern Florida that I had never been exposed to until you would show them at the Florida Mining Gallery over on Chad.

SPEAKER_03 31:11

I I think a lot of it is a testament to the design of the space. You know, like we were talking about earlier, it's just important to have a quality museum experience in a in a gallery, and that's what we provided, and that's what people responded to. And artists came from everywhere, and we've shown some seriously amazing artists, um, big artists. Uh and and yeah, super proud of that.

SPEAKER_02 31:34

Yeah, and how how did they usually come to you? Like Ibrahim, what's Ibrahim?

SPEAKER_03 31:40

Ibrahim Ibrahim Miranda Ramos. He was, yeah, he was the Cuban national artist, and we met him at graphics studios in Tampa, St. Pete, and he had hundreds of pieces of work laid out. He's a stereographer and he paints and makes prints on top of maps. And really interesting guy, but we didn't know him, walked in the front door, introduced ourselves, instead we had a gallery in Jacksonville, Florida, and he loaded our car up with probably a hundred pieces of art, just trusting, just you know, just like handshake trust. Why do you think sign anything or we didn't do anything?

SPEAKER_01 32:15

We you know why they hit had that trust? It wasn't just the name again, right?

SPEAKER_03 32:20

I don't know. No, we I didn't even Yeah, I don't even he didn't speak English, really. Yeah, yeah, we met and he just liked our he just trusted our look, I guess, or something, and just gave us the work and we're really proud of that.

SPEAKER_02 32:32

But I mean, I think it's just a matter of what I'm really getting to is like it feels to me like yes, you you made a beautiful space, and that makes it easy for people to say, Yeah, I want to show in that space. But the way that they came to that space, I feel like was often because you're out there meeting people like this and finding art like this that's out there, and then meeting the people that do it, and being able to say, Hey, I have a I've got a gallery, right?

SPEAKER_03 32:55

Like Yeah, I I I I love the life of a gallerist. I think it's uh it is enriching and gets you in places that you wouldn't go otherwise. And I mean, I love visiting studios, I think it's a place for innovation, I think it's a place for conversations that we don't ever expect it to be, right? So I mean, just as this is a good example, I mean, open up an art studio and people are gonna start innovating and talking and doing interesting things around it, usually. So I think it's fascinating.

SPEAKER_02 33:21

Yeah. So when the manufacturing when that property went away, Florida mining moved. So it wasn't married to that space, right? So tell me a little bit about the decision to continue it and what it continued to l teach you.

SPEAKER_03 33:42

It was the that was a big challenge, right? I mean, we have this space that is us. I mean, that's how people see us. And then now we're gonna go a little bit more virtual, we're gonna move into a temporary space, and then we're gonna have it under construction while we're moving, and then we're gonna have uh 25 people from the family business work there too around the art that's it was just mad chaos, and we didn't know if we were gonna have it survive. We didn't know if it could survive, and yeah, you know, two years in that little house, it was yeah, like a 3,000 square foot house with a little warehouse in the back, and it was cute and nice and sort of on the museum. We painted everything white, so yeah, yeah, you know, we sort of kept to our theory and our beliefs with that, and and yeah, so from there we we were deciding, you know, are we gonna keep it rolling? Are we gonna be able to get a space that's proper? And uh who can we make that happen? And then and we still didn't know if that was gonna be possible, but we're heading in that direction now.

SPEAKER_02 34:46

So yeah. And then you were shopping around for a while at different like buildings, you had a place in Springfield that you were kind of trying to wrap your vision around and understand like what it needed to be, and you had your eyes on some things in this neighborhood, and I know that you own a couple of things in the neighborhood, but you just recently m pulled a trigger on space that sounds like it's going to house a lot of these different sides of yourself.

SPEAKER_03 35:20

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 35:20

Tell us a little bit about that. I mean, I know there's a studio space in there, and I heard you just now talk about Walnut Street Gallery.

SPEAKER_03 35:28

So So we have yeah, so with all the transition, we had picked up a building that was 10,000 square feet at the corner of Ionia and 8th Street in Springfield, which is an ironic place to open a nice business and a nice gallery, and it's unexpected, and which we we love that part of what we were doing.

