Carnivorous Plants

 Plants that eat bugs? You read that right! You know gardeners need to control bad bugs eating our beautiful gardens, right? But believe it or not, there are certain types of plants that seek their nourishment from insects and others that become trapped in specialized plant parts like sticky leaves or deep pitcher-like appendages. We know them as Carnivorous plants. In The Garden with UC Master Gardeners, Master Gardener Bill Brooks meets with John Kim, Master Gardener and President of the Southern California Carnivorous Plant Enthusiasts (SCCPE or “Skippy” for short). Your mind might go right away to a Venus Flytrap. But that only scratches the surface of carnivorous plants. This episode focuses on what carnivorous plants are, how to grow them, and just about everything you need to know about these most unusual plants! 

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

This is In the Garden with your host Bill, University of California Master Gardener. Carnivorous plant. Sounds like an oxymoron, but there is such a thing as a carnivorous plant. We'll be talking about these amazing plants in today's show. We're fortunate to have Master Gardener and Carnivorous Plant Expert John Kim with us today, and John is also part of the radio show. So you have actually two hosts doing this. So welcome, John. Please tell us a little about yourself and your interest in carnivorous plants.

SPEAKER_00 0:33

Hi Bill. So my interest in carnivorous plants, as with many people, kind of started off when I was very young. A lot of kids see moving plants or plants that eat bugs and flip the script and find it very interesting. The other commonality that I have with most people is generally speaking, when you first start out, especially when you're six or seven years old, you struggle to keep it alive. So I'll say that you try carnivorous plants, but you don't really succeed. And then I grew older and did other things, became an adult, and about ten years ago, you know, I was growing other plants, I was in a bunch of other clubs, primarily aquatic plants. So for the listeners that aren't familiar, there is a an aquarium hobby that involves live plants. I call it underwater gardening, but um the more popular term is aquascaping. And uh one of the plants that is very commonly used as a ground cover plant uh underwater is a type of utricularia, and it looks like a grass, but I you know when I was in that hobby um and I kept overhearing like this joke uh amongst hobbyists saying, Oh, you know, that's a carnivorous plant, so you need to be careful with that, you know, and they would laugh. And I was like, Are they serious? What do you mean a carnivorous plant underwater? Like that's even more weird. And so I st I did a little bit of homework, and sure enough, the Tricularia is a carnivorous plant, and that's so that kind of rekindled my interest in these uh plants that eat other organisms. And um, let's fast forward to today, you know, a a few years ago, um, I actually started a carnivorous plant society, a nonprofit that's based here in Orange County. Um, we are called the Southern California Carnivorous Plant Enthusiasts. Um, and we have meetings in Costa Mesa, but we also attend events um throughout the county as well as you know other places as well. So, yeah, in a nutshell, that's kind of um how I got involved in what I'm doing right now.

SPEAKER_01 2:47

Okay, well, we definitely want to mention that throughout the show because I think you're going to really get people's interest and get them going. I know I'd love to have a carnivorous plant in my front yard that ate the annoying neighbor kid, but I don't think such a plant exists. Anyway, so what do you have a website for that?

SPEAKER_00 3:05

Oh, for the club? I sure do. It's um so the name is very long, Southern California Carnivorous Plant Enthusiast. So the uh letters, the acronym is SCCPE. Uh we just call it SCPI for short. And so if you go to scorg, um that is our website. You can find information about our meetings, our club bylaws. Um, if anybody's interested in becoming a member, there's information there. Um but one of the things that we as a group are very passionate about, because we all started somewhere, is um distributing knowledge, kind of like the Master Gardeners do. We're really heavily focused on um sharing information, and so our meetings are completely open to the public. Um, they're free to participate and join. So if anybody wants to just check it out, you know, don't no obligation, just come hang out. We always like seeing new people and things like that. So no no obligation, you know, just it's super fun.

SPEAKER_01 4:04

Well, you you may get some new uh some new people wanting to check things out. So let's start from the beginning, and we all know plants photosynthesize to obtain their energy. So, how can there be such a thing as a carnivorous plant?

SPEAKER_00 4:18

So um, when we go to these events and have our meetings, and a lot of new people come and ask about plants, and it's their first time seeing these things, they often ask, like, what do I need to feed it? You know, how do I get the bugs? And um, at the end of the day, the plants are plants first. So they get the vast majority of their energy through photosynthesis. Uh, most carnivorous plants um are grown or naturally found in areas that just have uh poor nutrient soils. So some are epiphytic, some are terrestrial, and like I mentioned earlier, some are aquatic, but they just come from environments that have low nutrients. And so, in order to get the additional nutrients that quote unquote traditional plants uh take up through their roots, they've evolved the carnivore, uh most of them through a modified leaf. Um but they do photosynthesize, and that is where they get most of their energy. And carnivorous plants in general, you don't need to feed them, they can be kept uh without bugs around, and they'll do just fine as long as they have the proper light source.

SPEAKER_01 5:25

Okay, we'll we and we'll get into that when we get into the care, that's for sure. So, approximately how many species of carnivorous plants are there, and where on the planet Earth do these do these unique plants live?

SPEAKER_00 5:39

So, like other organisms, whether plants or animals, um, there is the ongoing battle of lumpers and splitters with taxonomy of carnivorous plants. And so currently the ballpark figure that everybody kind of agrees to is about 750 species, and that is divided up into 12 or 15 different genus of plants that exhibit the carnivorous behavior. Amazing, yeah, and and where they're found, um, they're actually found in all parts of the world, every continent, every island, uh, except the Arctics. So aside from the very tippy uh top and bottom of our poles, um, they are all over the world and they have um evolved different mechanisms, which we'll talk about of carnivore.

