Is a Comic Crash Coming?

The comic industry is buzzing, but is it about to burst? This week on Beyond the Pull List, we’re diving into the heavy hitters and the hard truths facing our favorite hobby.

​Inside this episode:

• ​Absolute Batman #19: We break down the start of "The Straw Man" arc. Scott Snyder just delivered a shock to the system for the Dark Knight—what does this mean for the Absolute Universe?
• ​The Weekly Pull: Quick hits on The Flash and the symbiotic chaos of Venom: Death Spiral.
• ​The Ultimate Showdown: Does Invincible actually have what it takes to take down Thragg, or are the Viltrumites just too powerful?
• ​The Big Debate: We tackle the elephant in the room—is a comic book industry collapse imminent? We look at the data, the trends, and whether we're headed for another 90s-style crash.

​Are we crazy, or is the writing on the wall? Let’s go Beyond the Pull List!

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:05

Hello everybody, my name is Paul. And my name is Clayton. And you're listening to the Beyond the Pool list podcast.

SPEAKER_03 0:11

Episode five, man.

SPEAKER_02 0:13

Dude, for five episodes, we're doing good.

SPEAKER_03 0:16

I know. I'm impressed with all the people that we're getting listening. We're getting all over the world, man.

SPEAKER_02 0:20

All over the world. We're getting comic book people that are looking at our stuff. This is insane. And now we're recording in what's going to be your baby's bedroom.

SPEAKER_03 0:30

That is true. We have switched our our usual studio of your house to my baby nursery.

SPEAKER_02 0:36

Your baby, your nursery baby room. So we've got comics all over your baby's room.

SPEAKER_03 0:40

If she listens in the future, she's going to be like, Did you really do that, Dad?

SPEAKER_02 0:44

I took a picture of it, so whenever she's like old enough to comprehend thought, I'll show her. We'll be like, see, look, me and your dad recorded in your room before you were born. And she's gonna be like, Who are you? No.

SPEAKER_03 0:55

She's like, Dad, Uncle Paul's talking about weird stuff again.

unknown 0:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:00

Yeah, Uncle Paul's tweaking. He's doing that thing that he does when he watches Invincible.

SPEAKER_03 1:06

Oh, we didn't want to talk about that.

SPEAKER_02 1:07

But um, yeah, we got all kinds of cool stuff. Um, we are recording up here because uh I am going to uh Las Vegas tomorrow um because my movie is playing there, which is unfathomable. I'm terrified.

SPEAKER_03 1:20

I'm gonna I'm gonna strangle you for a second. Yeah? Oh, you're gonna strangle me? Because uh, if you look at our notes, we said before we get started, Clayton had something he wanted to say. Oh no! And I wanted to shout out your movie fragment. Yeah. Uh and I was actually gonna say that you are you won an award. I did. A national award, and you are gonna be in Las Vegas for your movie. Yep. And I can't believe you said that.

SPEAKER_02 1:48

Okay, for the record, our notes say before we get started, Clayton has something. Dot dot dot. And I was like, You have something? He's like, I'm not gonna tell you. I was like, and then you just went into it anyway. Let's talk about me for a moment. Let me talk about how great I am.

SPEAKER_03 2:01

Well, I definitely wanted to shout you out because I I think that's awesome that you put a lot of the work, you put your heart and soul into this movie. I found my script that you gave me. But the movie is called Fragments. You can find that movie on your YouTube at Paul Paul Fine. Yeah, Paul Fine, YouTube.

unknown 2:19

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 2:20

And uh it's a short film. Do you want to tell a little bit about what like inspired that or do you want to talk about it at all?

SPEAKER_02 2:26

Uh sure, yeah. Real quick, like what I um fun little secret. Oh, I I'll get into that in a minute. Um, so the movie is a psychological horror film about um dementia. It is a my my grandmother has dementia, so whenever she had went started when she got dementia, I was very interested in kind of how that was affecting her and how it was like not really like what is dementia and what is it doing, but like how does she feel, right? Like that was what I thought about. And this wasn't in any like I wasn't gonna make a movie about this. I was just genuinely curious, and I came across like this thing on YouTube. I highly recommend to people check it out. It's called Everywhere at the End of Time by The Caretaker. It is a six and a half hour piece of music that simulates the feeling of dementia with music, and it kind of just mimics the the like brainwaves, it kind of sort of, it's like the music is the memory. So when you're thinking about something, right? Like, oh, I remember I walked my dog yesterday, you think about it in the order of events that it happened, right? Right, right. Now think about it as a music. You got to the beginning of a song, the middle of a song, and the end of the song. But what happens when the end of the song plays right there after the beginning, and then the middle of the song kind of cuts in halfway, and then you get messy, like gargle, like mixed up music. That's kind of what it's like. So halfway through the is the more you listen to the album, the longer you listen to it, the slower it gets more distorted. And you become familiar with the songs because it makes you familiar very early on. Okay. So you'll hear clips of every song individually later on, and it's like, whoa. It's really weird. But it was one of the first things that when I listened to it, it genuinely terrified me. So, you know, the movie ended up being a script I had to write for my class, and it was like, hey, we need you to write. Like, and the the prompt of my script was like, Oh, if a person wakes up in a room with a calendar, there's a string of X-out days on the calendar, one day is circled, that day is today, and they have no memory of the day. That was my prompt. And my one of my friends was like, You should make that something with dementia. And I was like, Huh. Can I steal that? And he was like, Yeah, go for it. And then I just use all of the research that I had already been conducting to make this movie, and now it's an award-winning film. It is unfathomable. It has won uh it won I I won Best Director for it. My lead actress, Casey Williams, won uh lead actor at a horror festival for it. Um it got third place in student films in Alabama, and it just won the award of excellence at the I think it's B F A B E A Bright Las Vegas.

SPEAKER_03 5:01

You've already looked it up.

SPEAKER_02 5:02

You've already, dang, you know more about it than I do.

SPEAKER_01 5:04

You want to come with me? Absolutely, let's go.

SPEAKER_03 5:07

Let's do it.

SPEAKER_02 5:07

Um, but yes, I fly out uh tomorrow. So when you're listening to this, if you're listening to it when it comes out, I will already be there.

SPEAKER_03 5:14

Um so if you're in Vegas, go track down Paul.

SPEAKER_02 5:17

Yeah, if you're in Vegas, be like, are you Paul, the guy that made fragments I listened to to the comic podcast?

SPEAKER_03 5:21

Because there's nobody else in Vegas.

SPEAKER_02 5:23

Yeah, but there's like three people in Vegas. Yeah, WWE's gonna be up there, so it's gonna it's good. There's gonna be a lot more this weekend. Um, but yeah, I'm very excited. I'm very nervous. I've never been this far away from home by myself. Um, you know, we live in Tennessee, so Vegas is very far away. Um, but you know what? Screw it, let's do it and see what happens. So that's that's my goal.

SPEAKER_03 5:41

I think it's gonna be awesome. I I that's really what I want to do. I want to shout you out because you gave me the script very early on, and you're like, this is just my movie. Like, well, you actually wanted me to be a little bit more.

SPEAKER_02 5:51

I was about to say, I was gonna tell you, I was gonna say the secret, the the exclusive insider of fragments here only. Clayton was gonna be in it. And I had I had uh, as I did with every person I had on it, I went to him and I was like, hey, I need somebody to act in this. I'll be willing to kind of I was like, he's not really an act, he's never acted before, but I'm willing to walk him through it. I just wanted fresh faces for my film um because we kind of would go through the same people over and over again. And I went to him and he read the script and he was like, This sucks.

SPEAKER_03 6:18

I don't want to be in a I read it and I and I don't like horror stuff. You already know that. I'm a big weenie.

SPEAKER_02 6:26

Yeah, he's he's a very big weenie. We we we played Slender the Arrival at my house when we were like working together at the combo store, and I just we didn't even get through the the the tutorial, like we hadn't even seen Slender Man yet, and I went behind him and he freaked out.

SPEAKER_03 6:41

I've never forgiven you for that.

SPEAKER_02 6:43

It seems like yeah. Get out of it. Okay, okay, I gotta go.

SPEAKER_03 6:50

No, but but I read it and I was I was amazed. Like it's a really good script. It came out even better, but the only reason I did not join you on that production was because I'm not gonna spoil the movie if somebody was to go watch it, but there is some scenes that I thought, well, if I'm gonna be preaching and stuff, I don't want people at church to be like, wait a minute. Yeah, that guy just taught me about Jesus and now he's in this evil movie.

SPEAKER_02 7:16

Yeah, no, yeah, and and like, because um, of course, it didn't turn out like because when the movie finally got it, you were like, it wasn't as bad as the concept art. It wasn't, but I was like, but the goal is always the concept art. Right. So like my goal was to make it look like that, and the fact that it was lesser was just kind of a you know a time thing. Because actually, um, you know, my makeup artist had to dip halfway through and I had to get a new one. So um, which uh if you want to listen to more about that, listen to our Real Takes episode where we talk about fragments because I go into a full in-depth discussion of the film. But it we had a great time, it's filmed in my granddad's house. Um he did pass away, so we got to film there before we sold the house. So it's a little thing for me right um continuously capture that house. But yeah.

SPEAKER_03 7:56

You know, and one thing, one last thing I want to say on this is that you think of more most like I get you were a student when you made this. So I wasn't. You think of like student short films as like really cheap, really poorly put together. Like that that's a stereotype, but yours, man, yours is a full-length, like high production movie. Like I you honestly couldn't tell.

SPEAKER_02 8:20

Well, also, like I had it had been wrote for over a year, so it had already been like through the stages of like the script has been out, like I've had time to think about things, I had time to contemplate things, I had time to change things. Like there was no rush in writing this. And um I sat on it for a long time. Like I I actually when I wrote it, I was like, um, I had told myself, I was like, hey, I'm gonna because in our department at school, we had to make a our final project, like our thesis was a film. We had to make some kind of a film. And I I remember I told my teacher, like, hey, I'm gonna do this as mine, and he was like, There's no way you're gonna be able to do this. Like because he loved my script, but he was like, This is just too much. Like, there's no way you're gonna have time. And luckily, all of the cards were dealt perfectly to where my last semester, all I had to take was that class. I didn't take any other class, so I put a hundred percent of my energy and a hundred percent of my time in that in that film. So I had a little bit of advantage over other people because other people in my final class were like doing other classes and stuff. So like I definitely had a a a step ahead. But I just I like I had a production plan. I had like a lot of people were editing. Like, I remember I got there the morning of that it was due, and I just went in there, plugged my USB in, threw it on there, and left. Everybody else is there like editing and freaking out, and they're like, Oh my gosh, like you know, and it's just like it it made me feel good because even after the fact, like I did it with um Newman Productions. Um shout out to them, they they helped a lot with it. If it wasn't for them, the movie wouldn't have happened. Um but um, you know, like it just I it just worked out very well, you know, and it just you know, and actually, if it wasn't for me going in there, I wouldn't have met. I actually uh this is a little insider. I know one of the people who works on Invincible because of uh me going in there that morning and just hanging out while everybody was editing. Yeah, one of the girls in my class was like, Oh, my uncle edits uh Spider-Verse in Invincible, and I actually got his number, so I'll text him every once and I'll be like, Hey, that was great, good job. And he's like, Thanks, man, and then you know, so I mean that's that's awesome.

SPEAKER_03 10:19

But but I wanted to definitely shout you out because you deserve that.

SPEAKER_02 10:22

I appreciate it. It it it took a lot of time and energy, and the the problem now, I don't know what I'm gonna do next. Like, I'm like, how do I be do something better than this? And this is my baby, man. Like, I I put a lot of time into this four years probably total into like thinking and planning and everything, right?

SPEAKER_03 10:38

So I wanted to I wanted to do that first before we got into any of our reviews or I appreciate that so much.

SPEAKER_02 10:44

That means the world to me because I'm so scared about tomorrow. You'll be fine.

SPEAKER_03 10:48

You'll be fine.

SPEAKER_02 10:48

What if I get what if what if I get kidnapped, Clayton? I'm 24. What if I get kidnapped?

SPEAKER_03 10:54

I will sell your collection.

SPEAKER_01 10:56

No, it's even worse. What are you doing?

SPEAKER_03 10:58

I will sell your collection to pay the ransom money.

SPEAKER_02 11:01

It's just like that's the reward. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Reward for Paul, his entire comic collection. You just keep it, you're like, I'll just keep this because he's gone forever.

SPEAKER_03 11:12

You you come back and you're like, where's my collection? Give me my books, Clayton.

SPEAKER_02 11:16

Um, but we do have an action-packed episode today. We do, we do. We have the book of the year. I would honestly want to say, as of right now, it's the book of the year. No, no, no, no. Flash. Uh Captain America. Um Absolute Batman. Absolute Batman is our book of the year. So we are gonna talk about it first, and then we you have some stuff uh you want to talk about. Uh from your pull list, I have like one thing that came out this week. Nothing too big, and then we are gonna talk about this week's episode of Invincible. We just watched it together, and oh boy, we have a lot of stuff.

SPEAKER_03 11:50

Oh boy. That was not a sound vibe.

SPEAKER_02 11:54

I'm about to get we're about to get covered. They're gonna be like, oh yeah, d take him down. Take him down. Boy, that's that's bad idea.

