Totalcrime
A true crime podcast, written and produced by Chris Summers, veteran crime reporter with more than 30 years of experience. He has been writing producing content for Totalcrime on Substack since March 2024 and is now launching into podcasting. The podcast will be a mixture of Chris narrating true crime stories from the UK and around the world, and occasional interviews with people who are knowledgeable about crime.
Totalcrime
Talking About the Rack5 and TY Trial With Tankz and TMC
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In this special episode I dissect the recent trial of London rappers Rack5 and TY with two voices from the streets, Tankz and TMC. Rack5 (Ellis Heather) was jailed for life on 17 July 2026 for the murder of the brother of rapper Morrisson after a trial which featured his former CGM buddy TY (Yonas Girma, pictured) - who has reinvented himself as a wildlife influencer - giving evidence against him and eventually being acquitted. We discuss the case and the ethics of "snitching".
Hello, welcome back to the Total Crime Podcast. This is episode twenty-four. And I've got with me in a London studio um tanks and TMC. We're we're all here to discuss the um the Jonas Germa and Ellis Heather trial to give it his formal title, uh, better known as Rack 5 and uh TY. So I have only I only came into this case sort of relatively recently, as in last year, when they've when they got charged, but you guys both know it from you know when it when it first happened and tell me what w when it sort of uh how you came across what had happened uh and you know how quickly the word on the street was and what had really happened. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02So for for for me, obviously big fans of CDM, big fans of 10-11 back in the days, and that's uh you know I always follow their their um their kind of antics. I'm a big fan of um T Wow, you know, before all of this anyway, like you know, seeing him kind of do the music thing and then kind of come out of that and then do his own thing with with that, and then obviously I hear he's got arrested. It's probably the first time I heard about it, like you know, him getting arrested for the Morrison thing, which which I kinda I did hear about on the streets some time ago. Not not on the streets, but you just hear these rumours about people involved and stuff like that, you know, hear little one, two lines and that and music and that. And then um obviously I think I think him speaking up in court and speaking about it, I think that actually came from yourself, Total Crime. That came that came from yourself, yeah. That that's what I probably when I first even saw about it, and then yeah, just everyone was just talking about it. Um, what about yourself?
SPEAKER_03Thanks. I'd heard that he was when it was in July. I think when he got arrested in July, that he gave a statement where he said it was Rack 5, he changed a statement. I'd heard about that when he got arrested for that. I heard that apparently it was snitching, but I didn't want to report it right because you know you giving someone a snitch in there was quite crazy. But yeah, um, I heard I heard about that, but yeah, that's that's how I first heard about it.
SPEAKER_01But when it when it first happened, all you you knew was that it was Morrison's brother who got killed. Yeah. And m was Morrison it was really did he start making did he sort of put out messages and he eventually ranked wrote songs and stuff, wasn't he?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, there were quite a few disses. Um even I mean looking at it in hindsight, now that Rap Five has been found guilty for it, um he yeah, I mean he was getting pushed musically, Diggadee was pushing him musically. Don't know if that's anything to do with that, probably not, but yeah.
SPEAKER_01Right, okay. Um but and but it back in those days, 2020, you you didn't know that it was CGM who were involved.
SPEAKER_02Uh yeah, I had no idea. I mean actually happened, yeah. No, no, I I don't I don't I don't know still to be honest with you for me uh um a jury's a jury's convict in a court still for me isn't like a fact, it's just you know he's the evidence evidence is overwhelming.
SPEAKER_01So for me, I I still don't know it's it's 100% them, but yeah man, like um yeah, that's yeah well I even I mean from um at one point I think I can reveal this at one point I didn't put it in my substat, but at one point um Rack Five's uh I gonna I call him Rack Five and they kept referring referring to him calling him as Rax because I think that's kind of the way they pronounced his name, even though because it I think Rack Five just sounds a bit weird to say, so yeah, yeah. They were spelling it with like a Z or the end, yeah um and then people were calling me out on Twitter and say, that's not Rax, you know not Rax, it's Rack Five, yeah, yeah, yeah. But um his even at one point his legal team, his barrister, was saying the killer had to be somebody at that video shoot. You know, that there's no doubt about that.
SPEAKER_03His solicitor said that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, his barrister, yeah.
SPEAKER_03Okay, wow.
SPEAKER_01Um yeah, because there was no doubt that you know the the killing happened in that car park at where they they had been doing the video shoot. It's not as if he was stabbed somewhere else or by some other group or whatever. So uh he was even trying to sort of say, I want the jury to know the criminal records of all those other people in that video, you know, all those other people in that car park, as if well one of them might have done it if but the judge wouldn't let that. He said, you know, that's that's it. Yeah, because they're not on trial.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and that that and that's and that's you know, solicitors do that all the time because obviously they know if the police hasn't arrested them, then you know that they're that's that's just gonna be a win for for his um uh for racks and then not and kind of like it almost sorry, yeah. Obviously, yeah, so solicitors know that would just be a win a win for racks, um rack five, sorry, and and again that that you you can kind of point the blame to Finnair, but if that would have just been a W for him, so I don't think it was too much of like I let's point the blame at another member. I think it was just like pointing at someone that's not even kind of involved, and everyone everyone's everyone wins in that way, but unfortunately it didn't, it didn't it didn't go well for everyone in that case, so yeah man.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean he they wanted a a red herring, they wanted the jury to think, well, well maybe it was that other guy who who you know but then you know I think yeah, I mean going back to the start of the trial, so tanks you've done uh obviously a f a full trial breakdown, yeah, which I think you might admit is is kind of heavily based on my sub stack, or oh yeah, yeah, yeah, but as mentioned, they give credit description. But I I really like the trial breakdown, I like the the way you used AR, the way you sort of uh portrayed them giving evidence in court. I was like, wow, that's like really them, you know. Um was it kind of real? Did I get all based on your substack as well? I mean, like you had the you know, obviously, yeah, they they they were both smartly dressed, you know, they both you know put on full court outfits to but their hair was pretty similar, you know. So yeah, they that's pretty much that's pretty much what the old baby looks like. So yeah. Yeah. And uh the bit the bit uh the um yeah, Monique and Crystal, so they they were the sort of key kind of key women in in the trial as well. Um and that I know they're very they're they don't like their names being brought out in connection with the case because they obviously are kind of scared of of recriminations or whatever.