SPEAKER_01 6:29

So that means that there's probably some that are native to the United States. Could you tell us about those plants?

SPEAKER_00 6:36

Right. So when you hear carnivorous plants, um most people right away think Venus flytrap.

SPEAKER_02 6:44

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 6:45

Right, and uh what they most people don't know is that Venus flytraps are native to the United States.

SPEAKER_02 6:51

Oh.

SPEAKER_00 6:52

A very small range. And so uh Venus flytraps are found in the southeastern United States, um, along with several other genus of carnivorous plants. So the North American pitcher plant, which has a all tube-shaped leaf, uh, hence pitcher, um, their genus is Seracenia, and there are many species uh within that genus, uh are also found in the southeastern United States, actually across the eastern coast. Um, some go all the way up to uh Montana, New York, and even up into Canada. Um then, yeah, another genus that's very, very prevalent throughout the world, the Droscera, is also found um throughout the United States, including California. And so, speaking of California, we do have one very special carnivorous plant. Um, it is a Darlingtonia Californica, is the scientific name. Um, it is a single species genus of Darlingtonia. The name is Cobra lily. Um, and if folks uh whip out their cell phones and do a quick look of Darlingtonia, they'll see. Um it's a very interesting looking plant. It's got two extended uh ends of its leaf structure that look like fangs, snake fangs, and the top is rounded, so it looks like a cobra's head and hood. And so that's called a cobra lily, and that's found in Northern California and some parts of Oregon. And so that's a very special one that is native to California.

SPEAKER_01 8:25

Yeah, and it it probably is endemic here too, because I'm sure it's on the coastal side of the mountain ranges, which is one of the things that makes our state so unique for plants.

SPEAKER_00 8:35

Right. And uh, you know, it's called Darlingtonia, Californica, but like I mentioned, it does grow in sort of Oregon, because plants don't uh they apparently don't care about uh political boundaries.

SPEAKER_01 8:48

Yeah, no, they don't, that's for sure. So can you talk a little bit about the size of these plants? Are they tiny, large? How big of an animal could they consume?

SPEAKER_00 8:57

Yes. So just generally speaking, of carnivorous plants, they are some of them are teeny tiny where um you need microscopes to see the structures that are carnivorous. Um and then some get quite large. So the tropical pitcher plant or in the penthes that are grown um in the Asian islands, um Borneo, Philippines, uh like that. So those are vining plants, so they can just grow long forever in the jungles, and so it's kind of weird um to measure that plant because it is a vine. Right. Um, but they can get very, very long. Um, some of the pictures, the actual carnivorous mechanism or the leaf structure of the Nepenthes, can get large enough to trap and consume uh mammals and birds.

SPEAKER_01 9:51

No kidding. So this would be like the rainforests of Borneo and Indonesia in this area of the world. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 9:58

Right. So there are some uh large specimen plants up in the Bay Area at the conservatory in San Francisco that have traps that do catch rats from time to time.

SPEAKER_01 10:10

Oh. It'd be nice to have a plant that caught rats in your yard, that's for sure. Yeah. And so they're using these, I trust, they're catching insects and other life because they thrive in nutrient uh poor soil, so they're gaining their nitrogen and their other nutrients in that manner. Is that correct?

SPEAKER_00 10:32

Right. So essentially what they're doing is they're foliar feeding. Like many plants can foliar feed, um, carnivorous plants just uh do it a little bit better, I'll say. Um, but what defines and makes a carnivorous plant different from other plants that can foliar feed is that it has the ability to attract, capture, and break down the tissues of its prey directly. So other organisms will rely on the animal byproducts, like something else will eat an animal and uh defecate, and it'll use that uh nitrogen cycle or ammonia cycle to get its nutrients. Carnivorous plants produce their own enzymes that will break down the tissues of their prey and then foliar feed directly out of the product of that process.

SPEAKER_01 11:20

So that is a specialized adaptation that these plants have.

SPEAKER_00 11:24

To be considered uh carnivorous, you need to have those enzymes.

unknown 11:27

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 11:28

And uh fun fact, there is a uh small group, I'll say, of um research going on at UCI on campus, that is uh mapping the DNA and the genomes and identifying enzymes of various carnivorous plants. Um there's a professor down there, um Rachel Martin, who has uh some a lab and some students that do projects to do that.

SPEAKER_01 11:54

So I would imagine that as as we discover science as science unfolds before us every day, we discover new things that some of these enzymes might be beneficial to humans in one way or the other.

SPEAKER_02 12:07

Could be, could be.

SPEAKER_01 12:09

Yeah, so how do these plants attract their prey and catch them? I'm sure there's more than one method.

SPEAKER_00 12:16

So there's uh a lot of different methods, but the trapping mechanism or plants, the carnivorous plants are divided into various groups that describe how they attract and capture their prey. So um I guess we can go into that first and then we can talk about how they attract them. Yeah, that would be great. Um, so there's a category called the pitfall traps, where various organisms will fall into some sort of containment or apparatus. Uh most of those um produce a fluid on the leaf or in the leaf that attracts insects or mammals in some cases, where uh the insect is attracted to something shiny and liquid, and all animals uh need water to survive, to hydrate. Yes. And so they're attracted to that. Some of them do have scents or other mechanisms that attract them, but the pitfall traps are known to have the shape and structure that encourages uh an organism to approach, to fall in, and they get stuck. So some of them have sticky does, some of them have hairs that point downward. Um, some of the saracenia in particular on the hood, um, like the minor um will have what are called windows, clear portions of the leaf that trick insects to attract them to go that way to try to exit the picture, and then they get stuck inevitably, and then they tire themselves out and die inside the leaf.

SPEAKER_01 13:49

And then and I do some of them have odors? Is that a is that a way?

