Inside The Writers Room w Ben Cory Jones

The writers room is not a mystery club, it’s a workplace with real rules, real politics, and real opportunities if you know how to show up. We sit down with Ben Cory Jones (Insecure, Boomerang, Underground) to talk about what it really takes to build a sustainable screenwriting and television writing career, especially when you’re not starting with connections or a perfect plan.

Ben walks us through his path from Memphis to Morehouse to Wall Street, then the pivot that changed everything: discovering TV writing as a craft and deciding to pursue it with structure. We dig into the long game of Hollywood success, including applying to writing fellowships multiple years in a row, learning under demanding showrunners, and building the kind of community where one win can lift the whole group. If you’ve ever wondered how writers actually get staffed, why representation matters, or how a manager differs from an agent, we break it down in plain language.

On the craft side, we get specific about pilot writing, character development, and the moments that make audiences lean in. Ben shares his rule for openings that grab by page three, why an early “death” (literal or emotional) creates stakes, and how to write with actors in mind so your dialogue plays like a meal. We also talk room culture, flat versus hierarchical rooms, how to pitch without draining the energy, and how to make yourself indispensable on day one.

If you found value here, subscribe, share the episode with a filmmaker or screenwriter friend, and leave a review with the biggest lesson you’re taking into your next draft.

Transcript

Freestyle Podcast And Resources

SPEAKER_13 0:00

What's up? It's your girl, Michelle, aka Showrunner, your filmmaking coach. I'm an EP and a filmmaker who probably watches more filmmaking content than actual films, and I hope that that makes sense. So I decided to start a freestyle podcast where I just talk all things filmmaking. No heavy edits, no overproduction, just real conversations about filmmaking, funding, faith, and the real business behind getting your project from concept to screen. If you want to know more, you can head over to showrunher.com. That is S-H-O-W-R-U-N-H-E-R to download free resources, watch pre-recorded webinars, grab some freebies, or book a one-on-one session. I am also available for hire. All right, now let's get into today's episode. Thank you so much for being on the call today. We are super excited and super appreciative to have you on. Hello, everybody. Thank you guys for joining. Hey TK. Hey, Claudine. Hey. Um, okay, so let's get started. I already hear record Jerry. So you, I got you, girl. She's gonna say, I got you, girl. All right, welcome everybody to coming inside the writer's room with Ben Cory Jones. I am super excited for this conversation. Um super excited for you to bring your expertise and also allow people to ask questions and get more information. The writer's room is such an amazing place to be. It's like so unique. And I'm always figuring out like, how do you get there? Um, and a lot of things I know that you will answer today. I often sometimes think I'm a screenwriter until I talk to a screenwriter. I'm like, yeah, I'm not a screenwriter.

SPEAKER_00 1:48

Yes, you are. Yes, you are.

SPEAKER_13 1:53

So I just want to welcome everybody, everybody that has jumped on. Thank you guys so much for being here today. We are super appreciative. I am so um feel honored and excited that I can have Ben Corey on uh this call today, showrunner, writer in the writer's room. And I'll tell you a little bit backstory. In 2018, is where I first like met you. My film was being nominated at the ABF. And I came to your writer session, and I was like, I've got to get there. Because at that time, for Insecure and you guys to be doing what you were doing, it was just such an amazing thing for filmmakers. So to be in a room and to see how you got into that room and have opened the doors for so many people in variety of communities were amazing. So you did such an amazing job at that talkback. And so thank you.

SPEAKER_00 2:44

Thank you.

SPEAKER_13 2:50

So again, thank you so much. Uh, the Showrunner Plus community is a background community for filmmakers that are ready to elevate their projects, get them filmed, get them funded, get to the next level. Um, and so a lot of what we do in like our 21-day class is talk about the writing. Like you have to have a good story. Um, so we'll shed some light on to that. But without further ado, I would like to introduce you guys to Ben Corey, uh producer and screenwriter of not only Insecure, Boomerang, so many other films that you're working on and some other projects that you have uh coming up. So I'll let you have the floor to tell us a little bit about yourself, who you are, and all of that good stuff.