SPEAKER_03Could you tell us actually what happened with um in because you said there was at one point they tried to say you weren't allowed to say their names?
SPEAKER_01Yes, uh there I had a mini heart attack at one point uh on the second day of the trial, because on the first day of the trial, so the prosecutor starts, reads out all pretty much kind of summary of the evidence, which is what everybody's waiting for. You know, what is this case about, what what evidence have they got? And that's when Mariam Saed, the uh prosecutor, who I'd never come across before, I'd never seen it in court, um, but she was quite good at uh in the end. Um she reads out the prosecution opening and she says um you know one of the key bits of evidence is gonna be from this woman, Monique. Uh I'm not gonna give her a surname. Uh I did originally uh on the first day, um, but then I know she's kind of she's a bit worried about her security and stuff, so um I'm just gonna call her Monique because that's out there. Um But yeah, so and then the second day of the trial, uh after everybody's reported her name, it's been in the press already, suddenly I was sitting there in court and um they said um they said something about oh she's she's a bit upset about her name being out there and and I was suddenly like had a panic attack. I thought, have I named her when I shouldn't have done? Was there reporting restrictions? And it turned out no, there wasn't reporting restrictions, but the prosecution were then trying to you know say you can't name her from now on. It's like horses already bolted, you know, see it's pointless.
SPEAKER_03And you're somebody you take that very seriously, you know, you take your craft very seriously. You do even give us pointers and say if there's risk of content of court, you know. Yeah, yeah. So you do it by the book.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean she was given she gave evidence under what's called special measures. So sometimes what they do is they bring them into court and they have a a curtain, they pull a court and a curtain across court. Oh wow, okay. So and then they come in so that you can't see them at all. You know, the the the curtain will be in such a way that the judge and the jury can see them, but the defendants can't see them, and nobody in the public gallery can see them. But they in her case they did uh she they had her on a video link um so everybody could see what she looked like, but she obviously felt safe, she wasn't in the courtroom or didn't have to s see them.
SPEAKER_03Um was TY from the wild, he was released straight away, wasn't it?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. Ah as soon as court was done, he was out. That's the weird thing. Uh it was really annoying actually, because uh the jury had been out for quite a few days and uh I can't remember which day, I think it was on a Tuesday, they came back with a guilty verdict for um Rack 5 and he just storms out of court, you know. He's he didn't he didn't sort of I thought he might have a meltdown, I thought he might attack um T W T Y or something, or at least sort of swear at him or swear at the jury or something. Um but he just didn't, he just silently sort of stormed out of court and um the the prison guards sort of let him go down to the cells and that was it. And then they said uh we still haven't decided on TY. So another few days went past. Meanwhile, there was another trial starting in that court, which is a really weird trial transferred from Newcastle with these Geordie um alleged gangsters. Um it's quite a long convolution. Um it will be a substack uh eventually, but I think yeah. Uh but that trial had to start while the jury they were waiting for the jury. So all the journalists were in court thinking, okay, we're gonna we'll sit through this trial, and then at some point they'll let the jury back in for the verdict. And then suddenly we hear they've already taken the verdict in the other court. Like, what? That's like unheard of. Like um, and uh yeah, it turned out we were in court 14 and the judge had decided I'm not gonna interrupt that that trial, I'll just take the verdict from uh on TY in court 15.
SPEAKER_00Oh, without there's no press there.
SPEAKER_01And we only found out about it because um And what other news organizations barristers came in and told us that he'd just been found not guilty, just you know, so we didn't actually see him walk, you know. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02You you're journalists, but what other journal journalists were there on on behalf of who?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Well it's um something called the Press Association who or PA they they supply most newspapers. Nowadays you you don't find many newspapers or whatever go into court. It's all they all get it from PA. Okay. And there was also uh a news agency guy who they sell it as well to various papers. But um yeah, we were all just a bit baffled and uh found out later. But yeah, that was big news because then we we were quite I was quite worried at one point that the jury hadn't decided there would be like a hung jury and that they would uh you know they would have to have retrial and then I couldn't tell the full story. Um so I'm very glad that we eventually got a verdict and the full story can be told. But I I would just want to ask you about the um Ten Eleven Days song.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01So there I mean there's a lot of controversy in there about drill music lyrics being played in court. Absolutely. Um what would you make about that, you know, evidence? I mean you you know what what the jury were told, etc.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, well I've seen I find now with the drill with drill lyrics they mainly use it to paint a picture of the type of person they are. You know, that's what they do. They just want they use drill lyrics to just say, see, this is a gang member, he's a killer. From reading your substacks, that's that's how it seems like they've been using it mainly, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Well, yeah, I think to be fair to the judge in this case, he was really conscious of that because he he could have just said, I'm gonna play the whole video, or or I'm gonna play show them the video, um, but he was really conscious that he said that uh he made a ruling with when the jury weren't there saying it's too prejudicial because they're gonna see you know them all sort of um kind of dissing, you know, and just their attitude, the way they were singing, was was kind of disrespectful to the people who they were singing about. So if you just hear the audio, you just don't you don't get that your prejudice, you just hear the words.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. And you said in court as well that because the sense the version of that 10-11 days song that's out there, you can't hear zero them say zero L. Yeah, well, you said in court, did they get hold of an uncensored version or a studio version? How do they get hold of it?
SPEAKER_01I don't know. I mean, the you they they've is there not an original version out there or I don't think it is. I can't allow it. I don't know. I haven't heard an unright unoriginal version. Well, I know the I know the Met have kind of well, they've like a gang unit and they have sort of specialists who who kind of monitor drill music lyrics, so maybe they maybe they would have had the audio engine grabbed it before it was taken down or something.
SPEAKER_03I'm thinking because I haven't heard any. I haven't heard any. Maybe you think wouldn't be an audio engineer would be able to uncensor it? Maybe, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, Chris. Yeah, that's that's a good point because they did play the audio and it was it was an interpretation of what does that sound like? And it to me, and I'm sure to the jury, it sounded like OL.
SPEAKER_02Okay, so it wasn't uncensored. Okay, that makes sense.
SPEAKER_01So that's kind of crucial, you know. If if he's saying it's O, but everybody believes it's OL and OL meaning zero losses, yeah, then that means he's talking about that live, that it that Instagram live, that would have sealed the deal anyway. Yeah, I don't know why.
SPEAKER_03It's crazy on the Insta Live.