SPEAKER_00 13:54

Some of them do, yeah. Some of them do have scents, and some of them um do have different UV colors that various insects can see that we cannot but generally speaking, the most attractive part um is likely the liquid, the glistening dew that it produces. Um and that is also where the enzymes are found that um break down the tissues. Um so those are the pitfall traps. And then there's another large category, probably the bigger category are what are the sticky traps. Or, you know, on online there they say they have fly paper traps, but they'll catch anything that sticks to them, and it's not exclusive to flies. But these sticky trap plants, which include um sundews, which are the drosseras, or butterworts, which are the pinguiculas, they actually have a glistening surface on the outside of the leaf.

SPEAKER_01 14:42

I see, so then things get stuck. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:44

Right. Various uh insects usually will be attracted to that and get stuck. But they're very sticky and they're very wet on the outside. And a lot of them actually um have a little hair-like structure that extends out from the leaf, and then the dew is a droplet on the end of that structure. Um, so it's even elevated, so in the wind or something, it'll move. There's a little bit of movement, and so it looks wetter and bigger than it actually is. Um, and so those are the sticky traps. And then there's everybody's favorite, like I mentioned, the Venus flytrap, is what are called the trap plants, the the plants that actually move and capture their prey. And there's only a couple of uh carnivorous plants that do that, of course, the Venus flytrap being the most famous. There is an underwater uh bladder wart that has a similar mechanism underwater where little uh by uh microorganisms in the water will swim near it and it actually opens, creating a vacuum and sucks in the prey into a little bladder structure, and then it gets digested in there. Um and then there's a there's a actually a combination plant, a sticky droscera, that um there's a couple of them where the more the insect moves, the more it closes in on it. So a drossera capensis is a very common and popular plant, but that's um the long tentacles will curl around the fly or whatever it traps, the more it moves. So it actually does move. Um so those, you know, in a in a broad sense, those are kind of the most popular or the most common um trapping mechanisms and attracting mechanisms that various carnivorous plants have evolved to utilize.

SPEAKER_01 16:28

Yeah, and I think you've I think we've covered this, but we'll touch on it a little bit that since carnivorous plants lack a stomach, I believe you said they digest their food through various enzymes.

SPEAKER_00 16:40

That is correct. So the enzymes and the different plants have different enzymes, and they're they're kind of identifying those. Some of them have multiple enzymes, and that breaks down uh, for the most part, the soft tissues of insects. Um, Darwin was one of the first people to kind of figure out that what was going on with these plants. And um, his book was titled, you know, insectivorous plants, is what he described them as. Later it became a little bit more popular to call them carnivorous plants. It sounded a little bit more sinister, um, but it was more accurate as well because they are feeding on more than just insects. Um they will feed on rodents and birds from time to time. But um, so yeah, kind of like what a spider does, um, when you see a spider eat its prey, it's actually breaking down the soft tissue and drinking the juices that result of that, and then the little carcass of the fly or whatever bug is stuck on the spider's web is still on there. The same thing happens with carnivorous plants, the hard portion or the skeletal portion of insects remain in place. And um either through a dormant period where the plant dries up and quote unquote dies back, um clean out those bugs, or with the sticky trap plants or even venous flytraps, uh, the rain will wash away the carcasses of the bugs and allow the process to start all over again.

SPEAKER_01 18:03

Oh, fantastic. So, do any carnivorous plants have colorful blooms? And I think we touched on fragrance. Is there any that that you'd like to talk about that someone in Orange County could perhaps grow?

SPEAKER_00 18:17

Yeah, so the um flowers are of great interest. Actually, we were just uh, you know, recently at the Spring Garden show in South Coast Plaza, and I love doing those kind of public shows that involve other plant types because you'll have uh orchid people or succulent people walk up to our booth and say, Oh my gosh, what is that? Because the flowers are so beautiful. And the flowers do come in different shapes and sizes, um, and the leaves are of interest. So, you know, I mentioned the North American pitcher plant, the Seracinia.

SPEAKER_02 18:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:48

Uh those tubes, those leaves are quite large. Um, you know, on average, they're probably around 15-18 inches tall. Um, there are some varieties that can get up 40 inches plus tall, and they come in in very vibrant colors, um, reds and purples and greens and yellows and different combinations of that. And the hood shape comes in different sizes. Some are flat and round, and some are very frilly, um, like a like a cape. Uh-huh. Some of them have little um like an appendage at the end that looks like a calic. Um and you know, so the leaves look great, and then the flowers as well. They bloom early spring, and um they they're kind of like a bell-shaped flower. It's really hard to describe, but they're pretty substantial in size. Um, if I had to they're bigger than a golf ball, and so they're very noticeable, noticeable from afar. And um the petals, um, they typically have five or six petals, and they do fall off. The petal part of the flower falls off after just a couple of weeks, but the hard structure of the flower um behind it looks like a sun. You if you can imagine a round center and five petals um around that um round structure. You know, if you ask the three-year-old to draw a sun or color a sun, imagine that that's what the flowers look like, the hard structure, and that hangs on to the plant for about six to eight months out of the year here in Orange County. And so you have the beautiful leaf structure, you have the very interesting and beautiful flower structure that lasts for most of the year. And so um they're very good, and again, the flowers come in all shapes and sizes and colors as well. Um fragrance rise, there aren't that many that have a noticeable odor to humans. Um, a lot of people like the orbs flower, a lot of people ask if that is a carnivorous plant, and it's not. Um and the reason being, uh the reason is is because it that plant does not produce enzymes that that capture and digest flies. It they uses it attracts flies with the decaying scent to pollinate as a pollination. Yes. Right, right. Um, but yeah, carnivorous plants in general don't have very fragrant uh blooms or structures, at least to humans, it's not noticeable.

