"They Met!" – The Absolute Batman Moment That Changes Everything

We are back!

After a few weeks off (while Clayton was busy adjusting to life "being a dad"), the boys are finally back together! And holy cow, what a week it has been to make a return.

​Inside this episode:

• ​The Big Moment: "They Met!" Absolute Joker and Absolute Batman finally cross paths in Absolute Batman #21. It’s easily one of the most insane moments in the Absolute Universe so far. 
• ​The Weekly Pull: Also in this episode, we breakdown our weekly pulls. Clayton explores what happens in Transformers #33 and the aftermath of Optimus Prime losing the Matrix of Leadership. He also discusses the hilarious world of D'Orc. Then, Paul once again unleashes upon the frustrating events in Venom #238.
• ​Swamp Thing meets Jesus?: By request, we take look at Swamp Thing (1989) # 1. The comic features Swamp Thing encountering Jesus at the Garden of Gethsemane and the Crucifixion, only to see Jesus as the one who holds the multiverse together. But is it a glorious masterpiece or just pure comic book heresy?
• ​Brand New Day: We finish things off with our reactions to the latest Spider-Man: Brand New Day trailer. Does this have the potential to be the best Spider-Man movie yet?

​So, what are you waiting for? Pull up a chair (hopefully it doesn't break) and let’s go Beyond the Pull List!

Transcript

SPEAKER_06 0:07

Hello everybody, my name is Paul.

SPEAKER_02 0:09

And I'm Clayton.

SPEAKER_06 0:10

And you're listening to the Beyond the Poolist podcast.

SPEAKER_02 0:12

Hey, here we go.

SPEAKER_06 0:14

Clayton, we've been gone for a minute.

SPEAKER_02 0:16

We have. I wonder why. I don't know. Did something happen? I think something really, really, really big happened. Or maybe really small. I I don't know how to phrase that. Was it the Spider-Man brand new day trailer?

SPEAKER_06 0:26

Or was it something more special, more unique?

SPEAKER_02 0:29

Like or oh, I remember what it was. What was it? I had a daughter. You did have a daughter. You are a father now. I am a father now. How does that feel? Uh it feels crazy. Uh this is my first uh father's day in two days. Yep.

SPEAKER_06 0:41

That's oh it is. Yep. You are you are yep. So you're gonna your first father's day.

SPEAKER_02 0:45

Yeah. I I I but everything went well. Uh she is amazing. Uh at this point, the time of recording, she is three weeks old today.

SPEAKER_05 0:54

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 0:55

So uh that's crazy. Um, she was born and she was eight pounds, two ounces, and very healthy, yeah, very good. Uh very great baby. She hardly ever cries.

SPEAKER_08 1:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:08

Only when she's hungry or got a dirty diaper or something like that.

SPEAKER_08 1:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:12

And um, yeah, she's she's just doing great. She is awesome. She loves comic books already.

unknown 1:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:18

I've seen, I've seen. You've been you've been showing me a little bit, and I'm like, okay. So she's she's she's growing into a comic book fan. Yeah. Um, I got to hold her whenever um that happened, and that was a very surreal experience. Um, yeah. I I it I I did a like for those of you who don't know, I actually recorded an episode that never came out because while he was on a break, I've recorded something, and I talked about it a little bit, and I was just like, man, this is like it was the most insane feeling for like, you know, we we met each other when we were both really young and we worked at a comic book store together, and to be holding his child, like, you know, it it's the most you're a father. I can't even I can't even imagine how you feel. But like for me, I'm just like, this is insane, this is wild.

SPEAKER_02 2:01

It it it uh it it blows my mind. I mean, we will be sitting there holding her, rocking her to sleep, and we just will bust out in tears, like and and not that anything's wrong, but it's like this is everything we have ever wanted in our entire lives, like in our hands. This is a physical demonstration of God's grace, like in our arms. Yep, and it is just it's just mind-blowing. She has um such an amazing personality, it's it's crazy to see the things that she got from me and the crazy things to see from she got from her mom. Yeah, and from me, and from you, she has FOMO really bad. Uh and that's not even a joke, really. She sometimes refuses to go to sleep because she wants to see everything that's going on around the just wants to look around. Um, but she has been introduced uh actually the first night. She watched uh Star Wars uh Return of the Jedi with us.

SPEAKER_08 2:53

Yes, yep.

SPEAKER_02 2:54

Um, she has watched Transformers, and actually, strangely enough, and it could be because I listened to Transformers, I watched Transformers, read Transformers while she was in the womb. Um, but Transformers puts her to sleep. She will sleep when it's on in the background.

SPEAKER_06 3:08

Yeah, and it's the cartoon, it's not Michael Bay, okay.

SPEAKER_02 3:10

Right, right, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 3:11

We gotta get her on that.

SPEAKER_02 3:12

She's not old enough for that yet.

SPEAKER_06 3:13

She will be. So you know, like she's gonna be like, This is the best thing I've ever seen.

SPEAKER_02 3:17

I was actually telling Paul before he came over. I was uh we were laying in the floor uh doing uh we weren't doing Tummy Time, she was on her back, but we were um I was reading comic books to her. Yeah, I was reading uh Beta Ray Bill by Daniel Warren Johnson, and I I'm reading it and I'm doing voices and sound effects and stuff. And uh of course she's three weeks old, so like really how much does she understand? Right, right, right. We got to a page where spoiler alert, Fing Feng Foom is there, and he's ripping apart like these as guardians, and he's like eating them, and I hear and I look over and she's like a smile and sort of snapping pictures. She's got this huge smile on her face, and I'm like, I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing.

SPEAKER_06 3:56

She just becomes a fing fang foom fan.

SPEAKER_03 3:58

Or a beta ray building.

SPEAKER_06 3:58

Or a beta ray building. I mean, neither one are bad. No, but neither one aren't the best.

SPEAKER_02 4:04

You're not really ever gonna get a series of either one.

SPEAKER_06 4:06

Yeah, you're never gonna get it. Yeah, you're never gonna get a movie of that, or yeah, yeah, yeah. Only tie-ins, yeah, unfortunately.

SPEAKER_02 4:11

Um but but yeah, that's that's been an awesome experience. I I I'm blown away every day.

SPEAKER_06 4:18

Well, and and you know, like being one of your best friends, I just I can't help but like it's so it's so awesome. You know, I came over here like a week ago and just literally sat and held her like the entire time I was here. And it's funny because Gabrielle's like, oh yeah, Paul can come as long as you know, like he's not gonna take the baby in the entire time. I'm just like, this is a child that I love, I love this child. Like, I I want to I will kill anyone for you. Like, what which comic book would you like? Amazing fantasy 15? Okay, I'll go get it for you. You know, like it's just it it's so I don't know. She she's she and she wakes up and she gives you this like look of like like she would look at me be like, like it's it's kind of like she's got a little sass to her.

SPEAKER_02 4:59

She does, but she gets that from her mom. Oh so this might be my last beyond the full.

SPEAKER_06 5:06

Gabrielle just busts through the door right now.

SPEAKER_02 5:08

She's like, Clayton, you talking shit. She she knows. She she admits that she gets her facial expressions. My wife, I love her to death, but you can tell what she's thinking by her face.

SPEAKER_05 5:20

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:21

And uh so Aurora definitely has that, our daughter. Yeah, yeah. And uh, we joke that she got that from Gabriella and she got her farts and talking in her sleep from me.

SPEAKER_06 5:31

Yeah, she talks in her sleep. She'll be sitting there going, uh. And I'm like, and uh the question, the question of like the newborn question that I have is what do babies dream about? Because they they haven't done anything. They don't know anything, they've just been like born. Yeah. Honestly, that's probably all it is. It's just that it's just the same dream. It's just replaying birth over and over. And sometimes it's like great and it's like all like sunny, and then other times it's just like a bunch of doctors with medallical equipment, and then that's when they like you wake up screaming and crying. You know?

SPEAKER_02 5:59

Well, now that I've introduced her to Thing Fang Foom, she might dream about it.

SPEAKER_06 6:02

Yeah, she's like Fing Feng Foom and Transformers.

SPEAKER_03 6:07

I'm dreaming of Optimus Pride riding Fing Fang Foom.

SPEAKER_06 6:10

Wait, funny, funny enough, can you can you say the thing, the Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:15

So so my wife and I, we wanted to do a natural birth. Yeah. Uh we wanted to try to do everything as natural as possible, no inductions, blah, blah, blah, blah, all that stuff. Well, unfortunately, due to uh circumstances beyond our control, she had to be induced. And we had talked about it before, our doula, uh, who is kind of like a midwife, she recommended that we come up with a code word for an epidural. Uh, and an epidural is gonna reduce the pain. It's a five-inch needle that goes into your spine, uh, but it reduces a lot of the pain. Well, uh and and my wife, she was so strong doing the whole thing. And I'm so, so proud of her. And I even to this day, like, I can't tell you you think you love somebody, like when you marry them, when you're dating, when you're engaged, but when you watch that person you love go through the birth, that love takes on a whole new meaning. Yeah, and um so she did so incredible. And she said, give me the epidural, give me the epidural. And I said, No, uh you you well, I felt horrible. I felt horrible because she's crying, she's in pain. And I and because we agreed, and she made me promise beforehand, before I sound like a horrible husband, she made me promise beforehand. The thing about me, if I promise something, I'm gonna stick with it.

SPEAKER_05 7:33

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:34

She made me promise not to give her the epidural unless she said the code word. Yeah, so she is screaming, she's crying and begging for it, and I'm I I want to give it to her like right in it there.

SPEAKER_08 7:44

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:45

But uh she she's on her side, tears down her face, looking at me, holding my hand, saying, Please, I want the epidural. I said, You have to say the code word. And she's like, You're really gonna make me say it. I said, Yes, that's what we promised. Optimus Brian. Now give me the epidural.

SPEAKER_06 8:13

When you told me that when I came by, I was like, that is the best thing I've ever heard of, ever. That is the most funniest thing I've like.

SPEAKER_02 8:21

I knew she would never say that in the normal conversation.

SPEAKER_06 8:24

Yeah, yeah, yeah. She would never just be talking about Optimus Prime while giving birth.

SPEAKER_02 8:27

So I had to make it something that she would that she would remember.

SPEAKER_06 8:35

But but the baby's here. She, you know, we're in her room right now. She's not in the room, but we're we're recording in her room, and um, you know, so she is, she's it's it's such an exciting time in your life. And I I I wish I could experience what you're experiencing because I it's exciting. Very exciting.

SPEAKER_02 8:52

Maybe before you know it.

SPEAKER_06 8:54

Maybe, you never know.

SPEAKER_02 8:54

Yeah, you you'll be the great dad one day.

SPEAKER_06 8:56

You know, I I hope so. You know, I hope I hope I can, you know, I hope I can do better than you know, like ow youing riding venom or something.

SPEAKER_02 9:05

Well, we have a lot of other exciting things to do.

SPEAKER_06 9:08

This is a big week because we we missed out a little bit. So we missed a few things. Not too much, because you know, this was actually kind of the next big week for us. Right. So it kind of all worked out.

SPEAKER_02 9:16

Right.

SPEAKER_06 9:16

Um, so what are we gonna talk about today, Clayton?

SPEAKER_02 9:19

Well, we are gonna talk, uh, let's go from the bottom up. So we're gonna talk about Swamp Thing 1989. Okay. Uh we talk there is a re unreleased issue of Swamp Thing that made the creator quit. Uh, we got a comment from one of our followers asking us to talk about it. So we're gonna talk about that today, but that's towards the end.

SPEAKER_08 9:39

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 9:39

We're also gonna talk about the Spider-Man brand new day trailer. Yep, again at the end. Uh Venom 258. You're gonna talk about your favorite comic that's ever come out.

SPEAKER_06 9:47

Yeah, there's uh there's some news to that, there's some stuff going on um that might be signifying the end. So hopefully um that's where this is going. But we're gonna report on it today.

SPEAKER_02 9:57

We are, and then I'm going to make a brief mention about an image book that I have been really enjoying.

SPEAKER_08 10:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:03

Uh and that uh I think you would probably enjoy too if you're just looking for a fun book. Yeah. Uh called Dork.

SPEAKER_06 10:12

Whenever I I picked that up for him, I was I went by the store and picked it up while he was, you know, being a father. And I was like, um, Clayton's looking for Transformers and D Orc. And then I went, oh, I see, I see what this is. I was like, I'm stupid.

SPEAKER_02 10:26

Uh it's it's a very fun series. Uh uh, so I'll talk about that but just briefly.

SPEAKER_06 10:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:30

We're gonna try to talk about Transformers 33, because some crazy things are happening.

SPEAKER_06 10:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:35

But the big thing, the thing that we're gonna get into right now is Absolute Batman number 21.

SPEAKER_06 10:41

Yes, which is it happens, it finally happens. It did.

SPEAKER_02 10:45

So let's go ahead and get into it. Let's get into it.

SPEAKER_06 11:00

Alrighty, it's absolute badman 21 time. All right. I picked up two covers of this book. I picked up cover A, which is the cover with Two Face on it, and then the variant cover with the penguin on it, which I love the penguin's design. Like, we actually we have our comics sitting out usually when we do the show, just what we're talking about. And um, that was the one I chose to sit out because like I love that he's got the min minigun crutches. Yeah. Um, I don't care that much for these covers this time around because it just looks more like character reveals. You mentioned that. Right, yeah. Um, and I I I agree with you. Um, but they're still good, they're still cool covers.

SPEAKER_02 11:32

There's still cool covers. I mean, there's still like Nick Dragada art, and you can't go wrong with Dragata art.

SPEAKER_06 11:36

And also I've noticed that like we're getting we're getting to the point where we're about to have like a cover with every villain on it. Like we have the main cover, which is absolute, which is Batman. We have 15, which is Joker. We have there's a variant cover for issue seven or eight, which is Freeze. Yeah. And then now we've got Penguin, and we've got uh Two Face. 12 was Killer Croc. Yes. Um, 13 was Catwoman.

SPEAKER_02 12:00

Yeah, we had the Bane cover.

SPEAKER_06 12:02

The Bane cover, yep. There's a yep. So we're we're getting it's it there is a recurring cover release here where it's like we're getting a cover with every villain on it, which is cool. Which would be cool to have them all laid out and you know, you know, when you're sitting there. Yeah, yeah, it's just like here's all the absolute Batman villains. They're my favorite. Like Joker is the best. Um, but we get a we get a we get a big start. Now, if you remember in the last issue, um, it left off with Batman being confronted by the Robins and they're about to fight, and that's where it ended. And we pick right up into it. Like, no, no questions asked, no, no nothing. Batman is about to fight the Robins.

SPEAKER_02 12:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 12:38

And if you want to go ahead and talk about that.

SPEAKER_02 12:40

Yeah, so right off the bat, they're basically telling Batman, stand down.

SPEAKER_06 12:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:44

Like you're done for You're not gonna win. You're not gonna win. And uh and and Alfred and and Harley are on the on the line to Bruce. Yeah, get out of there, get out of there. You can't fight him. And uh, I love this line by Harley. Uh she says, Oh, he's listening, Jeeves, just not to you. He's listening to Batman. And then you turn the page and it's Batman.

SPEAKER_06 13:06

It's such a cool two-page sprint. And he's got his his his cape wrapped around his arm to the point where it's like it's like a it's like a stack of hooks. Yeah. Like all the little ends on each of the of the oh, it's so cool. It's and he's smiling, like, oh, it's so cool.

SPEAKER_02 13:24

These are bad odds for you.

SPEAKER_06 13:26

Yeah, these are bad odds for you. Oh, yeah, because the Robins are like, you're not gonna win, dude. Like you are you're outmatched, and he's like, Yeah, um, yeah, someone is outmatched, and it's you because I'm Batman, and I'm absolute Batman. Even Deadpool's scared of me. So um, but uh, but yeah, like we get into this, and um do you want to talk about the straw man thing? We made a post about it, but I think that's I think I think you're really on to it.

SPEAKER_02 13:51

Okay.

SPEAKER_06 13:52

I love that theory that you have.

SPEAKER_02 13:53

Okay, so so with the straw man, there's a logical fallacy in an argument called the straw man, and you basically build up a false narrative. You're you're feeling building up something about your opponent to attack that, not your opponent's actual argument. So my theory is that Scott Snyder and Nick Dragata and the rest of the team have chosen this title specifically because the scarecrow is the straw man to Joker. He is not the real enemy, uh, but he is the one that Batman's gonna attack and go after.

SPEAKER_08 14:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:28

And that uh so that way he's not focused on Joker. Yeah, yeah. That way he can't go after Joker because he's focused on this villain instead. So that's that's roughly the the theory, but also that um they're making Batman out to be the real problem, the joke, the the Robins are a fake hero kind of thing. Uh so a lot, yeah. Check out our Instagram post. Check out that Instagram post, yeah. 1776, and you'll see uh my full theory explain that.

