Born in Prison, Son of a Bad Man

In today's episode I interview Lee Marvin Hitchman, who was born in a prison and taken into care as a baby. He explains the terrible reputation of his birth father Eric Rogers - which includes supposedly taking part in the killing of PC Keith Blakelock in the Broadwater Farm riots in 1985 - and recounts how his dad had bragged about forcing women into taking drugs and going on the game. We go into a bit of detail about how Eric was killed in his flat in 2024 but ended on a brighter note, talking about how Marvin turned his own life around.     

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 1:02

But um well he's Marvin's dad, Marvin's birth dad, and he will explain in great detail what uh Eric told him and what sort of person Eric was and how he and his birth mother sort of abandoned him as a child. Um and I'm gonna get straight into the interview, but I will come back at the end and explain what happened to the killers of Eric Rogers. I'm on the phone here with um Lee Marvin Hitchman. Now let's start off by you telling me the story of how you were born, uh who your birth parents were, and how you come to get your your full name.

SPEAKER_01 1:42

I will indeed. So my name is Lee Marvin Hitchman, and I was born in HMP Style Prison, which is a prison in in Cheshire, uh north of England. Um my mum was Greek Cypriot and my dad was Afric of African descent. Um my mum was in Holloway prison when I was when I when she was pregnant with me, and she tried to escape, or she escaped, I'm not sure which. They transferred her up north. Um so I was born in style in distress, um, and I was um a distressed little child when I was born, very distressed.

SPEAKER_03 2:22

Um is that because she was on drugs at the time or I think it might have been, you know.

SPEAKER_01 2:29

Yeah, it just says born in distress, you know, so you you can't really read into that, but you do read into that born in distress needs problems, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_03 2:39

Yeah, but it it could have been, you know, yeah, because you were um you know, uh sometimes if a mother is the mother is on heroin or whatever at the time of birth, you know, that's yeah, it was one of those little pregnancies as well where you don't have a normal pregnancy, um what's it called?

SPEAKER_01 2:55

A bis um a cesarean.

SPEAKER_03 2:57

Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:57

I was I was born by a cesarean as well, and it does say on the on my birth certificate on my papers, born in distress. And I never knew what that meant. It was very intriguing to me, you know. Um when when I was when I got now I realise, but back then when I was a kid, I mean, so what happened was is with my my adoption is my mum got my dad was in prison as well at the same time as my mum. Um but my mum when she was speaking to the probation service when she was due to be released, she didn't name my dad, she named a different man. Um it's quite interesting. She said my dad's name was Martin and he was a musician. So when I met this other guy who came along, he certainly wasn't a musician, um, it kind of was shocking, but yeah. Um my mum told the adoption services that the probation service that he was called Martin, and um she would she was in for a theft charge and she didn't want to give me away. She was very unsure whether to sign me away or not. I mean, her age, her age and an immaturity shines through when you ask questions, which she did, such as when I give him away, can I send him Christmas cards and birthday cards and stuff like that? Will he receive them? You know what I mean? Which is quite naive to think. You know, they're telling you that you're signing your baby away. Um I later learned that she was told that I was being given away to two doctors, so that probably would have made her, you know, sound quite appetited to her, do you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_03 4:28

Um you you I I understand you also think that uh because your your dad was black and you th you think your mum, her parents were kind of pretty racist, or that you know, they were strange.

SPEAKER_01 4:42

I think it was more religion. I think it was all very, very religion, you know. Um that's uh, you know, the north um Greek North London, Greek Cypriot religion, you know. I know we don't need to say which one it is, but they're very, very, you know, very strict and very you know, they've very family oriented, let's say. So, you know, you can just imagine the turmoil if um a black baby dropped into a a household of Greek Cypriots with six daughters, which there was it was six girls and a couple of boys, you know. So um I certainly wasn't gonna be told to be going there, and my mum indicated to somebody that if she brought a black baby home um she would be killed, uh her and the baby would be killed. Um so that was a no-no as well.

unknown 5:35

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 5:35

So yeah, that was a struggle for me from the start, then wasn't it?

SPEAKER_03 5:39

Yeah, you you were taken into a care, and then I'm gonna really sort of fast forward over your sort of childhood. I know you had a very difficult childhood with um you know, abuse.

