Plumerias

 Plumerias (aka Fragipani)!  Maybe the most coveted of the tropical flowers grown and blooming now in Southern California.  These flowers are more likely identified as Hawaiian as they are a favorite flower for leis, but they are actually endemic to Mexico and Central America.  They thrive in Southern California’s Mediterranean climate with a little water.  Even inland regions of Southern California are HOT spots for plumeria culture. This week on In the Garden with UC Master Gardeners, Master Gardener and host Bill Brooks talks with fellow Master Gardener Pennie Louwers and past President of the South Coast Plumeria Society Jaki Kamphuis about how to grow plumerias. Learn all you need to know about the needs of the plants (water, temperature, soil, feeding, and propagation) to get you off and growing. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

This is In the Garden with your host Bill Brooks, University of California Master Gardener. Whether or not you know them as plumeria, Frangipani, Temple Tree, or Malaya in the Hawaiian language, we'll be talking about these amazing plants in today's show. We're fortunate to have Master Gardener and Plumeria expert Penny Lars, along with Jackie Campus, who is president of the South Coast Plumeria Society. Welcome, Penny. Welcome, Jackie. Please tell us a bit about yourselves and your interest in plumerias.

SPEAKER_01 0:34

I'll go first. My interest in gardening started back in 2005 when I decided to enroll in Settleback College Horticultural Classes. I received my Occupational Skilled Award in General Landscape Design in 2007 and in general horticulture in 2008. I completed my Master Gardener training and became a Master Gardener in 2012. I knew nothing about growing plumerias, so I attended a lecture at Rogers Gardens given by a member of South Coast Plumeria Society. I became a member of the Society in 2011. I served on the board in various positions and on various committees, and I am now a lifetime member.

SPEAKER_00 1:22

Thank you, Penny. Jackie, what about yourself?

SPEAKER_02 1:24

I've been growing plumeria since about 2010 when I was a gifted plant by my mother-in-law. I became hooked rather quickly and started buying more and more plants. What I love about plumeria is the flowers can be so unique. There's so many different colors, so many scents. Even the shape of the petals and leaves can be different. And I wanted to learn more about how to care for my plants. So I joined a Plumeria Society and attended monthly meetings. I learned a lot from going to those meetings and I made a lot of friends, including Penny. And eventually I became the VP of membership, and now I serve as the president of the South Coast Plumeria Society. And I'm up to, I did have more, but right now I have about a hundred different varieties of plumeria.

SPEAKER_00 2:16

Thank you both. The plumeria is often associated with Hawaii as many of us first see the plant growing on the islands, or we receive a plumeria lay while we're there, or even we buy the little plumeria cutting at the airport gift shop when visiting Hawaii. But what I've found is plumeria aren't from Hawaii. Can you tell us a little bit about the plant's natural history?

SPEAKER_01 2:40

They are native of Mexico, Central America, and Venezuela. They were first found in the southern forest regions of Mexico in the mid-19th century. The very first plant was brought over to Hawaii, the Hawaiian Islands, in 1860 by Wilhelm Hildebrand, a German physician who became a botanist later in life.

SPEAKER_00 3:05

Wow, that's amazing. These plants are here and not in Hawaii. So plumeria is actually the genus name of the plant, and frangipani is the common name, although we don't hear that in Southern California that much. Do you know about how this plant got its common and its scientific names?

SPEAKER_01 3:25

Well, I did a little research on it, and I found that Carl Lenahi was the first naturalist to implement the biomal non a system that classified the plants in the Latin genus and species. He first described plumeria in 1753. He named the genus Plumeria from Carl Plumier, the botanist of King Louis XIV in France. I'm not sure I'm saying this right, but Plumier traveled to another with another botanist who collected plant species while Plumier made drawings. Plumier drew all types of organisms, and his drawings of plants number over 4,000 people. He became one of the most important botanical explorers of his time. The story originated in the late 19th century when London was the largest city in the world. The city had a great disparity between the rich and poor, both economically and socially. Owners of a luxury perfumery in 1855 wanted to propel perfume into new middle class markets. They created a romantic fictional character, a hero, who they named Frangipani. Their story took Franjapani to the New World as a botanist on one of Columbus's voyages. Desperate to find land, he became a hero when he discovered the shoreline through his extraordinary sense of smell. None of this is true. The perfumery, in fact, formulated a synthetic scent that was named Frangippani in 1880, using the story to drive the prophets. The common name, its first origin, was in Italy, a family bearing the name Frangippani traced back to the an ancestor whose job was to refill the wafers or holy bread in church. Frangipani literally means broken bread.

SPEAKER_00 5:53

That's such an interesting story. Thank you very much for that very insightful history. I've also heard that plumeria has special meaning in both Hinduism and the Balinese culture. Can you please tell us about the role that the Plumeria plays in Hinduism as well as in Bali?

SPEAKER_01 6:18

Jackie, do you want to take that one a sense you've been to Bali?