SPEAKER_03 12:03

That's actually really good though. It's good. So so, anyways, uh, I'm gonna jump into a book real quick. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, because I don't have a whole lot to say about it. Um, and then we'll get into what we normally talk about absolute Batman and Venom and all that stuff. So I picked up Flash 31 by uh Ryan North and Gavin Gertie. And it was I I used to collect Flash, and then I dropped off. It wasn't I just wasn't I enjoyed the Joshua Will Williamson run, but I didn't enjoy the run that came after. So I picked up this one. This is a fresh start, uh, even though it's a th issue 31, but that's no big deal.

SPEAKER_02 12:38

I see you got it from Midtown Comics.

SPEAKER_03 12:40

I actually did not. That is just the bagging board that I decided to use. Oh, okay. I was like, oh, you got that from Midtown Comics. But uh love Midtown, they're great. Yeah, New York star. Yeah, shout out to them. Yeah, they're not sponsored, we're just fans. Um but anyway, so this issue of Flash is really interesting. The art is incredible.

SPEAKER_05 12:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 12:59

Um and so anyway, so the premise of this story is that the Flash, Wally West, there is like a social media trend right now. And if um whoever he can save and they get a video of it will receive money. So, for example, there's this lady who jumps off of a building and she films herself as the flash saves her, and he's like, What why are you filming? Like, I understand if you want a selfie, but like, why are you filming me? And she's like, Oh, well, there's this conquest con conquest. Conquest. Whoa, crossover. Stand ready for my arrival.

SPEAKER_01 13:36

Stand ready for my arrival. Flash fast. Yeah, you can't run fast enough. He can't get away from that.

SPEAKER_03 13:42

But uh, there's a contest, and whoever gets saved by the flash doing the most daring thing receives$10,000. So for the rest of the issue, people are standing in train track uh train tracks, people are jumping off of buildings, they're like standing in front of cars, they're doing all this, and like the the premise is well the flash is gonna save us, so uh you know we have nothing to worry about.

SPEAKER_04 14:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 14:04

And so he struggle he kind of struggles in this issue of like, I don't really want to save these people because they're intentionally putting themselves in harmful way just for me to save them, uh, and so they can get$10,000.

SPEAKER_02 14:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 14:16

But like I have to save them. So uh it's it's an interesting concept. Uh normally I do not like, and uh the comic fans listening will probably want to murder me for this, but I don't normally like Ryan North's story writing.

SPEAKER_02 14:32

Interesting.

SPEAKER_03 14:33

Uh he is currently doing Fantastic Four, and I think he did a horrible job. But that's my hot take. Yeah. Listeners may disagree.

SPEAKER_02 14:42

Do you want to say why?

SPEAKER_03 14:44

It just um, you know, it might be the conversation that we've had about Al Ewing. It kind of feels a little too campy. Okay, a little too cheesy. And I like cheesy because I like Superman. Right. But I don't know, it just feels but I really like this. I think this worked with The Flash. Yeah, with the Fantastic Four, I don't think it works so much because I think we've kind of developed. And it might also be because I really hate Johnny Storm's new design. Have you seen it? I've not seen it. He's got the he's got a mustache that goes all the way down to the side of his lips. Oh not like a Viltramite mustache. I don't know, like a biker mustache.

SPEAKER_02 15:16

Like a it's not a unibrow, is it? No, that's your that's on your forehead.

SPEAKER_03 15:19

So that's on your forehead.

SPEAKER_02 15:20

Um I know what you're talking about. I like love handles or something. Like I don't know. Yeah, yeah, like that. I get what you're saying. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 15:26

Um, and so I don't like that. And I just I don't know. Like I said, feels too cheesy. I just I don't I don't I don't vibe with it. Yeah. But I really like this. This was really good. It sounds interesting.

SPEAKER_02 15:37

Now, does has anyone died in this book? Not yet. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 15:40

Not yet. But there's like a computer guy who has put out ads to to get people to do this. Yeah. And at the end of the book, somebody comes up behind him and says, Hey, we're gonna increase the odds. And he's like, Are you sure? The flash is just here. And he's like, Do it. And so now there's a new challenge being sent out there, and that's kind of how the book ends. I think the new issue comes out next week.

SPEAKER_05 16:04

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 16:04

I think it comes out the same yeah, it does. It comes out uh issue 32 comes out with uh Superman Spider-Man next week.

SPEAKER_02 16:11

Oh, okay, cool, cool. Yep. Um which it's looking like I'm gonna be feeding you because they just released a variant cover of uh who's that girl?

SPEAKER_03 16:20

That was Francis Manpul, so that's Power Girl and MJ.

SPEAKER_02 16:23

And MJ is a venom, so we might be getting another Power Girl other girl girl's day out after Frank's date with MJ. Paul better be in. I've never wanted Paul to be in a bit more so I can get something to eat. So I can eat. I just eat in front of ENC.

SPEAKER_01 16:38

Yeah, I'm just not allowed to say, can I have some more videos?

SPEAKER_02 16:42

No, no, stop.

SPEAKER_03 16:45

Uh uh, so I'm gonna rank it. Yeah, yeah, go ahead.

SPEAKER_02 16:48

We have we have been we have been we have we apologize, we have been not ranking, unfortunately. We have been forgetting.

SPEAKER_03 16:54

A reminder to our listeners what our ranking system is. Yes. We have off the pool list. That means this is absolute garbage, you don't want to look at it anymore, get it out of you.

SPEAKER_04 17:03

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 17:03

Yeah, on the pool list, it's a good book. Um, you're just collecting it for the story, you're enjoying it, you're vibing with it, but you know, not your favorite thing in the world, but decent, you know. And then you have Beyond the Pool List, which is the best of the best. Best of the best. You want every variant, you want every hot toy, you want everything.

SPEAKER_02 17:22

Oh, that sounds familiar. You want a first printing of issue one?

SPEAKER_03 17:29

And actually, Paul has his first printing of Absolute Batman here with us today. I got it.

SPEAKER_02 17:34

He actually ended up I'll uh yep.

SPEAKER_03 17:37

Uh so we will we'll talk about that in a moment.

SPEAKER_02 17:39

But before we get into the best book, let's talk about something that's not that great. Uh Venom 257. Um, this is my uh personal pull list book. Um, it is okay. Um, it is it's still the um the death spiral thing. It did have one good moment that I like. There was one moment like I actually took a picture of it on my phone. Um it had this really good dialogue between Carnage and Torment. Now, Torment is bonded with Carnage, and he's trying to kill Aunt May and um is it Mary? It's Mary's aunt.

SPEAKER_03 18:14

Oh, I know who you're talking about. Um goodness, I can't think of her name. But it's Mary Jane's like aunt too.

SPEAKER_02 18:20

Um yeah, it's better than M, I feel like. Um anyway, but um so Carnage and Torment are now bonded together, and they're trying to kill uh Aunt May and uh whatever her name is. And um they're at the feast, because that's where they work, right? And he comes out and he's like, We're gonna kill you, and he Torment is having a hard time dealing with Carnage. It seems like they're not really working together very well. Okay. And they run away because Agent Anti-Venom steps in and he starts fighting them, and the anti-venom hurts Carnage. And Torment's like, What the heck, dude? I thought you said you were like unstoppable. And he's like, Yeah, well, not to everything. And then Torment's like, oh, so you're a liar. And it's like, okay, so this is not good. And we get to this point where Carnage uh kind of trails off from Torment. Torment takes care of anti-venom while Carnage is like threading off to the side, still bonded with, still like connected to Torment to go kill Anmain. Anna, it's Annie. Yeah, Anna Watson. And they she he Carnage corners them. Well, on the way there, Carnage starts killing other people.

SPEAKER_01 19:24

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 19:24

And it's like, I you know, I want to kill people because this is fun, and just starts killing everybody. But this starts affecting Torment because Torment apparently, I don't know if it's just like a power thing that he has or some something, because we don't still we still don't know much about Torment.

SPEAKER_00 19:36

Right.

SPEAKER_02 19:37

But he when you kill somebody, it automatically starts a new spiral. So now he has to attack that entire family line. So now that Carnage just going on this killing spree heading after uh Anna Watson and Aunt May, now all these new spirals are coming up, and Torment's hat panicking because he's like, There's too many spirals. I can't do I can't kill all these people. Like it's too much. Wow, okay. So that's interesting.

SPEAKER_03 19:59

That sounds like a good content.

SPEAKER_02 20:00

So Carnage has cornered both of them, and finally, before he can kill them, Torment yanks Carnage back over to where he is, and he's like, What is wrong with you? Like, like this is not this is not how we do things. And I have I took a picture of the page because it's such a great it's so this was a really cool d line of dialogue. Um Torment says, uh as the sp see, no killing. Killing is indiscriminate. It is or no, killing is not indiscriminate. Uh it is precise, none to at done to achieve a specific goal. As the spirals end when they feel alone, I feel less alone. And then Carnage says, Tell it to your therapist, buddy. We're both here for a reason to end people, we're the same. And then Torment says, Wrong, you are chaos, I am control. And I was like, that's kind of cool. I I dig that line. Um, and then he freaking uses the shocker gauntlet to blast Carnage in the face. And then MJ as Venom and Peter Parker jump in as Spider-Man and they're like, What are you doing? And um Peter's like, Well, he has shocker gauntlets so that's gonna mess with you. You go save Aunt May and Annie. I'm gonna stay here and fight Torment. And Torment uh uses the Carnage Symbiote still, I think. I don't know. He does something and actually like wraps Spider-Man up in tendrils and then just stabs him. Oh wow like with like a bunch of tendrils. And Spider-Man falls down and he's he's like dying, and then he blasts MJ with um the shocker gauntlet, knocking her out. So we've got this problem, and the Carnage Symbiote's on the ground saying to Peter, hey, we both need help right now, and I need a host. Which is weird because it's like, I is he not bonded to I don't know. And then the Carnage Suit bonds with Peter, ending the book with Spider Carnage. He is back and he is going to do something. A gimmick, maybe, I don't know. But um the the story is okay. It is an okay book. This again, this still feels like the most venom book ever. Or this feels like the most venom story that we've gotten still, um, since like Allywing has been writing, but man, none of the characters are great.

SPEAKER_00 22:04

Right.

SPEAKER_02 22:05

Like all the kids, like Dylan, I I made a comment while reading it to you. I was like, man, Dylan, this isn't Dylan. Dylan, when he was first introduced in uh, you know, the Venom Cates run, right? He was he was a kid who was like kind of in his own head. He was a troublemaker a little bit and he's trying to find his way in the world. Right. And now he's just a I hate everything kid. He's like, you know, dad, you suck, and I hate you because you're my dad and you're lame. Like that's what he is. Paul, you suck. Paul, like you should die. Oh, Paul's dead. We need to avenge. Like it's it's so dumb. And it's just it it's like it it feels like the character consistency is very off on the characters in this book. And man, I'm just so ready for this to be done. Right. I'm so ready to be for this to be done. And this leads into another conversation that you and me started to have on the phone, and I was like, man, I actually really wanted to talk about this on the show. I don't know if you want to do that now, if you want to wait.

SPEAKER_03 22:58

Well, let's wait. Okay, you're gonna do it. Because neither one of us ranked these books.

SPEAKER_02 23:02

Oh, you're right.

SPEAKER_03 23:02

We wait, you didn't rank your book? I didn't rank my book. I'm so sorry. It's okay. It's okay. I'm the worst. No, no, no, no, no, no. No, no. You sure?

SPEAKER_02 23:12

Sorry. No, you're fine. Um, you go ahead and I'm I'm ready to rank mine. You go ahead and rank yours.

SPEAKER_03 23:16

I'll say Flash is on the pool list right now.

SPEAKER_02 23:19

It sounds like an on the pool list. It sounds like something that um it's very interesting. I like the the ordeal with like the oh, everybody's doing it, and he's he can't get to everybody fast enough. Right. I think that's really interesting, and it's an interesting challenge for Flash.

SPEAKER_03 23:31

Yeah. So on the pool list for me. What about Venom for you?

SPEAKER_02 23:34

Um, it's still on the pool list. I think it it's close to being off.

SPEAKER_00 23:38

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 23:39

It you know, I will say Death Spiral has been the most like I I'm interested to see where this goes, but also it just it feels so gimmicky, man.

SPEAKER_00 23:47

Right.

SPEAKER_02 23:47

It's like, oh, in the last issue, Paul dies, and in this issue, uh, we're getting spider carnage, okay. But like the inconsistencies of the symbiotes having to be bonded to somebody for it them to not die is is annoying. And like you have that, you have like it's just I I'm I'm ready. I'm I don't know, man. I'm just I'm ready for things to like all the character development that we got in those years of like 2018 to 2020, right, is all gone for all the characters. And it's it it it's really discouraging and disappointing.

SPEAKER_03 24:19

I will say not reading Death Spiral, not reading Venom. What you just described in this issue sounds like the most interesting alleying venom there has been so far.

