Did Scott Snyder Just Do THAT?!?

This week on Beyond the Pull List, we talk about how we actually met the legendary Scott Snyder! Not only did he record an exclusive intro for the show, but he also answered our burning question about the future of the Absolute Joker.

​Once we recover from the hype, we are diving deep into Absolute Batman #20. It’s a massive world-building issue setting the stage for total chaos, but the real drama is physical: Why is every single copy printed with a creased spine? Is DC doing this on purpose, and are un-crinkled copies seriously selling for $120 on eBay? (Paul also contemplates putting his Venom run in a 500-degree gas oven to fix pages. Please don't do this).

​Also in this episode:

Marvel managed to completely ruin Clayton’s anniversary by announcing the new Midnight series, and the guys are ready to rip it apart.

We review our monthly pulls like Transformers #32, and Death Spiral. But we also talk about the Free Comic Book day issues from Marvel and the Energon Universe. 

​Go check out the Comics Exchange podcast to hear a 5-second clip of us thanking Scott in the background! And don't forget to follow our Instagram at Comic_Nation1776

Transcript

SPEAKER_05 0:00

I'm Scott Snyder, and you're listening to Be on the Pull List.

SPEAKER_00 0:13

That is holy stamina.

SPEAKER_04 0:15

How did we afford to do that?

SPEAKER_08 0:17

Scott, we're so happy to have you here.

SPEAKER_04 0:23

Scott is not here. No.

SPEAKER_08 0:25

But we did get to meet Scott Snyder, so that was awesome.

SPEAKER_04 0:28

Hello, my name is Paul.

SPEAKER_08 0:28

And my name's Clayton.

SPEAKER_04 0:29

And you're listening to Beyond the Pool List. We are back again for episode seven.

SPEAKER_08 0:35

I think it's seven.

SPEAKER_04 0:36

Six or seven.

SPEAKER_08 0:36

Six or seven. Oh that was that was an opportunity. I'll give you that.

SPEAKER_02 0:41

I should just stop.

SPEAKER_04 0:44

Yeah, we have this is a big week. Big, big, big week. We've got all kinds of cool stuff coming this week. Um if you listen to our last episode, our alleyway episode, we actually got to meet and talk to Scott Snyder. Um he was doing a signing in Knoxville, and we drove up there and waited in line for four hours. Four, four to six hours. Um, and we got to meet him. He recorded that little clip for us, so that's really, really awesome. Um He also answered your question. And he answered my question, which we will we will we're gonna get into. I'm oh I'm so excited. Um real quick note before we get started. Um, this could be I don't know, but this could be a possible last episode for Clayton for a little bit, as we are coming up on the end game of his wife being pregnant.

SPEAKER_08 1:31

Yes, so my wife is currently, as we're recording this, 38 weeks pregnant. A typical pregnancy lasts 40 weeks. So we are we're we are in the game. We're in the end game.

SPEAKER_04 1:42

And she's due at the end of May. So um she could literally come like we we've literally everything that we do together, we're having to plan the possibility of her being pregnant, like her going into labor. So we're at that stage, and um we've we've got precautions in place in case it happens this episode. Um, we don't know yet. So if it just randomly happens, you will know about it. Um but um but yeah, so and if he and he he's planning on stepping out for a month, but we're gonna we're gonna try to make things work. I think we're gonna be okay. I think we'll try to be back for the next absolute Batman. For sure. Yeah, we're gonna be back for sure. Hopefully we'll be back for an absolute um, and if not, then I will still do a recording and I will have Clayton send me some of his stuff, and we will do the best we can with what we got while he is nurturing and and meeting and loving his new baby girl. Yep. So but we're not there yet.

SPEAKER_03 2:31

Right now we're an absolute Batman 20, and my god, that's what we're gonna talk about today.

SPEAKER_08 2:37

Um so so let's talk about the signing. Like there was a lot of really stuff we talked about it in the in the alleyway episode. I like how you called it that. Um, but we we waited there, and while we were waiting there, we talked to uh several people in line, and it really confirmed what we had talked about. Because if you remember, uh back to our episode, we had talked about how Absolute Batman is just drawing people in, new readers, people who haven't read and collected in 10 to 20 years.

SPEAKER_07 3:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 3:06

And and we had talked about how that's insane.

SPEAKER_00 3:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 3:09

Absolutely insane.

SPEAKER_00 3:11

Absolutely insane. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_08 3:12

Uh, and it just confirmed those people that we were talking to. It just confirmed what we were talking about.

SPEAKER_04 3:17

Yeah, right after we recorded, we just kind of hung out in line for the rest of the day. And it just got to the point where we were talking to the people in front of us, and they were both college students who um never collected before. They had never been collectors. That this was their first signing. Actually, uh, one of them had asked me on numerous occasions, like, how does this work? Like, do you do when do you do this? When do you unbag your boards? When do you where where do you go when you're done with the signing? Like, all those things. And it was really cool because I was like, I've never I've never had to tell somebody that. So that's cool that people are getting into this, and that's cool that people, you know, um are liking absolute Batman, but you know, we had mentioned that all of the other uh companies, their their books are going up because of the the popularity of Absolute Batman, and it's it's showing, yeah, showing majorly, especially on Free Comic Book Day, getting to meet Scott Snyder. And for that to be those first like those people's first uh like signature, like artist writer meeting, that was one of the best artists I've met. Yeah, right, like one of the best writers. Like, I out of everybody that I've met, like I didn't I've never had a reaction like I've had with Scott Snyder. Yeah, especially this is my first Batman signing, I've never been to Batman signing, so like that was even cool on top of it because I'm used to the same venom stuff or like meeting Clayton Crane for the eighth time or Bagley. Yeah, he's like, Oh, it's you again. Why are you still here?

SPEAKER_08 4:36

Give me your hundred books.

SPEAKER_04 4:38

Okay, how many of these are you selling? None of them.

SPEAKER_08 4:43

No, but Scott Scott was really, really awesome to me. We're I'm so thankful for that opportunity to he was just so laid back, so so nice, talked to everybody, spent time with everybody, and that was really cool to see. And that, you know, honestly, it really ties back to everything. Those new people who got to meet him who are collecting and reading for the first time, that's gonna leave a huge impact on them because they're gonna want to come back and they're like, while Scott Snyder was such a cool guy, I just want to read more of his stuff.

SPEAKER_04 5:11

Right. Yeah. Um, yeah, and like we a lot of the people there were getting there was a lot of and there was a lot of variety. It wasn't just absolute Batman fans. You had people getting Court of Owl's stuff signed, you had people getting uh some of his other New 52 runs stuff signed. Right. Um that's not the same thing, is it?

SPEAKER_08 5:27

Uh New 52 was Court of Owls.

SPEAKER_04 5:29

Okay, and then well he did something.

SPEAKER_08 5:31

He did previous before New 52, yeah. Right.

SPEAKER_04 5:33

So he did yeah, so some of his previous before New 52, Court of Owls, and Absolutes were the biggest. And um, do you want to tell some about some of the stuff you got signed?

SPEAKER_08 5:42

Sure. Uh so I had his um Dark Knights Death Metal, Last Stories of the Multiverse story, and that was really cool to have him sign it. When he signed it, he even said this was a well, this was a pleasure to work with Jeff Johns on. And uh that book you had actually bought me for um my birthday one year. I did. Uh so I really wanted to get that signed. I got um Absolute Batman 14, which is still probably one of my favorite single issue comics ever.

SPEAKER_04 6:06

Is yeah.

SPEAKER_08 6:07

Um I got that one, and then um, oh goodness, I'm I'm blanking on it, but it's it's basically the return of Superboy Prime uh in the Dark Knight's Death Metal story. Yeah, I can't think of the title, but it was really cool to get him to sign that. Yeah. Um, and again, just to be able to get a picture with him, to get a recording with him, that just shows like how much he appreciates his fans. Yeah, and and that means so much. Um, and you know, one other thing I wanted to add to this conversation here I saw a video the other day about a comic shop owner. I I don't know where he was at, but they had asked him, What book do you say has had the biggest impact on comics? And he thought about it for a second. He said, This might be a hot take, but absolute Batman. Because Absolute Batman has never there's not really been a comic in the last 20, 30 years that has just drawn people in and like, I want to read this, I need to read this, and why they're here, they're also shopping for other things. Right. And so he's like, This book has changed comics forever.

SPEAKER_04 7:08

Yeah. I'm I'm wondering if Absolute Batman how close it is to being the number one selling comic.

SPEAKER_08 7:13

I I would say it's up there. Now I know first printing is behind Transformers, but Transformers did start um before Absolute Batman. Right. So that gives it a little bit of an advantage.

SPEAKER_04 7:24

And Absolute Batman issue one wasn't, you know, not a lot of people picked it up because not a lot of people knew what it was yet. You know, so a lot of people I didn't pick it up, you know. I didn't I just didn't care at the time.

SPEAKER_08 7:32

But as the hype grew, more people have has has bought it. That might affect the statistics a little bit though.

SPEAKER_04 7:38

Maybe, maybe. Yeah. What is the what is the number one selling comic book? Is it um Death of Superman still?

SPEAKER_08 7:43

Or is it No, a number one selling comic of all time, I believe, is um X-Men number one by Jim Lee and Chris Claremont. I could be totally wrong on that, but I know Rob Liefield once posted, as controversial as he is, that he has like the highest selling comic book, the most selling comic book, the the biggest Captain America chess. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So he has all that apparently, and uh so I I need to kind of fact check him on that, I guess.

SPEAKER_04 8:11

But I I don't know. Like I was thinking recently, I was like, like, especially hearing all these people, like, man, absolute Batman has to be getting up there. It has to. You know, it it there's just no way. And anytime we like that's the thing, is it getting to the point where like on our show, anytime we talk, like absolute Batman is our big day of the month.

SPEAKER_08 8:26

And that's those are our biggest episodes.

SPEAKER_04 8:28

Yeah, those are our biggest episodes. Just because we have so much to talk about, and you know, because Marvel's not doing anything good, which we will we're 100% gonna get into some of the new news about what's going on with Marvel coming up. Um, I guess due to the success of the absolute universe, um, you are not. I'm very excited to hear your we we've also we've we've done that thing again where we we've barely talked about it like off the mic because we want to hear our full opinions on on the show.

SPEAKER_08 8:51

I'll give you a preview of what I'm going to say now. You remember in Hercules at the Disney one where Hades gets really mad and he just like bursts into red flames? Yeah, that's pretty much me right now.

SPEAKER_04 9:02

I I'm I'm I don't know if I'm gonna get that mad, uh, but I'm my my rage from previous episodes is turning into like just carelessness now.

SPEAKER_08 9:11

They ruined my anniversary. So a quick story on that. Um Marvel announced the midnight series. We're not we'll we'll save that for later on in this series, uh in this episode. Um, but I'm I'm so annoyed with it, yeah, and then I just want to rip it apart, and and we're going to. And uh the first thing I did on my me and my wife's anniversary uh this past week, I opened up Instagram and the first post I saw was this, and I'm like, nope, they've made me mad again. I don't I hate everything.

SPEAKER_04 9:45

Yeah, it's uh do you want to just talk about it real quick?

SPEAKER_08 9:48

We can save it, we can save it because I want to talk about the peak, yeah, and then just kind of go from it.

SPEAKER_04 9:53

Yeah, and then we'll we'll get to the more watered down part of the spaghetti at the end. Right. Um, real quick though, um uh if uh you want to hear more about the Scott Snyder signing, um, you can actually listen to uh Comics Exchange, the the comic book store that um hosted him. They have their own podcast. They shouted us out. Um, so we're gonna do the same for them. So go listen to Comics Exchange. So they they dropped the new episode, it's out now. I haven't listened to it yet. Um, but you can hear us on it. We are on it for there for like five seconds. So um and there's I think there's a clip of all of us going, thank you, Scott. And we all we me and Clayton were in the room when that happened. So technically we're we're there.

SPEAKER_00 10:28

Um I was in the room when that happened. I was in I was literally in the womb when that took place.

SPEAKER_04 10:36

Um so uh first thing first, before we get into absolute Batman 20, we're gonna get straight into it because we are dying to talk about this issue. This was an absolute freaking banger issue. Yeah. Um but there was a problem with this issue, a major problem that um that you might not have noticed if you read comics um digitally, like a DC Infinite. If you read comics digitally, you will not notice this issue. If you buy physically, then you will 100% notice it. Every single copy of this book is damaged. So there was something that happened during the printing process. I don't know exactly what it was, but the spine kind of in the middle of the spine where like the middle staple? It's where Dick Grayson, uh Dick Grayson, or is that Dick Grayson's? Yeah, Dick Grayson's uh uh Robin mech suit, um, it's got this small crease. And now it's not a lot of the pictures online looked a lot worse than this did. Um but you can kind of see it just a little bit again, and it's on it's on every cover. If you if you bought a variant of the book, the variant fold, because you know, they print those onto the regular book, they will not have the issue on the variant part, but when you open it up, you will see it on the inside. Um if you have a copy that is not damaged, keep it. Don't open it. CGC it because it's gonna probably be worth something. Because with the collector market, that's probably a thing, which you actually think, which I just go ahead. Yo, yeah, I was about to say go ahead.

SPEAKER_08 11:57

So so I I I do think that people are just going to hoard these prestige copies, but I literally saw, like, just moments before we started recording, that the the absolute Batman 20, a prestige copy without the the damage, has just sold on eBay for $120.

SPEAKER_04 12:16

Oh, you're kidding me. So I didn't know there was one. Okay, so I guess there is some copies that are damaged.

SPEAKER_08 12:21

Well, I think they had it pressed, but I'm not 100% sure.

SPEAKER_03 12:24

But if I well, that's not fair.

SPEAKER_08 12:26

But either way, like prestige copies without this damage are selling for so much already, and that's exactly my theory. Well, actually, my theory, my initial theory was that DC did this on purpose so they could print more.

SPEAKER_07 12:38

I agree.

SPEAKER_08 12:39

I don't know so much if I believe that now, but I've seen some stuff. People have messaged DC customer service and DC's customer service, like I mean, these people were angry, like I'm so mad at DC, I might never buy another book because you guys have done this. And the DC customer service said basically we're we're sorry, but we can't do anything about it.

SPEAKER_07 12:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 13:00

And so I don't know. Uh it's possible DC could have done that intentionally so they could have sold more copies, because this cover had how many variants?

SPEAKER_04 13:08

Um this one um in total 115. Um over the counter at every comic book store variant, it's like five. No, it's a lot more than that. It's like maybe eight, because there's a variant of each Robin, and then there's two Batman variants, and then the main cover. Okay. So yeah, probably like eight, eight variants total uh over every store counter. But when you count all the variants, including other like exclusive online shops and stuff like that, you're gonna you're getting up to 115. Yeah. Which is a lot. Um, I'm waiting to see what 21, how many variants they get, because I'm sure it's gonna be 125. Yeah. I I I don't know. But I wonder if those came in damage. I guess they did too. I would assume they would. 21? No, issue 20. I would assume that like exclusive variant. Like if you buy you would assume so. Like unknowncomics.com's exclusive cover, it's gonna be damage too.

SPEAKER_08 14:00

Yeah, I would assume so. But otherwise those are gonna get bought up quickly anyways. Yeah, yeah. So uh I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 14:05

But it is it's not a bad damage. I mean, it it is a it is a pressable damage. I think you can definitely like like do a little bit of heat treatment and press it a little bit and it'll it'll come out fine.

SPEAKER_08 14:15

Set it on fire.

SPEAKER_04 14:16

Yeah, set it on fire, throw it in the throw it at the garbage disposal, you know?

SPEAKER_08 14:18

Like um I I was told once that if you put comics in the oven, it'll straighten out any creases.

SPEAKER_04 14:26

I might have to try that with my venom run to see if that see if that actually works. How high does the oven? Does it need to be set on like 500 degrees?

SPEAKER_08 14:33

Yeah, as high as your oven will go. Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 14:35

Well, mine's a gas oven, so that might work really good for my venom books because you know I've I've crinkled the pages with how mad I get when I read them.

SPEAKER_08 14:42

Um But but some copies like the one you graciously bought me. So thank you. I can buy you a copy, you're very welcome. It's really not that damaging. It's not that bad.

SPEAKER_04 14:50

It's not that bad. I asked actually, um, I called my local comic store because I was uh I was out of town working, and I called my local store being like, hey, um, can you make sure there's not a damaged copy? And he didn't even know there was damage. Like he didn't know there was yeah, Derek didn't. He's he's our uh he's one of the employees at uh Mountain Impact Comics where we shop at. And he actually didn't notice that there was a a crinkle because he's like, Oh yeah, all the copies here are are fine. And I was like, What? I had that Peter Quill what moment now I know it's not that bad or whatever. Um but when I actually went to pick it up, um it it had that little crinkle.