SPEAKER_02 6:23

Sure. I was uh fortunate to travel to Bali a couple of years ago, right before the pandemic. And um uh one of the things that stands out about Bali is the number of temples. Um uh it's common for each home to have its own small temple, which might be the size of a birdhouse, but uh it's still uh where they do our their offerings, and each town also has its own temple, and then there's several large community temples as well. So um it's hard to go down um any street in Bali without seeing uh some sort of a temple. The uh Balinese um in the mornings will uh prepare the sidewalks and the steps and the statues and temples for the offerings that they do every day that are meant to appease and please the various gods and demons of Balinese Hinduism. And these little tributes are perched all over the city. Um sometimes they can be as simple as a small and fragrant uh plumeria adorning every step leading to a household compound. Um, often they offer fruit and burn incense. Uh, it's it's just very um fascinating.

SPEAKER_00 7:43

Plumeria, I know we're attracted to them here in Southern California because of their fragrance as well as their colors. In fact, Jackie, I think you said that that's what got you interested in the plant to begin with. So, could maybe both of you tell us a little bit about the varieties of color as well as the fragrances that we can find in plumeria flowers?

SPEAKER_02 8:04

Uh yeah, I can go first if that's okay.

SPEAKER_00 8:07

That'd be great.

SPEAKER_02 8:08

All right, so um, you know, there are hundreds of varieties of plumeria. I I know most people just think of them in terms of colors. Um, and the most common colors are probably yellow, white, pink, um, but there are also red, orange, and purple plumeria as well. Uh, flowers with a combination of colors are called rainbows, and they're also fairly common. However, I do want to let everybody know that there is no such thing as blue plumeria. And I say this because there are some sellers on certain sites who use Photoshop pictures, and um, you know, they look very beautiful, but they're not real, so uh so don't fall for that. Um, plumeria also have many different fragrances, including scents of um peach, rose, jasmine, citrus, butterscotch, just so many. Some are sweet, some are somewhat spicy. Uh, one of my favorites smells like cloves. I even have one that smells like bubblegum. Uh, celadine's a favorite of a lot of growers. It has a strong, somewhat citrusy smell uh that reminds a lot of people of uh their trips to Hawaii.

SPEAKER_00 9:28

Yeah, that that plumeria smell we all know about is for sure. Is there a correlation between the color of the flower and the fragrance that you're going to find?

SPEAKER_02 9:39

Do you want to take that one, Penny, or do you want me to talk about that? Uh you go ahead. Okay. You know, for me, I think the the plumerium with the strongest fragrances tend to be the whites and yellows. Uh, although Penny was telling me the other day about a white that a friend of hers has that has no fragrance whatsoever. Which is very unusual. Yes. But it's less common for reds and some of the oranges, uh, they're not as fragrant um as the other colors. So there is maybe a slight correlation between that. Um, but I'm always drawn to the scent. So wherever my nose takes me, um, that's the color it's going to be in my yard.

SPEAKER_00 10:27

That's a good way to go. So when you're I'm trusting when you're buying plumeria from a grower or a nursery, you get both the fragrance and the flower, for example, the flower color?

SPEAKER_02 10:42

Yeah, most of the varieties should have a tag on them if you're purchasing them from a store or grower uh indicating what the color is, possibly the variety name, um, and should give a brief description of maybe growth habit, because there are some plumerias that are tall like trees, and then there are some miniature dwarf varieties as well. Um, and they should give you an indication if there's a fragrance as well.

SPEAKER_00 11:14

So I imagine plumerias in nature have this fragrance for pollinators. Do you know what pollinates a plumeria by chance?

SPEAKER_02 11:23

Usually insects. So I know sphinx moths are one of the biggest.

SPEAKER_01 11:30

Yeah. Go ahead. I believe that's the only one I know of for sure.

SPEAKER_00 11:34

And I'm sure that in their native habitat, there's a lot of different insects that do the pollination.

SPEAKER_02 11:41

Yeah, there's um, I think a lot of the ones that we think of as pollinators probably don't pollinate um plumeria, such as bees, because they can't get down far enough into the throat of the flower to actually do anything. Uh, but uh any insects with long tongues or small enough insects that can climb down into the throat of the plumeria, those would all be pollinators.

SPEAKER_00 12:08

I've also heard that plumeria are actually taxonomically grouped with succulents, which means they grow very well in Southern California.

SPEAKER_01 12:17

Um I couldn't find any actual data that that proved that. Plumeria um they're a member of the dog bane family. They're related to oleander and periwinkle. But I did read a couple articles where it called the cuttings or the branches succulent, and that might be because they have the ability to um to stay healthy once they're cut over winter before they're planted. But I don't have any scientific facts showing that they're actually in the succulent group.

SPEAKER_00 12:53

Can each of you tell us your favorite color? And Jackie, you already kind of talked about the your favorite fragrance, but just talk about your favorite colors and your favorite fragrances that you each of you like.

SPEAKER_01 13:05

Well, it's difficult. There are so many choices. And I walk around my yard and talk to people about my plants, and I go to each one and I say, This is my favorite. I have about 30 different varieties planted in the ground, and about that many in pots. And I've tried not to duplicate. Um, each one is unique in color and fragrance. Um, most of mine are in the pink category. Um, I have one in particular that I really like that's called the Cunnahoi Um Sunburst. It's a really hot pink with yellow to it. It's probably one of my favorites.

