The Future of AI in Marketing with Helena Kappen

In this episode of Codex Futures, Helena Kappen, Chief Marketing Officer at Microsoft Sweden, shares insights on how AI is transforming marketing, the importance of local market adaptation, and the future of AI-driven work. Join us in this week's episode to discover strategies for embracing AI, fostering a growth mindset, and leveraging agents to enhance productivity and creativity.

Disclaimer:

The views and opinions expressed by the guest on this podcast are solely their own and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of Microsoft.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

This AI world we are in now is is actually a revolution that belongs to everyone but once in. But you really need to make sure that you lean in and if you do that you will be part of Shake in the future. But it can be scary, it can be hard, you don't know where to start, but it's really up to you as an individual to really take that leak.

SPEAKER_00 0:22

Hello and welcome to Codex Futures, a triptych podcast decoding how we'll live, learn, and play in the future. Each episode, we dive into a different industry to uncover the trends, cultural shifts, and powerful forces reshaping it. And what those changes mean for the people driving innovation forward. In today's episode, we're thrilled to welcome Helena Kappen, Chief Marketing Officer at Microsoft Sweden. Welcome, Helena. Thank you so much. It'd be great to give our listeners a little bit of sense of you and your journey. I know you've been at Microsoft for quite a bit of time, but maybe if you talk a little bit about what the journey into that was and then, you know, your last decade at Microsoft and what you've been doing there.

SPEAKER_01 1:01

I joined Microsoft 11 years ago now, after being headhunted into their trainee program for MBA students. So my first role was uh product marketing manager role. But the funny part here is actually at that point of time, Microsoft was not really on my radar. But I thought, like, why not go to take some interviews and see what happens? So after spending a full day at the office in Stockholm and meeting the team, doing interviews and different assessments, I instantly felt drawn to the culture, the people, and you know, the energy. It was busting in the office. So by the end of that day, I knew I wanted to join. And luckily, I got the offer right away. So since then, and that was the product marketing manager role. Then I had in total five different roles since I started. So I was first the product marketing manager for the Swedish market, and then I moved on to covering uh the Western Europe markets, and then I went on um working as a business group lead, industry marketing manager, and now the chief marketing officer. So uh that's actually one thing I really love about Microsoft. It's a culture of a kind of mobility. So we are encouraged to change roles every few years, and I think that really at least keeps my mind fresh and it helps us grow a lot. So, and also I think working across different parts of the organization before this role, the chief marketing officer role, has been a huge advantage for me because I think it gives me, have given me a broader perspective and it helped me connect the dots across the four business.

SPEAKER_00 2:36

What was it about the culture or kind of the feeling of that day? I'm quite curious. What was that magnetism and that draw for you?

SPEAKER_01 2:42

I think it's hard to put it in words, but it was the energy, you know, from the people I was meeting. I can just feel it busting, you could feel the energy in the building. And everyone I was meeting was so welcoming and everyone is super smart, obviously. And you know, they're just the culture of working towards something together, and uh everyone is on the journey and it's like full on. Um so you have to be like really like that fast-paced environment, I think. But it was a 100% fit for me. But it was something I just felt when I I walked into the building, more or less.

SPEAKER_00 3:15

And I'm curious, you know, Microsoft is such a global brand, and you've worked in different markets, and now you're specifically focused on the Swedish market. What's it like working for a global organization that touches everyone, but your your role is focused on one of the markets? Are there nuances that you see across those different cultures?

SPEAKER_01 3:33

Well, I think you know, that balance between being a global company but working just locally in Sweden, I think that's for me one actually one of the most interesting parts of my role because of course Microsoft is global by design, but the relevance is always local. So my job, of course, is being responsible for driving growth, brand, and customer engagement across the Swedish market. And if I don't know the Swedish landscape and what's important for our country and the different target groups here, I will not succeed in my role, and Microsoft will not succeed in Sweden. So I think with that said, using local data and insights to really ensure decisioning and messaging that it's clear and just tailored to the Swedish market and landscape is just something that really excites me because that's where I really make a difference, even working for a global big company like Microsoft.