SPEAKER_01 5:50

Um but if we for now sort of sort of fast forward through that to uh you know, when you you became an adult, um when was it you met your your birth parents or so I met my birth parents in my mid I met my birth family, I should say, in my mid-40s. So what it was is I was going through intense therapy with um an adoption service, you know, like counselling and stuff. Yeah, because I was on because I was on drugs, it didn't really water open my adoption file because I was an addict, you know. So um I had to fight to get clean. One of the many reasons why I wanted to get clean, but yeah, um, so I thought to get clean, but the counsellor kept the lady kept saying to me, and I had the same woman for many years, and she kept saying to me, it's not always a happy ending at the end of the rainbow. And I just push it off. I didn't listen to what she meant. So I fair again, she used to say to me, There's not always a happy ending at the end of the rainbow. But I'd think, oh, I'm going to meet my mum. What what what can go wrong? You know what I mean? Um I knew she was only dead young when she had me, so she gets she's gotta be, you know, and uh so I was built up to my adoption file being opened. She said to us one day, coming on a Wednesday, I've gone in jumping around, waiting, hoping that this file contained my mum's details. She opened the file and it was one piece of paper in it. And she gave me that piece of paper and I've looked in it and shook my head in disbelief, and it was my mum's death certificate. So sadly my mum had already been gone, my mum was already dead.

SPEAKER_03 7:33

So that plunged me.

SPEAKER_01 7:36

How many years before had that happened or that was my mid my mid-40s, but what he said to me was, is we've we've got information on your birth family, your birth mum's family. Um I was one of thousands of kids who I what happened is once they find you you find that your mum's gone, you don't really search any further. But luckily for me, I appealed a case one day and I sat with a manager and had a telephone meeting with her, and she appealed my case for me, and she got me through to my birth mum's sisters. So when I met my birth mum's sisters on my very first visit, they come with this black man who I think just drove them to um up to Manchester, um, and me and my partner are sat there um hooking my aunties and stuff like that. When we get to we got we go round the corner to this local little boozer on the canal, you know, to have something to eat and relax and stuff, get all the the farm out of the office, and uh the black guy goes over to my partner and says to her, hey Love, Army's dead. So she uh did he uh sorry, just uh did he have a like a London accent rather than you know very, very strong landing accent like that.

SPEAKER_03 8:57

Right.

SPEAKER_01 8:57

So he said, Hey hey, hey Love, Army's dead. So it was like okay, so she came to me and said, That's your dad. And I looked over at him and I thought, I knew it was he looked like me, you know, you could just tell. And there were similarities to his cheeks and his muscles and his face, and he just he was just in a t-shirt and a pair of jeans, and he was a bit hot and a bit sweaty and stuff, and I went outside with him and like said, Oh, how are you doing? and that's how's your life and he's just like, Oh me, I'm just like uh nothing's changed, me. I'm a bit well known in London, I'm a bit of a madman, uh I've got a big reputation. This is what he's telling me on my first ever meeting, and then um I phone, his phone rings and he says to me, Um, I hear him start talking on the phone, and I don't know what to say to my buddy's just met him. Next minute he starts talking about this deal with his Valium with this lad saying, Yeah, I'll be his Valium for like three pounds each, make sure you mold him for me, right? I'll be in London later on tonight, make sure you save him, I'll be down there like one of them. So, like me off the when he got off the phone to start a conversation, have something to say. I said to him, Oh, I can get them, Valium, they're cheap on Betty New Road, which is a copycat, um, where they do all the fake clothes and all the fake tablets and all that, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:13

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 10:13

To start a conversation, it's shut down now. This was many years ago, they like copycat fit in there, strange race prison. And I just said to him about a conversation, oh, we can buy them tablets in Betty New Road, dirty. And he swung to me, and oh, can you sad? Can you sad? Can you get me some? Can you get me some? And he mired us to get him these tablets. Now, I went down to buy them and they cost me 30 quid. I'm on the way, I had my bike, I rid a bicycle down, and he had 20 pounds left in my pocket. And as I read up the road, the 20 pounds vanished out of my pocket. And I knew, I thought to myself, yeah, if he's talking to me here, telling me that this is not gonna go while you expect it. But he's my burning me for the tablets every time he phones, he's going, Oh, how are you? Oh, did you get them tablets? Did you get them? And then in the end, I told him I got him the tablets to Valium. So we get him, he um, I get to London, me and my me and my partner go, and my auntie's got a big compound, a beautiful house next to a railway station near Pittsburgh Park. So we're in the big compound in the garden. My auntie's in the house, so me and my partner have sat there with him, and he sits there and he goes, he he he gets these tablets and he goes, Oh, nice one, let's thank you there, like didn't give me no, didn't give me offer me no money for him, bear in mind he'd been saying to me, Oh, I've got you the money, I'll pay you the dot what did he cost you. Don't worry, I'll give you 20 quid on top. As soon as he's giving the medication, he didn't give me a bead. He just went, oh nice one, nice one, and then went, yeah, and then went into the toilet, must have took some of these tablets, sat there and had a couple of drinks and started going, you know, when I was younger, I used to put, not even when I was younger when you know what I used to put guns to women's heads and force them on the game.