SPEAKER_02 24:31

Yeah. Because especially like, and again, this is tied with the Spidey Office too. Right. So this isn't just Al, like this is a lot of people contributing to this story. Because man, everything that Al has been associated with alone has been awful. Right. Like it's been Madame Mask and Venom, Venom, they call him Venom J because Venom and then the MJ. So they call them Venom J. Because it's like Venom MJ. It's so dumb. Um, but like all of his stories have like I I've said it time and time again that like this the book that Al was writing does not feel like a Venom book at all. So it's on the pool list. I did get a pretty sick cover. I didn't get the cover A, but I got this one cover of Gold Venom Fighting Carnage. Um, very it is a cool cover. It's a cool cover, but I'm eh, you know, whatever.

SPEAKER_03 25:16

So there's one book that I want to mention real quick, and this is a segue into our next topic.

SPEAKER_02 25:21

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 25:22

This is Superman Unlimited 12. I have utterly despised this series up to this point, so I've not been pulling it. However, however, there has been teases of bringing back John Kent, Superman's son, as a young boy again. Because um for our listeners who may not know, John Kent was Superman's son, and he was roughly about the age of 10 for uh since basically since the beginning of his introduction for several years. A lot of fans really liked him as being like a young kid. He was really great with Damien.

SPEAKER_04 25:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 26:00

And then Brian Michael Bendis, who is fantastic with Ultimate Spider-Man, who absolutely sucked with Superman, uh, aged John Kent up to like 18, 19. And there's just been a lot of stuff with John Kent since then, and nobody's really been happy. They just want to go back to John Kent as a kid. So Superman Unlimited has been teasing the return of young John Kent. And Superman Unlimited 12 came out today, and John Kent as a young boy does return. And he has a very sweet moment with Lois, and she's all excited to see her boy young again. Keep in mind, like the 18, 19-year-old Superboy is also here.

SPEAKER_00 26:43

Right.

SPEAKER_03 26:43

Um, but he's like disguised his face as Tomorrow Man, which is the dumbest superhero name ever.

SPEAKER_02 26:48

Tomorrow man. Yeah. What are you coming tomorrow to save me? Right. Like, well, then tomorrow it's like then you're today. Right. That's dumb.

SPEAKER_03 26:57

Yeah, really dumb. But it's Dancelot, so like what can you expect? Dan Slot did great on Spider-Man, but yeah, he's a hit or miss guy.

SPEAKER_02 27:04

I started to hear about, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 27:05

So, anyways, so John Kent's back and he goes and meets Lois. Well, Batman and R and Damien just happened to be there. And Damien's like, John, you're back, because they were best friends. They even had their own series together, Super Suns. And and so they're back together, and um Damien is like, Man, you're back. And he's like eyeing him the whole time. And then crypto kind of growls at Superboy, and so then the next page goes, and it's Damien in the Batcave, and he's hammering bat uh batarangs, and Batman walks up and he's like, What are you doing, son? He's like, I'm making kryptonite batarangs, and Batman's like, Why? And then Damien says, Just in case, father. And then Batman says, like a dog, good boy. And walks away. So, like, they're teasing that John Kent, this young John Kent, is evil. Yeah, and like Damien knows it apparently, and they're trying, they're probably gonna tell this story, and it's so predictable. I can already tell it now. Yeah, they're gonna frame this story like, no, I'm the real John Kent, like I'm just a boy. And then Damien's like, no, you're evil, and then everybody's gonna be against Damien.

SPEAKER_02 28:15

And then it's gonna come out that that's the truth.

SPEAKER_03 28:16

He's actually evil, yeah. Yeah, it's so predictable. So I I read that today and I was annoyed with it because it feels like a gimmick.

SPEAKER_05 28:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 28:24

It's it's just this book is not selling, this book sucks, it's not even in the top 50 sellers right now. And so we're gonna put this character that everybody wants young again. We're gonna put it in there to boost these sales.

SPEAKER_04 28:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 28:36

And so editorial is is doing this, and they're basically giving this this ultimatum, like, buy this book if you actually want John Kent back. But if you don't buy it, then we can we can tell like nobody actually wants this. And we were talking about this that Marvel does the same thing and did the same thing with the dreaded book that shall not be named, Ultimate Spider-Man. We said we weren't gonna talk about it again, and here we are. But they did the same thing. We can't escape it. They they did the same thing with that. Marvel did. They said, well, you guys want Peter and MJ Mary. Well, we're gonna give it to you. And if nobody buys this book, well then nobody's gonna then then that's that's just proof to us that you guys didn't actually want this. Right. So it it's very gimmicky. It's it's like they're trying to sell I mean I know that's the point of comics. Like you want people to sell, but it's just such it's almost like rage baiting. You're almost like bu buy this or you don't get what you want, and then even though you get what you want, it's gonna suck and it's not exactly what you want, anyways. There's there's a catch.

SPEAKER_02 29:37

Right, yeah. And yeah, because I because when you we we we talked on the phone earlier and you were talking about this, you were like, I just this this drives me crazy. And I was also like, I think we should talk about this on the show, yeah, because there's also part like I I was watching um, you know, my my my frustration with it on Marvel's end is kind of a little bit different than like just story perspective. It's more of like number manipulation. Oh yeah. Yeah, because it feels like like I don't know what's going on with the comic book industry right now, but like everything is just so off. It is, you know, like it's it you have that problem, right? Where it's like you want everybody wants to see something. And in our case, being Spider-Man fans, everybody wants Peter and MJ to be together.

SPEAKER_03 30:18

Right.

SPEAKER_02 30:18

But we'll never get that again. No, like it that's done and over with. And um that really sucks.

SPEAKER_03 30:25

Right.

SPEAKER_02 30:25

That really, really, really sucks.

SPEAKER_03 30:27

Actually, on that on a note real quick. Yeah. So I was I was making a post about stuff like this. Yeah. And I recently realized that Peter Parker and Mary Jane's marriage lasted 20 years. Okay. Next year will be 20 years without them being married. So 20 years being married, next year will be 20 years without them being married.

SPEAKER_02 30:53

So do you think they'll do something with that? Or do you think that's a good idea?

SPEAKER_03 30:56

I was just saying, like, that's we we had them married as long as we have had them not married. Yeah, which is insane.

SPEAKER_02 31:02

That's that's that's really awful. But anyways, you were saying, but yeah, no, but I mean, but like, you know, we want that and Marvel won't give it to us. You know, um people want Eddie back as Venom, but they're not doing that. Um I I don't know of any other big examples uh mainly because of those few, but like one of the things that I wanted to talk about is just how like the the we're having this huge problem with like m manipulating numbers too. Like Marvel's doing that really badly with like um you know, comics. I was watching um I was watching this one guy who he always like talks about the new stuff coming out, and he's like, This is gonna suck and it's awful, and he had gotten to Queen in Black.

SPEAKER_00 31:42

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 31:42

And he made this point and it stuck with me, and it really broke my heart a little bit because I was like, that's so gonna happen. He had said, like, you know, he also doesn't like Al Ewing. He's like, I don't like Al Ewing, I don't think he's a good writer, I think he's wrote good stuff, but I don't think he's a good writer. And he said, you know, oh they're doing Queen in Black, and he's going through all the variant covers and he sees that they're doing blind bags for it. And he's like, Oh, great, they're doing blind bags. That means that this is gonna outsell King in Black, which means that Marvel's gonna put roses at Al Ewing's feet when he did nothing.

SPEAKER_03 32:12

Dang.

SPEAKER_02 32:12

And I was like, that's true. That's absolutely true. Like, Marvel is competing with DC right now because well, DC has absolutely absolute books, right?

SPEAKER_03 32:21

Right, and they're consistently top 10 books.

SPEAKER_02 32:24

Yes, they're consistently top 10. I think absolute DC has sold over 12 million absolute titles total. Over 12 million copies. That's insane, and they reprint it like hotcakes, and those sell out. Yeah. So you have that happening at DC, and then Marvel's like doing these blind bag things where of course all these people who you know, like you've got the Pokemon card craze, right? Everybody's opening packs, and it's gambling. Everybody's gambling.

SPEAKER_00 32:49

Right, right.

SPEAKER_02 32:50

And so now you have all these people, well, I'm gonna buy 50 50 blind bag uh, you know, sealed books because I could maybe get a secret sketch.

SPEAKER_00 33:01

Right.

SPEAKER_02 33:01

And they they buy all these books and it makes the numbers skyrocket and it makes people go, Well, look at how good this book did. It beat Donnie Kate's book.

SPEAKER_00 33:10

Right.

SPEAKER_02 33:10

Like, you know, like oh look, Queen of everybody likes Queen and Black. Look at how much it's selling. It's like no, people are buying it because they want the covers. And if you actually sold the covers without those blind bags, you would make a lot less money because people would just buy the cover they want. Right. Like normal comic book salespeople. Yeah, you know, and it like I don't know, man. It just like he he said that and that bothered me because I was like, out of all of our Al Ewing, unfortunately, is now the longest running Venom writer. Really? Yes, he has wrote Venom since 2021. It is now 2026, which is five years. Donnie Cates wrote him from 2018 to 2020. So Donnie Cates had him for three three, maybe four years. It might have ended in 2021. Okay. But I think it did end in 2021. Okay. Um, but yeah, or Al wrote 2021 or 2022. Okay. So he but he regardless, he's the current the longest running Venom writer. And it's like he's the longest running writer. No one likes the book, and then on top of that, they're doing blind bags for all these releases. They did it for Ultimate Endgame, which sold like crazy because of the it didn't it didn't hit the top charts though. No, it still didn't hit the top charts, but like it sold like crazy just because people are buying blind bags like crazy, trying to profit. And and like that leads to this next problem, right? Is that and I know we're supposed to be reviewing comics and we're going off on this tangent, but like no, this is a comic podcast. You know, then we've got this other problem of like resellers.

SPEAKER_03 34:34

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:34

You know, I I just bought my first I bought a first print of Absolute Batman, number one, because we're gonna be meeting Scott Snyder here in the next almost not even a month away, like um, May 2nd. Three weeks. Yeah, we're gonna be meeting him very soon. And I was like, if I'm gonna get a book to get it signed, I might as well go ahead and buy it. Every copy of that book, that book came out what a year ago, maybe?

SPEAKER_03 34:53

Yeah, yeah. I mean, yeah, because we're not even issue 24 yet. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:58

And that came out a little over a year ago. It is it is a$200 book now.

SPEAKER_03 35:04

Yeah, that's insane.

SPEAKER_02 35:05

Tell them about the the$400 book that you oh my gosh, oh my gosh, you know, uh absolute Batman 19 came out this week, right? First of all, you pointed this out to me.

SPEAKER_01 35:13

It has 17 variant covers, which is in the no, I think we're in the 70s.

SPEAKER_02 35:19

70? Oh, wait, I think we're in the you are right, it is 70. It's like 70.

SPEAKER_03 35:23

I think it's like 74. 74 variant covers you're checking right now. 74.

SPEAKER_02 35:26

Yeah, 70. Wow, you got that number, remember.

SPEAKER_01 35:29

74.

SPEAKER_02 35:31

Um better than six, seven. Oh, but yeah, 74 variant covers. One of those covers, before the book even dropped on Tuesday afternoon, it was already selling for 400.

SPEAKER_00 35:46

Right.

SPEAKER_02 35:46

And it was it was just a glossy cover. I don't even think it's the best cover. I think the Dragata covers are the best in my mind. Oh, yeah. Just cover A. And I think there's like a secondary cover of Batman holding his like knife ear knives. Right. Um, those two are my favorite covers, but yeah, this it's selling for$400 on eBay. And it's like, what are we doing? Because the market's gonna crash.

SPEAKER_03 36:06

Yeah, so speaking of that, these are the variants for Absolute Batman just from issue one. Issue one has 72 variants. Issue two has seventeen, issue three has thirteen, issue four has nineteen, issue five has fourteen, issue six has twelve, issue seven has sixteen, issue eight has thirteen, issue nine has fifteen, issue ten, twelve, issue eleven, nine, issue twelve, eight, issue thirteen, thirty.

SPEAKER_02 36:33

So there's where the number, yeah, that's the thing.

SPEAKER_03 36:35

Issue fourteen, twelve, issue fifteen, thirty, issue sixteen, eleven, issue seventeen, thirty-two, issue eighteen, forty-seven, and absolute nineteen, seventy-four.

unknown 36:49

Seventy-four.

SPEAKER_03 36:50

So, like, this is the problem. Yeah, right? Like, we were talking about this when we were talking on the phone that um in the 90s, this is what happened. They produced so many variants for all these covers, and it caused a crash, not just because of that, but because collectors at the time were thinking, this is gonna be worth something. This is gonna be the death of Superman. It's it's it's it's the most valuable comic ever. Yeah, and people were flocking to it and they printed so many variants, it crashed the market. Yeah. No, and now you you can buy a copy of The Death of Superman and use it as toolpaper because that's what it's worth. There's so much.

SPEAKER_02 37:25

Yeah, there's like that Spider-Man Torment number one. That book was overprinted like crazy back in the day. And they had they had the silver, the it's it's the cover, it's the metallic cover where he's crouched on the webbing. Right. There's the silver cover, there's the gold cover. I remember and I remember when I was like a teenager, I found that.

SPEAKER_01 37:40

And I was like, oh my gosh, this is gonna be worth so much money.