SPEAKER_06 14:56

He did that theory, and I've like because I kept asking him, I was like, what are you talking? You said something about that. What are you talking about? And I'm like, because I keep thinking about it, and then when that post came out, I was like, This is like this, if this isn't on the money, like I'm gonna be pissed. Like, this is a good theory. Like, this is this is the best. Like, this is better than Venom being in Spider-Man Brand New Day type theories, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 15:13

Which he is, because you know, they have to.

SPEAKER_06 15:16

I'm gonna throw up on this table all over my absolute Batman books. But Batman goes in, he's fighting the Robins, and it's it's immediately like uh Wade makes a comment, or not Wade, Slade, sorry, Wade Wilson. Slade Deadpool's here? Deadpool's here? Yeah, I'm on a Deadpool kick today, I guess. Um Slade Wilson makes a comment that he's talking to somebody and to cut their comms off. So um Dick Grayson's Robin bot shoot- is that Dick Grayson's I think or is that the case?

SPEAKER_02 15:43

Uh yeah, because Dick Grayson is the uh the like the medical one.

SPEAKER_06 15:46

He shoots off these EMPs to disable his communication. And Slade says, like, um he's he makes a comment and he says, um, what does he say? He says, uh, where is it? He says something along the lines of like, I know, I know who he's talking to. Yeah. Like he he's had a path with with Alfred before. Him and Alfred have crossed paths in some in some way or have some relationship. Um, but the the Robins start like going all off on Batman. Um there there's this scene where one of the Robins has a motorcycle and he starts driving up to hit Batman, and Batman's cape lays out and it's got freaking road spikes on it. Like, that's so cool. And and blows his bike up immediately. And then Jason Todd's like, screw this, brrrrr, and just starts shooting through bit now. Now hit his mech is the biggest. His is like a Pacific Rim mech almost. If you ever seen Pacific have you seen Pacific Rim? Yeah, yeah. Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:37

Um we talked about being in a in a Jaeger together.

SPEAKER_06 16:39

We would be. If we were if yeah, we would be in a Jaeger together for sure. Um they're destroying buildings, they're they're it honestly causing like intense chaos. Um and uh Dick Grayson actually is like, oh my gosh, this is uh, you know, he's this isn't what we signed up for. Yeah, this ain't we're we're we're supposed to protect people, like, and we're not doing that. We're causing destruction. And um that's when Slade makes the comment. Um anyone who uh or uh Dick Grayson says something about like him uh okay, no. Slade says Batman is a murderous terrorist uh out to destroy their home, and what's more uh he has someone else behind him, someone I know well. Yeah. So there's your there's your connection with with Alfred.

SPEAKER_02 17:27

Yeah. Which Scott Snyder has said they have an Obi-Wan Darth Vader relationship. So I I'm assuming that Alfred was probably his mentor at one point. Slade turned, he cut off his legs and his arms.

SPEAKER_06 17:41

Yeah. He had the high ground.

SPEAKER_02 17:44

Yeah, the high ground. If that's not in here, Scott Snyder, I'll stop by that.

SPEAKER_06 17:48

Yeah, yeah. Where's Darth Vader? It's absolute Darth Vader.

SPEAKER_02 17:51

Dude, can you imagine what that would be like?

SPEAKER_06 17:53

I don't even I don't even want to. Like he's already scary.

SPEAKER_02 17:56

Yeah. Um, but there's one panel going back to the very beginning. I just want to talk about how strong like the robins are in their suits. Um, Stephanie um hits him, and so like their motorcycles transform to like small mech suits.

SPEAKER_08 18:10

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:11

And so she hits Batman. She gets one good and sends him flying straight into a building. Oh, yeah, yeah. Like so, this isn't just Batman being epic and crazy, just beating everybody up. Like they're they're putting up a really good fight.

SPEAKER_06 18:27

Yeah, yeah. Uh uh Dick even says, like, like Steph's hit had to break every bone in his body. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:33

Uh so you know that you know it this is a good fight. Like straight off the bat, dude, yeah, you're hooked.

SPEAKER_06 18:40

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:41

No pun intended.

SPEAKER_06 18:42

You're hooked with Batman's Bathooks or Jinchu. Um, but yeah, so Batman and they're fighting, and um, it's really cool because he jumps out like uh Dick says, Um uh when you when you find him, he's gonna need some serious medical attention. Then Batman jumps out of the building and and she's like, Looks pretty damn healthy to me. He's like he's like going to fight Dick. Yeah. Um so I'm curious, I I like that uh Dick Grayson has that heroic side to him, but he doesn't like Batman in this in this universe. So I'm very curious to like if that will ever come to be and if he will ever become Robin.

SPEAKER_02 19:20

I can see him transition to not Robin but Nightwing. Absolute Nightwing.

SPEAKER_06 19:25

Absolute Nightwing. That would be cool.

SPEAKER_02 19:26

And we're because we're getting absolute batgirl in what October?

SPEAKER_06 19:30

September, October. September, okay. Which um, oh my gosh, that's really cool because she's wearing uh Jim Gordon's uh trench coat. Yeah, and it has hooks on the bottom, like the bat hooks. Oh, does it really notice that? Yeah, it's got the bat hooks, and she's got a shotgun, and she's like beefed.

SPEAKER_02 19:46

This issue, she looks beefed up in here.

SPEAKER_06 19:48

Yeah, she started, she's starting to working out and eating protein. Like she's she's hitting Planet Fitness hard.

SPEAKER_02 19:53

She opened up the creatine, just like it's a little bit.

SPEAKER_06 19:54

Dude, she eats it off. She eats it with a spoon. Oh like her muscles, she literally just bans out just a little bit. Which I'm very excited to see that because like I wonder if she's gonna be killing people. She's holding a shotgun. That's a shotgun. I mean, she's that's a tactical shotgun.

SPEAKER_02 20:13

I could see I could see that. They'll set up a little conflict between I and I wonder if they're gonna get have Nightwing and Batgirl get together.

SPEAKER_06 20:21

Maybe I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 20:23

I don't know. I can see it. I can see it happening.

SPEAKER_06 20:25

I can see it, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:26

Um, so anyways, we we go through their fight. Uh Dick Grayson kinda gets out of his suit. You know, like you were saying, he's saying this is kind of ridiculous. Um Alfred and Harley are also working to help Bruce out. And uh this is really cool. I I don't know if this is actually true. Do you about the bats? Where she says, Oh yeah. So most she Harley says, most stay with their colonies for life, talking about bats, but some uh some are wanderers. They'll stay with one colony for a while, they'll form bonds, build families, and then without warning, they'll just leave and strike out on their own. The thing is, even if they forget the colony, the colony doesn't forget them. The losing my spot. They say the colony remembers each call as a group, so even if no bat the if no bat the wanderer knew is still alive, the colony can still pick them out of a million other bats just by the call. All which to say, yes, Jeeves, we got him.

SPEAKER_06 21:26

Yeah. And a bunch of bat drones, it's all like drones. I'm not uh that's okay. I don't I think it could have been cooler, but but the bat drones.

SPEAKER_02 21:34

Literally drones with uh like a bat face.

SPEAKER_06 21:36

With a bat face, yeah. And they're there there's like hundreds of them swarming in to like to stop uh the mechs, and they're they're hitting them hard because like uh um uh Jason Todd says that the drones are damaging his sensors. Um, you know, they're all getting hit and they're all like taking cover. Like it's it's it's it's heavy, it's metal. But uh one of the drones gets Batman and and takes him out, which he He's he's he's pretty beaten. Yeah. He he got he he kind of took some hits.

SPEAKER_02 22:03

Well yeah, he got knocked into a building. The building got collapsed off him.

SPEAKER_06 22:08

Boom!

SPEAKER_03 22:10

So yeah, he definitely took a beating.

SPEAKER_06 22:12

He took a little bit of a beating. He got kind of swamped just a little bit. Um but then we go back to um Bruce's past um with his uh you know doing his uh thing with Falcone and he he talks to to to uh Jim Gordon and you know they're kind of having this talk about like how like hey you don't you know like you know Wayland took out this loan to help you, so you don't have to keep doing this. And Bruce is like, Yeah, but now they're in debt. Like they paid off my debt, but now they're in debt, and I'm not gonna have my friends be in debt for me.

SPEAKER_01 22:49

Right.

SPEAKER_06 22:50

And you know, you know, Gordon is just like, hey man, like, you know, we we're here to help you. You know, we're like you need to allow people to help you. And he's he he's like sorry, like sorry for what I'm about to say, and he's like, get out of here, you stupid pig, and you know, like and he's like, Yeah, boys, I got him, you know, and it's just it's it's kind of sad, honestly. It's it's sad, you know. But Bruce has very I don't know, what do you what do you think about it?

SPEAKER_02 23:14

It it's emotional. This is definitely a very Jim Gordon heavy arc, I would almost say, because Jim has been brought up several times.

SPEAKER_06 23:22

Yeah, and he died at the very beginning of it.

SPEAKER_02 23:24

He died at the very beginning, so we're seeing like just how much he um cared for Bruce. Um not just Batman, but for Bruce.

SPEAKER_08 23:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:36

And and that panel really this this whole page really kind of talks about just how much everybody believes in him and how much he believes in him, how his mom believes in him.

SPEAKER_08 23:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:48

Um so that's and then there's this line for what it's worth, that bat does have a soft spot. All bats do. It's where they get the power, their power. I'll see you around, son. And and that's what Jim Gordon says to Bruce.

SPEAKER_06 24:05

Yeah. And he's talking about the baseball bat, not like Batman, because I don't think he was Batman yet.

SPEAKER_02 24:10

Not yet. Um but obviously that's a reference to what he Bruce is dealing with, that he has a soft spot.

SPEAKER_08 24:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:19

Um, but he's trying to suppress that.

SPEAKER_08 24:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:22

Uh so then we go to the next page and we go to Jim Gordon's funeral. And uh Barbara is giving a speech his his eulogy uh talking about how much he'll be remembered, what he was doing for other people, how much he cared for not just the city, but for everyone around him. This is where you really see Barbara has beefed up.

SPEAKER_06 24:43

Yeah. She she's yeah, she's yeah, she's got she's got some muscle draw. Yeah, she's Jack.

SPEAKER_02 24:48

She's like three of me. Yeah.

unknown 24:49

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 24:50

They make it very clear, they're like, oh, she's she's big now. She's working out.

SPEAKER_02 24:55

I like the subtle touch in the one panel where her eyes are really pink to show how much she's been crying. Yeah. Um, I I I like that nice little touch. Yeah. Um, but so we we see several people at the funeral. We see Bruce is there. He's in disguise, he's he's he's high hooded, yeah. Yeah. Um, go ahead.

SPEAKER_06 25:15

Uh we we have all of his friends there. So Penguin's there, Riddler's there, Two Face is there, and Wayland's there.

SPEAKER_02 25:21

And they're all kind of in disguise too. Yeah. As much as they can be.

SPEAKER_06 25:25

As much as they can be, yeah, yeah. Because, you know, Wayland looks normal. Right. Um, and then Two Face has his white hair covering his messed up face. Right. And then, you know, Enigma is wearing all these like his cloaks, and he's got green glasses on, which I think is funny. And then Penguin has just got glasses on. I know that's the best disguise.

SPEAKER_00 25:42

It's like, no one is going to recognize me.

SPEAKER_06 25:44

No one's gonna notice my weird black chin. I think I love his design, man. I can't get over, I can't get over his design because man, like it when you look at him, you feel bad for him because he's not born like that, right? Right, he's it's not like you know, because anything penguin ever he in the comics or anything, yeah. He's always had that look, but this is like we know what he used to look like, and he wasn't like a handsome guy, like you know, skinny young fella, yeah, and now he's just completely deformed. And every time you look at him, you can't help but think about Bane beating him, you know. It's just it's just it's it's such a consistently good reminder of like what has happened, right? You know, just in just in looking at a character, right?

SPEAKER_02 26:24

Because with Harvey, you could like even looking at this panel, you could be like, nothing ever happened to him. Even looking at Enigma here, you could almost be like, Well, nothing ever happened, but yeah, even Whalen, yeah, yeah. But but you can't with Oz.

SPEAKER_06 26:37

No, Oz, you can't, yeah. You you you can't like he is the one who got the worst of the of the whole thing. Because at least everybody else is able to disguise it. It's not worth him disguising it.

SPEAKER_02 26:46

And he knows it too.

SPEAKER_06 26:47

Yeah, he does, he does.

SPEAKER_02 26:48

Um, so we continue on, we see Bruce leave, we see uh Harvey Bullock, uh, the other police officer, he uh talks to Barbara about how much this meant um and how beautiful her eulogy was for him. Um and then we see the Robins out of uniform, out of costume, go to Barbara. And and it's interesting that they have Dick be the one who goes up to her first and talks about how sorry they are for her loss. And um then there's Jason who is just mad like always.

SPEAKER_05 27:23

Yeah, he's just just the yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:25

Yeah. Uh so I I really wonder what's gonna happen to Jason to make him if he becomes Red Hood.

SPEAKER_06 27:31

Dude, what if hypothetical, what if like the the Robins start to stand against Joker, and like of course Jason will be the one to be like, you know, screw you, Joker, like you piece of shit.

SPEAKER_02 27:45

And Joker just like rips him in half or something, like does something really rough to him.

SPEAKER_06 27:51

Like maybe he'll just like bite his face off or something. That's why he has to wear the helmet or something.

SPEAKER_02 27:56

Yeah, like or like, oh dude, can you imagine? Like, he just just like literally eats his face off. Oh my god, and then like literal red hood, like his face is just like constant blood or something crazy, like something to symbolize what we're gonna see.

SPEAKER_06 28:11

I I can't wait, but it's gonna be joke normal joker, like DC Earth One Joker getting a hold of like Dick Grayson is hard enough. Like, I can't imagine absolute joker, right?

SPEAKER_02 28:25

And and what and yeah, because Earth One Joker shoots, paralyzes, and possibly assaults Barbara Gordon. Yeah. Um, and then he just crowbar beats Jason Todd.

SPEAKER_06 28:40

Like literally to the brink of death and then blows him up. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:43

So and Jason in the comics stayed dead for a long time.

SPEAKER_06 28:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:48

So what is African Joker going to do to these people? Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 28:53

I don't I don't I don't want to know, but I'm sure we'll be there when it happens. Fatality. Big fatality. Joker's hungry and he needs to eat.

SPEAKER_02 29:03

Well, so we see the the Robins interact with Barbara.

SPEAKER_06 29:06

Um which actually uh I I think it's uh who's the who's the the youngest or this the short Robin?

SPEAKER_02 29:14

Uh Tim. Tim, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 29:16

Tim says, uh, he says, and we want you to know that we're gonna bring Batman to justice, like on your like for your father. Like we're gonna bring him to justice. She's like, oh, so like, you know, you're gonna bring him to justice. I've seen all the damage y'all been doing. Is that how you're gonna do it? Is that is that what you call justice? You know, like she's you know, confronting them about it, and they're like, hey, well, like we everyone was evacuated, it wasn't that bad. And uh Jason says, like, Batman is a criminal, uh, we're the law, uh, like you, just bigger. And she says, Frankly, I'm not so sure what the law is anymore. So you can already tell that she's she's starting to want to take things into her own hands. Right. And um, I'm very excited for Absolute Batwoman.

SPEAKER_03 29:57

I I very excited. It's gonna be really cool to see.

SPEAKER_06 29:59

Yeah, because she looks awesome. I think her design looks great.

SPEAKER_03 30:01

It's it's a cool, very cool design.

SPEAKER_06 30:03

Yeah, and the cover is an homage to issue one. Right. So that's just like, you know, we're getting another character cover.

SPEAKER_02 30:08

I think that's so that I think that's issue 24. So the next issue is issue 25. So that issue 25s are always big issues. So I wonder what's gonna happen there.

SPEAKER_06 30:20

More Joker, maybe?

SPEAKER_02 30:21

Maybe. I could see that.

SPEAKER_06 30:22

Maybe, maybe I really think they're really gonna build it up. They're not gonna, we're not gonna get there very quickly.

SPEAKER_02 30:26

I mean, what we're 21 issues in and dot dot dot dot dot.

SPEAKER_06 30:31

And um well, you are if you if you're if you if you've read absolute Batman 21, you know that this is the issue they meet, which is we're gonna, we're very, we're very eager to talk about. We're building up to it. We're building up to it, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:42

Uh so we turn and we go to um Bruce's friends leaving the funeral, yeah. Uh, and they're talking. How how are we going to help Bruce? That's that's the elephant in the room. What are we going to do? Yeah. And uh so each one has kind of their own thoughts. Um or or they're they're not talking about how to help Bruce yet. They're talking about did Bruce kill Jim Gordon?

SPEAKER_08 31:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:08

That's what they're talking about.

SPEAKER_08 31:08

Right.

SPEAKER_02 31:09

And and Harvey's like, well, I could see him being innocent or guilty. Like, oh, that's that's cool. Yeah, yeah. Um, so they they're they're going back and forth. Did he actually do this? Did he not? Um they're they're playing a game, it looks like, to see who can light the matches on fire.