SPEAKER_01 21:11

Okay, so uh you're really getting me interested. So if I wanted to check out carnivorous plants, I believe Sherman Gardens in Orange County has a carnivorous plant garden. Maybe you could tell us about that. Are there other places to go to begin to check out carnivorous plants besides the Venus flytrap that you find at the register of your uh local big box home improvement store?

SPEAKER_00 21:36

Yeah, absolutely. So the Sherman Library and Gardens down in Cromad Del Mar is a fantastic garden. They're very friendly with us master gardeners, and we have docents there and things. Good. And they do have a small bog right outside one of their greenhouses in the ground that has various carnivorous plants. And the new um curator there, he started there a few years ago. He has an interest in carnivorous. Carnivorous plants, and he has told me that they're going to be, if they haven't already started, uh redoing that entire area and expanding their carnivorous plant display. So, some other gardens, public gardens that people can visit, the Huntington Library and Botanical Gardens, up there up in the Pasadena area, they have quite a large carnivorous plant collection. Um, and so people can go there and visit um various exhibits of carnivorous plants. Um, if we have any listeners that um go to Cal State Fullerton, um there is a greenhouse there, um, and they've actually had a carnivorous plant program and tissue culture lab that's been active for about 40 years. And so there are many main cultivars that came out of Cal State Fullerton um when Leo Song was there, and he was um head of the greenhouse there. Um so those are some of the public gardens, um, and we uh our club, our organization, Skippy, um, we have an annual show at the Sherman Library Gardens in June as well.

SPEAKER_01 23:05

Can I believe again if our listeners want to look, that's SCCP1P dot org.

unknown 23:15

Correct.

SPEAKER_01 23:16

Okay, good. I think I've got that there. Do you have a favorite carnivorous plant at all? Or uh genus, I guess? I guess okay, that's a tough question.

SPEAKER_00 23:25

I I do like all of them, but um for whatever reason, and I I can't really tell you why, um I have a personal affinity for um an Australian pitcher plant.

SPEAKER_02 23:40

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 23:40

It's um it's the Cephalotis follicularis. It is a single species genus. Um I can't really pinpoint or tell you what it is that I like about them other than they just look really cool, and I and I can't describe them very well other than to say the pictures are only about an inch long on average. It is a picturing plant, so it looks like um a rucksack, a backpack, if you will, with a little hood. But the lip around the opening has these inward-facing teeth, and it's super cool. And so um, yeah, my my wife actually made me a clay sculpture of one because I like it so much, and she enters it in different art competitions. Um so that's really cool. But yeah, I just if if I had to pick a favorite, and I generally don't like to, um, that Australian picture plant is definitely one of them.

SPEAKER_01 24:38

And pitcher plants, I would say, if you want to start growing your own, those grow in pots, and they're they're kind of viney, so it is a pot that you can hang in the shade in uh in a tree or something and and have an interesting thing to look at, I would say. That that might be a place to start our listeners that are beginners to carnivorous plants. So you've intrigued me. Yeah. Mm-hmm. You've intrigued me, and I want to grow one of these interesting plants. So let's start with the climate. So let's talk about the temperature range that we want to keep our carnivorous plants at, especially if we picked up a a pitcher plant.

SPEAKER_00 25:16

Yeah, so because they're found all over the world, and they come from pretty much every climate you could think of, as long as it's not under snow and ice 24-7, um, there's a huge range. And the benefit of being in California is we do have a mild climate, and so the vast majority of carnivorous plants absolutely love California. The only thing we're really missing is the water. Um, so most carnivorous plants, um, if they're terrestrial, they come from kind of bog or foresty areas, um, and then the the tropical pitcher plants, like you were mentioning that vine, come from tropical places, you know, uh you can think tropical islands, right? And so um the good news is um they're something for your climate. Um, and you know, they're they're very adaptable and they can be very easy, but they can also be very picky and persnickety. And so, just for example, um there are these short uh picture plants, they're terrestrial picture plants, so they grow on the ground. Um they're about a foot tall and they have an open picture on top, and that's the helium fora genus, and they are found in the Tapui uh mountains of South America. And for those folks wondering what the heck is a Tapui mountain, these are mountain plateaus that exist above the clouds. So they're called cloud forests, and these are found in South America, and there is a very uh limited and unique plant that grow up above the clouds. So, what does that look like in terms of climate? It's very cold because you're so high in elevation, but it's also very humid because you're in the clouds, and it's very, very bright because you're so close to the sun. So those uh conditions are a little bit harder for us to replicate because hot and humid is easy to do, but cold and humid gets very challenging. And so uh for those up for a challenge, you know, there's that. And then even the pitcher plants that we're talking about, the vining pitcher plants, um, the nepenthes, um, they can be found in various elevations on the mountain ranges of these tropical uh islands. And so the lowland species like it very hot and humid year-round. So 80 plus degrees, 100% humidity, and if it gets any cooler or drier, they start to suffer.

SPEAKER_01 27:45

Yeah, and in in a way you you can you can duplicate that here if you have your plants in the gravel.

SPEAKER_00 27:53

Yeah, that's easy to do, or even outside. Yeah. Um, but then you get to the highland species of those same picture plant genus, the Nepenthes, and they also like it cold and humid, and that becomes harder to replicate. And then there's everything in between. The 80% in between are you know what are referenced as the intermediate species. Right. And they're they're very flexible. So if you've seen these picture plants at Home Depot or Lowe's or you know, big box stores that carry them, those are generally speaking the intermediate species or they're hybrids that have been intentionally bred to be a little bit more tolerant of various lighting and humidity conditions. And so they're what we would call easier plants or beginner-friendly plants that look like all of the other plants.