SPEAKER_02 37:42

And it's not, it's you can get it anywhere. And and on top of it, like I I had this convo with my dad because I was showing him my absolute bad man. He was gonna get me one for my birthday, and I told him, I was like, Oh yeah, I went ahead and bought a first printing. He went, Oh, well, I was gonna get it for your birthday, but I guess not. And I had told him, I was like, Well, I needed it now because I'm gonna go meet Scott, so I have to have it by then. And um, he had asked me if I was gonna get it graded so it'll be worth something, and I'm like, that's the thing. Even if you get a book graded, because it's it's again the stuff that's happening is happening with Pokemon cards is slowly moving over to comics, is that like if you get a book graded, if it's not a nine eight near mint condition, it ain't worth anything. You're actually throwing money away getting it graded. No, I understand. If you have like a book and you're if it's older, that's different. That's different. Old books are different. New books, if if you if I took absolute Batman number one and I took because it's not gonna be a nine eight. No, it's got it's got a couple of things on it. I got it for a little bit of a cheaper price, but um I'd say like a nine four nine six. It should still be a nine, I think. Yeah, it's just the spine has some wrinkles and then it's got like a tiny, tiny little chip in the corner, very tiny. Yeah, it looked worse on the pictures on eBay, right? And then when I actually got it, it looks way better. Um, but even like if I got it graded, it would come back maybe a nine four, and that's not worth anything. No, because no one wants it unless it's a nine eight. It it's it's it's a lot of people are gambling and buying these thinking that they're sitting on hot gold, right? That they're gonna resell later, and it's like, oh, this is gonna be a million, this is gonna be my like it's all an investment. And something that I've learned growing up collecting comics is because we all go through that phase. We did we all go through that this is gonna be worth so much money, I have to collect it, blah, blah, blah. And and again, I I collect variants, but I collect them because I like the way they look.

SPEAKER_03 39:20

I like to collect you like to decorate with them, too.

SPEAKER_02 39:22

Yeah, I like having all the different covers. And um, but in the end, it's like you know, a book is only worth something. A, it's only worth what somebody will pay for it. So if you can't sell it, then it ain't worth nothing. This absolute Batman sitting in my collection, and I don't plan on selling it anytime soon, so it's not worth anything. Right.

SPEAKER_03 39:39

And you know, honestly, in 10 years, the absolute stuff might be done, and yeah, and that book might be worth nothing.

SPEAKER_02 39:45

Exactly. And and you know, it's just it's crazy that like this is all happening. And like another big one that just happened, like a big shift that happened recently, the ultimate Spider-Man omnibuses. Those things went from like what they're 60 bucks, 70 dollars, which is retail. I mean, they're it's a big collection of all of them. Right. Now, what 300, 400? Like, and it's not even the new stuff, it's the old stuff. Right, right. So it's like, why are we why are why are these now all of a sudden super expensive? The single issues, the OG first print single issues aren't worth nothing. No, you can get those for five bucks all day, right? Except for like issue. Except for like issue one, yeah, yeah. But everything else is like super cheap. But like it, it's it it what is happening to this collect like this market, right?

SPEAKER_03 40:30

It it's unfortunately, I've been talking about it for years. It's gonna crash. It's just a matter of time of when it's gonna crash. Right. And and it I don't know what this is gonna look like because the last time this happened, and we we kind of talked about it too, but the last time this happened, Marvel went bankrupt. That's why Spider-Man went to Sony, the Fantastic Four went to the Fox, and so did all these other characters. That's why we had that problem in the 90s. And and this is what kind of has saved the comic industry right now. I think that the movies are so popular right now. Yes, I know the big debate around superhero fatigue is a thing, but people are still going to these movies. I mean, the hype around Doomsday and Spider-Man, they're they're not going away anytime soon. People are still gonna go watch them, people are invested, but if that was to go away, oh, the comic industry would crash. Oh, yeah. Quickly.

SPEAKER_02 41:24

And and what sucks is a lot of the comics that are being made now aren't their own stories. A lot of it's piggybacking off of the movies. Like we're literally what in next week, I think, or maybe in the at least in the next few weeks, we're getting a Spider-Man brand new day comic, which is just they're just making it's got Punisher in it, it's got Hulk in it, because what do you know? They're in the movie.

SPEAKER_00 41:44

Right.

SPEAKER_02 41:44

And it's like it, it's it's like, are we not because again, you're supposed to go to the movies, right? And because the the idea behind it is, oh, we'll go watch this movie. Oh, well now I want to get comics about oh, I just saw Iron Man. Well, now I want to get Iron Man comics. Then you go to the store and you get the comics because you want to learn more about it. But people don't want to to continue to watch the movies in the books, right? You know, like an a another example of Venom, right? Like, imagine someone going to see the Venom movie and then going to the comic store and picking up Donnie Kate's run. Right. And being like, Whoa, this is way bigger than the movie. Right. You know what I mean? Like, that's what comics are supposed to be, but now it's just um like the comics are supposed to inspire movies, is now the other way around.

SPEAKER_03 42:23

Movies inspire comics, and and that's just but on that same note, like you're you're talking about how these stories aren't even like their own stories anymore. There are so many tie-ins and crossovers. And unfortunately, Donny Cate's Venom does fall victim to this, and this is why like I I do like Donny Cates' Venom, but it is a little bit lower on the list for me because he crosses over with War of the Realms.

SPEAKER_02 42:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 42:44

Isn't there another event he crosses over with?

SPEAKER_02 42:46

Uh War of the Realms.

SPEAKER_03 42:48

There's something else I thought he crosses over with.

SPEAKER_02 42:50

I don't think he crossed uh I don't think it crossed over with anything else. But you I know we we both agreed that like Venom Island wasn't that great, Venom Beyond wasn't that great. Right.

SPEAKER_03 42:59

Um, but everything else around it is But none of the nonetheless War of the Realms it does tie into War of the Realms.

SPEAKER_02 43:04

It does. There's a there's a three there's three issues that tie into War of the Realms that's kind of like why are we doing this? Right. I personally like that, but I can understand I drool when Venom's good. Right, and it's like this is the best ever.

SPEAKER_03 43:16

But like Superman is tied was tied into DCKO, and like we're not getting the rest of the Superman story, but now we have to jump from okay, we had this story, but there's a big event. We've got to tie everything back to this big event. Yeah. And I love Joshua Williams and Superman so far. Um, but that's the problem. There's been like three events absolute power, DCKO, and the story he was writing was great, but he had to finish it up so that way we could go to the tie ins for the event, and then we can come back to the story. But wait, you can't finish the story because we got another tie in.

SPEAKER_02 43:48

Yeah, because we got another thing coming. Yeah, prepare for the next event. I mean another thing. We're getting that with Ultimate, you know. Right, right. The ultimate universe, 'cause they killed the entire universe to then just bring it back in Ultimate Armageddon. Is that right?

SPEAKER_03 44:00

Something like that.

SPEAKER_02 44:00

And it's just like, guys, come on. Like either keep it or don't keep it. But quit quit making events for everything.

SPEAKER_03 44:06

And I think that is honestly what has saved the absolute universe so far. Is that so far DC has not had an absolute crossover where they have been like, well, we need to cross it over with something else. Yeah, I know Batman and Wonder Woman crossed over. But that had a purpose. Scott Snyder wrote that with purpose.

SPEAKER_02 44:26

Yeah, because he was trying to get something to help Waylon, who is Killer Kroc.

SPEAKER_03 44:31

Right. Um and so that had purpose. But beyond that, like there's been nothing that's like crossed over. And that's, I think you're getting this full story without it getting convoluted with other things tied into it. Yeah. And and I think that's another problem that the comic industry is having is that these can't they can't even just tell a full arc without the next arc being a tie-in. Right.

SPEAKER_02 44:54

And and that's my thing is I I'm I'm just I really wonder what's when is it gonna give? Because like it I don't know if it's just whoever's in charge. I don't know if it's just people not doing their because nobody does research anymore. No. Because again, uh what I've said reading Death Spiral is there's a lot of moments in that book where they get the characters wrong, you know? Lore lore hanging low, you know. Freaking, if you don't know what I'm talking about, there's a there was uh a little editor's note in one of the apps or in one of the Death Spiral books saying like, uh if if look call back to Venomore from your uh this is coming from lore loving low because Nick Lowe loves lore, and it's like how would MJ know those things that she just said because there's no way she would have known that. So clearly you don't like lore. Right. I don't know, it's just it's just we we have constant lore inconsistencies. People are wanting these different changes with characters, and it's not happening. No, they're they they rub it in your face actually. They're like, wouldn't you like Peter and MJ to get back together? This throws it out the window, you know.

SPEAKER_03 45:53

It's it's it's and if you don't buy it, you don't actually want it.

SPEAKER_02 45:55

And yeah, and you don't know because we might do it. So you better collect it because if if you miss out on that issue, it's gonna be worth something. It it's it's it's all crazy.

SPEAKER_03 46:04

Yeah, and I get like you're trying to sell mu you're trying to sell books. But honestly, I think if you were to do what the fans are wanting, marrying Peter and MJ again, then then you would sell more that way.

SPEAKER_02 46:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 46:18

Rather than be like, you want this thing? You want it? Come get it. Oh, oh, I'm gonna take it away.

SPEAKER_02 46:22

Buy a blind bag, buy a blind bag. You might get a you might get a cool variant, you might get a ratio. Oh, keep buying, buy another one, buy another. You want to gamble? Do you like gambling? Jingle, jingle, jingle, jingle, you know. Right. It's it it's it's rough. But I'm I'm honestly, I'm at this point where I'm ready for something to give because man, like, and I don't know if this is just me being a boomer or me being old, but I'm just like, these comics just ain't what they used to be, you know.

SPEAKER_03 46:46

But I think it would take something, I mean, well, think about this. Like when the 90s comic crash happened, yeah, it sucked for people who held on to their comics and continued to collect. But think of the Renaissance boom we had in the early 2000s. Think of the books that we had, like everything. If you've ever gone back to read early 2000s comics, uh they're great. Ultimate Spider Man, Captain America, uh, Iron Man, which shaped the MCU movies. Um, even like Superman stuff from the early 2000s is good. Like these books are great, but that's what comes after the boom. You have to go through that period of suffering. And I don't want we're not saying like we want anybody to lose their job.

SPEAKER_02 47:26

No, no, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_03 47:27

But we are saying like it's coming.

SPEAKER_02 47:29

Yeah, we it it's c something is coming. There definitely something's gotta give because this this like honestly, like the gimmicks, the the crappy writing, the dangling of keys in front of your face, like this all has to stop. And we we gotta go back to that point where when are we gonna get writers like Donnie Cates with Venom or like Robert Kirkman? Robert Kirkman, who is like, I'm very invested in these stories, and I want to tell a story. I don't care what you want, I don't care how you want your money. I'm gonna tell this story and hopefully it'll make you some money. But I want to tell a story.

SPEAKER_03 48:05

This is exactly what Todd McFarland did, right? Yes, we've talked about this in the 90s.

SPEAKER_02 48:10

I like Spawn?

SPEAKER_03 48:11

Yeah, I like Spawn? Sorry, I really like Spawn. I like Spawn. But Todd McFarlane, I I do too. Fantastic. So in the very beginning of of the the 90s, the Marvel Spider-Man was not selling, right? It was it was basically bottom of the barrel. Yeah, yeah. And Todd McFarlane came on and he's like, hey, I want to draw and do I want to do Spider-Man. Yeah. And Marvel's like, well, frankly, we don't care because it ain't selling. Do whatever you want. And he does, and people love it. And it blows up.

SPEAKER_02 48:39

Yeah, Torment. Spider-Man Torment. Well, no, no, that was before, but he started doing like a 298, 299, the introduction of Venom. Yep, all those things happen.

SPEAKER_03 48:46

And and and crazy. And then Marvel's like, no, you can't actually do stuff like this.

SPEAKER_02 48:51

Wait, well, you're you're messing with our the status quo. You're damaging the status quo. We gotta keep that the way it is. And it's like, who cares?

SPEAKER_03 48:57

Yeah, and he had an interview recently where he's like, Do you not want to make money anymore? Like, I you told me to make you money. I'm doing the thing that makes you money, and now you're telling me to go back to what didn't make you money. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 49:08

You're telling me to do the thing that didn't work. Right. And the thing that did work is what's getting you money. You know, people like these things, you know. Right. And he what's great is he ignored them and he just kept doing it. Yeah. Because he loves the character. Right. And that because he he had said, like, I know he, I think I I think we've seen the same interview. I think probably because he had said, like, he said the only person he was entertaining was himself. Right, right. Because he's drawing and he's like, wouldn't it look cool if Spider-Man did this, or would it look great if this happened? And it's like that that should be the way it works, you know. Like you you should have these amazing relationships with your with your writers and your your colorists and your right artists, and like, and it just it gets to the point because even like you know, I I listened to a lot of behind the scenes stuff on the Venom run with Donnie Cates and he had talked a lot about editorial, and he said that there was just a lot of moments where they're like, hey, you guys are doing a great job, just do what you want.

SPEAKER_00 49:54

Right.

SPEAKER_02 49:55

You know, and we'll we'll look over it when it's done and we'll we'll fly what we can and whatever. But like, even then, like they they just work together because they're passionate about it. There's no passion in comics anymore. It's all numbers. Right. And you know, like we're tired of zero uh we're tired of issue number zeros, we're tired of issue number one, every other issue. Yeah, like oh, we gotta refresh it, do another new number one. Like, we're tired of it. Just tell a good story that matters to the character and that feels like that book. Right. If you want to write a book about Spider-Man, don't write Venom and put Spider-Man characters in it. If you want to write a book about Superman, don't do a flash book and just write Superman in it when you can. Right. If you don't think you can write a book good for the character, then don't do it. Just don't. It's there's no need in it.

