EASI Ag Talks
Epic Ag Solutions Inc (EASI) Ag Talks is a podcast focused on creating opportunities in modern agriculture. From input costs and market volatility to soil health, crop management, and technology we break down the problems farmers face every day — and explore practical, data-driven solutions. Our goal is simple: maximize return on investment, help producers increase yield, and improve efficiency. Straight talk. Smart strategy. and Stronger farms.
EASI Ag Talks
Episode 7: Bryan McMurtrie
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
In this episode Bryan McMurtrie and Tom Uthell go over and explain what Holganix is and what they do to help the every day farmer.
Today at the show, we've got uh Brian McMurtry with Holganics. Welcome to the show. Thanks, Tom. We'll let you talk a little bit about yourself and give an intro as to what your role is at Holganics, and then we'll dive into what Holganics is and what you do and how you do it.
SPEAKER_00Okay, perfect. Yep, so I am the uh regional sales manager um for Illinois, so I'm covering the entire state of Illinois. Um I've got a couple sales guys that uh work on my team and some sales ops and logistics and stuff like that. But uh I've worked in the industry, the agricultural industry, for close to 20 years now. Um I've kind of done a little bit of everything. Um, I've worked in retail, I've worked in precision, I've worked in seed sales, um, more recently worked on the tech side of things. Um, and then now I'm I'm here at Horganics and was able to join this awesome team. Got it.
SPEAKER_01So tell us a little bit about the background of Holganics. What do they do? How long have they been in business? How are they different than some other companies out there? Uh, and we can dive into those one at a time, but I'll let you explain who and what Holganics does currently.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so Holganics is a soil health company. Um, we focus on soil health, regenerating the soil, building it up, and and there's a lot of aspects whenever you do that, um, a lot of positives. Um, Holganics has been around um, well, we we've been around for for a little lot longer than we have in row crops, but we started in turf and ornamental. Um Barr Ursik, our our owner, our CEO, um, had a really large lawn care business in Pennsylvania. Um, and he used to put down an awful lot of fertilizer on these yards, and he would say, you know, we put a lot of fertilizer in our yards to make them green and make them pretty. And he was in the Chesapeake Bay area. Um, so there was an issue with a lot of algal bloom and hypoxia and different things like that in the Chesapeake Bay area. And they actually came to him because he was the largest um lawn care business in the area and said, hey, we need to do something different. And it just so happened that that year, too, there was kind of a tragedy that his fertilizer shed burnt down. So he had no fertilizer to spread, so he had to come up with other options, and that's where Holganics was kind of created there. Um it was created for turf and ornamental. Um, that was back in, I believe, like 2016, 2015, somewhere back in there. Um since then, it has progressed into the agricultural side of things. It's kind of a funny story, is a couple Amish guys got a hold of some of our product and used it on their pumpkins or watermelons off for what they were growing for contest. And they won the contest. They called us up, wanted to place an order. They're like, We're farmers, we want to place an order, and we don't sell the farmers. So we ended up having our very first grower meeting um with this Amish community and started selling and said, hey, we really got something here. Um so since then we've grown, we're on uh over three million acres today.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_00So it's a fertilizer company. It it started out as a fertilizer company, yeah.
SPEAKER_01It it it did, yep. Yeah. So uh you you talk about soil health. So what are we actually trying to do with what we have? Yep, and how do we utilize that for next year's crop?
SPEAKER_00Yep, absolutely. So in in the past, to drive soil health, we've always been told reduce tillage, plant cover crops. Those practices will help build biology and build soil health. Most all soils out there today are bacteria dominant. Um we we we test them, we find out it's 90 plus percent bacteria to 10% or less fungi. What should it be? So ideally, we want to get that to a 50-50 ratio. Um the fungi are what we consider the predators, and we want to reintroduce those predators to that environment. Now, the bacteria are great. We need the bacteria there. The bacteria do a lot. They consume those nutrients and they hold on to them. But the problem is they hold on to them and they're not not readily available and plant available. So we introduce that fungal network, then fungi out there, and even protozoa and beneficial nematodes that then feed on that bacteria and release that back into the soil and make a lot more available to the plant. So if you ever do a uh a TND test, um it's gonna show you your available nutrients, your unavailable nutrients. Well, those unavailable are exactly that, they're unavailable. How can we take like those P2s and release them and get them into P1 so it's readily available for the plant? And that's what Holganics ultimately does on the on the fertile fertility side of things, is we help release all of that and we balance out that that biology in the soil and bring that fungi to bacteria ratio as close to that 50-50 as we can.