SPEAKER_00 4:29

Absolutely. I mean that definitely seems like the right structure, isn't it? There's some you know something global, but it needs to be localized at a regional level and adapted according to each market. What are some of the nuances around, I guess, Swedish consumers or Swedish culture that you have to adapt to?

SPEAKER_01 4:46

Well, I think as a country, I mean Swedish organizations and companies, often early adopters, we have high digital maturity. But it's also we have really high expectations around the ethics, security, employee, well-being, also societal impact. So, from that perspective, technology really needs to prove that it can improve both productivity and the quality of life. So that's kind of the standards you really need to take into account. That's also, of course, relates back to the previous questions that you know that's my job to really understand that the nuances of the Swedish markets, translating global innovation into local meaning.

SPEAKER_00 5:26

Do you have an example of something you've worked on previously that brings that to life?

SPEAKER_01 5:30

I think in that sense, um you're talking about the local piece, right? I think it it's actually everything we do. So you know if we're doing a large event like a security summit or um doing a blog post, I mean you always need to take that local aspect to it because otherwise it won't fly. I think, for example, in Sweden we don't really want to talk about products because it doesn't really engage anyone. So you really need to be sure to talk about the value, what's happening at the end of that or the products. So that's really important to take into account, and that's something we do every day.

SPEAKER_00 6:08

So is that so in terms of the messaging, is talking more about the value rather than the product?

SPEAKER_01 6:14

Exactly. The messaging is also like making sure that we are bringing customers, uh talking about their journeys, uh how have um Microsoft helped them in terms of value.

SPEAKER_00 6:26

And what does innovation mean in the context of Microsoft and a URL?

SPEAKER_01 6:31

I think in my role, if we look at marketing, we are currently transforming marketing and we are striving to really become a frontier marketing organization. And by that we mean we are meaning that we are really trying to aim to fully embrace AI. Uh, but of course, that has to be powered by integrated teams of human experts and also intelligent agents to achieve those outstanding results. And at this point, of course, it's also trial and error because you can't just drive that transformation uh from traditional marketing to more AI impact-driven marketing in one day. So it's something you have to kind of try out and you know what's working and see. But with what you're doing right now, we are focusing on um a set of things. And I think the first one is to really prioritize outcomes of our activities. So we are really making sure that every effort drives we impact, and that's really important. It's not the quantity, it's the quality. Second, it's really important also to um really use data and feedback loops to guide decisions because otherwise you can't really know if you're doing the right things. You need to really base it on data that you have. And I think the next thing also to build the new kind of skill set that is needed for this, and also new kind of expertise that maybe we don't have yet. Uh, we need to kind of dive into that and see what is needed for the next couple of years. Next thing is to stay really curious because at this point of time you don't really know what's happening tomorrow. Uh, there's new things happening all the time in the market uh and with marketing as well, when I like coming in. So I think also it's very important to uh shape our product based on the customer insight that we are actually getting, because we have a lot of data and we know what the customers want and what's working, what's not working. But the last thing is to really scale, in fact, through AI, because this is how we can imagine marketing for speed, creativity, but also consistency. And I think that's what's you know can drive marketing that truly matters. Because it's clear right now that you know doing this as usual that want to keep us for the future at all. So I think it's a lot about creating meaningful change.

SPEAKER_00 8:55

You talked about kind of the the human human teams and agentic workforces. Is that changing or kind of do you have like a I guess a typical composition of, you know, when you have a project, well, how are you thinking about agentic workforces and they're working together?

SPEAKER_01 9:08

Looking at agents, I think we have to see it as collaborators. They're really, really here to help us. They're here to be an you know, assistant or an extra colleague, but we can't expect agents to drive everything for us. You still need to have that human aspect of the agents side of forest.

SPEAKER_00 9:27

So shifting gears a little bit and thinking about the future, you know, because we know the future of live, learn and play is is the topic area. What are the biggest forces of change that you're seeing in the industry at the moment and why? I guess you can think about it from Microsoft as a as a company, but also, you know, you talked a lot about you know marketing and the role of those teams and how that is changing.