SPEAKER_03 50:40

Right. And we talked about this last time in the last episode. We talked about two things that I want to mention here. First, the role of an editor. The role of an editor should basically be like, hey, you're this is inconsistent with the lore, like, let's correct this, we're we'll fix this. And maybe what about this? We want to try this? Okay, no, no big deal. All right, this is what I'm suggesting. But the other thing is like you need to have love for that character, and that's gonna show the love you have for the character. And what you're describing, Al Ewing does not love Venom, but Donnie Cates did.

SPEAKER_04 51:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 51:11

And what we're gonna get into in just a second, I promise, is absolute Batman. Right. You can tell Scott Snyder loves Batman. Yeah, you can tell he's pouring everything he has into this, and that's the difference between oh, this is just another comic, and or dude, can you believe how crazy this issue was? Like the moment we read it, we text each other.

SPEAKER_02 51:32

Well, and also, also, what's great is the fact that he's getting a universe that's separate. It's not the normal universe, right? Right. Like, which is kind of what Ultimate Spider-Man should have had, because it's like, hey, this ain't the mainline universe. Do whatever you want. Right. Nothing matters. Is you know, because like, of course, you can't like like okay, in the amazing Spider-Man comic book, you can't have Peter kill somebody. Right. That's probably not something you should do. But in Ultimate Spider-Man, do it. Maybe someone's trying to attack his kid and he has to make that choice. Why does it and like let us see that in a book that's not the mainline story, right? Because it doesn't matter. Right. Like that's why I love Spider-Man Rain. Because it doesn't matter. When when the book is over, it's like that that's this universe. This does not tie into anything else. This doesn't matter. Like this is its own thing. I can read this and still go back to what I love, you know.

SPEAKER_00 52:17

Right.

SPEAKER_03 52:17

But but even with the main universe stuff, they there needs to be some give. Like you need to still be able to tell stories in your main universe that challenges your character. Yes, you can love them, but you want to see them progress. They don't they can they don't need to stay at the same point at uh at all the time. Yeah, right. Right? There needs to be character progression in a story. So there needs to be something in the main title, but like you said, do it if you want to try it in a different universe, do that. But you need to also have a little bit of it in your your main line books too. But editorial right now. No, we can't we can't mess with the status quo. Spider-Man is always gonna be a 27-year-old man child.

SPEAKER_02 52:57

We gotta keep using chasm and in every book. And we've gotta use, you know, like where's Paul? Bring Paul back. Is he dead? Oh, bring him back to life. I like him. I want to keep him. You know, it's it's all the same. We gotta we can't let Venom be his own thing. We've gotta we've got to bring him back. He's gotta be a Spider-Man character. We'll bond him with MJ. That that makes it weird. You know, it's it's all it's just it's awful. But something that's not awful, and I'm very excited to get into it. It's time, Clayton. How is it? It's time. It's time for absolute badge.

SPEAKER_03 53:39

Yeah, dude, that was awesome. You did surprise me. Man, that is the best.

SPEAKER_02 53:43

Like, I have a fun soundbox. We don't own that. That's not ours. We did not make that. That is a from the show, don't copyright us. Yes. I have to say that.

SPEAKER_03 53:52

Honestly, I think that theme works the best with this book, though. It does. It does.

SPEAKER_02 53:56

I was trying to add the uh, I tried to add the uh the br the bat wave and it wouldn't work, but like, because that does appear in the book. It does. Um so we get a little bit of bat wave in this book, but man, what another issue. And this issue is definitely the start of a new big arc. Oh, yeah. You know, like I will say the past few issues of Absolute Batman, they've all been great, but it's definitely like we're we're we haven't gotten a big arc like Abomination. You know, that's Bane. You know, so we're we've kind of been in this small, small little window for a little bit, but now we're getting into something big. And this this arc is called The Straw Man.

SPEAKER_04 54:30

Oh man.

SPEAKER_02 54:31

I love that title. You you showed me that uh because they had a preview on uh League of Comic Geeks, and I checked it out, and when I saw that I was like, that's such a good title. Dude, that's such a good title.

SPEAKER_03 54:41

Even the four pages of previews that we get are like we read it, what, Monday? I guess it was Monday, and we were both on the phone reading the preview, and I'm like, dude, dude, that is insane.

SPEAKER_02 54:51

Yeah, because you've got so uh the book starts out with um some farmers in a field. This is a little bit aways from Gotham. It's about what about it says it's like a couple six or seven miles. Six or seven miles from you know Gotham. Um and um we're cool kids that read comics. Um but's up, my fellow 19 year old.

SPEAKER_03 55:12

What's up?

SPEAKER_01 55:12

What's up?

SPEAKER_02 55:13

How do you do, fellow kids? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um but uh but we we get into this book and we have these farmers and they're out on this field, and Scarecrow steps out of the cornfield that has not been cut yet. They're cutting the corn and they're they're they're harvesting it, and he steps out and stands in front of the corn whatever machine tractor. Yeah, and he just stands there and the dude's like, Hey, what are you doing? And he goes out to confront him and he and and Scarecrow's smoking a cigarette. And while he's smoking, they're like, What's wrong with you? And he calls them both by name, and he he tells he talks to one guy, he's like, Yeah, like this dad's sleeping with your wife.

SPEAKER_03 55:51

And like, like But first they're like, Where'd you get that mask? Because it's uh it's his literally has buttons for eyes.

SPEAKER_02 55:58

Yes, and his mouth is sewn together, and he has no shoes on, and his feet, bro, his feet are like two foot long, like the feet are the long feet, bro. That's a five dollar foot long right there. Like, give me something about give me another man. Scarecrow toad, man. It's like absolute joker, it's like this giant abomination. Absolute bane is just like big, big man. Absolute Mr. Freeze is like Slender Man, and then it's just absolute scarecrow is just big feet.

SPEAKER_03 56:25

It's got its own OnlyFans, dude.

SPEAKER_02 56:28

He could make some money, you can make some banger money, man. He'd be making big bucks. Shoving them feet ball like like it's it's it's like the Arkham Arkham Asylum like scarecrow missions, but it's like Batman, I have my feet. It's like instead of using the big like uh syringe hand, it's just his feet stomping on the on the area.

SPEAKER_03 56:54

But but anyway, so you're exactly right. He does say, hey, this man's sleeping with your wife, and the other dude, I mean, he's just like, What? No, he wouldn't.

SPEAKER_02 57:03

Oh my gosh, he just gets angry and he he he hits his cigarette and he puffs it right in his face. He blows it right in his face. And I think that's the fear toxin. You think so? I think that's a sick way to do that. If that is like I've never seen a scarecrow just smoking a cig, and he's just like he blows it in your face like a douchebag, and that makes you be like, I'm gonna kill you now.

SPEAKER_03 57:26

You know? So he throws his buddy in the harvester, and uh in the background you're seeing crows fly into a plane, and they're getting chopped up by the propeller. Yeah. And the farmer realizes, I just threw my my best friend into the harvester, and he's he just blood and guts.

SPEAKER_02 57:52

Yeah. And you're like, whoa, you know.

SPEAKER_03 57:54

And uh, and then he he he's just panicking, and then the plane crashes on top of him and blows up.

SPEAKER_02 58:02

Yeah, it's like and then and Scarecrow just walks away and he's a splash page. Yeah, it's a splash page, and he's like humming a song, and it's like, what is happening?

SPEAKER_01 58:10

Four pages in. Four pages in, and we're we got two guys dead, and like, what is going on? Yes. That's a the great great hook.

SPEAKER_02 58:19

Great hook, yes. Um then Yes, yeah. I'm gonna let you go ahead. You go you go for it, man.

SPEAKER_03 58:23

Well, you got you got some stuff to add because I'll forget. So we go into the issue, and I I really don't like what happens next. I I will say that. Okay. So what happens next is Batman is driving around in the not the Batmobile. The bat the bat nasty.

SPEAKER_02 58:40

The bat nasty.

SPEAKER_03 58:42

I hate that.

SPEAKER_02 58:44

What's it called? The bat nasty. Yeah. Well, Harley calls it that Harley calls it that. But it's basically I hate that.

SPEAKER_03 58:53

It's basically a ball, yeah, and it's got the bat symbol, his bat symbol, on both ends. Right. So it can flip and still continue to drive. Yes. And that's exactly what happens. He there's a barricade of cops trying to stop him, and he runs into them, and the car flips over, and when it does, it continues to drive, except so it just rotates.

SPEAKER_02 59:11

Yeah, the ball with him in it rotates, and then the the fenders will reverse, like they'll either flip up or down depending on which way he's looking, and then it'll drive. Right. Which is really cool.

SPEAKER_03 59:18

Yeah, it is really cool. I don't is this the Batmobile? I don't think so. It has to be like the Bat Cycle.

SPEAKER_02 59:23

Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_03 59:24

Because the Batmobile is in the annual.

SPEAKER_02 59:26

Right, but people are saying that like we're gonna get a we're gonna actually get the Bat like someone uh I feel like someone had said something of like, oh, in this issue we get the Batmobile actually gets its name or something.

SPEAKER_03 59:37

It can't be. It's not the Batmobile, that's like it's like a motorcycle thing. Maybe, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 59:41

It's like it's almost like a Formula One car. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like cause he goes in the alleyway and then they all come out, start taking all the red hood members, start taking it apart, and then he puts like this like uh homeless person stuff on. They drive away and the cops are like, Where'd he go? And he's like, and he points.

SPEAKER_03 59:59

But you know, I was thinking about that. How is it that Mayor Gordon is the only person who recognizes this six foot eight, four hundred pound guy, and all the other cops like walk past the six foot eight, four hundred pound guy, and they're like, totally normal.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:11

Yeah, like high school, and then yeah, yeah. Commissioner Gordon, or not Commissioner Gordon, Mayor Gordon is like, I can tell. You're Batman. How do you know? You're literally like 800 pounds, and you're you're you're literally Hulk. Right.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:25

Like yeah. So from there, uh the story then goes to Batman and Mayor Gordon, and Mayor Gordon tells him, I have something I have to tell you, and I'm really sorry about this. And Batman's like, What what are you t what are you talking about? You know, what is it that you have to be sorry for? And he's like, It's just it's it's it's in these files, and I have to burn these files. And I'm so sorry, kid.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:56

And he's he's he's kind of tweaking a little bit. Yeah, he's kind of freaking out.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:59

And Batman's like, Gordon, what is going on? Yeah. And he tries to burn the files, and then crows come and attack him attack him, and he drops the files. Batman picks them up, puts the fire out, and it says Project Batman. And in the files, we don't see anything else what they say, but it focuses on one on two words. The zoo.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:18

The zoo, which was the first arc. Its title was called the zoo. That's whoa, you know what I mean? Yeah. Like you tell I get chills just thinking about that again. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:27

Man, thinking about the Joker maybe being behind all this.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:31

Bro, that's that's wild. Um, but but Mayor Gordon, or yeah, Mayor Gordon is he's like, I he's like, I'm sorry, Bruce, I'm sorry. And he starts to to jump off the building. And uh Batman's like, no, and he throws his one of his like bat wing hooks and grabs his coat, but he still falls through.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:50

But it makes you think for a second that he's he saved him.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:52

And he looks over the edge and you see him laying there dead over all like, and all these people are like, That's Mare Gordon, and they look up and they see Batman.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:00

They're like, Batman pushed him! And it's just like, oh, and all these people in the building across are like opening their blinds and they see, and then dude, this is what gave me chills about this is that he looks across and he sees Scarecrow smiling with his cigarette and he blows it. Yep, and Batman and him lock eyes, yep, and then we go on to the next page.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:20

Whoa. Like that was like that was crazy. That's insane. And again, it's it's that thing of like absolute Batman is not afraid to go there. Yeah, and I'm so, I'm so, I'm glad, but I'm also nervous. I'm so glad that this book is just allowed to get that go that far. Yeah, like this book should be allowed to just like, hey, yeah, kill, kill Gordon, throw him off a building, and make make it look like Batman did it. Yeah. And like you got you've got that, but then you've also got like I'm I'm I'm nervous because I'm like, I hope DC doesn't like, well, we this is a gym and we need to make sure it's polished, and then they ruin it.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:56

Yeah, you know, I don't think they will, but I don't think they will because they are they've let us go this far.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:01

Uh so I really hope, but like, man, mayor, like nobody's safe. Nobody.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:07

Nobody's safe. Yeah. That they said that very clearly. That like, hey, every villain is not just, I'm gonna, I'm gonna pound you to a pall back, man, you know. Start pounding, you know, but it it's very, it's very, very put out there that nothing is as it seems, and every villain is like a threat. Even Scarecrow. Because like we don't know anything about him. Right. But he's got some weird thing going on, right? We don't know anything about Joker, but we know he's got power, right? Financial power, and and the smarts, and to like a supernatural, maybe. And yeah, definitely something supernatural. But like, you know, but we we turn the page, and that's about the last we get of Scarecrow, which which my my only two downsides to this book. I do have two little downsides. We don't get a lot of Scarecrow stuff, which I'm okay with. Which is fair, we're building up.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:00

Really? I didn't think this one at was as short.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:02

I I felt like it was just because which is probably a good note, is that I this book ended, and I was like, Are you serious? It's like the end of an episode. You're like, come on, I'm I want more, you know. So, and I I guess that's just you know, that's that's not a good negative to give it, but I'm gonna give it as a positive. Right. You know, so that's all we get with Scarecrow. But then we go to get to meet Deathstroke.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:23

Not yet. Oh we're missing uh we're missing a small little part that also broke my heart. Oh, whoa, whoa. Bruce reunites with Waylon. Oh, I forgot about that. Yeah, you're right, yes. And and Waylon has shrunken down. He's almost human, but he's still killer crossing, yeah. And they're talking and they're in an alleyway.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:44

He Weyland gets his attention and and Bruce walks up and just hugs him. Yeah, the first thing he does.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:49

And and and they're talking, he's like, I'm so glad you're back. I'm so glad this thing is working. And and Wayland looks at the necklace that he got and he's like, It's just taking some time, but it's getting there. And and we're in this together, Bruce, and and remember all this other stuff that we did together. We're we're gonna stay with it together. But then Bruce says, No, no, have a good life, Waylon. And leave him.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:15

And just leaves him in the alleyway. Because Waylon can't come out because he's he thinks he's a freak. So he can't come out. And we get a little bit of a flashback onto um what happened after that. Uh after the which issue was it?