SPEAKER_06 31:28

Which is their normal little thing. Because they did that in the uh issue seven. Yeah, issue seven of the because that was when their buddy died. Oh yeah, matches matches Malone died, yeah, yeah. Yeah. And um, and it's funny because uh Riddler also tells Wayland, he's like, Didn't you say, Waylon, didn't you say that he's going down like a really dark path? And he's like, Yeah, but not not like that. Like it's not that's not what like mental, you know. Right. And we see Oz talking about how uh they someone was trying to come kill him, and it shows him with his machine gun uh crutches, which is just so that's so cool. That's such a cool take on that.

SPEAKER_02 32:07

I wonder how they came up with that. Like, who who in the office said, what if we make his crutches guns?

SPEAKER_06 32:15

What? It's just it's just it's all freaking just Scott Snyder. He's like, gun crutches, and everybody's like, Yep, yep, I'm sold. Whatever you want, Scott. Scott, you know what? You just you just do it. You just do whatever you want. We'll prove it.

SPEAKER_02 32:29

Um, so then we Harley uh Harvey is talking about how he followed one of the guys he had prosecuted at one point, and how he was flipping the coin going back and forth. Is he guilty? Should he do it? Um, because he's taking um he had some women that he was taking away, possibly going to murder, like he had.

SPEAKER_06 32:52

Do you know who that is? No. That's Victor's ass.

SPEAKER_03 32:55

Oh, is it really?

SPEAKER_06 32:56

I mean, I mean, I think it is. Because it says his name is Vic Victor, and he carves he carves up his victims slowly, keeps them alive for days, uh, starting at their feet. I don't it might not be. I'm just like, that sounds like Victor's ass. Victor's ass.

SPEAKER_02 33:08

I just didn't even that didn't even like click with me.

SPEAKER_06 33:11

Yeah, absolute Victor's ass.

SPEAKER_02 33:12

Then again, as I told you, I was reading this issue the day it came out while rocking our my dog up to sleep. Yeah. And so it's like six o'clock in the morning. So I was reading this. No, it's okay. That's okay.

SPEAKER_06 33:23

I I I just read it and I was like, oh, that's cool. There's a I that looks like that's gotta be Victor. Victor's ass. Victor's ass. Yeah. But also when he flips the coin, Two Face will like move his hair over almost like it's like a shade, like a like a window shade. Uh, and he's when it's the blue side, it's like, yeah, I'm gonna, you know.

SPEAKER_02 33:40

All I can think about is the Batman animated series. Yeah. Like how because of how he has his face there, like where it's the blue. Because I've not seen Too Faced. I've not seen, yeah. Yeah. So that's all I can think about.

SPEAKER_06 33:55

But then we get um the penguin, and he's talking about how um like the guys we used to be, you might as well bury them in the cemetery next to Gordon. Um, I'm not Ozzy anymore, I'm the penguin. Pretty much saying, like, we're not who we used to be. And we're never going back. And we're never going back. Like, this is who the new us. And you know, Wayland's like, that's bull, Ozzy. Like, do you actually believe that? Do you actually believe that we're not still who we are? And he's like, Oh, really? And he he uses one of his uh guns to lift up the the little necklace, the the stone that Batman got with Wonder Woman. Yeah, and the second the further away it starts to get from him, he immediately starts transforming into Killer Croc again. And I'm like, Oh, that's cool. It's cool. It's like, okay, so Killer Croc is still around. Like, that's not because I thought that was just kind of like a one-and-done thing, and I was a little, I was a little like, oh, that sucks. Like, I want more Killer Croc. Um, so it's very clearly not.

SPEAKER_02 34:45

Really cool to see how, like you said, the further away it gets. Like, I mean, it's a necklace, and like Oz barely lifts it in front of his face, yeah, and he starts transforming right away. Yeah, so that thing has to be touching him, it has to be touching him at all costs, yeah. Yeah, so uh and it's and it's crazy. He's not fully transformed because he still has it. Yeah. Um, oh dude, the next page. We gotta we gotta wait because we gotta finish. Anything else you want to say on these pages before we get to the next page?

SPEAKER_06 35:15

I think it's really cool that even though like Ozzy's kind of proven him wrong, yeah, um Waylon is still, you know, he's still like we are still us. Like no matter what, like they can't ta they can't change who we are. And Ozzy's just I think out of anybody, Ozzy's is gone. Ozzy is not who he used to be.

SPEAKER_02 35:32

I think so. But you maybe not think, but you gotta think how broken he is. Like we were just talking about everything was broken in him and has not and will never heal, heal right.

SPEAKER_08 35:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:43

So you've got to think what that does to somebody.

SPEAKER_08 35:46

Oh, for sure.

SPEAKER_02 35:47

For somebody who who, like you said, was a very handsome, wealthy, powerful guy to have everything because didn't Bane, he broke every single bone in his body without without breaking a single organ.

SPEAKER_06 36:00

Yeah, yeah, which is just insane.

SPEAKER_02 36:02

Even his skull, like I mean, everything.

SPEAKER_06 36:05

Yeah, so that's yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:07

You you that has to mess with somebody. And Harvey, of course, like it like we were just talking about, all these people could live virtually normal lives. Oh yeah, except for Ozzie, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 36:18

Because no matter what, he can't. Yeah. At least everybody else can kind of pretend like they're normal. Right. Ozzie can't.

SPEAKER_02 36:24

No.

SPEAKER_06 36:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:25

And you gotta think too, with like Oz, this is something thinking probably way too deep. Even Scott Snyder might not have considered this or whatever plan on explaining this. But like what that does to your body physically, like, you probably can't even go to not to be crude, the bathroom by yourself.

SPEAKER_06 36:41

Yeah. Yeah, you probably can't.

SPEAKER_02 36:44

So it it's it he's completely messed up.

SPEAKER_06 36:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:48

And so I I don't know. I I think you're right. I think if anybody's gone, it's it's Aussie.

SPEAKER_06 36:53

It's Aussie, yeah, unfortunately.

SPEAKER_02 36:54

Uh I think he'll have a moment of redemption eventually, but maybe.

SPEAKER_06 36:58

I think I think maybe he's gone, but maybe there's still a little bit of him there, and maybe when Batman needs him, he can he can be there for him. Um I'm I'm very I'm I really like what Scott's doing with these with these characters. Yeah. Because they're more than just villains. Like, and you know, like in and these are these are main, these are big Batman villains. Yeah. And to see them like at such a like close relationship with with Bruce, and like even as the reader, you care about these characters. Like, they're not just villains that's just been misunderstood. Like, they're people, and they're people who have went through these drastic changes. And I don't know, you just can't help but like I'm so I'm as interested in their story and what's going on with them as a Batman. Yes, uh-huh. You know, and like Scott is doing a really good balancing act with like Batman and them, and then I guess now Batgirl or Batwoman and then and then Joker, you know, on top of that, like all of these characters are so interesting, and we just want more. And we want to see more because we're now starting to see that you know they're they are not who they used to be, you know, and and they might say they are, but what happens when when like are they gonna fully step over into the dark side or are they gonna stay into the light side? Like what you know, are they gonna get the force from Star Wars? Or like what we what are we doing?

SPEAKER_02 38:17

Uh well I remember reading issue one and seeing that they're all friends. And I was reading it with a friend of mine who who I used to work with, yeah, and he said, That's gonna be an emotional moment when they turn. And I said, Oh yeah, but I d I never expected this much.

SPEAKER_06 38:32

No, no, because they're still they're still kind of there, you know. Like they've turned, but they're not fully, you know, unless Batman just doesn't let them in, because you know he's still dealing with his stuff. Yeah. So what if they all try to help him and he just refuses and then they fight? Right. I don't know, that would suck. That'd suck really bad. It would suck. That's it.

SPEAKER_02 38:49

I see it coming, I see that coming down the line. I do too. Um and and they're gonna have to kind of put aside their differences for Jack.

SPEAKER_06 38:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:57

Uh but it's so good.

SPEAKER_06 39:00

But let's turn the page. Here is the main the main thing about this issue. This is the best part of the whole issue. I'm I'm so excited to talk about this.

SPEAKER_02 39:09

So I'll start out with the first page. Okay, okay. Okay, so we see Bruce standing on a steel beam overlooking Gotham. Uh he is at work, so he's in his hard hat and his uh caution vest and all this, and um one of the foremen yell out, hey Bruce, uh one of the um investors are here to come and talk to you. And Bruce just kind of waves from his little perch and he's like, and then the foreman's like, ah, engineers, you know, they're always in their head. Let's just move on, keep going.

SPEAKER_08 39:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:41

So um somebody drops their hard hat and starts walking out. And he says, Hello, Bruce, and then I'll let you take it away.

SPEAKER_06 39:50

I'm Jack Grimm. So nice to finally meet you. Oh, and it's and it's like we are finally getting their first meet. It's a full page, dude. It is a full page reveal of Jack. And he's normal. He doesn't, he's not Joker, he's not jokered out, you know. Um it's just the but the fact of him just walking across the beam shows power and confidence.

SPEAKER_02 40:12

Not wearing a hard hat like Bruce is, he is full business suit, everything. Yep. Um, dude, when I I'm I'm rocking her to sleep, and I'm reading this in one hand, and I have her in the other, and I literally, because I bought it digitally, as you can see.

SPEAKER_08 40:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:28

Um so I can't see the the next page. Yeah, so I turn and I see it, and I literally go, Yeah. And I stop rocking her and everything. She starts waking up like shh. My gosh, that's insane.

SPEAKER_06 40:42

And and and Bruce just freaking, you! And turns around and just throws like the the hardest, most not pulled back Batman punch ever, and Jack Grimm catches it.

SPEAKER_02 40:55

Don't even like he just kind of leans back and just barely catches it.

SPEAKER_06 40:59

Yeah, just like, oh yeah, it's a little handy. Um, and he says, There's no need for all that. Let's not make a scene. And he says, I know what you are. And Jack says, Yes, I'm the man who made you, but back then you were just meant to be a funny side project, a footnote. But what you've become, I love it. The truth is, I can't imagine life without you anymore. You and me, I want to do this dance forever. And that is such like it's a nice dip in the classic Joker thing, you know, like it it goes back to like just their relationship. Like this, we're gonna do this forever. You know, like you take this page away. This is the best, this is the the coolest page ever.

SPEAKER_02 41:41

So before we get to that page, that last panel on the page before, Bruce is taller than Jack.

SPEAKER_06 41:46

Oh, he's towering him.

SPEAKER_02 41:48

So he is looking down at him and Jack is looking up, but Jack is the one making the power moves.

SPEAKER_08 41:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:54

And so when we turn that page, when we see uh Jack Graham say, I want to do this dance forever, you start seeing this like smile, like almost like Heath Ledger's Joker. You see some teeth come out of his throat. Yep. Uh, and he's just it's he's just transforming, he's got blood coming out of his eyes. Yep, these teeth are going crazy, and Bruce says, I'm not afraid of you. And Joker gets teeth over by his eyes, and he just in the freakiest comic panel I've ever seen in my entire life, says, Boo! Yeah, and Bruce falls off the ledge, yeah, and Joker's laughing. Yeah. And uh he catches Bruce. Uh-uh. You don't get to do that yet, Bruce. You not until you see Batman reach his full potential. If you hear one thing I s if you hear one thing I say today, let it be this. Batman isn't yours to end, he's mine. And he's just getting started. Oh I think reading that, my heart did not beat at all.

SPEAKER_06 43:08

I was I was like, this was the the part of the book where I was like, oh shit. I was like, oh my gosh. And um, it's funny, my buddy Seth, I'm trying to get him into this book, and I've been telling him about it, and he's like, Yeah, that does sound really cool. And I was talking to my other friend, Nathan, uh, while Seth was there, and I was like, Have you read the new issues? Like, no, not yet. What happens? I was like, Do you want me to spoil it? And he goes, Yeah, go ahead. I went, they meet. And Seth was doing something, and he turned and looked at me. He went, They met, and I went, they met. Not even he's like, he's like, who and then Nathan's like, Who met? And and uh like I'm trying to get them into it because I'm like, this is this book is awesome, like it's so good. But um the that final page when they're talking about like you know, Batman's not yours to end, it's mine. You see, uh, you see back into Ark M, and it's the uh 246th level uh trans. Mutation and plac plasticity, and you see these hands coming out of clay molding a head, all of them working together to mold a head, and starts like molding the ears. Uh, that clayface is forming forming Batman. Yeah. Which is just like, oh crap. Like we got our first reveal of Clayface as well, which we didn't get to talk about it because that was happening while you were being a dad. Yes. And um I love it.

SPEAKER_03 44:26

Well while you were being a dad. Yeah. While you were doing dad things.

SPEAKER_06 44:30

Um and it got announced that Clayface molds himself with like the hands come out of the ground and mold him, which is so cool. Yeah. And he looks like a like a fine art statue. Yeah. Rather than just like a big clay monster. Right. I think that's sick. Whoever touches the clay, I think he's able to make copies of people who touch and interact with it. So we've already we know Batman's already interacted with it from Ark M. So I'm very excited. I'm very excited for Clayface. And this is a good, this is like good timing. Yeah. Like, you know, usually comic books are very big with like, oh, we gotta do this thing by this time because there's this movie coming out. Right. They did this at a really good time. Yeah. Like it just, I guess it just worked out because this doesn't seem purposeful. Like I don't think this is on purpose.

SPEAKER_02 45:12

I don't think we're gonna get this clayface. I because by the time Clayface comes out in what October? Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 45:16

Oh, we'll be done with Clayface by then. So I'm very excited. And we see that Bruce is scared of Joker. I think he's he's terrified of Joker. And I I want more of that. Like I, you know, when we met Scott, we talked to Scott and I was like, when do you think they're gonna meet? And he's like, they're gonna meet pretty soon. Like in this arc, they're gonna meet. And who knew the next issue? Wait, that was before 20. Yeah, that was before 20. Yeah, so in two issues, here they are meeting, and it it is like I told my girlfriend about it too. I was like, I was like, read I was a bad man. You do you want to hear what happens? That's what I do every time it comes out like, so this book came out. Do you want to you want me to tell you what happens? And I was like, I tell her that that they met, and uh she's like, just now? And I'm like, yeah. Like they've been building it for like it. It's just it's so nice, it's exciting. It's like we're getting another little piece of a cookie, and it's just like you know, you know what I thought about?

SPEAKER_02 46:10

Um, so Joker laughs when he scares Bruce off that edge. But remember back in issue one, they say they call him the Joker because he never laughs.

SPEAKER_08 46:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 46:19

So I wonder what why. Yeah. You know, it it that I don't think that's an error. I think that's done in terms of it. I think it's purposeful. I think that'll be explained later.

SPEAKER_06 46:29

Well, every time he jokers out, he laughs. Yes. Because every time, like when you first see him Except the first time you see him as Joker, he's not laughing because he's covered in the the baby bodies. Right. But then you see him in issue 15, and when he jokers out on the island, he's laughing.

SPEAKER_02 46:45

And then and then when he is in the last issue, yes, in the chair, he's laughing. He's laughing there too. Yeah. So not just be Jack Grimm doesn't laugh.

SPEAKER_06 46:53

But Joker. Joker does. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 46:56

So um also I sent this page, I sent the page with the freaky transformation to my dad. And you know, the running theory is that this Joker is like a demon.

SPEAKER_08 47:06

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 47:06

Uh, and my dad said, I think he's probably more like a vampire. And I'm like, that could make sense. And I got to thinking about it. Like, that would explain the babies. That would explain like the blood or whatever he needs from there.

SPEAKER_06 47:19

Yeah, but he could get he could get blood from anybody. Why the babies? And why are they red?

SPEAKER_02 47:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 47:26

Because it seems like there's like a there's something there. I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 47:29

After after experiencing childbirth. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh when a baby comes fresh out of the womb, they are very swollen and very discolored is the best way to say it. Yeah. It's a mixture of pinks and reds, and she they're they're just very swollen.

SPEAKER_06 47:44

So he's just a newborn baby.

SPEAKER_02 47:46

Unless they're just straight newborn babies. That'd be hard to get a hold of.

SPEAKER_06 47:50

Well, unless you're the That's why doctors at the hospital just let you leave your baby overnight.

unknown 47:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 47:56

Some that that's that's crazy. We we talked about that uh when you came to visit. Uh just how crazy it is that some parents like leave their baby.

SPEAKER_06 48:07

Yeah. Like 'cause the baby has to be at the if you don't know a a newborn baby has to stay at a hospital for 24 hours. Right. And uh just to make sure everything's okay and make sure all the vitals remain good. So if something happens, they can help right there in the moment. And um the parents can leave, but the babies cannot. So like it's And some people do it. Some people leave their babies. Because you had told me that. I was like, that sounds terrifying. Like I would never leave my baby at a hospital without me there.

SPEAKER_02 48:31

Here in Gotham, Jack Graham owns everything. He could own the hospitals. Yeah, he could have access.