SPEAKER_03 15:25

But again, it wasn't that bad. It's not a bad damage.

SPEAKER_04 15:28

So um, you know, but um the issue is the most important thing. So if you got a good copy, I guess get it graded and you know, sell it on eBay for $126 or $300 or whatever somebody's willing to pay for it. But are you ready to get into this issue? Oh, I'm ready. Are you? I'm ready. Okay, so we have a crazy issue. So starting off with the first few pages, this these were the pages that were actually presented online. And I do you want to like I kind of want to do a page by page on this one.

SPEAKER_08 16:07

I think this is this warrants it because I really think there's a lot to talk about. Yeah, and I'll I'll start off by saying that this issue doesn't have a whole lot of insane action.

SPEAKER_04 16:19

There's not a lot of action, yeah. But that's okay.

SPEAKER_08 16:21

But that's okay because not every issue in a story needs to have insane action. But what Scott Snyder and and Nick Dragada and the whole team here were doing were really building the tension, really setting the stage for everything that is to come. This is just like he is laying the groundwork and he's just gonna build on it from here.

SPEAKER_07 16:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 16:39

And and so you're if you're looking for a book with high octane action, you're not gonna get it here.

SPEAKER_04 16:45

Yeah. No, yeah.

SPEAKER_08 16:46

This is definitely a world-building issue.

SPEAKER_04 16:47

This is a world-building issue, which I think these issues are very important, especially for this arc being a big arc. And real quick, one last thing. Um, actually, I'll just go ahead and play it right here, right now. When do you think that we're gonna see learn more about Absolute Joker?

SPEAKER_05 17:03

Uh well, you learn more, a lot more about him and like really soon. Like it's over. I mean, he has his first kind of big confrontation with Batman in this arc. So you'll see more about his cave, more about how he thinks, like every okay.

SPEAKER_04 17:15

So Scott Snyder, um, I asked him those questions, and he said that we're gonna get more about Joker in this. And first page of this issue, we get it. We see into the Batcave. Yeah, we or the Joker cave, I guess. Um, and um honestly just just go ahead and take it away.

SPEAKER_08 17:32

So, one thing I do want to I I am curious because uh what I have noticed about this book, and we're gonna talk about it, is how everything Scott Snyder and the team does is uh intentional.

SPEAKER_03 17:42

Yes.

SPEAKER_08 17:42

There is there is no wasted space. No. And so I I'm right off the bat, the first panel, I am almost curious I I'm curious what the uh what the time because you know in regular Batman comics he puts it to the time his parents were killed.

SPEAKER_04 17:55

Right.

SPEAKER_08 17:56

So I'm curious what what is the significance of this time here?

SPEAKER_04 17:59

What is it's uh what? It's uh 10 46. Okay 10 46, 1047 on the clock is what time it is. Oh six seven? Oh no more.

SPEAKER_08 18:15

So we see the time, and we we see the grandfather clock being moved back. We go down into the Joker cave and we see these screens playing, and it's really a replay of everything that we have seen in the absolute Batman storyline so far. We see we see Batman, we see Joker, we see Bane Bane, Black Mass.

SPEAKER_04 18:33

We we uh somebody is watching on these screens everything that's happened. And you hear he he he he he he he a little chuckles as is playing, and we see the dinosaur, we see the penny, the big penny, because you can't have a batcade without the big penny or the dinosaur, and we get this amazing splash page turn of the title, which I hate that this came out like early because I I if I'd have seen this by reading the book, my job would have like I'd have had to lift the book up because I'd have started drooling all over the page because it's so it's such a great splash page.

SPEAKER_08 19:03

It is horrifying though.

SPEAKER_04 19:05

Joker is sitting in this chair, and he is almost like half Joker monster, half human, and his mouth is just gaping open with all these teeth, and he's laughing as loud as he can. And in this chair, um he's in a suit, he's still got his like suit on, like uh like a like a suit and tie. Um there are the dead babies hanging all over his arms. Yeah. Um, and I I don't know if you've noticed, but every single one of them has a tube coming out of their head. Yeah. So I wonder what that like we still don't know what this is about. We still have no clue what this is or why he needs these babies or like what they're doing for him. Like, because clearly he's getting some charge or some, you know, like something from these bodies that that's making him either normal or keeping him alive or something.

SPEAKER_07 19:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 19:53

We don't know. But that open panel of just like, oh my gosh, you know, like it's just it's it it's like if you know Jack Grimm, you know, because he's in charge of these foundations and he's in charge of like the Robin thing and all that stuff, if you were to walk into his house and see this, that would've been like the the most, oh my god, what am I looking at? Like, what is wrong with this man? Um it's just such a cool band.

SPEAKER_08 20:15

Did you catch in the background here of this blast page that there is the Court of Owls and Black Mask behind him?

SPEAKER_04 20:21

I did see that. Yes, there is a there is a skull in a container and a court of owls mask, also in a like a display case. Right. Um, in his back cave or joker cage. Joker cave.

SPEAKER_08 20:32

Um so as we turn the page, then we get to a newscast, and this is uh a news reporter is interviewing the mayor, the new mayor, and it's talking about well, this Robin initiative is doing so great, because we saw last issue that the Robin initiative was put in to basically stop Batman. Yeah. And we see uh here that they're talking about how the Robins are brave people who have faced personal tragedy.

SPEAKER_04 20:57

Unlike Batman.

SPEAKER_08 20:58

Yeah, yeah, and and who want to use that to be better people. Yeah. And so there's that line, like you said, that they use it that they're the opposite of Batman.

SPEAKER_04 21:07

Yeah, they're the opposite of Batman. And it and the first thing it shows when it says that line is a picture of young Bruce Wayne holding the Batbridge that he made to get him into the zoo, which caused him to become Batman. Or supposedly caused him to become Batman.

SPEAKER_08 21:21

Because then we see some files on Project Batman, which is Jack Grimm's project to make Batman.

SPEAKER_04 21:29

To make Batman with the word the the fo main focus words that Bruce is reading is Dr. Crane believes Bruce to be success subsessable. There we go.

SPEAKER_08 21:39

I can you can it's one of those words you can read.

SPEAKER_04 21:43

He's su oh suspicious. Susceptible.

SPEAKER_00 21:46

Susceptible, yeah.

SPEAKER_08 21:47

Yeah. I still can't say it. To what? I don't know. To the Batman project.

SPEAKER_04 21:56

He sees this person and he's like, This is the person we need for the job.

SPEAKER_07 22:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 22:00

Um in that same moment, you his his helmet starts going off, and Barbara Gordon is radioing in from her helmet that she has in her apartment, and she's like, Batman, you know, please just tell me that this wasn't you. Like, I I don't want to believe that you killed Gordon. Will you please like please just tell me that this wasn't your fault? And at that same time, he looks up at uh Jim Gordon's overcoat that's hanging in this room. And it's just like it's not his fault, but to him, he's like, Is it? Because if I didn't exist, this wouldn't have happened, you know? Um, which is just uh, you know.

SPEAKER_08 22:36

I saw somebody take this page, by the way, where where Jim Gordon's coat is hanging up, and somebody had put it uh on on a meme and was like, the absolute team who just continues to punish Batmanches because the Marvel Spider-Man team is like, write that down, write that down, write that down. We gotta do that. We gotta do that.

SPEAKER_04 22:56

Now I love this part with Harley Quinn because uh Alfred is standing outside the door being like, Come on, dude, you've been in there for like a week. Like, I need to know you're alive. And Harley comes in and she's like, she's like, Out of my way. And Alfred's like, you can't knock this door down with a hammer. This is a security vault door. And she says, it's not a hammer, it's a 92,000 volt magnesium magnesium amplified double lithium extra extra electrochemical thunder, thunderfuck M-A-L-L-E-T 92.

SPEAKER_03 23:30

And I couldn't say that you can jump in the box.

SPEAKER_08 23:36

But she busts down the door.

SPEAKER_04 23:38

He does, yep.

SPEAKER_08 23:39

And Bruce is not there.

SPEAKER_04 23:40

Bruce is not there. The uh there is a sewer grate on the floor that has been open and moved, and he is gone. And on the next page, we get to see a character that we haven't got to see a lot about. Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 23:52

We finally get to see Whalen in a full human form. No, no killer croc butt this time. Yep. Uh, but we also get to see Enigma, yeah, the riddler.

SPEAKER_04 24:02

And he is fully completely different than we have seen him. Um, he's got this really elongated pointer finger. I guess that's really good to get the boogers out of his nose. Um that'd probably hurt. That probably would hurt. Um, I don't know. I think it is really creepy. I didn't notice that. Yeah, his finger. I thought he was holding something. I see that now and though. Yeah, he could be holding something, but I think it's his finger. But I think it's their finger. He he's just talking about riddles, and Waylon is like, hey man, we gotta figure out something about Bruce, which is reassuring because it's like I figured Weyland would be pissed at Bruce after Bruce was like, I I'm done. I'm sorry. Yeah. And just left him. But it seems like he's like, hey, everybody in this group is broken. Everybody is is trying to um, everybody's trying to what what did what did they say? They say um um everybody's got their own, it's like occupied or uh yeah, ever like yeah, everyone is occupied with their own things and and you know, we gotta we gotta lock in and and get work together. This is the way forward. This is the way forward. And uh there's this really cool thing of like uh Wayland's like, Can you look at me? And all of the screens in the room mirror uh like show Edward's face, and he goes, I am looking at you. And it's like, ooh.

SPEAKER_08 25:12

But it's it's really insane. So to describe this panel is that Enigma has a computer really hooked up to his brain, and he's like dancing almost, it looks like, yeah, and he's solving these riddles, but around him uh is just a like a thousand, a hundred computer screens. Yeah, and he's just watching them, and so on the computer screens, it's it was his face before Bane destroyed it pretty much. Yeah, and uh so that's really cool. And then as we turn, we see that um Nygma is keeping tabs on uh Harvey and and um Cobblepot, yeah. And I'm really I I can't wait for the next issue because that's when we're supposed to see more of them.

SPEAKER_07 25:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 25:58

Uh but we see that uh Two Face, who is supposed to be like a punisher in this universe, yeah. He's he's watching some people, a guy take two girls to a bar um and he's flipping his coin.

SPEAKER_04 26:11

It's a it's a it's a poker chip. Yeah, yeah, it's a poker chip, which I'm I'm wondering how that because a coin is a little different because it's like a 50-50 thing, but how does a I guess unless the poker chip is burned on one side? I don't know.

SPEAKER_08 26:22

There's some covers that were released for War 21 where they it it's a bunch of different poker chips. Huh. Okay but but they play poker, remember? The all the games. They play poker, you're right.

SPEAKER_04 26:31

Yeah, they do in those first issues. Huh. Interesting. I need to go back and I need to like I I'm trying to reread it as consistently as possible because it's my favorite book right now. Um and I did reread this like two times before you came over just to really get into it. Um yeah, and then we we see Cobblepot, and he's just kind of being a mafia boss, and um he's completely just like tired. I guess he's just he's just mad at everything now after after his really awful disfiguration. Right, you know.

SPEAKER_08 26:58

Um he's telling them to gather the gather the weapons, gather the bombs, gather all of this. And uh we don't know what his plans are, but he's got something going on.

SPEAKER_04 27:07

Yeah, they're gonna they're gonna do something. Yeah. And um we get this moment of Wayland sits down and he's like, you know, hey, like um, you know, he's talking to to the Riddler and he's like, you know, quit being so occupied. Like look at me and and like let's talk. And Wayland kind of sits down and he's like, you know, like, you know, they burned me too. Like I'm I'm also facing this. And you actually um Edward takes his plug out of his head so he can sit down with him. And I don't know if you notice the monitors turn into the little dinosaur game, like when you run out of internet. Oh, they do whatever he unplugs. So I thought I thought that was a really cool little detail. Um, but he sits with him and he's like, you know, like he's like, but you're fixed, Waylon. Like, you know, we're all still trying to figure things out. And he's like, I'm trying to figure out there's parts of my brain that aren't as fast as the rest of my brain, and I'm trying to figure out that riddle. And Waylon takes off his glasses and his eyes are still yellow, he still has crocodile eyes. Yeah. And he's like, you know, Eddie, I'm I'm not fixed either. Like, there's still traces of me. And and they kind of have this, it's like it's a really cool moment from Enigma. It's a hopeful moment where he's like, he puts the riddles down for a minute and he's like, How how can we work together to to help Bruce? Um He says, What do you think? Um, what are you thinking we do about Bruce? Which is a kind of a scary line, but but it seems like he's there, they're trying to help everybody.

SPEAKER_08 28:29

I think they'll I I I really think that the two hardest ones to win over will be Harvey and Oz. Yeah. Um I think those they were the ones who were essentially punished the most by Bane. Yeah. Um I think it's gonna be a hard win a hard argument to try to win them back, but I think eventually he's gonna need all of them to take down the Joker.

SPEAKER_04 28:52

There's no there's no other way, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Um now is the Two Face issue next, and then it's is is Two Face coming up? Is it gonna be Two Face and then and then P1?

SPEAKER_08 29:01

I think I I think so, but it could also be that they might be variants.

SPEAKER_04 29:06

I think they're just variants. They I know they just revealed those covers and before like because issue 21 has the the robins on the cover, and Batman's like climbing into the sewer and he's so battle damaged. Yes. Um but originally the covers for uh on League of Comic Geeks was the the Dragata artwork of of Two Face and then of Penguin. We might I might I'll definitely have to get those variants. I really like those covers.

SPEAKER_08 29:28

There's only 14 variants for 21 right now. And uh it looks like it's gonna be a very heavy two-faced penguin issue because almost every variant with the exception of like three have them on it.

SPEAKER_04 29:40

Noted.

SPEAKER_08 29:41

So it it'll probably be a very big issue.

SPEAKER_04 29:45

I'm just wondering how that's gonna tie into everything that we've got coming up in this issue, because this issue it gets into a lot of like what is going on. I don't know. This this is so far, I I'm like that we haven't had much of this arc, but so far I'm enjoying this arc more than the others. Yeah. Not as much as Abomination. Abomination is my favorite. Yeah, Bane, Bane is good. This one is getting, it's I can see it moving closer to to passing it. If if things keep going really intently like they are.

SPEAKER_08 30:10

Because we have to build that's we're we're what, two issues in?

SPEAKER_04 30:13

Two issues into this arc, yeah.

SPEAKER_08 30:14

So we really have to kind of build it up.

SPEAKER_04 30:17

Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 30:20

It's gonna explode.

SPEAKER_04 30:21

Oh my gosh, yeah. When the building's great, because we we transition to another scene. We kind of go back into the past and we see a little bit about uh Bruce and I get is that Falcone? I guess that's Falcone. Yeah. Um, and they are um, it turns out that he is putting Bruce into Blackgate uh as a way to uh that's how he's gonna work off his debt. And he's gonna be uh Falcone's eyes and ears inside of Blackgate. Um they convinced the judge to give him six months instead of six years for what he did. And he his main goal is to find all the inner workings and the ins and outs of Blackgate, as that is one of the uh one of the biggest business run-through area in Gotham is that is that is that facility. And he says, You're gonna learn every single way in and out, and then we transition to him flying into Blackgate as Batman using one of those entrances. Yeah. Um and this is this is the most insane, like this is not action heavy, right? But the amount of weight that this this these next few pages carry is unfathomable. I'm so excited to talk about this because Scarecrow's presence is just like it's different, you know. We've never had a scarecrow that's not just like fear gas, now I'm scary. You know, this is like this, he's intimidating without it. Yes, you know, and I'm very scared because I know at some point he's gonna use it on Batman. And when he does, what is that gonna look like? Yeah. But right now we get to see what it's doing to others and just what kind of a person Crane is.

SPEAKER_08 31:51

So Batman breaks into Batgate. Black Black Batgate, no. Batgate. Blackgate. Yes, and he meets Joe Chill. Yes. Joe Chill killed his dad. His dad. And Joe Chill kind of freaks out, what are you doing here? You're not supposed to be here. And I love this panel, and it circled online for a little bit, but it's Batman. No one on earth can protect you from me. Yeah. Not until I hear that it's a lie. Yes. I'm like, yeah. Um, and so Batman kind of grabs Joe Chill, pulls him close, yeah, and uh we can we can you can take it off.

SPEAKER_04 32:30

So he he he pulls him in and he's like, I was given these files by Jim, and like you weren't there to you weren't you were there with a target. You weren't just there killing people. Because it's revealed too that you know, for throughout this entire book so far, every week he goes to the prison to talk to Joe. Yes. Every week, and for the past few weeks, Joe hasn't been showing up right on his end in the prison. He's not talking. When he does show up, he doesn't talk, and then the past time he didn't even come at all. So something and then and then right after this, they moved him to this more secure wing to Blackgate. Yeah. So he's like, You had a specific target, and you know, like um he says, uh, he's talking about Bruce, and he's like, That Bruce is pouring over these tapes and constantly looking into what what you did, and like you're really gonna sit here and act like you didn't do anything, like it's just a coincidence that they move you from one wing to the other, and at that moment he's like, Help me, someone, please help me. And and Batman's like, say it, say it's a lie. And we get a match strike in the bed, and there's Scarecrow, which just the the snap presence of his just him being there, it's like whoa.