Memphis Roots And Becoming A Reader

Wall Street To Storytelling Pivot

SPEAKER_00 3:32

Yeah, well, I'm excited to be here. This is literally the highlight of my week. Like whenever whenever I get to talk to like all these beautiful brown faces, like no lie, like no cap. Like, I love doing this. And I first, Michelle, I want to shout you out, like for real. Like the fact that you put together a community like this, like having spaces like this, like it is so important, right? Like, and I don't know if people give you your flowers, but I'm gonna give them to you right now because like, yeah, let's give it up. Like, like the fact that you do such selfless work and to coach people and to help people and give up your time, like these, like if y'all, y'all gonna hear me say this a lot. It's hard. The the challenge has always been to get black people on screen and to tell black stories. I've been in Hollywood for 15 years, it's the same struggle then as it is now. And the fact that Michelle creates this space for us, it is a rare gem. She is a rare gem. So, Michelle, girl, thank you. And I I like these these are I wish I had something like this when I was coming up. So, like it's a real testament to how dedicated you are, and we need people like you in this industry because it takes everybody to put push the rock up the hill. And so, shout out to you for doing such an amazing work, and you're so classy, you're so classy. So, I really want to just shout you out and give you your flowers for creating this such this unique opportunity, and y'all take advantage of it when she when she posts stuff and she got stuff, like take advantage of it because it's all this not like I can't tell y'all how many networking events and talkbacks and panels, I was in everything coming up, and and y'all can do that stuff virtually now, so take advantage of it. So, shout out to you, Michelle. Thank you so much. You're welcome, and I sincerely mean that. And it's not just because you're sitting here in front of my face right now. I truly, truly mean that. And and I I just really want to make sure that that I say that because I truly mean it. Um, so I mean, I guess I'll just tell you guys a little bit about my background and how I got started as a writer. Uh, I'm originally from Memphis, Tennessee. That's where I am right now. Uh, I be over LA sometimes, so I got to get out and get away, you know. Um, but I was from Memphis, Tennessee. I was raised by a single dad. Uh, I guess like the most significant thing that happened to me uh in my life, my mother died of breast cancer when I was seven years old. So I was raised by my brother and I was raised by a single father. And before my mother passed away, she was a fourth-grade teacher. Um, and my mother was like a voracious reader, like she had like a literally a library of books in our house. And as my mother was, she she died of breast cancer, and as she was sort of succumbing to the disease, and as she passed away, I just found myself like wanting to have a connection to her. So I would just find myself going to the bookshelf that she had in our in our house and just reading books to kind of find a connection to her. So I was like eight years old reading the color purple, and nine years old reading like all her Danielle Steele books, you know what I'm saying? And I would find her little like notes in the books, and it just like I because she died so young, I even to this day struggle with memories because my mother had breast cancer twice. So she started getting breast cancer when I was five. And so my memories are of my mother are actually attached to the books that I read, right? And so little did I know being such a young reader, I was actually kind of becoming a writer, but I didn't know it. And you'll hear me say this like any writer is a reader, right? If you want to really be a great writer, you gotta be a reader. And so I was like 10 years old reading a wrinkle in time. Like I had no business reading these books, but I looked at it as a way to connect to my mom. And so that was kind of like the most significant thing that happened to me because like my dad and my and I played sports, and my dad was the best dad ever. He was like my baseball coach, basketball coach. And like I would go to the baseball field and basketball court. I ain't really love it, but I did it. Like I'm good at sports, but I didn't love it. But I would race home to go back to my book, to my mom's bookshelf, so I can read, right? And so to the to this day, I always have a novel by my bedside. It's just what I am, it's just who I am and what I do, right? And I guess like the first time that somebody told me that I was actually a writer, y'all gonna kind of get a kick out of the story. So um, when I was applying for college, the I I wanted to go to Morehouse. Like, I wanted to go to uh to HBCU. Obviously, Spike Lee's school days played an important role in my life, and I saw that movie. And so the essay question to get into Morehouse was like, who is the most influential person in your life? And I wrote about my mom. Like my mom was like, she was that girl, right? Like my mom got her master's degree while she was going through chemotherapy. Like she was studying for her like master's in education while getting chemotherapy. And I remember