SPEAKER_00 13:47

Thank you, Penny. And Jackie, what about yourself? Favorite color?

SPEAKER_02 13:51

Well, you know, similar to what Penny said, I, you know, often we hear people say, well, my favorite plumeria is whichever one I'm looking or s or smelling at the moment. Um, and so as I mentioned earlier, I kind of follow my nose. So my my favorites for fragrance, um, there's one called Aztec Gold that smells like uh fresh cut peaches. Uh there's one called Veracruz Rose that smells like roses. Um, a variety I have called sweetness smells like uh bubblegum. And then one of my favorites for a scent is Mary Helen Eggenberger, which is named after a sort of famous plumerian uh from Texas. Um it has a very strong sweet floral scent, but you don't have to have a named variety to find a nice smelling plumeria. I have um plenty of uh what we call, we call them noids, which stands for no ID. Um, and so I have plenty of those in my yard that that smell uh wonderful too.

SPEAKER_01 14:56

Another good one is Saint Germain. Jackie gave me one, I planted it in my yard, and I can't wait for it to bloom because it's got a really nice, strong, wonderful scent.

SPEAKER_02 15:08

Yeah, somewhat like jasmine honey stuck.

SPEAKER_00 15:11

Yeah, that's a typical plumeria smell that we're all so used to. And speaking of that, it's my understanding that plumeria essence or their oils are actually used in perfumes.

SPEAKER_01 15:22

I think it's actually a synthetic version of the smell.

SPEAKER_00 15:28

That's manufactured for the perfume. So you know of no plumerias that are grown for the perfume industry, then. No. So we've talked about the plant, we know about its nomenclature, and we know the colors and fragrances, and I know a lot of us are very anxious to grow these. So let's talk about growing these beautiful flowers, starting with the climate. So, what temperatures do plumeria like? Jackie, you want to take that one?

SPEAKER_02 15:55

Yeah, so let's start out by um saying that plumerias do like lots of sun, uh, at least uh six hours a day worth of direct sunshine. Uh, however, they can get sunburn damage on the branches on very hot days. So uh so they might appreciate a little protection. Um, if you have them in pots, you can move them into a slightly shadier area, for example. One thing to keep in mind is that plumeria do go dormant in the winter time. They typically will start dropping their leaves in the fall. And depending on where you live, uh, plumeria might need protection from the cold. So frost can cause damage, especially to the tips of the branches. And so some people actually will pull their plumerias into the garage, or some people even fill their bathroom with their with their plants so that they can protect them. Uh, but uh it also depends a lot on where you live. So I'll give you an example of um I recently moved and I I did live in Huntington Beach, and when I lived there, my plants um just stayed outside all year round. There was no need for any kind of protection for them because it barely, very rarely got below, you know, maybe it dipped down to the low 40s a few times, but not much below that. And I recently moved to Menafe, uh, California, which is down near Temecula, and I can tell you it's a lot hotter and a lot colder here. So I do have to take more precaution to protect my plants from the elements. But um if you're a new grower, it's it's a good idea to kind of experiment with moving your plants around in your yard to see where they like it best, and to remember that what works for somebody else might not work best for you. So it's good to ask people who live in areas that are similar to yours for advice.

SPEAKER_00 17:59

Boy, isn't that the truth? Because all of us have microclimates in our backyard. So we want to look for a sunny spot primarily, and we want to avoid, I would say, temperatures much below 40 is when plumeria might start getting freeze tip burn. Is that what you would assume?

SPEAKER_01 18:17

Yes, I agree. And there are some things you can do, home remedies to help with the sunburn. You can uh wrap the branch that's most exposed to the sun with a paper towel tube or a toilet paper tube. Some people wrap it in foil, you know, during the really hot part of the summer where it's going to be sunburnt. A lot of the branches will be protected by leaves, but I I do have some that have gotten um pretty bad sunburn. It doesn't necessarily kill the plant, it just doesn't make it look as pretty.

SPEAKER_00 18:52

Yeah, so I guess you could take a toilet paper tube or paper towel tube and slit it vertically so you could just slip it over the branches for protection. That's a great idea.

SPEAKER_01 19:02

Yeah, sometimes I'll wrap a little tape around it because if it gets wet, they'll they'll fall off. But um, and that's just a temporary fix during the really hot part of the of the summer.

SPEAKER_00 19:13

So, soil, once you have found your plumerial right climate zone in your yard, soil is a foundation. So please tell us a little bit about plumerias preferred soil type and how you prepare that and all about getting the soil ready, particularly if we want to plant one of these in the ground. But I'm going to ask you about pots too. So let's take ground planting first.

SPEAKER_01 19:38

Well, planting uh directly in the ground is a bit less challenging. Although plumerias will tolerate many apparently adverse conditions, they will survive in heavy soils that tend to become waterlogged. So, in that case, you would add soil amendments because you want it to be well draining and kind of a viable uh sandy loam.

SPEAKER_00 20:07

So, a sandy loam. So, I want to avoid if I've got the clay, which a lot of us in Southern California do here in Orange County, I'm going to have to amend my clay so that the soil drains because the roots, it sounds like the roots like to dry out.