SPEAKER_01Why that never came to the attention of prosecution? Because they could have just said that. Well, we're here. You're saying chaos is died. Fuck you know, you're saying fuck chaos and fuck OL. That's obviously two different people.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Yeah, that's kind of mad. That's kind of crazy. I don't even know that. I'm and wait, well, listen. Hopefully I don't I don't affect his appeal if he does do appeal.
SPEAKER_01Hopefully, I just haven't heard any word of an appeal, but um yeah, who's gonna appeal, isn't it? Yeah, who's gonna appeal? But yeah, he'll try to appeal, but he has to get leave to appeal, you know. They have to think, you know, you've got some sort of ground, yeah.
SPEAKER_02A reason to um he might do, but um to your question earlier, in terms of what what we what I think about the art, the art, yeah, evidence type of you know, campaign that's been going on, you know, Diggade's been kind of pushing it, as his one of his solicitors have been pushing it, everyone's really been pushing it. Um I'm with them, if I'm honest with you. I'm with them. I think I I did a little bit of studying of you know the rule of law and and things like that, and I just think I think personally, I'm happy that you said that the judge doesn't allow the video to be shown, because I think that's important. I think it's very easy to paint a picture, especially where everyone, even especially this society right now, everyone's doing a make-believe type of driller, it's make-believe criminal, it's itself. So I'm happy to hear that the judge kind of didn't even let the video be shown because other than evidence, you're right that the judge is right. There's that natural bias when you see people in balies and say first person, naturally, you want to believe that they're a murderer or they're a criminal. In fact, they themselves want you to believe that in that video. So I I I'm happy to hear that. But with these with lyrics and stuff, I think I don't know, man. I think I think it's it's hard to ignore the lyrics, but at the same time, if if I think it all depends, I don't know how it works in the or I don't know how I'm sure it's case by case, but I think it depends on how much weighs on the lyrics. Like Tank said, if it's kind of just to paint that they said, fuck this person, and you know he does know who RL is and they do know who this person is, then I think it's okay, but it's just when the lyrics is used and like kind of it's kind of like overwhelmingly helping the jury decide that they're they're kind of their verdict.
SPEAKER_03I think that's just not fair because KO, yeah, that's where they really exactly like KO.
SPEAKER_01But no, but K in that case that proved proved that he had information about a gun, you know, because he spoke about the information. How could he know he knew about yes?
SPEAKER_03But he wasn't there, like that one's that one's I think is a bit crazy because he wasn't there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, and um, who else was it?
SPEAKER_01Not KO that's that's joint enterprise, isn't it? So if you yeah, I can understand people don't don't agree with joint enterprise. You know, if you knew if you weren't there, you shouldn't be going down for it, you know. Or you know, like TY said, he he he sort of said um everybody knows about joint enterprise. That's why I was worried, because I knew that he'd stabbed them and I was gonna I didn't want to go down for it, you know, because I was there. What about Billy Billions's case as well? Well, actually, I was gonna mention that because um he they I remember that in that case they showed they showed uh video of of um what's that video where they're they're in the like celebrity squares, you know, they're like there's there's one video when they're all sort of in like three rows and it's all all his uh group.
SPEAKER_03No, yeah. I think I know what video you're talking about.
SPEAKER_02And it was Oh yeah, yeah. It's us that did it.
unknownThat one.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I can't think of the track. Yeah, yeah, I know the one. And they're and they're in like uh yeah, I know it's like uh three three and three. Yeah, yeah, I know that. And they're in a um it's uh it's an edited video where they're like the three squares, one, two, three, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think that's the one where it's like it's us that did it. I think it's called us that did us.
SPEAKER_01And he uh at one point there the prosecutor was saying who that person there is gone to prison, that person's gone to prison. So he was kind of like basically saying, All your friends are wrong and you know, um, which is not you would say that's not really evidence, is it? That's just sort of by association or whatever. Yeah, exactly, exactly. Oh yeah, um I'll take your point about you have to be very careful with the drill lyrics, and also, as quite a few people, including Billy Billions, said in trial during their trial that drill is all about image and and you're portraying an image of a kind of gangster. Yeah. And he claimed, I'm not a gangster, I just make it all up, basically. He was basically saying, you know, I I make the lyrics up and I I took take credit for various bits of violence that I never did. Yeah. Because you can't make it as a successful drill rapper without it. That's what he claimed.
SPEAKER_02Which is what which is what yeah, which is what a lot of draw rappers do. A lot of at the moment, SD Kidd is probably one of the biggest popping artists at the moment, and no, he hasn't claimed crimes, but he he does have a facade, and that's that's like a lot a lot a lot of artists, you know, that that kind of blow up at the moment. Like that, that's that's the truth. People do clear if I'm being so honest, like, even like when I used to watch 10-11, like even back from some of the things that they used to say on um Tim Westwood and things like that, it's like uh some of the things that they were rapping about wasn't to do with them. So it's like it is, and if they were ever to get arrested for for those for those crimes, if if their lyrics was used as any type of evidence, that would be wrong in my eyes. Because I know it's kind of like, oh, yeah, but they said that they didn't. It's like, bro, this is their music, their music's getting viewers, they're getting big from it. They didn't actually they weren't even at the crime scene. So I I agree with that with that statement that you said, Billy said, because that's that's what a lot of draw-rappers do these days. Um everyone's trying to portray an image. Everyone's trying to portray an image. We portray an image, we might not be a criminal one, but everyone's trying to portray an image. So yeah, that's that's what I think about that.
SPEAKER_01Who was that you were talking about?