SPEAKER_06 48:37

Yeah, you're right. He could he could have that. I don't know. I think it's a I think it's a uh a stem cell stamp. Yeah, yeah, that's what I think it is. It could be. I don't know. I guess we'll we'll see. Scott, can you tell us? You want to come on the show, Scott, and and we can talk about this? Because I'm uh we're freaking I'm drooling over this book. Like I have to read it like over my head because I'm drooling so much. I don't want to get it on my pages. Um this is this is fantastic. This was a very good issue. Um, you know, we're we're starting, we're still building up very slowly. Yeah, we're still we're still going. And something my only complaint with absolute Batman, I do have a small complaint, and it's only just because of the release order.

SPEAKER_08 49:12

Okay.

SPEAKER_06 49:13

They release one issue and then like two weeks, it's another issue, and then there's like a big gap between that. Have you noticed that? I have noticed that. Two quick two releases close together and then a giant gap, and then two releases and then a giant gap.

SPEAKER_02 49:25

I I I've noticed that.

SPEAKER_06 49:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 49:27

And my my complaint with absolute Batman is not necessarily the book, but it's like what you have said. It's um it's the fact that they kind of release, so they let the book be out for what, like a week, and then they release, hey, then in the next issue, we might see Clayface. Yeah. Or two months down the line, we're gonna see Batgirl. Like, yeah, okay, that's that's cool, but and it keeps us hyped for the book.

SPEAKER_08 49:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 49:52

But also like you're giving away a little bit, like you're you're not, but you are at the same time, you know.

SPEAKER_06 49:57

I think I think it's a thing too where it's like they have to this book is so popular that they have to keep people hooked. Right. And it's like for some people like us, like we we're in, we're fully in. And we'll buy it no matter if they show nothing or if they show something or whatever. Yeah. Um, because I'm a big fan of like if a book like with Donnie Kate's Venom, I did this, and now with Absolute Batman I'm doing it, I don't open the book until I'm reading it because I don't want to spoil it for myself. And um, because you know, I'll accidentally flip to the wrong page and be like, crap. Like, I guess they meet, you know, like you know, so yeah, so I think um they have to do, but I still think there's still a lot of surprises because they're still surprising us pretty well, you know. But it's a good insight of like we kind of can theorize what's coming. Right. It's like a little bit of like a it's a little little breadcrumbs, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 50:43

So So speaking of what you were talking about, so absolute Batman 22 comes out in two weeks.

SPEAKER_05 50:49

Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_02 50:50

Or three weeks, my bad. Okay, and then two weeks, and then three weeks. So exactly what you're talking about. Yeah, it's yeah, it's weird. It's weird. It's weird, yeah. Um, because I I just want it now.

SPEAKER_06 51:03

I just want all of them. Yeah, Scott, can you just drop all of them? Like uh from issue now to 100. Can you go ahead and just drop them? Yeah, just don't drop the whole story. And and I know you've wrote it.

SPEAKER_02 51:11

I want you to have it all drawn and everything.

SPEAKER_06 51:13

Can you just stay up all night and do it all? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, but this is still an on the pool list. This is beyond the pool list for me. This is still beyond the pool list. Um I think this is just it's it's a consistently growing book, and it's never it it never fails to impress me. No, every issue shocks me and surprises me, and every issue is just like, oh my gosh, like I cannot wait for the next one.

SPEAKER_02 51:36

Yeah, oh yeah. You know, so I I it's beyond the pool list for me, too. I I I'm not a Batman fan, you know that. I've still not watched Robert Pattinson's Batman.

SPEAKER_06 51:45

You got to. They're they're starting to film, they're a new one. I know. They just started filming.

SPEAKER_02 51:48

It's gonna come out the same, it comes out next year, uh, and it comes out with Superman 2. So I probably will because I have a feeling, even though James Gunn says they're not in the same universe, they're not in the same universe, you can say that all day, but you're filming them at the same time.

SPEAKER_06 52:03

I I think they're not. Because the the Batman is very on its own.

SPEAKER_02 52:08

Yeah, but I could I could see them saying it's they're not, they're not, they're not, and then being like, well, you know what, we changed our mind. They are.

SPEAKER_06 52:15

Yeah, they could, they could, they could, it could happen.

SPEAKER_02 52:17

It it might not. I'm not getting my hopes up.

SPEAKER_06 52:19

I'm glad that James Gunn is is if this is separate, I'm glad he's leaving it separate because like the Batman is really good. I really like what they're doing. I really like that the story is very different and dark and deep. And like, I'm I feel like I am getting a little tired of the big universe thing and everything sets up something else, you know. Just a little bit. Um, it's nice to just like this is a Batman story, and it's okay if it exists in the same universe, but like, you know, which I guess we could we'll talk about that when we talk about Spider-Man, is that like, for example, using that movie, it's like I wish it felt like a Spider-Man movie that existed in the world. You know what I mean? Like, I wish it didn't have Hulk in it, or it didn't have like other, you know, I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 53:01

I just you know So I I think like with Superman, the movie that came out last year, it it is its own self-contained story. Like they're not trying to build up anything big. Like, yes, they exist in this universe, but it's not that they uh they're not intentionally setting up something else. Right, right. Um sure the justice gang is in there. The justice gang. Yeah, it's it's that what it's called? That's what they call it. Oh, okay, okay right now.

SPEAKER_06 53:26

Uh that makes sense, I guess.

SPEAKER_02 53:27

I think that it has a purpose down the line. Yeah. But but it's not I don't think they're building up to anything big yet. They're not trying to be the MCU because I think they realize they they can't be the MCU in today's day and age. Right, right. I think every franchise has kind of realized Star Wars took a while to realize that. Not didn't watch Mandalorian and Grogu. Probably wait till it comes to Disney Plus. Yeah. But you didn't watch all of them all.

SPEAKER_06 53:51

I did not. I need to I need to. I Star Wars has just still been a weird thing for me. Like it's just, it's I don't know. Like, I really liked Mandalorian Mandalorian season one and two. I really liked the Clone Wars. Um I just Mandalorian season three came out and it was just really bad. And it it just it kind of ruined it for me just a little bit. I don't know. I'm just I need to go through and re-watch all the Star Wars that I like again. Yeah. So then I could be like, oh yeah, this is good, and then watch Mandalorian Grow Grow, and then if I hate it, then I'm like, oh no, this is good.

SPEAKER_02 54:20

So with Star Wars, I uh I told you this, but I'll share it on the podcast as well. That uh when my daughter was born, the first thing that we watched was Return of the Jedi.

SPEAKER_06 54:28

Which is the best one.

SPEAKER_02 54:29

My favorite Star Wars movie. So I'm holding her, you know, she's only a few hours old at this point. Yeah. And I said, they didn't make any more Star Wars after this. This is the last one.

SPEAKER_06 54:40

Yeah, they stopped after this. You know, they just came out with the Clone Wars, and then that's all they did. That was it. That was it. Nothing else.

SPEAKER_04 54:46

Nothing else.

SPEAKER_06 54:49

Uh so moving out to Absolute Batman, we're getting into your book, which is We now return to the Transformers.

SPEAKER_02 54:58

Alright, so Transformers, a book that I am trying to get you to read so hard.

SPEAKER_06 55:02

I'm sorry. I have your trade still. I need to he let me borrow his trade, and I feel bad because it's been at my house and he got it for his birthday, and I've I've had his birthday gift for months already. And I'm like, I hate it when people do this to me, and now I'm doing it to him.

SPEAKER_03 55:16

It's okay. You've been trying to get my wife to read Ultimate.

SPEAKER_02 55:18

Yeah, you thought about Ultimate Spider-Man.

SPEAKER_06 55:21

It's fine.

SPEAKER_02 55:21

I've read Ultimate Spider-Man. My wife hasn't. Paul is convinced that if she just reads Ultimate Spider-Man, the rest of it, that she will be a comic fan too.

SPEAKER_06 55:29

It is the easiest book to get into. Not the new one, not the one that we hate. The the the OG. Brian Michael Bendis, Mark Bagley, that one. And I think if she gets into that, if she gets hooked, like it's gonna, it's and you know, you you'd say I think you said on the last episode that she's like, I don't want to read this is just Spider-Man.

SPEAKER_02 55:44

I'm like, you have to keep reading. She read the first issue of the first volume and was like, it's not bad, but like it's Spider-Man. I'm like, Yes, but you've got to keep reading. You get so much better, please. Please keep reading, please. So so at least you read the first issue, so that means you have to at least read the at least.

SPEAKER_06 56:05

I know, I know. I will read the first issue. I will, I will, I will. I I've been meaning to. I've just I've been it's been busy.

SPEAKER_02 56:11

I've been you have been busy. So Transformers 33 came out last week. Uh at the time of this recording. You do know what's happened since Robert Kirkman's took took over because we've talked about it on the show.

SPEAKER_08 56:20

Right, right.

SPEAKER_02 56:21

Uh so at this point we're picking up. I actually don't know if I remember talking about issue 32 on the show. I don't think we're talking about it. Which one was that one? Issue 32. Yes, I did because we talked about the dialogue problem, didn't we?

SPEAKER_06 56:32

I think so. You'd said that the it was kind of campy. It was a little campy. It's a little campy.

SPEAKER_02 56:35

Uh because she has the uh star saber. Yes, I did a move.

SPEAKER_05 56:40

Yeah, yeah, we did talk about that.

SPEAKER_00 56:41

Yeah, you now face Alita Prime and she wields the star saber, the ghost of the star saber, the ghost of the starsaber.

SPEAKER_03 56:48

Okay, buddy.

SPEAKER_07 56:53

Okay, big guy. Okay, buddy.

SPEAKER_02 56:59

So we pick up where that left off, and Alita and the Autobots are fleeing uh their their battle. Uh Alita comes down, she transforms, and she says, Hey, is everybody okay? Everybody doing all right? Uh they're like, Yeah, hey, everybody's accounted for except um these two people that I'm not gonna mention because it's big spoilers for you.

SPEAKER_04 57:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 57:20

Um they are pretty badly damaged, um, but everybody else is good. So Alita and Ultra Magnus have a moment where they're talking. Alita's uh kind of tired and she's worn out, and Ultra Magnus says, Hey, what's she still have the sparks? She still has the uh Matrix of the leadership.

SPEAKER_06 57:37

The matrix of the leadership, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 57:38

And uh she's like, Yeah, I'm I'm just uh I'm just tired. Uh I'm really worn out. So there's something maybe going on there. Maybe she's not fully accustomed to like the power of the Matrix yet. Yeah, it's kind of draining her.

SPEAKER_08 57:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 57:50

I don't know. Yeah, we don't know. Um Ultra Magnus volunteers to carry her back, and then Jazz says, uh, what was that? Was that the Matrix? And Alita says, uh, yes, it's light was small, but still mighty, which is a callback to the previous rider, uh, something that he as an optimist say.

SPEAKER_08 58:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 58:08

Um, so we see Alita ride back on Ultra Magnus to the base. Uh, they start sharing it, they get to the Autobot base, Blue Streak shows up. Yeah, we find out that Hot Rod and Springer are here and they have Energy on and they are replenishing the Autobot supplies.

SPEAKER_03 58:25

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 58:25

Meanwhile, we jump to Earth. And we are seeing in Spike's journal, Spike is basically Sam from uh the Michael Bay movies.

SPEAKER_08 58:33

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 58:34

Um, he's giving an update on everything going on with the Autobots. Will Jack is in Chicago rebuilding it. Uh Carly is here from iCarly. I know.

SPEAKER_07 58:48

Oh, I didn't know that was in the I gotta read this book now. Oh, this is big. It's got iCarly in it. Oh my gosh, they're back.

SPEAKER_02 58:56

Not that dumb reboot. Um, so they we so Spike's giving an update. Like, hey, this is what this person's doing, this is what we're doing, RC is RC Magnus, blah, blah, blah, blah. Uh, we see Optimus, and he's talking about Optimus, and he's saying, like, he's not the same optimist as before. He's still optimist because he's still a leader, but he's reckless, he is um kind of impulsive, he is spontaneous, he's not as calculated. Um, and you see this panel, he he almost looks kind of evil. I mean, I think that's just the way the shadows work. Oh, interesting.

SPEAKER_06 59:31

Um, he does, yeah. Oh gosh, wow.

SPEAKER_02 59:33

I I and I don't think they're gonna make Optimus evil or anything. Yeah, right, right, right. But I just think that's just the way things look. That's done intentionally to show him being different, yeah, and being younger. And so uh they're rebuilding a bridge, we we continue to go on, and we have um uh Optimus and RC are training. RC says, Um, you know, do this, do this, blah blah blah blah blah. Yeah, Optimus is training, and he just wants to keep going, keep going, keep going. And RC says, Hey, we we've got to cut it for today. Yeah, this isn't enough. Yeah, like I've got other people I have to train. And so basically what the narration says is he's afraid he's not gonna be able to do what he used to. And now that he's lost the matrix of leadership, he feels like he's weak. Um, he has his mission, but he doesn't think he has the means to accomplish anymore. Uh so that's what we're dealing with throughout this issue. Um, Optimus, still though, on the when you turn the page, it looks like a hopeful Optimus. So again, it wasn't meant to be evil, I don't think.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:34

I think it's just it just looked, yeah, it looked a little weird. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:36

Um we see Wheeljack uh get dropped off at a uh shard of Cybertron that has fallen into the Pacific Ocean.

SPEAKER_06 1:00:43

Oh wow, okay. Um and how close is Cybertron to Earth?

SPEAKER_02 1:00:47

Um it it's far away, but uh if you read the book, uh Cybertron gets Paul.

SPEAKER_06 1:00:53

If you would actually freaking read the thing, um you would know you would have your question.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:57

Come on, man. But I'll give you a quick summary. Cybertron is brought close to Earth at one point, kind of like it is in the third transfer. Yes. Um so this part of their planet falls into Earth.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:09

Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:10

Um, and so Cyber uh Willjack jumps off there, and he he's looking for something, he's looking for technology. Um and as we will get there eventually, he's looking probably to build the Dynobots. So I think that's they're gonna come into play soon. Uh Optimus and RC have a moment where um it's very uh kind of sweet because Optimus is saying, like, hey, I have a mission, I just don't feel like I can accomplish it. Please don't tell anybody else. Yeah, I I need your help. And RC says, Yeah, yeah, you'll have it. That's that's exactly what you know I'm here for.

SPEAKER_08 1:01:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:48

And Optimus says, uh, I fear uh literally he says, I fear I have lost the very means of achieving that mission of protecting Earth. RC says, Alita Prime, ungrateful zealot. And Optimus tells her, No, it's wrong to hate her. She's doing what she thinks is right, I'm doing what I think is right. And Alita and RC says, You think you're both somehow right, but what if you're both wrong? Yeah. Somebody says that has the same line as like reveal the second transformers, where it's like, ask your people this. What if we leave and you're wrong? Yeah, yeah. Uh so that's that's a cool moment. Uh they have kind of saying you still see Optimus' heart. Yeah. He's like, hey, don't hate her. Like, we're just two people trying to go about our mission two different ways. Um we see Willjack fall in, uh, he discovers some sparks. Uh, we have a moment with um oh gosh, what is there's Cliff Jumper and Shredhead. Shredhead is is that uh character's name.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:52

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:52

And uh we have a little moment with them. It seems like maybe Shredhead has uh some connection to somebody Cliff Jumper used to know, but we don't really know. Uh meanwhile, we're back to Megatron in the Nemesis of the Decepticon ship, and their Decepticons are talking like, hey, do you uh you ever seen anything like this before? Because I told you, if you remember back, Megatron is in like this crystal cocoon like thing right now, as he's getting the matrix of oppression.

SPEAKER_08 1:03:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:22

Uh and they're like, no, never seen anything like that before. That's kind of weird.

SPEAKER_08 1:03:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:26

And so there's a there's a panel here with Skywarp, and he says, Scrapper, hook, get this mess out of my sight. And the uh the constructor cons says, Okay, rude? Uh and then they say, Hey, wait a minute, and I'm gonna spoil this for you.

SPEAKER_08 1:03:41

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:42

Where's Starscream? And and we turn the page, because Starscream is dead.

SPEAKER_08 1:03:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:47

Um, Megatron kills him.

SPEAKER_08 1:03:49

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:50

Uh, we turn the page and it's the bottom of the ocean, and you see a hand, and you see it drag itself forward, you see another hand reach out, and it's dragging itself forward until we get basically zombie Starscream.

SPEAKER_06 1:04:03

Whoa.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:03

It's a freaky panel.

SPEAKER_06 1:04:05

That's awesome.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:06

Uh, really cool. Uh, I'm super excited. Uh, I don't know what Starscream is gonna do. I don't know how this guy's still alive. Yeah, Megatron blew the crap out of him. Oh so again, I have no idea how he's alive.

SPEAKER_08 1:04:19

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:20

Um, but I think he's just gonna add a little bit of chaos to everything that's going on. Yeah, because you're gonna have That is a sick panel. That's a really cool panel. It's a cool panel. Just dragging himself across the ocean.

SPEAKER_06 1:04:32

It it's just zombie Starscream because his check engine light came on.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:38

Like he he has one eye.