SPEAKER_01 20:25

Yeah, if you do not like to set in water at all, that's a good way to um have root rot and lose a plant.

SPEAKER_00 20:33

So even in my yard, I want to pick a perhaps higher part of my yard where the water is going to run off, especially if I've got that heavy soil. And I think that that might be a good remedy. Is that what you would assume as well?

SPEAKER_01 20:48

Yes, and what I uh I can only go with my experience in my yard, what I tend to do is not have any sprinklers directly spraying around onto my plants. I have my sprinklers set away from my plants, and it just tends to give them enough water to survive. So you want to be careful about your irrigation placement.

SPEAKER_00 21:15

That's another good tip as well. I hadn't thought about that. So potter in the ground, do you either of you have a preference to whether you like to keep your plumerias potted or do you like to plant them in the ground?

SPEAKER_02 21:30

Uh, I think a lot of people who um grow plumeria have both. You know, if you have the space and you don't have to worry about freezing temperatures, then you know, put them in the ground. They love being in the ground. Uh, you just have to remember that they're gonna grow into big trees typically. I know in my situation I had maybe about eight that were in the ground because I had a relatively small lot, so that was as many as I could fit, you know, but I Did have a lot more in pots, and I would just put them around the yard in different places so that I could enjoy them during the year. If you are going to have them in pots, you know, a lot of times we start them out in smaller, like one-gallon pots when they're just rooting. But you know, after they've been be gotten established in that pot, I would recommend that you put them in at least a five-gallon pot once they're established. The benefit of having them in pots is obviously you can move them around the yard. Um, I used to have to move around the ones that were flowering. I would put those where I could see them from my kitchen window or from my patio. Uh, and so that was another benefit of having them in pots, is you can move around the ones that are flowering to where you can see them and put the ones that aren't flowering kind of in the background.

SPEAKER_00 22:56

That's a good point. You could probably even disguise the pots within your planners so it would look like they were planted, I would imagine. So if you're putting them in a pot, what's your favorite potting mix that you like to use? What's the ratio of the material that you that you use, or do you just buy an off-the-shelf planner mix or potting mix?

SPEAKER_02 23:19

This is probably one of those questions that you would get like a hundred different answers from people. Um, I think most people start with sort of a big uh basic cactus soil, uh, and then they'll add things to make their own sort of uh personal mix. Uh I always add extra perlite to my mix so that it makes it uh faster draining. Um and uh I've also experimented with adding core to the mix. Um, I know a lot of people, if they live in areas that are extra hot, the core is fast draining, but it also will retain a bit of moisture so that you don't have to water quite as often.

SPEAKER_00 24:05

That would make sense, and that would really help the plumeria out a lot.

SPEAKER_01 24:10

So there are some additives that you can add also, like bone meal, um composted manures, blood meal, perlite, vermiculite, peat moss, and charcoal. Uh as long as the plant medium is well draining, um, and there are a lot of good packaged soils available in the market.

SPEAKER_00 24:35

So you would say buy it by just what you look at the label, make sure that it's the cactus mix style, so it's got that fast draining element to it. And a lot of those have the the perlite already mixed in as well, and so that makes life easy for especially the first-time grower to do that.

SPEAKER_01 24:55

Yeah, and they always say that organic soils are better, um, but they can be a little bit more costly.

SPEAKER_00 25:02

That's true too. And but again, it's your soil, it's your foundation, and if you want to have good plant results, you've got to make sure you build that foundation correctly. And I know plumeri don't like to get their feet wet. We've touched a little bit about watering, but let's talk about specifics of watering and how you irrigate them and how you make sure that they're healthy as they can be.

SPEAKER_02 25:29

Um, well, I think as a general rule, most people water their plants, uh, especially if they're in pots, they water them very thoroughly so that they uh you want to make sure that you're seeing water running through the pot. Depending on where you live and how hot it gets at your place. Um, when I lived in Huntington Beach, I only had to water plants maybe once a week and they were fine. When I moved out to Menapee, I had to water much more frequently because it's so much hotter out here. So, you uh a lot of people will use a water meter to see how dry their soil is so that they know uh when to water. You do kind of want to let the pot dry out in between waterings. You don't want, like you mentioned, the wet feet. Um, also, just a sort of a hint for uh potted plants is make sure that you don't use a tray underneath the pot that would collect the water. Uh, if you're planting in the ground, they don't, once they're established, they don't require a lot of water. They'll they'll find it on their own in the ground. Um and you want to make sure that you don't overwater. I would say that a lot of growers, uh, especially new growers, they lose their plants because they overwater and the roots will rot and um and then spread up through the rest of the plant. So um you want to be mindful of that. And whether you use a meter or um, I just stick my finger in the pot. See if it's dry, then I water it. Yeah. Um, so either of those methods work. And it's just experimentation in your own, like you mentioned, microclimate to find out how much water your plants need.

SPEAKER_00 27:20

So it sounds like plumeria would be an excellent plant choice for Southern California because they are drought on the drought tolerant spectrum, because they don't need the daily irrigation that a lot of things like lawn need.