SPEAKER_03 1:05:27

It was the five I think it happened back in issue fourteen like when it flashed back. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:32

And we were seeing like the boxing match with Wayland and and everything, and like them helping each other. Yeah. But it goes back to the aftermath of that and how Bruce is like, you know, he he came in and helped Waylon, and then they're like, Hey, you know, no matter what, we always work we always help each other, you know. And here in the end he's like, Nah, man, I'm done. Like, and he leaves, and it it's it's so heartbreaking because it's that same thing that we got in the last issue where he's he's cutting off people, which by the way, we don't know anything about Martha.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:59

That is true.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:01

So is she dead? She might be, but I don't know. They didn't show it. So they showed Gordon. Gordon's dead. He's for sure dead. Unless, unless it's some weird fear thing. You know, it could be a fake. That was my theory. Is like, did Batman see the crows? Because he doesn't acknowledge anything about the. Yeah, so that's a good point. Because also Gordon was smoking a cigarette.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:22

Yes, he did.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:23

I noticed he was smoking a cigarette. So I'm I'm having all these like fairies theories. These theories of like Are you also smoking the fear toxin? But I'm having all these theories. Gosh damn it. Your fan theories. Yeah, my fan theories on like is he, is he like, because Gordon, again, he's always smoking a cigarette, and in this he's smoking, and like, is that affecting him? Is that giving him like it's is Batman just like is he seeing things that Batman's not seeing? Because again, I was like, I don't, and I could be wrong, but I don't feel like Batman noticed all those crows. So I'm thinking like that is. No. So I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:06

So then that goes into what you were about to describe with Deathstream. Mayor Hill is announcing, well, uh uh Gotham, I have unfortunate news. I love New York.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:24

Is that a daredevil? Yeah, that's why it is the mask vigilante known as Batman. The mask vigilante known as Batman burnt my feelings and we must kill him.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:36

No, but Mayor Hill says, I'm sorry to report, Gotham, that Mayor Gordon is dead, and I have taken over as the leader of Gotham. And and he's going on, he's like, Me and me and Jim were good friends, and we were basically family, and blah, blah, blah, blah. And that's when Absolute Death Stroke comes in and pushes him out of the way and says, Yeah, that's enough of that, and starts to um give a little speech. Gotham, you have this masked vigilante known as Batman. He is a criminal, and we are not gonna stand for that. And today I am proud to announce the Robin Initiative. And he announces that they are gonna save this city from from Batman from all the other crimes that are happening.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:29

And you see you see Joker there signing their adoption papers because they're all they're all orphans right that Joker took in because you know he's got a thing with orphans and kids and whatever that's all about. We have no idea what's going on.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:46

Right. So you see it's it's Stephanie. So she's spoiler in the main universe. I can't think of her s her last name, Stephanie something. You got Duke Thomas, who is signal in the main universe, you have Jason Todd, Red Hood, and then you have Tim Drake, who's Robin, and then you have Dick Grayson, and that is your five Robins.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:09

Five Robins, and Deathstroke is leading the Robins as a task force against Batman.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:15

Right. And the issue ends by saying, These are your new weapons, and it's the Robins, and they're looking up and they're like, Whoa, and then it ends. Yeah. You don't get to see.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:24

Oh, yeah, because they're like, uh like get suited up and they're like, we're already suited up, and they're like, Those aren't your suits.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:31

And then it's them looking up, which I'm assuming is what is now the is a the officially released cover of issue twenty where there are these giant mechs. Right. So I'm wondering if that did you see the other variant that came out? There was three variants.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:44

Yes, I seen you because one was the Dexter Soid where they're all standing on top of the mech.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:48

That's the new one that I don't know if you'd seen. Yes. Um, it's Batman on the very top, and they're all kind of sitting around on the mech. So I'm wondering if there's going to be some kind of a relationship build there, especially when they know who their uh father, parental guardian, because it says parent or guardian where Jack Grimm signs. But just the fact of like you have Deathstroke, who his arm is missing, both of his legs gone, his face is missing. Like he's got pieces of his face sitting on a table that he has to put on every day. Yeah. And it's like the fact that this guy is is deathstroke, we've never seen a deathstroke that's this. You know, and we actually see him fully suited up on the cover, which we don't see in the issue. Right. Um, which I'm sure it's coming. Right. But like you've got Joker or Jack Grimm in charge of so many things. And he's this, he's this handsome guy who's in charge and we like him. And and um it's really cool because on the cover he is uh he's got the uh he's got like a little pen, the R pen. Yeah, um for the Robins, and it's like this book is awesome.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:49

Have you seen I think it was Scott Snyder who posted it on his Instagram when he did the cover reveal, and his caption or something was, after all, what is a Batman without his robins?

SPEAKER_02 1:10:59

Yeah. What is a Batman without his robins? So whoa. Yeah. You know, and and yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:06

I remember when we first kind of were talking about this issue before it released, you're like, Yeah, I might have Scott Snyder sign issue 19 if I like it. We'll we'll see. I'm like, dude, we like every issue. Every issue is so good. And we read it and we're both like, dude, that was insane. Yeah, yeah. I would say this is setting up to be my favorite. Like all the issues that came between 14 and now, like you said, we're kind of like mini arcs. They're had their own like kind of self-contained story. But this one has been the first one that we have read since probably 14. That I have been like, I need more, give me more right now. Like the last issue was good. I wanted to know what happened, but this one is the first one I'm like, I think I need it now.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:46

Well, and also you gotta think Batman's had this really big problem recently of the city just loving him. Yeah. And he hates it. He hates that they're looking at Batman as not a feared being that is like, oh, he's our hero. And now what do you think the city's gonna think? Because they think he's a murderer now.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:02

Right.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:03

That he killed this guy. So yeah, his image is back, but also like he's turning his friends away, which we we know coming in the future that we're getting uh Penguin and Two Face. Yeah. Yes, which are whoa. Like uh Two Face Two Face looks okay. He doesn't look super crazy. No, Penguin looks insane. He has these canes that are machine guns, yeah, which is super exciting, and his face is so messed up.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:27

I think they Scott Snyder described Absolute Too Faced as DC's Punisher. Okay. Yeah, so I think that's the it's the the take they're gonna do on that. Okay. Uh so that's kind of cool. Yeah. Um and we also got confirmed, Scott Snyder confirmed, that Absolute Superman and Absolute Batman will cross over in November of this year.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:47

Yep. So that'll be I guess will that be after this arc? I don't know how many issues are gonna be in this arc.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:53

Yeah, but well, you gotta think if issue 20 comes out in May, and how and then November's not till the 11th month. So we will we'll have what seven issues? The straw man article. Or six issues, I guess. Yeah. Um so it'll it it has potential to last for quite a bit. Yeah. And then they're supposed to meet Absolute Joker and Absolute Batman are supposed to meet what is it, issue 21, I think. Okay, so it's coming up soon.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:19

Which is the penguin issue, is that not right?

SPEAKER_03 1:13:21

I think so. But that cover I don't think has officially been revealed. I think it's just concept art.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:25

I think they just have the concept art. Because if you go on League of Comic Geeks, you'll see the concept art of uh that'll probably be a variant cover. Probably, yeah. Um because those are really sick covers. Yeah, I'll definitely get them. Yeah. Um but um I yeah, because this book is and it it's so good. And I and you you mentioned like this is probably the best arc that we've been the most excited for. I agree. Yeah. Because when I when I look at the cover of it, right, it this is the first arc that feels different. It feels corrupt, it feels po like I don't like when books get political unless it's their own universe political. This is its own universe political. And now we're getting into a villain who has this huge presence in Gotham and has this these huge like this huge reach of what he can do. And now he's sending all his own or because like again, I have no clue how what Joker is. And we just know that he's dangerous, but I I'm very excited for them to finally meet because I think it's gonna be really cool when Batman meets him and meets the real him, and it's like whoa.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:29

And and don't forget, like, Alfred and Deathstroke are supposed to have a Darth Vader Obi-Wan style relationship. Oh, yeah, you're right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So they're supposed to have this relationship already, anyways. So that'll be interesting to see.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:40

Yeah, and then we still have to we still have to think about what's coming with um Harley Quinn and Alfred, because both of them are trying to also have their own thing with Batman because Alfred has been tasked to kill Batman, and also Harley Quinn has wants to take him out.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:57

She wants to I thought she wants to use him for something.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:00

Um and then and then we now have to figure out what project Batman is.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:05

Now we have to figure out what project, but yeah, and man, if if this is a thing of like Jack Grimm has had this thing situated, man Bro.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:17

Like the very brother.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:19

Listen, like the fact that that is like I don't even know what to think about that.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:24

Like that even that expands the Joker to something we have never seen before. That is a level of manipulation.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:31

Yeah, never well, because if he is immortal, right, if he is an immortal being that has lived forever and ever, whenever Batman was little, what was he trying to was he trying to create that?

SPEAKER_03 1:15:42

Right, and and for what purpose?

SPEAKER_02 1:15:44

And why, why? Yeah, why would he want to create Batman?

SPEAKER_00 1:15:47

Right.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:47

You know, I mean, you know, you could think about it as he tried to create, well, but also I don't think he because the whole point of Bane's arc was Bane was trying to get a replacement Bane. Right. And he was like, Batman is the man. Yeah. And then Batman's like, I'm not the man. And then he puts him in a dump truck and throws him to the beach. You know, so he's like, I'm the man and you're sludge. But yeah, dude, this book, um, I'm so ready to rate this thing, man. This book is a for sure beyond the pool list. Oh, yeah, absolutely. We got Dragata drew this issue again, which I I love it. I hate that he's kind of on and off with this a little bit.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:26

I think he'll be on now for this art.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:28

He'll probably be on for this art, but the last few issues he hasn't. Like uh, I think issue 14 was the last book he drew, and then 15 was somebody else. 16 was Dragata. Wasn't it? Maybe? I don't know. I th maybe, maybe, I don't know. I don't maybe not. But then no, 16 was not Dragata.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:44

Because they did the crossover.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:45

They did the crossover, yeah. And then 16. Yeah, then 16 was Dragata, and then 17 and 18 were not. 17 and 18 were set with somebody else.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:52

Which usually when a big comic does something like that, that usually means that they're given time for the main artist to get caught up on on scripts and stuff.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:00

Right, and they're letting him do this next big arc. And if this is a big arc as it seems, yeah, man. Like, I don't know. I'm thinking I think I might have this might be one of those I have to get Snyder to sign. Yeah, I think so. Like, and I don't know which cover I'd get, because I like the main cover, but I also like the the c the cover with the knife ears where you can see Scarecrow's reflection. Because that was actually the reveal of Scarecrow. Right. That was the first cover is like, oh, they're Scarecrow, and then you had all your social media people being like, This is Peak, oh my god, this is Peak, you should buy this, and it's like, brother.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:27

I I think so two things I want to mention, Absolute Batman. I think if you are not reading comics and you don't know where to start, absolute Batman.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:36

100%.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:37

If you if you you just want to read comics for the first time, you want to collect comics, or you just want to have something, um, then I think absolute Batman is your book.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:47

100%.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:48

Another thing I want to mention real quick, for all of you out there who are buying Absolute Batman physically, we have a question for you. Absolute Batman 19. If you have the cover where Batman is holding his knife ears, does yours have an orange dot on Batman's forehead?

SPEAKER_02 1:18:04

Yeah. Please com this isn't like a bait to comment thing. No. Actually comment and let us know because we have I I bought one and I had took it home and I was like, oh man, there's an orange dot on my cover. Crap. And I went to the store and I like looked at it, I shined a light on it. And I'm not usually like my cover, I like my covers to be pristine, you know. I don't want them to look bad. But I had noticed that and I went back to the store to swap because I was gonna ask my local comic store if I could swap it for the same cover. And the other covers had it too.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:32

Or he only had one, so it's the other one that he had also had the dot.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:35

And I was like, But it's just a tiny orange dot. Yeah, the regular cover is does is not supposed to have it. Right. So we're like, what happens?