SPEAKER_01 9:46

I think you have to see AI as kind of the new interface for work, but also creativity and also decision making. We are in front of that big shift still, I would say. Uh we are on the way, but we are not quite there yet. So I think we're seeing a big shift towards platform that can learn with you. You know, with that said, just not tools. And of course, agents again. I think agents are the key here. I'm really excited about agents because I think in a in a year we will see that they can support us with so much. Uh not just single tasks, it's business processes and all the things that I was talking about previously, also the bor the boring stuff so you can focus on that are meaningful. But I think related to this as well, I think the biggest force of change, I think I usually tend to think a lot about the culture here because this AI world we are in now, it's it's actually a revolution that belongs to everyone that wants in. But you need to make sure that you lean in. And if you do that, you will be part of Shake in the future. But it can be scary, it can be hard, I don't know where to start. But it's really up to you as an individual to really take that leak. But looking at more forces of change when it comes to marketing and for marketing leaders, I think the biggest shift right now is uh speed and maybe complexity. Because looking at uh customer journeys, for example, they are they can be a bit unstructured. You can have yes, you can have a lot of data, but it can be very messy data. And I think the expectations right now for relevance with AI coming in as well, supporting and speeding things up are incredibly high. So right now I think marketing is about becoming a bit more less about doing one-stop campaigns and more about continuous value creations. But the same thing here as well. As a marketer, you really need to lean in and you need to be curious about the role that you're playing today and the maybe the role that you will play tomorrow, because it might not be the same. And you I also think you need to understand the broader context here and possibly really consider all the paths and all the maybe pilots you are doing and how are they coming together, also within certainties really have a strategy for what you are implementing and why.

SPEAKER_00 12:06

Thinking about, I guess, you know, you talked about you you really have to lean in and embrace, and people need to it's it's a bit scary, but people just need to just try and experiment. What do you see maybe from your vantage point in Sweden? Like what's the kind of cultural response to AI?

SPEAKER_01 12:20

I think it's very mixed. Some of the companies they haven't really started yet. They are like on the, you know, they maybe they're feeling a bit behind, thinking, okay, we are so behind now. Um, this has been going on for two years. So can we even succeed if we start now? Uh and I think there's some ones companies that are on the other side of this and are really doing like pilots. They are implementing new things and strategies and so on. So it's very mixed still in Sweden. But uh I think just here is just to you don't have to invent the wheel. You can look if you are in a certain industry, you can look, okay, what what have other companies done in this industry, what have been working, start and you know, connect it to your strategy, of course.

SPEAKER_00 13:02

What advice do you have for, I guess, individuals or organizations who are on that kind of tipping point and just starting to figure out how to fit AI into how they do things differently and how they make their world easier and better?

SPEAKER_01 13:16

I think you just have to set up a steering committee like with uh different roles from the company, uh because this is just not something you can do for one department. So you need set up a steering committee with people from across the organization. Uh decide on a set of pilots that you really want to start on and you know that you know where you know this can potentially be uh areas where we actually can change processes or whatever you need, and of course, again connect it to your strategy, but also make sure that you are doing them as pythons. And then you know if it's not working, then you just move on to the mixing and start with that. But also change adoption and learning is really, really important for the whole company.

SPEAKER_00 13:58

Is there anything that I guess organizations need to think about in terms of the the company culture and how do you create a culture, as you said, maybe it's learning and experimentation and embracing trying something new? What's the culture that is gonna enable adoption of this change in the right way?

SPEAKER_01 14:13

I think uh organizations and companies really have to have a growth mindset culture. And you also need to have a culture that allows failure. It's okay not to know everything, it's okay to ask. You know, you have to really have that culture of being kind with experimentation, so to say.

SPEAKER_00 14:31

Do you have an example of of how you've embraced that kind of experimental mindset in embracing AI in the work that you're doing? Well, I think at Microsoft, I've always felt that the culture is like that.