SPEAKER_06 1:04:40

Yeah, and his teeth are just so like he's his face is very black and he's got these like yellow teeth, and it's just that that's a really cool panel.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:48

Which dude, I want you to read this because Starscream's always been the oh Lord Megatron, you will never take control of the Scepticons, I'll do it better.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:57

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, uh and in this series, they have made Starscream like terrifying.

SPEAKER_08 1:05:03

Really?

SPEAKER_02 1:05:03

Like, I'll I'll spoil this for you. First, first issue, um, Starscream snatches a fighter pilot out of the sky and just squishes them.

SPEAKER_06 1:05:12

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:13

And just like uh says something along the lines of we're gonna have fun on this planet.

SPEAKER_06 1:05:18

Oh my goodness. Yeah, so Starscream is a little bit, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:22

He's just he's he's he's not the usual Starscream that we know. Yeah in in this series. So I I think we're we've got Optimus leading this team, Votobots, we've got Alita leading her team, we've got Megatron getting a power-up right now. Yeah, yeah. Starscream's just gonna cause everybody's crap to get blown up, you know. So uh really good series, still be on the pull list for me. Um the dialogue definitely got better this issue. Um, there's I really don't have any complaints. I really enjoyed it. Much better than than the last issue. Cool. So uh so I want to talk about Transformers, yeah. So and I did. So I want to talk about real quick uh another series. Sorry to hog the mic. No, go for it. Um and that's called Dork.

SPEAKER_06 1:06:02

Dork, yeah. Dork. Yeah, D Orc. Hey Derek, can I get D Orc, please?

SPEAKER_02 1:06:06

Uh so I'll tell you a little bit about why it's called Dork. Uh he is half dwarf and half orc.

SPEAKER_06 1:06:12

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:12

So Dork.

SPEAKER_06 1:06:14

Dork.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:16

This is I I don't know. I'm not gonna spend time evaluating the series or anything. I just want to tell you about it real quick. Yeah. Um it is a very fun series. It is I have never laughed so much reading a comic as I have with this. And let me just show you this real quick. It's in the very beginning. Like, dude, I I have I have so much fun reading this. Um so it it's this half dwarf, half orc, and he has a shield that's just like he just wants to murder everybody.

SPEAKER_06 1:06:46

The shield does or the shield does. Oh, the shield, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:48

Okay, because Dork is just this, like, he has a good heart. Yeah, yeah. And and everybody thinks he's gonna bring about this like doomsday prophecy. Yeah. So everybody wants to kill him. And the shield just wants to like murder everybody. Yeah. He's also got a uh a ghost chicken that follows around. Okay. With him. Uh he accidentally kills it in the first issue. So his mission is to put the chicken back together. So this is the very first page, and it's like, but like every good adventure, one thing always leads to another. And now Dork runs through the town alone, wet and very naked, currently being chased by the town guard. He has found an open shop to hide his dingling. It's him walking in the store.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:35

That's really good. I really like that.

SPEAKER_06 1:07:37

So he's found a shop to hide his dingling.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:41

It is. I mean, it's just a fun, like it's just a fun, goofy series. It's just yeah, and and that's all it is. I mean, there's the ghost chicken.

SPEAKER_06 1:07:49

Is it an ongoing or is it like a interesting?

SPEAKER_02 1:07:53

It's just I don't know, man. I if you just want something to laugh at, I'll totally let you borrow this. It's an ongoing, like I said. So uh it's only five issues in.

SPEAKER_06 1:08:02

Only five issues in so yeah, that's not too bad. Um it does, it does seem funny.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:05

I've never I've never laughed as much reading a comic as I have with this. So writes it. Uh Brett Bean. Brett Bean. I've never been I don't know anything he's ever done before.

SPEAKER_06 1:08:14

I don't either, I've never heard of him before.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:16

Um but it's incredible. First issue, um, I think the first issue sold out and was like top ten bestsellers when it came out. Wow, okay. Issue two did the same thing, like completely sold out.

SPEAKER_08 1:08:29

Huh.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:29

And I kept seeing it on Instagram, and I was like, I don't know about that. I'll I'll read the first issue. I was hooked first issue because like the first three pages, I'm just busting my head off. Okay. Just laughing so much.

SPEAKER_06 1:08:40

I'll check, I'll look into it. I think I think I'd like to read it. That looks that looks funny. That looks fun.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:45

Finds a place to hide his dingling. I mean, we're we're 12.

SPEAKER_06 1:08:51

Yeah, yeah, we're we are. It's fine. It's it's comedic though. It's you know, it's like it's it's clever.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:57

That's why we got into comics in the first place. Yeah, yeah. We wanted to escape.

SPEAKER_06 1:09:01

Because we wanted to hide our dingling. You've never gotten out of the shower and yeah, with my comic in the shower and I just you know, yeah, who needs to tell? When you've got absolute Batman number 21, you just wrap that around your dingling and then you're gonna.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:14

Comic 21, issue one. That's what I use my issue one for.

SPEAKER_06 1:09:17

Oh, what's Mark? You know, well, I didn't think about that, but I guess my autograph issue will cover it pretty good.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:21

I think so. Uh we have a we have a listener I want to mention real quick. Oh, yeah. Um, who is uh listen to us, Abdullah, thanks for listening. Uh he mentioned after you were talking about what you paid for your absolute Batman number one.

SPEAKER_06 1:09:35

Yeah, and he said, Yeah, yeah, you don't have three. You I'm jealous of you. Good, you you, man, you got the prediction of the future, man.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:42

I I know he he knew something was happening.

SPEAKER_06 1:09:44

He knew something was gonna happen.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:45

Uh he bought three at cover price when they first released.

SPEAKER_06 1:09:48

That's so awesome. And I asked him All cover A's, or did he all cover A's? Wow, okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:53

So I was like, you you either knew this was gonna take off or you're just like, I really like this. I want more.

SPEAKER_06 1:09:58

Yeah, I want three of these.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:10:00

It's okay. I usually I I sometimes when a book comes out and I really like it, I'll get two of them, one to have and one not to touch, you know, just because I like it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:08

The case, like he he read it and was like, this is really good. I want one, just like you said, to keep, to read, to pass down.

SPEAKER_06 1:10:14

If you're listening, I want to let you know you were very lucky. Because, you know, like I mean actually, this happened to both of us. Um, the Batman Damned book, when it first came out, we were both working at the comic book store at the time, and Derek, the the the shop worker who still who still works there today, he literally was like, Hey, we got extras. Do you do you guys want one? And we were like, nah, it just ain't for me. And of course, it's like a $600 book now, and you can't even touch it. Because the Batman's dangling. So, like, man, do you and again, that's the thing about comics, is you just don't know, like, you never know when something's gonna pop off like that. So, man, um, he he he you sold one, I've right. Yeah, he did say he sold. He sold one and he's got two.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:55

Well, yeah, I think he said he wants to meet Scott Snyder to get him to sign the game.

SPEAKER_06 1:10:58

Do it, man. He drew a little Batman on mine, it was really cool, and Scott is so great, he's so nice, and he signs it in a good spot too. Like, it's not like obscure. Some some artists will sign covers in like the middle, and it's like, oh, I can't even see Batman's face anymore. You know, like so. I've had that before. So um, but man, that's that's awesome. Thank you for listening.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:15

Yeah, we we appreciate everybody listening. Now we we go from fun and you've got to talk about something not so fun, but there may be a silver lining.

SPEAKER_06 1:11:23

So, so I'm not gonna get too much into this. I know I'm sure people are tired of like, okay, he's talking about Venom again and he hates it, and it sucks. We get that you don't like Al U. We get it. We know you've said it over and over again. So I'm gonna be very quick with this issue. Um, long story short, um issue 258 of Venom uh tells the story of Peter and MJ. Uh the book opens with them at Paul's funeral, and it says uh it's I can't remember what the tombstone says. It says something like dead like for like dead. This guy's he dead. Yeah, he ain't coming back, we promise. It says um rest in peace eternally. So I was like, yeah, so I guess that he's not coming back. Yeah, I guess they're like really doing it. And um Dylan is doing his normal, like, thing where he's just like everything's my fault, and I I suck and and and and I'm just gonna run away. And he does that, you know, because he's mad because he thinks that Dylan or that Paul dying is his fault when it's really not, like it's you know, torment or whatever. Such a crappy villain. Um, it's funny because Marvel keeps advertising, they're like the the the epic event of Death Spiral, and then all the Spider-Man's fans are like, this sucked, like this was not good, it was not a good event. Um long really, I'm not gonna get I'm not gonna break this down beat by beat, but long story short, Dylan blames himself for Paul's death, and MJ and Peter reunite and they go for a little date walk through the park, and they're walking through the park kind of catching up, and you know, they're like, Oh well, you know, like um MJ goes into kind of some of her trauma with the beginning of the Spider-Man run where she went to this other dimension where she met Paul and she was like, you know, it got to the point, she was telling Peter, she's like, It's all got to the point where I thought you were just dead. Like I was hoping you'd come for me, and you never did. And I just I thought you were dead, you know. Like I just figured all hope was lost, and you know, and I met Paul and he was there when I needed him, and you know, and we just built this life together. And she's like, and it it it's a little redundant just because of the fact, like I don't know if that's the right word to say, but like she the literally the beginning of the series is her trashing on Paul every chance she can, and now she's like sympathetic, and it's just like it I I I understand everybody hates Paul, but I think there was genuine character, there was a there was a good use for his character, like a serious use for his character that they very much missed on. And once people were just like, I hate Paul, they they were just like, Okay, we're gonna write that into the book where everyone hates Paul. And I think you could have done more with that, you know. You either could have made him more hated or you could have made him he's a character, you know, like you could have done a million different things. You could have done a lot of things for sure. And I think seeing that conversation, it's like that makes me feel like, you know, it makes me feel for MJ a little bit just because like, you know, MJ was gone and you know, Peter was not there, and she had, you know, like when you're in a universe by yourself that's destroyed and you come across like another another person and you're not in a relationship and they're the opposite sex and you you grow closer to them, you're probably gonna be with them. Yeah, you know, like it's just it's probably gonna happen. Because you're lonely and you you need companionship, especially in a destroyed dystopian world.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:41

Right. And there's only so long in reality that you could probably hold out knowing that because she was not at the time like in a committed relationship with Peter at the time, anyways.

SPEAKER_06 1:14:50

No.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:50

So there's only so long you can hold out being in an altered dimension, thinking that you know, hey, rescue's going to come.

SPEAKER_06 1:14:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:59

And then it never does.

SPEAKER_06 1:15:00

Yeah, yeah. But um, but we go to um we go to Peter and MJ, they're walking through the park on this little date, and Peter like MJ leans her head on Peter's shoulders and and she's like, you know, but I really wish uh or no, uh Peter's talking about like how um if one person died because what I did or didn't do, I'd blame myself. I'd never stop. And then MJ's like, I know, but I really wish you could stop, Tiger. She she calls him Tiger. Your face is very sad.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:32

Well, I'm looking at I'm looking at the page that you're like if there is no like panels, like that could be a sweet page. Like, man, wow, Peter and MJ in the park, that's what we've wanted for. Oh, wait a minute, I'm reading the dialogue.

SPEAKER_06 1:15:45

Yeah, I I couldn't help but like I was really I was like, are they holding hands? Are they like are they holding hands? Are they like is it like my my brain was like, oh, oh, like it was the neurons were slowly activating, and I was like, Nope, it's not gonna be that way. Like they're gonna they're gonna cuck us. Like, you know, they're gonna do it. I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I can't, like I'm not I'm not falling for it. And um, you know, MJ goes into that with about herself and and and they hug, you know, they have uh there's this little monologue, MJ says, she says, Um, I was safe in my own world, thanks to you, but my nerves were jumping uh every 10 seconds. Paul was the only person who'd been there. Uh and even and even then we didn't work without an apocalypse, uh, without an apocalypse to focus on. So we're uh we stuck together for our kids, the kids who died who never existed. And all that pain was coiled up inside me, ready to explode on a hair trigger. I feel like sometimes uh you you got both barrels and you didn't deserve that, uh, Peter, you were hurting too. So she's like, I'm she's kind of relating herself to Peter because she's like, I know what you feel like, you know, and you know, and uh you know, it seems it seems like they're they're talking like, you know, hey, this is the beginning of our friendship. Let's bring our friendship back. Like we can we can start being friends again, which could possibly lead to more, but we we should start as being friends again. And they're both happy about that. They're like, Yeah, that's that's good. And and they're flirting, they're hugging, you know, she's leaning her head on his shoulder, he's touching her shoulder, like it very, you know, they're they're you know, the the Spider-Man editorial theme is dangling those keys in front of us again. And um finally we get Peter being like, you know, uh, but uh we gotta talk about something. And he's like, I gotta talk about your friend. Talking about the symbiote. And he's like, you know, let me let me have a talk. He says, he says, I need to have a one-on-one with your roommate. So they go in, they go behind a tree and he puts his mask on. That's so sweet. Because he's like, Well, I I have if someone sees me talking to Venom as a person, they're gonna just know that I'm Spider-Man, so I have to put my mask on, even though I still have my person clothes on too. And he's wanting to talk to the symbiote without MJ there, but MJ being bonded with the symbiote means that she's gonna hear everything anyway.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:02

I mean, I'm gonna be able to do it.

SPEAKER_06 1:18:02

So it's kind of yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:04

I the only Venom I've ever read is Donnie Case's, but I know that that is so dumb. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:18:11

And um the art's great. But they're talking, and you know, Peter talks to Venom and he's like, so I need to know, like, or he's he asks if MJ is listening, and Venom says, Uh, we can have private conversations if we want to. So, uh, what don't you want her to hear, Mr. Best Friend? Like he's jealous of Peter talking to MJ. And Peter says, Torment, he fell off the roof, right? Why do I feel like that's that's fell in quotes? And Venom says, We tried to grab him, couldn't quite reach. Um, too bad, so sad, the end. And Peter goes, You the stretchy arm, Venom, couldn't quite reach. You didn't think to shoot a web. And this is this really pissed me off when I read this. Venom says, Well, you know how it is, Spidey. We didn't want to pull the Gwen Stacy. And it's like, I'm not gonna get mad. What are you guys doing? Why are we doing this? What is the point? That's why would MJ Venom has never acknowledged that. Like, I'm sure he knows about it. I'm sure the symbiote knows about that, but Venom has never put one on one. And it's like, is that MJ? Is that Venom? That is something that would never be said.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:30

No, that's too far. That's way too far. Cheap shot.

SPEAKER_06 1:19:35

And uh Spider-Man throws up hunch, Venom catches it, and he just says, like, he fell, and now a lot of people are safe. So, like, what do you want to do about it? And Peter's like, MJ wouldn't do it, and even if she wanted to, but you, you are the lethal protector. Did you slow her down, make her hesitate? Like, he's blaming the symbiote for torment dying, you know. Which honestly, like this goes back to that thing where it's becoming a nothing thing, you know. Like you you literally said it's gonna be a big nothing thing, and it's like that had potential because it's like, what if it was MJ that made that choice? Right, like it should have been MJ that made that choice. Yeah, like Venom should be like, that was that was her choice. That wasn't me. You know, and Venom's kind of covering and he he leaves. So he he's he leaves and swings away. And uh MJ and Venom are talking back and forth, and um Venom's like, or MJ's like, you know, nice white lie you told him. Uh no such thing as private conversations while you're around, and then Venom's like, don't you start? Uh and then she says, that Gwen crack was low, uh Venom, she was my friend. I know, but if I'm and and Venom's the reason he made that was he's like, I'm I want to look like the bad guy, so he's mad at me, not you. And it's it's it's it's layers of confusion. It's like skip the mental gymnastics on this because like it it's it's dumb. It just it's a lot, it's it's stupid. But long story short, they go back to the apartment and MJ is like, well, Venom, since we're friends now and we're cool, and which I don't know how that makes sense, like we should let the bond fully take place. We should you should fully bond with me. And they fully bond, making the new Venom MJ look, which is she's she's got her red hair coming off the back of her head. She looks feminine, the symbiote looks feminine rather than masculine, as as it has looked. And she's got gold high heels that go all the way up to her knees. And then we get a knock at the door, and uh MJ runs to the door to see who it is, and it's it's my boy, Captain Alliance, from the 250 issue, and he is uh like I need your help to save the universe, and then it's to be continued. I've said it before, I've said it a billion times, I can't say it enough. This is just what what are we doing? You know, whatever, blah blah blah. This book sucks, blah, blah, blah. I'm still picking it up, blah, blah, blah. I'm part of the problem, blah, blah, blah.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:58

So you know, if uh wipes are expensive for daughters.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:05

If you want to let me borrow that issue.

SPEAKER_06 1:22:08

Yeah, here.

SPEAKER_07 1:22:08

You know what? I have two of them.