SPEAKER_01So you mentioned phosphorus specifically, right? P1 and P2. What about potassium and sulfur, nitrogen, and you know, some of the other, I don't want to say major players, those are major players. And then I'll go into what about some of the microbes, right? The manganese, the MOLLE, and so on.
SPEAKER_00So it's the same way with them. Um, you know, one of the biggest things that we can do is help you cut your P and K. Um, because you have a bank out there, and let's let's uh utilize that bank, um, especially input costs are through the roof this year, fertilizer costs are crazy. Um, how can we help you cut those inputs? Um, and if you have cut inputs because of cost and cut your fertilizer, we can work as an insurance policy for you. If you're concerned that, hey, I cut this, my plant's gonna suffer. Well, we're an insurance policy, we can help release all of that. On the nitrogen side of things, what we do is help you become more efficient in that nitrogen cycle. Um, so there's studies that have came out that only 36 to 42 percent of the nitrogen that we put out there is available or used by the plant. We lose the rest of it, whether it's through leaching or nitrification, just uh volatilization and all of that, that we don't use all of that that we put out there. So, how can we drive you to be more efficient in your nitrogen use? Iowa State came out and and the new number now for removal rate is 0.53 pounds per bushel. So, how can we get guys down to that and efficiently and effectively use the nitrogen that's out there and be able to go from one pound down to 0.5, 0.6 and still grow an amazing crop?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Yeah, I've seen a in all of the testing we've done, about 0.67 or so is the most efficient we've been. So we're we're kind of knocking on the 0.53 door, right? Yep. But that, you know, you have to have a lot of things line up. And I know a lot of times growers don't, you know, they don't want nitrogen to be their yield limiting factor, right? We don't we want it to be water or temperature or lack thereof, you know, those. And so how do we create a situation or how much knowledge do you have on the fact that we don't create nutrients and making them be the limiting factor, the yield limiting factor? I mean, is there testing that you do, or do you have a lot of data to back up some of the thoughts here, or what do you think?
SPEAKER_00So we've got a ton of data to back all of this up. Um we actually have one of the largest databases um in AG with our with our Horizons platform. We've got, I believe it's around 8 billion data points. Um so we've been taking tests, soil test, um, we've been taking core samples. Um, so we we're doing 18-inch cores now, um, and then plus the other soil tests that we've been doing to back up all of this. Um we know that using less fertilizer and using horganics, we're seeing nutrient levels go up. Um we actually have guys who have completely cut P and K out of their fertility program, but yet every time they test and they're testing more regularly, those tests all go up.
SPEAKER_01What have their yields been doing? You know, that sounds really good, right? I'm I'm hooking buying a hook, line, and sinker, but what's happening?
SPEAKER_00Absolutely. Yields are actually going up. Um using less nitrogen, using less P and K, using horganics, and yields are the best they've ever seen. Um what we say is, you know, you're not gonna recognize your farms in three years after using horganics, and you're not gonna recognize the soil, but you're not gonna recognize those yields. You know, you can look at those best yields you've ever had, and we want to take you to that be your average. Um so yeah, we we're seeing cut in all of this, but then at the same time, uh yields are going up, soil tests are going up, and everything else. Right. Okay.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean, we we don't talk, we talk about soil health, and that's pretty loose, right? Uh at the end of the day, we've kind of been big on the bacteria and fungi ratio, but not very many people, if any, have focused on it, right? And so, you know, that's where I always say that's where the bad guys hang out's on the bacteria side, right? You know what I mean? That's where we get our crown rots and our red crown rots and and sudden death and a lot of those things. Yep. And so it's interesting to hear you talk about increasing fungi to help balance that out. And once we have that ecosystem, right, that's more balanced, correct. We're going to create, I would say, a lot healthier plant from that respect. That's not talking anything about nutrient uptake, though.