SPEAKER_00 35:45

Sure.

SPEAKER_03 35:46

But then we sold the business, and the and the the building was kind of too big, really, didn't fit what we were trying to do, didn't feel right. So we just kept looking around and found a building that we had actually had a contract on a couple years ago and jumped out of because we were nervous about the area. Yeah, and our banker called and said, There's this weird building that we don't really know what to do with, and you're weird. And so, like, maybe you guys could like date or something. Y'all should meet. I was like, of course. I was like, I'll be right there.

SPEAKER_01 36:17

It's just weird that you're in a spreadsheet, and one of the columns is weird, yes or no?

SPEAKER_03 36:23

I'm like, yes. It's a filter thing.

SPEAKER_01 36:27

Normal weird.

SPEAKER_02 36:28

Prospects that are aware. Okay. There's just one.

SPEAKER_03 36:32

My names are on the top.

SPEAKER_01 36:33

Let me give them a call.

SPEAKER_03 36:36

So we go back to this building, and it's like it's so perfect for our vision, minus our family company that we couldn't help get excited about it. And it was gonna go through this auction, so I had to learn how to do this auction work. Yeah, and I'm at the same time getting licensed in real estate, so all of this stuff kind of came together at the same time. Yeah, learned how to do the auctions, we did the auction, we won the auction, and it was really exciting. We got a really good price on it. However, somebody that we know and y'all know was bidding against me and didn't know he was bidding against me, so it went up a little bit, but not too bad because he went to the ball.

SPEAKER_01 37:17

Was a much better deal than had you purchased it two years prior?

SPEAKER_03 37:21

Same deal.

SPEAKER_01 37:22

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 37:22

That is a good deal, except now it's been re-renovated a little bit. So it was even a better deal.

SPEAKER_01 37:27

Yeah, nice.

SPEAKER_03 37:28

Yeah, that's great.

SPEAKER_01 37:29

So what did it used to be? What the building?

SPEAKER_03 37:32

Originally, I don't know. It just says warehouse space, and then when we had a contract on it before it was an antique collector. He wasn't a dealer, I don't think. He just collected it. The thing was full. Like there was at least 345 globes in that place. So he specialized. He had everything in there, and so yeah, it's much better.

SPEAKER_01 37:54

Do you still have those globes?

SPEAKER_03 37:55

I wish, but gotta be around there somewhere.

SPEAKER_01 38:00

There's at least one left in the attic or so.

SPEAKER_02 38:03

Yeah, I want Fitz to make me a backsplash out of those globes. So you got this space, and it has room for a gallery, it has room for your studio, right? It has a big kind of center area, like an atrium type of an area that like feels like it could be real chill.

SPEAKER_03 38:26

Right.

SPEAKER_02 38:26

And then Fitz has a gorgeous office. What else? So, what all is going in there?

SPEAKER_03 38:32

So the theory or the strategy or the plan is gonna be having his concept, the inventory room, in the big front part where his office is, and where his office is now will hopefully become a coffee shop or bagel shop or some kind of like something serving food and coffee because we we just third space kind of thing, right? And we we want to have that anyway, and I think the neighborhood needs it, and it's a great space for that, and so that's the idea. And then Florida mining will be on the other side with a separate entrance ultimately. Right now, it's just gonna be kind of weird for a year until we raise some money, but it's uh it's gonna be beautiful, and so Florida mining will have a space, we'll do exhibitions in there, and we'll do we'll rent the space out as well.

SPEAKER_02 39:19

Oh, nice for events and stuff, right?