SPEAKER_06 1:22:09

You want the other one too? Um, I got the the magic cover because the magic cover did look cool. But I I will go into this. I do want to share this bit of news. Um, following this issue, we did get some inside look from Marvel about uh Queen in Black. Okay. That's coming out pretty soon. Actually, really soon, I think. Um, and uh this is giving oh, I don't know if I can actually pull it up. A poo. Long story short, we uh Marvel has said on their website that uh there is going to be a big decision made during Queen in Black where MJ has to either choose to save the Marvel universe or continue to be a symbiote hero. Or something like that. Okay. And Eddie Brock is also going to be faced with a choice on uh if he really wants to be bonded back or wants to go back to being a symbiote hero as well. So it kind of sounds like we're starting to put the pieces back together, putting the pieces in place to set up the end of this series and put everything back to normal in the next series. Because if you don't know Eddie Brock's still in prison, I think he'll be there until the Venom Unleashed book comes out with King King in Black or whatever, Queen in Black. Um I'm I'm ready for this to be over. That's all that's all I can say about it. I've said everything. Oh, thank you. Oh, we have it right here. So, um Clayton pulled it up because I don't have good internet here. Um the the article from Marvel.com uh says the newly revealed issues spotlight the long-awaited a long-awaited emergence of Venom World in Clean Queen in Black number four and five, a starting, a startling development of tease since the early days of Ewing's mind-bending run. As Earth is consumed by symbiotes, current Venom host Mary Jane Watson is forced to make a desperate choice, one that will shape both the fate of the Marvel universe and her future as a symbiote hero in Venom number 262. Meanwhile, Eddie Brock faces his own pivotal decision that redefines his role as a symbiote host in Queen in Black Venom and Chain number three, and both new defender squads unite for blah blah blah. It's a tie in stuff. Okay. Um, so it for bringing Venom World back, why that was a really dumb concept from his first run. It was the whole deal with like, oh, if the symbiote bonds with Dylan, then Venom World is gonna happen, which is literally just Earth with a Venom Venom eyes and a mouth. It's literally just ego if he was Venom on Earth. Or if the symbiote bonded with Eddie Brock, he would become his own version of Null. Those were the two outcomes. So we're still getting that because MJ's bonded with the symbiote. And I guess right, it makes perfect sense. Yeah, it makes sense. And you know, um, whatever. I have nothing to say. I'm I'm like I I'm still keeping my promise that if Al Ewing is still on this book by the end of Queen and Black, I'm done pulling it. I'm hopping off the book. Um, I'm just I'm not enjoying this anymore. It's it's getting kind of old and the like you know, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:04

I've seen Carlos Gomez, the artist, I've seen him make posts even like celebrating when Paul dies and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_06 1:25:12

It feels like the artist doesn't even really enjoy it. It feels like everyone on this book is just doing whatever. Like there is no, it's just like we've got to put the pieces in place to make this happen. Like Captain Alliance, he has nothing to do with Spider-Man or Venom or any like you could have pulled what bring sleeper back. Yeah, bring a character that's more symbiote related back, and you've got like this whole thing with like they're not fully bonded. Like, first of all, when did they become friends, the symbiote and venom? Because they never actually stated, like, oh, we're friends now. Like they like they're just they just decided to deciding that just so she can get another new look. This is her what? Like Venom has gone through what it had its all new Venom look with the gold spider, okay. Then Venom got a new look in um making itself look like Spider-Man.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:01

Yes, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:26:02

And then it went back to this, and now it's making itself look like MJ. Why are we going back and forth with this new look thing? Like, we're why are we changing the look every freaking other issue?

SPEAKER_02 1:26:11

He seems to me like they just have no idea what they want to do.

SPEAKER_06 1:26:14

It just feels like it's just again. This is every episode. I'm sorry. I'm trying to be better about that.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:21

Every episode.

SPEAKER_06 1:26:22

Every episode that I talk about Venom.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:25

Paul has FOMO, Venom sucks.

SPEAKER_06 1:26:28

Absolutely Batman's great. Paul has FOMO, Venom sucks. Like, I hate the book, but I'm still gonna keep buying. I just, I just I want to stick through it, man. Like, I I get I understand that it's time to be like it. Like if I don't like it, I should put hop off of it. I just want to stick through it. Because if it if it really ends, you know, if it does end soon, then it's like, hey, I made it through the the the dark, evil, dark tunnel. Yeah, I don't know, but I'm I'm very close to to hopping off of I'm hop close after this issue. I was like, yeah, I'm honestly pretty done. Because it's like it's they're they're teasing us with Venom and MJ. Or not Venom and MJ, sorry, they're teasing us with Peter and MJ again, and it's like I'm not falling for it. Right. Like it's honestly like I'm just like, yeah, yeah, yeah, whatever, whatever. Like it's almost like I'm starting to not want them to be together because it's just like it's not gonna happen. So you're just teasing us. So it's like, you know, whatever. That's Venom 258. It sucks. Don't don't buy this book. I didn't plan on it. I'm buying it so you don't have to. That's the title of every episode. I'm buying this book so you don't have to. It's my excuse. And it sucks because like um I'll I'll say this is just a little like this is a little um this I'm not gonna talk about it anymore.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:37

No, no, no, no, one more thing.

SPEAKER_06 1:27:38

No, the the uh this sucks because like I this is a little embarrassing. When it's like really it we it uh here where we live, it it came a really crazy storm yesterday, and I love stormy days because it reminds me of Venom, Donnie Kate's run, because every issue was just like it was like daytime but stormy, so it was like dark, right? And it was storming, and I was driving to do my other show, and while I was on my way, I was like, I miss Donnie Kate's Venom. And like I'm wanting to read it again. And it's like, I miss it. I miss it so much. I miss good Venom. Like I miss classic Venom and Eddie Brock Venom. And like, so it just, I don't know. He's my favorite character. And you know, going through reading that amazing run that was Donnie Kate's run, it's just so hard to believe that we are where we are now.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:22

You start you start driving, you hear.

SPEAKER_06 1:28:27

No!

SPEAKER_02 1:28:28

No!

SPEAKER_06 1:28:33

Actually, I think about um what's the song? Uh Everything in Its Right Place by Radiohead. That song is the embodiment of Donnie Kate's Venom run. I cannot change my mind. Like, um, so I think I'm gonna reread that run again, actually.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:45

You know, you know, you know, it's so funny. I I honestly think you reread that run every year.

SPEAKER_06 1:28:50

I think I read it like once or twice a year. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:52

Because two years ago when when we had, or last it was last year when me and my wife uh we had our bachelor party and uh and you were there and you had your venom bus. Yep, and while it was like two o'clock in the morning and we're all like super tired, I would just hear zzz and you pull out your venomus and you just start reading it.

SPEAKER_07 1:29:13

It's so good. It's so good. It's it's just it's like I gotta get my few pages in today.

SPEAKER_06 1:29:18

Venom Rex and then like Absolute Carnage and then King of Black are just the three best, like like it's just such a vibe. Like it's so like I was in New York, I was low-key when me and Elise went to New York last year. Um, it started to come a big storm, and we were in Times Square, and it felt like that first issue of Absolute Carnage. I was like, I was like, Elise, we're literally in Absolute Carnage right now. This is like the best thing in the world. Like, I was literally like, like, there's the dragon!

SPEAKER_07 1:29:44

Oh, take my picture.

SPEAKER_06 1:29:45

It's like null's null standing behind me. Guys, look, null's here.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:49

Symbiotes are literally invading me.

SPEAKER_06 1:29:52

Just like some like a symbiote with a spiral on its head, it's like about to kill me.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:56

And I'm just like, look at this. So uh on a totally random and unrelated note. Um, this is this is very random. We're sitting here talking, and my chair just broke. I saw you move it.

unknown 1:30:14

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_06 1:30:17

Just came off this chair. So, so what I'm hearing is this book is so bad. So, wait, Donnie Kate's book is so good that you literally you broke your chair out of the time.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:25

I broke my chair out of the excitement.

SPEAKER_06 1:30:26

Yeah, literally. So we we need to just read that again and do a page-by-page review for the next two years.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:31

Where did we where did he get that chair from?

SPEAKER_06 1:30:37

Um so yeah, that's Venom 258. Uh what it yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:41

It was so bad it broke the chair.

SPEAKER_06 1:30:42

It's so bad it broke the chair. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:44

Um, so we got to talk about Swamp Thing.

SPEAKER_06 1:30:46

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:47

Real quick.

SPEAKER_06 1:30:47

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:47

Uh again, one of our listeners asked us to talk about it.

SPEAKER_06 1:30:50

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:51

Um, I read it when it came out.

SPEAKER_06 1:30:52

You, I forgot, Mr.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:54

Slacker.

SPEAKER_06 1:30:54

I'm Slacker. It's okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:56

It's okay.

SPEAKER_06 1:30:56

I'm Slacker. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:57

I actually did an episode on it for the Isaiah 43 podcast. Oh, okay. Um so I talked about a little bit about what happens there. I recapped the issue in that, um, which was totally different. So if you normally listen to like my preaching, and then all of a sudden, like, here's a comic review and and everything. So that was a little bit different. It's a good one to do. It's a good one. Your other podcast. So Swamp Thing 1989, uh, just to recap real quick, is that it's a Swamp Thing issue from the 80s, yeah. That DC totally scrapped and cancelled because they were afraid of religious backlash. Uh that made the writer so mad he quit the run. Wow. He just quit DC. Wow.

SPEAKER_06 1:31:34

Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:35

Because he was like, hey, no, there's not going to be any backlash for this. It's good. Yeah. And they're like, no, they destroyed every issue, um, but they've decided to republish it now. I guess they're not afraid of the backlash or whatever. Swamp thing's just so popular that they decide they had to bring it back.

SPEAKER_06 1:31:51

That's crazy that they did it like in today's time. Because I feel like today it's a it honestly feels not that it's controversial, but it feels like people avoid stuff like that more nowadays than they did in the 80s. Right. You know what I mean? So it's like you said it was supposed to come out in the 80s. 1989, yeah. Yeah. So like it's a little weird that now they're publishing it. I mean, it's great. I mean, I I think I think that they should do more stuff like this more often. I think this kind of stuff is really great. Yeah. You know, it's different.

SPEAKER_02 1:32:17

So it it it's good and it's bad at the same time.

SPEAKER_06 1:32:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:32:20

Uh and without fully recapping the issue here, um, essentially Swamp Thing is going back in time and he goes back and he sees Jesus.

SPEAKER_04 1:32:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:32:30

Well, we also see at the same time a lot of demonic things. They make the it's really it's really dumb. They make the three wise men like servants of a demon, and they they pray to this they sacrifice to this demon, uh, asking the demon to destroy Jesus because he is good and he's going to undo everything that they have done. And the demon possesses a servant of the high priest who's sleeping with Mary Magdalene, which again we have it's just it's very uh unbiblical and not historically accurate.

SPEAKER_08 1:33:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:01

Um so again, I I review that in the podcast, talking about that, why that might be and stuff. Um, but the the main crux, the main focus of this issue is Swamp Thing sees Jesus. Uh he sees Jesus in the Garden of Gethsemane when he's praying. And my biggest problem is this book is heretical. Yeah. And I know you have a uh a fun experience with heresy.

SPEAKER_06 1:33:27

Yeah, I do have a fun experience with heresy.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:29

Um and it's not Halo. It's not Halo. Heretic. Arbiter. So so this issue actually deals with a heresy. Yeah. Um, and that heresy is called Gnosticism. It's a it's a uh a heresy that the church has condemned um since the very, very kind of beginning, the early uh 100s and 200s uh AD. And really, Gnosticism is built on two things. It's built on the fact that the material world is evil and that the everything spiritual is absolutely good. So the material bad, physical, uh physical bad, uh, and the spiritual instantly great. They also believe the other tenet of Gnosticism is that you achieve salvation through hidden secret knowledge. Okay, so with that in mind, we go into Swamp Thing 1989. We see Jesus in the Garden of Gethsemane, and Swamp Thing calls him an adept and a magician at one point. And and an adept and all that is certain language to indicate that Jesus is only perceived as God because he has a higher level of knowledge and understanding.

SPEAKER_08 1:34:42

Right.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:42

So and that's what Gnostics believe that Jesus um was not actually God incarnate, God who took on flesh. He was instead um somebody who just unlocked his highest potential because he knew the secrets and he knew this forbidden knowledge that no one else knew. Uh, and that we can achieve that too through yada yada yada.

SPEAKER_08 1:35:04

Right, right, right.

unknown 1:35:04

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:35:05

Well, that's a heresy. So this book is Gnostic heresy. Yeah. So it is kind of garbage for that. Yeah. Because and this is something I mentioned to you when we first initially start talking about it. Like a lot of people are celebrating this because of the good that this book does.

SPEAKER_08 1:35:18

Right.

SPEAKER_02 1:35:18

And this book does do a great thing. Uh, and it's and and the book ends with a swamp thing traveling the multiverse, and he sees the thing that holds the entire multiverse, not just the universe, not just planets, not just whatever. The entire multiverse who sustains all things is Jesus Christ.

SPEAKER_08 1:35:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:35:38

And that's that's awesome. That is something we would never see. Uh I thought in a comic ever. Yeah. That the thing that holds everything together is true in our our reality.

SPEAKER_06 1:35:47

What do you think? He's looking at the absolute universe. Uh, I don't touch that one. That one's scary. To purgatory with you. Uh we'll just put that one on the very end of the multiverse. We'll just put it out there.

SPEAKER_02 1:36:01

Um, again, I talk about this in in the Isaiah 43 podcast. I it's even titled Swamp Thing in the Christ who holds all things together is the title episode. And I talk about the Bible verses that actually support the fact that uh even Christ by his power is able to hold all things together. So I I talk about all that. Um, so again, not gonna rehash that. But the my problem with this issue is how much can we say this is a really good issue, this is a glorifying issue, this is a great thing to celebrate if we're getting our Lord wrong. If we're saying he's something that he's not, but he actually is this one thing. So we're saying he's he's unlocked he's achieved salvation for all people through this secret forbidden knowledge, yeah. And he's the one who sustains all things. Well, that that doesn't make sense. Um that's a heresy. Um you're you're so that's what I'm saying. Like, can we say this is a really good issue, even though we get the character wrong? Think of it like Venom, right? Right, right. Um you get at the end, maybe you get the cool moment, yeah, you know, but it gets the total character wrong. Yeah. Uh Venom, of course, is much, much lesser than Christ, but um, that's just the other comparison I have.

SPEAKER_06 1:37:09

I you know, I'm trying to think about it. I think it's exciting to have God in a comic. Yeah, it is. Especially something like Swamping, you know, where it's a very nature-driven comic. I think I I like there are things about it that I like, you know, it does show the crucifixion and it shows, you know, you actually mentioned when I was looking at it earlier, you're like, hey, it actually got it right because a lot of people say that he got crucified through his hands, but in reality he got through his wrists because that's the only way it would actually hold his weight. So, you know, I think I would like to see God. I I would like it to be more like I one of my favorite uh Spider-Man runs is uh J. Michael Stra is J. Michael Strazyski. Um his run where uh there's a few moments, it's where he fights what's the dude's name?

SPEAKER_02 1:37:54

Um Is it Ezekiel? Is it Ezekiel?

SPEAKER_06 1:37:58

Ezekiel's in the book. Yeah. Um I think of uh what's this? It's the it's the other bad guy. Anyway, um Morlin. No, not Morelin.

SPEAKER_02 1:38:05

No, Moreland's the vampire.

SPEAKER_06 1:38:06

Um Morbius is the vampire.

SPEAKER_02 1:38:09

Yeah, but Morlin is the vampire who's in um the Spider-Verse comic, the first Spider-Verse comic, because he has a family.

SPEAKER_06 1:38:16

I think that's him.

SPEAKER_02 1:38:17

Is it?

SPEAKER_06 1:38:18

I want to say it is. Okay, it might be. It might maybe not. I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 1:38:20

But like Because that's the run with Digger in it, right? Where he's the gangster and all of his body. J. Michael's against early 2000s, Spider-Man, right? That's what we're talking about. Yeah, okay. Yeah, that's a fantastic run.

SPEAKER_06 1:38:34

It's a very good run. And there's a few moments where he's like, he talks to God in the book. I I wish we'd have a lot more of that in comics, you know what I mean. And if like I guess books don't have to do the like they don't have to like it's cool to see like Swamp Thing being like, oh, it's you know, like Jesus is the center of the multiverse. Right. Um, and I think stuff like that being shit like oh be people being aware of that is cool. Right. Um, but the them getting things wrong is is kind of unf it's it sucks because it's like oh that you know, like you're so close. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um I the art's great. I think I think it being a like I wonder what this would have I wonder what people would have reacted to it when it if it did come out in 89.

SPEAKER_02 1:39:15

I do I do too. Um because you gotta think about what the culture was like in 1989. Um we were in the middle uh we're well, I guess we're towards the end of the satanic panic. Yeah. Uh are you familiar with that? Yes, yeah. Okay. So uh you know, evangel uh uh uh evangelists um had a really bad habit in the 80s of calling everything demonic. Yeah um He-Man was called demonic. Um a lot of things were called demonic.

