Ep 9: Play Date with Kate Buckmeier

My guest today is Kate Buckmeier — former neighbor, fellow quilter, and the mastermind behind something she calls The Grandma Project. Around her 49th birthday, the idea for the project arrived fully formed: twelve months, twelve activities pulled straight from the lives of her two grandmothers. Golf. Sauerkraut making. Contra dancing. Watching Days of Our Lives.

We talk about why women are so quick to talk themselves out of the ideas that come "fully formed," and why the word serve can feel like both a calling and a trigger. Kate opens up about growing up on her family farm in a small Minnesota town, the theme she calls "the dance between holding on and letting go," and what she now knows about connection, joy, and duty because of the women who helped raised her.

If this stirs something in you — a memory, an idea, a curiosity you've set aside — come find The Wonder Project, my free series of small invitations to reconnect with play.

And, for Kate's original blog post on the project, visit: https://katebuckmeier.com/the-grandma-project/

www.annmarieboyle.com

Music from Uppbeat (https://uppbeat.io/t/soundroll/to-the-top), License code BC9SEN3G6PMABOA

Transcript

Annmarie 0:02

Welcome to I Used to be Fun, the podcast about remembering who you were before life got so serious. I'm Annmarie Boyle, author, creativity instigator, and recovering overachiever. And each week, we explore how reconnecting to creativity and play helps us feel more alive, inspired, and like ourselves again. So set down the to-do list, grab a cup of coffee, and let's go find some fun Hey, welcome to our next Play Date. Today my guest is Kate Buckmeier, and Kate and I used to be neighbors, but recently a mutual friend invited us to a quilting evening, and yep, it's the exact same kind of quilting I talked about in the last Play Date episode. And when we were gathering, stitching away, is where I first heard Kate mention what she's calling The Grandma Project, and as soon as she started describing it, I knew it was the perfect fit for this show, and so Kate welcome to I Used To Be Fun.

Kate B 1:12

Thanks. Thanks for having me

Annmarie 1:14

So for anybody hearing about it the first time, tell me more about The Grandma Project, what it is, and where the idea came from

Kate B 1:24

Yeah. So the idea came, right around my 49th birthday, like days around my 49th birthday. And, It came to me just sort of fully formed. It was a project I did until just after my 50th birthday, and it was 12 months of activities, pastimes that my grandmothers, I either saw them doing or that I heard about them doing. And I did six months of my Grandma H and six months of my Grandma B. And they both had passed within the last seven, eight years and, um, I had done some writing about my Grandma B before, and I was also looking for, you know, something to focus writing on, and this felt like, a way to do that, a way to be kind of in the memories of them and also creating new memories. So yeah, it came that way. And I just chose some activities, again, that I either saw them doing or that I had heard that they did. I grew up in a very small town with my grandmothers, both of them living in that small town, I spent a lot of time with them or hearing about them or being in their, you know, proximity. So I have a lot of memories with them

Annmarie 2:40

I love that, and I love the idea of it being a way to look at turning 50, like giving yourself something to move into that next decade with, but also continuing to create memories with people that have passed. So many times we don't know what to do when someone passes and how to honor their memory, and even more so stay connected to them. So that is fabulous, And I absolutely want to get into the specifics a little bit more, but first, noticed you wrote a blog post about it when you first started, and I

Kate B 3:13

Right

Annmarie 3:13

that over the last couple days, and you said that it started with a spark that just felt right, which is what you were saying, it came fully formed.

Kate B 3:22

Yeah

Annmarie 3:22

and here's the thing we talk about a lot on this podcast, you also said that the responsible second-guessing parts of yourself usually talk yourself out of listening to that insight. So what do you think was different this time?

Kate B 3:36

I think it just came at, at the right time. I feel like I have been doing a lot of work with that responsible sort of dependable part. And I have a lot of parts that are really strict with me. But something about this just felt like right timing, like I was ready for ready for... Well, it lined up in that I love structure, Give me a challenge and I'm going to do it. Duolingo, like The Artist's Way. And then one book that I really resonated with a long time ago was The Happiness Project, which is kind of a 12 months of what can I do to find more happiness by Gretchen Rubin. So that kind of structure was built into the project, and it just felt like, "I can do this." And I'm in this transition of launching these kids into adulthood and my son just graduated, so now I have two kids graduated from high school, one graduated from college. Just there was something about me having this year of, something that's for me, because the caretaker part also is really strong and, um, yeah, it was, it was a lot of those things. They all just kind of felt right.

Annmarie 4:50

Yeah, almost like a calling in a way. And what I want to pull out of that is, first of all, The Happiness Project was a book that I loved as well, and I still have it on my shelves, and I still refer

Kate B 5:01

Yeah

Annmarie 5:01

when you talked about The Grandma Project the first time, I went to that, and I also have a former colleague who did something similar called 50 Fun Things to Do Before You Turn 50,

Kate B 5:12

Yeah

Annmarie 5:12

That was probably 10 years ago or so now. But I do think that there is something that, about 50, I'm well past it now,

Kate B 5:20

Yeah

Annmarie 5:21

that we really do look for that. And so much of that is that we are launching our children, right?

Kate B 5:26

Mm-hmm.

Annmarie 5:26

is

Kate B 5:26

Right.

Annmarie 5:27

change. And so I love that you just into this and did it, and you and I have both done professional organizing, so that structure piece of it

Kate B 5:37

Yeah.

Annmarie 5:38

helps a lot too. It really does.

Kate B 5:39

Right

Annmarie 5:40

talked in the past on the play and creativity and those types of things need to have a freedom to them, but if you need structure to get started, I am

Kate B 5:50

Yep.

Annmarie 5:50

it.