SPEAKER_00So the whole nutrient piece is the nutrient piece is just one piece of Holganics. Um, all of the other stuff that we're doing too are at input savings to the farm. Um, so yeah, when you get that all balanced out, you know, we see less disease pressure, and because of that, less fungicide use. Um, a lot of your diseases are soil borne, you know. You look at tarspot and different ones, you know, if we can bring in those beneficial fungi, they'll and beneficial protozoa and beneficial nematode, they're gonna feed on those parasitic ones, the path, the pathogenic ones. Um, so we see a reduction in that. Um, and and changing that soil biology. So, what we're doing is I always ask guys, have you ever had a CRP field? And that's been in a CRP program for 10 or 15 years. You take that out, or you take a fence row out, and you start farming that. You're gonna have amazing yields for the first year, two years, and then it starts falling off. Well, the reason it starts falling off is all the synthetics we're putting out there, the synthetic fertilizers, synthetic chemicals, our tillage practices, we start killing off that biology. Mother Nature took 10, 15 years to create that biology. Or more, or more, or more. Sometimes it takes 50 years. Um, but what we're doing is we're reintroducing that biology and we're fast tracking all of that. So we want to turn everything back to that soil health, that soil biology that a CRP field would have after 15 years. We want to bring all that back to life out there.
SPEAKER_01So I'll I'll take this one step further and say what what what are the means of application? What's the timing of application? If I'm if I'm buying into what you're saying, tell me more about how it's applied and Yep.
SPEAKER_00And so what's great about Holganics is the ease of use. Um we're not asking you to do anything special. We're just saying get it out there for us. If you're making a pass already, whether it be, you know, we're we ask that it be applied in the spring and it be applied in the fall. So spring we want it plus or minus two weeks from planting. The fall, we would like it to follow the combine as close as possible because we're gonna work on another piece is the breakdown, um, the degradation in the fall. Um, but it's ease of use. You're don't make an extra pass. Um, if you've got a system on your planter, run it through your planter and furrow two by two. Um, if you're doing a burn down pass, put it in with your burn down pass. If you're doing a post pass, put it in there. Um, the only thing you can't mix this with is fungicide. It's gonna kill off the fun mix. But just get it out there for us. You know, we haven't seen benefits of in furrow versus broadcast. It it all works great. Um, it's just get it out there and let it get to work. Okay. And it's at the rate is half gallon uh to the acre. So we're not adding a whole lot in into that. So if you're running it um in furrow, you know, throw it, throw it in there half gallon with three or five gallon of if you're running fertilizer or if you're running something else. Um, same way with broadcast, you know, springtime, 10 to 15 gallon, you know, overall.
SPEAKER_01What if it's in with a 32% nitrogen application as a you know, that's a lot of times a carrier with their perfectly fine corn.
SPEAKER_00Perfectly fine. Okay, so the that actually helps it. Um that acts as a feed source. So we are live and living. Um we're not we're not spores, we're not something that needs to start to take off. We're live and living. So as soon as we put that out there, it starts to colonize, it starts to duplicate and and replicate and just start growing. Um, nitrogen is a great feed source for it to really give it that little kick at the beginning and really start going. So it doesn't hurt it at all. Actually, our fall product, we put a little soil release nitrogen in there to act as a feed source to really get it established in the fall.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_00Do I need moisture? So the two keys to getting bacteria, fungi, all that to grow is heat and moisture. Um, so it'll lay there dormant and and kind of wait for moisture to come. But if we can get it timed right, you know, even in the fall when we're applying it, we say apply it early in the morning, late in the evening when you start to get some dews, that'll help take it off. Um but yeah, we do need moisture to to kind of activate it and get it going, and and we need warm temperatures too.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, but how else does the program work then? So I we don't need to get into cost, right? Because you know, we just don't normally like to go here. But tell me more a little bit about uh how the program works. You want it applied in the spring and in the fall. Yep. I think you mentioned carbon here a little bit. So Yep.