SPEAKER_02 27:34

Absolutely. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:35

That's good news for you can have beautiful green big leaves and flowering plants that don't require a lot of water. And that's good news for us as we move forward into choosing more drought tolerant plants. And I know the roots of plumeria, when I've seen them, it's kind of reminds me of like a bunch of spaghetti. Is that correct?

SPEAKER_01 27:57

Yes. Yeah, a nice healthy plant will have nice spaghetti white type roots.

SPEAKER_00 28:04

And so you want to be careful if you're moving the plants from pot to pot or even moving it from pot into the ground to not damage those roots when you're doing that moving process, I would imagine.

SPEAKER_01 28:18

Um, if you're doing it at the beginning of the season or the end of the season as they're in their dormancy, you don't have to worry about it as much. If you want to keep a plant in a pot, but you feel like it's not blooming or it's not growing like it should, it's probably time to cut back the roots. So you can pull them out of the pots, do a nice trim, put new soil in the pot, put the plant back in there, and it will continue to grow in that size pot.

SPEAKER_00 28:49

That's interesting to know. Fertilizing the plants, tell us a little bit about the fertilizer requirements and what plummeria need.

SPEAKER_01 28:59

Plumerians are very heavy feeders and respond best to rich, well-draining organic soil. And then you can mix in some frequent supplemental fertilizing. Um, they thrive best with fertilizers that are lower in nitrogen and higher in phosphorus and ample potash, especially adding with added iron and magnesium. Proper fertilizing is the key to successful flowering. So be generous with your feeding and feed them regularly. I um there are different types of fertilizers. Um for myself, I like a time-released fertilizer for my potted plants. Um, there are several good ones on the market that would be a six-month or a nine-month time release. I fertilize them once. I cover the pot with some mulch, and all I have to worry about after that is watering. Um, they can be a little bit more expensive. So, in ground, I'll just throw out a granular once a month during the growing season.

SPEAKER_00 30:16

So you prefer the time release granules over liquid fertilizer?

SPEAKER_01 30:22

I do personally. It saves me time. You know, like I said, there's a lot of fertilizers out there. Do what works for you. I have a lot of plants and a lot of pots. So if I can do the time release, then they're more likely to get fertilized than if I use the other.

SPEAKER_00 30:40

That's that's fantastic. Go ahead, Jackie.

SPEAKER_02 30:44

Oh no, I just one thing I would agree about that. Uh, you know, those of us who have a lot of plants, um, the time release fertilizer is is uh a good a good way to go. Uh I'm also I always consider myself kind of a lazy gardener, so uh it's good that you only have to apply it once uh during the season. Sometimes I'll throw some warm castings on top uh and mix that into the soil as well. Yeah, I I like the time release stuff as well.

SPEAKER_00 31:14

So when we're looking for fertilizers, the nitrogen is going to be the first number you read on the fertilizer package, and that's the number that actually needs to be lower than the other two. And that's good for us to know. And then it also sounds like you said, just to recap, that iron and magnesium are trace elements that plumeria need.

SPEAKER_01 31:34

Correct, correct. Now, I I have to say that there are people who say a balanced fertilizer works just as well. So, for example, a 555 or a 14-14-14, they use those on all their plants. They have success with blooming. So you really want to experiment and work, use what works best for you.

SPEAKER_00 31:59

Now, I've also heard sometimes people use Epsom salts once a year to get the manganese in the soil or the magnesium. Is that an option? Is that something that works?

SPEAKER_01 32:10

Yes, that's a good thing to use to what we call wake up the plants, um, and also use them at the end of the season. That kind of helps the roots go into dormancy. And I use it more frequently than that. I'll put it on once a month during the growing season.

SPEAKER_00 32:30

Okay, that's good. And Jackie, have you had any luck with Epsom salts on your plants?

SPEAKER_02 32:35

Uh, you know, I don't use it just like I mentioned, I'm kind of the lazy gardener, so I don't do a lot of uh extra fertilizing. So once I use my time release fertilizer and and maybe a little worm castings, that's usually it for me, unless I see a plant struggling or something like that.

SPEAKER_00 32:57

Okay, that's good to know. And you do you use any of you use a cleated iron to provide the iron supplement that a plant may need?

SPEAKER_01 33:06

I don't. I don't know about penny. I don't know. Not on a regular basis. That the time release fertilizer that we have that I use has trace minerals in it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:19

So that's just what you want to be careful of rather than having to buy a whole bunch of different supplements and products. Is good something? Do your research and look at what the fertilizer you're using has in it by reading the label. Penny, you mentioned mulching your plants. So talk a little bit about the mulch that you like to use.

SPEAKER_01 33:39

I just use whatever mulch is on sale at the nursery.

SPEAKER_00 33:44

So any of that works. Do you have a particular size that you like or it just would be aesthetics?

SPEAKER_01 33:51

Um, I like the finer mulch, a little bit more ground up, something that's going to be more like a compost, and I'll fertilize with my time release and then put a nice layer of that on top, which keeps the sun from getting to the uh granulars of the fertilizer and keeps moisture in the plant, and it's just um helps with the overall health and growth.