Kate B 5:50

Yeah. Yeah.

Annmarie 5:52

it up, girlfriend.

Kate B 5:53

Yeah.

Annmarie 5:53

I'm

Kate B 5:54

Well, and that's something that I think when I say right timing, I had to tiptoe through lots of seasons of trying on things that I could do for myself, like doing The Artist's Way and then doing an artist date. And that was like, "Are you kidding me? Take a day of the week to go do something that maybe doesn't cost anything but that is for me?" I had to try on those things before I could get to this kind of a project where it was a full year. And and so it's, it just felt like, yeah, right timing 'cause I've, I had practiced at doing little things for myself in this way or doing little things that were challenging or risky or felt that way to me stepping out of my comfort zone. And then yeah, this was an extension of that

Annmarie 6:42

I want to ask a question about that why do you think it is so hard for women to give themselves time for themselves?

Kate B 6:49

Hmm. I think it's our culture. I just think we've been conditioned to really be looking to the others, you know, looking to how you can serve, how you can, Yeah, I, I just, like I said, I have a big caretaker part. And when I was young, I was very creative, and I'm very introverted. But I think that I got a lot of praise and connection, praise and yeah, I guess, a way to, yeah, affirmation and a way to fit in by being, you know, really looking to what others needed. My husband had suggested I should start a blog when my kids started elementary school. And one of my first blog posts was about trying to figure out why I didn't have a favorites list, and how hard it was for me to just say the things that I liked. You know, it was like actually putting out something that was just about me it just felt wrong. Like there was some threat there, which I'm slowly getting over. You know? It just, it just has taken a long time to peel back the layers of like, it's okay if you might be judged for that. It's okay if somebody's disappointed if you don't show up for that. I just feel like the conditioning around looking to others and and what their needs are, and then the affirmation you get from that is just really powerful, and especially for women. But I won't say that's just women. I mean, my husband works on that too. We work on it. Actually, he's a really good partner for me because we both play heavy roles in being dependable, responsible, always able to fix and solve. And so we continue to have to remind each other how to think about what we need,

Annmarie 8:37

I was having a conversation with a girlfriend just a couple of days ago, and I told her that the word serve is a trigger for me,

Kate B 8:45

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Annmarie 8:48

but I really believe that we are here to make other people's lives better,

Kate B 8:53

Yeah.

Annmarie 8:54

I,

Kate B 8:54

Yeah

Annmarie 8:54

every day, whether it's this podcast or it's even writing fluffy contemporary romance books

Kate B 8:59

No.

Annmarie 8:59

can I help someone have a better day?" And so I am being in service, but

Kate B 9:05

Yeah

Annmarie 9:05

reason, that word triggers so hard in me, and I think it's exactly what you said there, is culturally, both men and women, but really women, have been told that the way they move through the world is to serve other people. And so

Kate B 9:19

Yeah

Annmarie 9:19

a step back and be able to about what it is that we want what, I... The podcast that came out the day before we're recording this was about is it really that you can't afford something, or are you really worried you don't deserve it? So

Kate B 9:35

Yep.

Annmarie 9:35

is coming together, and it

Kate B 9:37

Yep

Annmarie 9:37

that creativity and play because obviously

Kate B 9:39

Yeah

Annmarie 9:40

another way of saying taking time for yourself. But

Kate B 9:43

Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

Annmarie 9:45

to the Grammar Project. So this ties to both w- what we were just talking about and the Grammar Project. So if women are listening and they've read The Happiness Project, or they're have an idea that they're excited about they keep talking themselves out of it, do you have any words of advice for diving in?

Kate B 10:04

Well, I'd love to say just go for it, but I also understand that, you know, it's like time, energy, money, all the things can be a barrier, and it's really easy to talk yourself out of it. But one thing that I've had to figure out is, like, I get tons of ideas, and I also have bounced from job to job. I was trained as a teacher, and then when my kids came along, I stayed home with them, but I was always doing something on the side, always, and then I've just continued to bounce, and that's been something I've had to reconcile with, if that's an okay thing to do. I'm still working on, being okay with that. But I guess what I would say is that you can try it on, and you can also let it sit and simmer for a minute, you know, without letting go of it. I have a little notebook that I've started because I get, you know, ideas all the time. I'm going to, "Oh, I'm going to do this," and then it can become a business. You know, like, that's something that I have a really hard time with is not-- is just doing something for the fun of it, doing an idea because it came and I think it would be fun and enjoyable and not having it go off into next steps and five years down the road and all of the things. But if you can just find a way to start by experimenting or tipping your toe in, lots of ideas can be just, like a lot smaller and a lot simpler. And if you need a partner to do it, to get you boosted to, you know, go for it, that can help. But I'm finding that I need to find the difference between when an idea comes and it comes from an outside need and I think, "Oh, I can fill that need. I'll do this idea versus this idea is for me. Like, I'm-- this idea came. I'm interested in it. I really want to do this for myself and see where it goes. So that's something that through this project I've been figuring out too is, is sort of like when to, when to follow the spark and when to notice that it came because I'm such a good problem solver and I'm such a good fixer and if that actually is what I want to do, you know. So, so that's been a, a little bit of a lesson through this project and through growing up, so.

Annmarie 12:23

We have that in common, and I have bounced from many jobs too, and some of it is because we can do a lot of things.

Kate B 12:30

Yeah

Annmarie 12:31

I have had a somewhat recent diagnosis of some sort of neurospiciness, whether it's ADHD

Kate B 12:38

Yeah

Annmarie 12:39

that spectrum, and it's funny how that almost a relief, right?

Kate B 12:45

Yeah.

Annmarie 12:46

okay, that's the way my brain works.

