Coyote Cacher: The UC Coyote Alert Program

The growing incidents of human/coyote conflicts such as the encounter on the sand in Huntington Beach in April 2022 exhibit a need to discuss ways of measuring and then managing for the coexistence of the urban homeowner/gardener and the now urban coyote populations. “In the Garden with UC Master Gardeners”, explores the subject of Coyotes and a unique method of monitoring their population. Master Gardener Katrina Kirkeby talks with Dr. Niamh Quinn, the current UC Cooperative ExtensionHuman-Wildlife Interactions Advisor, for the about the subject. If you have concerns for your small children and pets in the presence of coyotes, you should know about a remarkable new interactive service that is available on the Master Gardener website. It’s called “Coyote Cacher”. You can find it here at https://ucanr.edu/sites/CoyoteCacher/. You can sign up for coyote encounter email alerts, report  sightings, and see on maps just where the reports have occurred and the level of encounter from simple sightings on up to dangerous/tragic results.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

This is In the Garden Show produced by UC Master Gardeners of Orange County, California. I am Katrina Krankabee, your Master Gardener host for the hour. Today we have a really exciting show. This is a program called In the Garden, and usually we talk about plant life. But today we're going to be talking about coyote life and especially coyotes in urban Orange County. And I'm really fortunate today to have Dr. Neve Quinn. She is the University of California Cooperative Extension Human Life Wildlife Interactions Advisor. What a title. Based at South Coast Research and Extension Center here in Irvine, California. Good morning. Welcome, Doctor. Thanks very much, Katrina. It's great to be here. I am so excited about this show today. We all know about coyotes in Orange County, and we've been having some issues in the last year or two, or many years, and they seem to be coming more and more pronounced. And today we're going to be talking about that, and we're going to be talking about this wonderful new app you have to report coyote issues. And why don't you tell us a little bit about who you are to start off with and what you do and where you're located, and we'll go from there.

SPEAKER_00 1:15

Cool. Well, I'm like I said, I'm Neve Quinn and I am the Human Wildlife Interactions Advisor for UC Cooperative Extension, and I cover human wildlife conflict issues in LA, Orange, and San Diego County. And I'm also affiliated with the statewide IPM program, so that means that I travel outside my my county sometimes to help with issues outside of those counties. And what is IPM? IPM is integrated pest management and it's all about a kind of a um a stepwise approach to pests. You know, coyotes are not generally thought of as pests, but you know, they do cause problems um to many, many people, particularly in Southern California. So some people think of them as wildlife and some people think of them as pests. Some people think that we should just leave them be and you know let them do what they do.

SPEAKER_01 2:02

You know, I think in some occasions they are just wildlife, and in some occasions they are pests. So they probably fit into more than one category.

SPEAKER_00 2:08

And I think that's true for every pest. You know, pests are generally sometimes, well not generally, but sometimes they're introduced species. So there's probably a range in which that pest is i is not considered a pest. It's actually a native species to, you know, a particular crop or um or a particular area, but then it comes to California, for instance, um something like the shithole bore, you know, and you know, it damages the trees, but you know, in its native range, it probably has um, you know, plants that it actually interacts quite well with. In the case of the coyote, coyotes are depending on where they are, they can be seen as pests or they can be seen as you know providing ecosystem services, you know, certainly in agricultural lands um and in more like wilderness areas, coyotes are generally just being coyotes and sometimes they'll attack livestock, and you know, depending on the the livestock producer, you know, that the um they may react to that differently. And some people have so many different d techniques to try and reduce livestock depredation, you know, they some of them have guard dogs for their sheep that actually kind of look like sheep to coyotes, so they're they're these white dogs that kind of sit among the the sheep and they just you know to someone from far away it just looks like another fluffy sheep, and that's what the coyote thinks as well. And so people try really hard to minimize any conflict, um, but it it doesn't always work, and so then you know you get into these issues where what do you do with the coyote that keeps coming back over and over again attacking your livestock, even though you make all these these changes, and that's kind of some of the issues we're facing now in urban California when it comes to coyotes as well. So, you know, what changes can we make to make um to reduce the conflicts?

SPEAKER_01 3:51

Exactly. Um couple questions going back to is it just my imagination, or over the last five, ten years, are we having more issues here in Orange County with coyotes and if so, why?

SPEAKER_00 4:03

So historically in Southern California, it's always been kind of a hotbed of activity for urban coyote conflicts. Um, you know, the only person to ever be killed by a coyote in the United States actually happened in Glendale in the 1980s. A little girl called Kelly Keene was actually um attacked and killed by coyotes. So it's the only ever um you know death on the on the the United States in the United States, and it happened in Southern California. So it's not like it's it's new, but is it more pronounced? Perhaps and you know, we've had so many bites in urban um Orange County in the last, you know, three years. You know, we have this this so far this year in um in Southern California, in LA and Orange anyway, which is certainly kind of one of the the hotspots, we've had um one bite in orange, and we've had three bites, I believe, on people in in LA, and I think they were in Diamond Bar and Commerce. And but years previous to that, so we've had many, many bites in Irvine. You know, Irvine is a real hotbed of coyote activity, um, and you know, certainly last year there was a a number of bites, and then the year before that in the Portola neighborhood, not too far from here, actually there were six bites in 90 days. Wow. So that's a very high frequency of conflict, and and it's not it's obviously not just isolated to one neighborhood in Irvine because it's happened two years in a row. Um why is it happening? Well, we're not really sure, you know. People say oh the drought has a lot to do with um human wildlife conflict. So what happens is is that people think that the animals are coming from the hills and coming down to take a drink of water, and so that's how we get all these conflicts. And well, what probably is happening is that the drought maybe had some influence on coyote um behavior at the you know, potentially at the start of the the drought, it put maybe put the population under um pressure, but now we have urban coyotes making m more urban coyotes and they make more urban coyotes, and so you just get this increase in population. So the propensity then to experience conflict is much higher. So, you know, is it to do with the drought? Is are we having more issues? I think we are having more issues, but we don't have a whole lot of historical data on that issue.