SPEAKER_01 28:39

So what you're telling us is w if you get into this hobby, you need to do your homework, you need to do some online research, check out some books, and see what you're dealing with so that you can duplicate that climate. And I would recommend that you start with a climate that you can most easily duplicate here in Southern California. And I think that would be a good place to go.

SPEAKER_00 29:03

And and also, you know, seek out your local club, right? So that's the reason I belong to so many uh clubs is because I believe uh learning from other people that are doing it near you is the fastest and best way to learn. Because if you go online and it's a website written by somebody that's in Montana, that's not gonna do you a whole lot of good. Or even San Francisco, as close as the Bay Area is, our climates are very different.

SPEAKER_01 29:30

You're right. And so check out the clubs.

SPEAKER_00 29:36

Yeah, that's my preference.

SPEAKER_01 29:38

Alright, and that's that's a good thing. And I'm I'm like I said, I think you're gonna get some motivated listeners. And as we get into planting these ourselves, let's let's talk about the soil. So if you're growing these, what kind of soil do you want?

SPEAKER_00 29:53

So it's gonna be plant-specific, um, but we can't say that most of the terrestrial species, so what's growing on the ground, quote unquote, are usually growing on uh peat. Yeah, so it's basically decomposed phagna moss. Um there most of these plants are growing in bog areas or other low nutrient areas, and peat moss is a great um medium that will replicate many of those conditions. Um for the epiphytic type or the vining type, um, long fibrous phagnum moss is great. Um, and then you can also introduce you know what's commonly called as orchid bark to help break up the media. So, yeah, if you've got something that's epiphytic or vining, um the long fibrous phagnum is the way to go. For everything else, some sort of peat mixture. Um I will mention though that um, like earlier we mentioned that these come from low nutrient areas. Um when you buy like a seedless, uh, I mean a soilless mix or a seed starter mix of some sort, the bag will say peat moss, but it's got other additives in there, and that will actually burn the roots of these carnivorous plants. They need to be in a low-nutrient environment. And so um that's just something to be careful, because people will rush out to their favorite uh garden center and the bag will say peat moss, you know, or even it'll say 100% organic.

SPEAKER_01 31:22

Yeah, or forest products because they're gonna turn into nitrogen.

SPEAKER_00 31:27

Right, right. And those are not good. So if you are making your own soil and not purchasing that's already been pre-mixed specifically for carnivorous plants, it needs to be 100% pure organic peat moss and nothing else in it. And they do sell that.

SPEAKER_01 31:41

Yeah, I'm sure you can you can find that at your garden center or even online. So potter in the ground, does it matter?

SPEAKER_00 31:49

Uh it matters here, um, because our in the ground, A, um the soils that we have in the ground are gonna have other minerals and nutrients and things that'll hurt the plants.

SPEAKER_01 32:00

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 32:01

And um B, it's the water. So we haven't uh gone into the water discussion yet, but that is actually the one kind of key point and tricky point with carnivorous plants, is they do need pure water. And so our tap water is no good. So if you've got them in the ground and it's getting sprinkler water, it will slowly kill the plant.

SPEAKER_01 32:22

Okay, so let's since you brought that up, let's let's jump ahead to water. So if you put you you want it in a pot, you you could sink the pot, I guess, in the soil, but you can't be touched by sprinklers or hose water because of the chloramines and the other mineral content in the water. So tell us about watering uh your carnivorous plants. How do you go about doing that? What are the watering needs?

SPEAKER_00 32:48

So um the three most common sources of good water is going to be distilled water, which you can purchase. I do not recommend trying to make distilled water. That's uh not a good process. Um, reverse osmosis water will work as long as it you've got good filters in it. Um so typically the minimum is like a three-stage uh filter that a lot of people will have on their sinks. Um, I have seven-stage reverse osmosis water for my aquarium. Okay, so that's what I use. And then the third source of water is rain, but we don't get very much of that in California outside of our uh unusual El Nino years like we've had recently. Yeah, maybe.

SPEAKER_01 33:26

So those are the common. So you so with rainwater, then you could use a rain barrel and keep that water year-round for your carnivorous plants.

SPEAKER_00 33:37

You just have to be careful on how you and where you collect it, because if your rain uh catch system includes your roof gutters and stuff, and you've got uh three years worth of dust on your roof and dead plant material, that runoff um will affect the water quality. So those are just some things to think about.

SPEAKER_01 33:57

Yeah, because if you're gonna get that nitrogen in that water again, which you don't want. Okay, so the rain water has to be pure, so you have to collect it in the matter that probably wouldn't be a rain barrel system from your roof. So it may be something you set up with um, you know, maybe I'm thinking a kitty pool that you know you get rather inexpensively and collect the water in that manner and then store it.

SPEAKER_00 34:22

Yeah, so I grow my carnivorous plants outdoors in trays. So if for the folks familiar, there are things called 1020 trays, it's 10 centimeter by 20 cm. So it's it's a standard tray that's used in the horticulture industry. And um I have the ones with apples, and they're about an inch and a half to two inches tall. And so I keep my pots sitting in those trays at all times outside exposed to the clouds and the rain. So every time it rains, it just kind of fills up the tray. Um, so one of the things that I tell people is that carnivorous plants are some of the easiest plants you can keep, period. Um, and that's a bold statement because I think they're easier than succulents or houseplants or any other plant, because you cannot overwater and you cannot underwater these plants by having them sitting in a tray of water. These are bog plants, they like their feet wet. So what you do is you have the pot and you have it in a little saucer of water, or in my case, trays of water at all times.

SPEAKER_01 35:30

Do you put gravel in those trays too?