SPEAKER_02 1:18:44

Yeah, is that like a misprint thing? Is that like an editing thing? I don't know. Leave a comment if you have the orange dot variant cover for absolute nice.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:52

And if it is a misprint, it's gonna shoot that value up.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:54

Yeah, this thing's gonna be worth$600,000. I'm ready. I'm ready to make that money. I should go back and buy the other one.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:00

That problem we were talking about earlier, we're now part of the problem.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:03

Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is the uh orange dot exclusive variant. Yeah, this was a misprint, dude. Um, I think I'll sell it for probably at least 50,000. Yeah. You know, I might I might go down, I might go down to$49.90, but you know.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:17

But we're we're actually just genuinely curious. Like, is it a misprint?

SPEAKER_02 1:19:21

And again, it's the cover, it's the Nick Dragata cover where he's got his bat ear blades and he's got his hands and then and the X and you see Scarecrow. If you have that cover, please see if that is on there. And um, you should make an Instagram post about that. I should. But like, do you have the do you have the misprint? Is this a misprint or are we just dumb?

SPEAKER_03 1:19:38

I will unintentionally cause this book to skyrocket. Yes, it's out of part of the plan.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:44

We're gonna be millionaires, Clayton. We're gonna make so much money, and I don't have to work anymore. Money. Money. Yeah. Well, boy.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:59

I knew you, you gritty little mouse. Um, but yeah, so there is our comic book reviews for the day, but we're not done.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:06

We are not done. Because we have to review.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:12

Are you sure?

SPEAKER_03 1:20:14

Yes, dude. Episode six.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:17

Is it six or six? No, it's seven. Is it? Maybe. I think is it six or is it? No, stop it. Stop it. Six seven, six, seven. Hey, he sent me that meme of Oliver, and he's he's like, he's like, Oh, what's your name?

SPEAKER_01 1:20:32

Oh, my name is Lobster.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:34

Ooh, what's your number?

SPEAKER_01 1:20:36

Six seven.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:37

And he starts, it's such it's brain rot. I'm so sorry, everybody. I just did all that on on live.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:44

That's that's a meme is like when that invincible brain rot hits in 50 years, and it's like, are you sure?

SPEAKER_04 1:20:50

Are you sure? Are you sure?

SPEAKER_03 1:20:52

But it was it was episode seven. It's episode seven, cool.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:56

Yes. Um this was a very good issue, and I had started watching it, and then my girlfriend came over, and I'm catching her up on season one right now, so I didn't want to watch this not knowing what happens. Um, and I was like, hey, I'm gonna stop it here. And I came over to your place and we watched the rest of it, and you were like, you're like, it's coming. And I'm like, what is coming? And then I watched it and it just bruh.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:18

So spoilers ahead. Yes, major spoilers.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:22

More spoilers, yep.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:23

So I told you when we watched the conquest episode, two episodes ago now. You were like, bro, every time Conquest shows up, like it's insane. Yeah, like it's so awesome, you know it's about to go down. Yeah, and I said, just wait for Thrag.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:38

Yeah, and I was like, there's a worse one, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:41

Brother, he gets worse. Past Paul, you can't hear this because this is all in the future. He's worse, he's way worse.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:50

Yeah, yeah. So this episode, we finally go to Viltrum because the last episode, episode six, uh, Thaedis says the only way to stop this war is to go to Viltrum, stop them before they can get too far, before they can regroup.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:04

Right.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:04

So they go there. This episode starts out. This is what I was hyped about, dude. This episode starts out and we see the past. We see Emperor Argyll. Yes. Dude, I want first three minutes in, I watched this and I I I texted you. I said, bro, no way they did this. And then you didn't answer. So I'm like, I have to tell somebody. Well, because you said that and I was like, I don't know what I hadn't watched, I didn't got that far yet.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:28

So I was like, did he did something happen that I didn't that I didn't know? Like, I I didn't want to be like, what did they do? And you'd be like, they killed Omni Man. I was gonna be like, no.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:38

So they don't. But they make you think that.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:41

They do make you think that. And I was like, brother, and then Amazon's like, here's a map.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:46

Right. So I called my dad, and he's like, Yeah, what's up? And I said, Dad, they have Megatron. And he's like, What? I said, So, in the beginning of this episode of Invincible, it is the past, and it is these Viltramites, and they are discussing what to do with this planet that is rebelling against them. And Peter Cullen's character, Thaedis, is still a Viltramite at this point. He's not rebelled, and he's saying, like, maybe we should give them peace as an option. We maybe should do the Viltramites not respect strength? Like, they're fighting against us. Let's give them what they want. Let's appeal, let's make a deal. Emperor Argyll is voiced by Frank Welker, who has voiced Megatron since the 80s Transformers. And so these two are going at it. And I told my dad, I said, Peter Collin and Frank Welker have been fighting for 40 years.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:43

Yep, yep, yep. And then he guessed Peter Cullen wins because he assassinates. Every time. Every time.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:49

Optimus wins. So he killed your wall! That's exactly what happened in this episode. And in your house. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:00

Clayton's closet collapsed on him when I got here, and I was like, what are y'all doing? And him and his wife are trying to pick up all the clothes. And I was like, I'm gonna go set up. You guys just do your thing, and then yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:10

But so that's how the episode begins. And then we get to Viltrum.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:14

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:15

And you want to talk about what happens here at Viltram?

SPEAKER_02 1:24:17

Because my gosh, it's it's insane. So we get uh Is this is this still in the beginning, or is this when they all go through?

SPEAKER_03 1:24:24

They arrived to Viltrum.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:25

They arrive to Viltrum, and the first thing they notice is the the mass dead bodies surrounding the planet. And they go through these bodies, and it's very obvious that, oh, the the Viltromites know they're coming because there's some people already hidden in the bodies, and then when they get through, there's Thrag standing there like, hello, like I'm ready to This man is aura farming to the max. I told Clayton, I was like, this is what I look like when I see Al Ewings at a con, and I I really want to talk to him. I look like Thrag being sitting there just had that death stare on them. Um but um but yeah, so we get this huge fight in space where everybody like the villager mites are fighting hard. Thrag is just standing there, just not doing nothing. And he I think um Omni Man comes and throws a punch at him and he literally dodges it just like by a by like a barely moving like a millimeter. Yeah. It rather just backs up like a like an inch and then just yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:20

The uh space racer, his laser shoots right past Thrag. Thrag doesn't even flinch.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:24

Nope, Flag, nope, doesn't flinch, doesn't you don't see any like this dude is like tough, like Timmy tough nuts over here. Like this dude is on this, right? Yeah, and um, but we get this insane battle, and right off the bat, uh um Oliver goes to fight.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:42

Even though they tell Oliver in the ship, do not try to fight him on your own.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:46

Do not go up and do that, and then he does it anyway, and Thrag rips his arm and jaw off, yeah, and Oliver's just floating. And I'm just like, brother, just just like that. Like, that's it.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:57

And I like so that's the first big the big thing that happens, and then um Omni Man goes up to him, yeah, and he gets punched by Thrag and he falls down to Viltrum, and him and Thrag have a conversation, which I don't remember this happening in the comics, so this had to be something that they added. Yeah, they have a conversation, Thrags offers to Omni Man, hey, if you join our cause again, all will be forgiven. Let's go against the betrayer, let's go against Thetis. He unleashed the scourge virus on our people, and Omni Man says, like, I'm we're not doing that. You went after my sons, yeah, and that's not happening.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:36

So they get close, they get face to face, and then they kiss and Thrag whips out the hardest, like charged uppercut ever. Like the there's a wind on this chart, and then uppercuts Omni Man literally into space. Into space, and like he keeps going past the ring. Like you see the the ring kind of make a there's like a hole in the ring of dead bodies where Omni Man flies through. And yeah, because he uppercutted him so hard.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:08

And Thrag decides to go after them all. And he there's there's no chance for peace now. No, and so he goes back into space and they're they're fighting still, and Mark Nolan is like well, Mark goes after Thrag first. He sees Oliver.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:26

Yeah, he sees Oliver and he goes after him.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:28

That scene, man. He he's I I killed Conquest, I'll kill you too.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:33

And everybody looks at him. Yeah. I don't know if you noticed that, but like everybody's like, they look at him like, oh, like, oh, okay. He killed Conquest. Yeah, that's insane.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:42

There, I I'm not gonna say who, but if you read the comics, there's one person in particular who looked at him at that moment and was like, hmm. I won't say who, I won't say why, or that matters, or anything.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:54

I may know this already. I think I'm I have I think this is something I got spoiled for. Okay. Um, out of my Own curiosity of the book. So anyway. So I noticed that and I was like, oh no. Yeah. Can we not do this one? It's not wall.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:10

It is bad.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:11

It is very bad.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:12

It's it's awful.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:16

Yeah. So, anyways, Mark goes after Thrag.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:19

And Thrag, he gets punched straight in the face. I don't know if you caught that. That animation gives him like skull. Yeah, just pure red.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:27

Bro took it on the forehead like it was nothing.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:29

And didn't flinch, didn't move nothing. And he's what does he say? He says something like, I'm not impressed.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:37

Yeah. He's like, I'm not impressed. And then he uh he he fights Mark.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:44

Yeah, he fights Mark and then Nolan, uh, Omni Man is in space and he's like, Everybody with me now.

SPEAKER_04 1:28:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:50

And they fly down to Viltrum and they're knocking everybody out of their way, and everybody kind of forms up on Omni Man, and Space Racer gets in front and he he shoots and then he flies off because Alan and Tech Jacket get knocked out of the fight. So it's just Thetis, Omni Man, and Mark now. And they're flying together, and they're flying behind Space Racer's laser. And Mark starts kind of drifting off a little bit. Omni Man grabs him and says, No, stay close. And he pulls him close and he's like, Dad, what are we what are we doing? No, no, no, no. This cannot dad.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:22

We have trust you have to stick with me.

SPEAKER_03 1:29:24

We have to do this.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:25

Yeah, we have to do this.

SPEAKER_03 1:29:26

So Space Racer's laser goes into the planet, and the three of them, the three Viltermites, go down. Thrag realizes what they're doing and tries to go after them. He even pushes the other Viltermites out of the way to get to them, but he's not fast enough. No. And even though we see insane speed from Thrag. But he goes down and uh he's not able to catch them and they blow up the planet.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:48

Yep. The planet completely combusts. It goes.

SPEAKER_03 1:29:52

Splits it in half and it just blows up like Alderon.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:54

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:56

Yeah. It's lower.

SPEAKER_03 1:29:57

Alderon. Alder gone. They're all gone. And and then we're kind of sitting. I don't know if you noticed the sound, even it's just pure silence after that.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:09

And all the bodies from the ring are just floating out in space now. Yeah. And also, like all of their clothes are gone except for their pants because of the heat from the core of the planet. Yeah. And they they get to the other end, and you're like, what all the Viltermites are shocked. Right. They're like, this just happened.

SPEAKER_03 1:30:27

Yeah. Our planet's gone.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:28

Our planet's gone. Yeah, our home is gone. Yeah. Which it all there's like this is funny. We were watching it and I was like, how many Vilter mites are even alive? Like three? And then immediately after it's like, there are like what 40 of us left? And I was like, oh, okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:30:42

I I knew that it was coming, so I was like, just listen.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:45

Yeah, you're like, hang on. I was like, oh, yeah, thanks. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:30:48

So Thaetus, Omni Man, and Invincible are all standing together. And they're they're kind of catching their breath too. They're like, okay, well, where do we go from here? And Thrag shows up and he rips an asteroid in half. Yes. And he says, I choose death.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:05

Yep. And he boom right through it.

SPEAKER_03 1:31:07

And it destroys the asteroid and grabs Thetis and rips off his head.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:12

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 1:31:13

And that's why I knew this was sad to see Peter Cullen in that voice because I'm like, I know what's coming.

SPEAKER_05 1:31:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:31:19

He takes his skull and says, Argyll, you have been avenged. I saw somebody on Instagram. They had it was Optimus Prime's head, and Thrag was holding it, and he said, Lord Megatron, you have been avenged.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:30

A lot of people were avenged that day.

SPEAKER_03 1:31:32

So he takes his head and he crushes his skull. Yep. And then he goes after Omni Man. Yep. And man, that fight is intense. Uh they're they're they're fighting, and Omni Man tries to get away, and Thrag says, I took I I I was too fast with Thetis. I won't make the same mistake with you. And just beats the crap out of me. And Mark saves him, and Mark gets throat chopped, so he he he's struggling to breathe in space for a moment. And uh and then you continue to fight, and and Mark looks at his dad, Nolan, and he's like, How do we beat him?

SPEAKER_02 1:32:08

And Nolan looks at him and he's about to say something, and then he gets and then he gets the freaking the Viltermite chop the chop hand straight through the sternum. And it's just like it was dude, that was that was rough. Watching that with you, you were like Yeah, my jaw was on the floor. Yeah. I was like, oh my gosh, they killed Omni Man. They killed him.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:31

Are you sure?