SPEAKER_01 6:34

What's causing the issue?

SPEAKER_00 6:35

What's causing the issue or you know, patterns and trends over the years as well. You know, we haven't been very responsible in keeping track of what is going on with um coyote issues over the last few years.

SPEAKER_01 6:46

You know, Doctor, I know we want to talk about the Coyote app, but perhaps we could also just mention, talk about a little bit about what can we do as being good stewards of the land and being just heads up, what can we do as private homeowners about trying not to to to have them bother us? What can we do in our backyard?

SPEAKER_00 7:08

Well, I think we can do a lot actually, you know. One of the number one things is that you need to remember is that you know, coyotes are are wildlife and they can survive very well on their own. So it's really important to never provide food for coyotes. And so one of the most important things we can do to be responsible citizens and help, you know, help us to coexist better with wildlife is to try and limit the food sources that are available to coyotes. And that includes you know, just simple things like making sure your yard is free from trash, making sure the streets are free from trash, making sure your trash cans are covered, making sure the the trash cans in your city are covered, and you know, and then not encouraging other animals to your yard, you know, like the bird feeder. Okay, the bird feeder. Exactly. So you wouldn't think about the bird feeder. You wouldn't think the bird feeder would be a problem, but you know, bird what happens is the birds come along, they eat the seed, it drops all over the ground, and then you get rodents and squirrels, and you know, you know, some of the the you know the the bigger animals then like the skunks and the raccoons and the possums, they come in, they start to clean up all the mess, and then you get the coyotes coming in and eating those. So the bird feeder can be a big problem, and you know, the trash can can be a big problem, and then even just even leaving out your pet food can be a big problem too. And so when we talk about integrated pest management, no matter what kind of wildlife I talk about and trying to reduce it in your yard, one of the number one things is trying to limit the food. And so if you can take in your your pet food, you know, if you if it's an option, feed your pet inside. If that's not an option, provide your your food the food to your pet for it's for a limited period of time. So, and people say, Oh, my dog, he likes to pick at his food bowl, and that's never gonna work for me. But if your dog realizes that its food's gonna be gone in an hour, well then it's gonna I mean they're very smart animals, it's gonna learn very quickly.

SPEAKER_01 9:06

My dog has learned it's got ten minutes. Exactly. Yeah, and then it doesn't get breakfast or it doesn't get the next meal till next meal time. And why do you remove the dog food from your art? Because I well, many reasons. See, I don't want b bugs, ants, anything and I didn't even think about coyotes, but coyotes I don't want them. But one thing we did do is we had issues with um our bird feeders. And I tell you, I love my bird feeders, and my bird feeders were absolutely beautiful, except I got rats and I realized I couldn't control my rats until I controlled my bird feeders. And now I don't have bird feeders, I still have beautiful birds in my yard, and my rat problem is down. But I guess since my rat problem is down, there's no coyotes looking to eat the rats that are not there.

SPEAKER_00 9:52

Yeah, and you know, we had to take it a step farther. So all all everything, like even rats and and squirrels, they're also predators of young birds and they eat eggs. So by removing those pests from your yard, you're not only potentially having an effect on, you know, what the coyotes can come to your yard and eat, but like maybe you're going to encourage more bird life to come to your yard also. So it's all, you know, the big circle of life and all that kind of cliche stuff, but it really does, you know, it'll really write down from the bird feeder to all the different types of vegetation in your yard. If you've got lots of really dense vegetation in your yard, um, and you've a yard you know, a yard in an area where we you already know that there are loads of coyotes, well then coyotes need somewhere to rest sometimes during the day. Um and they'll sit in under that vegetation and nobody can really see them. Um but that it gives them a place to hide and a place to rest and you know pr you know protection from heat or from at the minute the rain and or maybe even um you know predation and predation you know they're not really the only really predator they have is is us and the car our cars. So it's not when I say predation, I don't mean from other animals. Um the only thing that really eats coyotes is mountain lions, and if you have a mountain lion in your backyard, you've got more problems than coyote and coyote. So um so yeah, so there's low there really are a lot of things we can do. Like things like you know, keeping your pets on leashes. Okay, it's really important now. We always, you know, we have to be responsible citizens. Now the coyotes are never going anywhere, ever. The coyotes are here to stay in Orange County and they're never gonna go anywhere. We're never gonna be able to reduce their population, it's just not gonna happen. But we need to be able to better coexist um and smarter. Exactly. So we need to be and we are smarter than coyotes. Now, coyotes are very, very sm smart animals, but we're people, and you know, we are able to, you know, m make decisions that are not based on food and shelter and water. You know, we have a higher level of consciousness um to to be smarter, and so if you walk your pet in a leash, a coyote shouldn't be able to get your your pet. Now that we have had incidents where pets have been attacked on leash, and then you're talking potentially about a very aggressive coyote, and then you know, we're you may have to there may have to be some sort of upper management on that coyote. But you um, you know, if you have a free roaming cat in Orange County, it's it's basically coyote food at the minute. You know, it's you can't expect to have a free roaming cat and have it safe, you know, and and it's also ridiculously damaging to the environment in the first place. Not only do um, you know, free roaming cats they kill birds, but they also spread disease, and but they're they're you know the new white meat for coyotes, you know, they really, really are. Um and um, you know, currently we're doing an urban coyote diet study, and and what we're doing is we're kneecropsing coyotes and we're trying to figure out what they've eaten. And thus far we haven't actually, we just removed the stomachs, we haven't had a chance to go in there and and see what's in there yet, because we're gonna do some DNA analysis as well, because sometimes coyotes they'll you know they eat really quickly and they don't always eat the bones, they eat the soft bits, and so it's hard to tell when you dig in there when there's no hard parts what the coyote has been eating. So that's why we're doing the DNA analysis to make sure that we know exactly what they're eating and whether it's you know more kind of you know wild food or more kind of domesticated food, like dogs and cats and garbage and dog food and all that kind of stuff. Um so it'll be really interesting to see, but sometimes you know you can feel little skulls in there that would be the size of of cats, and you know, we don't want to see people's cats eaten, but if you don't keep them ins inside and be a responsible pet owner, well then they they're the challenges that you're facing and they're the risks that you have to take. It's kind of you know, do you do you want an outdoor cat or do you want a live indoor kitty? Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 14:02

In the neighborhood I live, I've lived there 18 years now, and I've seen one cat outside.