doing my little kindergarten homework on her bed, right? So I wrote my essay about how my mom was like, was the most influential person in my life. And like, I think everybody else wrote about like, I don't know, Martin Luther King or whoever else, but I wrote about my mom. And so my dad, uh my dad worked at an all-state insurance company all throughout our life. And my dad, he got a call from the admissions director at Morehouse while I was a senior in high school, and the admissions director was like, hello, Mr. Jones, this is Dean Hudson at Morehouse College. And we just want to call and tell you that we got your son's essay, and this is literally the best essay that we have ever read. And so clearly, your son is a writer. We want to offer your son uh to come down to Morehouse. We want to offer him a full scholarship. He's gonna major in English and he's a writer. And I was like, Well, hey, and my dad was like, Boy, what did you write? You know, and I was just like, I just wrote about mom, you know what I'm saying? Like, and I had my English my English teacher, I took AP English, I had my English teacher read the read the essay, but I just wrote, I just wrote about what I exactly what I told y'all about how she got her master's degree or doing chemotherapy. And like I went down to Morehouse and I toured the campus. They told me I was the writer, they told me I was gonna major in English, so that's what I did. But come to think of it, like I hated math, I hated science. I I count on my fingers to this day. Like, you don't want to go to a restaurant with me because I'm like, what a calculator. I don't do none of that, I don't even manage my own money, you know what I'm saying? Because I have a shopping addiction, we'll get to all that later. But you know, it was like, and I I count that as a key moment because like somebody had to tell me that I was a writer, but I'm gonna tell y'all all right now. Y'all are all writers. If ain't nobody told you, because everybody has a story to tell. And so Morehouse was the first place to tell me that I was a writer, and so I majored in English, but also like when I got to Morehouse, I started seeing all these guys like walking around in suits. I'm like, I want to wear a suit, like they look fly. Like, what is this? Like, I want to wear a suit. And also, my dad, again, he's a businessman, he worked at Allstate. He was like, Okay, son, you're gonna major in English, but like I really and also Morehouse has one of the best undergraduate business programs. And they actually, Morehouse actually sends the most black men to Wall Street because like whenever you know they're looking for their diverse diversity, they come down to Morehouse, Spelman, Clark, Atlanta. And so all those guys who are walking around in suits at Morehouse, they were like finance guys. So my dad was like, he he made me, y'all. He made me get a minor in finance. My dad made me get a minor in finance. So I minored in finance, even though I still can't do math. And I actually made I made one C my entire time at Morehouse, and it was in accounting. Like, I was like, dad, come on now. However, when I was getting ready to graduate, so here I have an English degree, uh, English major, but a uh finance minor, and I got recruited. So most people don't know this about my stories, and so I got recruited by JP Morgan Chase. So when I graduated, I worked on Wall Street as an investment banker. Wow, right? Crazy, right? So, and because what Wall Street does is they really like people that know how to critical think. And so, like in my English courses at Morehouse, I took African American lit. I took a whole class on Shakespeare, I took a whole class on Harlem Renaissance literature, I took a whole class on Chaucer, I took a whole class on Milton, I took a class called Um Men in Society that just talked about the cultural uh history of men in society and black, like I just learned how to, I took a class on linguistics, right? Like, you know what I'm saying? Like my mind just became widened, but I also, I because of my father, I just have an interest in business, right? So I I get to New York, so I moved to, and also I went to live in New York City, like who does it? Like, right? Like I see if any of y'all have a chance to like live in New York at some point, do it. Just go do it. Like, just do it. And that's one of that's one other key piece of advice that I have for a writer and anybody getting into entertainment, like, don't let this entertainment thing be your end-all be all. Go live a little life a little bit, right? And I'll tell and I'll tell you how that plays into cure when I get there, but like go live a little life a little bit because so I went to work on Wall Street, hated it, hated it. Hey, I'm like, uh, like, what am I doing here? But I was I was 21 years old, making$80,000 a year in New York City, right? So I graduated Morehouse in 2005, right? Who's it? Some summer night is lit, like so lit, so lit. Like, and this was also before the market crash. So we're like buying bottle service at the club. We're taking car service. Like I was in my I lived in Harlem right when Harlem was being like, was like changing. Y'all don't know, nod your head if you know what I'm talking about. Yeah, you know you know what I'm talking about.