SPEAKER_08 33:38

That that threw me for a loop. I think it's like that.

SPEAKER_04 33:41

Yeah, that's a like if this was a movie or a show, yeah, dude, this would be the most exciting thing to watch. Just and then he's just there and you're like, oh shit. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_08 33:50

Like and it's that and and he doesn't he doesn't even say like, hey, con he he what he says is yeah, easy there, friends.

SPEAKER_04 33:57

Yeah, you you killed Jim Gordon is me. I heard it was you, but my guess it just became too much to him. Happens a lot these days, you know? And like we he he puffs a cigarette and he blows it in in uh Joe's face Joe's face and he says, Why don't you go make your bed while we talk? He's like, Okay. And he starts going and making his bed. And uh, you know, uh Scarecrow, he he's talking about how like now I know you're like you know he first of all, he knows he's Bruce. Yeah. He's like, you know, he's he calls him Bruce, and then on top of it, he's like, I get why you're angry, like none of this makes sense. The Batman project, like what even like what is all this? And you know, he says, uh uh that's uh that's because you're missing the key, the reason for it, why you of all people were were chosen for this part. And he's like, you know, he just says, like, why would I listen to you? You're just another one of his operatives, and this is the best, this is the hardest thing I've heard anyone say. He says, could be maybe I am some operative, traveling the world, toppling governments, causing panic, yada, yada, or maybe I'm just a straw man out for a walk.

SPEAKER_03 35:11

Oh, and that's the title of the book, and it's like I almost grabbed my mic and started shaking, and I'm just so like that was just so like oh, I don't know, like his just his like minor presence is just so like I know that this isn't that this guy has more to him. Yeah, like he is like oh he's so scary, and he hasn't even done anything yet. No, but he just talked, he just talked, that's it.

SPEAKER_04 35:34

Yeah, and and he says, you know, like he he tells Bruce that the reason uh why was this all done to you? And he said, It's because of your mother. Your mum mother was a loyal member to the court of owls, a terrorist. And Batman's like Batman's like, shut up! And in that moment, he reaches in the cell and two or two-face, uh, Scarecrow pulls out a switchblade and stabs him under his arm.

SPEAKER_08 36:00

Like by the armpit. I said, How much do that hurt? Like that hurts just thinking about it, man.

SPEAKER_04 36:05

Yeah, and what's so cool about this page is this page has splatter up, like because all these have all these pages on in the book have white borders. This one has blood splatter. Yeah, like it's like it's you know, which is so cool. That's such a really cool little detail. And you know, he says, uh, you know, he's like, Gordon hid it from you, and and you know, like he also says, uh, but all this is true. In fact, it's where your mother ran off to, uh, to their super secret headquarters, though. From what I hear, that didn't end too well either. So we still don't know about Martha. I don't think she's dead, but something she could be. Yeah. But like, you know, something, you know, there's something going on there that we've very like Scott's avoiding for some specific reason. Like it's gonna be some big break.

SPEAKER_08 36:50

She's gonna show up and she's gonna kill Scarecrow or something.

SPEAKER_04 36:52

That or yeah, oh dude, that would be sick. She comes up, she comes in as a court of like or she comes in as the talon to help Batman. Oh, peak. Um, but finally we get this we get this line and he's like, um uh he says, um what your mind really think back to that day at the zoo. You really don't remember any signs. A calling from high above, maybe? Yeah, you remember. Now, I know it's hard realizing your whole life was some project, but the good news is it's not. See, Grim and I, we thought it'd be funny, after all. What's the what's the natural prey of an owl, Bruce? That's right. A bat. That's the why of your life. Batman isn't a project, he's a joke.

SPEAKER_06 37:38

Oh my god. Oh like, dude.

SPEAKER_08 37:43

Oh, yeah. So we talked about it briefly before we recorded. And uh you went back to issue one, issue two, and you were looking and you're like, man, if this is if there are crows in these issues, I'm gonna just melt into a puddle. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 37:57

And there is there is, if you go back to issue two of Absolute Batman, uh, there's a flashback of like a real quick flashback of what's happening, and the first panel on the top of the page is crows flying in the air. Yeah so it's not like a super zoomed-in, like, you know, like a ca or like you know, like they've been doing with these scarecrow issues so far. Right. But it's there. Yeah, you know, so like there's been some planning, which is great, which is that's that's what I that this is how a comic should be written, you know? Like you don't have to have everything mapped, like you don't have to have everything written, right, before you start. But he he Scott clearly had a mapping, right? He had a map of just a just a basic, like, hey, on this, make sure you have crows flying in the air, right? Make sure you have this, and like this is gonna lead into this where this happens. And then when you actually get to that issue, that's when you spread the details out even farther. But man, his writing is awesome. Yeah, and just like again, this issue is not action-heavy, it's just dialogue. And this is a great example of like, you know, we've said before, like, oh, you know, we've we've been accused with Ultimate Spider-Man that like not every issue has to be action-level, and we we're like, yeah, it doesn't, but oh, this is so good.

SPEAKER_08 39:02

This is an example of that.

SPEAKER_04 39:03

Yeah, this is a good clear example.

SPEAKER_08 39:05

What did we talk about? We talked about dialogue needs to serve a purpose, it needs to further the story, it needs to push the it needs to reveal character motivation, it needs to do X, Y, and Z, right? Right, right. You can't just have it just everybody sitting down at dinner talking about, well, this is so cool. Like, I'm so glad you're Spider-Man, and I'm so glad that you're Green Goblin. Yeah, we're cool.

SPEAKER_04 39:23

And like I'm secretly mysterious, but you know, like, oh, you know, this is great. NJ, what are you eating for dinner? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_08 39:29

So it's it's that's this is why Absolute Batman is the best book on the market. Oh, for sure.

SPEAKER_04 39:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 39:33

Um, and that's so that that almost pains me to say because I'm like, for years, I was like, I hate Batman, he's so stupid. But then this is like, ah man, this is this is peak.

SPEAKER_04 39:43

It still makes me so, yeah. Like all the like we we talk about a lot of like how people on social media are like, um, I personally think it's like not not to get on a side tangent, but I personally think it's like an ad. Like I think they get paid to do that, and they're like, oh my gosh, this is literally peak. Oh my gosh. But if if you are genuinely described, like I don't I don't want to sit and call everything peak because I think that's yeah, it's just it's we're we're stomping on the word. Absolute Batman for sure is peak. Yeah, like every single scene is just brutal and like jaw-dropping, and and there's not a bad issue, yeah, right. Like my least favorite issue is issue 11, just because it the whole issue is like a hypothetical issue, but like it's still not bad. Yeah, right. And even this issue where there's no action, it's just like you're watching this intense moment play through, you know? Like it just it's I I've never seen like I haven't seen a comic do this in a long time. No, no, and it just it it really takes its time building up those emotions and setting like how much of a threat Scarecrow is, right? Just being a straw man right now, right? Like he's not like we don't know what he's gonna turn into, but right now, like he's just like what is he? Like the the the premise of this whole book is we don't know what any of these characters are or their goals, and that's so good because it's like they have we know they have goals, right, and we know that they're up to something, but it it's just slowly giving us a piece at a time, and once we get that piece, we're like, oh, oh, this I need more, give me more.

SPEAKER_03 41:09

You know, as soon as I got done reading this issue, I was like, Oh, I gotta wait a month for this next one, come on.

SPEAKER_04 41:13

That's how I felt, yeah.

SPEAKER_08 41:15

Um, so at the end of that little dialogue where he talks about uh the the crows, he talks about how uh the owl is the natural predator of the bat, and and how Batman is nothing but a joke, not even a project. Yeah, he asks, You done making your bed, Joe? You turn the page, and Joe Chill is making a noose with his bed sheets. And Batman's trying to say, Hey, what are you doing? No, no, no, no, no, no. Yeah, and stop, stop. And um and then Scarecrow, this is the line that I kind of thought was um interesting. Scarecrow says, They say we live in an age of fear. But me, I disagree. And and just he goes on to talk about how a hundred years ago a farmer feared certain things, but now he still fears things, and I all I could think about was the last issue with all the the farmers then.

SPEAKER_00 42:06

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 42:08

And so Joe continues to try to hang himself, he he ties it to the pipe. Batman tries to stop him, and uh Joker or Scarecrow continues to speak. Uh Batman trying to save Joe. Uh like we're not doing it, we're not even doing this justice, like by telling you about the the panels are so intense. Yes. Nick Dragata's art, man. Oh my gosh, phenomenal. Yes, yes. Um and he's talking he's trying to save him. Well, Scarecrow pulls out his same switchblade and cuts Batman's cape where he's trying to wrap around Joe and save him, but it's so it doesn't work. And Joe is there hanging, and that's a panel, man. That I'm like, that is crazy dark. I have never seen a comic full-on show someone hanging themselves.

SPEAKER_04 42:56

Especially from DC or Marvel, right? You don't see that in in the big what used to be the big two. Yeah. That DC is definitely the big one of the big ones right now, but like you don't you don't see.

SPEAKER_08 43:05

It's always implied, right? Right. This is you see him tie the noose, you see him tie it to the pipe, and you see him, his body hanging there.

SPEAKER_04 43:13

Yeah, you see it fully. And at the same time, when it fully shows him hanging, and he's like, it's it's it's it's done, all the crows start calling all over the room, and it's just like that. Oh, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_08 43:28

I I hope one day this gets turned into a series or something because yes, yeah, it it it would be so intense.

SPEAKER_04 43:35

It would be, yes, it would be crazy. There's like I'm trying to get my dad to read it. I really want him to read it, but he does he I don't think he really likes sitting and reading comics. Okay. Um, but it's like it's moments like these that I'm like, my dad would be like, Oh my gosh, this is crazy. Yeah, you know what I mean? And um Joe hangs himself, and and Scarecrow says, you know, I guess that's my cue to walk on. And he says, Um, but you take care, Bruce, and please keep it. Deep digging. There's a lot more to discover. And I promise it's so much worse than you think. And he walks past Joe and he pushes his body, and his body is swinging. And he walks into the shadow and just disappears. Yeah. And it's like what an exit, first of all. And it's just like the the mature. I'm I'm so glad we're getting a mature book. Yes. You know what I mean? Like, as like I I I'm I've been so tired, and you know, we'll when we get in our Marvel talk, we'll I'm sure we'll cover that. But it's so nice to get a book that's like this is for adults. You know, like in and in comics they kill people, like that's normal. But this being like a like he's hanging there, and Scarecrow just pushes his body and swings his body back and forth while he's hanging there dead. Like that's such a horrible image. Yeah. You know what I mean? And but so good. And we get the alarm blaring, and uh, an officer comes by and he's like, You there, freeze! And Batman runs and jumps out the hole that he entered through.

SPEAKER_08 44:58

Right.

SPEAKER_04 44:59

And um, if you want to say you want to take the next part.

SPEAKER_08 45:02

So then we have another flashback back to Falcone. He has told Bruce uh that you are now going to be the bat, and he hands him a baseball bat because he's in the prison. Bruce is in the prison in this flashback, and uh he's basically going to be Falcone's enforcer in the prison. And uh this is really interesting because it ties with what Scarecrow is basically saying, and Falcone tells him everyone has to do it, you'll do great. It's just a bat, it's a tool. Nothing special about it at all, which is exactly what Scarecrow is saying.

SPEAKER_04 45:38

Yeah, and um you know what? Just take it away.

SPEAKER_08 45:43

The final part of this issue is a big like oh, this is and I really thought that was it. Like, yeah, we we end on nothing special at all. I'm like, okay, well, what else could possibly happen that's gonna blow my mind? Well, Batman is flying through the clouds after escaping from Blackgate, and he's talking to uh Alfred, and they're and Alfred's like, hey, I haven't heard from you in a few days. Like, are you okay? He's like, Um, I I I couldn't stop Joe Chill. I he killed himself just as um at Gordon did, and I I don't know what's going on anymore. And then you see, stop by the authority of the Robin Initiative, and this giant mech just floats out of the clouds. It's like insane. And it says, You're under arrest, and Batman kind of like flies into the mech almost, and so he immediately flies down and he says, he's running. Robin 2, you got him? And I thought this was funny. This is Jason Todd's mech, and he's like, Oh, I'm on him.

SPEAKER_04 46:37

R2 opening fire, and I'm like, and he's just Jason Todd is in this huge mech with a gun, yep, and he's just and you see like the cityscape and you see all the bullets flying into the sky.

SPEAKER_08 46:52

Looks like a World War II scene. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 46:55

Literally.

SPEAKER_08 46:55

And this is one guy in a mech suit. Yeah. Um, all the all the rot they're kind of having some crossfire.

SPEAKER_09 47:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 47:02

Um, Jason's almost hitting uh Dick Grayson. Batman lands on the ground because Jason blows up the shoots apart his wings, Batman's wings, yeah, and he crashes. And then the other Robins, Duke, Stephanie, and Tim, are on motorcycles and they're driving and chasing him down. And uh one of them.

SPEAKER_04 47:21

I was gonna say the motorcycle transforms into a bodysuit for for all those other robins. And Alfred's like, Alfred's like, kid, you've got to get out of there. And Batman says, no. And he pulls, he puts the click in his axe and he pulls the axe out, and he's like, and all the robins are all right, then Batman times up, and then that's the end of the day.

SPEAKER_08 47:40

That's it.

SPEAKER_04 47:41

Whoa.

SPEAKER_08 47:41

I was so mad.

SPEAKER_04 47:43

That was oh, such a great, like, such a great like cliffhanger on the next issue. And and also, like, something I had thought about when I was reading it, uh, when I read it the first time and we got to the scarecrow parts in the prison. Yeah, I was like, man, this was supposed to be the introduce the introduction of the absolute robins, and we've not even got that yet, and I'm so enjoying the story. Right. Like, normally I'd be like, where's the cover? Like, where's all this stuff happening? But I'm just like, I'm so invested in everything that's going on. Because we get a glimpse of Joker, we get a glimpse of Two Face and and Cobblepot and Riddler and Wayland. We get we get to see what everybody's doing in this issue.

SPEAKER_07 48:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 48:16

And fantastic issue. Scott, Nick Dragata, Frank Martin, everybody on this on this book, awesome job. Like an awesome killer job. You are killing this book.

SPEAKER_08 48:27

That that panel of Batman just being like, no. It's just so awesome.

SPEAKER_04 48:32

I I like I'm I'm so I'm so glad I'm on this book. I'm so glad you got me reading this book. Because if like I, you know, I was actually I talked to my girlfriend this morning, and I have a bad habit of going through phases of things, and I'm like, I'm into one thing for a little bit, and then I stop and then into something else. We all do this. We all do it, yeah. And I had to ask her, I was like, Do you think do you think this is a phase? Like, or have you thought this was a phase? And she was like, No. And she was like, and here's why. She said, honestly, like you, you needed this book. You needed absolute Batman because of how other comics were just tearing you up so bad. You needed a book that's this, that's this exciting.

SPEAKER_08 49:07

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 49:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 49:08

I you know, I'll I and I testify to that because I've always said and I've always told my wife that when we have a baby, I will stop buying comics. And I told her that. And and I I said I was gonna stick with that. And then with Absolute Batman coming out, with Absolute Superman and all these other books, I mean Transformers is part of this too. Right. But these are books that are so great right now that she said, you can't like first off, that's who you are. Uh, and I appreciate her for saying like like supporting me in that. Um, but she's like, You are enjoying these stories way too much to give them up.

SPEAKER_07 49:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 49:43

And I was like, Yeah, you're right, but I'll stop. And she's like, No, they're a part of who you are. And it was just really sweet. That's really cool. Yeah. Um, but the same thing, I would have happily stopped reading comics, but now I'm like, Absolute Batman? Yeah, but but dear, please.

SPEAKER_04 49:57

But you actually you actually just hopped onto the physical of Absolute Batman.

SPEAKER_08 50:00

I did because, and I'll I'll admit it now on air, uh, because I I wasn't I wasn't going to because I was trying to save an intern his job, uh, but it seems like the intern got fired. Uh on DC Infinite, there for the longest time, yeah. The absolute Batman issue of whatever was coming out that week was releasing online on D on DC Infinite. So I was like, I'll just keep reading it like this. Yeah, yeah. Well, unfortunately this week we'll just stop doing it. Yeah. The poor intern must have got caught and got fired.