SPEAKER_01 14:41

So it's always encouraged to try new things. It's okay to fail, um, but you have to learn something from it. So when I started, I of course I did a lot of things that didn't go well, you know, trying to create my own agents and you know I had to do it several times to get it right. But that's okay. And I think it's also a good thing to talk about it to your teams, everyone, because it just shows that you are human. It's okay, you don't have to know everything from the beginning.

SPEAKER_00 15:09

So, how do you think consumer expectations are changing as with for brands as you know AI comes into the world?

SPEAKER_01 15:17

Well, I think with everything uh being so much faster, and you know, consumer also will expect brands to truly understand them as individuals, uh, but also to respect them with all the data and knowledge they have now. So the thing is here that I think many are expecting a deep level of personalization that really fits you as a person, as a consumer. But the thing is, I what's interesting here that this can go both ways because personalization without trust won't work at all. So transparency, relevance, and also responsibility will matter more than ever, uh, in my opinion. Because if you do this right as a company, you have the power to do it extraordinary good. But if you are not doing it right, it can destroy the trust of your brand in seconds. So it's dangerous, but it also has a lot of opportunities, I would say, if you do it right. And do you have an example of, I guess, what doing it right versus doing it wrong would might be like I think all of us have received the kind of emails that are supposed to be personalized and that were truly like 100% wrong. And then you feel like, oh well, I won't buy anything from you. Um goodbye. Maybe I don't have an example yet of someone doing it 100% correct. Maybe if you're like I receive an email from my local food store and giving me a discount of the chocolate I really liked and usually buying, that could be an okay example, but I think we have uh opportunities here to do it.

SPEAKER_00 16:51

And what do you think the consumer sentiment is like around adoption of AI? Do you think people are adopting it and thinking about it in the same way in their personal lives as they are in their work lives, or are there any differences?

SPEAKER_01 17:03

Yeah, well, I think people act a bit different when it comes to being a consumer for your own life and being like if you are purchasing something as a company. But I think it's it's kind of the same expectations.

SPEAKER_00 17:16

And I think we touched on this a little bit, but I would love to get your take on how you've been in many roles, but now in marketing, how do you think AI is changing the role of marketing and is it evolving, if at all?

SPEAKER_01 17:27

Well, I would say that marketing is becoming a bit more predictive and also adaptive. And I think teams will be moving from campaign-based thinking to more ongoing engagements powered by real-time data and also speed of doing things are being much, much, much faster. So these are the things that are happening right now in combination with um opportunities with personalization.

SPEAKER_00 17:53

Yeah, absolutely. And I guess going back to the point we talked about consumers, it's I don't know, demoneteers need to work harder to be relevant, I don't know, to say something that's meaningful and to add value to consumers' lives.

SPEAKER_01 18:04

No, but I think we have to work smarter and using like the insights we are getting from AI, for example, using them in the right way and connecting it to a 360-degree view of everything. So that's what I'm meaning with it's not just a campaign-based approach anymore. It's like a 360-degree approach more or less that you have to take on to be successful.

SPEAKER_00 18:25

And could you bring that to life with examples of you know, where where are those 360-degree insights coming from?

SPEAKER_01 18:31

Well, I think uh just taking Microsoft, as example, we are using um something called um global demand center, where we are collecting all our marketing signals. So it doesn't really matter if you, as a customer, has uh went to a security event or an AI event or downloaded a white paper or did a trial of a product. Everything is collected in uh this um digital structure, so to say. And of course, you are not getting insights from one campaign here, you're getting insights from customers from everything we are doing. Which of course gives you a whole different picture and gives you different marketing signals that also sales can use in a much better way because they get all the marketing data in one place.

SPEAKER_00 19:18

And then is it using AI to kind of synthesize and you've got a holistic view of each consumer?

SPEAKER_01 19:24

Yeah, of course. And you have machine learning and you are, you know, of course, doing different customer journeys depending on which industry they are in and uh what size of the company, what roles they have, and so on.

SPEAKER_00 19:35

So it's not so much changing the role, but it's changing the value and how are you connected with consumers in a more holistic and three-secretary way.