SPEAKER_02 11:51

And I used to put, force them to inject heroin and put them on and make turn them into prostitutes.

SPEAKER_01 11:57

I mean, me and my partner have sat there.

SPEAKER_02 12:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:00

Now, I've got my book out born in prison, but my partner's got her own story, what's featured on um uh real big stories and insulted stories. She's done a few massive um channels, and um she's been through a hell of a time, my partner. She's been attacked more or less twice, really, really seriously. So she's listening to my dad telling us that he batters women and he beats them up and he forces them to do things and he gets them to do what he wants. And um, she just gets up in disgust and goes, What? And just walks off, pushes the table a bit.

SPEAKER_03 12:39

Can't blame her.

SPEAKER_01 12:41

Yeah, I didn't blame her myself. She got up and walked up in disgust. And I went, he the first thing he said to me was, Oh, bloody hell, I don't shouldn't have really said that, shouldn't I? And so I've heard I thought, wow, and I went, you know what, you need to go home or something, you need to go get some sleep or something. And what happened was is he uh my auntie said, you know, the best thing to do is get a DNA test, you know, to clear the air so we can start again, type thing. So we said, right, let's have a DNA test. Come to the office Tuesday, we'll buy the we'll buy the thing, the DNA kit. You come to the office, both of you come to the office at two o'clock, and we'll do the DNA. This is my auntie, so we said, right. So before we got to the office that morning, me and my partner and I were chatting our ears up, and we didn't speak to each other. Um we went to this park just before we went to the office, and I could feel the heaviness in the air, like something wasn't gonna go right, like we expected again. I get there at two o'clock and waiting after two, three, four, five, half five comes along. My auntie gets on the phone, rings him, has a few words with him. He gets on the phone to me and he goes, So what it is is this bird's got a parcel inside, and I and she's coming off a plane now from Amsterdam or somewhere, he said, and she can't get the parcel out, and I've got to be there for her to come off this flight to get this parcel out of her, um, this smuggling thing. And I thought, he's either the biggest bullshitter in the world or this man's life is so messed up with drugs. Yeah, he cannot see he has got his firstborn son who he abandoned as a baby, who's come to look for him, come travel to London to come and speak to him, and this man hasn't got a minute for him.

unknown 14:34

Do you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 14:35

And he didn't have time for me at all. And he told me he was due some money, or I've got some big money coming soon, there, there, there. And I wasn't interested. Money's not money's obviously money's a lot. Money wasn't the my goal, you know. What did family? Do you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_03 14:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:52

Um, I've never had family, I'm an orphan. Can I can I've been in an orphanage.

SPEAKER_03 14:56

Can I just ask you about his family? So he'd obviously stayed close to sorry, what was your mum's name?

SPEAKER_01 15:03

Um Martha.

SPEAKER_03 15:04

Okay. He'd stayed close to Martha's sisters all those years.

SPEAKER_01 15:10

He did, yes. So the last time they said the last time they saw him was at my mum's funeral 15 years before.

SPEAKER_03 15:17

Okay, right. But they always knew he was your dad or Yeah, he claimed me from minute one. Right.

SPEAKER_01 15:24

So when I met him, he said to me, Oh, I used to give your mum loads of shit. I used to call her every name under the sun for giving you away. Like telling me like he was proud. But I wasn't happy with him telling me this. I wanted to just punch his head and tell you the truth. I thought, how dare you tell me that you treated my mum so bad? Because I never went looking for my dad. I just told you my dad turned up unexpectedly with my two aunties. I if I knew my dad was alive in London, I wouldn't have gone looking for my dad. I would have just left him to his own devices no matter what. Because I'd never held the that respect for my dad because as when I was born, if he cared, he would have got me kept. It's as simple as that. Do you know what I mean? That's how I look at it. He had a second chance to make another he had a second chance with me as an adult, and he let me down big time.