SPEAKER_04 50:29

Hey, what are you doing? Get out of here. It's it' hey, it's worth picking up though. You know, five bucks a month, it's not, you know, it's it's worth it. Yeah. And um, but yeah, so I I um you weren't able to get one in time, so I luckily I was uh I was out of town working, so I just grabbed a copy there, and then my copy that was in my box at our store, I just gave it to you. I was just like, here you go.

SPEAKER_08 50:49

Like you just have you know, but I did hop on physical copy, so I would be buying them.

SPEAKER_04 50:53

And again, like you know, I know you're trying to save money for the you know for for the baby and all that stuff, but like it's it's five bucks. You know, it's a chunk change, you know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_08 51:00

Yeah, yeah. Five bucks. They can't even get you a million McDonald's anymore.

SPEAKER_04 51:04

Yeah, exactly. It can get you an absolute Batman issue, which is all you need.

SPEAKER_08 51:07

I'll starve for the month.

SPEAKER_04 51:09

But yeah, so so uh overall, overall ratings on this issue, all overall ratings on this story in this arc.

SPEAKER_08 51:15

Um, so far, uh beyond the pool list for sure.

SPEAKER_04 51:18

100% beyond the pool list. I wish it could go like I wish there was a tier above beyond the pool list because this is this is phenomenal work. Yes, like phenomenal, phenomenal writing, phenomenal art. Like the story, the characters, like kudos to Scott Man. I I would love to he he teaches writing classes on like a certain website. I would love to be on those. I would love to go because I would love to figure out how he how he like when all this when Absolute Batman is over or like farther along in a completely new arc or whatever, right? I would love to hear how he started this book and how he planned everything out from the very beginning. I hope I can meet him and ask him. Hopefully, maybe one day we get him on the show. That'd be sick. That would be awesome.

SPEAKER_01 51:59

You know, uh hey, if you want to come on the show, just reach out to us on Instagram at combination1776.

SPEAKER_04 52:04

We will we will answer you back.

SPEAKER_01 52:06

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 52:07

110,000 percent. Um, but yeah, I would love to pick his brain because you know, as a writer, it that this is a complex story. Yeah, and it's hard to like it, it's I it's not hard, but it look like looking at it from outside in, I wonder how much like he's got all these puzzle pieces and he's got to put them in places that they've never been before. Right. And it's like, how do you put that together and build this story so differently from what we've already had? Yeah. So I'd love to pick his brain on that, but this is such a good book, such a phenomenal, such a phenomenal story.

SPEAKER_08 52:38

We've said it before, we'll say it again. If you're not reading comics and you want to pick just pick up one book out there, it is absolute Batman.

SPEAKER_04 52:45

Yes, pick up absolute Batman. And and I don't think we're gonna have more print issues. Of course, this issue had the print problem, but none of the issues before have had that. And that happens sometimes. You know, that's a comic book thing. I mean, I remember working at Mountain Empire, uh, I when I worked there, uh Amazing Spider-Man 800 came out and they left a highlighter in the box and it fled through five issues. Like it that stuff happens, you know. Like it's not it's just unfortunate, but you know, buy the comics to read them. I mean, if you're gonna resell them, the here here's my here's my one collector advice. If you want to collect comics, collect what you love. Yeah, do not worry about the value of something, do not worry about like and and worry like when I bought Absolute Batman number one, you know, I got it at a good time before it skyrocketed, you know, because I knew it was gonna go up, but I bought it for myself because I really wanted him to sign that book and I really wanted that in my collection, not because I wanted to turn around on a profit. So when you collect, collect for yourself, and then if it's valuable, it'll it'll work out for you.

SPEAKER_08 53:37

Yeah, yeah, and and and truly, like if you get third, fifth, sixth, whatever prints, it it doesn't matter if you're collecting for the story. Yeah, but I did want to say it is a good thing you bought that absolute Batman number one. Yeah, because Scott Snyder not only signed it, but he He drew a Batman head on it.

SPEAKER_04 53:52

Yeah, it's just so cool. That is so awesome. So absolutely worth the absolutely worth the yeah, and what it's uh it the one just sold recently for $400, as we said on our last episode. So I got it right before it got big. So, you know, good timing. You know, you it's all about good timing. You just gotta you just gotta, you know, if you feel if it feels right in your gut, do it. Um but pick up pick up Absolute Batman. If you're not reading it and you want to get into comics, pick up Absolute Batman. Is it is the best book that I have read since Donnie Kate's Venom.

SPEAKER_08 54:18

Yep. Yeah, it is probably one of the best books I've ever read. Yeah in general.

SPEAKER_04 54:22

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_08 54:23

Uh so with Absolute Batman, one of the successful things that they do on there is the fact that they let the writers do what they want to do.

SPEAKER_04 54:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 54:32

And some companies. My heart is racing.

SPEAKER_04 54:36

It's time, here we go.

SPEAKER_08 54:37

Some companies think that that is the best selling point.

SPEAKER_04 54:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 54:41

And they are stupid.

SPEAKER_01 54:46

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_08 54:47

Because yes, we do want writers to do their job. Go in there, tell stories, that's what you're hired to do, that's what you do, right?

SPEAKER_02 54:55

Right.

SPEAKER_08 54:56

But it's not everything.

SPEAKER_02 54:58

Right.

SPEAKER_08 54:59

So Marvel recently announced the Midnight series. And they announced that they're doing an X-Men, a Fantastic Four, uh what was the other one?

SPEAKER_02 55:09

And Spider-Man. Spider-Man, it's just three. It's just the three, yeah.

SPEAKER_08 55:12

Okay. So they released a cover for the X-Men. And the X-Men has Storm and Nightcrawler on the cover. And the premise of this story is that the X-Men are no longer looking for unity in this world, in this universe. They are actually vampires. What the heck, Marvel? Are you stupid? I think you are. We don't know much about the Fantastic Four other than the fact that they went to space and something went horribly wrong. So they're not the classic heroes that we know.

SPEAKER_07 55:44

Right.

SPEAKER_08 55:44

All we know about Spider-Man basically is that it's man spider going up against Oscorp.

SPEAKER_04 55:50

Right. It's it what was it? It what's it's the tagline for the Spider-Man was with great power comes great monstrosity. Yeah. Yeah, which is weird. Um, but the tagline for the whole universe is the light has had its turn. That's the whole tagline, which is kind of like straight up, they're copying absolute.

SPEAKER_08 56:06

They're straight up copying absolute. And here's my freaking problem, dude. Here's what makes me so mad is instead of trying to make a whole freaking universe where we're trying to compete with the competitors, how about you just work on your whole freaking main universe and and and fix the problems that you have there? Yeah. I don't know. We've been complaining about Spider-Man and Mary Jane not being married for years now, for almost 20 years now. And but we can't fix that. That's that's too much of a problem. We're we're never gonna fix that because we need Spider-Man to be 20 years old for the rest of his life and to act like a 12-year-old man child. Right. And then why touch the Fantastic Four? Like the Fantastic Four there to be ho. I dude, this just infuriates me because why try to do this is their third attempt at some alternate universe to sell books.

SPEAKER_07 56:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 56:51

And this they did the ultimate stuff the same time DC was doing the first launch of Absolute. All the absolute stuff was coming out at the same time.

SPEAKER_07 56:59

Right.

SPEAKER_08 56:59

That was originally intended to be their competitors.

SPEAKER_07 57:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 57:03

They just trashed the ultimate universe and and it was like, yeah, well, we're probably just not gonna do anything with that. We we destroyed it all in ultimate endgame. We've killed Spider-Man, we've killed Captain America, we've killed all these characters that you've come to uh actually care about in this ultimate universe. We're just gonna destroy it. Right. And we're gonna start all over with this midnight series.

SPEAKER_07 57:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 57:24

And but but again, why? Why put the energy in this if you're not gonna fix your main universe? And and I don't and DC's, I think DC is doing a good job with their main titles right now, but they they have their main universe where it needs to be so they can branch out into this story in the absolute universe. Right. But they are man, dude, it just infuriates me because it's it's so stupid that they're just they're starting all over for no reason.

SPEAKER_07 57:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 57:53

Other than to compete and we want to make money. Yeah. And that's exactly how it comes off. It's greed. And I just I'm just so annoyed with it.

SPEAKER_04 58:01

Yeah, it when you because so you called me the other day while I was at work and you were like, Did you see this? And I saw as soon as I went onto Instagram, I I pulled it up, or I I just it popped up on my Instagram feed and it was talking, it's the you know, uh the midnight, the mid- it was called Marvel Midnight, and it's like the light has had its turn, and like, you know, all like what's the the darkness is taking. And it's just like as soon as I saw that, I was like, you're literally copying absolute Batman. And when absolute Batman, when the absolute universe started, right, you had the ultimate universe.

SPEAKER_02 58:31

Right, right.

SPEAKER_04 58:31

And because I remember actually people were comparing the absolute universe to the ultimate universe, right? Which is better for the Marvel marketing because people are saying, oh, well, it's like ultimate Batman, but they're just calling it absolute instead of it being ultimate. Right. And you had you had your shot, Marvel. You had it. You had a book, you had Ultimate Spider-Man and Ultimate X, Ultimate Wolverine, and the Ultimates and all you brought all that back and you built this world where then you started to control it like you do, which one of the marketing of this book um is that we're letting the writers just do what they want. That is not a marketing tactic. No, like you should not be marketing like, yeah, we're gonna let they're we're gonna let them do their jobs. You should just be doing that. That should be a normal practice. That should, yep. You know, sure, it's okay for companies to m to moderate and to be like, hey, you know, make sure you include this because like this is a continuity error, but they're not doing that anyway. No, so you know, like at this point, don't make it a marketing tactic to sit and go, well, uh, well, we're gonna let the writer, we're not gonna interfere like we normally do, you know, because you know we do that. And and um real quick, I I have a post here that I actually wanted to read on the show. Um, that Scott Snyder actually came out and he mentioned that um he mentioned he he made a comment about the ultimate universe. Or the the midnight universe. This is from Instagram uh profile Gunverse, um, who's verified on Instagram, and he says, Marvel has raised questions for the for ending their ultimate universe when they saw how successful DC's absolute universe has been. Marvel is now launching their Midnight universe, and the fans are saying they have copied DC. Scott Snyder said, quote, sometimes the same ideas are just in the air, end quote. His full response was, quote, I love the ultimate line, but we pitched absolute before Ultimate started back in 2022. Sometimes the ideas are just in the air. We considered changing our approach when Ultimate started, uh, then decided to just keep the path, end quote. So of course these companies are going to be looking at each other and trying to compete. But first of all, kudos to DC. And I actually I appreciate Scott Snyder actually coming out and saying that. You know, like, hey, when Ultimate started, we considered re-reap reapproaching this whole thing. Right. But then they were like, no, let's just keep our which I'm glad they did because they would have copied a you know a dying animal, yeah, which was the ultimate universe. But but I I'm not at all excited. I have like, and people are already on social media doing the oh, this is gonna be peak, like Spider-Man's gonna be evil. I don't care. You know why I don't care, Clayton? Because I know in a couple of years after this book is out that they're gonna start trying to tease some big crossover with all of the monsters and the end of the world, and then it's gonna end. And then when it's over, they're gonna pitch some new freaking event. I don't care. They're gonna do blind bags, they're gonna do all the stupid little gimmicks that Marvel's doing to make their buck, and that's it. And it's like Marvel, just write, give us what we want. Sit down. You Marvel needs to just redo everything. Yeah, I mean, they need to re re put people in in editor editorial positions, they need to re-hire actors or actors, um, writers, right? And you know, um, the art's fine. Marvel's art is really good right now, um, to a certain extent, is but like the writing is not good. The the story is not good, and it it it's every decision that they are making is statistic based only. Every decision they're making is well, well, DC's doing this, so we should do something. We need a universe that's dark and gritty because D look that that's what DC no DC's absolute is successful because the writers are actually getting to do their freaking jobs, unlike what you let them do because you're so like the editorial is such a control freak at Marvel Day. And I I don't even feel like with with Midnight, I feel like at some point they're gonna still be like, Well, I think you should be this. Well, you should probably like there they're still gonna because they can't freaking help Albert Cus. They can't help it. Um they can't help but give their stupid opinions when it's like, dude, just sit back and eat your donuts and your Twinkies and let the artists let the writers do their job. Right. Sorry, just kidding.

SPEAKER_08 1:02:27

So so what I was gonna say is there is no such thing as the big two anymore. Historically speaking, in comics since the 60s, there has been the big two, Marvel and DC.

SPEAKER_07 1:02:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 1:02:39

And that has been the case for as long as comics have basically been around. Now, there is no such thing as the big two anymore. And if there is, it's DC and image.

SPEAKER_07 1:02:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 1:02:50

Because Marvel is no longer a contender. No. I I Marvel, and this was we've talked about this before, Marvel banks on the movie so hard to drive their sales, that's all they care about.

SPEAKER_07 1:03:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 1:03:01

DC cares more about the comics. Oh, yeah. And that will draw people in. And like we said, absolute Batman is a perfect example of that. Right. Marvel doesn't care. Marvel cares about your money, they don't care about telling good stories, they don't care about these characters that have been around for 60 years, they don't care about the legacy, they don't care about the character progression, they don't care about any of that. Because if they did, we wouldn't be in the boat that we're in right now. And so, Marvel, you had your time on the throne and you have now fallen.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:28

Yeah, you've fallen. And it sucks. Yeah. It sucks, especially like I grew up a Marvel fan. Yeah. You know, and um, you know, got stepping on that, like stepping back on that comment you made about like the movies, you know, like they they do that. And DC, none of their stuff has been based on the movies. No. The book the movies have been based on the books and the books are doing their own thing. Right. I mean, heck, even in Batman, Alfred died.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:50

Yeah, and he's stayed dead. Yeah. He's not been brought back.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:53

That it's it's crazy that that premise is more shocking than like it's crazy that that premise is more shocking than a character dying. Yeah. It's like, oh, because now when someone dies, oh, they're gonna be brought back. Like it's not, it's not permanent. But now it's like, like, oh my gosh, he's dead and he's not coming back. Yeah. Like, what are we gonna do? You know, and I I I think DC, you're killing it. Marvel, step it up or do something. But like, Marvel needs a complete, like, re re they need to be washed out.

SPEAKER_08 1:04:24

Marvel is going to have to do a lot to win me back. I mean a lot.

SPEAKER_07 1:04:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 1:04:30

Otherwise, I and and this kind of ties with what um I sent you earlier. Uh Patrick Gleason and I have had we've been replying, uh he's been replying to some of my comments. Patrick Gleason is a great artist, fantastic artist. And uh I've been trying to get him to do the interior work for Transformers. So hopefully my comments will uh have him go to the image office and say, I want to draw some Transformers, and they'll let him.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 1:04:53

Um, please, image, please.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:56

Patrick, come on, we know you want to do it. Please.

SPEAKER_08 1:05:00

But but he had recently posted a picture of Spider-Man on his Instagram, so it's clear he's working on some Spider-Man project. Right. And I I said right there, I don't buy Marvel comics. Your art is the only thing that kind of interests me in buying this book. And he basically said, like, whatever you do, I appreciate your support. And um, but but art alone is not going to win me over. No, and you you're the stories need to improve. You need to restore the marriage between Peter and MJ. You need to let them grow. Peter needs to no longer be a 12-year-old boy, right, uh, personality-wise anymore. And if you don't do that, Captain America, dude, like we talked about a few episodes ago, I I dropped it. And and even Diana, another person at uh Mountain Empire Comics, the the owner, uh, she was shocked. Uh she said, You're dropping Captain America? And I said, Yeah. And she said, Why? I said, It's so boring.

SPEAKER_07 1:05:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 1:06:00

So I bought issue ten because that's something our comic book store does. They when you drop a book, they give you one last issue.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 1:06:06

It's almost like um a farewell.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:09

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_08 1:06:10

Uh so so I I bought the last issue at issue ten, and I was gonna review it on the show today. Uh so here's what happens in the issue. Are you ready for this?

SPEAKER_07 1:06:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 1:06:19

Um Captain America rides a horse.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:21

Okay.

SPEAKER_08 1:06:22

Captain America finds out that Doctor Doom is a child.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:25

Okay.

SPEAKER_08 1:06:26

That's it.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:27

That's it? Pretty much it. Why does he ride a horse?

SPEAKER_08 1:06:30

He rides a horse because they're in the middle of trying to overthrow that current dictator salvation in Latinaria. And so the only way to um basically stop him is to get on a horse and beat him to this objective.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:47

Interesting.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:48

And Doctor Doom's a child?

SPEAKER_00 1:06:49

Doctor Doom's a child. What? Yeah. Why?

SPEAKER_08 1:06:53

I don't know. Not explained. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:56

Um his mother's alive? I was about to say, uh another thing about Marvel right now, too, uh, speaking onto Doctor Doom is a lot of a lot of Marvel readers are saying that they're tired of seeing Doctor Doom in all these books. Yes. Because they're put the Marvel's putting him in everything because of uh of uh Doomsday. And it's like everybody's like you're you're making your own fans tired of this. Like I'm I'm tired of seeing this character. And by the time the movie comes out, no one ever's gonna be like, oh, it's Doctor Doom. Yep, he's in Doctor Doom.