SPEAKER_00 34:16

Have you had have you used any things like gravel or rock or anything like that, the non-organic mulches? Or do you either know anything about that?

SPEAKER_01 34:27

The gravel and rocks because of the heat element, you don't want to burn the trunk of the plant, like a um, especially if it's in a pot.

SPEAKER_00 34:37

Yes, so you really have to beware of your climate.

SPEAKER_01 34:41

Correct.

SPEAKER_00 34:42

Okay. So besides fertilizer, do you have any tips for getting a plumeria to bloom?

SPEAKER_01 34:48

What do you think, Jackie?

SPEAKER_02 34:51

Well, this is a tricky question because some people uh like the fertilizers that have the high middle number uh because it does force blooming in the plants. But as Penny mentioned earlier, um, a lot of growers are are using more balanced fertilizers. Um you have to kind of think of it as if you get that high number, it is going to force the blooms, but then uh your plant is gonna be focused just on blooming and not developing roots or you know, um or healthy leaves as much. So, you know, you're you're giving up something a little bit by forcing the blooms.

SPEAKER_00 35:35

So you're you're better off just being patient with the plant, letting it do its thing, get established and bloom on its own, and not worry about fertilizing for a bloom.

SPEAKER_01 35:46

Correct. And also another factor might be that the location that the plant is in, especially in a pot. Maybe it's not getting the amount of sunlight that it wants in order to develop the blooms. So that's what's nice about having them in pots, is you can move it to a different location if you're not getting the results that you want where it is. For example, if you're getting long leggy branches, maybe it's trying to find the sunlight and reaching. So those are some factors that you can put that plays into blooming as well.

SPEAKER_00 36:20

Okay, that that's good to know. So if I do get tempted and buy that little plumeria cutting from the airport gift shop after a Hawaiian vacation, how do I get that thing to grow?

SPEAKER_02 36:33

Um And I know those aren't very good cuttings, but well, they you know, they're okay, but that but there are challenges. Um, you know, you do you're you're gonna treat them like any other cutting uh as far as propagating a cutting. Um, but you have to take in mind that they've been sitting in a plastic bag for a while, and um they may be a little bit dehydrated, they may be need to be recut. So the first thing is I would always encourage, I know it's very tempting to buy those, and if you don't have plumerias growing in your area, we're lucky in Southern California that we have so many local growers. Um you know, I have like multiple people on speed dial if I want a certain palmeria, right? But you're just gonna treat it like any other cutting. Some people do if the cutting is a little dehydrated, some people do soak it in water or maybe a little bit of uh, you know, water with a little bit of super um super thrive or something like that added to it to to plump the the cutting up again. Um one thing about a lot of those uh packaged plumerias is that sometimes the directions will call for people to plant it in sand. And we don't necessarily recommend planting in sand. Um, it might be okay for actually starting a cutting and getting roots, but it doesn't provide any kind of nutrients for the plant. So uh instead of having to root it in sand and then move it to a pot with soil, it's better just to start with the pot and soil and get it to grow that way. So usually with a cutting, I don't know if we talked about this earlier, but um, you want to make sure you have a clean, straight cut. Um, there should be some a little bit of sap flowing, that means that it's it's sort of ready to be planted. Uh, a lot of people make the mistake of trying to root cuttings during the winter, which is not when you want to be um trying to plant cuttings. Some people do it, um, they have to use heat mats and sometimes grow lights. So I always just wait till spring, which is when most people do their um rootings. Once you cut it and it's a little sappy, I dip mine in rooting hormone. Um, some people do, some people don't. Uh, and then I just put it in a pot with some cactus soil, like we talked about earlier, and prop it up if it needs a little help staying straight. I'll use a little steak to keep it in place. And then you water it one time and you ignore it for about three or four weeks. And that's the hardest part for people is ignoring the plant. So you want to put it somewhere where it's not getting full sun because it'll dry up, but um, maybe somewhere that has uh filtered sunlight or under your patio where it's going to get a little bit of morning sun or something like that. You don't want to water again until you start to see new growth coming at the tip of the plumeria cutting. Um, a lot of people will tell you no leaves, no water, meaning if if a plant doesn't have leaves yet, um you know you don't need to water it because there's no roots to take up the water and you don't want to get root rot. So that's that's how I do. I don't know if any of you would have a different um method than that.

SPEAKER_01 40:05

Uh no, that's pretty much it. I do use the rooting hormone. Sometimes I'll put some sulfur powder on it as well. Um, and then I like to see my root development. So I will use a process called bag rooting, where I take a just a regular sandwich bag, I fill it with my, I use core and perlite, 50% of each. Uh, dampen it like a wrung-out sponge. I'll put that in the baggie, I'll put the cutting in, I wrap it with electrical tape, and then I put it someplace where it's warm but out of the sun, and then I can see the roots growing in the bag. And so once I have root growth, then I'll transfer that to a pot with the potting mix.

SPEAKER_00 40:54

That's that's a good technique. So if you're bringing a cutting home, say from a friend, and you're getting it here in Southern California, you don't do you need to let it dry out, or is it okay to put right in the ground when that sap is running?