SPEAKER_13 12:47

We telling our A's, we telling our A's.

NYU Class That Changed Everything

SPEAKER_00 12:51

But however, like I still, and so this was also 2007, 2008, 2007. And guess what was happening in entertainment? Gray's Anatomy had just hit, the Sopranos had just hit, uh, the office had just hit. Uh, what else was hitting? Like all these shows, and I found my like my roommate at the time when Thursday night in Gray's Anatomy came on, do not talk to me. I'm in front of that television. And this was also around a time where, like, like everybody, I'm dating myself, but like before social media, we all had blogs. So I had a blog where I would just be writing about Gray's Anatomy, just as a blog, like just as a blog. And so I I had transitioned from investment banking. I have the gift of gap, I can run my mouth all day long, which is why I'm also a writer in television. I convinced the bank to hire me in the communications department. So I was 23 years old and I became the vice president of corporate communications, the Bank of America Securities. So I was in, it's crazy. I was in charge of all corporate communications for the investment bank, right? And so I was like, this was also the time where blogs were becoming like digital media was becoming a thing. Also, Miss Adventures of Aqua Black Girl had hit, right? And I was like, yo, we need to learn about this digital thing. YouTube was just becoming popular. We I I convinced them to take that that I need to take like classes at NYU to learn about this new digital stuff, right? And this is very I was also going through a breakup at the time, so I needed some distractions. Like, y'all, y'all will learn, like, I'll have no problem with sharing my business. And that's another trait about me as a as a writer. Like, I'll tell you all my business, right? I do this in a writer's room too. And so I convinced them that I need to take like some classes at NYU. And very serendipitously, I was flipping through the course catalog. Now, mind you, I'm addicted to Grays Anatomy. I have a film blog or like a TV blog, and I saw I saw I flipped to the course catalog and I saw TV writing. TV writing had never crossed my mind. I'm from Memphis. Nobody has ever told me that this is 2008 now, 2007. Nobody has ever told me. Oh, right, right. What was that? Okay.

SPEAKER_12 15:04

Landa, of course. Right.

LA Move And Fellowship Persistence

SPEAKER_00 15:06

Okay, so Landa. Nobody has ever told me that television writing is a career, right? But then I started to do the research on how much money they make, right? And it's not necessarily obviously it's not about the money, right? But as you can see, like I'm fine, I'm finally trying to merge all of my interests into one, right? Like, like, because television, there's a business aspect to it as well. Like, there's a because I look at television writing like there's a very structured way that we have to do television, which I'll get into a lot later. So, long story long, um, like, so I I convinced them to pay for me to take the digital writing class and the TV writing class. So I get into the TV writing class, and my professor is uh is a writer on Seinfeld. So one hour into the class, so this is the class at NYU. So it was a two-hour class. The first hour we would watch a classic episode of TV, like Frasier or uh uh Seinfeld, whatever we would watch, and then we would break down the episode. I was in heaven. I was in heaven. Like it was in that moment that I realized what I was supposed to be doing for the rest of my life, right? Like I just found myself come alive. Like I quote, found my passion, right? Like I just I it it all connected to me. It connected like my love of reading, my love of writing, my business side. Like, because when you when you ask me to like analyze something, that's what I'm good at. Like that's what I can do, like the why of it all. Like I'm a like I'm I'm a kind of a journalist in the aspect, right? And then the the stock market crash 2008. I have friends that worked at Lehman Brothers and Bear Stearns, they showed up to work and the doors are just locked, right? They like no email, right? So I took my severance package and took my little fledgling film blog and I moved to LA. And and I was like, so my I specifically wanted to be a television writer, right? And also shows like no resort. Like I'm I'm a queer black, I'm a queer black man. And so, like, watching what Patrick and Pope did, I was like, I want to see my life reflected back to me, right? So I get to LA in 2008 and like Lena Ways, I met her at a coffee shop. Issa Ray, I Issa Ray would just like hold these like wines, like literally uh uh uh windows in her apartment, like that we that she had like after the shows. And like I just met Issa Ray like being invited over to her house, you know what I'm saying? And like I and and I guess this is just sort of the intro to my like right. This is just the intro to my story, but I mean, I I I I also I got I got into my Bible during that turbulent time. I just started, I really wanted to connect to myself because I knew that I was in a transition time. Like, let me also say this when I graduated college, I realized something very quickly. Whatever job you work, hallelujah, whatever job you work, they're gonna ex you're gonna be expected to give 110%. So you might as well find something that you love, right? Like I know there's a lot of talk about finding your passion, and and I think you're gonna whatever job you're going to be doing, you're gonna be required to give your all. And as I was sitting in that bank, I'm like, they they emailing me at eight o'clock at night. I gotta be at work at 8:30. I could that means I gotta get on a train from Harlem at 7:30. They mean I gotta get up. If I want to get a workout in, I gotta get up at 5:30. You know, so it's like I might as well figure out what I truly, truly love to do. Uh, and when I got into that writing class, it reminded me of my high school English classes where we would just sit around and we just talk about the the Scarlet Letter, or we talk about uh uh the bluest eye, you know, and again, I had read these books from my mom when I was 12, you know what I'm saying? And so, like, that's what got me into writing. And I think that what what what what what worked in my benefit was that I quickly understood, and I thank my mom for this. Like, I thank my mom, I'm I'm just a descendant from my ancestors, I'm just a descendant from what my mom laid out for me. I mean, and that's why I say I looked forward to things like this. My mom's a teacher. I'm a teacher, right? Like, so I do what I do so that I can teach other people how to do it. And and when you in and this this this conversation is about being a showrunner, a showrunner is like working at a teaching hospital, right? Because when I run a show, I'm teaching you how to write the show that I created. So I'm creating the show, but I'm also teaching the other writers how to get this show so that we can all create a successful show, you know? And so that's sort of how I got into writing. And so when I moved to LA, I I'm a one that I'm one that takes calculated risks. I'm never wanting to be like, quit your job and go for the thing. No, like let's, let's, let's, let's map this.