SPEAKER_08 1:39:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:39:40

Um so uh the Dungeons and Dragons. Dungeons and Dragons were the people demonic. Um so a lot of things were called demonic that I I I I don't think really were.

SPEAKER_07 1:39:52

Right.

SPEAKER_02 1:39:52

There are demons in this. They do twist the story of scripture to make the three wise men servants of a demon. They do make Mary Magdalene uh a prostitute, they do make this servant of the high priest who gets his ear caught off, and historic and scripturally we call him Malchus, um he is possessed by this demon. And Jesus defeats this demon. Um, but so there are demons. So I I think if this came out in 1989, this would have just been probably what happened in the comics in the 50s all over again. Yeah. Are you familiar with what happened with the comics in the 50s? Uh the seduction of the innocent, and people were saying that comics cause people to be violent, cause kids to be violent, and uh it had witchcraft.

SPEAKER_06 1:40:39

Wow. We de we got that we got there again with video games after a while. Yeah, yeah. That's wild, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:40:45

Uh everything just goes, you know, in in a circle. But so I think there would have definitely been some kind of backlash, but comics weren't popular like they are now. They were big, sure, but they weren't like they are now. Yeah. I think it would have if there was a controversy, it would have probably died.

SPEAKER_08 1:41:00

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:41:01

Today it was like today when this comic, not literally today, yeah, but in today's day and age, when this comic came out, people talked about more so the fact that this comic has been locked in a vault for 40 years and we're finally releasing it. Yeah. And then the Christian Instagram accounts were like, hey, it shows Jesus as the sinner of the multiverse.

SPEAKER_08 1:41:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:41:21

Okay, well, that's really all people talked about. Yeah. Nobody talked about the demon stuff, nobody talked about it.

SPEAKER_06 1:41:26

Yeah, they just kind of looked through it's honestly like they flipped through it and they were like, Oh, yep, this is great. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:41:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:41:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:41:31

So that's probably what have happened in the 80s too. It would have probably just died down.

SPEAKER_06 1:41:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:41:36

Um, but I don't know. I'm I'm curious.

SPEAKER_06 1:41:40

No, I I is it something you want to like? Do you still because I know you didn't get a physical copy. Do you still want a physical for it after seeing all this? I guess that's how we'll rate it beyond the bullet since it's not like a pull list.

SPEAKER_02 1:41:52

I want to tell you something. Now, now that I have a daughter and I've been a dad for three weeks, yeah. Um, I start thinking about comics not so much in terms of I I think comics uh th that I want to buy physical are no longer, oh man, I've gotta have this issue, I've gotta have it. I think of it, what do I want to pass it down to my daughter? And so I'm gonna say no. I wouldn't want a physical issue uh of this um because I want her to know who Jesus actually is. And if she ever asks, if she grows up and she does like comics, um I'll tell her about this, and if she wants it, I'm not gonna say no, you can't have it. Right. Um I'm just gonna would explain, hey, this is why I didn't buy this issue. Um I want you to know Jesus as he actually is, as your Lord and Savior, who was God, who came in the flesh.

SPEAKER_08 1:42:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:42:45

Um I want you to know that. But if you want to read this, it's a cool moment. I have got no problem with you reading it. Yeah. Um, so that's how I feel. Um, no, I don't want a physical issue because especially when she's young, probably not a comic for she needs to read anyways. Right, right, right. Um, because you never know, you know, she could be four or five. She could open up my my comic boxes and just pull out a random issue and be like, oh well, well, dad, I read a comic book that has the demons in it. Well, that's not what I want for you.

SPEAKER_06 1:43:12

That's funny enough.

SPEAKER_02 1:43:13

I want you to read Nort with this dingling.

SPEAKER_06 1:43:17

Funny enough, my dad did that with me. Uh, guess what cop book he did it with? It was not Venom.

SPEAKER_02 1:43:22

Was it like what Batman and Arkham Asylum or something?

SPEAKER_06 1:43:25

Close. Uh it was the killing joke.

SPEAKER_03 1:43:29

How much better?

SPEAKER_06 1:43:30

We we sat and he he he was like, he let me look through his copy of the killing joke, which I have now. I I own it. Yeah. Um, but uh, and he covered up Barbara. I remember he covered up Barbara Gordon laying there dead. Yeah um and or laying there shot, and he was like, You you don't need to see that. And then one night I snuck into his comic collection because I was like, I want to see it without his hand over. And I was like, That's it. Is I you know I got I was like, I couldn't even remember if that was what he covered up. I was like, that looks like the pay, but that's not that bad. It's just she just there's just a little bit of blood and she's just laying there dead. Yeah, it's not that bad.

SPEAKER_02 1:44:02

So so going back to Beta Ray Bill this morning when I was reading it with her, yeah. There is a scene where it's like they're about to have Beta Ray Bill and Lady Sif are about to have sex. Well, I didn't know that was coming up, and I'm reading it, and I see like she kisses him and takes his shirt off. I'm like, okay, we're gonna just Okay, here we're back with the story. Oh, look at so crazy.

SPEAKER_03 1:44:24

What did the panel say? Oh, it just said brief intermission.

SPEAKER_06 1:44:28

Yeah, it just isn't advertised. There are 20 ads, you know, it's not no big deal. Don't worry about that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:44:34

Um, but you actually gave uh Aurora before she was even born a spider girl um trade.

SPEAKER_06 1:44:40

I wanted to get her a little comic book. I was like, what would be a good comic? And I'm like, spider, let's get her spider girl. Yeah, you know, something she can she can look into.

SPEAKER_02 1:44:47

We did read it the other day, um, but she was only like a week old at that point.

SPEAKER_06 1:44:50

Yeah, so she's just like what are you what are you saying?

SPEAKER_02 1:44:58

But so uh to answer your question, no, I don't want it physical. No, that's okay. I I think of it more of what do I want her to be able to read in the future.

SPEAKER_06 1:45:05

That's interesting. I'm I that's a that's a really that's a way of looking at it that I never would have thought about. It's like you're now thinking of like what would I want her to have? Yeah. Because as a kid, she's gonna grow up, and if she does get into comics, she's gonna start looking through and being like, Can I add this?

SPEAKER_02 1:45:19

Yeah, she's gonna go through my collection before she. I mean, of course, I'll take her to the comic book store. Right, right, right. But she's gonna go through my collection.

SPEAKER_06 1:45:26

Your collection is gonna be the first. We need to use some Donnie Kate's venom in there.

SPEAKER_02 1:45:30

Stat! Here, just take my whole collection. You can just have it.

SPEAKER_06 1:45:33

There you go.

SPEAKER_02 1:45:34

Uh, so yeah, and that totally changed has changed my perspective on comics.

SPEAKER_06 1:45:38

That's really cool. I like that. Yeah. Well, there's one more thing to talk about for our episode. We had a trailer drop for Spider-Man brand new day. And I know we talked about the first trailer a while back. We did get a new one. This is this is exciting. This is um, and I'm gonna I'm gonna go ahead and say this first first and foremost before we start talking about the trailer. Venom is not in this movie. I am I keep getting things on my Instagram where I keep seeing people going, guys, Venom is gonna be in the movie. Like his eyes turn black. That's literally the symbiote. And it's like, no, it's not. He's mutating into man spider. Like, it's not, it's not that. And then uh he did an interview, Tom Holland did an interview, and he was talking about Spider-Man's relationship, and he's like, Well, they have like a symbiotic relationship, and he went, Oh, he said symbiotic? Do you know symbiote? Do you know who else has Venom? Venom's in the movie. It's confirmed. And it's like, no, he's not. And they've also been talking about uh Zendaya and Tom Holland's outfits that they wore on the red carpet. Um, it's a it's uh Tom Holland's wearing a black sweater with like a it's like a white, it's got like a white collar, like it's a normal sweater, and then Zendaya is wearing a uh she's wearing a black shirt with like a spider on it, like it's got like a white spider like crawling on it almost. It's not a venom spider, it's just a white spider shape, right? Yeah, and people are like they don't just wear their outfits like it it this is planned, it's gotta be venom, and I'm like, I want venom in this more than anybody else. Like I would love it if Venom was in this, or if the black suit was in this or whatever. It ain't happening. No, like they're gonna advertise it that way.

SPEAKER_02 1:47:09

Yeah, but with all they've released so far, we've seen Hulk, we've seen Punisher. I mean, come on, this is virtually Albin but confirmed Gene Gray. I yeah, yeah. And that sucks, man.

SPEAKER_06 1:47:23

Yeah, uh, go ahead. Well, I'm no well, I was just all I was gonna say is it it really sucks because like they're hiding this main villain. It's gotta be Gene Gray.

SPEAKER_02 1:47:30

It has to be.

SPEAKER_06 1:47:31

Like, there's no way, and it's it's kind of like we already know. I don't know. I hope it's a bigger twist.

SPEAKER_02 1:47:35

I hope it is too. I hope uh um because you know I've seen people say, look, look, it has to be Gene because she causes everybody to freeze, and that's exactly what Professor X does in X-Men One. He causes everybody to freeze. And I'm like, oh yeah, I guess so. Maybe.

SPEAKER_06 1:47:53

Yeah. Random, random thing. Okay. What if it's what if it's uh Peter and MJ's daughter and she's from the future and it's a Mephisto thing, and they're doing Spider-Man literally brain doing one more day. Ugh, people would be pissed. It would be so funny.

SPEAKER_02 1:48:11

Tom Holland's like, I've done a lot of research into what people want for this movie. Yeah, and they want their one more day to be ruined.

SPEAKER_07 1:48:20

That's that's what they seem to really like. It's like, are you guys deaf?

SPEAKER_06 1:48:25

Um, but um, this trailer has a really awesome opening. Yes, it opens with with Peter. He's like flying through the air and he lands on a car, and he's like, What is happening to me? Like something's going on with his powers, and Scorpion's there, and he slams his tail up against him, and he's like, Like, oh, it's finally nice to kick your ass, Spider-Man. And his eyes go black, and he grabs his tail, yanks him over, slams him on the ground, and then grabs his tail again and flips him into a police car that's moving, flipping the police car. And I'm like, oh crap, that would be a great black suit scene. Yeah. Straight up. Like that would be awesome. Just like just you mentioned earlier.

SPEAKER_03 1:49:02

I told you somebody said Scorpion's waited 10 years just to get his butt kicked by the Spider-Man.

SPEAKER_06 1:49:08

It's funny, Matt Gargan's always kind of been just the kind of loser of Spider-Man villains, you know? Yeah, like he's always just he sucks. Like he's just he's such a crappy villain. Like, Scorpion's a cool villain, but he just Matt Gargan sucks.

SPEAKER_03 1:49:22

Hill and Shocker.

SPEAKER_07 1:49:24

Shocker gets back here, Shocker! Shocker!

SPEAKER_06 1:49:29

I'll never forget that.

SPEAKER_07 1:49:31

You can't just give me I'll chase you to the edge of the earth!

SPEAKER_06 1:49:36

Dude, I thought Shocker said that when I was a kid. I didn't think that was Peter, I thought that was Shocker. And watching it as a I'm like, that's that's Peter. It's crazy, bro.

SPEAKER_03 1:49:45

Like, it's really messing with his head. That's my chair.

SPEAKER_06 1:49:48

Oh, your chair fell off again. Oh, there it was. Chair's broken. Chair couldn't handle it. He's like, I'm out of this conversation. I'm done.

SPEAKER_03 1:49:57

You guys have lost me.

SPEAKER_06 1:50:02

But yeah, we get we get that's what Spider-Man does in Scorpio. Yeah, that's what it sounded like when he hit the police car. Um but yeah, so we get we get them we get them fighting. He he he's so clearly the overall thing of this trailer is something is going on with Peter, he's losing control. He he's mutating, which is causing this anger to come out of him, and um he's he's getting carried away with his powers. Right. I hope he turns into Man Spider. We don't know. I guess we won't know. Um, but we get um actually you know what you you take it a little bit more.

SPEAKER_02 1:50:37

So, real quick with Manspider. Did you never finish Spider Noir, did you?

SPEAKER_06 1:50:41

I'm not there yet.

SPEAKER_02 1:50:41

I watched I watched Spider Noir. Man Spider is in it, though it's a little bit different than what I expected.

SPEAKER_06 1:50:46

I've seen the the the I've seen the character. Okay, it's like a mute yeah, because I mean it's in the trailer and it's like a mutated person. I haven't well I'm getting there. I'm slowly, I'm catching up very slowly. I'm working on it.

SPEAKER_02 1:50:57

I finished it. It's good. I like it. We talked about it a little bit. Uh yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:51:01

The first three, I've watched the first three two episodes like four times now because like I started watching it by myself and now I'm watching it with Elise. I've I've just watched the first two episodes on repeat. Yeah. So now I'm getting into episode three, which is new. So hopefully from this point forward, we'll move through it really quick. I need to get on it really bad because I've just had not been doing good with watching stuff.

SPEAKER_02 1:51:18

No, you're good. So so, anyways, I bring up Spider Noir because because many spider kind of shows up. But um, yeah, so uh correct me if I'm wrong. So we see him go to Bruce Banner uh and he's saying he's talking about all this different hey, I've heard you talked about re like radiation, being able to control the radiation and what that does, that kind of research, and uh how can you suppress the bad but keep the good? Yeah, and Bruce Banner's response is like why would you want to do that? How could you con how do you determine what's good and what's bad? Yeah. Um, which I thought that was interesting.

SPEAKER_06 1:51:54

That was cool. And he's like, You're not one of my students, are you? Yeah, he's starting to figure something out.

SPEAKER_02 1:51:59

Right. Uh we see we see Bruce transform into Gray Hulk.

SPEAKER_06 1:52:04

Yes. He's got a little tone of green.

SPEAKER_02 1:52:06

Yeah. Uh and he Spider Man's like, I didn't know you could get that big. Like thunderclaps.

SPEAKER_06 1:52:13

He thunderclaps, yeah. He looks scary. He does. Like, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:52:16

That's good. That's what I wanted. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:52:18

But we we get we get Hulk, we get the hand.

SPEAKER_02 1:52:20

We get the hand, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:52:21

The hand, and there's a the big fight within. This is this movie's got a lot going on.

SPEAKER_02 1:52:25

Yeah, yeah. It's it's the longest Spider-Man movie. It's been confirmed to be the longest Spider movie. Two and a half hours. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:52:30

I've already got my tickets, I'm very excited.

SPEAKER_02 1:52:32

I I I we talked about this before we recorded. But uh I showed the trailer to my wife when it came out. We watched it together. Yeah. And uh she's holding our baby, and she turns after the trailer finishes, she turns and looks at her and says, Daddy's gonna leave us to go watch this with Uncle Paul. You are correct.

SPEAKER_00 1:52:53

Well, glad you know. I'm glad we've made that aware.

SPEAKER_02 1:52:57

We're cool with that.

SPEAKER_07 1:52:57

So cool, that works.

SPEAKER_02 1:52:59

Um, but yeah, uh, so we we don't really see a whole lot of punisher in this trailer. Um, so but I've heard he has uh he probably has a bigger role than Holtman, I would assume. We see this character, we still don't know who she is. Damage control, they tell Peter that she's a dangerous threat. Um, we don't know who she is. They can't even see they can't see the they don't know, and Keith David is rumored to be Jackal.

SPEAKER_06 1:53:28

That would be cool. Um his voice is in it. And there's a little uh during the party scene at MJ's place or whatever, yeah. Um, when that guy's like rising her up, there's a keg, like a beer keg on the table that says Jackal. Oh really? It's like Jackal beer or something. Yeah, yeah. People are like, Jackal's in the movie, and Venom's in the movie, and Carnage is coming.

SPEAKER_02 1:53:49

Like I've seen I've seen people say, if this is Paul, I'm walking out of the theater.

SPEAKER_06 1:53:54

Dude, it might just be. Dude, they might they wouldn't. No. It looks like it could be Jackal, though. It could be. Like, that's what or what's his name? Who who's jack who is Jackal?

SPEAKER_02 1:54:05

Jackal, all I know Jackal from is the clone conspiracy by uh Dan Slot, where he brings back Mary Jane. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:54:11

He has all the clones, but he has a a name, like a real name. I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 1:54:15

I'm I'm a horrible kind of thing. I hate Spider-Man. He's not even that cool. I've never even read a Spider-Man comic.

SPEAKER_07 1:54:23

Right, right, yeah, yeah. So reviewing all these Spider-Man books.

SPEAKER_02 1:54:28

Um we see we see Mary Jane get rizzed up. Yeah. Uh we see um uh Ned is looking into who Spider-Man is.

SPEAKER_06 1:54:37

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:54:38

He's got a spider tracker.