SPEAKER_02Uh the um so the part one proper SD Kid. SD Kid is uh obviously SD Kid.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, have you heard of him? No, yeah, yeah. So he's uh becoming big huge, he's popping, he's huge. But where is he from or Liverpool from Liverpool? Oh okay, right. So he wears a ballet and he just raps.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, he claims to be from like Liverpool gangs or it's not like he he reps a gang specifically, but he definitely acts like you know, you've got like guns in his music video. Obviously, he's obviously props, but like if you're not about that life, like if you if we're all being honest, he wouldn't have that in this. I don't know, obviously I couldn't tell you what his childhood was like, but he he does seem very commercial. And I and I think if he was rapping about what he was actually doing, then he probably would have been arrested. But it I don't think he's he's about what he's rapping about. But I think if you talk to him, I think he would say the same thing. I think he's saying the same thing, it's a it's an image that he's got to portray. I don't think he's ever gonna get arrested, um, because that's not he's not involved in those type of crimes. But I just think it's it's just an image he's portrayed at the best, and I'm sure people like Billy Billions, Digger D, 1011, all these people are trying to be at that level where someone scoots them up and kind of says, Yo, listen, like this is selling. So obviously, unfortunately, you do get some rappers that you know are tied to crimes as well, and they are rapping about their lifestyle that they live, but it's not all of them, and I think unless you've got evidence, I just don't think lyrics personally should be used as evidence. That's just I need to just say that I just don't think that that it should be used if I'm being honest, but yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean the uh you know in the in the substack I wrote, I basically said there was three main bits of evidence. One was Monique's evidence, um obviously um Tware's evidence and the lyrics, but uh there was another bit of evidence which I couldn't really explain in the substat, but it was kind of crucial, which is these um it's like a video and images that uh were taken. I think Monique took them of uh Christy Crystal. Um and then she's sort of sitting on the back of her car while the video shoot was going on. And in the background you can see you know, this is just before the stabbing. So you can see uh Morrison um Steve Morrison walking around without without his top on and you can see other people and but basically it's quite difficult to explain, but the prosecution made it quite clear that one of those people was uh Rack 5 and he was saying I was no I was nowhere near it, I was nowhere near the stabbing, I was nowhere near I didn't even see, you know, he was I mean he was really overdoing it, like I d I don't know, I didn't I didn't see I didn't see him, I didn't see anyone driving around, I didn't see like it was just nonsense, like well you can't you know were you in the same car park? Like everybody else saw it, but he sort of like no, I didn't see anything and you know had no idea that somebody was stabbed, like it was and he was all saying, I don't remember, I don't remember, it was just Do you remember if TY from the wild?
SPEAKER_03Do you reckon if TY didn't didn't give testimony and they both stuck to a story that Rack 5 could have got away with it? Good question.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, maybe. Um if they had both said we don't remember, uh you know, then all you had was Monique's word that she saw um what she thought was you know, which she thought was a punch, but later you know basically saying that uh Rack 5 admitted it was a stabbing. Um because he said that was my first M murder. You said there was no DNA over there, could have one of them could have done it.
SPEAKER_03You said there was no DNA, there was no CCTV of the murder happening. No. There wasn't much even, was there?
SPEAKER_01No, it's quite it was a heavily circumstantial case and yeah, I guess you know, if well that's why it took so long for the police to have enough or the prosecution to have enough to charge people, you know. 2020 they were interviewed, they all said no comment, nothing happened. 2021, they were brought back, still said no comment. 2024, um the CPS uh went uh no further action. So which given up. Which basically makes them think, we've got away with it, you know, we'll we got we're in the clear. Um and then a year later, probably because of Monique, you know, her evidence, they um they sort of decided to charge them or arrest them, and then you know, TY makes his admissions and then they've got enough to charge, you know. But uh yeah, it was kind of a borderline case really. Um but yeah, I was also interested in uh in the reaction on Twitter particularly, or X as it's called. Yeah, Twitter. Yeah, it was also Instagram, I'm sure it was on Snapchat and stuff about the you know, the should he rap or should he not um you know the street code about what TY had done. Yeah. It immediately the first sort of instinctive reaction was oh god, that's not the good that's a fucking bad thing to do. Definitely. But then later the sort of public opinion changed a bit, or it seemed to be like more people are.
SPEAKER_02Because it worked, because it got got bigger. The thing is, you know, our culture, as as as loud as we might be, and when I say culture, I'm just talking about the hip-hop culture, um, still small relatively compared to the world, and as it gets bigger, as the cut case, and obviously you, you're a big, big part to that, Chris, and you tanks as well, as you're not kind of blowing up the case, it's gotten so big, you know, like the wider populations have seen it, and that's where you get the Lil Maze and you know, bigger people that are just in the in that kind of conversation. No, yeah, she's cool, she's she's a calm person. I'm not like I talk to her, but she she's a cool person, but like a lot of things that she says I don't agree with. She chats a lot of shit. Yeah, respectfully, yeah. Respect. She's someone that's kind of like a guest that tries to paint as if she's inside and she's not. Um, and just like, yeah, I think I think that's where you get like the wider people outside of the culture. And anytime outside of the hip hop culture looks into the culture, they're always gonna judge everything that's going on. Um, me personally, I'm always no snitching, and like, not because all my days, like, yeah, gang member, yeah, we've got to always make sure no, because it's just for me, it just opens up too many doors, and people say, like, oh, like, you know, um TY was he was out here like you know, he's he's living his own life now, but he's trying to do better in his life. I hear that and I understand that, but in a sense of like snitching, you don't snitch on when you was about the life because he was there, he was in the music video, he was rapping about he was in the music videos after that, you know, rapping about things that could be you know interpreted about that that situation. He was there. So for me, I always say, What about Russian mobsters? When they when they when they retire, do you see them snitching? Italian mobsters, when they retire, do you see them snitching? No, then you don't snitch when you retire. Like that is something you've done when you're uh in that life, you keep that to the grave. If you want to live your own life and you know, you know, look after lizards and that, and that I respect it, you know. Like I always rape. No, but that's what a man was doing that, you understand. So you want to look after lizards and that I hear it. I'm someone that wanted to like I'm someone that always I I like I always advocate, leave the streets, bro, go out and do something else. Everyone's kind of been around street culture, leave it, go make your money, do your thing. I'm always about that. But you don't know which you don't shit on the people below you to get where you want to go. You never do that. Unfortunately, you were there if you were there, allegedly, but unfortunately, you are in the you're in this situation, you gotta take it to the grave type thing. Um, I'm always about that, and and that's just because the system is not built for people like that, it's not built for the streets, and I just think you can't by doing that, what's what like obviously I I don't know Ty's personal crimes or what he's been involved in, but what's stopping anyone that don't like Ty now saying, you know what, if he can snitch, how about I snitch on Ty? Like, and then someone snitch on them, and that's the whole thing about snitching, it's like you were you were together doing everything together. If if you start kind of ratting on each other, you've opened the doors to no one wins, but the the the the system does, you understand? So that's why I'm I that's why I always say don't snitch because the system's against everyone anyway. I always see it, I always compare it to like selling your soul. Like I could I hate someone when I sell my soul to get that person down, no, because I was I also lose. You feel me? So that's what that's my opinions on opinions on that. What do you think, Tokes?