SPEAKER_13 19:50

Oh, that is so me.

SPEAKER_00 19:51

I'm gonna quit into I'll be in in Tennessee tomorrow if I let's let's let's let's plot let's map this thing out, right? Like let's let's get you a look, let's get you a day. And Shonda Rhymes talks about this all the time. Let's get you a day job to get your basic needs met, to pay your rent, buy your groceries, buy your little outfit every now and then. But when you when you go home, get yourself in that final draft and and log three hours and writing their script. And and and two months later, you'll have a script and work your side job till your side job becomes your main job, you know? And I'll go into like all the assistant jobs, but when I moved to LA, I got into they don't have this anymore, unfortunately, but I got into ABC. I used to have a production associates program. And I got into that program, which basically we were floater assistants around ABC Studios. But my main goal was to get into one of these writing fellowships, and so this is a testament. My main goal was to get into ABC's ABC Disney Writing Fellowship. But let me tell y'all what um Karen Horn, who used to run, or maybe she still runs the NBC Writers on the Verge, she said it's easier to get into Harvard Business School than it is to get into one of these writing fellowships.

SPEAKER_08 20:58

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 20:59

And that's facts, right? So it took me four years in a row of applying to the ABC Disney Fellowship before I got into the ABC Disney Fellowship. But every year I would make it. One year I didn't make it nowhere. Next year I was a semifinalist, the next year I was a uh finalist. One year I made it to the final round of the WB, the Warner Brothers Fellowship. I was number eight and they picked seven. You know, and it's like I was crushed. I was crushed. I was crushed. And that's that's gonna happen, right? But it it's like it's like if an actor is getting an audition and you make it to the screen test, but you don't make it on the show, you gotta know that you you you have it. You're just waiting for the right, right opportunity. You just can't give up, you know. Um, so so I'll stop there so I can kind of catch up to the story and sort of or or you know, or I'll I'll let Michelle take it, uh, you know, moderate the next sort of set of questions. But that's how I got my start in the industry.

Relationships That Open Writers Rooms

SPEAKER_13 21:59

Um Listen, we're totally opposite. I will leave tomorrow. I don't be worried about a job. I'm like, I gotta do what I gotta do in the streets. So I love that stability. It, you know, especially now in today's time, it is needed. I want to comment on something that you said that I feel like is very interesting. Um, how when you move to LA, you know, you met Isa and Lena, like these things, I think sometimes we don't even know that who we are talking with, who's in this room, the potential of where people will grow, right? And how cultivating these relationships are so important to our careers.

SPEAKER_04 22:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_13 22:41

Because, you know, somebody that you're talking to day to day may get an opportunity and just pull you on board. And you're just like, wait, what happened? But the relationship building in the film industry, I kind of want to touch on that because that is what actually allowed you to move forward into the writer's room. So tell me how that relationship kind of evolved and the importance of having uh genuine relationships in this film industry.