SPEAKER_08 1:07:22

See, here's something else I was gonna say to this. It's getting to the point that I'm so annoyed with Marvel, I don't even know if I want to watch the movies anymore.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:30

I'm getting there. I you know, I I don't I don't have any care about Doomsday. No, me personally.

SPEAKER_08 1:07:36

Uh Spider-Man, I might watch.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:37

I'll definitely watch Man.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:38

I gotta watch Spider-Man.

SPEAKER_08 1:07:39

The Punisher special came out this week. Um I was gonna watch it, and then I've seen clips online where it's got some of the worst CGI. It looks like PlayStation 2 graphics.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:49

Really?

SPEAKER_08 1:07:49

Yeah, whoa. So um like PlayStation 2 GTA uh graphics, and I'm like, well, that makes me not want to watch it.

SPEAKER_07 1:07:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 1:08:00

Um like I'm so disinterested in anything Marvel, I really don't care. I I don't care.

SPEAKER_07 1:08:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 1:08:06

Uh you you've almost lost me.

SPEAKER_07 1:08:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 1:08:09

I I I'm only hanging on because these are characters that I have loved since before I could even read. Um, but you've you've pretty much lost me.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:17

Yeah, I'm I'm right there with you. I actually um we I I I told myself I was gonna make this promise um on the show so I would actually be held to it. Yeah. Um I at the same time, I had this realization the other day, which uh in the next few months you'll see a post talking about it on our socials. Um but I had this, I sent a picture, I was going back and looking through some of my old comics, right? Some of my um I was actually looking through a lot of Clayton Crane stuff because I love his I love his art. And I was going back to the Carnage series, um, the Venom versus Carnage series by Patrick Milligan and drawn drawn by Clayton Crane, and then Carnage, the Carnage Independent series by Zeb Wells and Clayton Crane, and then the Carnage USA series also by Zeb Wells and Clayton Crane. Yeah. And um, when I was looking through the Venom versus Carnage series, um, if you don't know that issue, it's a four-part miniseries and it's the introduction of Toxin, uh Patrick Mulligan, the police officer who becomes toxin. And I remember I was reading that and I was like, man, this art's so good. And man, Toxic Toxin looks so cool, and man, I love like, and then I had this thought of like, where is Toxin right now? What's he doing right now? Because I genuinely forgot that he's in the new books because uh he had this really big transformation of looking like a Bucky Barnes sidekick.

SPEAKER_07 1:09:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:29

Um I I if you're listening to this, Google, Google um Toxin, Clayton Crane Toxin, and you will see the pictures of him from that book. And that it's it that's what he that's that's my toxin, right? And then look up uh Toxin Al U and uh it's in Vish Venom Issue 251, which is my least favorite Venom issue of all time. You see his like he pops up and he it's awful. Yeah, and and that's another thing. It's like you're you're tearing apart these characters that we grew up with, you know? Like you're you're especially for me, and it's like I see that and I'm like, what's happening to my favorite characters? Why are they all being watered down so profusely? Because if you don't know, real quick lore, right? Toxin is the one millionth symbiote to be born out of Venom's line of of spawn. Because Venom is, you know, the technically the father of Carnage, and Carnage is the father of Toxin. Right. Toxin is powerful. Toxin is a tank. Literally, um he has fought Carnage two separate times and beat the tar out of him. Carnage.

SPEAKER_07 1:10:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:32

Like Carnage was left laying on the ground like tired because Toxin whooped his ass so hard, right? And in these new books, he can't even take on Doc Ock. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:43

And it's like, what are we doing?

SPEAKER_04 1:10:45

Like in in that run, the big the big twist of the book is Venom and Carnage have to team up to kill Toxin because they're like they're afraid of him being too powerful and him becoming a superhero that they're like, well, we gotta kill Toxin because he could take both of us out. Right. And they team up to do it, and they still lose because he's so freaking strong. And you know, and like it it they they messed up his character so bad that I had this realization of like my characters are being completely destroyed every single month. Every month, my my favorite characters that I've grown up with, Venom, has now is now Mary Jane, all new venom, which has no story, no, no characteristics, no nothing. It's garbage. Yeah, you know, Carnage is back to being bonded with stupid freaking bugs and and animals until he becomes a big threat again, which is what we just dealt with. Okay. You have um anti-Venom who's bonded with Flash, that there's just nothing really there. He's just a character, right? And there's no story or no interesting, like you know, he died, it got brought back to life, and there's nothing there for that.

SPEAKER_08 1:11:46

Like there's no other than that he has now a secret relationship with Mary Jane, maybe or whatever, right?

SPEAKER_04 1:11:52

And and and then on top of that, you have Toxin being bonded to Rick Jones, where he's not even Toxin anymore. Yeah, he's just some sidekick guy, you know, and it's just I had this moment of like, I'm tired of this. I'm very, very exhausted, and this is literally depressing me. Yeah, it's depressing to see my characters fall from where they used to be by writers who clearly don't care. Like Al Ewing does not care about Venom. He has like, and he just he he never has. It's very I mean, maybe he did for a minute, but I don't know what he's doing, but it's not me. I have made this deal where I'm going to be on Venom through Queen and Black. By the end of this run, it's a five-part miniseries, I'm pretty sure. Okay. It's a five-part separate series. There's tie-ins. I'm not buying any tie-ins. I'm just buying Venom and I'm buying Queen and Black. No tie-ins, no additional tie-ins. Yeah. If by the end of Queen and Black um Al Uing is not off the book, if no one else gets announced to write Venom and it's still ow, I'm dropping it. I'm done.

SPEAKER_08 1:12:56

I'm gonna hold you to that.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:57

I'm done. Because I I I honestly I don't even want to get I don't really even want to get through Queen and Black, which we'll talk about the free conflict day issue, which is the tease to that. Yeah. It's just another nothing event. And it's just a it's just a we're doing this event to sell. Yeah, and it's it's like I I'm just tired. I'm tired of seeing my characters be be completely somped on.

SPEAKER_07 1:13:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:15

Because as you said with Captain America, we grew up with these characters. We I loved Venom before I could read too. Right. You know, I watched him on the 90s cartoon, I watched Spectacular Spider-Man. I remember when Spectacular Spider-Man came out, it came out every Saturday at nine o'clock on the CW. Yeah. And every morning it came out, I was just so excited for Venom. Like, because we had like what, like eight episodes before we even got to Venom. And the the only teaser they would show was like uh the symbiote crawling over a window, covering it completely black. I I was just like, I wonder what Venom looks like. I'm so excited for this character.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:47

Like and they've ruined it.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:49

They've ruined it. I can't even, I can't even like I go and I go back and read these old books and I'm like, man, I wish it was like this again. Man, I wish this is the way it was. And I and I I'm just I'm tired of it. And I'm tired of being sad, I'm tired of being disappointed in my own favorite characters that I'm gonna quit torturing myself. So if Queen and Black is over, when it is in, we we just got null, null is finished, so that is another book that I will no longer be on because it's you know it's a five-part miniseries, and the final issue just came out. When Queen and Black is over, if it's just a new number one or Al is still on it, I'm done.

SPEAKER_08 1:14:21

I I I could and I could see I could see Marvel doing that because that's how they do it. They have a big event, they'll cancel the mainline book just to relaunch it as a number one with the same creative team.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:31

Yep, and it and it just doesn't change. I'm done. I'm I'm tired of it. Because um, especially after we got uh the death count issue of of Death Power, which we're gonna get into later as well. Um everything's everything's useless. It's all it's all just whatever. And I'm I'm just I'm done. Yeah. So there's there's my rant on Marvel too.

SPEAKER_08 1:14:50

Yeah, so in our notes we have Marvel sucks. And so that's let's sum it up. Marvel sucks.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:56

That's a good two-word summary of what we just all thought. Yeah, Marvel suck. Marvel, you suck.

SPEAKER_08 1:15:00

So we have some comics that we did actually maybe enjoyed. Well, maybe for me, but not for you.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:06

I didn't enjoy it. Yeah, absolutely. We had talked about my favorite.

SPEAKER_08 1:15:09

We uh so we're gonna talk about some comics that we have on our our monthly, weekly pool list.

SPEAKER_06 1:15:15

And uh this month we are so excited to We now return to the Transformers.

SPEAKER_08 1:15:21

Yes. So uh I have a lot to talk about. I have Transformers 32 to talk about, and I have uh the Energon special, uh the Energon Universe Free Comic Book Day special.

SPEAKER_07 1:15:32

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_08 1:15:33

Um, real quick, before we get into Free Comic Book Day special uh or Transformers, did you notice that Marvel? This is just another thing that I want to rant about real quick. Marvel changed the name of Free Comic Book Day. These all say free comic book day or whatever. Marvel says it's uh comics giveaway day. I saw that and I don't know why. Because I hate them.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:52

You know, I I might know why. I I wonder if it's because a lot of people are going to the store being like, well, I want to get free comics, and then they're like, Well, only these comics are free, and you have to pay for everything else. I wonder if that's what it is.

SPEAKER_08 1:16:05

It could be, it could be fair, but they're the only ones doing it.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:08

Yeah, screw that. Screw that. Yeah, like no. Yeah, yeah, now you're gonna ruin my my one day of the year, Marvel. Right. Why don't you just turn Christmas into freaking tree day? I don't care. Like, yeah, ruin everything, Marvel. Like, like you're having your like Gabrielle's finally having her baby, and they're just like, it's not, it's not called fatherhood, it's called stupid hood.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:34

Marvel, what are you doing in the in the room? Get out of here.

SPEAKER_08 1:16:36

The doctor's like, don't you want to marvel at your baby? And I just punch you in the No!

SPEAKER_03 1:16:41

I would never, I would never marvel at no I want to DC. What does DC stand for?

SPEAKER_04 1:16:48

This is my absolute child.

SPEAKER_08 1:16:52

So Transformers 32. Uh, we are continuing. Um we picked up last where uh Megatron got the Matrix of Oppression.

SPEAKER_07 1:17:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 1:17:01

Um before that, we saw Alita 1 become Alita Prime.

SPEAKER_07 1:17:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 1:17:06

So this issue picks up on Cybertron. We pick up on Alita story. This is moments after she has left Earth, and she is um she's taking her Autobot team to Cybertron.

SPEAKER_07 1:17:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 1:17:17

And they are carrying their dead. Now, I'm not gonna spoil who the dead people are. You can't look.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:23

Yeah, because I'm because I'm yep, because I'm I'm I'm you left me the trade. I still haven't read enough.

SPEAKER_08 1:17:27

I left Paul the uh the the the hardcovers, the first 12 issues. Yep. I just want you to read it. If you don't like it, that's fine.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:34

I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna finally sit down and do it. I just I just have to sit down and do it.

SPEAKER_08 1:17:39

It's good. So they have their dead, and let me just say, if you're posting spoilers two days before this book is out, like go get a live.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:47

Like be real. Come on, come on. Okay, comic guys, listen, listen. You know it's a week. Yeah give it a week. Yeah, and then you can post spoilers. Right. Like, don't do it the day before or the day after it comes out. Not everybody can go to the store and get the book. Just wait a week. So spoilers, yeah.

SPEAKER_08 1:18:03

Spoilers got posted, and I tried to avoid them as much as I could. Um, but uh unfortunately, if you got on anything, Reddit, Instagram, people were posting it, and they really were just doing it just to get likes, and it was so annoying. But, anyways, so Alita arrives on Earth or arrives on Cybertron with her team and uh Bulkhead. There there was some stuff uh when they first initially released the pages, they just released these two here. I'm like, well, this art just it's it's gonna be very cartoony, and I'm like, uh, I'm not gonna really like that. But the art really does improve.

SPEAKER_07 1:18:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 1:18:38

Um, so, anyways, we have Bulkhead and the Autobots arrive, and Bulkhead kind of has this comedic moment where he comes to the space bridge, and um he's like, Why, why, why was I last? This was a faulty space bridge. Um, anyway, so they're trying to avoid this Decepticon territory. Yeah, they're going through, and uh, we have a really cool page of the Decepticons that have kind of gathered. Um, you have Shockwave, who is now being called Shorb. Shorb. Because not not in the comics, but in the Transformers community. Oh, okay. They're calling him Shorb because of uh something that happened that I'm not gonna spoil it. Shorb. But all that's left of his head, his one eye, is just the orb. Oh. So they're calling him Shorb. Shorb. Not going to like Shockwave Orb. They've put it together.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:25

Shorb, oh. Shorb. The Shorb.

SPEAKER_08 1:19:27

Yeah. So he uh he is gathered with a bunch of Decepticons. We see Transformers from the animated series, we see them from Transformers Prime, and uh they attack the Autobots. And I'm gonna cover this page up so you don't see any spoilers here.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:40

Um but is this like a universe, like a multiverse type event thing?

SPEAKER_08 1:19:44

Uh no, because this continuity, like everything's combined into one.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:49

Okay.

SPEAKER_08 1:19:50

So the original cartoon, all the all the cartoons have been basically combined into one universe. Got it.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:55

Okay.

SPEAKER_08 1:19:55

So there is no like multiverse stuff.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:57

Right, right, right.

SPEAKER_08 1:19:57

Um, so one of the Transformer dead bodies gets just destroyed again. No, no spoilers. Okay, and it was very sad. But what's been really cool in this run is that Ultra Magnus um has been suffering from PTSD throughout this series, and that's really cool. That I really like that they were exploring like character development. Yeah, and so there's a really cool moment where they're getting attacked by the Decepticons, and he sees his fallen, his fallen brothers, and uh he's trying to work through that PTSD, seeing these these uh Decepticons, and he's like, My people need me, my people need me, my people need me. Yeah, and then finally he kind of like works himself up and he's like, Autobots, load up and hile in. And he transforms into a truck and he drives straight into Shockwave. Oh, crap. Uh so it's it's it's a pretty cool moment there. Um, but you're seeing the Autobots basically get their butts kicked by all these Decepticons. And um Alita pulls out the Matrix and she's like, Light our darkest hour.

SPEAKER_07 1:20:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 1:20:54

And the Matrix does nothing. Oh no. And so she starts punching the Matrix. Oh my god. And I'm like, that's kind of that's kind of weird, but okay.

SPEAKER_07 1:21:03

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_08 1:21:03

Um and it turns into a sword. Oh uh, I've never seen that before.

SPEAKER_07 1:21:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 1:21:08

Um, this is the only problem I really have with this story is some of the dialogue feels really off. Um, this is Robert Kirkman, the creator of Invincible, writing this right now. And uh this is just one example. She says, Decepticons, you now face Alita Prime. She's talking about herself in third person.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:28

Like, okay.

SPEAKER_08 1:21:30

Okay. And she says, and she wields the ghost of the star saber. Like, okay. Okay. Um, but she kicks some butt, uh, she she fights them off, they're all kind of running around. This is an older moment where we see some bad dialogue from Kirkman, and it's like, this blade hungers for the foul spark of Decepticons. I hear its song, it fuels me.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:01

Kirkman. Kirkman is Kirkman was sleepy when he wrote this, and he's like, uh fueling. I'm like, Can I be done now?

SPEAKER_08 1:22:08

Yeah. I I know you can write better than that, man.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:11

Like Kirkman, come on.

SPEAKER_08 1:22:12

I still think now I will say, like, I still think this is one of the best series out there. Like, just some of this dialogue could really use some work. Right. Um, but we we kind of see unfortunately it ends on a cliff it on a rough note where I'm like, man, I wish we had more because it's it ends so like short.

SPEAKER_07 1:22:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 1:22:31

And uh Alita kind of beats the Decepticons, she tells the Autobots to grab the fallen, uh, their fallen brothers and to run.

SPEAKER_07 1:22:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 1:22:39

And we finally end, and it's Shockwave, and he says it's time to pay a visit to Alpha Tryon after saying that new battle lines are being drawn, new weapons are being introduced. Alpha Tryon is a um a transformer who has like a lot of knowledge.

SPEAKER_07 1:22:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 1:22:55

And um, so could be interesting. Um But my biggest problem my biggest two problems with this issue was the dialogue and the it just ended so quickly. Like I'm like, I what? I need more.

SPEAKER_07 1:23:09

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_08 1:23:09

Um still a beyond the pool list book for me. Okay. Um just this issue had a few problems that we haven't seen in the previous yeah, um, the previous issues.

SPEAKER_07 1:23:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 1:23:20

Um and and really that's the dialogue has not been bad in any other issue. This was just the only one that I've ever noticed. Like, oh, that's kind of bad. That's kind of yeah, that's that's that's a little campy. Right. Um, and then real quick, getting into the Ener John Universe special, free comic book day. Um, I'm not gonna get into the G.I. Joe or the um the mask special because we're introducing all these other new characters to this same universe.