SPEAKER_03 39:21

So our our our art sales, artist representation as we used to do it, is is probably gonna change a little bit just because it's a lot of work and not a lot of people are are buying tons of artwork right now, so we have trouble storing a lot of work, it's just a lot, it's a mental game. So with that, we the day after that auction was over, the property right next door went on the market, and we don't have any land at all, like on our building. And so that building has a little bit of land, we could build something on it, and it has two little mini warehouses, and so we have space that we can put artists up. We have a little apartment over there. Oh, there's another space that we can yeah, rent out for photo studio or painting studio or something, and and we can really start thinking about all the stuff we've always wanted to do, like an artist residency, or yeah, I mean, I honestly like Airbnb. I'd like to try to figure that out, and so it'll all be part of the mix of this creative property, you know. I mean, and yeah, and then right down the street, we still have the the Ionia building, and and we have a concept that we're gonna try and figure out how to do to put in there called Ionia Market. And so that would be like a multi-brand kind of space with food and art and makers and you know, interesting entrepreneurs, and and there's 10,000 square feet, so we can we we would love to be able to like mix that up into multi-tenants instead of just renting it to a non-creative entity and calling it a day.

SPEAKER_01 40:54

I don't know all the cross streets in Springfield, but how far apart are these two properties?

The Era of Artist-Run Spaces

SPEAKER_03 41:00

Oh, three blocks.

SPEAKER_01 41:01

Oh, so walkable.

SPEAKER_03 41:02

That's walkable. Yeah, three blocks, and then four blocks north would be Phoenix, one block north is Duval Laundry happening, re-threaded. So right there, and then you know, four blocks south is Unicat with Georgia Noli and the Union Terminal area. So all of a sudden there's like this hub of creative going from Phoenix to Unicat, and we're right in the middle of that. Perfect. Emerald Trail, I think, is gonna also kind of go through there somewhere. Oh, really? Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 41:29

Not sure where it's interesting. You talked about artist-owned spaces, and and we're kind of threading the needle on some of those things, helping me understand. Like I hadn't really thought about these artist-owned spaces and and putting it look, you know, reflecting back on pedestrian and all these gallery stuff that used to happen in Murray Hill. And now, I mean, I feel this is not about you being a landlord in Five Points, but I feel like my Are you secretly evil with my overlearning?

SPEAKER_03 41:59

A lot of people think so.

SPEAKER_02 42:01

My story, like the things that I've the narrative that I've observed in Five Points is like when something like it when it's having a downturn, they'll let anybody do anything, and then people go in there and do things, and it starts the neighborhood starts to come back, and then they're like, Oh, well, let's jack up the rent to get rid of these losers and get some good retailers or froyo places that'll pay their bill on time, and then it slowly becomes not the five points that it was. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_03 42:31

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 42:32

And I wonder if this kind of thinking of this as like a movement of spaces that are artist-owned, operated, uh, centered, more the they're not becoming these corporate institutions that are just trying to get more rent yet. Um but there there are now anchors of y'all that are like part of the community. You know, like like George and Noli, like understand the artist community here and they own that building. You understand the artist community here, and you own that building and this other building. Like, the more of those kind of temples I feel like there are, the more likely it feels like somebody can build something there that they know that they're building something that might still be there in five years.

SPEAKER_03 43:21

Yeah. Yeah. I'm absolutely I think it's really exciting when people can own their own space and develop their own space. And but you know, I don't think any any of the developers are out there going, let's get these losers out of here and raise the rent. No one is doing that. No one, no one is, and it's just all about what makes sense at the time, what kind of mix there is going on in the community.

SPEAKER_02 43:40

I think frankly, the infighting that happens between vendors and like all there's so many algorithmic effects that make those things tricky. Yeah. But it is always the assumption, right? Everyone's like, oh, they just want to make more money, and so they kicked out the guy I love.

SPEAKER_03 43:57

I that's what people say. And what I think as a business person is that if I'm the low rent payer doing a local small project, I want to grow, I I want to grow my business to what's happening around me. So say I'm, you know, Concept X and next door West Down moves in. I'm paying $5 a square foot for rent, they start paying $60 a square foot for rent. This is not out of the question of what's happening in our neighborhood right now.

SPEAKER_02 44:23

Right, right.