SPEAKER_01 41:10

No, no, you always want to let it callus at least for a few days to a week, right, Jackie?

SPEAKER_02 41:16

Yeah, and there's different um, again, different ways of people doing that. I tend to uh once the I've cut the cutting and it's uh let the sap dry a little bit after uh I dip it into the rooting hormone, and then I use saran wrap, and I will um cover the end of my plumeria that I've just cut with saran wrap and secure it with a rubber band, and this prevents the cutting from drying out. A lot of times the core of the cutting will um sort of dry out and sink in, and that's not what you want before you're gonna um pot it up. So the saran wrap helps keep it uh sort of uh plum. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 42:10

Grafting plumeria, is that something that's possible? And is that something that the amateur gardener could do, or do you have to have a little more expertise?

SPEAKER_01 42:19

Well, I've never tried it. I've watched it done. There are a lot of um plumeria enthusiasts and experts who do it. It's difficult, um, it takes practice, and you have to be prepared to lose some of your attempts. So I wouldn't take a cutting that I felt was rather expensive or unique and practice on that. I would probably try it with something more common like a cellodyne or something that if you lost it, you're not going to be upset. I would hope in the future that I might be able to do that. I'm out of real estate for planting plomeria, so I'd like to someday graft some unique varieties onto my existing trees, but I've never really done it myself.

SPEAKER_00 43:10

Okay, interesting. Jackie, what about you?

SPEAKER_02 43:13

Uh I'm I've also not done it myself. Uh I do have uh it's very common to buy plants that have been grafted. Um I would say the majority of my plants have probably been grafted by somebody else before I bought them. It's quite common to graft. Um, there are some some plumaria varieties that are more difficult to root than others. And so it's it's common to graft those instead of trying to root them. Uh, but it's not something I've tried myself. But uh but there like Penny said, there are a lot of people who do it. I think it just takes practice. And just to you know, to be honest, I've been a little scared to try it so far. So I have Tried it myself.

SPEAKER_00 44:01

Okay, that and I know a lot of people and a lot of people listening to our program are into grafting. So if you want to take a risk and you want to do something different, that might be something to try.

SPEAKER_01 44:11

One of the gals that was showing us demonstrating at one of our meetings for the Mary Society, she said she practiced on carrots. She practiced her cuts on carrots because a lot of the grafting success is by how you cut the two pieces. So if you've got your rootstock and your scion and you've got a perfect cut that matches up, you're going to have better success. So she would take her knife and a bunch of carrots and she would practice her cutting whether you use the slant cut or the inverted V. So that's just a little tip that she taught us.

SPEAKER_00 44:48

Very interesting. When you do cut a plumeria, there's that white milky sap that comes out. Is that harmful to people, pets? Do people have reactions to that? Is that something we should avoid?

SPEAKER_01 45:02

Uh definitely be careful. Um, it can be poisonous and irritate eyes and skin. Um, I've never had a much of a problem with it. If I get it on me, sometimes it'll itch, but I've never had any bad reactions. But there are people who might be a little bit more sensitive and it could. So I would definitely be careful around your pets that it's not dripping on your pets and then they're licking it up, and your children.

SPEAKER_00 45:28

So when you when you're going to cut plumeria, like if you're going to trim them or something, I I would trust you wear gloves and you want to avoid touching your eyes and take all of those kinds of precautions.

SPEAKER_01 45:40

I try to lay something underneath the plant and so that it will catch the drops. I sometimes will put a paper towel on the cutting to absorb the liquid so it doesn't, because it is a latex, so it does leave uh a sticky, gummy substance behind.

SPEAKER_00 45:57

Okay, that's that's a good idea. I hadn't thought about putting something underneath or the paper towel method. So those are excellent tips. So the winter season is is coming here in Southern California eventually. How do I get my plant ready for the winter season? What do I want to do?

SPEAKER_01 46:16

Well, plumarias will begin to shut down for winter, um, some areas sooner, uh faster than others, depending on what your climates are, but the shortened daylight periods signal the plant to start dropping its leaves. Um, as the leaves start to fall off, it is time to stop watering, fertilizing, or using any pesticides. And like we talked about before, if you have them in pots and you live in an area where you're worried about the frost and the freeze, that would be the time to start moving them indoors, whether you put them in your garage, in a greenhouse, or somewhere that they're safe for the winter. Okay. Um or if I've got a lot of mine in the ground and they can't be moved. So if I'm worried about the frost, I'll take some frost cloth and cover them during those periods so that uh I don't lose any of my trees. Um, sometimes I find that the tips will turn black and I have to do some trimming from frost damage.

SPEAKER_00 47:20

All right, that's good to know. You also mentioned maybe some Epsom salts and wanted to ask when the leaves start falling, is it okay to pull all of the leaves off? Or should you let them fall naturally?

SPEAKER_01 47:34

Mine sometimes tend to not drop until really late. But if I get into November and December and they haven't all fallen off, I will cut mine off.

unknown 47:46

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 47:46

Um, but some of my trees are so tall now that I can't reach them and I've had to just leave them. And I've I've heard different theories on that. Some people say that leaving the leaves on during the cold months will help protect the branches. I worry about any bugs that may overwinter and then be on the plants when they start to bloom. So I think it's personal preference. What do you think, Jackie?