SPEAKER_01 19:43

And I think we will know more about, you know, of course it will change the role as well, but I think we will see more about that uh in a couple of years' time. But I think it's more maybe looking at the skill sets um needed from a marketing person today and uh in a couple of years' time. And I think that's also a bit changing. It's not so much kind of preset skill sets that are going to be looked for. It's more about you know having that ability to learn and adapt group mindsets as well.

SPEAKER_00 20:14

That's interesting. I think that's come up in quite a few conversations in terms of you know, when you're recruiting for the workforce of the future, it's not so much on kind of hard skills, it's the it's the the ability and the attitude and the softer skills. What do you look for when you're, I guess, recruiting for your team? You think you touched on that? Is it is it that you know, ability to that learn over with mindset rather than specific skills?

SPEAKER_01 20:35

You know, ability to be be really curious, ability to really seek to understand, um, look at the whole picture. Uh so maybe not like as much specialists who are like someone that understands 360 degree of everything.

SPEAKER_00 20:49

And you know, we've talked a little bit about you know adopting or and creating agents actually to bring into the workflow. I'm curious how else are you using ALA and technology and how is that changing the processes and the way that you're you're doing marketing?

SPEAKER_01 21:03

Well, I think it can be on different levels, but of course for me, co-pilot is a big help. So based on my personal productivity level. So I use Copilot every day to transcribe meetings and summary meetings, draft emails, draft blog posts or social media posts. And also I've started to experiment, as I said, also with uh agents that I can build like myself, but also some agents that, you know, of course, are too complex for me to build. So uh Microsoft Corp is releasing them. So I think one of my favorite agents is uh Nathan Company Searchers, me searcher that can actually can help me structure both insights from my personal files and you know emails and so on, but also information from um internet, so it can actually will replace doing um like all the job. That needs needed for um uh for doing it at brief, for example. So it collects a lot of data and that of course saves me a lot of time using that role.

SPEAKER_00 22:10

What do you think the role of AI is in in kind of more of the creativity, the strategic? The things are a little bit higher level and more at the moment potentially human-centered. Do you think there's a role for AI in in tasks there?

SPEAKER_01 22:23

Well, yes, I do, but I think creativity and you know, things like empathy and the human factor, they are still a bit, they can't really be replaced. So in that sense, I think those are the things that are still needed from the humans. And AI are doing other things. And of course, we have uh and now things like you, you know, doing assets for campaigns and so on, that's great, but you still need to put time in the human aspect and from the creativity aspect because right now at least AI want to get it right um at the first shots of say. So I think this is one of the biggest mistakes right now is to underestimating a value of your context in uh you know creativity and decision making for that sake.

SPEAKER_00 23:10

Yeah, so there's actually then the kind of the role of the Hue will be to do more of that because it's taking a lot of uh illustrative tasks away.

SPEAKER_01 23:19

I think so, and I think that's also what makes marketing works right now. It's like you know your brand, you know what's working with your customers. So on I right now at least AI is not at that level. It might be in a year or a couple of years, you'd never know. But right now you still need to have that control as a marketeer.

SPEAKER_00 23:38

Do you think it's gonna make mean that teams are smaller as a genetic workforce becomes more commonplace?

SPEAKER_01 23:44

Yeah, I think it will to a certain degree, but I think it will more replace those kind of boring statics, maybe the more junior roles. And I think it still will not replace the more strategic roles and strategic thinking and so on. So let's see. But that's at least my kind of vision in the future.

SPEAKER_00 24:04

How do you think like you mentioned you know AI is not there yet? You know, you're closest to the development of co-pilot. Like, what do you think the kind of the future of that technology is going to look like?

SPEAKER_01 24:14

I think it will be more integrated. I think in a, for example, co-pilot and agents will take over more business processes and it will be more automatic. So I think that will happen in the next year or so. But I think the the most exciting part is about this is that I I actually do think that in five years' time we will look back and say, oh, I could never have imagined that to happen. So there's so much still that we don't know because everything is happening so fast. So it's kind of a million-dollar question, I would say.

SPEAKER_00 24:45

What excites you and what do you think is potentially risky?