SPEAKER_03 44:24

And so if I'm a smart business person, I'm gonna hustle and learn how to grab the business of the people that are coming to these more expensive places. And I think Jacksonville has a lot to learn to support the young business people, and we don't do a good job at it at all. It's very hard for small projects, it's very hard for small business, it's impossible to jump through the hoops. And I know a lot of great people are working. Working on it now and it feels like it's changing a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 44:51

But why do you attribute the lack of support for the young business owners? What you were doing?

SPEAKER_03 44:56

I feel like someone needs to say it. That you got you support. Or prove it. Just yeah, like, hey, we're gonna support you. We're gonna say that you need support and we're actually gonna support you. Like we're gonna give you five thousand dollars to st keep your business rolling, you know. Right. I think at one point there were some statistics in Austin, and I don't know if this is true, like exactly right, but Austin, Texas, maybe 15 years ago, I heard they 95% of all of their small businesses were successful. 95% of anybody who opened was successful there because they they had this program or people that because Austin draws.

SPEAKER_02 45:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 45:34

So if you can keep up, but back then, no, right. Back then it was just no one knew about it. It wasn't cool yet. It wasn't you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 45:41

It was like wait, there was a time Austin wasn't cool.

SPEAKER_03 45:44

Oh yeah. I didn't know it used to be I don't know, you know, or was that when I wasn't cool?

SPEAKER_01 45:49

Which is usually but also you know, it used to be people said like I don't know, 75% of new companies fold within the first year, so 95%. That's a lot.

SPEAKER_03 46:04

And I think those small projects are what enriches a city, and and it's great what's happening here right now. I love what's happening in Jacksonville, like even with the gateway folks and all the Pearl Square stuff, they're working hard to bring small concepts to that. Wolf and Cub is going in, which is incredible. You know, they're keeping some local concepts and local things on their plate and celebrating them.

SPEAKER_02 46:29

Walk it back a second. What are all these? I know Wolf and Cub. Everything else that you said, I have no idea what that is.

SPEAKER_03 46:34

Pearl Square.

SPEAKER_02 46:35

What's the gateway and yeah, Pearl Square?

SPEAKER_03 46:38

So Gateway Jacks, they're they're developing the northwest quadrant of downtown Jacksonville.

SPEAKER_02 46:43

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 46:43

And they're building, they're getting vertical. There's cranes over there, they've got apartments, they've got condos, they've got boutique hotels.

SPEAKER_02 46:50

There's a big is it like like they got rid of some abandoned buildings and they're putting a whole campus there? Or how is it? Yeah, I know this isn't your project. I just have this is like exciting. But I have never really gotten the detail. I think you even showed me a rendering one time.

SPEAKER_03 47:06

I would love to take you on a tour. It's really exciting if you haven't driven over there. So there's the old Stanton School, that's gonna be a food hall, I guess, with a chef-driven kind of owner, from what I understand. There's uh the old Richmond Hotel is being redeveloped, and that's where the the Chitland Trail going there or the heritage trail. I'm not sure what it's called. But that's being developed right there by Arthur White Mission. And then down the street, Gateway Jacks has bought uh most of the old Baptist church buildings and part, at least all the parking garages, and they're they're putting the largest Publix in Florida in one of in the old, like the old church. What was it called?

SPEAKER_01 47:45

First Baptist, right?

SPEAKER_03 47:46

Homer Lindsay Church thing. Like it's gonna be a Publix.

SPEAKER_02 47:49

The Homer Down.

SPEAKER_01 47:49

Yeah, I saw that because I don't know anything about the thing. Homer Dome, is that the name you really but that building, it uh it's not brutalist, but it's like got very small windows, and I'm like, that doesn't look like a Publix, man, but it's all connected to the church and stuff. So I want to see that's gonna be interesting to see how that things out.

SPEAKER_03 48:05

Yeah, and then right down from there is a Pearl Square where they're gonna have like retail and restaurants, and I mean they've got people coming in, like Indigo Road uh restaurant group from Charleston. They're doing a few restaurant concepts. They're doing Oak Steakhouse, they're doing they have Oku at the beach already, but they're doing in Dako somewhere. They're doing a new concept in what's gonna be called the Merydale Hotel in the same area, which is a boutique hotel, Marriott. And then there's the June Social Club that's right in the middle of all that, that's opening in September.