SPEAKER_03Well a little rebut. I'll just play devil's advocate because I agree with most of what you said, because I think it's just ultimate betrayal at the end of the day. But a common rebuttal to that would be when you're looking at 25 years, you don't know what you'd be thinking.
SPEAKER_01Also, what about would there would it depend on who the victim was? Like if if it was sort of a little kid got shot by accident, you know. That's a good question. But this guy, you know, this was a guy who was clearly winding them all up. And I don't know, I don't know if he was innocent, but he was he was not uh you know, an innocent party, he wasn't a sort of civilian who uh had nothing to do with it, who got shot by accident. He was somebody who annoyed that group and they together sort of rushed in my you know.
SPEAKER_02Like I said, in that situation, Towers and videos after uh T hours and videos after, you know, they're they're right, you're still around the same person. Now I the only way I would say that you know maybe you might be able to snitch at him anyway, is if on that night he said, F all you look, I can't believe this happened, like da-da-da-da-da-th-th-th-th-th-this is not what we're about, and left, and that's when you know you get caught, and that's the only way. But the thing is that and that just comes to morals because for me, I believe like at that moment you believe this is not what we're about, but after you're seeing everyone around Rax 5 or Rax like talking about it and mention it and saying Rax this guy and that guy, bro. I've been in the streets when I was younger, I was being around the streets, you're around mad men, and you think to yourself, if you're around a madman and he's got a shank and whatever, you know you're involved, you're you could be implicated in whatever he does. If you're around him, he does a mad thing, you're implicated. Like you said, joint enterprise enterprise, like T Bad said, joint enterprise, you know this stuff, but it's also where you get your credit from. You understand? A lot of like I said, a lot of these people that are rapping about this stuff, they don't do it, they're people who did it. So if you can claim them when you're rapping about it, and yeah, when it's the same claim that you get when you get caught with it. You understand? Like the same claim. So, not to say with the lyrics and that, but just in general, I just feel like to you tanks, if I was sitting there 25 years, sitting in front of 25 years, and a lawyer said, Yo, you've got 25 years for this, I'm thinking, oh my days, I can't believe it. That's it. I'm not thinking, let me just be a bit sly. That's the kind of person you are. Yeah, like me. It's all it's already here, like it's already here. It's like if you boom, if if a police officer booms in my in into the studio right now and arrests me for chilling with Jew tanks, I'm already done. Like, I'm like, oh crap, like I'm already caught. I'm not gonna think, can I kind of shit on my friends back home to get out of this situation? I'm already done like this is done, like, oh I especially if I knew like this is a crime, like being here is a crime, and I knew this is I'm already done.
SPEAKER_03You know what it is, bro. I don't like obviously I've never been looking at 25 years, but from your perspective, I see it. For me, it's just like yo, if I was okay with it at the time, I can't like I I can't see myself doing that exactly, you know, betraying it's like, bro, I'm with you, you know. Exactly, exactly.
SPEAKER_01I was there at the time. Can I ask you about one of the things that they were said in the trial, which um TY claimed that he had repeatedly asked uh Rack 5 to uh turn himself in. Yeah, what do you think of that TMC? Don't believe it. Yeah, I was fairly skeptical about that.
SPEAKER_02I don't believe it. I don't believe it, but it I don't believe it. And guess what? I can I I don't it's not no allegedly now. Now when you're like when you're snitching, I can say this, but I don't believe it. And the reason I don't believe it is because you're in videos with it after that, after that incident. If you really like I said, that you used it earlier if it was a little boy, whatever. If it was a little boy, if I was here or a little girl, someone got killed by accident, and a man was rapping or proud about it, I promise you that you is that he's not gonna be around me, you're not gonna see me in the videos after, you're gonna see this. And guess what? Then when I come in the court later, 10 years down the line or two years out of the line, three years down the line, you're gonna realise after that incident where he hurt someone, I I was not agreeing with it. You didn't even see me with him. You understand? You know I'm not part of him. Like the thing is, like I said, these are rapping after and bigging up Rack Five, whether it's about that specific incident or not, obviously Rack Five saying he's innocent, cool, so he didn't do it, but you're still bigging him up, like that's that's you're still with him. Yeah, later on you're not with him, but like you're still with him, like after. If there's a single video of you with him after, then no, you didn't you how can you say you didn't want in the tournament? How about you just didn't want to be around a person? If you thought what you've done was so bad, how about you just don't be around a person? How about you don't chill with him? How about you don't make music videos with them? So no, I can I'll be honest with you, like this snitching thing, because it's like a rule of street culture, and unfortunately, so many people in the streets are so unlike they they lack education, so they don't have the right answer for these questions. But I promise you, there's no situation where I can tell you snitching is okay. Like I know what I think about snitching, I almost see it like selling us selling your soul, like if you're religious. Like I see it like that in the sense of you lose either way, like you're in a system, you're in a place where the system's against all of you, you can't just be, oh yeah, down the line. Let me just give up. If I got caught for even if I was chilling with somebody and they did something mad and I and I was there, and bear in mind, because you're joining enterprise, that it might not even happen if I'm if if if I wasn't there. Bear in mind, these you everyone's bigging up Rat 5 and da da da da, whatever. How about maybe if Ty weren't there, maybe even that wouldn't have even happened. Maybe even if he's thinking, you know, I'm by myself, I don't need to impress no one. That's the whole point of a gang. That's the whole point of your G's, that you're around people that are bigging up your thing. So that's what I'm trying to say. Like, if that was me at the time, 30 years down the line, I've got five children, 20 grandchildren, I get arrested, and all I've got to do is say it wasn't me to be uh, but I gotta say it's my friend and da da. I'm just gonna say I'm already caught. Oh man, you know, but to my to my to my partner, you know what? I'm I'm done, you know. They got me. I'm gonna try and fight my fight my case, but I'm snitching is just never the option. Like, it's just never an option. Like I said, it's like selling your soul. If so, if the devil approached me and I was in that cell and said, bro, you can sell your soul right now and be free. I'm I'm done. I'm in jail. You understand? Like, that's how I see it, innit? So that's just me, but yeah, yeah, that's with me.