SPEAKER_00So so yes, um, we we basically we sell it two ways, um, or we have uh two ways of using it. We call it our brown juice acres, which is all right, this is gonna give you a ton of agronomic benefits, you're gonna have a real ROI there. Um, guys are using it for that, those purposes, and that's that's ultimately why it should be used, is because of the agronomic side of things. Um, we found out, and it was another kind of accident, that hey, we're really increasing the carbon values in the soil. Um, one of the things that we do great is build organic matter. Organic matter is 48% carbon. So we had found that in the CO2, the sequestering of carbon, we're actually doing it sequestering 15 times the carbon that a normal acre would do. Um, and this was kind of by accident that we found this out. We saw all these carbon values going up, and we're like, hey, we got something here. So a typical acre will hold or sequester a third of a ton. A Holganix acre on average is five tons, so 15 times more. So we we saw that and we thought, you know, there's got to be a monetary value here. There's something that we could do to help growers out and bring more savings to the farm, but also another revenue stream to the farm. So we started digging into it. And with us sequestering that much more carbon, there is definitely a market for it. Um, so we've also have a carbon program, we call it our farm possible program. And basically what it is there is the requirements are you you apply in the spring, you apply in the fall, you agree to reduce your nitrogen down to 0.9 pounds or below. Um, you don't have to cut your P and K, we just ask you to, and then go to a no-till minimum till operation. So six inches or less tillage. That's because we don't want the carbon being released back to the atmosphere. Then we have all these carbon uh insets and offsets that we can then market and sell for you. Um, and the way that works out is if you go into the Farm Possible program, we're actually paying you for that carbon, which covers the product, and then it nets you quite a bit, also.
SPEAKER_01Really? Is that a payout once a year, twice a year?
SPEAKER_00So it's a payout that we do twice a year. Um when you're in the carbon program, we're coming out and we're pulling 18-inch cores to test all of this because we find that with the fungi and everything else in our mix, it's driving that carbon down deep. So we've got to get a baseline. Um, it's a three-year commitment to be in the program, and then we come back the next fall, the next fall, the next fall. So we get a baseline and then we test every fall to identify how much carbon is out there. Um payments are going to come. So we're getting ready to sign guys up for our 27 crop year. Um, we sold out on our 26 crop year last fall. Um, we're we're getting guys in line for the 27 crop year. So we would come out and test this fall. You would plant your crop in 27, we come out and test again in the fall of 27, we would see what that increase is. Then your first payment would come out in March and then the March of 28, and then the second payment would be in like August of 28.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_00Um, but we split those payments.
SPEAKER_01Okay. And so what happens if I'm say I'm in it for three years, I'm not in it for the fourth year, would there still be payments because the payments are a year late?
SPEAKER_00No, it well, technically, yes. So the payments, so you'd be in for the year, your payment comes the next year, and so yes, you would be getting that payment. Um, and then once your three-year um runs out, you could just re-enroll it and go right back in. Yep. Okay. We're seeing that carbon market really grow. Um, we're doing everything we can to help push that carbon market. Um, we've got connections we're making, we're talking to companies and everything. Um, I don't see this carbon market going away. Uh, if you look at it, the voluntary carbon market right now is about a five or six billion dollar industry. Um, we see that going in the next six, eight years, going to probably a $24 billion industry. Um, so that carbon industry is really growing, and more and more companies are needing to do something to offset their carbon footprint.
SPEAKER_01Wow, those are big numbers.
SPEAKER_00Those are really big numbers, really big numbers.