Kate B 12:47

Yeah. Yeah

Annmarie 12:49

that I can do best is if there's six pieces to the puzzle laying on the table, I can put them together. But

Kate B 12:55

Yeah.

Annmarie 12:55

I need to make a business out of it, which

Kate B 12:57

Yeah.

Annmarie 12:57

done

Kate B 12:58

Yeah.

Annmarie 12:58

One of the best lessons I got about that was, it's been several years now, but I was talking to a friend who, Kate and I live in a town where there are two liberal arts colleges, so if you throw something, you're going to hit a PhD.

Kate B 13:11

Right

Annmarie 13:11

one of my friends who is a professor, was sitting in her office one day and she said, "I used you as an example in my class today," and she's a psychology professor. And I thought, "Oh. Oh, no. Where is this going to go?" 'Cause, crazy is maybe not the right word, but close.

Kate B 13:27

Yeah

Annmarie 13:29

and so I braced myself for what was going to come, because I didn't

Kate B 13:32

Mm-hmm.

Annmarie 13:32

it to be a nice thing. And I said, "What did, what were you teaching about?" And she said, "I told people that I have this friend who is not afraid to try anything. She will do

Kate B 13:43

Mm-hmm. Right.

Annmarie 13:44

She's

Kate B 13:45

Right.

Annmarie 13:45

to her deathbed wondering,

Kate B 13:47

Right. Right.

Annmarie 13:49

that.'" And

Kate B 13:49

Right.

Annmarie 13:50

good way for me to reframe it, and then

Kate B 13:52

Mm-hmm

Annmarie 13:52

on what you did. It doesn't have to become a business.

Kate B 13:55

Yeah

Annmarie 13:55

we can do this, and it doesn't have to monetize itself, Creativity, downtime, it shouldn't have to be, "How am I going to optimize this? How am I going to monetize

Kate B 14:06

Yeah.

Annmarie 14:07

and that's my lesson. I can hear

Kate B 14:08

Yeah.

Annmarie 14:09

too, but I

Kate B 14:09

Yeah

Annmarie 14:10

have to, because I can see how to monetize it.

Kate B 14:12

Yeah, exactly.

Annmarie 14:14

doesn't mean I should, type of

Kate B 14:15

Yeah, exactly

Annmarie 14:17

you did say a couple things I just want to reiterate, and the first thing I wrote was, try it on. So give the idea a go. Let it simmer without letting it go. That's the piece. We live in this black and white world where it's I'm either going to go all in or I'm not going to do it. I love the idea of just letting it simmer while having a holding space for it. I think that's a great thing to do, whether you're trying a new job or a new hobby or can I make this into a business? Whatever it is. Even if it's hey, I've alwa- thought that maybe I wanted to play pickleball. Do I really?

Kate B 14:49

Yeah.

Annmarie 14:50

Something as simple as that. But Now, most of the times when I start these play dates, I ask people if they consider themselves somebody who plays. And because I wanted to focus in on the Grandma Project, I just

Kate B 15:03

Yeah

Annmarie 15:04

interesting, I kinda want to know what play looked like for you growing up, and even more specifically, if it included any of the things you tried while working on the Grandma Project. Since you lived so close to your grandmothers, did you

Kate B 15:18

Yeah

Annmarie 15:19

with them when you were a kid?

Kate B 15:20

Yeah. Yeah. So I grew up, I said, in a small, small town in southeastern Minnesota, and I grew up on a farm. I actually grew up on the farm that my Grandma H was raised on, and then my dad, and then me. And so I had a lot of space and a lot of time to play outside. And I saw my grandma gardening at the farm, which is one of the months that I did. I saw her, I, I guess I just saw her being outside no matter where she was. She was so active. And what I did playing and growing up was a lot of building forts I had some cousins that were super creative and would come down from the cities, and we would make puppet plays and, and put on plays and dress up and, and build forts and ride the horses from one fort to another. And so I did a lot of outdoor play, but I saw my Grandma H doing so many active sports and active things. she golfed until she couldn't. I mean, she golfed for years and years. I didn't golf with her. But we always had softball games in the backyard and softball games at family gatherings, and she was there at my dad's softball games cheering them on. So there were lots of things of, you know, my grandma being around, but sport was a lot of play in my family. But I also played with a dollhouse, and I, you know, liked to create and, craft and do a ton of things like that. And I, I think before doing the project, I didn't think of my Grandma H as being that creative. I guess I thought of her as always so active. But doing the project She had photo books like crazy and, I think, oh my gosh, she was super creative and and all the ways that she gardened and all the things she did. And then the other part is that my Grandma B was a lot more in the home, and I spent a lot of time with her. She worked from home at one point in her life, and I would wait for her to be done with her lunch or to be ready for lunch, and then we would play cards. We had so many laughs playing Go to the Dump and, Gin Rummy and, I was a kindergartner, and she was my daycare on the off days that I didn't go to kindergarten, and she took time to play. And we sat on the floor, and she got down there with me. Just those ideas of them taking time and either watching them do their own hobby and play or having it be, yeah, something that they did with me, so

Annmarie 17:45

Do you think that type of play from your grandmothers translated into you with your own kids?

Kate B 17:52

Yeah, for sure. For sure. I really can be structured and organized and all of those things, and I think we had a household that ran that way as far as like, okay, we're going to eat around this time, and we know what we're going to have for dinners and, you know, all of that. But I'm recognizing so much of that structure just allowed then for the times off to be more playful and I always love to have music on in the house. I see my kids dancing, you know, as soon as we have music on at dinner time or getting ready for dinner. I think there was a season there where it was, you know, difficult for me to feel playful, and I think fun and play, those words have, been a little tricky for me because I do take on that responsible, kind of dependable role. But I'm really s- I'm really enjoying myself when I'm playful and when I let myself be. And so I just had my nephew stay for a few nights, and playing with a first grader is just, it's just delightful. Just to take his lead, be right there laugh, see if I could get him to laugh. It's just, it can be a lot of fun.