SPEAKER_00 23:09

Yeah, it's everything, it's absolutely everything. You know, like Issa Ray, when Issa Ray got insecure picked up, she shouldn't she sent me a text and she was like, My show got picked up, writers room starts on Monday, this was a Friday, you know, because we had that relationship because we had been we had been bumbling around LA doing different things, filming little skits for YouTube. Like, you know, it was like when she won, we all won. Because we were just all in this sort of we had we were in this crew together, right? And I think that like you you, I mean, you you have to try all the things. And what I mean by that is like I try I did writers' groups, I formed my own writers' groups. We would do like table reads or something. Like, if I wrote a script, the moment I finished writing the script, I call Isa, Lena, Justin Simeon, Ashley Blaine, anybody, and we'd be like, All right, I got I got wine and cheese, y'all come to the crib, we're table reading the script, right? And we were building community, right? Like, and we we literally looked at ourselves as like this, you know how like Spike Lee had Rosie Perez and uh uh uh uh Radio Raheem and Giancarlo Esposito and like uh all of them, like that's exactly what they were doing. And you gotta create be creating that version of your of your of you where you are. You gotta do it. You there like, and it's almost like you can't really, you don't know which lane is gonna make you hit, so you gotta try all of them, right? You gotta try the fellowships, you gotta try the independent make something route. You gotta try the you know, just make do it on your own with your community route. You gotta try the networking route. Like, you know, like you gotta just sort of try it all. But I really think that, and also like it's it's virtually impossible for you and you alone to make it and and to try to canvas this industry on your own, right? Like when I would have a meeting, like if one of us got a meet, oh, I got a meeting at HBO. All right, cool, I'm gonna mention this thing you doing, I'm gonna mention this thing you doing. And then it's so it's like that's how we would start to get our names out there, right? Like, because by the time I had a meeting over at NBC, this person had already heard of about me because Isa dropped my name and Lena dropped my name. And then if I had a meeting over at BET, they were like, oh yeah, I heard about you, and da da da. Like all those things add up. So by the time I had a meeting with them, it'd be a warm meeting, meaning that they had already heard about me in the ether somewhere, right? And again, I'm not trying to make it all sound like these relationships are transactional because you also, I know somebody mentioned in the chat you're gonna hear a lot of no's. You need somebody to commiserate with. This industry, this industry is a is a industry where you're gonna hear a lot of no no's and yes. Also, the more talented you are, they don't have to tell you you're good because you kind of already know. So they're gonna tell you what needs to be fixed, right? And so, like, finding your community is very, very, very important. And just finding people that you can kind of like bounce your ideas off of, and you can have somebody to read your work and give you feedback. However, let me say this very clearly. Um, you have to also be classically trained. And that's a term that I use just to say that like learn this craft as best as you can. Whether you're a writer or whether you're an actor, learn it as best as you can. Like, take some time to work up under somebody, you know, like don't skip out on that step. You know, like I know in this day and age, like there's a such a tendency for us to like just kind of strike out and start doing stuff and making stuff. But a lot of like I've gone through a lot of my career, a lot of ups and downs, and a lot of times, like my my my confidence has taken beatings. But I I made a list, I've worked on a total, I've been in a total of 15 writers' rooms, six as an assistant and nine as a writer, right? And and I've written, I can't, I've written hundreds of scripts at this point, right? And I've studied under a lot of different people. So those times where my confidence has taken hits, like I've gotten close to selling over like 10 different shows, but at the end of the day, what you can't take away from me is the the work that I've done and build my skills, right? So if somebody telling is telling me that they don't like my script, that's their opinion.

SPEAKER_04 27:09

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:10

You know, I know I've done the work, I know I've logged those hours, I know I've read the books, and I know I've done the seminars, I know I've trained, I know that I know that if somebody is telling me, if I put my script on the blacklist and it got a three out of ten, I can level set my expectations of where my writing is, right? Like I know where my writing is. I worked on the Misha Green, everybody. You know what I'm saying? Like of underground and love crap. Misha green don't play, you know what I'm saying? After I worked on underground, you can't tell me nothing, okay? Like, and you also have to seek out these experiences that are gonna like Misha Green worked under the guys who did Sons of Anarchy, and that's Kurt Sutter, right? She worked, she she learned under those like high tank white movies, and that's how she ran our underground writers' room. I'm gonna tell you a little secret. If Misha didn't like what you wrote, she throw a script at you, like lovingly, lovingly, but she didn't play, you know, and like and and I don't run my rooms like that, but I say that please let that stay here. But Misha and I are good friends, I give her shit all the time, but like there is a there is a bar of excellence that she sets for her writers, like our outlines were 30 pages or on the ground. This a script is only 60 pages, our outlines had to be 30 pages, and if and if your outlines weren't novelsque, you had to go back and rewrite it. Yeah, yeah, you know, and so what and so I and now I'm getting on my little soapbox, and so like this is the sad, this is the hard truth, is that oftentimes you're gonna go pitch to a network, you are never gonna be sitting in front of somebody who looks like you. When you want to pitch a show and get a show picked up, it is going to be white people, right? So they already don't have a connection to us culturally. So your work does have to be a little bit better. Your your work on the page does have to like make them go, oh shit. You know, because you already have that cultural barrier, right? Like, you know what I'm saying? Y'all kids already don't go to the same school. For certain, I'm just using this sort of as a as a sort of like example, you know, hypothetical example. So I I whenever I have a you know a writer's workshop or whenever I mentor writers, I'm like, no, this is it has to be great. It does have to be great. Only for the fact that what we're what we're up against is that we're not oftentimes meeting with people who look like us, who can kind of immediately get us on a cultural level, right? You know, uh so again, I went off a tangent, but finding and so finding a space where you feel safe and you insecure was this space where I felt so validated in my voice as a writer, that I felt so um energized to come into work and tell them about my dating experiences and felt validated that they would show up on the page and show up on screen, right? That did wonders for me as a writer. You know, I can talk about that some more, but it it is it is finding that community and space to validate you as a writer. And I'll validate you all right now that we need that's why I'm so glad to do things like this. We I need, you know, Eric and Tatiana and Brianna and Ashley and Ebony, I need y'all's specific stories because that's what the world needs to see. And yeah, and I have to imbue you guys with a self-a sense of confidence to tell those stories that are specific and that are authentic and that are vulnerable, right? Because we don't the world needs to see themselves reflected on these screens. And when y'all see shows that don't do it, you know, it's because it's a challenge to do so. But I'm here to tell you that give yourself the right to tell your specific story.