SPEAKER_03 1:32:32

No. And then Thrag turns on Mark and he grabs his face and he digs his thumbs into his eye. Yep. And he's about to kill him. And then he sees the dead bodies of the Viltermites. And this was a good callback to the beginning of the episode, right before he fights Omni Man, he says, every the death of every Viltermite leaves a void in my soul.

SPEAKER_05 1:32:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:32:54

And so he sees the death of all the Viltermites. He remembers how little there are. And the other Viltramites come and say, Grand Regent Thrag, he he destroyed our planet. Kill him. Finish them. Yeah. And he's like, silence. And he lets Mark go and they fly away.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:10

Yep. They just float away. Just floats off, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:33:14

Copy paste the drag. Yeah, just uh but but then Mark and Nolan's bodies float in space for a bit. And then they're finally found. We go to an ad.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:28

Yeah, we go to an ad. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:33:31

And then we wake up and Alan is now the the leader of the coalition of planets because uh Thetis is dead. Yep. No coming back from that one. And Mark is like, Where's Oliver? Where's my dad? It's revealed that Omni Man is alive. He does have a thing around his waist.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:49

Because I literally looked at you and I was like, if they can bring Mark back, they can bring Omni Man back. I don't care what anybody says. They can bring Mark back. Like, don't tell me you couldn't do that. You just put you put it back in there. You tape him up, he'll be fine. Give him some alien eggs. He'll be okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:34:03

Oliver is basically in the Luke Skywalker back to back to tank. Yep.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:08

He's got a robot arm and maybe a robot jaw. Was that what I or was his jaw back on? It's healing. Okay. It's healing.

SPEAKER_03 1:34:15

And so he's like, he'll be better in a few weeks. He just needs more time. And then the episode. And they've been what? They had been out again for two more months? For a few more weeks.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:24

They just say a few weeks, yeah. Which my thought is because we had the two months when Mark was out, then we have a few weeks now. Don't forget Adam Eve's pregnant. Right. When they get back to Earth, I want to know what that's going to be like. Which I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 1:34:38

No comment.

unknown 1:34:40

Oh.

SPEAKER_03 1:34:42

Yeah. I I won't say anything. But then uh Alan says that there is uh something we still have to deal with. Where did the Viltramites go? And his girlfriend, Taylor, is like, we we can't find them anywhere. They've it's like they've just disappeared. And Mark is thinking, and then he realizes, and Alan says, Mark, what is it? And Mark says, They've gone to Earth. Yep. And then the episode ends. No in credit this time either.

SPEAKER_02 1:35:09

No in credit. Uh we just get yep. So what an episode.

SPEAKER_03 1:35:13

In super intense, man.

SPEAKER_02 1:35:14

Very intense episode. It was really nice to finally see Thrag and to understand who his character is. Because again, you've read this, I have not. I'm choosing not to. So for all of you out there that's like, you need to read it, I'm not going to. I'm watching the show. Um, we yeah, getting to see Thrag as a character now, getting to see that, getting to see his rule over Viltrum is is insane. And just to see how powerful he is. Because again, I whenever I saw that conquest fight, I was like, man, every time I see Conquest now, I'm just like, brother. You know. But like now Thrag is like, he's the new Conquest. Pretty cool. But he hasn't, he hasn't, he killed Omni Man, but didn't didn't kill him.

SPEAKER_03 1:35:52

Um so I like But even Conquest is scared of Thrag, as we saw in the beginning of the episode. Oh yeah, yeah. He obeys Thrag. Yeah. Um I I don't it's Freddie Mercury, man.

SPEAKER_01 1:36:05

He literally is Freddie Mercury.

SPEAKER_03 1:36:07

I I don't want to spoil anything. So I gotta choose my words carefully. So I will say this when Mark finally fights Thrag, it is one of the best comic book fights I have ever read.

SPEAKER_02 1:36:25

Do you think it says that happened in the next episode?

SPEAKER_03 1:36:28

Oh no.

SPEAKER_02 1:36:28

Oh, okay. How much how much is there season-wise compared to comic-wise?

SPEAKER_03 1:36:34

Um, I think right now we're in like issue 70. I think we're in the 70s right now. And then there's 145, 147 Invincible issues. Okay. Okay. So Robert Kirkman said he wants the series to go to at least season nine or ten.

SPEAKER_02 1:36:50

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:36:50

And um Invincible has at least been renewed till season seven, I just saw.

SPEAKER_02 1:36:55

Okay, cool.

SPEAKER_03 1:36:55

So we've got a few more seasons, yeah, at least confirmed.

SPEAKER_02 1:36:58

Right.

SPEAKER_03 1:36:59

Um I hope, I hope and pray they are able to do the whole series.

SPEAKER_02 1:37:04

It's so popular. I don't see why they wouldn't.

SPEAKER_03 1:37:07

No, I don't see why they wouldn't either.

SPEAKER_02 1:37:08

I don't see why they wouldn't, because if it's if it's doing this good, and it's it's what? It's the number one show on Prime. Or it's it's number three, I think, right now.

SPEAKER_03 1:37:15

I think it's number two right now because the boys just promote it.

SPEAKER_02 1:37:17

Yeah, the boys just did its thing, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:37:19

Which we will not be watching.

SPEAKER_02 1:37:20

No, I I can't. I think I like I actually talked to Diane at the comic book store about this today. I was like, I had to tap out. Like it's not that it's it's like I don't have a problem with that stuff, but it just got to the point where like I was just I could not watch it. It's a little too much. I was like, I I'm tap, I just can't do this anymore. This is too much for me. Like it's not that it's it's like because I like dark stuff, but this is like it's dark for the sake of being dark. It's this is different dark. This is like this is like inappropriate dark, right? Like I feel like when I watch this, I'm not supposed to be watching like this ain't something I'm supposed to see, you know.

SPEAKER_03 1:37:50

So so we will not be reviewing the boys.

SPEAKER_02 1:37:52

No, no, no boys.

SPEAKER_03 1:37:53

But Invincible, I think I I think we'll go nine or ten seasons.

SPEAKER_02 1:37:57

Yeah, and I I'm I'm all in on Invincible forever. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:38:00

And I can't wait for you to read the the book. Yeah. But but to be fair, like other than a few additions here or there to expand the story a little bit, I mean, we're basically getting the full story.

SPEAKER_02 1:38:10

Yeah, it's it's pretty, you know, with additional stuff, which even the additional stuff I can't tell. Right. Like I'm not the whole hell issue or the whole hell episode. Right. I had no idea that that was not in the book. And when you showed me, I was like, oh, okay, cool. I see how it wouldn't, but whatever. Yeah. You know, so I don't know. I'm I'm digging the show. I'm digging it too. This is a I don't know if we would say beyond the pool list. Beyond the pool list. Beyond the watch list. Beyond the watch brother. Oh my coin it yeah, beyond the watch list for sure. Definitely beyond the watch list. That's it's really good. Um they they don't have a lot of merch for it.

SPEAKER_03 1:38:45

They they really don't. They really don't.

SPEAKER_02 1:38:47

They started doing the pocket comics for Invincible, which is cool. I like them because they're cheap. Yeah, it's nice to to buy a ten dollar pretty much trade of an entire book that you just read and tear up and you don't have to worry about it.

SPEAKER_03 1:38:58

Right.

SPEAKER_02 1:38:58

Um yeah, they don't they don't have a lot, they don't have a lot of figures. They made those one figures, but I don't think they look that good.

SPEAKER_03 1:39:04

No, they they didn't. They made some Funko Pops too.

SPEAKER_02 1:39:06

I have one of them. I have the Battle Damaged. Um they actually, when I was the last uh con I was at, I was at an anime expo to meet Peter Chris from Kiss. Yeah. Why he's at an anime expo, I have no idea. Um but he's a hard rock singer at a freaking like nickel nickel ni thing. And I'm just like, why are you here? Um but they had a Funko Pop booth, and one of those booths had Mark in his black and blue suit, and he was super bloodied. Okay. And I wanted it, but it was like$40, and I was like, no. Yeah. Absolutely battery in his pen. So, yeah, so um they they don't.

SPEAKER_03 1:39:38

Um the big thing when Invincible first came out was the compendiums. And the compendiums are still very expensive. Actually, Amazon has them on sale right now, so you can get them a little bit cheaper uh than the sixty dollar normal price. Uh, there's three of those. I've seen a few shirts on Amazon, but they really don't have a whole lot of merch. Yeah. Um, not really.

SPEAKER_02 1:39:57

The c you can get the the condominiums anywhere. You can get them like at Books a Million. I saw them there today. Right. Um, they have them. Um I don't think they're super expensive. Seems like they're reprinting them enough where people can get them. Right, right. Which is cool because they're reprinting the book when the show's out so people can get into the comic instead of making a new comic. That's crazy. It is crazy. Yeah. Yeah. What wow, it sells. I guess.

SPEAKER_03 1:40:21

Man, we've already been at this for quite some time. But I was gonna actually say earlier in our conversation that I think this is something that indie books don't really have that problem. Like Image and Skybound, who are publishing Transformers right now, I don't see the same problems necessarily that I see with the big two, Marvel DC.

SPEAKER_02 1:40:38

Well, because the big two have big um, they have, you know, you got your editors and they it's corporate. It is, it is very much corporate. You know, indie, that's one of the things about like, you know, uh Todd McFarland doing uh independent or image is because image, he's image, is because um, you know, people can they have their own creative abilities, right? You can go and write your own book, you can do whatever you want, and you get the profit. Like yeah, Todd McFarlane doesn't take any of it. It's a safe haven for people to make their books however they want to, right? And you don't have to worry about that stuff. You just have to hope that the the writers, because they're their own bosses, so they have to just put it out there, you know.

SPEAKER_03 1:41:14

Yeah, and yeah, like your goal is to sell books, obviously. Yeah, and and like I know the big IPs will sell, Transformers will sell, G.I. Joe will sell, like those. Yeah, so those will sell if any books. So I know they don't do as good uh in sales wise, but they are the more unique out there stories than what we get from the big two, because the big two, except for absolute Batman, the big two are trying to this it's a it's a corporation, like you said. Yeah, we're more focused on the money than we are the story, while image is more focused on the story, yeah, and the money will come.

SPEAKER_02 1:41:46

Right. The money, yeah, which is like how the big two should be. We should be focused on, you know, and and someone else made a good point a while back that, you know, if you like I think it's I do think it is smart to do those like releases, right? Spider-Man Brand New Days coming out, they should definitely reprint that that original Spider-Man Brand New Day those issues, or that like they should reprint a trade of it be like in like a pocket edition for ten bucks. Right, just so people can get into it. But you shouldn't be writing a whole new book that has the same quota as the movie because the whole point is for people to see the book and go, oh, this isn't the movie. Right. So um, but yeah, that that's one of the things that Image has, and you know, you you came when we did the first Invincible review that we did, you brought one of the reprints over to my house, and I was like, Oh, that's so cool that they're reprinting it. So, like, you know, I could go get one and I'd be like, look, I've got the book that happened in this episode. I think that's really cool. Yes. And I think they should do more of that.

SPEAKER_03 1:42:34

I think so.

SPEAKER_02 1:42:35

Um, but yeah, man, it was pretty pretty big week.

SPEAKER_03 1:42:37

It was we when we first were planning, we were like, we're gonna have a short week. This is gonna be like a 20-minute episode. But ended up being almost two hours again. We're almost two hours. Oh no.

SPEAKER_02 1:42:47

Oh, our lobster's too buttery. All you people listening, you have two hours worth of content. Oh no.

SPEAKER_03 1:42:53

Okay. Well, yeah, I I think before we wrap up, I just want to say one more time that uh congratulations on your movie. Thank you very much. I'm very excited. That is awesome, man, that you won a national award. So I am I'm very proud of you. My wife is also very proud of you. Uh, so you go have fun in Vegas. We will meet again. We are planning to record again next week. Yes. Once you return. Yep. And we will be reviewing next week the Superman Spider-Man crossover.

SPEAKER_02 1:43:22

Yep, we have the Marvel side of it where I guess one of us is we're gonna figure out the Who's Buying Dinner? Who's buying dinner? That might be the episode titles. Who's buying dinner? And we're gonna reveal at the end of the issue who's buying dinner. Which if you read it, you probably already know.

SPEAKER_03 1:43:34

So But that episode may come out a little bit later.

SPEAKER_02 1:43:38

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 1:43:38

It might come out on Saturday. Most of our episodes normally release on Fridays. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:43:42

I think we I think we'll I think we'll be okay. But if we're not, we expect it on Saturday. If it ain't Friday, expect it Saturday. Also, if you are listening and you don't follow our Instagram, please follow Comic Nation1776. That's where you will get all of our comments. We read comments.

SPEAKER_03 1:43:56

We read and we try to respond as many as we can.

SPEAKER_02 1:43:58

Yes, we we reread those very regularly. We uh Clayton actually replies back to them consistently. Um and if if it's a good post and it's got good comments, we'll read it on the show. So please give us a follow and um even some recommendations if there's anything you think that we we don't want to take too many because we're already reading a lot of stuff and we both have like lives and stuff, but like you know, uh please, you know, we'll always look into it.

SPEAKER_03 1:44:19

Yes, we will. So with that being said, I'm Clayton. I'm Paul, and you're listening to the Beyond the Pool Dis podcast.