Annmarie 19:01

We talk every once in a while on the podcast about it's so easy to play when we have the excuse of kids or grandkids. And

Kate B 19:07

Yeah

Annmarie 19:08

is that piece, and then learning how to translate that. But honestly, I'm, know, as I've said many times on the podcast now that I'm not a parent, but that doesn't mean I don't like kids.

Kate B 19:19

Yeah

Annmarie 19:19

have played a big role in my life, and there is nothing more fun than watching a kid play, because they're doing it with wild abandon.

Kate B 19:27

Yeah

Annmarie 19:28

any of the rules, especially as first graders, right? I

Kate B 19:30

Yeah. Yeah

Annmarie 19:32

they lose a little bit of that. But to just watch that kind of level of creative play with really no boundaries, especially to their imagination, is... it's amazing to watch, but it's also enlightening. I try and

Kate B 19:45

Yeah

Annmarie 19:46

lesson from that all the time. Oh, what if you played like that?

Kate B 19:49

Yeah

Annmarie 19:49

there are no rules against it, but culturally we have

Kate B 19:52

Yeah.

Annmarie 19:52

there is.

Kate B 19:53

Yeah.

Annmarie 19:54

yeah.

Kate B 19:55

for sure

Annmarie 19:56

So you've mentioned quite a few things already. The golf, the card games the sports, but I think if I'm remembering, you also mentioned things like contra dancing and sauerkraut making.

Kate B 20:09

Yeah. Yeah. Right. Right. So I had, you know, 12 months, and I had, I paired an activity or a pastime with also an intention. So when I did golf, the intention was actually confidence and strength. And, and so mostly confidence because it was something I was, really had no experience with. I would golf once a month or once a year, and that was it. But yeah, some of the things I had tried before, I had not done a lot of canning or pickling, but because sauerkraut was a big deal in my family, like at Thanksgiving, they would make something called sauerkraut soup, which sounds not tasty, but, you know, it was a tradition. And so I was like, "Well, I know Grandma had a crock, and I think she had a rock, and she had some kind of a, something that went over the..." And so I was like, "I, you know, I'm going to figure this out," and that was an adventure. But yeah, again, it was, you know, a month of, of canning and pickling, doing things that I hadn't really tried before.

Annmarie 21:14

I didn't know you tied an intention to it. I'd missed

Kate B 21:16

Yeah. Yeah.

Annmarie 21:17

Love, love that. I am a

Kate B 21:19

Yeah

Annmarie 21:19

intentions. But I'm actually curious if any of the activities surprised you, like

Kate B 21:25

Ah, yeah

Annmarie 21:26

from a standpoint of, this is more fun than I thought, or I'm really learning something from this, or any of those things

Kate B 21:33

Yeah. Yeah. So it wasn't that I was acting like my grandmas. It wasn't like I was trying to be, do and be what they did. I knew I had to make it work for me. And so my Grandma B always made her sandwich and came and sat in her La-Z-Boy and watched Days of Our Lives. And so there was a month where I took that daily pause and I started watching Days of Our Lives, and I was like, "I can't do this. I can't do it. I'm sorry." It's just too dr- I don't... It was just, I couldn't get into it. I still took the time each day to have that daily pause. I tried some different shows. I tried some other things. I maybe read. I, you know, but I took that daily pause. But it was funny how some of the things just didn't fit anymore, or I had outgrown or I just needed to tweak, and yet I could still get the feeling or the intention behind it which is, which was great. I was not surprised, because like we've said before, structure is, really something that I lean into. But I took a month of doing rituals and routines, and so my Grandma B washed on, you know, laundry on Monday, ironing on Tuesday. She always ordered in burgers from our little town drive up on Fridays. So I had a schedule, and it, the whole month, pizza was Wednesday night, and I washed on, you know, a certain day and I, told my son, "This is the day I'm doing laundry. If you need help with yours, that's it." And We had brunches on Sundays. It was just like having that structure through the week and through the month just took actually a load off. Like, I couldn't just go put a load of laundry in while I went off to do this other thing, and I didn't just stop here. You know, I didn't have to think about the groceries. Like, I didn't have to on Wednesday morning think, "Well, what are we going to have for dinner tonight?" It was like, that's already set. So the freedom that it gave by having some of those pieces just put in place during the week really was helpful. And you know, again, I can lean into structure really easily. So now it's finding a balance of like, how many of those do I want to keep, and does it always have to be the same day of the week, or can I just keep that, I- that sort of intention of it just being, more of like, no, I'm going to do this now and just get it done, and then I'm going to move on. Or I'm going to know that this is set and then I'm free to, to have more, yeah, have more play and more creativity, in the open times. So yeah, I figured I could really lean into that month, but I also was surprised by how, helpful it was

Annmarie 24:16

I love the idea, and I've tried this myself as well, is instead of eschewing schedule altogether, is the schedule actually going to open up time for me to have more joy, more wonder, more play?

Kate B 24:30

Yeah. Yeah.

Annmarie 24:31

hearing.

Kate B 24:32

Yep

Annmarie 24:32

the idea also of not doing exactly what your grandmothers did, but using it as the intention. I too once watched Days of Our Lives religiously. My college friends and I actually scheduled our classes around

Kate B 24:47

Yeah. Yeah.

Annmarie 24:48

day.

Kate B 24:49

Yep

Annmarie 24:49

gone back a couple of times, and I'm like, "How could you watch this?" And no shame to anybody

Kate B 24:55

Yeah.