Pilots That Hook And Hit Hard

SPEAKER_13 30:53

Good. All right, y'all hear that. All right. I have like a two-part and I don't know which direction to go. I want to talk about how to, I want to talk about the inside the writer's room. Sure. But I also want to talk about what it takes to make a very unique story, like the scripting, the characters, because oftentimes we write, we have stories, we have ideas, but to flush it out on paper is a completely different situation. So kind of two part before we get into the inside um the writer's room, what is it and what helps writers, right, when they're trying to tell a story, trying to make it unique and trying to make it a show, like the shows that you have written on, the shows that we love to watch and see, whether it's a series or a film. Uh, so what is what is this thing about unique story and the character development? How important is this when we are writing in our script?

SPEAKER_00 31:53

It's very, very important. I'm gonna give you guys some some um some some trade secrets here. This is what I do on my writing. I make sure that the opening of whatever I write, either you either you are so enamored by it that you have to put it down, or you gotta keep reading. Like I I treat my openings like an atomic bomb explosion. Right? Like there is no easy opening for me. Because I need to grab you by the throat, literally, and not let you go.

SPEAKER_04 32:35

Yeah, yeah, right.

SPEAKER_00 32:37

That's one trick of mine. And I think that to me, the best shows are the ones that understand that y'all got we all have so we're all such critics, we all have so much more use of our time that if you don't catch me on the first three pages, I'm out.

unknown 32:55

That's it.

SPEAKER_00 32:56

Right? That's one. Um, the other part is um somebody needs to die in this first episode.

SPEAKER_12 33:05

Oh god, no, I have such a hard time killing my characters. I feel so sorry for them.

SPEAKER_00 33:17

Yeah, yeah, yeah. See how difficult that makes you feel? See how difficult that makes you feel? Now, now let's reframe that, right? So that can be a literal death, that can be an emotional death, that can be an ego death, but like something significant needs to happen that up in something, right? You know, like that reaction I just got out of y'all is what needs to be happening in your story. You know, again, it doesn't have to be a literal death, but the feeling that you just got right there, oh no, is what needs to be happening emotionally or literally or figuratively in your story in that first episode. Because why else why else do we care? You know, a lot of times that could be an ego death, like like, and a lot of times that is like you lose something that is so that you thought you'd never lose, you know, like Lawrence never thought he'd lose Esau. Molly never thought East would go on stage and say broken pussy. Facts, right? That show got picked up, didn't it?

SPEAKER_12 34:38

Ouch.

SPEAKER_00 34:39

You know, yeah, like that was the worst thing a friend could do to you. Go on stage and rap about your your your dry pussy. Seriously, you know, like that broken pussy rap is what got that show picked up. Because I mean, that is like the that is like wow, I cannot believe she did that. Yeah, that is an emotional death of a friend. Like, if your friend did that, I would have to question whether we friend we're whether we are really friends.

SPEAKER_10 35:07

That's true, that's true, you know.