SPEAKER_04 1:23:46

The mask, wait, like the it's called it's called Mask.

SPEAKER_08 1:23:49

It's another series from like the 80s. I was like Jim Carrey, like, no, no, no, no. Um, it's another series in the 80s where it's basically like um the best way I can describe it from what I've seen here, because I don't know much about them.

SPEAKER_07 1:24:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 1:24:01

Uh it's like a G.I. Joe kind of thing where they're I would say like operatives, but they've got fancy vehicles and they kind of do cool things. It was a it was not a bad story. I just don't know anything about it. So like when they are like, oh, his real name is Slyrax.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:17

Slyrax?

SPEAKER_08 1:24:18

Yeah, it's like this Hannibal Lecter-like character. I'm like, I don't know anything about Masks. Yeah. So like I I guess that's um But this this free comic day issue has four different stories of all the um the franchises set within this universe. We have Mask, Transformers, Void Rivals, and G.I. Joe. Of those four, only Void Rivals is a is a original creation.

SPEAKER_07 1:24:45

Huh.

SPEAKER_08 1:24:45

So I'm only going to talk about the Transformer issue. The Transformer story in this. And it's there's no dialogue in this story, and it's like four pages. You see some place. We don't know if it's Earth, we don't know if it's a distant planet.

SPEAKER_07 1:24:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 1:24:58

Uh we see an unnamed character, she kills a snake, and then she eats it.

unknown 1:25:03

Right.

SPEAKER_08 1:25:04

And then she goes home. And this is the most heartbreaking Oh yeah. My favorite Transform is Ironhide. And the last page of the Transformer story is a dead Ironhide trapped within this cavern, and this unknown woman lives with inside his chest.

SPEAKER_04 1:25:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 1:25:25

That was heartbreaking. That was hard to see.

SPEAKER_04 1:25:27

You actually brought your little Ironhide transformation. I did bring in my little Ironhide today because Which I broke there for a second. You did. It's like, no. I ripped him in half.

SPEAKER_08 1:25:36

I was like, died three times in front of me.

SPEAKER_04 1:25:39

I fixed it. I was trying to transform it, and the body and the legs broke apart. I was like, oh my gosh, I just broke it. Oh no. I'm sorry. Um but yeah. Yeah, what what do you think happened? I mean, I guess because there's not a lot to go off of.

SPEAKER_08 1:25:53

There's not a lot to go off of. Um, I don't know, and I don't know when we'll get here because I I something tells me this isn't Earth. But I I I don't know where this is. I don't know why Ironhide would be separated from the rest of the Autobots. Um was the last time you saw him? Um you saw his body in issue one. Oh.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:15

Okay.

SPEAKER_08 1:26:16

That's all I'll say. But he was um he was not like this.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:23

Interesting. Okay.

SPEAKER_08 1:26:24

So I don't I don't know what happened. And uh I hope he comes back. Yeah I have commented pretty much every day on Skybound's Instagram saying Robert Kirkman, please do something with Ironhide. Don't don't let him stay dead. You can't do this. Don't do this to me. Because I want to read Transformers with that classic G1 Ironhide. Pram! Pram.

SPEAKER_06 1:26:48

Um, so punk ass decepticon. You're feeling lucky, punk. Easy Ironhide. Just wanted to show my kids. The parents are annoying. Shall I exterminate them? The dog lubricated on my foot or whatever.

SPEAKER_08 1:27:10

So um I I I'm very curious where we're going there. I hope we see Ironhide soon. The next issue of Transformers is supposed to focus on Optimus' team on Earth.

SPEAKER_07 1:27:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 1:27:20

Uh so we'll see. But I'm I'm I've been enjoying this book. I want you to read it. Tell me your fair opinion.

SPEAKER_04 1:27:25

Getting there. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_08 1:27:26

No, it's okay. It's okay. Uh you might be reviewing it on the next episode without me. Who knows?

SPEAKER_04 1:27:30

Maybe because I uh I will say where all of my books are starting to slowly drop off. Like, I'm not, Noel's not on my poll anymore. It just ended. I'm not picking up Spider-Man anymore because Death Spiral's over. Like, I might not be getting Venom anymore. Yeah. So like literally, I'm gonna have one book on my poll every month, which means that I'm gonna have to read something.

SPEAKER_08 1:27:46

And you know, I'm telling you, Transform it's the two best books out there, in my personal opinion, is Absolute Batman and Transformers. Wow. Okay. My opinion.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 1:27:56

Um, and um especially When Daniel Warren Johnson was on the book. Yeah. That it's just mind-blowing. It's so good. It's character, character studies. Gosh, it's so good. So that's I the art is incredible. Oh man. I don't. This is. You just gotta read it.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:14

I'll I'll I'll check it out. I'll stop. I promise I will. I will. You got you got one more?

SPEAKER_08 1:28:17

I I'm not gonna review Absolute Superman yet now because um I I'm gonna wait. I'm gonna I'm gonna wait to review Absolute Superman. Are you sure?

SPEAKER_04 1:28:24

Yes. Are you sure?

SPEAKER_08 1:28:27

Pretty sure. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:28:28

Through trash bag in outer space today. Or as my girlfriend says, she'll go, pretty sure, trash bag, outer space. She can't remember the whole scene, so she just says to her.

SPEAKER_08 1:28:38

I will say real quick though, Absolute Superman is also great. Another great book out there. Um the reason I want to save it to review is just because um I think we're I think we're kind of in the same place as like Absolute Batman. We're we're kind of building a little bit. There's not been this issue was good. Absolute Batman did kind of make a cameo.

SPEAKER_07 1:28:56

Yeah. Oh, oh yeah, he did.

SPEAKER_08 1:28:57

You're right. I want to I want to save it until this art kind of expands a little bit more and then we can kind of review it. Okay. Okay. So now you have one you want to talk about.

SPEAKER_04 1:29:08

Okay, here we go. So um my two books are um currently we are at um I'm gonna do my Queen and Black or my Free Comic Book Day first. Um the main book that I pulled for free comic book day was The Amazing Spider-Man, Queen and Black, and The Infernal Hulk, all three in one because they're all three of the same office now. So of course they're all gonna be tied in together. I'm not reviewing the Spider-Man story, and I'm not reviewing the Hulk story, I'm just focusing on Queen and Black. Um so, real quick, um, I will I will say about the Spider-Man story. Um John Armita draws it, and looking through it really fast, it's kind of weird. Like that John Armita's art doesn't look as good as it used to. I don't know. It it just like I mean, like, you see? I mean it's very It's almost like cartoony. It's very cartoony, yeah. But like, I don't know. Anyway, um, but real quick getting into to uh free comic book day, we're starting to really lean into this whole deal with um leading, or I guess the only thing I'll say about Amazing Spider-Man is that we're leading up to issue a thousand. We're getting really close. And you know, of course everybody for issue a thousand, you know, they want Peter and MJ to get back together, and and you know, like this is issue a thousand.

SPEAKER_03 1:30:23

Amazing Spider-Man has been around for a thousand issues. That's a thousand months. Yeah. I don't even know how many years that is. Like that's a long time. A long time. Yeah, it's like it's at least two, you know?

SPEAKER_04 1:30:32

And like, so we're we're so we're getting we're getting we're getting close. We're on the countdown to a thousand. We're on issue nine hundred and ninety something. Okay. Right now, and the big lead up for issue a thousand is Spider-Man's distant cousin is learning that he's Spider-Man and he's gonna do something about it. Woo!

SPEAKER_08 1:30:56

It's right now I'm looking at you with the look of the the meme, Am I a joke to you?

SPEAKER_04 1:31:02

That's literally what it is, and that's what the end of this book teases is that um yeah, that he is the and that that that's the one thing that came out of Death Spiral is this guy figured out that he was related to Peter Parker, Spider-Man, because Spiral or a Torment was trying to kill him. And he had mentioned in in battle, like this is your cousin, and or whatever. And Spider-Man's like, yeah, this guy's crazy, don't listen to what he's saying. Bye, and then he leaves, and then now that's the big lead up to a thousand. So the Spider-Man team, of course, has got their crackpipes out and their laughing gas, and they're just having having a time. But we get into the main the main premise of this book, which is the Queen in Black, um, written by Al Ewing, artist by Ian Cabello Ian uh Coello Cabello? I think so. Coelho um with uh uh color artist Guru uh uh FX and um letter uh Clayton Cowell. So my third clean. Yeah, there's three. There's three of us. There's three of you. Oh well, my favorite's Clayton Craight. I'm kidding.

SPEAKER_08 1:32:04

I'm leaving the show.

SPEAKER_04 1:32:07

Um so, real quick, we get into the story of Hella is sitting on a spaceship. Um, on some throne, she is bonded with a symbiote, and um now I haven't read Null, so I don't know where she got the symbiote from. I haven't really been keeping up with that series. I'm gonna read it all. That was something I was gonna say for if I do an independent episode while you're away, was to review Null and finally get into that. Um, just so I can I can just let it out and no one can stop me. Um, but she is she is uh on the ship with some weird space pirate guy, and they're talking about the Legion of the Symbiote Alliance, and that um they're going to do a full assault on on Earth in the name of Hella the Queen in Black. And all these symbiote spaceships, not they're not symbiote spaceships, they're spaceships with symbiote tendrils around them, are going into Earth with uh separate ships being flown by, I guess, Cree soldiers bonded with symbiotes, and they're like soldiers. Um, and they're saying, like, this is war, we're going to like, and again, none of this has been covered. Like, this is this is the first time we're seeing this, might I add.

SPEAKER_07 1:33:17

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:33:18

So all these uh big ships are coming in, they're crashing down, one they're crashing in in Egypt on the pyramids, and then they're crashing in Italy and into the leaning tower Pisa, and then they're crashing in Japan, and these symbiotes are coming out, and they're like, you know, like uh they're like, we're we're here to to kill everything, and and you know, every symbiote has a every symbiote that's landing in a different uh country has different objectives, and some land in New York, and uh uh they the the symbiote comes out of the pod and it says with my favorite dialogue on the planet, all earthers get off the streets now, and then uh they're just saying, like, this sector is now forward base K117 for the Symbiote Alliance. You will evacuate or we will annihilate. This is your only warning, blah blah blah, or die. And there's some old lady who like trips and falls, and the symbiote soldier walks up with a gun. And and it and and this is such an awful, this is this is awful dialogue, Clayton. Like I sent you a I sent you a picture of this, and I was like, this is so bad. Um then rejoice, uh, feeble earther, because you now have an opportunity to serve your fragile species. As an example, the crime is of dis the crime is disobedience, the sentence is death. And he starts to shoot her, and then uh a web hits the gun, and the and he says, ready, aim, and then the the web hits the gun and he says, What? and it explodes in his face. But he does it doesn't before it explodes, he goes, No, something's jammed my plaz rifle. It's overheating. Ah, and then it explodes. Give me that same look again.

SPEAKER_08 1:34:59

I'm so annoyed. I I'm not even I get can we test out the oven, the comic in the oven thing that we were talking about?

SPEAKER_04 1:35:06

I mean, yeah, I mean, this is a it's free, it's free. I ain't paying money for this issue. So, and even if I did, it'd be worth it. You know, I'd pay more money to do it. Um, and another soldier comes up and says, What in Queen's name? Someone fried it from the rooftops. It it looked like webbing, and then you hear uh right the first time Chuckles and Spider Man, Venom, Agent Venom, Black Cat, Tarantula, and some other guy are jumping from the rooftops, and Spider-Man says, We've got uh and we've got your symbiote alliance right here. Go, spider friends. And that's the end of the the queen, the Queen of Black tie-in issue.

SPEAKER_08 1:35:45

What? What is this? What that's prime example of what we're talking about. Yeah, with how bad Marvel has gotten. And it's yeah. I would understand like like the Transformers that we were talking about, right? It's a one-off. By accident, you know, maybe you were just rushed and you had to meet the time the deadline. So you kind of rushed through the dialogue. Yeah, that's maybe one thing. But you have constantly raised the issue that the dialogue in Venom is so bad. It's awful. But and and that proves your point right there, but it also shows the number one faux paw in comics. Show, don't tell.

SPEAKER_03 1:36:23

Exactly. Yeah, that's the that's the number one writing rule of everything. That's that's filmmaking writing rules.

SPEAKER_04 1:36:29

Like it's it's just show, don't tell. Yeah. And um Torrin Gunbeck, I think that's how you pronounce her last name. She's she was a writer for Carnage for a while, and she kind of hopped in on Venom. She was awful about it. Really? She said everything. Like, like any time, like it in like when like there was one issue, I think, where Doctor Strange was like curious, and he's like, and she is like, Doctor Strange thinks in curiosity. And it's like, I can see that. Like it's clear that he's thinking. I'm I'm I'm I have a brain and it works. I can tell when someone's thinking, when they put their hand on their chin and they're like, hmm, I can tell that they're thinking, right? Like not stupid.

SPEAKER_03 1:37:03

Well, that's the the they're they're treating the reader like we're stupid. Yeah. It's it's awful. And it it's like it, it's what is this dialogue? And what does this have to do with symbiotes? Why are we bringing symbiote cree onto the planet?

SPEAKER_04 1:37:17

And and and and I'll say the art's great. I think the art looks really good, but what is even happening?

SPEAKER_08 1:37:22

Well, Iban Coyello did the art for um the the um the War of the Realms tie in for Donnie Cate's Venom.

SPEAKER_03 1:37:29

Oh. So Well, I mean it's good art. Yeah, but it's just what what it what what's the point of the story? Why are we why are what like I don't I don't understand the point of this book? And then and again, we have not seen any Queen in Black anything leading up to this.

SPEAKER_04 1:37:45

It just it just happens. It's just there you go. Yeah, and and then you've got the spider people jumping in and go spider friends! Like, what is this? Freaking what what are we doing? Like, if I was a kindergarten reading re kindergartner reading this, I'd be like, what is this garbage? Yeah, this is awful. And I like I'm this isn't that when I read this, I was just like, okay, like this sucks, but whatever. I guess like this is venom right now. Yeah, and um, I hope, I dude, I really hope that after Queen of Black's over, Al's done. I I'm praying that he gets off of this book by the end of this. And if he's not, I'm like I said, I'm done. So so that was the tie-in. That was the uh the free comic book day tie-in, which just it it's just like what like who is okaying this stuff? Like, who is okaying this garbage? This is this is crap.

SPEAKER_08 1:38:31

You know, there's there's that saying in comics, um, every comic is somebody's first comic, right? People the the writers will say that every so often, so they they write in a way to hook somebody who has never read comics before and who's considering getting in.

SPEAKER_04 1:38:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 1:38:49

Yeah. But you do you you still write the story for the person who is reading comics.

SPEAKER_04 1:38:53

Right. Yeah. It's gotta, it's gotta be for both because the people who read comics are gonna pick it up too. Yeah. I I don't I don't know. And I'm just you know, that it's just venom and everything venom related has literally like it. This feels like someone took like it's it feels like you built like a Minecraft server, and you built this really amazing Minecraft server, and you have all these great buildings, and then you left, and you're like, hey, this new kid's gonna come and play on it, and then you come back and it's all just destroyed and messed up. Because it's it's like unfixable, right? Like, I don't know how this gets fixed, or I don't know how like like I just I don't know what we're gonna get out of this, and it it kind of makes me it bothers me a little bit that a lot of Venom fans have just gone silent through all of this. Yeah, you know, like I I know on Instagram some people are like, oh, like you know, I made a comment on on someone's Instagram post uh this or this morning or yesterday, um, because in the next issue of Venom, it shows Dylan being super upset because they they start the issue with Paul's funeral. Um, and this is the issue with Mary Jane and Venom on Peter on the cover, and but the the issue starts with Paul's funeral and Dylan's there and he starts being like I I just uh and he starts crying and doing his stupid Dylan I hate everybody thing and running away because that's all Dylan's character has been watered down to. And it's like I could I commented, I was like, Dylan has hated Paul this entire time. Yeah, every page that they interact, he has treated Paul like crap. Yeah, and now that Paul is gone, I understand that like, yeah, Paul's gone and and that kind of sucks. Right. But Dylan's acting like he cared about him so much, and it's like you literally didn't. Right. Like, that's an insult to people who to if if Paul did have people who liked him, that would be an insult to people who did, you know. Like if I if I had like if okay, let's say I had one of my friends who was just always treating you like garbage, right? Which I wouldn't let that happen, but let's just say I did. And you had died or something, and then they were like, I just I could have done more.

SPEAKER_03 1:40:49

I'd be like, you didn't, you're a piece of garbage. Yeah, you literally hated this, you hated this person, and now that he's dead, you want to pretend like you cared? Right.