SPEAKER_00 14:07

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 14:08

I and I brought three city cats with me, and they never went more than well, about fifteen feet from the door. Um and they spent most of their time inside, but the one cat that I saw, it was there for about two weeks, and it discovered my bird feeder, and then it was gone. And one of my neighbors said she gave up after, I think, eleven cats. They've all been eaten by coyotes, and I went, Oh my god, goodness, I think I would have given up after one. Yeah. So yeah, and we've also noticed that we have more wildlife in our yard without having the cats in the yard. We have a lot more lizards and different things that are in the yard that are kind of really cool.

SPEAKER_00 14:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:45

That we never had when we had cats.

SPEAKER_00 14:47

Um, people forget that um, you know, that free roaming cats, whether they're feral or owned or anything, you know, they are really damaging to the environment. So maybe the coyotes are providing us uh a wonderful surprise ecosystem service where they're removing all the feral cats and resulting in some of the the more native wildlife coming back. Who knows? I mean, we don't know, you know, we really, really don't know what coyotes are eating in urban Orange County now. We've been we've kneecropsied 225 coyotes thus far. So we're gonna have a really good idea what they eat by the time we're finished our study.

SPEAKER_01 15:23

Oh my goodness, this is gonna we have another show when you're done with your study. Sure. I guess we'll have to interview you and find out what else is going on. Yeah. Now we have, I'm really excited about it, and I don't think before we take our break we'll be able to go through it all, but there is something we want to get out to the public which will be really great for the homeowners, the public, for the UC system, and it's all about coyotes and finding out more about coyotes and reporting coyotes. Could you tell us a little bit about the the new app that's out?

SPEAKER_00 15:53

I would be delighted to tell you about the new app. So the new app is called Coyote Casher. And people have already asked, oh, did you is that a typo? Was it supposed to be coyote catcher? And I was like, no, no, it's coyote casher, and casher is kind of a play on um geocache, and geocache is all about, you know, kind of it's almost like this uh um you know uh treasure hunt for um information using um GPS data. And so that's kind of what we're trying to do. We're trying to find out where the coyotes are, what they're doing, um, and exactly, you know, where they where they are, and we're we're using um you know this new app. Um it's a desktop app, it's not a native app, so it's not available at that at the app store. Um, but we'll be able to tell you some some pretty easy ways of how to get at the how to get at the the app to get the information out there.

SPEAKER_01 16:44

So let's talk about the app, but first I want to know how to get there. It's it's Coyote, and how do you spell Catcher? Casher. C-A-C-H-E-R. Spell it one more time. C-A-C-H-E-R. Now I know if you go to Google and you Google in Coyote Casher, you will come up with the app.

SPEAKER_00 17:02

Exactly, and it comes up pretty quick actually, you know. Yeah, it's the first one on my cell phone too. Um so it's really easy to um it's really easy to find. And it's even though it's a it's it's what we call a desktop app, it's so mobile friendly, and it's it's really easy to find. And um, you know, you just click on the first the first link there that that um comes up and it's you know it's and what is it?

SPEAKER_01 17:25

What tell tell us what it is? How does it benefit us? And how does it benefit you? First tell us what it is. How do we use it? Give me the whole screw.

SPEAKER_00 17:34

So it's it's it's called Coyote Casher. So basically our our main one of our main aims is to try and collect information on where the coyotes are and what they're doing. And so what we're asking citizens to do is we're asking them to come to Coyote Casher and report their coyote encounters. So what you do is you come to the app and you um on the on the first page there's two things. Um and if you're on a desktop, the they're side by side, one's called one's about alerts and one's about reporting encounters. Now, if you come to the app from a mobile device, these the um it's there's two things and they're one under the other. Okay, so you have to scroll down to find the next one. And so what we want the citizens is to do is every time they see a coyote, we want them to Google Coyote Catcher, go to the site, and we want them to report it. And so we ask them several different types of questions because we want to really get to the bottom of what's going on with coyote conflicts in in particular in Southern California, but then you know, on a statewide scale, and then you know, maybe even on a national scale to see what's going on with all these increasing conflicts in different in different metropolitan areas, especially, um, because they do appear to be increasing, but like I said, we don't really have a whole lot of historical data on what was going on and what's happening. So we're asking the citizens to help us with our science. You know, they're the ones that are out walking their dogs, they're the ones that are out, you know, um hiking, and they're on trails in urban areas, and we're really lucky in Orange County because we've got the most magnificent park system, and you know, we all interact with wildlife, and so we want people to tell us what's happening, and so we want to tell them if you know everything from if they saw a coyote or if a coyote, you know, appeared to maybe follow them or approach them. We want to know if um you know, is it an encounter involving your pet? Um, so like something like, Did your pet get attacked or was your pet chased? And then we want we get into the real nitty-gritty of it. We want to know was your pet on a leash or was your pet off a leash, and was your pet a cat or a dog or or other? And I do believe there are some kind of strange pets in Orange County. So we just want to know what's going on. We really, really want to know.

SPEAKER_01 19:48

So And it's really not that hard. I went on there and I saw, and it's most of it's you could just check boxes. It's really quick to answer the questions. And where I saw that is in my neighborhood, I want to know what's going on, and the other side of it is you could also I want to come back to this, but you can also sign up for alerts, is that correct? That is correct, yes.