SPEAKER_01 48:38

Are you at every city council meeting? Because you know everything that's going on. Or you could just be making all this up and we're just swallowing it, you know.

SPEAKER_03 48:48

That's what people think I do in Texas.

SPEAKER_02 48:51

No, you are really tapped into this. Like your algorithms must be really dialed in. That's impressive.

SPEAKER_03 48:57

I mean, one of the reasons we're going where we're going is because all of that's happening right there. I mean, we wouldn't we wouldn't be putting this kind of effort in if we didn't think it was gonna pop.

SPEAKER_02 49:04

And is there gonna be enough froyo?

SPEAKER_03 49:08

Uh if you open, if you open Wendell.

SPEAKER_02 49:10

I think somebody needs to do a froyo taco spot. Froyo taco.

SPEAKER_01 49:14

You've got let's do it. I don't know. Okay, yeah. We'll call it Flo yo. Hello from Florida. Wait, flow yo too. Perfect.

SPEAKER_02 49:26

When can the public come and when can they when can we book the Airbnb? Are you gonna is it gonna be like a canvas for Fitz? Is he gonna make every season he's gonna redo the Airbnb in a new that'd be fun, wouldn't it? Yes.

SPEAKER_03 49:37

If everybody comes and buys enough stuff, we can do that.

SPEAKER_02 49:41

He'll get like a regular House Beautiful spread, like every time. Or you could just get the artists to that stay there for the residencies, so it'll show up on their instas, you know.

SPEAKER_03 49:52

Yeah, we're excited about that actually. We're really excited about having artists. We're the first show is gonna be Jason Brown, who's from Jacksonville, and an artist from Houston, which I don't really know uh the whole name. I'm sorry, there's like a bunch of names. This is like five names.

SPEAKER_02 50:07

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_03 50:08

Mexican guy, I believe. And I'm I'm still learning about him, so I can't really talk too much.

SPEAKER_02 50:12

But when's that gonna be?

SPEAKER_03 50:13

October.

unknown 50:14

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 50:14

So we're committed for that in October. And then our schedule, then we're gonna behind the even if you just hire people to hold the work. Right, exactly. We might be on the street, but we'll be sure. They'll be here. We might be in the Airbnb show and work.

SPEAKER_02 50:27

Right. Okay, go outside real quick. Reset.

SPEAKER_03 50:30

Two people at a time. But but after that, we're gonna do an alumni show. So anybody who's ever shown with us, pedestrian or Florida mining, we're going to invite to do sort of like Florida ceiling, just drop your piece off and kind of highlight and celebrate everybody who's been cool, you know, like a retrospective in a way. Right. Sort of just you know, highlighting all the stuff that we've done over the years, I think. Yeah, we've that'll be really fun.

SPEAKER_02 50:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 50:56

And then behind that, we just we're building our program now.

SPEAKER_02 50:59

So cool. And so the common area you said you're gonna try to find like, you know, a bagel or coffee kind of vendor, so it makes it into kind of a hangout space. It'll obviously also be an automatic like showroom, I imagine, for some of Fitz's stuff and some of the art.

SPEAKER_03 51:15

Yeah, so the inventory room is an online catalog of interior products and stuff that he collects or he finds or he curates, and that's a project on its own. So this is gonna be the brick and mortar spot for the inventory room. And the inventory room has like his homemade can his handmade candles, yeah. And we're gonna have some other products that he makes that are incredible, and then he'll rep some products that are new, and then he also has been taking vintage things and putting you know fine fabrics on them and redoing a lot of furniture. So it'll have furniture and lighting and candles, and it'll be a home, it'll be a beautiful uh we want it to be sort of a household name eventually, you know. And the name suits it, the inventory room. Yeah, it's it's just simple and and nice, and and the space really is gonna highlight it and give him a platform to to really do it this time.