SPEAKER_00 35:32

No, no, they're just just full of water. Yeah, so the pots are just sitting in about half an inch to an inch of water at all times. And, you know, every week if it's not raining, um, every week or so I just add a little bit of water into the tray, and as long as I see water in the tray, I know that the substrate, the media, will wick up the water and water the plants. So I never have to worry about is it too wet, is it too dry? Um, because these are plants that like to have wet feet.

SPEAKER_01 35:59

So you're watering it, your method of water is in the tray from underneath because the correct bottom watering. It will wick up, you know, uh through the bottom of the uh pot hole in the plant in the pot and go up into the plant, and then it's giving a me uh, I would say an even moisture level for the plants at all times, which I would say is pretty important.

SPEAKER_00 36:23

Right, right. And what I do is depending on, so some of them do like it a little bit drier than others, and some plants have longer or shorter roots, so I adjust my pot height to be appropriate to the plant type that I'm keeping, but all of them are in a tray of some sort. And we may have listeners that are what about the mosquitoes or vector control might be listening and uh pounding their head into the wall. Um I use mosquito bits, so I go out there about once a month and I just sprinkle mosquito bits into the trays, and that's my mosquito control, and it's very effective. It's um you know, it's uh safe, it's a biological control, um, and it only impacts the mosquitoes, and so all the other wildlife is safe, it's per perfectly organic and very effective.

SPEAKER_01 37:09

Okay, that sounds good. And are you using clay pots, plastic pots? What what kind of pots are you uh do you prefer?

SPEAKER_00 37:17

So most of the pots are plastic for various reasons. A, that's most economical, um, and B, if you use terracotta pots, they will uh leach stuff through the clay. Um if you use a high-fired clay pot or ceramic pot that's been either fired at cone five or six or cone ten, they're usually fully vitrified enough to not have to worry about these out of the clay.

SPEAKER_02 37:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:43

Um but yeah, the terracotta pots that most people associate with clay, you know, uh clay pots, um, those will leach minerals again, which can be harmful to the plants.

SPEAKER_01 37:54

Okay. So obviously we're not going to fertilize these plants. I think you mentioned that.

SPEAKER_00 38:00

Which generally speaking, we recommend not doing it for the layperson. Um, we'll tell you that the commercial growers do fertilize with the very diluted light fertilizer because they're not catching enough bugs in a greenhouse or a mass production environment. And for the commercial growers that need to have maximum yield and you know, maximum speed.

SPEAKER_01 38:22

And make it look good. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:24

Yeah, they do have a very specific fertilizing regimen that's most of the time out of the league of hobbyists. So our rule of thumb is just grow the plants outside, let them catch their own bugs, and they'll be perfectly happy. Don't fertilize.

SPEAKER_01 38:38

Yeah, and it's probably really cool when they catch a bug, I would imagine.

SPEAKER_00 38:41

It absolutely is.

SPEAKER_01 38:42

Yeah, that would be exciting. And these are, for the most part, the plants you're growing are shade-loving, so they're not going to be in direct sun, is that correct? Where you place them in you?

SPEAKER_00 38:55

No, so so most of these plants like very, very bright light, okay with direct sun. So the North American pitcher plants, the Saracenias, all want to be outside full sun. If they can get sun for direct sunlight for 14 hours a day, they will grow like a weed. Um, and same thing with the Venus flytraps. Um, the other part, aside from the water being the number one issue, the number two issue that people fail with Venus flytraps is they think that it's an indoor plant or a tropical plant or a terrarium plant. The truth is most Venus flytraps want to be outside in the sun.

SPEAKER_01 39:31

Um that's why you that's why you kill them, is you you use tap water to water them and you keep them in too shady of an environment.

SPEAKER_00 39:39

Right. So again, you know, a quick Google search or something to look at the care of these plants for for literally five minutes will save people many months of or even years of heartache and headache. Um and the other thing, and I'll just mention this really quick, is um a lot of these plants do go dormant, and that includes the Venus flag trap. So around you know, Thanksgiving, Christmas time, so once winter hits, uh the Venus flag traps, the leaves turn black and they shrivel up and they fall away, and it looks like the plant is dying.

SPEAKER_01 40:13

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 40:13

And we get so many people that approach us and say, I just can't keep these things alive. And when we ask what happened, it's like, oh, it just dies in the winter. It's actually just going dormant, and if you would have waited until February, it would have popped right back. Um, so those are some of the things, you know, very basic information that um people should look up when they're getting into these sort of things.

SPEAKER_01 40:34

Yeah, that's it. That's a really good tip for carnivorous plant uh care. Are there any other tips that you can share?

SPEAKER_00 40:40

Um The water is the biggest thing, just pure water. You know, we get people that say, well, what about my Brita filter, or what about the water out of my refrigerator door? You know, and and they they ask, um, and the general rule of thumb I I say is no, those don't remove enough of the minerals because it's not a pressurized reverse osmosis system. And so those trickle filters or single stage filters, generally speaking, don't do a good enough job of removing the minerals. Yeah. Um and I've I've seen some people get creative and they'll try to catch the condensate dripping out of their AC unit, you know, and doing but you know, I just tell people just it, you know, buying reverse osmosis water is not that expensive. You can go to the water machines that are outside grocery stores. Most of those, I can't speak for all of them, but most of those are maintained well enough where the total dissolved solids are low enough for our use. Um, the other thing you can do is if you've got a fish uh an aquarium store nearby, most aquarium stores sell reverse osmosis water because um wreek keepers, salt water aquarium keepers that mix their own salt will buy reverse osmosis water at the fish store. So that's another great um alternative. And those filters are uh kept um you know they're definitely very careful about changing the filters and keeping the water quality pure. Yeah, they'd have to be right.