SPEAKER_03I I agree with that entire perspective. But it's just I just can't hundred percent say that because I've not been looking at 25 years. You get what I'm saying? Of course, I've hit like facts, you know.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean it it in his defence he was saying uh that um it was just he was just fed up of you know this hanging over him. He was saying that it affected him his mother. I don't I don't know why, but he was sort of basically saying she was sort of fed up with it hanging over as well. So but yeah, but I I see it's a it's a it's a law of the streets and yeah, he's got what we forever sort of you know tarnished with that, isn't he? I mean he he I don't know how successful he can be with his sort of wildlife thing.
SPEAKER_02When you said tarnish when you said affect his mother, what do you mean? As in being caught in this crime. Sorry? What what was affecting his mother? Sorry.
SPEAKER_01Uh he he said he said something about oh um you know, yeah, it was just hanging over me, it was it was really affecting my mother. Yeah, and I remember it.
SPEAKER_02He did say well, cut Taiya TY.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, TY was kind of saying I don't know whether she was asking him to sort of come clean or whatever, but he was sort of arrested.
SPEAKER_03Every year getting arrested, she's gonna be stressed.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, yeah. Big up Mum's he, man, but you know what is yeah, big up mummy. He's there, man. He's there. Like my mum's never gonna tell me to snitch, unfortunately.
SPEAKER_01But but that is uh I mean that is that it's weird that he was in that video, and maybe because the judge wouldn't let the video the jury see the video, therefore the prosecutor couldn't say, Look, you're in that video.
SPEAKER_02No way, I didn't even think of it like that, you know.
SPEAKER_01So I'm surprised she there was no one other way she could say, Well, then you know, like I didn't even think of it.
SPEAKER_02So that judge that judge might have been a pagan, though. Maybe I thought he was kind of backing it, but he's just kind of making sure that someone's going down for it and the the snitch is with him. Okay, no, now in that video, bro. I played it in the breakdown, like he's literally there in the background that's fighting. I don't I don't know I have seen the video, yeah. See that that see that you you're the first one you put on the top, no no, yours.
SPEAKER_01I just put up the timer, like obviously. This is might be uh this might not already work on a podcast anyway, but there was uh in that video, there's somebody else uh rapping in there who is like masked up. Yeah. You know, you know that is MSCOM. Well, I yeah, I I think I think who it is, do you know there was um a s um what's it called, a CBO on them. They they were they were banned from rapping together. Oh so I think that's why that person had to sort of mask up because that was a breach of the order. Yeah, it was AP then or dodgy. Yeah. So yeah, because it was TY was not allowed to rap with uh what's your name? Horrid, horrid one. Yeah or uh M scum and all these people. So that's why that person was whoever it was was it was in a mask, you know, because it was a breach of the order to do that. But that that was also quite controversial, wasn't it? That order saying that you sh you know, you can't sing together. It's a bit of a bit of a weirdonian order. But actually one other thing that uh came out in the trial was that 'cause the jury the jury took a really long time making their minds up on TY and they kept coming about it with the questions and the judge eventually said to them, Right, basically, if you cannot be sure that um TY punched uh Steve Morrison or that he knew that Rat Five had a knife that you can't convict him. And which is fair. I guess if they found him not guilty, they they came to that conclusion here they don't they couldn't be sure he punched him or he they knew that he had a knife. That seems fair enough.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, no nah, that's yeah. That I'd be everything you just said that is is is quite interesting. I'll be right. I don't even think about um kind of the kind of the judge intentions on that. But yeah, yeah, we even with the other with the um uh uh the gang members not being able to rap with each other. I know 1011s is almost like she, they're like the poster boys for that. They're the poster boys for kind of police cracking down on on their tin. They're literally the poster boys, so yeah, man, but them and Sklengdo and AM. Yeah, AM and Skendo, yeah, but AM and Skendo at Kaloki worked, but yeah, CGM there, them are like the poster boys for you know not being able to post videos or drill videos being taken down. Most a lot of their drill videos being taken down. And and I'll be honest with you, I think I saw I was actually so back when in I think it was the pandemic, I was on a spaces um with black Americans, and they actually mentioned CGM because they saw that as you know how like Americans see like the government in the UK is like very like restrictive, like they see them very intrusive and restrictive, and they actually mentioned 1011 and they even called them wrong, like they called the gang wrong, they called it wrong, but like they knew what they I knew what they were talking about. I talk about Dickadie a lot, and they they said like apparently over here, like you know, if you don't say something the government don't like, they'll stop you from being able to post about it. Like it does it does open that that kind of kind of worms about freedom of speech and things like that. Like you they are quite intrusive over here, not just the government, but it's just like the police and what you're allowed to do. And me and me and tanks are are brothers, but if we're implicated in a crime, we can just get turned out told we're not allowed to even sit together or make content together. It it is quite it's quite deep when you think about it. Obviously, we're in this bubble of the United Kingdom, but the world does see it and they do kind of have their own opinions on it, so yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, because in America the freedom of speech is so important, it's so fundamental. Yeah, fundamental though. You can say whatever you like in a song, it can be really, really offensive, really gross, really whatever, but it's a freedom of speech, you're entitled to say it. Exactly, exactly. Even you know, even I guess even if it's like anti-Semitic or racist or you know, misogynistic, it's your right to say it, you know. Which, you know, to us in Britain sounds a bit weird, but um Yeah, yeah. It's their thing.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01But yeah, um, so this this case it was just lots of people beforehand just kept saying to me, Are you gonna be covering this case? Are you gonna be covering the the trial? Because I could tell the appetite was huge for it, you know, so that's why I did it. So I w I knew people to tell me I mean I knew I already knew it, there was gonna be a good trial, but you know, I I appreciate it when people tell me in advance, oh yeah, you know, oh you you've got to cover this one, you know.
SPEAKER_03The Michael Ward one. I feel like that one's a decent one to cover.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, no, I haven't been covering that. Uh I missed the boat. Somebody needed to tick me off on beforehand.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I should have, but you know what? Sometimes some cases are best left alone, man. Some cases are left, best left alone. I think the Michael Ward case is just, yeah, that's that's just a different one. I feel like your your niche as well, like with within our culture, I think is like the street draw rappers type thing. Obviously, I know that you you kind of cover people that's not even draw rappers anyway, you cover everyone, but I feel like with your one, with you, Chris, I think you're like, well, with me personally, sorry, like my peaked interest with yourself is is definitely kind of the rappers, the draw rappers. And because you're outside the culture, people don't really see you as like, oh my days, like you're commenting on what we're like. It's funny because in our culture, yeah, it's so funny. In our culture, yeah, if you're a tanks and you're commenting on something, people will say you're a gossip. But if you're Chris Summers, people would be like, yo, this specialised lawyer that sold a legitimate. I'm trying to say, like, tanks will comment on something and they'll say, like, oh, like he's some gossiper and he's like a gal or something, you understand?