Annmarie 24:55

it,

Kate B 24:56

Yeah

Annmarie 24:57

too, the same with you, was yes, it was the show, but it was such a bonding moment

Kate B 25:03

Mm-hmm.

Annmarie 25:03

those of us that sat down, and it was a

Kate B 25:05

Yeah.

Annmarie 25:07

break from classes, from homework,

Kate B 25:10

Yes. Yeah

Annmarie 25:11

find that space inside a day?

Kate B 25:14

Yeah

Annmarie 25:14

about play or creativity or joy or wonder, whatever we're talking about, better if you're finding a little bit of it every day.

Kate B 25:22

Yep, for sure

Annmarie 25:23

in what you're doing, but I do think committing to that intention of having a break at a certain time. I watch Jeopardy every day at 4:30,

Kate B 25:31

Oh, awesome

Annmarie 25:32

there was a time where I felt guilty. I'm like, "First of all, that is the end of the workday, and I am self-employed. You do not need to feel guilty." But all of a sudden it became that, oh no, this is that schedule that then allows me to have a transition time between work and having an evening with my husband or getting outside

Kate B 25:52

Right

Annmarie 25:52

I love that. And it also makes me think a little bit... I had you send me a bio, and I do that with everybody just so I can kinda see how a

Kate B 26:01

Mm-hmm.

Annmarie 26:02

themselves,

Kate B 26:03

Yeah

Annmarie 26:03

there was a line in it that, said that you think there's a theme running through your life, and it's the dance between holding on and letting go. And a little bit of allowing yourself what you've just talked about is both. you think that play fits into that dance for you, that dance between holding on and letting go?

Kate B 26:25

Yeah, Like I said earlier, it's like play and fun, being the fun one or being the, you know, being playful, just those ideas, those sort of... That part of my identity felt a little bit lost for a while because I just over-identified with the other. And so it's kind of like how can you hold on to, "Yes, I'm responsible. Yes, I am dependable. Yes, I am, you know, someone who can spend time problem-solving or organizing or this and that," but also I can let go a little bit of that and open up more playfulness. I mean, just even working with someone on decluttering, and it's like taking time to give high fives, taking time to, you know, just laugh about something. That's been sort of a lesson, a theme running through is just this like holding on but not so tightly. Yeah. And, you know, a lot of this work, work of the year, I guess, in doing the project just really allowed me to feel a little bit more peace and maybe acceptance around lots of the parts of myself that didn't feel like they maybe fit into my small town or fit in with pieces of my family and so it was kind of like, okay, well, I can still hold on to a lot of this, and I can let go of some of those old feelings or beliefs or, you know, let it... have it fit, fit a little bit better with who I am now.

Annmarie 27:59

I love all of that. And I think a couple of things I pulled out of that is, first of all, from one introvert to another, like sometimes when you're shy and introverted, it's even harder to let those parts of your personality out. Or if you're somebody who's driven and structural, you want to make sure you're doing the right job. Say, you're helping somebody declutter, let's... I value their time. Let's get

Kate B 28:21

Yes, exactly. Yep

Annmarie 28:23

but when you realize that, oh, this actually makes it more fun for both of us,

Kate B 28:27

Mm-hmm. Yep

Annmarie 28:28

that go, I think is really good. I have started to say something and it's really interesting to watch people's reaction to it. I am a weird individual, and I always have been, whether it's the neurodivergence or the only child of me, I don't know what it is.

Kate B 28:42

Yeah

Annmarie 28:43

I now say I embrace my odd because I'm tired of what you're talking about and

Kate B 28:48

Mm-hmm.

Annmarie 28:48

to figure out who somebody needs me to be or the way I fit in. And the ironic part of that, to make this full circle, is the harder I try at that, the less fun I have in life.

Kate B 29:00

Yeah, exactly.

Annmarie 29:01

and then you burn out. And,

Kate B 29:02

Yeah.

Annmarie 29:04

I think the other thing that came through is yes, this project is specific to you, but it also can feel so universal because all of us have people who've shaped our stories, right? Whether we realize it or not. that person you meet for 20 minutes can have a profound effect on you, but also your grandmothers who were, you were spending much time with growing up. so when you're talking about figuring out that, oh, this fits and that doesn't fit based on my upbringing, you think that we miss anything if we stop being curious about where we came from? It's a deeper question for sure.

Kate B 29:39

Yeah. Yeah. Well, yes, for sure. I mean, I, I feel like there's been a lot of seasons in my life where I... Especially going off to college and kind of nobody really relating to someone from a small town. Like, they just didn't understand it. And so there's been a lot of times in my life where I felt like I just can't connect or, or you're not going to understand my story really. Like, everyone knowing your whole history before you even meet them, like, not very many people understand that about small town living. And so you know, I got to college and had to learn how to, like, really greet someone because it just isn't... Everyone knows who you are, who you came from, how you're connected to the community. And so there were lots of times where I think I've, I've thought back on that with sort of like, Well, it's just been mixed emotions about, like, what kind of childhood that was or what kind of upbringing. But also then now looking back and finding the gratitude and finding a lot of the really great parts. It was hard to, to say I'm not going to go back to my community and live there when, you know, that was the community that really held me and, and helped me grow. And so anyway, there's been lots of feelings around it. But I feel like when you aren't curious about what things were kinda baked in from growing up, from your upbringing you don't get a chance to see the full picture of, like, look at where I've come from and where I am now. And I feel like, oh, at 50, shouldn't you have this figured out? But I feel like I'm just continuing to peel back layers and find some of those things from childhood that did light me up and, and remembering those and maybe trying 'em on again. And then also just letting some of the other stuff that doesn't fit me anymore go a little bit more easily. But if I, if I didn't take time to get curious about that, I don't know. There's a lot of feelings that I think just have felt muddled that I, I really still needed to, to kinda dig into a little bit. So

Annmarie 31:52

And you feel like you did that through this project? Or was that, has that been an ongoing process, or

Kate B 31:58

I think

Annmarie 31:59

really help you dig into that?