SPEAKER_02 52:09

Yeah. And of course, he'll also run Fitz Pullens Interiors out of there, right? Or is that becoming part of inventory room?

SPEAKER_03 52:17

Or is it Kai's kind of become like a one business kind of like he's doing some design work and some product development, and it's just kind of all one thing. But his his practice is Fitz Pullens Interiors, right?

SPEAKER_02 52:30

We should when when you guys get closer to like opening to the public, we should get fitts in here. Absolutely. Yeah, he would love it. Yeah, it'd be fun. If we're all in here, we'll laugh it up too.

SPEAKER_03 52:40

Yeah, definitely.

SPEAKER_01 52:40

If the ACQUER still be hot in September, won't it? Oh yeah, yeah, it'll be worse. I forgot, I don't know why I asked that. I was like, it'll be hot until October, man.

SPEAKER_03 52:51

We'll see in December. Yeah. Oh well.

SPEAKER_02 52:56

Yeah, let's uh so

Buy Art, Go to Museums

SPEAKER_02 52:57

this is where we get to the kind of final two final two questions of your test. So far, you're doing really good. Okay, what you miss about Jacksonville? What's something you loved about Jacksonville that's gone now?

SPEAKER_03 53:13

Oh my goodness. I think I mean there's been so many concepts that are amazing here that are gone. I mean like the landing. The landing. You said it. That could have been great. But anyway, yeah. I think I really love the focus that everybody's putting on the river. You know, I I think that that's but the having the landing gone is definitely a something that I miss. There's a lot of clubs that were cool, you know, Metropolis, Milk Bar, Voodoo Lounge. I mean, all you know, the list goes on and on. And the people that did them are still around and it's incredible history. I think One Spark is the biggest thing that I think of that I missed that could have been really the thing that put Jackson Mo on the map internationally. We we almost did.

SPEAKER_01 54:00

Was that another 9-11 or COVID? One Spark? Yeah, I mean, I remember it was like a downtown fire. I think what killed it.

SPEAKER_03 54:08

Oh.

SPEAKER_02 54:09

Oh, uh no, it kind of just felt imploded. I think it's killed it. The funding that drove it, I think, dried up.

SPEAKER_01 54:16

I remember I mean, and I don't get involved in a lot, but I remember going downtown seeing like you know, DJs and musicians. And most of the people there's around metal bikes and shit.

SPEAKER_03 54:25

Yeah, it was wild, wasn't it? That was kind of cool. I think there were internal problems that nobody really probably knows about that shut it down, but also I feel like there wasn't like it was so spread out, like the prize money was so little. All everybody's working for the like a little bit of prize money when in fact prize gives like two hundred and fifty thousand dollars for one artist. Yeah, that would have I think that would have sustained it if they would have had bigger prizes for less people and yeah, just had something over the top.

SPEAKER_01 54:54

I forgot about that. So, how did do you remember how it worked? Like, was it like voting? Yeah, God, I forgot about that piece of it.

SPEAKER_03 55:02

Crowd voting. That was weird. Yeah, yeah, it was it was you think they'll ever do that again, or no? It's I don't think they will. I don't think they will.

SPEAKER_02 55:09

But I think that it was a good proof of concept, right? That like people have ideas that they'll come out to like see ideas, share ideas. It's a small project idea.

SPEAKER_03 55:20

I mean, the whole idea was to develop small projects, you know, like and innovate with concepts and ideas and tech and uh art.

SPEAKER_02 55:29

And it and although I don't know of a whole lot of businesses that are still going that like got their start there, I do know of a bunch of like creatives and people that I met through that. That I mean, even like just Dennis and Varick, like we should have them on um to talk about OneSpark and like you guys made this amazing thing. Like, what happened? It'd be interesting to hear.