SPEAKER_03Like, but the people are gonna get stuck more than me though, it's 100%. Yeah, 100%.
SPEAKER_02No, but what I'm I'm not even talking about your content, because your tongue your content's good, like it's not it's far from gossipy, but I'm trying to say, even how structured your content is, because you and Chris for me are like parallels in the sense of how well you cover stories. Um, but you're like people say about your thing like that it's like gossipy, even if it's not gossip, just like they just don't like people in our culture covering our own things.
SPEAKER_01I do they like that much. I would rec I would recommend people listening to this podcast go and go and see Tank's uh full trial break. 100%. Uh it's really good. It's like it obviously it's based on my substat, but he does his own thing you've you've added more to it and it just works really well. 100%, yeah. And and you're right at the end of that, you you uh you take me the task with the end of the substat. I was gonna ask you about coming expecting you haven't seen it, but tell me what did you say or what did I do wrong?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it's just towards the end, it was just um you know, the It's just the comment at the end where you said um like I I I don't remember when it was between.
SPEAKER_01It was about m Malik. She there was this bizarre uh exchange where she texted one of her friends saying, I've just had sex with uh Rat Five. Yeah, he's just too sexy, I can't resist. I'm just like it was a bit of a wind up.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, but let me let me not but let's debug that though, cause man's my lord couple brothers in prison. It's not even that that mad in prison, not in the UK anyway. Maybe America, but UK, they do, they do, they do read.
SPEAKER_01We've had we've had a few murders in prison recently, haven't we? Yeah. A few prison murder trials. Yeah, yeah, no, of course.
SPEAKER_02Of course, no, no, no, not mad in that way, no. Of course, I'm trying to say in terms of all that like that.
SPEAKER_03I'll just say more like us as black men, yeah, yeah, a little bit fetishized with that stuff, you know. I mean exactly, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Okay, I'll I'll take that criticism.
SPEAKER_03I like constructive criticism because you do great work, it was just that I was just like Chris was amazing, but that like why'd you choose to end up like that?
SPEAKER_01I I saw somebody else on on Twitter said they thought it was funny.
SPEAKER_02I told people that Twitter's dangerous because you see Twitter like you like you could create your own bubble, what's it called again?
SPEAKER_01Actually, yeah, you convince yourself you're really good or something. But it's a few comments.
SPEAKER_02Oh, I could like be obsessed with carpets and find people that are obsessed with carpets, and all of a sudden, oh my days, you know what, there's better people that are obsessed with carpets. You can you can be right all the time on Twitter because it's people that agree, like there's so many people on Twitter, it's like you'll have people agree with you for everything. Like you can be anything, so like you can think something like you can say the madest thing, and someone's gonna find it funny, someone's gonna find it mad.
SPEAKER_03Like, and the majority of your comments will be agreeing as well somewhere.
SPEAKER_02We go, exactly, because if they're not they're not there. Remember, your followers are people that follow your shit. You understand? So it's like you you create this bubble. I say I tell people all the time, people always say to me, it's not just in social media in general, but people always say to me, Ah, you know bad people are agreeing with me, but then I'm like, of course they are, that's why they're with around you. You're not seeing all the other people over there that's not agreeing with you. Exactly. That's not agreeing with tank.
SPEAKER_01I deliberately, I deliberately follow a few people on Twitter and stuff who are we got really opposite political views today. Because I'd like to know what other people are. You need to have a side of the spectrum of thinking. You need to.
SPEAKER_02I don't know. I I kind of I kind of mute mute a lot of people. I kind of mute a lot of people.
SPEAKER_01Not yeah, I mean I I mute the people who you know the what the most common thing that they say on Twitter is oh that sounds like a very British name. When it's a guy like Abdul Ibrahim is charged with murder, and then like, oh that sounds like a very British name. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Actually I'm a racist, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02No, no, I hear no. I think sorry, just to go back to what I was saying earlier, sorry. I don't even mean to say that people think you're gossip. That's not what I meant, sorry. What I meant is you don't get credit for the the level of journalism that you do. No cap, and this isn't because I I fuck with you, but because like I I see a lot of people media skills and I rate a lot of people, but journalism-wise, there's no one that's above you. I promise you, what I see in our culture, there's no one above you. And what I'm trying to say about that is when people post about your unless they unless they know you and like you, when people post about your like your videos or your content, people don't say, I this is the best journalism, da da da but if it's Chris, guys will say, Yeah, you know that journalist that's or that lawyer, even though he's not a lawyer, they will still call him a lawyer. And my point, that's that's our culture we don't like when it's coming from within. Like they don't like, it's like a crabs in a bucket thing. Like they really don't like our own people, they just can't like it's like they're blindsided to the level of skill that we can provide from within. You understand the side, even me, I'm not a journalist. I always say I'm not a journalist, I like post stuff and whatever, and but I'm a blogger, like I do blog things like your level of skill, like I said, parallels with Chris, and I just feel like a lot of people don't give that credit that deserves that. Chris, I always say to Chris Bro, listen, because you're like who you are, keep doing what you're doing because you're gonna be probably like one of the biggest voices in our culture because our culture just loves the outside voice. Exactly. You feel me? I've seen the way people talk about you think like even like idiot blogs, the way they talk about you is like you're like good ascent, you know what I'm saying? Like you've been sent from the top law school to talk about like I swear that's how they talk about you might not even see it, but that's how they talk about like you from without art of culture. But if you had like a black face and was from Crayden, all of a sudden you're not you're not. Oh, that's interesting, yeah.
SPEAKER_01That's really that's really bad though, isn't it? Uh yeah, it's a negativity.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, no, but the only thing I said about you, Chris, is I've met you, I spoke to you, you're a real person. Like, I do like you, and it's not like you're sitting in some place in white in Washington and like because I see some of these blogs are like in them in in Nigeria or in like in some mad place and it's talking as if they are so but you are like you've told me someday some some personal information as well, like you're from the ends, you know people from the ends, you're really with it. So that's why I would say it's not it's not bad, it's only bad when you know our people from our culture aren't giving aren't getting no no kind of like props, but no, I'm not upset with you. I wouldn't be sitting there with you. It's the first time I've even sat down with anybody, you understand, Chris and tanks. I have to because I rate you two, you understand? I rate both of you as journalists. I rate you both of us. I would not be sitting here right now. That's just something I just had to say. So yeah, man.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, well, we appreciate it. And uh, but yeah, well, thanks for uh joining me for this little uh re little debate about the uh TY and uh Rack 5 trial, which has surely gone down in history as the best the best trial of 2026 so far.