SPEAKER_00 20:06

And tell me about that. So it's really important for for for me in developing this app that the citizens know what's going on in their neighborhood. And we don't want to incite panic, we really, really don't. What we're trying to do is we're trying to get citizens to be aware of the conflict. Um the the only thing I can kind of compare it to is almost like an amber alert. So if there is an amber alert, you're not really going to get let your kids play around in the yard while there is, you know, some scary person running around taking children away. But if so, with Coyote Casher, if you get a coyote alert, we want people to think, oh, there's like a coyote in the neighborhood, maybe I should, you know, take these steps to try and you know keep my pet safe or keep my family safe and to make sure that you know we reduce conflict. And what'll happen is if we know if someone reports an a an encounter in your zip code, you will get emailed in real time to tell you what happened in in your neighborhood, and then you'll be able to go in and there's an interactive map on the site as well that's really easy to use, and that'll show you exactly where the incident happened.

SPEAKER_01 21:19

So if I was on the corner of First in Main and I put it into my phone, would it show the corner of First in Maine or how close does it get?

SPEAKER_00 21:27

So it gets like I mean when we when I use the the the um the the app here um there's two ways you can do it. You can actually zoom in and click um on the map and put the position exactly where you want it to be. Because sometimes maybe you're driving your car and you see you see a coyote. We don't want people to report when they're in their car, but maybe afterwards they'll you know they'll stop and think, Oh, I should use coyote catcher and you know, input where I saw it, and so you can go you can go back and zoom into the map and just press on the map and your little flag will, you know, or a spot will pop up and and you know you answer the questions and it's really accurate. Or if it's if you see a coyote and you want to do it in real time, you can do the same thing. You can zoom in and just put it down there. But if you don't know as well there's um there's a mobile version of the site too where you just click it says um to access mobile version of this map click here and there's a little circle on the map and you just click there and it's so accurate that when I do it here in my office it zooms into the exact corner of the building that my office is in. So it's very, very accurate.

SPEAKER_01 22:33

Now what I that sounds incredible and what I see that as a use for is I can do this and if I had a coyote attack my dog and I could plug that in there anybody who's on the alert system on my street or my neighborhood would get instantaneously there is a dog that or a coyote that attacked my dog. Or could it if I I saw a sick coyote could I put that in there too and say I saw this scrawny coyote in the middle of the day staggering down the street and I think it's rap rabbit and I could put that in there and they would get the alert on that too?

SPEAKER_00 23:07

Exactly. So the way we have it um you know laid out is that you know we ha we ask so many questions and like the reason why we ask so many questions because this is science you know we really need to ask it in questions to get the important information. And so you know what we've done is we've kind of condensed them for citizens to to make it just a little bit easier to use is we condense them into alert levels. So when you sign up you get a choice of a red alert a yellow alert or a green alert. Now green alert um if you sign up for a green alert you basically get alerted about absolutely everything all the way from if a person sees a coyote all the way to if a person gets bitten by a coyote. Now if you sign up for a a yellow alert what you'll do is you'll get the yellow alerts and the red alerts. So yellow alerts are things like a pet got attacked off leash. Okay so that's kind of what we were talking about before where that you know your animal's kind of fair game now if you leave it off the leash. It's not really considered an aggressive interaction it's more just a coyote doing what a coyote does being opportunistic and seeing you know there's a really fat hairy lazy well fed cat and I can eat that instead of eating you know going after a wild rabbit or a squirrel or something like that. Exactly and they already have built in kind of predatory avoidance mechanisms. So it takes more it takes more energy for the coyote to catch the wild food and why would it do that when it's just so easy just to eat the fat fluffy cat that's right there. You know sadly. But if you sign up for the red alerts you just get the red alerts and the red alerts are what we would consider the more serious um alerts so things like obviously if a person gets bitten um if um you know a pet is attacked on the leash and and then if a pet is actually killed by a coyote. And so you know that's not always you know if a pet's killed by a coyote it's not always seen as an aggressive interaction but we think that people would really want to know if there was a pet killed in their neighborhood so we can you know we can make them aware of what's going on. And like I said it's not about being um you know being panicked it's about being prepared.

SPEAKER_01 25:17

Exactly and you know even if it didn't if it ate a dog or a kitten or a a pet in the neighborhood we all care about that. Mm-hmm and no matter what the circumstances are I know I'd want to be able to be more heads up and bring my animals inside if something was happening a few doors away or on the next block. Yeah because pets are people's family. Exactly yeah exactly. Now I also see this as a win-win because we're getting information about how to protect our pets in our neighborhood and our neighbors pets but also it's a win-win for you because you're able now to collect this data and so you're using us a little bit as a task force. So it's helping us out but it's also helping the very strained financial systems financial parts of the UC system so we could get more information and using us as your kind of little army so to speak.

SPEAKER_00 26:10

Yeah precisely and you know the the Orange County Master Gardeners are like the most wonderful group of people and you know they help extend all sorts of projects but we need this to get even further and and we want the scientists to help us or we want the the citizens to help us. So this is basically like a citizen science um uh project and you know the citizens can help each other um through the you know reporting the encounters and that will help people get alerted that have signed up signed up but also you know you're basically providing me with the data that we need to try and be better wildlife managers to figure out what is going on and and and where it's going on. And you talked about limited resources you know everybody especially when it comes to wildlife management we've got really limited resources and if we knew exactly where the conflicts were occurring we could really hone in and some of the efforts to help educate citizens to help you know in and you know maybe create an uh education programs in you know neighborhoods that are real hot spots.

SPEAKER_01 27:11

Yeah and maybe there are hot spots that are brewing right now that you don't know about and by the neighbors reporting this it now goes to you and you're going oh this area has a lot more activity than we thought. This could be a potential issue maybe it needs some of our attention.

SPEAKER_00 27:27

Yeah and that's exactly what I intended with this app because so it's not just me getting the data it's also the the external wildlife management people getting the data. So um the City Animal Services get the data and you know OC Animal Care will have access to the data if they want as well and so it you know it's all there's the potential there to be able to react to these situations. Now I'm kind of in my office or in the field I can't really go out and and um react to individual reports but there is a question down there that asks would you like this report to go to your local animal services?