SPEAKER_01 42:03

Yeah, I could and you know, distilled water is actually, I've noticed it's cheaper than uh your standard bottled water that you buy.

SPEAKER_00 42:12

Yeah, you can get a whole gallon for about a buck. It might be up to a buck and a quarter.

SPEAKER_01 42:16

Yeah, no, it's it's not very expensive.

SPEAKER_00 42:19

It's not. And if you've got one or two plants, a gallon of water is gonna last you months and months. So it's not a big deal, but you know, people think or they want to kind of lean towards this DIY or you know, figure out ways to cheat the system. And my my advice is always, you know, don't even bother, don't risk your plant, just go get the right water.

SPEAKER_01 42:40

So propagation. Um tell us a little bit about propagating carnivorous plants. And I know that's that's a big so you probably there's different species, obviously, are going to do it in different ways, but are there techniques and things that you do, and is something the amateur could do?

SPEAKER_00 42:57

Yeah, so um I'll kind of talk about a couple of the most common ones. So I bring up Sericenia again, which are the North American pitcher plants, those grow on a rhizome. So there is a uh structure right at the soil line where the pitchers are coming out of, um, and that grows. And um the bigger the rhizome, the more pitcher and flowers you'll have out of the whole plant. And if the plant is happy, it will triple in size every year. So it's exponential growth, not double in size, but triple in size every year. So these plants can get very big. And if you want a big plant uh every winter, when it goes dormant, you can up pot it, put it into a larger pot, and have a bigger plant. Um, or if you would like to propagate it vegetatively, you can break up that rhizome. Right. And you can turn one big plant into two or three little plants.

SPEAKER_01 43:51

Yeah, and share it with a friend too, you know.

SPEAKER_00 43:53

Exactly. Share it with the friend. You know, that's when we go to events with my club, that's what all the plants we take are. They're probably Propagated plants from our members, and they're all grown locally. So there are plants that will do that. I'll share a little secret here about the Venus flytrap. So the Venus flytrap can be uh divided in a similar fashion at the rhizome level, but the other kind of cool way for the more uh knowing hobbyist is um the Venus flytraps will put out flowers in the spring, and that flower stalk has adventitious tissue that can grow roots and leaves. Oh, kind of like a stem cell. Okay, yeah, that's interesting. If you cut the flower stalk and stick that flower stalk into sphagnum moss, it'll grow a clone of itself right out of the bottom of that flower stalk where it hits the soil. Oh, that's and so you can yeah, and you can very quickly uh reproduce um flytraps that way. And so that's kind of a little secret that's out of the bag now.

SPEAKER_01 45:00

Yeah. And I mean I imagine the I imagine the uh commercial industry does it in that manner.

SPEAKER_00 45:07

Some of them do it in that manner. Tissue culture has become a big thing. Okay. Where just like in the orchids, some of the very high-end plants that are mass-produced commercially, or especially the patented plants, yeah, those are getting reproduced via tissue culture now that the technology has become affordable and and um there are many labs out there doing these services. Um, I'll mention the nepenthes, the other pitcher plant, uh the vining type. Um those uh the vines at the base of every leaf has nodes where if you cut them and put it into sphagnamos, it will vegetatively reproduce at those nodes as well. It'll produce new roots, kind of like uh many orchids will do. Um similarly, it'll do the same thing. So you can do cuttings from the nepenthes and reproduce them that way.

SPEAKER_01 45:57

So even though carnivorous plants consume and digest insects, are there pests that I need to look out for?

SPEAKER_00 46:04

Uh there are, unfortunately. So um mealy bugs, the you know, the vanos. Yeah, those little critters. Um mealybugs can um be found on many carnivorous plants. The saracenia in particular are susceptible to mealy bugs. Um, there are some grubs and worms that are specific uh predators of various carnivorous plants because where they're found um natively, those those insects exist. We don't have those in California, so they're less of a problem, but the mealybugs are definitely a pest. Yes, they are. Ants can be a pest. Um aphids can be a pest. So the you know, you're a lot of those normal, quote unquote normal pests that we deal with also um find their way to carnivorous plants. Um and then the other one that I'm particularly annoyed of are uh rats. So mice and rats will actually um they like to lick the sweet, sticky dew and um the butterworts of the pinguiculas, they'll actually go and eat the leaves. Um I don't know why. I I don't know if it's like chewing gum to them or something, but um, if I try to grow my pinguiculas outside, they they some kind of rodent will come in and eat them up every summer and take care of it.

SPEAKER_01 47:20

Yeah. So if you get aphids or mealybugs, uh the UCANR IPM website talks about various ways to control these insects. Ants, I would imagine, if you use like a product like Tanglefoot around your container, that would keep the ants out of the area. So I would imagine ants like to burrow into that peat moss to uh create a habitat and a den.

SPEAKER_00 47:54

Yeah, and the ants actually like so some of the plants, because of that sticky dew that they produce that is sweet, they actually go and they're going for the the quote unquote nectar that the plant is producing as well. Um because most of the time we we associate ants with aphids, you know, and the secretions from the aphids.

SPEAKER_01 48:11

Yeah, the honeydew, right.

SPEAKER_00 48:12

They can skip that with some of these carnivorous plants. So they just they're you know, but um yeah, there there are uh methods. Um obviously just manual removal is very helpful. Um but um oftentimes if you have a really heavy infestation, um, you do have to rely on systemics because there's just no other way, right? So um one of the most devastating pests to get that can wipe out an entire collection. Like I lost about a third of my collection one year in a particular part of my yard because I got thrips. And the thrips are just absolutely terrible, and you've gotta you've gotta bring out the big guns for the thrip.