SPEAKER_06 1:54:39

Yep. Um trying to figure out I I've got dad brain, so yeah, you're gonna have to try to figure out who he is and like how he's yeah, trying to figure out, yeah. Um we also get um uh dude the swinging scenes in this movie look great. Dude, it looks great. His suit looks great. It it just every the more shots we see of Spider-Man, it's like we're getting a lot more swinging, a lot more action. That was something about the home, the homecoming home home series that I didn't like was that um the guy who directed it, um what was his name? John Watts, he purposely was like, We see too much Spider-Man swinging scenes in every movie, we need less of that, and it's like why? He literally said that. He said he said that yeah, he said he wanted to make these movies very different. So he's like, I want to put Spider-Man in situations that he's never been in, um, and also do less swinging scenes. And people were like, but we like the swing scenes. And he's like, Okay, I'll do it, and he did it in uh far from home just a little bit. But yeah, and I don't know. I'm the the he actually, funny enough, John Watts, uh the director of this movie, reached out to John Watts and was like, Hey, do you have any advice for me going into this Spider-Man film? And John Watts said, Any web swinging stuff, uh, do it CGI. It's not worth doing it practical. It's just not worth it. And he went, Okay, and he did it all practical because it looks way better. And it does, it look, it looks amazing, it looks so good. Um, I'm very excited to see, like, just I'm just I'm really excited for this movie. Like, I'm it's it's gonna look really good. I hope the story isn't too crazy, and I hope like I I you know I want to know who the villain is because if it is just Gene Gray, like I feel like I already know what's gonna happen. Like, I don't feel like there's a lot of new exciting surprises in this film because of Gene Gray. Now, if Spider-Man becomes Man Spider and that's kind of the finale of the movie is him being the villain himself, that would be a cool surprise.

SPEAKER_02 1:56:34

I saw somebody say it what exactly what you're talking about. Like, I I I've watched this trailer 500 times, I still don't know who the villain in this movie is. Somebody called it Depression.

SPEAKER_06 1:56:43

It's just depression. Yeah, Peter is the villain.

SPEAKER_02 1:56:47

Um, yeah, I mean, you really don't know. I mean, the hand, what do they have to do with any of the things? Yeah, the hand is involved, yeah. Could be the villain, but I don't think they're gonna make him the villain, quote unquote.

SPEAKER_06 1:56:58

Well, if you listen in the trailer, uh it's Mark Ruffalo's voice, and he's talking to Spider-Man as if I this mystery Gene Gray character or whoever is taking over his mind. Right. Because she says something like not me, but but he can, or something like that. Yeah, you know, she's she takes him over. Yeah, so I don't know. I'm very cuz you know, because Sadie Sink, who's playing this character, has done some reviews and they're like, Yeah, your character's a mystery, and she's like, Yeah, you know, we're keeping it really under wraps. I just I really character's a mystery. I I don't know. I just I'm a little nervous because it feels like everybody called it already.

SPEAKER_02 1:57:35

Yeah, but you know what I mean. I almost feel like it's not gonna be Gene. And if it is Gene, they're gonna do some twists, like, oh yeah, sorry, my name is J G or something. J G. Like they did with Michelle Jones.

SPEAKER_06 1:57:49

Yeah, yeah, yeah. JG. J G. Uh Ginny Green. My name is Ginny, Jenny Green.

SPEAKER_02 1:57:58

What's that color? Green. Wait, say that again. Say that. Say that again. Say that again.

SPEAKER_06 1:58:04

It's fantastic. Um, but I'm excited about this. It looks good, and um, we'll have to go watch it. Yeah, we're definitely gonna need to go watch it. I'm going, I'm going to Regal the first time in Knoxville because they have the better popcorn bucket. They've announced all their popcorn buckets. One of them, it's the Cinemark one, is so cool. It's his hand thhipping, and the web is coming out, and that's where the bucket is. And the straw, there's like a like a single web line coming out of that, and that's the straw, and it's popcorn and a drink holder.

SPEAKER_02 1:58:31

That's cool.

SPEAKER_06 1:58:31

But it's a Cinemark exclusive, and there's no Cinemarks here. That. Unfortunately.

SPEAKER_02 1:58:35

Which I've seen one, it's a building, and Spider-Man's on the side of the building.

SPEAKER_06 1:58:38

That one's a regal one. Yeah. Okay. So if you want one, I'll grab it for you. Um, I'm gonna get the I'm gonna get the head because it's his head and it's the eyes. Um, it's not like the head, it's like a bucket that looks like his face.

SPEAKER_02 1:58:49

It's like the Wolverine from Deadpool. It's like it's massive pulled up.

SPEAKER_06 1:58:53

Did you see those? Someone made one of that in miles. It was like, I was like, Yes!

SPEAKER_07 1:58:58

I need this. Get this on my desk. Where's the Venom popcorn bucket for this movie?

SPEAKER_06 1:59:03

I'm just gonna take a picture of the Venom popcorn bucket from the Venom movie and go leaked Spider-Man brand new day popcorn bucket.

SPEAKER_02 1:59:10

You should make it like super grainy, like all those leaking.

SPEAKER_06 1:59:14

I'll just screenshot it over and over again for like a thousand times until it's just like leaked Spider-Man brand new day popcorn bucket, AMC exclusive. This looks like Venom. And it's just it is it's just the Venom movie popcorn bucket. Dude, it would I blow up. I might do that just to see what happens. I might, I'm tempted just to be the I'm tempted to be the bad guy. Guys, comment if you think I should do that and absolutely mess with everybody's heads who think venom will be in this film.

SPEAKER_02 1:59:40

You know, if I ever stop posting on the comic nation, I'm gonna hand it over to you and I want you to turn it into a troll account.

SPEAKER_06 1:59:48

Just like I'll just go in there and be like, Ally Wings Venom's awesome. Unfortunately, like there are people who say that. There are people who really like his run, and I just wanna like what's wrong with you?

SPEAKER_03 1:59:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:59:59

Are you are you even a fan? Are you even a real fan? Like, do you even read comic books, bro? Probably not. They're like, well, the Venom movie.

SPEAKER_01 2:00:09

It's it's um, well, according to the lore in the Venom movie, uh if Eddie Brock is not Tom Hardy, then it's not actually really Venom.

SPEAKER_06 2:00:20

Yeah, the Tom Hardy is Venom. Like, for sure, he's the best Venom actor ever.

SPEAKER_02 2:00:25

I I like Topher Great.

SPEAKER_06 2:00:27

I don't know who I like at this point. I just like the comic book one. Fine, I'll do it myself. I'll do it myself. It's me holding the Venom rights in my hand.

SPEAKER_02 2:00:38

Uh, but yeah, that was the trailer. It looks good. I'm I'm excited to watch it. Um, that will probably be the first movie I go watch. Uh honestly, that might that and Clayface.

SPEAKER_06 2:00:48

Uh Clayface is I'm so excited for it still.

SPEAKER_02 2:00:51

Might be the only movies I go to theaters to watch this year.

SPEAKER_06 2:00:53

Really?

SPEAKER_02 2:00:54

Uh yeah.

SPEAKER_06 2:00:55

You're not gonna go Oh yeah, well, yeah, you're not seeing Supergirl. We talked about that earlier.

SPEAKER_02 2:00:58

No, I I I want to see Supergirl.

SPEAKER_06 2:01:00

Is it because she has an earring, Clayton?

SPEAKER_02 2:01:03

Yeah. Garbage.

SPEAKER_06 2:01:05

Yeah, that's so inaccurate.

SPEAKER_02 2:01:06

If you're not wearing a an apron and she's not in the kitchen, I don't want it.

SPEAKER_06 2:01:12

Did you not do you not know what I'm talking about? Yeah, I know. Okay, I was gonna say people are mad because if for those of you listening who don't know, people are mad because um in the poster she has earrings and they're like, Well, if her skin is impenetrable, then how does she have earrings? And it's like, and James Gunn actually came out and he was like, Well, the same reason she gets drunk, she went to a planet close to a red sun and she got her ears pierced because she's ghetto. Not ghetto, she's gangster. She's cool like that. She's hip.

SPEAKER_02 2:01:38

Well, I I bring up the I bring up the the whole thing with being in the kitchen because um Millie Alcock, the girl who plays uh Supergirl, has said that if the movie flops basically that it's because of uh Christian dads who are are Christian dads of four who just can't uh appreciate a woman in power or something like that.

SPEAKER_06 2:02:00

Interesting.

SPEAKER_02 2:02:00

And I'm like, I don't think that's the problem. I think if it flops, just Supergirl's just not that popular of a character. She's got one good story in comics.

SPEAKER_08 2:02:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:02:09

Like I think the story I think the movie could be good. I'm I and I am excited to watch it. Um, but it's just I've got a baby, I've got a family.

SPEAKER_05 2:02:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:02:19

Um you are a dad. I I literally need three more kids, is what you need. I'm literally a Christian dad. Yeah, you're a Christian dad.

SPEAKER_05 2:02:24

Oh gosh. Oh no. You are Christian dad.

SPEAKER_02 2:02:26

I am a white Christian dad. I am the worst.

SPEAKER_07 2:02:29

I am the worst to watch this movie.

SPEAKER_02 2:02:32

They don't want me going to the show. Uh but no, I will I will watch it. It's just it's just gonna have to be when it comes to HBO. Um, Spider-Man, I'll go watch Spider-Man, I'll go watch Clayface because I told you I would. I'm so excited for Clayface. And then Avengers Doomsday, honestly.

SPEAKER_06 2:02:46

Oh yeah, that comes out this year. I forgot about that.

SPEAKER_02 2:02:48

I keep it. I keep forgetting I keep forgetting because I don't really know if I'm that excited about it.

SPEAKER_06 2:02:53

I'm not really they only dropped the one trailer and it's just kind of Well, it's the four trailers. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:02:58

The Cap, the Thor, the X-Men, and then the Black Panther and Fantastic. Oh, I guess it is, yeah. I just I I don't know.

SPEAKER_06 2:03:05

I don't know. I don't know enough about it. I haven't seen enough. They're really keeping things secret, which I guess is cool.

SPEAKER_02 2:03:11

Um some say there's like a secret war going on in Sun Marvel.

SPEAKER_06 2:03:15

Now I will say, if the symbiote ain't in that movie, I will be mad. Because they're there that is the best, that's the that's the only way you can like if you they bruh. That's all I gotta say.

unknown 2:03:25

Bruh.

SPEAKER_06 2:03:27

Well, that was the end of the thing. Yeah, that's the other symbol. Y'all know where I'm going with this. Y'all know, y'all know. Y'all get that one. That one's justified.

SPEAKER_02 2:03:33

Yeah, that one that one is because that's when they introduced the symbol.

SPEAKER_06 2:03:35

That's when they introduced the symbiote, yeah. So if it ain't in there, I won't be pissed.

SPEAKER_02 2:03:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 2:03:39

I'm gonna be sad, I'm gonna be sad. I'm gonna be very sad. I'm gonna be like Clayton. Actually, I'm getting mine re-graded right now. Uh yeah. Very excited. I got the new uh black suit label on the top. Oh, it's gonna look so pretty.

SPEAKER_02 2:03:48

What it what was it originally graded at?

SPEAKER_06 2:03:49

9.8.

SPEAKER_02 2:03:50

9.8.

SPEAKER_06 2:03:51

So Yes, sir. I bought it for uh 180 schmeckels back in the day. Wow. Because that's now it's like do you know how much that book's worth at a 9.9? Like $650.

SPEAKER_01 2:04:00

Oh my gosh, dude.

SPEAKER_06 2:04:01

It shocked me. I was like, oh my gosh. I was I was scared to send it off because it it was in um it was in a really the old, old CGC cases. Yeah, so they're flimsy, they're not really that strong. Um, for those of you who collect comic books, if you know CGC um just as an example, you know how like if you look at the top of the CGC grade, it's got like a little label to show what it is if you're flipping through a box full of them. Right. That is it's glued on the outside of the case. It's not like the new ones, it's on the inside. Oh, okay. Yeah, that's how old this case is. And it was it it cracked on the top behind the grade label, so they could just re-case it for not like they don't have to re-grade it or anything. Right. Um, but there is always a chance that something could happen in in grading where it could get damaged, and if something happens, then unfortunately it is worth it. Are you worried? I'm terrified actually. I'm very scared because it's like I bought that a 9.8, and it's like now seeing how much it's worth, I'm like, I need it to be more protected, but I have to take the risk to make it more protected. It comes back out of the 10. Well, and also I hear oh my god, oh my I'd be like, that's a great mistake. You know what? I'll take it. This just turned into a thousand dollar book. Um, but no, they uh uh what was it? They um I think they have a policy where if your book gets damaged, they'll actually pay you the value of what it of how much it was before it got damaged and then still grade it and send it back to you. Right. So at least I'll make, you know, like I mean heck, I can just buy it buy a new one at that point. Um, but um it'll be fine. Yeah, it'll be cool. But uh it's got the Spider-Man, the Secret Wars label on it, which it was like eight dollars to add that to my order. So I was like, shoot, yeah, I'll do it.

SPEAKER_02 2:05:30

Right.

SPEAKER_06 2:05:30

Um thanks to Nirvana Comics for sending that out for me.

SPEAKER_02 2:05:33

It should still say like first appearance of alien symbiosis.

SPEAKER_06 2:05:36

It'll say it on the back. Okay. It'll be on the back of it. Because I was wondering where that would be and when you Yeah, it's on the back. Okay. And what's it say, like first appearance of it doesn't say first appearance, it says uh origin of the alien symbiote that would eventually become Venom. Because technically the first appearance of the black suit is Amazing Spider-Man 252. They changed it, yeah, because that that has a prior that released first. Okay. Which I have that too, signed.

SPEAKER_02 2:06:03

Uh man, I was gonna ask you. Oh, I saw a video real quick before we wrap up today. Uh I saw a video that said there are only three more MCU movies uh before they reboot and it's no longer the same MCU it was that we were growing up with.

SPEAKER_06 2:06:20

What is Spider-Man?

SPEAKER_02 2:06:21

Spider-Man and then Doomsday and then Secretary Wars.

SPEAKER_06 2:06:24

There's nothing else in between.

SPEAKER_02 2:06:26

As far as I know, no. Which would make sense because whatever happens in Doomsday, they can't do a movie in between. Because if they did a movie in between, then it's it could potentially mess with the timeline, unless it was a prequel.

SPEAKER_06 2:06:41

They did it with like Captain Marvel. Right. You know, during Infinity War and Endgame.

SPEAKER_02 2:06:45

I think there's still be shows, but I don't think there's any movies coming out.

SPEAKER_06 2:06:50

It's weird thinking about it rebooting. That's a weird thought. But I think they should take a break.

SPEAKER_02 2:06:55

I think if when Secret Wars happens, but that sucks because if he gets the black suit, then it'll just It'll be like what they did with Cap's Cap picking up Thor's hammer. He'll get the black suit, he'll have a really cool scene with it. Um with everybody from the multiverse who's ever existed ever from all time, who's ever played a superhero ever in anything. Jamie Foxx will be spawn in this movie.

SPEAKER_06 2:07:21

There's rumors that uh uh that Carnage will be in it from Venom 2. Really? Yeah, there's a rumor that it's uh William or what was his name? I almost said Willem Defoe. It's not Willem Defoe at all. It's Green Goblin. Uh she's Spider-Man.

SPEAKER_01 2:07:35

I have this symbol.

SPEAKER_06 2:07:40

Oh god. Woody Harrelson. Woody Harrelson, that's it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:07:44

Um Woody Harrelson's an interesting character. He is. We're we're getting off on tape.

SPEAKER_06 2:07:47

We are we are so sorry. But um, but yeah, so I guess we're looking forward to the movie scene. Absolute Batman 21 was great. Transformers 33 was great. Uh Dork sounds really fun. Sounds fun. Uh Venom 258 sucked as per usual. Uh Swamp Thing from 1989 was heresy. But also good. But also interesting, good. Yeah. Yeah. Uh and then brand new day, very exciting. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:08:07

So we are thankful that you have joined us for this episode as we've returned. Uh, hopefully we'll be back in a week or two.

SPEAKER_06 2:08:14

Uh yeah, week or two. Uh Absolute Batman 22 is the next one.

SPEAKER_02 2:08:18

Yeah, yep, yeah. Absolute Batman 22, or three weeks, I guess. Yeah. Could two to three weeks. We'll be somewhere around there. Um, dang, that'll that's crazy to think about. Yep. Um, man. Uh well that week, Transformers 34 also comes out. So that's gonna be.

SPEAKER_06 2:08:33

So we're just gonna have another big week then. Yeah, because Venom comes out next week, I think. So I'll have a Venom. Oh gosh, dang it.

SPEAKER_02 2:08:38

And that'll be what, the week before Brandon Day comes out? I think so. Oh my gosh. So we'll have a we'll have a big week. That's cool. That's a lot going on. Uh X-Men will have come back on, X-Men 97.

SPEAKER_06 2:08:49

Oh, yep. Um, yeah, so and then hopefully I'll have finished Spider Noir by then. Yep. Um we can talk about it because we do need to talk about it, and I need to review Null. I haven't read the null books. I need to read it so I can review it. Because Derek said it's good. So I need to see.

SPEAKER_02 2:09:05

But so alright. Well, anything else?

SPEAKER_06 2:09:08

I think it's it. My name is Paul. My name's Clayton. And you've been listening to Beyond the Pullis. We'll catch you next time.