SPEAKER_01 28:05

Oh how great is that I mean it's amazing right so a lot of times we have people I talk to people say I don't know who to report it to.

SPEAKER_00 28:11

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 28:12

You know nobody's listening. Yeah. And so this is an app that you could say hey we're listening this is going to go you fill this out it takes a minute or so to fill it out and you can choose to report that.

SPEAKER_00 28:23

That is brilliant. So it's great and so obviously we have to have you know your your your city engaged in this process too and so we over the last two weeks we had um several um cities animal control agencies we had a lot of police departments at two trainings we held we held one here in Irvine and we held one at the Los Angeles Agricultural Commissioner's office in Arcadia and so we kind of focus a lot in Orange County on the Orange County cities but we did have a few um cities come in from Los Angeles County as well and then in in LA we had only um Los Angeles cities but we basically covered um there was basically representatives either through you know animal services or through Orange County um animal care and or you know city representatives so city management at the meeting we covered every single city in Orange County and unincorporated Orange County so a lot of people know a lot of animal you know animal services people know about this app now and so if you do report it and you know and if you do approve to have your details furthered to the animal services that will be available and you know citizens can't can't see that feature it's a it's a backdoor and into the into the data that's you know password protected and stuff like that but you still have to approve of your you know your details going forward the animal services and you have to almost like release your coyote encounter now I have some questions about reporting this so does it automatically go to all the cities not all the cities are hooked up is it something that we can ask our cities? Definitely so it's very important to protect people's information and so we have something called the internal review board and I I don't know if the listeners will be very familiar with those kind of processes but it's very important for us that we build a system that even the so that the people's information is protected because we're asking for people's names we're asking for their phone numbers we're asking for their email addresses so all of that information is um protected on the on a secure server it at UC Davis and because that's kind of the the where the brains of our operation um tend to be. And so what you do is then when you when we ask you um to um if you want your information furthered to an animal services um you know in your in your area that's when you release your information okay and it's completely voluntary you do not have to do it if you do not want to do it. So it's very private what what you're doing but if you want to release it to the local So if you want yeah if you want a phone call from your your your animal services that gives them ability then to see the their your phone number or your email address because otherwise how would they know? Okay and so what it is is they It also protects them from one person calling over and over and over again about the same exactly and that's not you know we don't mind if you see the same coyote every day and you want to report it we would love that. You know that's good for us to know you know that's that's that's that's the the ideal situation would be if everybody knows about the app and that every time they see a coyote they report it. Okay that's how we get the most accurate information. But back to the the privacy of the data and you know that is an important part to us but we can't have the cities react to it unless you know the citizens actually release that information. And so we actually made that that question required because we want people to say yes I would like a call or no I would like a call. And so it doesn't guarantee a call because once again like we said we have to have the cities engaged. So you know we have um you know cities that will really want to use this system but some other cities already have systems in place. Now that doesn't mean that I won't have access to that data but it won't necessarily be in on the coyote cash or Mac. Does that make sense? Absolutely yeah so some cities already have really really great um you know uh kind of coyote reporting procedures already in place and some cities do most cities don't unfortunately and I you know I I always say this but you can't manage what you can't measure and so if you don't have any data to react to then you don't really have any business to react.

SPEAKER_01 32:37

Is this something that people could actually call their city and say can you put can you hook up to this? Yeah exactly Okay who would they call? In their city? Yeah like if I live in X City and I'd love to have this as part of I'd like to my people to know about it the animal control and everybody else to know about who would I call to say can you put can you hook up to this?

SPEAKER_00 32:59

Well there's probably two types of people you could call you could call someone in the city manager's office definitely and but the other type of people are it depends do you does your city have an animal services in their city because some cities in Orange County are contracted out to Orange County animal care and control and some cities have their own animal services so um Costa Mesa has their own animal services Newport Beach has their own animal services Laguna Beach and Laguna Woods they're the same animal services and let me think my geography of Orange County is starting to fail me now I think Dana Point and San Clemente I think they have their own animal services. Yes what does that mean? It means all sorts of things and it can be very um you know each animal service they're very uh individual I'd say you know they some of them provide um different services most of it is is domestic animals because that's the kind of animal services you would expect from an urban a very densely urban area like Orange County but things have changed in Orange County now we have you know and not now but we've always had you know really beautiful parks and really nice wilderness areas right in the middle of our cities like right in the middle of our cities you think of like places like Laguna Canyon you think of like you know places like North Tuston Orange Irvine Anaheim Yorbelinda they all you know back up into these wonderful kind of wilderness areas so you know not only have we always had coyotes we've always had skunks and raccoons and you know the odd mountain lions b bobcats you know we have so now animal services are you know have to interact with these on some level and remember what we said earlier on you know cats are a food source now and you know animal services have a big part to play in that sometimes you know sometimes um cities or animal services have big you know feral cat programs and they do trap neuterin release and they release the cats back into the environment and are they creating a bigger problem? Are we actually feeding more coyotes because of these feral cat programs? We don't know that's something that we're actually looking into with the um Cal State Fullerton and we have a really great master student and she's helping with the diet study but she's also looking at um you know where different um cat colonies are because cat colonies are maintained populations of feral cats and what happens is is that they provide food for cats but now it looks like they're not just providing food for cats they're providing food for coyotes too and I just I don't mean that the coyotes are eating the cats. The coyotes are also coming to these colonies and eating the food that people have left for the cats. And so it's almost like a double whammy now. Now we have you know the food to feed the feral cats that the coyotes can eat but then you've got the food that maintains the feral cats that the coyotes can also eat. They can eat the feral cats themselves. So it's yeah it's a big difficult. Yeah it is difficult. You know people really like um you know um cats but cats are pets domestic animals are for people inside. Feral cats um like I said you know there's so many diseases associated with cats in general you know because they have fleas and fleas are huge vectors of disease and so it's really important that we try and you know control things like that like um like um typhus typhus is a typhus is a disease that we have here in Orange County they have it in LA County as well and I think one of the other few places that they have in in um in the United States is Texas that has typhus and people die from typhus and people in Orange County have died from typhus. And cats carry it. And cats carry the fleas that carry the typhus and we're actually looking to see if the coyotes carry that disease too because we've we've figured out that pharaoh cats and coyotes spend so much you know either spend time together or occupy the same spaces now. So we want to make sure that coyotes aren't also going to be a carryout the fleas that are vectors of this disease. And so it's it's such a complicated cycle of you know food and space and disease and and it's important to be aware of these things because you said earlier about you know maybe reporting a rabid coyote we haven't had rabies in a coyote for years and years and years in Orange County. But there are other issues like you know carnivores are actually really good sentinels of plague. Now we haven't had a plague positive animal in Orange County for a really long time but it's you know if we we test all our coyotes for plague and that would give us a really good indication as if there was like a squirrel population with a really bad plague issue. And so it's really it's so interesting you know this whole like you know urban wildlife interface issue and all the different diseases and then all the introduced animals and then all the predators in on top of it and how they all interact and we don't really have a whole lot of information about what's going on.