SPEAKER_03 16:18

And can I I just ask you about your uh you you met you I think you've met your sort of half brothers and stuff. Um and some of them have told you about some of the things he used to clay he used to brag about. And one of them, you know, Keith Blake.

SPEAKER_01 16:33

My mum never had any more children. My mum never had any more children.

SPEAKER_03 16:37

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 16:37

Um my mum died uh before she was fifty, um, tragically. Um but my dad um he he had the boy ten years after me. Um but also when I met him he told me this weird story about him finding this dead baby and he was on drugs and he was in this drug den and he was all taking drugs together. I don't think he was with my mum and um he was all smashed out the head, he said. He was all smashed in this house and this someone's baby was in a cot in the in the in the house, he said uh he said, Oh the baby I I looked down and the baby I picked the baby up, but when he used his hand movement, it was as though he picked the baby up by the ankles, you know that movement, like you get your hand and you kind of grasp it, yeah?

SPEAKER_02 17:25

Yeah.

unknown 17:26

So we did that movement with his arm.

SPEAKER_01 17:28

He went, Yeah, picked up the baby, and the baby was blue and cold. So uh and the baby was dead, right? And this is how he said he said to me, his exact words to me were you're lucky you didn't come to London with us, because you'd have with me, because you'd have been dead or with us with me. You're lucky you didn't come to London anyway, you'd have been dead. I was like, what do you mean? And he went, Well then he told me this story, and he went, that would have been you. That was his exact words. Yeah? I'm a right heart. Yeah, I'm right hi, kid.

SPEAKER_03 18:03

And and he was and he was referring to your sister, is that is that right?

SPEAKER_01 18:07

No, well well, later on, so what happened was is um when I found out when when I found out he was dead, um I'd found out the same day my dad died, my real my adoptive dad, funny enough, um what happened was is I went to contact someone in in in London who's kind of fell out with me, one of my birth mum's sisters. Um and she's kind of fell at me all of a sudden, it's so trivial, it's untrue. But so when I told them that my dad, my adoptive dad had died, she said to me quite callously, um, by the way, you you're your your real dad's dead as well. And I was like, What? She went, Well, go and look in the paper. And um so I looked in the news and he'd been he'd been killed uh a few months before, which I never knew about.

SPEAKER_03 19:04

And this was that was that was March twenty twenty four, so it would have been Yeah, March twenty twenty four.

SPEAKER_01 19:11

But I was contacting um this person in like October when my adoptive dad had died, and then she told me, Oh, by the way, your dad died a few months ago. He was you'll have to look in the news, and then I found out he was he'd been murdered. So and I see I read in the press that he had a police liaison officer dealing with the family. So I contacted the police liaison officer and um she told me that my she told me that his son was dealing with his case and um I contacted this guy, wanted a DNA test with him, um, had a DNA test with him. It turned out he is he is Eric's son, um, so he's my half-brother. Um but we tried to build a a relationship but um it didn't it didn't work out sadly.

SPEAKER_03 20:09

Okay, I'm gonna ask you about the about your your birth father's death in a minute, but um just before I get to that, I w I understand you you have heard that he bragged about uh killing PC Blakelock or being among the the mob.

unknown 20:27

Indeed.

SPEAKER_01 20:28

He what he did indeed. He he bragged. He bragged all his life, he was uh one of the mob that killed um that poor police officer in London and them riots. Um I'm quite disgusted when I even say it, it breaks my heart to even say it to tell you the truth. Um what a what a terrible thing to happen to that man. I mean they they beat him and left a a knife in his skull up to the hill.

unknown 20:55

Do you know that? Um when when he did that to that man.

SPEAKER_01 21:00

Um and my my little brother, who I met my half brother, he kept telling me that his dad used to always bring knives home and he he he named him after a warrior because like that's how my dad was so like violent and run fought violent patterns and was a very violent man.

SPEAKER_03 21:22

Can I just talk to you about the money he got, the the compensation and how he blew it all on on drugs?