Kate B 32:01

When my grandma B passed, it was kind of complicated, a lot of grief around her dying with Alzheimer's and, and just a really hard end. And I, I had felt like, okay, I've gotta find a way to process this. And so I started writing. And from there, I started writing a lot about our relationship, but also about, my small town and, and things like that. And, and I think doing some of that writing and, and, and then taking steps away from it, like sort of taking a class where I pretty much was crafting a memoir about, her and about small town and a- lots of things. And then taking a step back and going, "Okay, now how do I feel about it now, that writing?" And, and continuing to sort of yeah, explore, holding onto that past and then also letting it go and, and like what stage am I at now? And so I've been writing and, and crafting essays about those feelings and the people and things like that for a little while. And then this project came, and it was like, okay, well, now I'm going to focus really on me in this story alongside my grandma. But it's kind of like how did... You know, where am I in this? And and who am I now?

Annmarie 33:15

It sounds both cathartic and creative. Would you agree?

Kate B 33:20

I just finished, the project a month ago, and so I'm still going to be pr- processing. I'm like, I feel like I don't even know half of what I learned through it all. But I do... Yeah, I feel a lot lighter coming out on this other side, and it might have to do with having a birthday. I'm not sure. But I do feel... Yeah, I feel lighter. I feel, Yeah, I feel... Well, I feel proud of myself. I mean, my gosh, I was sticking with something, taking risks. Like, I don't know how to golf. I took a lesson. I went golfing by myself. You know, just lots of things. I just took a lot of risks, and they might not seem like big risks to watch Days of Our Lives, but, you know, it's like, no, taking a break culturally is really not something people do, you know? And and to even just say, "I'm going to take a year and do this," is not something everybody can do. And I understand I have I have the ability to have a more flexible lifestyle, and can spend time on things. But I'm just growing more into myself is what I guess feels like after this project

Annmarie 34:33

I love that. And I love that you did the doing, and

Kate B 34:36

Yep.

Annmarie 34:36

processing,

Kate B 34:38

Yep

Annmarie 34:38

what will come out of it. Whether you decide you're going to write that memoir

Kate B 34:41

Yeah

Annmarie 34:42

to do something else with it,

Kate B 34:44

Yeah

Annmarie 34:45

opportunities. Or you do nothing with it. This is

Kate B 34:47

Yeah.

Annmarie 34:47

we don't have to monetize

Kate B 34:48

Yeah,

Annmarie 34:49

There's so much that come out of this as you sit with it, I can imagine. And, I love a good synergy. And I know you've spent quite a while now where you help people sort through physical belongings, do the organizing, and this feels like you've spent a year sorting through family stories and memories and maybe inherited experiences. Do you feel the connection between those two things?

Kate B 35:13

Yeah. Yeah. I just feel like in decluttering work, you're really trying to get to the heart of what does all this represent or, or what did it represent, and is it still true for you now? And, do you need this stuff in order for that either memory or that belief or whatever it was kind of holding, do you still need this stuff in order to, to feel that or to identify with it, or to connect with it, or to carry it through into this next part of your life? And before I started this project, I was reading all of my old journals and looking back at my old elementary school things and, and I had done, these photo projects for both of my grandmas. And so it's like kind of decluttering and peeling back, well, what do I really need out of this? What do I really want to take out of this? What are the highlights and what are the things that, you know, things I can leave behind? A lot of these projects didn't really involve physical stuff. I mean, yes, I went bowling and I, you know, used a bowling ball, but it's not like I have a bowling ball or have my grandma's bowling ball. But I still could feel, doing this project, I just got closer and closer to feeling like they were one on each side of my shoulder, and it was like they were there with me. And I guess when I work with people decluttering, there's often a lot of grief in the things, and I think that's why it's held, is it's like they haven't had a chance to, to really give it time and, or to give themselves time. Like, you know, they might keep all these things that they think represent them, but they haven't really had time to think about does it represent me and the story of my life? And so I just, I felt like this project gave me time to really, Figure out what about those relationships with my grandmas I want to keep taking, and I'm, grateful that, decluttering has really helped me continue to find out how to, how to do that

Annmarie 37:19

That's the dance between holding on and letting go, right?

Kate B 37:22

Exactly. Yeah.

Annmarie 37:23

there because I

Kate B 37:24

Yep.

Annmarie 37:25

You know?

Kate B 37:25

Yeah

Annmarie 37:26

everything we've talked about has a little bit of that flavor through

Kate B 37:29

Yep.

Annmarie 37:30

I love.

Kate B 37:31

Yep

Annmarie 37:32

And now as we get towards the end here's the

Kate B 37:35

No

Annmarie 37:36

What's the biggest thing you learned about yourself through this process? You've mentioned several things, but is

Kate B 37:41

Hmm.

Annmarie 37:42

point that stands out for you?