SPEAKER_01 37:58

Oh my goodness. I want to stop for just a second and tell everybody because some people that are listening to the show are driving around and so we're talking about an app called Coyote Casher. And how do you spell that? C-A-C-H-E-R. Google that if you want to find out when coyotes are in your neighborhood or if you want to report coyotes Google Coyote Casher. It's private for the most part and you'll find out more about that and it could help you report issues with coyotes or sightings with coyotes and it could also let your neighbors know and you could also be put on an alert when there's a coyote in your neighborhood. So just a quick I know we're on a train of thought but just in case somebody's driving and didn't catch what we're talking about. Also you can go to our Master Gardener UC Master Gardeners of Orange County website and that this show will be on the website and you can listen to it there and you can hear it in full length there. And you could also is there what how would we find out about coyotes if we want to Google coyotes any UC websites sure there is.

SPEAKER_00 38:58

I mean I think you kind of hit the nail on the head there it's very important when you're researching you know different animals to make sure that you go to a reliable source and because there's a lot of misinformation out there and a lot of misinformation about everything out there and that also includes coyotes. So you know we do have a lot of um UC resources I think um a really good um resource is the UC IPM um website and you know if you go to UC IPM um I I don't know what their address do you know what their address is can they just google UC IPM you could use IP our people are driving out there so I tell everybody to Google UC IPM University of California integrative pest management. And they have a range of really great pest notes that I'm sure your listeners hear about all the time because they cover everything from plants to viruses to insects but there's also a really great wildlife section and the coyotes are in there too and it gives some tips and some tricks about you know trying to be you know more responsible and also what kind of conflicts you could expect if there are coyotes in your in your neighborhood where should we go from here? Wherever you want. We can talk more about coyotes or we can talk more about other wildlife.

SPEAKER_01 40:07

Well I think what uh coyotes we've covered what we can do in our yard.

SPEAKER_00 40:11

It's like just be really mindful keeping stuff out of our yard uh keeping food things that they would like keeping our animals on leashes um overgrowth in our yard there are other things you can do too you know there's you know you can try and exclude coyotes and it's difficult so coyotes can um jump uh clear can easily clear a six foot fence or wall I thought they could jump a lot higher than that so that's what I mean they can easily clear a six foot so people say up to eight foot but I understand that in Orange County there's lots of different city ordinances that means that you can't you know you couldn't have an eight foot wall so there's there's a few few things you could try. So one of the things is you could put some sort of a roller on the top of your um the top of your fence at the top of your wall and that basically what it does is is it's the roller is kind of free moving. So when the coyote um goes to jump or try and get a foothold on the top of your wall or your fence line it hits the roller and it slides off. Does that make sense? That's brilliant. Yeah so I understand that your listeners can't can't hear my hands moving but but if they basically roll off it and I think it kind of serves two purposes because if you have um pets that are escape artists it also works the other way round so they can get a foothold on the inside of your yard to try and get out. So we have no efficacy on whether you know the like how effective these things are but you know I think we should be trying everything to do it. Now the other thing um that's important is that you know a lot of people have backyard poultry. A lot of people some people have you know bunnies and things like that and it's important to try and protect them as well. You know people some people see them as pets and some people don't but it's still a food source to the coyote so it's important to you know make sure that they're enclosed and coyotes are generally nocturnal but everybody that's listened to this has probably seen a coyote out and about during the day in in Orange County and it's not unusual behavior. It's not considered you know weird or you know that coyote's up to something. That coyote's just been a coyote. Probably what's happened is coyotes are you know they're very well known to switch prey. So what does that mean? It means that you know they could be you know go to a place and they're like rabbit, rabbit, rabbit eating another rabbit oh there's another rabbit e-e. They don't care what they eat for dinner so they can have rabbit every single day of the of the week but all of a sudden either they're they all switch their prey resources. All of a sudden it could be squirrel, squirrel, squirrel, squirrel, squirrel. Now in an urban environment there's so many prey resources and you know coyotes are attacking pets and killing pets and when are we when are our pets most active?

SPEAKER_01 42:58

During the day.

SPEAKER_00 42:59

During the day and that could be potentially why we're seeing more coyotes out during the day is because their prey resources are very active during the day. So who knows? Like really who knows what's happening but it's seeing a coyote during the day is not abnormal. I see them all the time during the day all the time. Yeah and I live up in the hills is normal. Well I don't live in the hills I live in you know Huntington Beach and I drive through Costa Mesa and then I drive through Newport Beach and then I end up in Irvine and I see them all the time. I don't drive by any wilderness you know we I just see them everywhere. Wow and and so they're very very urban you know they're they don't rely necessarily on large open spaces you know I don't know if you know this but there are packs of coyotes living in downtown Chicago.