SPEAKER_01 48:51

Yeah, you do, yeah, unfortunately. And I guess fortunately, they're not as common as aphids and mealy bugs, but yeah, I Right. And of course, when you get a product that controls trips, you want to follow the directions exactly as it says on the package, so that you know that you're you're doing what you need to do and you're not uh doing further damage to the environment. So getting started, where would a first-time carnivorous plant grower begin? Specific species, the Venus flytrap, what would you say to start with? I think you've kind of mentioned this, but maybe a little bit more detail.

SPEAKER_00 49:30

Yeah, so the the drosseras, um the sticky trap plants that um have long, like tentacle-shaped leaves, um, those are very tolerant of very many lighting conditions and humidity. They're not picky plants at all. Um, and so we actually at our show at the Sherman we give away a free drosser plant to kids. We have a little kids' activity area where they can come and get a free plant because that's how easy they are, and that's kind of that uh gateway plant, if you will. So those are very easy, and they come in different um shapes and sizes as well, the leaf structure, but also the blooms. The inflorescences are usually very vibrant, um, purples and uh lavenders and pinks and sort of stuff. So the the inflorescence is is cool, the plant is cool, it's easy to take care of. Um, that's what we steer most of the beginners toward. Um for the more you know adult uh or mature um person that wants to try these plants out. The saracenias are are fairly easy, they like our climate, they like our sun, they like our temperature, they like our seasons. Um, again, the only thing we're missing is the water. So as long as you give them the right water with a little reservoir on the bottom, they absolutely thrive here. And and like I said earlier, they'll triple in size every year. So they're super fun, super rewarding.

SPEAKER_01 50:50

Alright, so that that gives a beginner, and you you mentioned that you your club had an expo or sale at Sherman Gardens. Tell us a little bit about that. What time of year is that held?

SPEAKER_00 51:02

So the Spring Garden Show, the Southern California Spring Garden Show, um, is May of every year.

SPEAKER_01 51:08

And that's at South Coast Plaza.

SPEAKER_00 51:10

The South Coast Plaza show at the end of April. Right. So we've been going there for a few years as a vendor. We had six tables there this year in the last couple of years. And so, again, our members bring out some of their propagations and plants to share it with the public. And we also have a bunch of volunteers that come out that don't sell anything, they're just there to share information and talk about the plants. And um, normally we'll have a couple of specimen-sized plants, the big wow factor that brings people in. And it's so fun because I'll be sitting at the table and somebody from 20 feet away, their jaw will drop and they'll start pointing.

unknown 51:45

And what is that?

SPEAKER_02 51:46

And and and and these are adults, not even the kids.

SPEAKER_00 51:49

They come running over, and what the heck is that? You know, and so it's a great opportunity to engage with the public and non-plant people because it's at the South Coast Plaza Mall. So the vast majority of the foot traffic there are just mall guests, they're not plant people, and so it's really fun and exciting to see new people um see something that they've not seen before, and that's what we really enjoy.

SPEAKER_01 52:12

Yeah, and our listeners so that'll be something for our listeners to do, is just be sure they drop by uh at the end of every April, and it's a very fun thing to do, and it's over at the Crystal Court, which is where all of the um home stores tend to be clustered at the mall. So it's a good place. And are you at Sherman Gardens at all?

SPEAKER_00 52:32

Yeah, we um so the Sherman Garden posts our annual show um and sale for our society. So it's Father's Day weekend. Um what the Garden told us was uh, because the garden's open for booking for like weddings and birthday parties and said nobody ever books anything Father's Day. So if you want to make Father's Day the weekend of your show, uh we can commit to giving that to you every year. We say, okay, that sounds fine. Uh a lot of dads are into carnivorous plants anyway. So yeah, um, you know, the garden charges admission, but our show is free. So if you come into the garden or if you're a member, um come check it out. Um we'll we have a show area, a judged show area where um our members will bring their specimen plants, their their big ones out, um, and we'll have an entire room dedicated to that. We have judges that travel internationally to come and evaluate and award ribbons uh for those plants, and then the rest of the garden is kind of a sales area, and we have um our members selling different plants and supplies and things all related to carnivorous plants uh over Father's Day weekend down at the end.

SPEAKER_01 53:41

So I if I visited I could see some of the award-winning plants, and that would really help me see where my hobby could go if I uh if I wanted to really get interested in it. So that's coming up. That's Father's Day weekend is coming up in June. So that's gonna so uh so that's good. Any additional tips or words of wisdom before we uh end the show today?

SPEAKER_00 54:05

Um like I mentioned earlier, joining your local club, you know, even if it's not for carnivorous plants, if you have an interest of any sort, I know that the many people nowadays will flock to social media or YouTube or just Googling things, but I really want to encourage people to look for a local group that is doing what you are interested in, just to go check it out because um those are the people that know what they're doing, they've been doing it, and you can go and ask questions and engage with them. And I promise, all of these groups, regardless of what hobby you're in, whether it's growing plants or climbing rocks or you know, hiking and camping or fishing, you know, all of these clubs love seeing new people come. So I would highly encourage if you have any kind of interest in anything, even if it's model trains or building robots, and and I bring all these up because those are things that I'm interested in.

SPEAKER_02 54:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 54:57

Um and those are all clubs I belong to. But uh go check that out. I I really encourage people to try to go beyond just uh your phone or the internet, you know, and go find a local group that's doing what you want to do, and that's always the best resource.

SPEAKER_01 55:10

Fantastic. And so again, we'll give the website for the uh Southern California Carnivorous Plant uh uh organization, and that's S, two Cs, a P, a C, an E, and dot org. S C C P C E dot org. This is in the garden, and we've been talking about carnivorous plants with our guest, John Kim. Thank you, John, for joining us today and sharing your knowledge and getting people excited about growing carnivorous plants and doing something new.