SPEAKER_03I've got a few more questions for you, Chris before weather. And a few for TMC as well. Okay, you know what I mean.
SPEAKER_01So turn it turn it back on me now. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03Because we've had a good good episode here. Out of all the draw trials you've covered, is the T Wife from the Wild one the most interesting one, you reckon?
SPEAKER_01I I think yeah, I think I well, maybe it's because it's the most recent in memory, but yeah, I think it probably is probably the most nuanced, you know, like I mean other other cases were kind of interesting, like Digger D, even Digger D's Newton hearing, where they were sort of arguing about how much uh cannabis he used or sold. That was quite interesting.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, there's teeth, that's been happening from the dawn of time though, from uh medieval times, they always do that though.
SPEAKER_01But um yeah, I think it probably was. I mean there are other trials going on, you know, one particular which I mentioned to you earlier, which is having another trial later this year. Yeah, great great story. I can't wait to tell the full story of that one at the end of it, but at the moment it's still going on, so um, but yeah, definitely I think it had it all like like the headline of my um my substack, uh sex, drugs and snakes. Yeah, it was a nice headline. It had they had the kiss and tail angle, it had loads of uh well bit of drugs being consumed, and um also crazy snakes.
SPEAKER_03Quite a lot of drugs.
SPEAKER_01We didn't really get into that much, you know, MDMA Yeah, and um was like Hennessy and Apple, which was uh Ratfire's favourite drink.
SPEAKER_03It was holding the video that they didn't show. Yeah. Yeah, that's right. Crazy.
SPEAKER_01And uh but also the weirdest bit about the snakes, like remember the question about um Yeah. When they they were all like rushing away from this car park. Where was the snakes? Yeah, did the snakes might have been in the car. So I don't know if you know. Oh actually, uh when you were saying is this the best trail ever cut I mean I guess it's the best rapper trial, but I did like Nana Oppong. Okay. You know that case? Not after not after name. Right, so you know Fox Powell, you know um Travelli's manager? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So he was murdered. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That one, yeah, yeah. And the guy who did it was a guy called Nana Oppong. Oh yeah. That was his fourth murder trial. Yeah. It's you know, he'd been he was acquitted of three other murders and then he was convicted of that one.
SPEAKER_03Um we spoke about that last time you were here actually.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, alright. You know, yeah, also like interviews like TY, obviously, if he would suddenly ring me up and say, Oh, you know, I want to tell you the full story, I would happily interview him. Also, two two other people are quite happy to I quite like to talk to you. One is Digga D and the other one is Fredo. Oh uh I don't think I'm I don't think he I'm on his Christmas list there.
SPEAKER_02You know about you you know about Fredo and that kind of signing, he signed his label and all that stuff. What do you mean so obviously he signed to the an Australian brother? Oh, you always recently. Uh well say recently, what like two probably like a year and a half now?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, about a year ago. He signed the deal a year ago, too?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, a year ago. So has he bought anything out from it?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, he dropped a project like two weeks ago. Dropped a project two weeks ago, dropped singles from that project, linked up with Burnaboy in Nigeria, linked up with um DM.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, remember he went to the yeah, yeah, all this stuff.
SPEAKER_02That's all come from his labels, yeah. Yeah, proper.
SPEAKER_01So that'll be making him money, huh?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, but advance. Yeah, yeah, the label would have given the money in advance anyway.
unknownRight.
SPEAKER_02Because obviously the label's just Australian label. Yeah, and link some and and links them up real life and cool beauty, yeah. But proper like that that's the that's honestly the dream scenario you can get yourself when you're in a situation like Freddie's. Yeah, dream.
SPEAKER_03But then he can't like it's a thing where considering all the problems he has, bro. I'm not gonna say he can't go back to his block, but it's like you know what I mean? Yeah, he's falling out with a lot of men from there, yeah.
SPEAKER_02But he can't come back to the UK by the block, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean, apart from anything else, the people certain people might want to kill him.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's it's crazy, man. And when you was when you wrote the Substack on that Digga D case, like where you broke the news. I don't think you understand how crazy that period of time was in the Substack when you broke the news that Maya Mills apparently slapped Digga slapped Fredo in Dubai, like that was crazy. When you broke that, that was crazy, you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. No, I think just yeah, definitely Chris continues doing what you're doing. Oh, he's very important, you're so important. I don't think you're understanding.
SPEAKER_01Because the thing is, as an outsider, I don't know if you really understand that Digga D is he not making tracks of mocking Fredo or stuff like that, or a little bit, yeah, yeah, a little bit.
SPEAKER_03He dropped in like a month or two though. Yeah, but they're active though, yeah.
SPEAKER_01They're definitely active. Definitely you wouldn't say like come back to London, why you're not, you know.
SPEAKER_03Don't compare me to, but digger D's just come out of prison, so he's already on restrictions. Yeah, he's on restrictions. We have to be careful.
SPEAKER_02He's on restrictions, man. They're always on restrictions. And the thing is, one wrong thing we've been talking about today, you can just get put back and get implicated and something else.
SPEAKER_03And historically, though, Digga D literally he blew up with this whatever and why that was him avoiding the restrictions put on him. Yeah, he managed to make him into hits. That was his biggest moment in his career.
SPEAKER_01I think, word, word, word, kiss, kiss, kiss. Yeah, yeah. Well, should we need a wrap-up for the uh episode? Thanks to tanks and TMC for joining me and have a good good chat about matters uh involving the sex, drugs, and snakes trial, as I'll call it forever, forevermore. And uh let's uh let's keep um keeping an eye on what's going on.
SPEAKER_03100%. Chris, we drinking, do you want to tell them what we're sipping on?
SPEAKER_01Oh yeah, yeah, well the blue stuff. Yeah, the blue stuff. Oh, we should have got a sponsorship, shouldn't we? Oh, we should have. 100%. We'll get one. Yeah, they're not they're not gonna get a name check. And uh since that um interview or discussion was recorded um on the seventeenth of july last Friday. Uh