Kate B 37:43

I think, yeah, again, I still feel like I'm going to be processing this for a little bit, but, I think One of the big things that I learned is that I had a lot more in common with my grandmas, both of them, than I maybe thought. My Grandma H, during my childhood, she would go to Florida for six months, and so I didn't get to spend as much time with her. And when she was home, she was so, uh... Like I said, she was so active. She was gardening, she was dancing, she was golfing, she was, you know, always busy and very independent. And so to find a way in with her, God, har- it was hard. It was hard to find a way in because she just was going to do it herself and go, go, go. And, I can now find so many things that I'm like, "Well, that's Grandma H in me." And, I'm finding that Grandma B had so many routines and so many things that added structure to her life, so that she could be available to connect with her family. Like, that was really, really important to her, so she was always available when I would stop by. And, you know, she'd put things down and be able to really sit and chat and, like I said, play cards with me so I'm finding now at this stage of my life, I really... My kids are out of school. I'm really ready to be there when they're ready to connect and to be, like, ready to delight in them, and I feel like I can see that in my Grandma B, just her delight in her family and in being available for them and and connecting. So I guess I found that there were a lot of things that I, I really can identify with and that connect me more than I thought. I think I always was like, "I don't know how I fit in here. I think I was comparing a lot. Like, I'm not as athletic as, you know, some of these people in my family," or, "I don't, don't do this," or, "Oh, that's not..." You know. And, and I'm like, well, actually, there's a lot of things that really did run right down the line, you know, right to me. And without doing this project, I wouldn't have felt that feeling of these grandmas on my shoulders and, and I do. I can feel them, and so that's really... Yeah, it feels good.

Annmarie 40:02

There's a couple of big blessings in there and one of them is that you saw the delight in those women taking time for you, it wasn't duty. So many

Kate B 40:12

Hmm.

Annmarie 40:13

as women, it's our duty to take care of other people, right?

Kate B 40:16

Yeah

Annmarie 40:17

it sounds like they did it from a joy standpoint, not from a duty standpoint, and that's something that you'll get to carry forward with your kids, too. It's

Kate B 40:27

yeah

Annmarie 40:28

have to drop everything because it's my kids,"

Kate B 40:31

Yeah

Annmarie 40:31

to, "I want to set these things aside

Kate B 40:34

Yeah

Annmarie 40:35

That connection with my

Kate B 40:36

Mm-hmm.

Annmarie 40:37

whoever it may be, right?

Kate B 40:38

Yeah.

Annmarie 40:39

can

Kate B 40:39

Yeah

Annmarie 40:40

for all of us because so

Kate B 40:41

Right

Annmarie 40:42

think about what's on the to-do list,

Kate B 40:44

Yeah

Annmarie 40:45

I've really tried in my life. Now, again, you said you have more flexibility than some. Now, what you were doing could be done on nights and weekends, too,

Kate B 40:54

Mm-hmm. Yeah

Annmarie 40:55

somebody is working, but I always give that excuse, too. I'm self-employed, and I don't have kids, so oh, my

Kate B 41:00

Yeah

Annmarie 41:01

thinks I have unending time.

Kate B 41:03

Yeah

Annmarie 41:05

But if you're somebody who likes structure especially, or if you're somebody who's been... I come... My parents were farm kids,

Kate B 41:14

Mm-hmm.

Annmarie 41:14

I come from that where your family came from, too, where there's always something to do,

Kate B 41:19

Mm-hmm.

Annmarie 41:20

gotta get it done, and it's

Kate B 41:21

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm

Annmarie 41:23

But that's not real for me anymore. So

Kate B 41:25

Yeah, right

Annmarie 41:26

aside, I'm like, want you to stop and think that nothing comes before people."

Kate B 41:32

Hmm.

Annmarie 41:33

asks you for help, you do it,

Kate B 41:36

Yeah.

Annmarie 41:36

within reason obviously. There are

Kate B 41:38

Right

Annmarie 41:38

like, I'm not going to cancel a doctor's appointment if somebody wants to

Kate B 41:41

Yeah. Yeah

Annmarie 41:43

but I just think that lesson coming out of that blessing of seeing people do things out of joy, not duty, is so strong.

Kate B 41:50

Yeah

Annmarie 41:51

my second point is now completely gone from my brain.

Kate B 41:57

I'm not the only one.

Annmarie 41:58

No. it'll come back, but yeah. So I asked this earlier in our conversation, but If somebody's being pulled toward a small curiosity like this that they can't explain, what would you leave them with if we leave them with this today?

Kate B 42:14

Hmm. Yeah. I think I would just say, try to find a way to experiment with it, or just try it on even in a small way. I think those sparks come for a reason, and you're not going to know what that reason is until you, you know, dip your toe in. And this was a big project. It was a year, but that doesn't mean that you can't find a smaller way to bring something into your life. And my month of dance was so fun because I tried a lot of different kinds of dance. I went to Zumba, I went to contra dance, We went to a big band at the actual ballroom that my grandma used to go to, the Surf Ballroom. Yeah. And so did lots of things that, that were kind of like big deal things, but then I joined a dance class that's once a week and kept doing that. And so, You won't know until you try where something's going to lead. And and I have to tell this to myself all the time, but I don't have to know the end game. Like trying to golf, it was like I don't have enough money for golf lessons or golf bags or, even clubs. You know, it was like all the equipment I need, how am I going to do this? But honestly, I started with like, "I'm going to do it," and someone was able to borrow me clubs, and then I went for a lesson and decided to spend the money on that. And the instructor said, "Oh, I have a pair of clubs just sitting in my garage." And, you know, it was like they were so inexpensive, and just things continued to line up that allowed this to move forward. So just having a little, you know, giving yourself the, the courage, whether you have to get a partner to help you like say you can do it, you know, telling them your s- telling them your idea. I did tell my husband I actually prefaced it by, "I'm going to tell you about this, but I don't want any feedback." And I, and I did that because it felt so tender to me. It felt right, but it also felt tender, and I didn't want anybody else's ideas to muddle it. And so I didn't want him to start giving me ideas of what to do each month. I just wanted to let it marinade, but I wanted someone else to say "Yeah, you can do that." And sometimes that's, you know, what you need, is just someone to say, "I could see you doing that," or, "You can do that," or, "Give it a try," So you might need to also just share your little, your little idea so that you can have a cheerleader

Annmarie 44:43

I love the idea of, prefacing it with, "I'm going to share this idea, but I don't want any feedback right now," which I

Kate B 44:49

Yeah

Annmarie 44:49

should probably do because people will automatically tell you what's wrong or what's dangerous or why you

Kate B 44:57

Yep. Yep, exactly.