SPEAKER_01 43:48

I heard also in New York.

SPEAKER_00 43:50

And in New York yeah and so they're very urbanized. Oh my god so urban they're so they're such wonderful animals. They're very very adaptable you know they don't really like I said they can switch their Prey really easily. Or do you mean like tr trash and trash cans? Exactly, like trash and trash cans or dog food on the you know the back step of your doorway or unfortunately your pets. And that's something that we don't we don't want that to happen, you know. And I, you know, I understand that, you know, feral cats, you know, they they cause a lot of damage to the environment, but I don't want to see a cat, you know, eaten, and I don't want someone that, you know, a caretaker of a colony to come across anything like that. You know, that's really upsetting. But it's important that we do as much as we can do to protect our resources. And that includes like our family members, our hairy family members and our children, you know. And ourselves. Exactly. And so, you know, we don't want them to become aggressive. No, we want to try and keep them as afraid of people as as possible. And and what happens is, you know, we have like these bad actors, and you know, so cities are kind of being forced to, you know, try and do something about that. And unfortunately, that sometimes r results in a lethal control problem pro or like program. Um, but what do you do when coyotes are biting humans?

SPEAKER_01 45:02

It's kind of like the bears up in the backcountry. Yeah. If you keep leaving food out for the bears, then they're gonna start breaking into your car, and then all of a sudden you have an aggressive bear, and then you have to kill the bear.

SPEAKER_00 45:12

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 45:12

Which is really sad because we left food in our car, or food on our picnic table.

SPEAKER_00 45:16

But we, you know, they're they're likely that there are um coyotes that are beyond hazing, and we haven't really talked a lot about hazing either. And hazing is something that's kind of built into the app a little bit as well. Um because can we talk about it? Sure, yeah. Tell me about hazing. What is hazing? So hazing is basically trying to somehow condition a coyote. So we're trying to change its attitude towards humans, we're trying to make them either keep them afraid or make them afraid. Um and so what they suggest with hazing is that you make yourself really big and you wave your arms about and you make loads of noises. And um, I had um, you know, in Newport Beach, the animal um the animal control there, they had, you know, whistles to try to help people haze. And I think in Costa Mesa they had like different like cans that, you know, like you could like shake and they made like you know, like really loud noises and stuff like that. And um, you know, they they kind of um are supposed to make the coyote afraid. Um do they work? I have absolutely no idea if hazing works.

SPEAKER_01 46:23

But we could find out through people using this app because they might not have clickers with them or whatever, but they could yell and scream. Yeah, and they could see how the coyotes act and react and report it back to you. So that would be good research for the UC system, not only knowing that there's a coyote in the neighborhood, knowing what they did. Now we're not telling you to go chase the coyote or get in conflict with the coyote, we're just talking about yelling, screaming, stomping, and don't don't interfere with the coyote.

SPEAKER_00 46:50

Yeah, we don't we it's not, you know, you could approach a perfectly healthy coyote, you know, and it should run away. But if that coyote doesn't run away, you know, there's something not right there. Okay, it's it's probably lost, it's natural fear of humans. And you need to know about it. Yeah, and so we want to know that stuff. You're our line of defense, right? I hope so, because we want to make better wildlife decisions. You know, maybe if um coyotes are reacting really well to hazing, well, maybe we need to make it part of school programs. And we're not saying that we should you should send the kids out there and you know, these little these little people that look like prey to haze coyotes, but maybe they need to know more about like, you know, these non-lethal control methods. But I cannot write as as of now we have zero data on how effective hazing is, and we don't know if it's just effective in the short term or if it actually has any effects in the long term. And we need to know these things because if we have better alternatives to lethal management, which we currently don't really have, um we need to know about them because you know nobody wants to go out there and kill a coyote. Nobody, absolutely nobody. So that's not the ideal situation for anybody. Well, this would be great if we could all do that, right?

SPEAKER_01 48:03

So everybody listening, if you can just do what is the name of the app again? It's coyote casher. And if you just Google um coyote and then C-A-C-H-E-R. And sign up for the both the alerts. And also you can also put down if you've seen a coyote, if you have tried to haze it, if it has bothered you, what you've done, and it really, really, really helps out. It's not only for you, but it's for you and your neighbors, and if your neighbors, if you know about this, tell your neighbors. You know, try to get your neighbors involved. And if you um we have a uh app, you could put it on Facebook, social media, and try to get your community involved with this because the more people that know about this app, the more people that will be using it, the safer you'll be, the more educated the UC system will be, and the better we'll be able to deal with our interactions with coyotes. Is that correct? That's totally right.

SPEAKER_00 48:54

You know, we're not, you know, all of this is all voluntary. So you don't have to sign up for alerts if you don't really want to sign up for alerts. But if you could, it would be really great that every time you see you have an encounter, you put it in there. So someone in your neighborhood that does care if the coyote's there and that has signed up for alert will be alerted to the presence of coyotes because you know you could potentially be saving your pet or a neighbor's pet or a potential aggressive interaction between maybe a coyote and a human.

SPEAKER_01 49:23

And you could really be helping the UC system out.

SPEAKER_00 49:26

Not only just the UC system, but like all the people that like all the cities that have to manage coyotes, all the organizations, you know, the California Department of Fish and Wildlife, you know, this data could really h help us make and drive some really great, you know, coyote management plans.

SPEAKER_01 49:42

And I think I hear a lot a lot of us are really concerned about coyotes and it seems to be more and more coming into the urban areas and it it'd be protecting us. Yeah, you know, I think we you know, I think it's one of those things we kind of give back, but then it's really about us in the long term because you never know when that coyote's next to you. That dangerous coyote.