SPEAKER_02 48:13

Uh I definitely I think the only thing I would add is if you're going to bring them inside, like in a garage or something like that, that you do trim off the leaves. Before I brought mine into the garage, I trimmed off all the leaves uh to sort of help them go into dormancy. And also because I didn't want to pick up a big mess of leaves on my in my garage once they did start falling off. So you can do it uh sort of as a preventative measure of your bringing them inside.

SPEAKER_01 48:46

Just remember that you're you want your plant to go dormant in a healthy state. So by cutting the leaves off, it's helping store the nutrients within the branch rather than still trying to feed the leaves.

SPEAKER_00 48:59

Yeah, that's good to know. So there's two philosophies where the leaves will freeze first in a cold situation or bringing the nutrients back into the plant. So unfortunately, any plant as beautiful as a plumeria has a pest or two that like the plant as much as we do. What pests should I look out for and how do I best control them?

SPEAKER_01 49:19

Well, um, I found that there are uh several that you want to look out for. There's the foliar thrip. Um, it's a tiny, tiny bug. And the adults are black or dark brown, and the immatures are white. Um, their scale, um, which comes in a variety of colors. It can be green, brown, black. It's tiny but easy to see with the naked eye. And the females produce hundreds of eggs. Um then there's mites. Um, they're can be light green to yellow, transparent, shiny, um, and their eggs are clear and oval. And then there's um Stevens Leaf Hopper. So the easiest solution, of course, would be to just cut off the leaves and throw them in the trash. Um, there are several insecticides on the market that you could use. Um, a good source for what to use on these um uh insects would be to visit the um Orange County Master Gardener's website and refer to their pest notes for uh the specific pest and how to treat it.

SPEAKER_00 50:34

So you first of all, if you have a pest, your best to identify it. And then once you've identified it, then try removing leaves in the infected area. And I like that method too, because it usually takes care of everything. And then you have to go to something else and you can look at what is the least. So whenever we're doing insect treatment, we always want to do the least harmful first and see how that works.

SPEAKER_01 51:01

Yes, you know, spraying certain bugs spraying with water will be sufficient enough. If you catch the infestation early, it's easier to treat. So, yeah, you always want to use your best um IPM methods.

SPEAKER_00 51:15

Yeah, integrated pest management is what we always want to do with our pests. So if I wanted to see plumeria, especially if I'm thinking about buying one or two and I want to know do I like the fragrance, do I like the color? Where is a good botanical garden to see plumeria?

SPEAKER_02 51:34

Um, the one that comes to mind is the LA Arboretum. It has a garden that's dedicated to plumeria. So they actually have a plumeria grove. The best time to visit would be during the summer months when uh blooms are um at their best. And uh every July, the Arbo actually hosts a Plumeria Day. So they have tours of the Plumeria Grove. Um, there's vendors selling plants, fertilizer, other tropical type items. And uh this year, Plumeria Day is going to be held on Saturday, July 16th for anyone who is interested in um attending.

SPEAKER_00 52:17

Okay, that's interesting.

SPEAKER_01 52:19

They give tours of the grove and they know the history behind a lot of the plants. It's really a fun, uh, a fun day. They have vendors that will be there where you can purchase plumeria. They've got, I think the society tries to do a booth so you can ask questions about you know how to grow pests. Um, it's really, really a fun day. I recommend anybody who has the time to go visit.

SPEAKER_00 52:45

Oh, that'd be fantastic. That's a good field trip. I'm gonna wait for summer and I'm definitely going to do that because that would be beautiful and would give me a chance to see some of those plumerias. There are any last additional tips or words of wisdom on plumeria that either of you want to tell us.

SPEAKER_02 53:04

The only thing I would add is, you know, people often joke that that you have to have patience to grow plumeria. Um, and so um, you know, keep that in mind if you're a new grower, that um they they do take time sometimes to get established and to produce blooms. I know one of my favorite plants, uh, it was in the ground for three years before it gave me any blooms, but after that, um, it bloomed every year. Um, you know, keep in mind that there are different varieties, uh, different growing habits. So if you have a smaller yard, you may want to focus on plants that are compact or uh dwarf growers so that you can uh actually see the blooms in your yard. The other thing is if you want to learn more about uh taking care of your plants, um, you could look around for societies in your area. We have several here in Southern California, um, including Coachella Valley, um, the South Coast Plumery Society, which is located in San Diego, and of course, um uh my favorite, the South Coast Plumery Society, where we meet in Anaheim, and most of the societies, all of their meetings are open to the public and free. So you can usually visit the website and find out what uh what topics they're going to be covering on any particular uh meeting. And um they're a lot of fun, um, a lot of nice people who love to share their love of plumeria, um, and and everybody's willing to help uh help out all the new growers. So that that would be my my tip.

SPEAKER_00 54:50

This is In the Garden, and we've been talking about plumeria with our guests, Penny Lawyers and Jackie Campus. Thank you, Penny and Jackie, for joining us today and sharing your knowledge.