SPEAKER_01 21:28

Sure, sure. So yeah, he he got um£180,000 compensation. Um didn't even phone knew I had his grandson, knew I was his son, didn't even phone me, didn't contact me, didn't say yeah, he's a grand, didn't phone anyone around me and say there's some money for him. Um very must have been a very, very selfish man with his money. That's all I can say from that respect. From my part anyway. But yeah, he was abused in the care home. Um and the care only suffered hell in that care role. So we deserved that money, you know what I mean. I didn't expect anything of him. It's not my money. It was his decision. He's to do what he pleased with it, you know what I mean? But it shows the clip of him, him not giving his son or his grandson anything, you know.

SPEAKER_03 22:18

And then what what well what I've learnt about him during the during the trial was uh that he he lived in this quite tiny little flat in um Enfield. I mean it was apparently it was only one bedroom and he'd actually rented out the bedroom to this guy Anthony Elliott.

SPEAKER_01 22:38

So he didn't rented the bedroom out so he had that tiny little room to himself.

SPEAKER_03 22:42

I mean he he probably did it illegally, probably sort of subcont uh he stayed in the uh in the lounge and the the kitchen most of the time and uh let this guy have the bedroom.

SPEAKER_02 22:57

Um but yeah, it was it was basically a both heterogeneics weren't there.

SPEAKER_03 23:01

Yeah, that's right. He he basically loads of people would come round and they would mu know that there was always drugs on tap there. Yeah, so what we what we heard is is that he he was he was you know killed in a quite a brutal fashion, stabbed in the neck.

SPEAKER_01 23:15

Very brutal fashion indeed, yeah. I think that was just the way he wanted to die, though he always told me well he'd always told his people, like the people his people have told me since that he always wanted to die by a gun and a knife. So he always wanted to die that way. And I mean going back to the the murder of the police officer as well, um even some of my obscure family members knew about it. When I mentioned it said, yeah, we'd heard already. We'd heard about it already, you know, and they're from a different girl of this, so I don't know how well known this story in London is. It could be everyone knows everyone who knows him knows about him, a PC Blakelock case.

SPEAKER_03 23:56

Okay, right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:57

So I think I think it I think there's a lot of people in London who know a lot who don't want to open up that kind of word, if you understand.

SPEAKER_02 24:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:04

But I think it's um I think it's something what my dad definitely needs to be looked at again for because you know, all his life him claiming to be involved and he how violent a man he was and what type of man he was, and how he treated people all his life. I mean, even the the the judge in the case said he was a very violent man if it you know, if I'm not correct. He's got to have a history of violence.

SPEAKER_03 24:26

Yeah, there there's also um quite an irony. I mean, maybe like you say, it's maybe it's karma the way he died, because it appears that the motive was that he he'd been hassling this Ellie Ackhurst. You know, I think he'd been he'd been basically sort of saying, you know, if you have sex with me, I'll give you I'll give you some drugs.

SPEAKER_01 24:45

Or um I think she says, she actually says when she's talking that she's a crackhead. Now you would it'll just miss it slip by you this what she says. She says she's a crackhead, she prefers crack, but smack's just like if she can't get anything else now. With a crackhead, uh heroin and crack are two different drugs on the scale, extreme scale. Cocaine keeps you awake all night and all day. Do you understand that?

SPEAKER_03 25:17

Yeah, she did say that she did say that. And that heroin would make her more vulnerable, you know.

SPEAKER_01 25:23

Exactly. So heroin was the one what was knocking her out and making her sleeper. And she did say that she was being fed heroin a lot, like she would have been up for days.

unknown 25:32

Do you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 25:34

Um and uh she did one of them claimed that he tried to do something to her. Um and you know, when when you get to listen to the man's history and his past and his previous convictions and what he's done with his life.

unknown 25:54

It's no surprise it happened to him.

SPEAKER_01 25:58

And it he must have been when that went in his went in his neck, he must have been half happy in the weirdest, craziest, twisty type of way you can ever hear.

unknown 26:10

I mean, the man must have been happy when he got stuck. How can you be happy?

SPEAKER_01 26:17

The man always wanted to go out by a gun or a knife, he never wanted to die an old man. He's got to sixty-six and someone put that in him. He must have been a happy man.

SPEAKER_03 26:27

Yeah, and maybe, maybe. I mean, I I I think it would have been a pretty horrible, you know, I don't think he died that quickly, but you know he didn't, he didn't.

unknown 26:36

He thought he thought he was fighting as well.

SPEAKER_03 26:38

He already kept him alive for a while, 'cause he said from if from from minutes after seven he was stabbed and he was still alive after eight o'clock. Okay, right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:48

So yeah, he was alive a good forty-five, fifty minutes. I don't know the exact time 'cause I've never counted it. But he was alive a good forty-five, fifty minutes before he was pronounced dead out of the seat.