SPEAKER_01So, how many acres would you like to have, let's say, 2027 rolled around? You sold out at three million acres last year for 2026, I should say. Yep. Where do you see 2027 going? I mean, is there a production capacity limitation or is there uh you know a program limitation? What do you foresee? What would you like to see?
SPEAKER_00So production limitation, there is no limitation on production. Um, we just opened a brand new facility in Kansas City. It can produce enough product for 10 million acres a year, and we're currently selling three million. So production is not an issue. Um the only thing is we can sell as much product as we want on agronomic benefits. Um, as far as our farm possible carbon program, we are limited on that. Um we have an allocation of 2 million acres that we're gonna add to. Um so that equates to for me in Illinois, I've got 200,000 acres to sell in Illinois. When we sell out of those, we're out of them for the program until the 28th program gets opened up. The reason for that is we don't want to flood the marketplace with all of this carbon now. Um we want to just put enough in there that we can help drive that market, but we don't want to drive the price down on it. Um, so that's why we're only offering, you know, we only have two million acres to to put into that program, but uh it's it's gonna go quick too. Um it's a it's a huge opportunity to be able to get in this because you know it's a great piece, but the agronomic side of things is even better. But if if we can put those two together, it's it's it's amazing.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I've I've seen a little bit of this product in the past. It is it is truly amazing as to what it can do. Yep. Um stress mitigation I saw was was huge to be honest with you.
SPEAKER_00So uh and that all comes from our we're lowering the bulk density of that soil. So therefore, we're raising the water holding capacity, we're increasing organic matter. Um in a drought year, you're gonna see a horganic acre under less stress. It's not gonna roll, it's not gonna, you know, be stressed out like the neighboring acre would be. Um so a happy plant is a healthy plant and ultimately a higher yielding plant. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that that's a whole nother side of it. That you know, and the oxygen piece, the permeability, the all those things are are a big piece of the puzzle that one and one equals three on pretty quickly.
SPEAKER_00Yep, yep. I mean, we like I said, we see the changing in bulk density, the lowering of bulk density. You know, if you change a tenth of a point percent uh or a tenth of a point, it's huge. We're seeing two to three um points change or um tenths change. Um so we're lowering that bulk density, which is allowing better water infiltration, but then raising water holding capacity. Um, you know, we're seeing that organic matter just increasing, you know, sometimes the whole percentage. Um it's it's we're seeing guys have to do less tillage. Guys that are typically pulling deep rippers and chisel plows through the field have sold their rippers. Um, we've got a customer over in Missouri, River Bottom Ground, farm some of the nastiest muck gumbo there is. He'd rip the ground twice in the fall, rip it again in the spring, level it off, and plant it. Um, he became a customer of ours about three years ago, and the first year we told him, Hey, you're gonna end up selling your ripper, you're not gonna rip this ground anymore. He thought we were crazy. He's just like, there's no way the guy doesn't own a ripper anymore. Um he went from using 12 semi loads of fuel down to four semi loads of fuel. Um so that's an input savings. Um not having to wear and tear on that machine going across the field. And yields have stayed up and yields are better than he is. Ever seen him better than he has ever seen him. Wow. It's crazy. How long has he been using it? I think he's going on three years now.
SPEAKER_01Because you know the soil doesn't didn't it hasn't gotten where it is overnight, right? Obviously not going to change it overnight, but that's why I ask how long.
SPEAKER_00So three years is a So we we see a benefit. Um you'll start to see benefits after one application. Um when I talk bulk density and I talk water infiltration, there was a third-party study done where it was one application of organics and they tested every month the water infiltration and how that went up. And by July, after that that first application, water infiltration was up 64%. Wow. It was crazy the amount of um water going into that. What we like to say is if you've got a field that's borderline, should I tile it, should I not? Put organics down. I bet you're not gonna tile that ground. Now tile has its place, sure. It it works really good, but we're gonna increase the effectiveness of tile too. Um but we're gonna help so much water go in, you're gonna see less runoff, so less erosion. Your your ditches aren't gonna be full and the neighbors' ditches are gonna be full. So we've got that water in the soil that we're able to hold on to when it does turn off dry. Right.