SPEAKER_01 55:50

That's a good one, OneSpark. Man, I haven't thought about that in a while. And I will tell you that I the place I lived when that was going on. I was renting a room and there was just just everyone used to park on the street because it was just an open green area. And one morning I woke up and I said, you know, I'm gonna buy these. They were at a school bus and they were like they were doing electronic music at the thing, and I bought them like some vegetarian stuff from whatever used to be where food dog is now. There was like some kind of rush. Yeah, that's what it was. Yeah, and I bought them just some, and so I said, Hey, I bought you guys some food, and they took it and they were very, you know, and then I came back later that night drunk as shit, banging on the bus door, said, Hey hippies, waking up. Just they just I was like, they just turned and burned, like nothing because like you know, I was trying to open the door all drunk, like, no, I bought you the omelet, you know. Back to party, but I might have ended one spark. I don't know. I haven't thought about that. I think I heard that somewhere, yeah. Local madman ends one spark. All right, what's the next question? Or is that is that the last one?

SPEAKER_02 57:08

No, yeah, there's one more. So tell us the next one's like it's like what we're missing in Jacksonville.

SPEAKER_03 57:14

I think we're missing a lot of connectivity here. I think everyone is all over the place. No one has any any kind of connection to like everyone's running their own individual silo, and it just seems like there needs to be some leadership that connects the different communities and the different groups and different people because I've never seen a or I don't I think everybody would say this. Jacksonville is a an place for individuals. I mean, it's not a place to develop a project or you're not talking about Instagram collabs, like group chats. Love a group chat, love a good group chat.

SPEAKER_02 57:49

We should all just get all these people on a text thread.

SPEAKER_01 57:52

Just get the biggest chat.

SPEAKER_03 57:54

But do you think that's part of your inspiration for doing all the stuff you're doing to kind of absolutely I mean when we saw Phoenix, we saw Unicat, we saw Union Terminal, we saw Duval Laundry Re-Threaded, you know, the district. What else can I name? That's inspiring. I mean, it's just like really a lot of things happening right there. And then right below that is Pearl Square and the June Club and downtown. And it's just it just seems like this is the time that we all need to be pushing to create something like vicinity-wise, even closer to each other. And the other thing that I think is missing here is a real good collector base, right? People like understanding how to collect art or wanting to collect art or thinking that that's important. I think a lot of people in Jacksonville should need to be educated that you know, if we go out and we collect art, it's the smallest community nationally that hears about that. So as soon as artists start selling work, they're saying we're selling work in Jacksonville. People are buying work in Jacksonville. And it's a real economy that we're we're creating. When we buy one painting, just a $200 painting or a $500 painting, it doesn't have to be tens of thousands of dollars. I mean, we can really make an impact nationally marketing ourselves, creating a special place, bringing some enrichment just by having this work economically move. And uh, I think it's super important and it's missing here.

SPEAKER_02 59:14

Yeah. Love that. That's a great call to action, I think.

SPEAKER_01 59:18

Especially like I never thought of that. But I do buy a little bit of local art, but it's like once every five years.

SPEAKER_03 59:24

Who buy like a hundred dollar painting a year? I mean, I would I do that, you know, over tithing, honestly. That's why I tithe. I just buy art. So I try to like hit that number, you know, like yeah.

SPEAKER_02 59:35

So one last question. What is something around here, something that people in Jacksonville can have access to that they probably don't know about, or someplace you go to kind of reset or to get inspired, or you know, I want a location that's accessible to people in Jacksonville that you love.

SPEAKER_03 59:55

Okay. We have an amazing museum system.

SPEAKER_02 59:58

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 59:58

Mocha, comer, yeah, mosh when it comes back. I mean, it's an amazing museum system, and those are very well respected museums. You know, and there's more in Jacksonville. It's just I think Jacksonville's full of and I think the water, you know, I think that's a a place where everyone needs to spend more time in Jacksonville thinking about concepts and how we all enjoy it better. And so yeah. Thank you so much. Thank you. Excellent fun. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:25

Always great to catch up with you, but I'm glad that we got to have this conversation. We do.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:29

Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:31

Sweet. You don't have to run out the door unless you're late. No, I'm not.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:35

I'm not. I thought I thought Will was running out.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:37

Uh he like he gets nervous after it's been an hour.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:41

I do get yeah, no, I'm like, okay, man.