SPEAKER_04 1:40:57

No, yeah, no, like I I won't allow that. And that that's so that's what this that's what Dylan's character has become. That's that's the tease of the next issue. Um, but we move from from from this free comic book day to the final piece of um uh Death Spiral Spider-Man Death Spiral, which is the body count issue and the origin of torment. Who I'm just gonna say it, this character's nothing. This is this this is a useless, like I feel so stabbed in the back for buying this and and spending my time and my money reading this garbage. I could have read Transformers and and probably enjoyed it more than this, but I gave this book a chance because I wanted to read it, and the book opens with with Venom throwing Spiral off of the building, and he's having some comments about how like um, you know, like uh at the end of everything, the only thing I'm thinking about is family. And then we we see into his past as a kid, and well, actually, it's weird. He he says that, and we we we go back to a time where someone else dies and then and then Torment appears in this other guy's apartment, and then he kind of says the same thing. He's like, Let me give you my backstory. It's like so wait, you're about to die, and you're thinking about a time that you told someone your backstory instead of just thinking about your backstory. Like this whole little thing is just kind of useless. Like, just tell us your backstory. Yeah, you're thinking about your past before you die. Let's not think about you telling someone else, like what what right you're adding an extra step, just just skip it. Just who cares?

SPEAKER_08 1:42:22

Just go straight to the story.

SPEAKER_04 1:42:24

And we get to um, you know, we get to his past where um, you know, he has a family that they all communicate and they love each other, and he has a girlfriend.

SPEAKER_02 1:42:32

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:42:33

Well, he takes his girlfriend home one day, and his mom c or her mom comes out and she's like, um, she's like, stop canoodling with that boy. Give it a give it away, uh, give it away for free, and he'll be gone before uh the sheets get cold. Now get in here and in the bat and get in here and clean the bathroom. It's not gonna clean itself and torment as a kid, um, which what his what's his name? His name is um, hang on, it's uh uh uh hang on. Wait, hang on.

SPEAKER_08 1:43:06

Please pause for the brief intermission.

SPEAKER_04 1:43:09

His name's Graham. Okay. Okay, his name is Graham. Sorry, I had to look through the book to figure out what his name was because you know, he's not a memorable character. Right, right. Excuse me for not remembering. And um she she you know, she goes, she goes into her house and she cleans the bathroom and goes to bed. Well, all of a sudden there's smoke coming into her room and the house is on fire, and someone opens her window and says, Come on, come on, get out, get out. And she's like, Graham, what are you doing here? And she's like, um, he's like, um uh we have to move, you know. Uh she's like, My my family, my parents, my my brother, we have to get them, we have to save them. And he's like, It's all right, you don't have to worry about them anymore. They're they're gone. They're already gone. And and she's she's like, gone, what do you what do you mean? What are you saying? Like you what?

SPEAKER_03 1:43:56

And he's like, You were under so much pressure, I could, I could see it. The the spiral between you and your family for the most for uh for most people, it's just a connection, but yours was tight around your neck, it was choking you. But it's gone now, you're free. Uh I I I got you free.

SPEAKER_04 1:44:12

And he's and she's like, What? And you know, and and uh and he's she's like, what are you saying? And he's like, You really didn't see what I did for you? Like, you know, your family was holding your back, you holding you back, like they were such a a tight chain around your neck, and and you know, but like uh like you know, ever everything's okay. And you don't miss them, do you? Like, you know, I know it's heartbreaking, but I thought this would be this would this would be a start for you and me and the world, you know? And she says, she says, if you hate families so much, why don't you kill yours instead of mine? And he goes, Well, I wasn't gonna do that, Vora. I love my family. And she smacks him in the face, and and you know, uh, she goes into the house to try to save her mom, and I guess that's it. And he walks away. Okay. So we go back to him telling the the guy in the apartment his story, you know, the thing that he's actually remembering, and his it's a memory and then a memory or whatever. And he's telling this guy, you know, like uh, you know, that that's just part of it is is the spirals, and you know, like I just I it you know, they're they're uh the connection, like, you know, we need to break off the families to deconnect to deconnect them from their family so they're free, so people are free. Now, if you recall this book, the whole point of this character that has been pushed onto the from the rest of these issues is that when he kills somebody, he now is tasked with killing their entire bloodline right to follow the spirals of their of their family tree.

SPEAKER_07 1:45:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:45:40

That's just not a thing anymore. That just doesn't exist in this. And he actually he actually mentions that, like, um uh he's like, I've I've killed 162 people trying to find a person who will take the gift I'm giving them and use it to fly free, you know? Like uh and and then he's talking to this guy and he's like, You got really close, but he tried to attack him and he killed him. But the whole I guess the whole point of Torment's character is to kill the family tree so the last person can just be free of that family burden. So, first of all, what kind of superpower is it for someone to see the spirals of your family tree and how tight it is around your neck? That is so stupid.

SPEAKER_03 1:46:21

That's such a dumb power. What is that's so useless.

SPEAKER_04 1:46:24

Yeah. That's so useless.

SPEAKER_08 1:46:25

What is the point of that? Hi, my name is uh Skin, and uh my superpower is that I have skin.

SPEAKER_03 1:46:33

Yeah, literally. That's basically it. That's so stupid.

SPEAKER_08 1:46:36

And and and and and then that goes against the whole thing with um Hey Torment, I have that same power, but my ability is that I can go on Instagram and see people's families.

SPEAKER_04 1:46:48

Well, and then like and then and then what? Like he you know, we had that thing in the one issue where when he bonded with Carnage, Carnage went through the hospital killing all these people, and and Torment was being overwhelmed with all these new spirals that were being created. Right. Because he's like, this is overwhelming me, it's too much. But here it doesn't even it's like so it's not a like you don't have to do it, you just choose to because you're helping them. So what is your goal? Like you're a serial killer, sure, but like what and the spiral, what's the whole point of the spiral imagery? I thought it was gonna be a tie to null or like you know, the symbiotes, because if you don't know from Donnie Kate's run, the symbiote's symbol is a spiral, right? Right. That's all that was that was so like serenaded in that run that the symbiotes are spir they have spirals on their face, and it's the spiral of whatever.

SPEAKER_07 1:47:40

Right.

SPEAKER_04 1:47:41

And this is just the spiral of a family, like it's just something he sees, and it just I guess relates to Venom because it looks the same. What? That's stupid.

SPEAKER_07 1:47:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:47:50

Um, so then we get to finally see the first time that uh Carnage texts him and he's like, Hey, like I've got these things, and and and he sees the spirals that connect all three of Spider-Man, Mary Jane, and Eddie Brock together, and and um, and then that's it. You just see him fall to his death and die. And then at the end of the book, they're his family is at his funeral and they're talking about how it's such a disappointment that he got into be uh he became a murderer and a killer, and you see his little sister, who uh they say like um, you know, like uh like her her grandmother goes to to her sorry Torment's little sister's grandm like tor Torment little sister gets to talk to her his grandmother, yeah. And she's saying, like, you have to redeem the family, Susan. Uh you have no choice. And then her brother's like, Don't let her talk to you like that. Like she's just old. And then she's like, but you guys don't see it, and she sees the spirals. So I guess she's gonna be the next torment.

SPEAKER_03 1:48:48

What? This book is nothing. It's nothing.

SPEAKER_04 1:48:50

This is this is you like what like yeah, the the only spiral, yeah. I'm getting dizzy from all these spirals because I'm going nowhere. I'm following the spirals of these books that they're trying to get me to read, and I'm just getting to the end of being like, oh, this was worthless. This event was useless. This event was nothing.

SPEAKER_08 1:49:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:49:05

I literally just threw the book on the table. This event sucks.

SPEAKER_08 1:49:07

It doesn't it it meaningless, pointless, useless. How do you get the suit? How did he like none of that is ever explained?

SPEAKER_04 1:49:14

Nope, they don't talk about the suit, they don't talk about what what the point of it, like how do you get the power nope, he just was born with it, I guess.

SPEAKER_08 1:49:22

Wow.

SPEAKER_04 1:49:22

Yeah. Useless event, useless garbage.

SPEAKER_08 1:49:25

Nothing. I like how you when we were talking about how you you didn't tell me anything about this issue, you were just telling me uh that it sucked, and uh you said, I'm gonna give it to you to to wipe your baby's butt.

SPEAKER_04 1:49:38

I said, you know what? If you need diapers, Clayton, I have plenty of venom issues that you can borrow. Um free. You can just take them. I don't care. They work perfectly. Uh you know, like use them as diapers, use them as baby wipes, I don't care. That's what that they're worth, you know, they're worthless. It sucks. You know, and this goes into that thing with Spider Man that it's like, what are we doing? Like It's nothing.

SPEAKER_08 1:50:01

Even while you were flipping this is another problem that Marvel had. Even while you were flipping through that, and I'm watching you do so, every other page was an ad.

SPEAKER_04 1:50:07

Yep.

SPEAKER_08 1:50:08

Every other page was another ad. And that's another problem that Marvel has.

SPEAKER_04 1:50:12

Also, I I noticed something like side tangent on that. Yeah. When I was I I was rereading the uh Toxin miniseries that came out back in like 2000 and whenever, like 2008 or whatever. Very old series. I was rereading it. Um it had 23 ads in it. Every page, there was two pages that were not ads. Really? Yes, there was two, and that's an old book. It's not new. Yeah. Every page had an ad on it except for like two pages. There was two pages that was like, there's there's comic and there's comic, but every other page had an ad on it. And I was like, huh. I guess they've been doing this forever. Wow. Yeah. So um I guess I don't know. I guess I just got good at ignoring it. But I like but after you had mentioned that on the one of the last episodes we did, and I was reading that, I was like, dang, it's every freaking page is an ad. I'll pull it up, I'll show it to you when we're done recording. But yeah, this book is useless. And it it's that's another reason when I read that, I was just like, okay, well, I guess like again, I'm not missing anything right now. Like I'm paying money. Well, this issue was five dollars five dollars, um, you know, and then an extra dollar fifty for the bag and board. So I'm spending like six fifty on this issue that's just nothing. And then we're going into Queen and Black, and that's just gonna be the same thing. So I like that's you know, I know I said that I wasn't gonna do Venom, but I'm I might just not even I might just hop off of it now, to be honest.

SPEAKER_08 1:51:32

Honestly, this is probably a better time. That way it saves you those extra what Queen and Black is gonna be five issues. That's gonna save you what $25?

SPEAKER_04 1:51:41

Yeah. $25. And then, you know, um, I've already, I don't know, I'm on the pull list already for it. Uh but this book is off for sure. Yeah. And again, I'm still on it, which I don't know if that is redundant, but you know, like I I'm you know, I'm I'm this is off. Do not buy this book. I I'm buying it so you don't have to. Um, you know.

SPEAKER_08 1:52:00

So let so let me ask you this. Why are you going to wait until Queen in Black is over?

SPEAKER_04 1:52:05

I I just want to see, I just want you know it's one of those things where it's like I have been on this book since I started. I I you know, okay. So it's not FOMO. I took I took a picture of something. Let me show you. I have been pulling Venom, okay. Like when I was little, I didn't buy the singles, right? Like I just I bought the trays, you know, and I when Agent Venom was a thing, I bought the trades for it. Right. The first Venom issue, single issue that I bought, okay, okay, was Venom Space Night. It was right during the it was the end of the Space Night run, right when Civil War II was going on.

SPEAKER_08 1:52:40

Okay, so 2016?

SPEAKER_04 1:52:42

Yes, that book came out August 24th, 2016. Okay. We're currently in the year 2026, okay. But this August, I will have been pulling this book every month for 10 years. Yeah. Nine years is what I've been on this book. It is unfathomable to to think like I'm gonna be taking this off of my pool list. I've been on it for nine years. Yeah, it's like a marriage almost. Yeah, it's it's it's a commitment. And you're committed to this character and every issue, I've read every issue every month for ten years, and I've enjoyed it. Except for these last few years.

SPEAKER_03 1:53:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:53:20

And it's just like I'm just I guess I'm just trying to see it to the end.

SPEAKER_08 1:53:24

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:53:24

You know what I mean? Like I'm just like, I'm hoping Queen in the Black, and then when that's over, they'll announce a new writer, and I can just say, hey, I stuck through it. It was awful, I hated it, but I made it through. And I don't know if that's something to brag about. And please comment and tell me if I'm stupid. But that's just honestly, I'm just I'm just like, I want to see it to the end. I want to see it through because I'm I I'm I'm so passionate about Venom as a character, and he's always been my favorite character. To just like, I want to be there through the bad, you know what I mean? Right. But this is it's just it's it's the bad is so bad that it's just like there's no good out of this. Right. You know, there's gotta be uh it like there there has to be some good to come out of this, and there's not. No. So, you know, I stuck through all the way uh through the first alleying run, which I didn't hate, but I it towards the end I started to hate it really bad, and then they announced the new number one, and I was like, okay, yes, like we're getting a new book, and then it just became crappy again, and I'm hoping that we get it. If we don't, then I'm out, I have to be out. I can't do this to myself anymore. Because it's like, you know, like, and I'm hoping that maybe Eddie becomes Venom by the end of this, and maybe we get OG Venom back or whatever, but probably not. Probably not.

SPEAKER_08 1:54:36

You know, I have made some people mad on Instagram by talking about Ben 10, but I have I've argued why you know why comics matter now. Yeah, you have to justify not only the price, but the time and the commitment, and you you have to justify comics' existence.

SPEAKER_07 1:54:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 1:54:57

You know, in today's day and age where everything is so expensive, gas is so expensive, groceries are so expensive, right? The cost of living is expensive. To go out and be because nobody buys just one comic unless they've dropped everything else.

SPEAKER_07 1:55:10

Right.

SPEAKER_08 1:55:11

Nobody's doing that. Everybody goes in and they buy at least two.

SPEAKER_07 1:55:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 1:55:14

So you're you have to now justify ten dollars out of your monthly budget when you that could be spent towards essentials, yeah. You have to justify its existence. And absolute Batman, it's entertaining, it's it's escapism, it's there's a mystery, I need to know how it ends. Venom, no, there there is no reason it needs to exist. That that is money, unfortunately, that you have wasted on a crappy story.

SPEAKER_04 1:55:39

Yeah, no, it is for sure. And I don't know, maybe maybe it's just maybe it is FOMO. Maybe it's genuinely just like I I don't want to miss out some big amazing moment.

SPEAKER_08 1:55:50

I'm I it's like I'm hearing Paul has just admitted.

SPEAKER_04 1:55:53

No, Gabriella, no. But no, no, I just maybe, maybe it is, maybe it's just you know, because there's been times where it's like I'm like where I almost got rid of something, but I'm so glad I didn't. Right. You know, like it ended up paying off, and there was a big, there's a big surprise twist that I was like, oh good, this paid off. Yes, you know, like, oh, I'm so glad I didn't drop that book. But this has been just agony for a for for however long Alguing has been on it, like about halfway through his run um has just been agony, or his previous run. Right, just up until now has just been just like, please let it end. Like, please let it end, please let it end. And it's not. And I'm I'm getting to the point now where because you know I've stuck, that's why I've stuck out because I'm like, it's got it's gotta end soon. Yeah, it's gotta be done soon. You know, it's gotta be, it's gotta be. And now we're just hitting this point of like, I don't know if it is. I don't know if this is gonna end. It might not end. It it like genuinely he might write this for five more years, and if he does, I can't do this. You can't keep it. But I'm afraid here's what I'm afraid of too.

SPEAKER_03 1:56:53

I'm afraid of hopping off of the book and then Eddie's back, Eddie's venom again, or like, oh my gosh, this venom issue.

SPEAKER_04 1:57:00

Noel just killed Eddie Brock. Oh, like, and I'm just like, I missed it. I missed the I I I jumped out, I jumped, I I I abandoned ship too soon, and I missed it.

SPEAKER_08 1:57:11

But even if that happened, you know it's not going to be a earnable moment.

SPEAKER_04 1:57:15

Right.

SPEAKER_08 1:57:15

It's not even if Noel was to kill Eddie, they have proven time and time again with what they have done that they cannot write an emotionally heavy invested story, especially what you were talking about with Dylan. Oh, well, Paul was my favorite person in the whole world. Well, no, you never you never built that up. So you know if any of that was to happen under Al Ewing's uh writing, it's it's not going to matter. You're just going to be mad that it happened because there was no build-up.

SPEAKER_09 1:57:43

Right.

SPEAKER_08 1:57:43

And I guarantee you, if this book was to Al Ewing's run was to end with Eddie becoming the uh becoming Venom again, it's just going to be like the symbiote is like, oh, hi Eddie, and just crawls off of Mary Jane and crawls onto Eddie, and then Eddie like, okay, see ya. Bye. And that's how it'll happen.