SPEAKER_01 24:49

I think looking at one risk that we are seeing right now is the actually shadow IT, because especially for um companies, organizations that are not maybe allowing um AI tools uh to their workforce, we actually have studies that we can see that employees are then bringing in uh consumer AI tools, which of course is the huge risk because if you are starting to put your business data into consumer tools, we can't be sure that uh, you know, you don't know what happens. So that's not safe. So that's a big risk, I would say, that we are actually seeing. So really, really make sure as a company that you are giving tools to your employees to make sure that is not happening. It is also risky if you are moving too fast without having a strategy, but it also risk moving too slow because you are afraid. Both are dangerous, uh, so to say.

SPEAKER_00 25:43

Yeah, it's it's interesting to get strike the balance, isn't it? Because you know, we talked about experimentation and that is important. You need to try and you need to have that ability to fail, but that naturally comes with some element of risk. How do you think people strike the balance between what's the right level of risk that is positive versus the right so for the level that's potentially too much?

SPEAKER_01 26:03

Well, I think it's by by having that steering committee that are overseeing everything and that are, you know, does this pilot fit in your strategy and so on? So I think it's just by having that instance in place, you are kind of covered.

SPEAKER_00 26:17

Really interesting point about you know, people using consumer AI tools, I think you called it, and bringing that into the workplace. Everyone is kind of experimenting, but potentially in their own silo. What are the guardrails? And I guess, do you think there should be guardrails in terms of how does each brand and each company have their own AI strategy and have their own guardrails about how we should be using it in a way that fits right for our brand versus another one?

SPEAKER_01 26:41

Yeah, absolutely. I think it needs to be part of the strategy.

SPEAKER_00 26:45

Yeah, it's it's mandatory. So thinking about different agents and using AI to develop agents that will help the human in the workforce. Could you share a little bit more about the agents that you've developed?

SPEAKER_01 26:56

So the agents I created uh is called uh the marketing uh chief officer agent for Copilot. And uh this was actually launched as support to other marketing managers because I really tried to spread the world about the world of agents. And now I really want other marketing managers to also learn and to try, try everything. So this is also a way to start and to experiment with it and then do it in a safe way, of course, because everything is given to it. But the purpose is really to um yeah, make generative AI a natural part of everyday work for everyone, regardless of industry, if you are a marketer. So this marketing agent uh it can help um marketing uh managers to create uh marketing finance aligned of curved with business objectives. Um it can choose the right channels for a campaign based on data and RI. And it can work with models like well-known marketing models like Soft Special and STP. And um I would say maybe it's not just so much of a technology project. This is more about trying to transform the way marketers need and think and how we can use agents and AI in our everyday work. So the best use case about these agents is that you actually make it your own because you are putting your own data, your own uh strategy and so on, campaigns or whatever you want to do with it into it. So it's gonna be built for you. And it also shows that it's actually easy to build an agent like this in Coffelet. So we launched it with a set of instructions how to set it up, of course. But I also included uh over 60 prongs, anything from simple to hyper complex to help carketeers to get started as well. But it's it was really a way to try to support other marketing managers to get started and within their area heard this, then you know, building their own agents and to show them that it's it's easy.

SPEAKER_00 28:58

Coming to a close, thank you so much for your time. And you have covered lots of different areas. If listeners could take away one thing from this conversation, what would you want that to be?

SPEAKER_01 29:08

I think marketers right now, they really have the opportunity to redefine marketing. So really try to lean in. If you haven't started yet or are feeling behind, it doesn't matter, just start. I think the future actually belongs to those who combine, you know, if you can combine your human insights with AI, those are the ones that will be the winners. So just get in there and get started. If you don't start, someone else will, and uh the ones who are really trying and experimenting, failing fast, doing new pilots, they will be the front rubbers in this game.

SPEAKER_00 29:49

Well, thank you again, Helena. Really appreciate your time. Thank you so much for having me. Thanks for listening to Codex Futures. If today's episode sparked new ideas, we'd love to hear from you. Email me at louise.newson at triptych.com or click on the link below. Follow Triptych on LinkedIn and subscribe to our Codex newsletter as we explore more perspectives shaping tomorrow.