SPEAKER_03 26:59

I wanted to I wanted to uh end on a sort of happier note because obviously he's uh uh sounds like a bit of a scumbag, but you know, genetically it sounds like you you don't share a lot with him. You've although you've had although you've had your problems with um drugs and uh prison and stuff, you know you you can you just tell me how how your life sort of uh has turned around in them recently.

SPEAKER_01 27:32

Um everything does scream prison. It was just a way to go, it was a natural progression. Um soon as I got addicted to smoking cocaine, it was a downward spiral. I would advise people never ever touch uh cocaine, even to sniff snot or anything else, very dangerous to get into. Um and yeah, I was just I changed my life around after being addicted for many years. I found that I met a beautiful girl, an Irish girl called Cara, who was very, very loving and very, very uh loyal to me. So I decided that, you know, not everyone was bad in this world. Because I hated the world for many, many years. I hated the world and I hated every adult inside of it. And I didn't respect them, I didn't trust them. That's why my first ever job I got nicked from a workplace at sixteen. I mean, I didn't respect adults or anyone else, anyone assault it with them. I'd been abused, I've been beaten, I've been battled off them all my life. I'd have to run from them in the night time to get away from them, you know, it's just one of their things. But now you now you've got your own son and I've got a beautiful little boy who's six years old, he's got autism, which is a very, very special condition. I mean, it's a gift from the gods to my beautiful partner I've been with for nearly ninety years, and we've got a six year old. So he came after twelve years. The number of totalities. So it's amazing, everything's beautiful.

unknown 28:57

Life is amazing.

SPEAKER_02 28:58

Um I've got my health I've got a few health conditions going on.

SPEAKER_01 29:02

Um I got shot in the nineties, that's caused a few problems. I got bit off a couple of dogs in the nineties, that's caused a bit of problems in my legs. Um I've been stabbed as well a couple of times, and that's caused a bit of problems.

SPEAKER_03 29:17

But I as as people can probably as people can probably tell listening to this, you've you've had quite a l quite a life and and you've written a book about it. Do you want to tell me about that?

SPEAKER_01 29:26

I have written a book, yeah. I've got an amazing book out on Amazon called Born in Prison, How I Survived Shooting, Stavlins, Prison, Crack Addiction, Manchester Gangs and Dog Attacks. And um it's literally about a town in England, any town you can imagine, and about an addict. It's no braggadocia about selling drugs and how much money I made and all that like nothing like that. It's a story of an addict who gets addicted and how he managed his life. And it it went to five stars on Amazon, it's at four and a half now, four point seven out of five, it's got amazing reviews. Um and yeah, you just Google Born in Prison by LNH and it comes up. Um yeah, and I'd tell everyone to give it a good read, 'cause part two's coming out soon, very soon.

SPEAKER_03 30:13

So that was Marvin's story, and I think you'll agree it's a fascinating tale. Um now some people might find all this a bit sordid, you know, it's we're talking about people who are um living at the sort of bottom of society, uh drug dealers, um criminals, shoplifters, etc. But um I think it's fascinating and it and it explains why so you know society, our society is like it is, and why crime is like it is. Um so just to give you an update on what happened to Eric George Rogers, uh Marvin's dad, uh on the first of March 2024 he was killed in his flat in uh Ponders End in in Enfield, North London. And it was a kind of a a sort of uh crackhead version of Cludo. There were uh several uh suspects. There was no Colonel Mustard or Miss Scarlet, there was four people in the flat that night, um Anthony Elliott, Eliakhurst, D. Sean Dixon, and uh Sean Stewart. And um there was two trials. Um the first trial, um basically the juries in both trials were asked to decide who had uh killed or who had murdered or killed Eric Rogers. In in the first trial, Anthony Elliott was cleared of all charges. In the um second trial, after a kind of a non unsatisfactory ending to the first trial, um the jury in the second trial found Dixon guilty of murder. They found Elliothurst guilty of manslaughter, uh Stuart had been found guilty of manslaughter in the first trial, and all three of those will be sentenced in April. Um one strange little piece of evidence which came out was that um Ellie Ackhurst had once been described as the prettiest girl in Edmonton, which is uh part of North London. Um but then obviously the crack and heroin habit took sixty girls,