Annmarie 44:58

they do it out of care for the

Kate B 45:00

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm

Annmarie 45:01

parent, a sibling, whatever it may

Kate B 45:04

Yeah

Annmarie 45:04

"Oh, no, you shouldn't do that," or, "Do

Kate B 45:06

Yep.

Annmarie 45:07

to do that?"

Kate B 45:08

Yep

Annmarie 45:09

it may be, and they mean it most times

Kate B 45:13

Mm-hmm.

Annmarie 45:14

their heart, but it does shut you down a little bit, And, the other question that popped up for me was "Can I give myself a reason that will help me override the fear of stepping outside of my comfort zone?"

Kate B 45:26

Mm-hmm.

Annmarie 45:28

that would've helped push me through in many things.

Kate B 45:30

Yeah

Annmarie 45:31

I'm just too tired to go to dance class tonight." Oh,

Kate B 45:33

Yep

Annmarie 45:34

I committed to this, and I committed to my family. I committed

Kate B 45:37

Yeah

Annmarie 45:37

going through with this.

Kate B 45:39

Mm-hmm.

Annmarie 45:40

love that. Is there anything that you started doing during this year that you're going to keep doing?

Kate B 45:46

Well, it's funny that we got to the end of May, and my husband, we were sitting... We're continuing to try to still have, like, a brunch on Sundays. I just feel like that's a way for our family to connect and It's a good time for us to connect. So we were sitting and having a brunch, and, and he just said, "I'm really sad to let this project go." And it's like, it's not his project. It's my project. But just the, you know, the things that we did together and the risks we took and the new things we tried that's not going to go away. I think, you know, this season of life is about having more time without the sports of the kids and without the school schedule and all of the things. So, so that's for sure a part of the project that'll stay is, like, you know, making time to go to the driving range or trying to figure out maybe we could take a dance lesson or, you know, some of those things are going to stick. And like I said, I did start taking a dance class through the arts guild in town, and, and I hope to keep doing that. It's a great group, and it's a lot of fun. Yeah, there's a, there are a lot of things. I mean, I just, I, I think I'll be doing some more pickling and canning this year than I have ever done before because it's not that big a deal. Like, yes, it takes some prep, but the rewards are so great. Like, I made jelly beans and never had done that before, and everyone in my family loved them, and, you know, that's something I want to taste again this, this summer so yeah, there are, there are a lot of things that will, that will keep going. Not the full, you know, intensity of what I was doing in the month but in a little bit lighter, more gentle scale. And yeah, that feels good.

Annmarie 47:25

I think the piece in that last statement, with your husband commenting, "I'm not sure if I'm ready to be done with this," is that you may not go forward with, anything we set up in a project like this or what we start with, but what you did is you built a habit for play and joy.

Kate B 47:42

Mm-hmm. Yeah

Annmarie 47:44

in there that, that made your life better or stronger or more fun in a

Kate B 47:50

Mm-hmm.

Annmarie 47:50

going to give that up now, and I

Kate B 47:52

Yeah.

Annmarie 47:52

love that.

Kate B 47:53

Yeah

Annmarie 47:54

And I hope, that a lot of the women listening can really relate to this, because we all spend years being, responsible, productive, practical, useful and somewhere along the way, we stop following those little sparks you're talking about. And that's what I would like people to take from this, is that even though something might not make sense on paper, like a dance class. Though I do have to admit, I'm sitting here, and I'm looking at you, and I'm like, "You're tall and you're thin. You could tell everybody that you were a ballerina at one point, and nobody would ever dispute it." So you could just go with it.

Kate B 48:26

But you know what? I always dreamed of dancing as a child, like from being really young. And then I, then my body grew and I was like, "I don't have the body for this." Like, honestly, that's, that's been a whole route, you know? And here I am back. Like, I took one class as a kindergartner in a tutu and whatever, and that was it. And now to be able to be like, "No, you are 50 and you love to dance. You can dance. You can dance no matter what size this body is and how it..." Yeah. Yeah. So

Annmarie 48:56

who cares if you're great at it?

Kate B 48:58

Yeah.

Annmarie 48:58

piece for me sometimes is there's always this thing that pops in my head that says what if you're not good at it?" Who

Kate B 49:06

Yep.

Annmarie 49:06

Like, that's

Kate B 49:07

Yeah

Annmarie 49:07

in, in this decade of my life. So I want to thank you for being here. I know this is a personal project, and you spoke so openly about it, and I really appreciate that. And for me, I want to take away that sometimes the most meaningful adventures are those that begin with a question that won't leave us alone. So if you have that question... just do it. And for everyone listening, if this conversation did stir something in you, I hope it did, a memory or an idea or a curiosity you've been setting aside, I'm going to invite you to go check out The Wonder Project, which is my free series of small invitations that is designed to help you reconnect with creativity, play, wonder, and the parts of yourself that may have gotten buried under the responsibilities of adult life. you can think of it as a little nudge from me, and from Kate, I'm going to throw her in on this

Kate B 50:01

For sure

Annmarie 50:02

You can find that all at annmarieboyle.com/thewonderproject, or I'll also link it in the show notes. So until next time, stay curious. And go play