SPEAKER_01That's awesome, that's huge. I mean, water holding capacity is all you know is is the key to the game, and then yeah, oxygen is the other piece and those can go hand in hand.
SPEAKER_00Correct, yep. You change that aggregate of that soil and you open it up and it allows more oxygen to get in there. Yep.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So what do we need to do if we want to get in the program? Contact, you know, one of the reps you have, yep. Uh and uh get more information. Correct. And do you have product for acres for applications this spring if someone wants to get get involved?
SPEAKER_00If somebody wants to get involved this spring, absolutely, we got a ton of product. Um if you want to, if we if we can guarantee your acres going into the program this fall if you buy some product from us this spring. Um we're going ahead and securing those acres and saving, essentially saving a guy's spot in line. Um so if you purchase some product from us this spring, become a customer, we'll be able to lock in your acres for this fall. Um, it's easy to get in. Um, like I said, you just got to do the two applications. We've got a really easy application to fill out. Um, once you fill that out, then we acquire your field boundaries, we put that into our system, you approve those, and then you sign a contract and you're in the program.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_00Sounds easy.
SPEAKER_01Really easy.
SPEAKER_00Is there anything else we need to know? Anything else you'd like to share about organics or the process or I mean we cut we covered quite a bit of stuff there. Um it's to tell you the truth, we're not doing anything special. It's Mother Nature that's doing it. Um we've just found that magic mix that has everything in it that that uh that you need out there. Um we're reintroducing that predator, we're reintroducing that that biology out there. You know, um, a lot of college professors, when when you talk soil to them, if you ever say dirt, they hate it when you say dirt. Yeah. Um, but I hate to say it a lot that we have out there is dirt, and how can we take it from dirt back to soil? And that's what we're doing.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Well, you know, the the monocrop, right? The we've taken a lot of the products out of the rotation, whether it's wheat, clovers, you know, oats, alfalfa, radishes, whatever the case might be. And that's I don't want to say that's the reason that we've led, you know, we've been led to this path, but you know, we've taken a lot of diversity out, and that's taken a lot of species that are sometimes healthy for our soils, aka fungi. Correct. You know, and created a bacteria heavy. And, you know, we fight those bacteria, you know, from an agronomy side, walk in fields, we see a lot of those issues, and you know, they're painful, and everybody wants to know. It's like, how do I eliminate red crown rot? How do I eliminate charcoal rot? How do I eliminate you know, all these different diseases in our fields? And you know, crown rot, you know, these are big yielders, right? Okay. Red crown rot will come in on soybeans and corn can get it as well. We've seen that. Yep. You know, a lot of times it'll come in and take 15 and 20 bushels. Yeah, you know.
SPEAKER_00Uh so let's not use synthetics, let's use Mother Nature to do it. Right. Um, and and that's the thing about our product. We call it Bio 800. We call it Bio 800 Plus. Um, it's because we have over 800 species in that, you know, 600 over 600 species of bacteria, over 300 species of uh fungi. Um, we've got uh protozoa, we've got beneficial nematodes. Um, and what's really neat about our product too is we DNA fingerprint every batch that we make, so we know exactly what's in there. So we've got everything covered. When we've we've probably got close to 2,000 species in our mix, um, but because of California labeling laws, we're only able to say 800. Um, but we've got everything in there that you need to do everything.
SPEAKER_01Right. Awesome. Well, it sounds like a great opportunity to bring some soil health back and and uh some beneficial fungi and and beneficial bacteria as well. So all right, awesome. Well, we look forward to trying some of it this year, yeah. And uh seeing what we can do to help change things, I'll say, from the ground up. Yep. So perfect. Perfect. I appreciate you having me on here today. Thank you for coming out and making the trip and uh yeah, appreciate your time on the show. Thanks. All right, thank you, Brian. Yep.