SPEAKER_04 1:58:01

Yeah. It'll be very, yeah, they'll be like, there will be some big c I I bet there will be some cosmic thing from Hella coming to Earth being like, I can stop, I can stop you from dying, MJ. Like, cause it because right now if if they if they separate, then MJ dies or whatever because whatever. Um, because we need a plot device to keep them bonded. Yeah. And Hella is gonna be like, I can save you. I can keep you both from dying. So like or like I can save you, but I can't save the symbiote or something stupid. And then like I don't know. I will say that I if if if the book just stopped coming out, I would be fine with that. Yeah. Which sucks. That sucks to say. But I don't know. It's just it's the fact that I've been on it for 10 years and I've I've been committed for 10 years. I've read it every month for 10 years. I mean, that was like some of the most like I hopped on just at the best time I could have hopped on my single issues because you know, like it was what maybe like it was two years before uh Donnie started writing, and that was just like the most amazing thing I've ever been through, right? Like I'm getting the same feeling from Absolute Batman, but ten times more because it was Venom. Right. I don't know. So I'm gonna stick through it for Queen of Black. And if it's if it's you know, I mean heck, even I might just drop it halfway through if it's just that bad. But I'm I'm gonna stick it and hopefully, hopefully, Al will hop off. And if Al Ewing hops off, um I'll hop back on, see what it's about, and go from there. Okay. So I'm I'm making the this decision right now. It is it's foretold. There it is.

SPEAKER_03 1:59:33

Set in stone. God strike me down if I lie.

SPEAKER_08 1:59:36

Whoa, whoa, whoa, hold on, hold on.

SPEAKER_03 1:59:39

You're gonna mess up the audio, Pa.

SPEAKER_08 1:59:42

The lightning. We got one more one last thing to talk about real quick this week. Uh, and that was some big something big happened.

SPEAKER_04 1:59:51

This is a big, yeah.

SPEAKER_08 1:59:52

Um there is a website that many people used um called Read Comics Online. This was piracy. Yep. This was illegal. Um many people use this. Um, and then there were some people who used it just to capture the panels from a book. Right. Let's say Absolute Batman came out and you want to share this specific panel that you read, you want to share that with somebody. But you other than taking a a a bad quality photo of your your book. Yeah, yeah, you would just find the the scan and you just send it. Right. You know, well, that got shut down this week. Yes, it did. Um, it got deleted. Uh, you can't access that page anymore, nothing.

SPEAKER_07 2:00:33

Nope.

SPEAKER_08 2:00:33

And uh the reason we want to talk about this, well why I kind of want to talk about this is um it it could be a good thing. I know a lot of people are upset um for a variety of reasons, and I understand that, but I think it could be a good thing if Marvel and DC and Image and all the other publishers learn from it.

SPEAKER_07 2:00:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 2:00:53

Because the reason why this website, in my opinion, was so um popular, why so many people went to it was because, well, yeah, it was free, but they wanted to read comics, but maybe can't go to a comic book store locally. Uh they maybe live in a country where there's you just can't get comics.

SPEAKER_04 2:01:13

Maybe can't find the issue.

SPEAKER_08 2:01:14

Can't find the issue. It could be a variety of reasons. So what I would love to see is Marvel, everybody learn from this and have a much more freely accessible. I'm not asking you don't have to make it free, but that would be nice. Um, and there are other ways you can get comics. So there is Marvel Unlimited and DC Infinite, but you have to pay for those sixty dollars or more a month or a year. That's a lot of money.

SPEAKER_07 2:01:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 2:01:38

That's a lot of money. You have um, you know, you can buy comics on Amazon, but you have to pay for them. They're you have their cover price.

SPEAKER_07 2:01:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 2:01:46

Uh and then you have Hoopla and Libby, and these are like library services, all you need is a library card. But here's the downside with that. Not everybody has a library near them that they can get a card from. And uh Hoopla, you can only download four books a month. So if you're trying to read several titles, you can't. You can only read four a month. Uh Libby has the same problem, but let's say you and I were trying to read Absolute Batman at the same time. If you rented Absolute Batman off of their website, I couldn't read it until you were done with it. Huh. It's weird. Um That's weird.

SPEAKER_04 2:02:20

Is it digital? Yeah. That doesn't make sense at all.

SPEAKER_08 2:02:23

That's how it works. Huh. Um so it's strange. There's like a waiting line. Yeah. And those are Hoopla and Libby are free options, and all you have to do is get a library card. But you know, there are there's catches. Hoopla is up to date, so I could read Transformers 32 on there, but if I was trying to read four other books that I'm three other books I'm pulling, that's it. I can't read anymore for the month.

SPEAKER_07 2:02:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 2:02:51

So what I hope companies learn from this is that there needs to be a platform where comics can be more freely accessible to people around the world. This is uh something that the creator of Steam, where you can buy games, um, this is something he recently said in an interview. They asked him, is piracy a problem for Steam? And he said, No. He said, it's not even in our top ten problems. He said, Because if you have a piracy problem, you have a platform problem. And um and I think Marvel and DC DC's not so bad, um, because I think DC's just killing it right now. But yeah. Uh and DC and the good thing about DC Infinite is you don't you only have to wait a month. Right. So you're only a month behind. Uh Marvel, you have to wait three. Oh gosh. Yeah. So you really have to wait a long time.

SPEAKER_07 2:03:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 2:03:41

And and then again, that's just Marvel and DC.

SPEAKER_07 2:03:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 2:03:44

So if you want to venture out and read something else, you can't. So I don't know. That's my thoughts. What are your thoughts?

SPEAKER_04 2:03:51

Uh I mean, I so here so I I also used Read Comics Online, I will say. Now I never um I I've always been on a pool list, I've always bought comics from a comic book store, um, or I bought the trades. Right. I never I never read books on there just because I didn't want to buy it. Right. I I will fully admit that I always like I I'm a physical collector. I don't like digital. Now, for example, one of the times I used it was I remember when I was in uh high school, I was reading the entire Ultimate Spider-Man run from issue one all the way to the death. Right. And there were some issues there towards like closest, closer to the end that I didn't have.

SPEAKER_02 2:04:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:04:26

And you know, you couldn't find the trades, you can't find the singles, like they're hard to find. And I just was like, I just want to read through it. So I I would go on read comics and read through those issues, you know. But I I bought all of the trades for, you know, I grew up collecting the trades of that of that book, and you know, and then I have the final the death issue. So, like, you know, like I I would I only read those because I was like, I'm in the process of reading it and I'm dying to know where the story goes, and I I'm just gonna read it on here. But I don't think that makes me a pirate at all, you know. Like I like here's my here's my deal, right? And again, this is you know, I I do movies and I you know I I write and like I don't always agree with piracy. Like the part that I don't agree with is if you are pirating movies or you're pirating comics because you don't want to pay money to those creators and you don't want to pay for that, that's wrong. That's don't do that. No, you know, now if you like if you let's say you have um, you know, like absolute Batman, right? Right. Like let's say I had or I guess with Ultimate Spider-Man, right? Like I I didn't have those issues. I went on there and I read them because I I I had no way to get them.

SPEAKER_02 2:05:30

Right.

SPEAKER_04 2:05:30

You know, I had no there was no easy way to get them that quick.

SPEAKER_08 2:05:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:05:33

So I was just like, I'll just read them on here.

SPEAKER_08 2:05:35

And you're a high school kid, you don't have money to spend on sixty dollars a year.

SPEAKER_04 2:05:39

No, and and yeah, I I didn't have that kind of money. But also when you're dealing with new books, sometimes maybe you want to read the book, maybe, hey, or like for example, right? I go out of town to work a lot. I want to read Absolute Batman before it before like if I'm up there on Wednesday and I'm not coming back until Thursday, right? If I'm out of town till Thursday, right, I want to read it before I go on social media and see it posted everywhere because everybody posts it. So like I'll go on there and read it just so I can read it. But then I still, when I go back home, I go to the store and I buy my issue. Right. I still buy my issues, right? Yeah. So like, you know, I'm still always dedicating my money towards the art. I'm not gonna be like, hey, I don't really want this issue. Now, if it's a if I read the issue online, I'm like, man, this sucked. I didn't like it. Then I then I, you know, like Death Spiral. I remember I I I picked up a physical and I read it, and then I was just like, I kind of wish I didn't buy this because I just it's not good, you know. Right. But you know, I always try to support my my creators because they're they're working really hard. Scott Snyder's working really hard, Dragada's working really hard. All these people who, you know, Patrick Gleason and Kyle Holtz and all those people that that that follow our Instagram page, they work really hard. Yeah. And I always try to, you know.

SPEAKER_08 2:06:43

And they don't get paid very to be like, well, I don't want to spend three dollars on your on your work, that's selfish, yeah, on on your part.

SPEAKER_04 2:06:52

Or like but uh uh but the main reason that I did it was the same reason you did, is because there's times where hey I that panel's so sick. Yeah, I want it I want a clear visual on my phone of that panel. Yeah. So I'll go on there and I'll find the book and I'll download the panel.

SPEAKER_07 2:07:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:07:06

Or like, you know, if I want to make an edit, like a little edit of a character, I'll go and pull those panels and make an edit of it. Right. But you know, that's the only reason, right? That's the only reason you should do that. Yeah, I don't I don't go on there to read something unless I just it's old and I don't have it, you know. Um because it's like, you know, what if you want to what if some kid wants to read Amazing Fantasy 15? Right. That's not a book you can just get. Right. Even the reprints are eighty dollars. Yeah, you know, so like at least you have a place that you can go and read it, yeah, you know, since it's so hard to get a hold of and it's so expensive. But you know, that that's my only thing. It it sucks that it got shut down. I will say I was starting to not like it towards the end because it was it was so flooded with with uh porn pornographic ads. Right. And um, like I would be on it and like I would have nude pictures pop up while I was on the on the site looking at comics. Right. And like that sucks. I actually remember when I was reading it in school, I would have some pop up in school, and I'm like, I hope nobody sees this. Like that's sitting behind me and thinks I'm some weirdo. You know, I'm just trying to read Ultimate Spider-Man. The good one, the good one, not the bad one. Um that wasn't out yet. That was uh that was a sunny world, you know, a nice world. Um you know, um, but yeah, that's all I think about it. You know, I you know, uh respect the creators, and it's okay to read stuff online. I think that's okay, and I think that's a it's a it's a tool for people. Yeah, don't use it as a crutch. Yeah, you know, make sure you still go to your local comic stores, buy buy your buy your books, support your stores, support those because NFT's died, man. Like that, so it's very clear because I know Marvel really tried to they started to try to push like online comics, and that didn't work very well, right? So um physical's always gonna be where it's at for me. Yeah, so same here, you know.

SPEAKER_08 2:08:43

Yeah, I no, I don't for legal reasons and for personal reasons, like we don't support this at all. Um, we we do not encourage you to go look at this or anything. Uh and again, as we said, we I hope Marvel and DC learn from this and say that was bad. That was a problem. But if we made things more accessible, then this wouldn't have been a problem in the first place. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:09:18

But I don't think it was damaging sales, was it?

SPEAKER_08 2:09:22

I think I think it probably did. Uh I I really do because I think I think maybe we are different because you and I were not going on there to um pirate books. No, no, we were going on there, yeah. Yeah. So I but I do think there were people um who went on there and and did. They would re read full runs. They would read uh they they'd do it, and then he would post panels to put on Instagram to make money, or they do this or that. And then that that is a problem.

SPEAKER_04 2:09:54

Yeah, that's for sure a problem.

SPEAKER_08 2:09:55

No, and I think that takes money out of pockets. It's the same thing for you, right? Your movie. If you made a movie, people pirated it, and that lost money that could have been in your pocket uh to support your family, you'd be upset too. Yeah, you know, and so um creators work hard.

SPEAKER_04 2:10:14

Like it I know it's it's it's not considered like a blue-collar job for sure. You know, you're not outside slinging mud and poop. Yeah, but you know, you're you're having to you're having to make content that people like and you're you're hoping, you know. I'm sure Scott Snyder has had many moments at his writing desk being like, I hope people like this. Right. You know, a lot of writers probably have that thing. And when you know, people are just stealing it and they're not actually like, you know, like people are people love it, but I'm not getting any profit. Like they love my book, but they're not actually paying me for my hard work, which sucks. That's that's discouraging. Yeah, you know. I think I think if um I would love it, honestly. This for me personally, I would love it if they if there was some site that you could get on that had pictures only with no comic, with no text bubbles. Or at least like the text bubbles being whited out, so the story's not there. Oh yeah. I'd be all for that. I'd support that. When we we make our social posts, and I again I just sometimes I just like having I like having the comic panels to have for my phone wallpaper sometimes, you know. Like I just they're cool, they're cool, it's art, it's great art. Um, but you know, you can't just scan your book on the table and it it doesn't have the same effect, you know what I mean? So yeah, um that was that was my goal. That was my only appreciation for the site. Um, but people who didn't support the books and didn't buy the books, come on, you know, like support these people. They're they're working really hard.

SPEAKER_08 2:11:30

Yeah. So a good thing that it got shot down. Um I hope there's a lesson to be learned. Um it is it will be interesting to see how the comic community navigates this in terms of finding panels like we do, yeah. Um for your posts, for your whatever. Yeah. Um, your backgrounds or whatever. So uh well, anything else you want to add?

SPEAKER_02 2:11:55

That's it for this week.

SPEAKER_08 2:11:56

In case we don't get sent to jail for by the FBI for clocking clutching. Never been in the red.

SPEAKER_03 2:12:01

I bought them all still. What are you doing?

SPEAKER_04 2:12:03

I'm still trying to find the ultimate spider beds. I can't find I actually still have trying to find those issues. I can't find them, dude. I can't find the trades. Really? Yeah, I've never been able to find them. I found some of them, and I the ones I did find, I did buy, but I haven't been able to find any.

SPEAKER_08 2:12:16

So um but yeah, but I um the FBI bust in like the scene from Transformers.

SPEAKER_03 2:12:22

Get your feet off my grandma's carpet.

SPEAKER_04 2:12:29

Um but yeah, so uh Clayton, I know uh you are still you're not going anywhere, but you are gonna you might be taking a month off. Yep. Hopefully we will be both here for the next issue of Absolute Batman. But between now and then your baby will be here. It is inevitable and it is coming.

SPEAKER_08 2:12:46

So Yep. She's in there like I am. She's like inevitable.

SPEAKER_04 2:12:50

She's she's in there like null, and she's like, you will watch. Yes.

SPEAKER_08 2:12:57

So um just real quick, in in the event that I am not back uh for the next absolute 21 for the next episode, I want to say thank you to not only you, Paul, but to everybody listening. Um thank you for the support. Thank you for your kind words, uh, and they are very appreciated. We are very thankful for your prayers and your well-wishes. And um it's gonna be an exciting time. I I have admit I have to admit that there are times I've been nervous.

SPEAKER_01 2:13:26

You have been nervous, yeah.

SPEAKER_08 2:13:27

That it as we approach closer, um, but I might tear up a little right now. That's all right. Um but I am thankful for everything that that you have done, that the our audience has done, and that everything I know about how to be a dad, I have learned not only from the Bible, but I have learned from comics, Superman, Optimus Prime, yeah, uh, Spider-Man E sometimes Spider-Man. Yeah. And um it just means the world to me that we have a community like this where we can come to, we can talk about that, support us. Yeah. Um it's just awesome. So from the bottom of my heart, from the bottom of my wife's heart, thank you all.

SPEAKER_04 2:14:10

Yeah, and and thanks, thanks everybody. Uh we I I want to also reiterate that um, you know, uh me and Clayton have been friends for a very long time. We've been friends for almost uh we're I mean, we're what eight years, seven or eight years now. And um, you know, uh we've it's it's it's almost crazy to think that like here we are now after all these years. We worked at a comic book store together. We both I remember we both would sit in the car talking about our girl problems together, um, you know, going to conventions together and uh you know, going to signings together. And you know, here we are eight years through all of that, and you know, you're about to be a dad, and I'm about to be like a god uncle. Yeah. And on top of all of that, we have an amazing podcast that we we started this just for fun. This was this was literally just like a hey, I would love to start a comic book podcast just because we, you know, why not? Like this gives us time to spend together, and this is like I love calling every week, and it's like, dude, did you see this crack? Like when uh when the uh Marvel Midnight series got announced, Clay's like, Did you see this garbage? Like, you know, I love those phone calls. So um, but to all of our listeners, um, you know, thank you guys so much for supporting, and thank you guys so much for listening and and and and staying connected. It you know, we we we have hot takes and we have, you know, we we we agree and we disagree, and that's all good, and we're we're just here having a good time. We are still a community. So, Clayton, enjoy being a father. This is your last episode of being just a man. Just being a man, just being a man, and and you know, next time we see you, you'll be a father. So when we'll and of course we'll update everybody, everybody will be updated. We're not gonna leave you out on that. I know this is a comic book podcast, but you know, you're you're gonna hear from us a little bit too. Um, but yeah, so um thank you so much for listening. My name is Paul. My name's Clayton, and you have been listening to Beyond the Poolist.