SPEAKER_00 50:00

You know, people shouldn't think that coyotes are dangerous because they're not all of them are. It's you know, it's the same way people are not always dangerous, but some of them are. And so, but we need to be like I talked about, you know, you know, twenty years ago most people didn't lock their door. Okay? Now almost everybody locks their door, or hopefully. Um so you know, we want to just change people's behavior slightly. You know, it's not really acceptable to let your pet like freely roam anymore. It's actually illegal in some cities. Um and so, you know, you have to keep your pet in a leash. And you know, it's it's important to just remember that, you know, by helping us get better science, we can help your the cities make better decisions, but we can also, you know, you the citizen can help your neighbors just you know, and you're not just talking about protecting people, pets, and children, you're also talking about you know, protecting the coyotes because you know you're you know you're you're reducing the conflict. So um, you know, there's there's you know, that's that's just the way it is.

SPEAKER_01 51:02

And so hopefully You know, a lot of us do care about the coyotes. You know, we feel that they've been here before us, they have rights. It's we're the ones that we're the ones that are going into their territory, but we also want to be safe. So if you're thinking in the best interests of the coyotes, this is a good thing to do too.

SPEAKER_00 51:17

Yeah, and like you know, the coyotes kind of have uh they have yeah, they have rights, but they also have responsibilities, and their responsibility is to be a wild animal and be afraid of humans. Okay, and it's not happening all the time. So how do you react to that? That's kind of up to the individual city, um, but if you don't react appropriately, you know, it's it's not always great, you know, and we do get bites, and we've had bites in several cities last year in Orange County, and nobody wants to go there. You know, nobody. That's like um you know, that's traumatizing, it's just you know, it's potentially very, very dangerous. Um a lot of the attacks on children in in um in Orange County have been ambush attacks where the coyote has gone straight for the neck or the head. Oh, geez. So it is very it it can be very dangerous. Now, most coyotes do not act like that, okay? We don't want people to think that, oh my god, there's a coyote, you know, you should respect the animal, they're very beautiful. I'm up close to coyotes all the time, so I get to really appreciate like how amazing their coats are, and they're very dense and you know, actually quite soft, and you know, their eyes are this amazing yellow colour, and and you know, you see their big strong teeth, but you have to understand that those teeth have potential to cause damage. Um and I used to work all the time in outdoor education, and the kids will always ask, Oh, can can it does it bite? Well, anything but a mouse can bite you. Okay, and that's important to to understand. But you know, the you know, the majority of the coyotes in Orange County act like coyotes, they you know, they don't take risks, which is what would happen if it came close to a human. Um, but we have a a certain percentage, it seems, that are taking very high level risks coming very close to humans, biting adults. So these are not just hum or like not just attacks on kids, also several of them are on adults. And that's a screwy coyote there. There's not just just something not right there. Um, you know, that kind of thing. And you need to know about it. Yes, we need to know about it. You know, we need to, you know, we need to alert the animal control agencies, which the you know, if your animal control agency, like we said, is involved and engaged in this process, they'll already have, you know, the passwords and stuff to get into that data. Um, so yeah.

SPEAKER_01 53:27

Well, Doctor, we're coming to the close. We have a couple more minutes left. What would be your closing thoughts on today?

SPEAKER_00 53:33

Well, we would just really like to uh, you know, help people out with these issues. You know, we don't want um, you know, it's not all just about me, it's it's about you. Okay, it's about you. It's about you trying to get, you know, be safer, be more engaged, helping your neighbors um not lose their pets, and just letting them be aware of what's going on. And you know, don't panic. Coyotes are not coming after, you know, your children and your pets, but you know, keep your um, I was about to say keep your children on a leash. You can do that if you wanted to, but we won't go there today. Keep your pets on a leash, keep your, you know, if you know that there are coyote conflicts in your neighborhood, maybe you don't want your kids to play next to dense vegetation. Where you maybe keep your food in the dog food in the house and your animal food in the house and watch out for bird feeders and bird feeders are the you know the start and the finish of all sorts of different issues, like you said, with your with your rodent problems, and you still have loads of birds in your yard, right?

SPEAKER_01 54:32

Oh, um I could show you pictures. I have egrets and herons and birds. It's just it's wonderful.

SPEAKER_00 54:37

Yeah, so you know, there are so many opportunities with this app for you know the citizens to help inform the scientists, but then for the scientists to come back and help inform the citizens as well. So what is the name of the app again? And how do you spell it? It's Coyote Casher, and you spell casher C-A-C-H-E-R. And you can just Google it, it's really easy. I think for myself and yourself it comes up very, very, you know, the very, very first link. Um, and if you if you need more information, there's you know information on how to you know coexist with coyotes in urban areas, but then there's also the interactive map that not will just not show you what's going on in in your neighborhood, um, but it'll show you what's going on in other other neighborhoods as well. So we're hoping that eventually all the neighborhoods will be all engaged and we'll know exactly where all the coyotes are.

SPEAKER_01 55:23

That will that would be wonderful. And if you have any other questions that we haven't answered today, you all you could also Google Master Gardeners of Orange County, California. That's UC, University of California, Master Gardeners of Orange County, California, and our homepage will pop up and there's something called Ask a Question and a Hotline. And we have a group of people that love answering questions, and it could be about coyotes, it could be about a plant in your yard. But feel free if you have any questions, just Google UC Master Gardeners of Orange County, California. Make sure you put California in there because you could end up in New York or Florida. And on the left-hand side there is ask a question. And so you could ask questions there. You can also go on tell us about our website again. The Coyote Catcher.

SPEAKER_00 56:10

The Coyote Casher. So the site address of Coyote Casher.

SPEAKER_01 56:13

And easier just write Coyote Cash in Google. That's how I go there. Alrighty. Well, thank you so much for being with us today. I really appreciate all the information. And I think our listening audience, I hope you guys will look up this app because I think it'll it's important. It'll help all of us. It's it's something that doesn't help just one person, but it could help ourselves, and it could help our neighbors, it could help management of coyotes on the long term in Orange County. So please check that out if you have time. We'd really appreciate it, and we could really use your help. And I am Katrina Kirkabee, and I'm your Master Gardener host of the day, and I thank you all for being with me. And until next week, have a joyous week.