SPEAKER_00 35:10

So think of it in terms of that. Like, and I and I tell people like I I even think about that in my shows, like, what's my broken pussy moment? It really, it really is that, like, it really boils down to that. And I look, I and so when I'm writing a drama, I am gonna kill somebody for some show. Somebody's gonna die. If I'm writing a one-hour drama, something like the the pilot of Underground, the baby dies. When she drowns her baby because she does not want to birth a baby into slave. And when I saw when I was, I was in a I went to the premiere of that, I went to the premiere of Underground in LA and I jumped and screamed. That's when I was like, oh, I gotta write on this show. I gotta write, and I wrote on this show for second season, and I was the only writer to get a solo writing credit, by the way. Anyway, uh, thank you. Thank you. Because one writer got fired, which I can talk about when we talk about inside the writers, and I'll tell you why that writer got fired. I'm not gonna name any names, but I can tell you what uh precipitated that. But um that that's the kind of, and I think sometimes like we we we um you just gotta go there. You just have to go there, and I think like thinking thinking in terms of like ego deaths, emotional deaths, literal deaths, like not being afraid to take your characters to the brink, you know? Not being a and then like you almost have to be like, I always like to think of it like let me tell I wonder if I would if I take my character here, what would happen? Ooh. I can't like if you take if you if you ever tell if you ever say to yourself, I can't do that, do it. Yeah, because what we said on Insecure was I was like, well, what if, what if uh uh God, I'm blanking on the character's name now. Um the the light-skinned guy that Molly dated first season, who who said he got his his dick sucked by another guy. What's his name? Anyway, they were like, oh no, he we can't put that in the show. I'm like, we're absolutely putting that in the show. Only because you said we can. And then we had this big that discussion went on for three days. They were like, there's no way he's gay. I'm like, why is he gay?

SPEAKER_04 37:26

It was one time.

SPEAKER_00 37:28

That discussion raged on for three days, and I'm like, and what we realized was like, if we're discussing it for three days, the world is gonna discuss it for three months. Yeah, like come on, you know what I'm saying? And this the point of it is like is like giving yourself the like you have to take your you have to put yourself in it and then take yourself out of it. You know, these are these are real people here, these are real characters, yeah, and you have to push them further than you always think you can. You got to push them as far as they can go. Because at the end of the day, we all watch TV and movies. We want to see somebody go really, really, really, really, really, really far. And then it's your job to work to bring them back. Because if they can come back, it gives us hope that we can.

unknown 38:16

Gotcha.

Writers Room Roles Schedule And Pay

SPEAKER_13 38:17

Oh, that's good. That's really good. I like that. Where's Rihanna? Where are you at, Rihanna? I like that. All right. Now you have the idea for the unique story. Let's backtrack. Friday, you get a call. Monday, you're in the writer's room. Tell us about the writer's room, a TV writer's room. I know um, as a screenwriter, it is a lot of dreams to be in that room, what goes on in the room. So tell us a typical day, how the process works. Um, I know some people may want to know the pay and some good stuff that's involved in it. So give us the rundown about the writer's room.

SPEAKER_00 39:00

Yeah, well, I'll start with the technical stuff. Uh, I mean, first, the first levels, the levels are staff writer. They, it's like, I like TV because it's very structured, like it's like corporate America, like, right? It goes from staff writer, story editor, co-producer, producer, supervisor producer, consulting producer, uh, executive producer. Those are all levels. Like those little names you see scrolling across the screen, those are just fancy names for writer. They're all just writer. Even if they say producer, they're just writer, right? And the the higher you go up, the more quote responsibility. If you have producer in your title, that sometimes means that you have responsibilities that usually go beyond just writing. You probably are on set, or you're probably dealing with like, you know, wardrobe, or you're talking, or you're having your own notes calls with the network, but all of those are just writers, right? So I'll just deal with like some of the like lower level, like staff writer, story editor, co-producer level, right? Um, so I'll I'll deal with like let's say you're first starting on the job day one, right? Most writers' rooms starts at start at 10 a.m. That's the beauty of it. Like it's not corporate America, so you start at 10 a.m. Um You got me over already.

SPEAKER_13 40:09

I'm there. I'm there already.

SPEAKER_00 40:11

They start at 10 a.m. And most writers' rooms are gonna end right at five o'clock on the dot. Right at five o'clock on the dot. Lunch is always at uh is lunch at 12 or lunch is usually right at one o'clock. LA lunch is always one to two. Uh maybe sometimes 12 to 1 or 12 to 2. It all depends. I think one to two. Um, first day, first day on the job, y'all, everybody'll go around and introduce themselves, talk about what shows they worked on, and blah blah blah, you know, just kind of give a little bio, get a little bit of intro, right? Um on in I'll say what we do on insecure. On Insecure, the first two days, Issa and Prentice Penny are showrunner, and sometimes how that works is like Issa Ray had never been in a writer's room before. Um, and so Prentice Penny was hired as our showrunner. So technically he's the showrunner, but Isa Rae created it. So Issa and Prentice, before we all got together, they had a separate meeting to kind of get on one page, get on one accord, get on one page. But Prentice Penny had been on TV shows way before. So he's very skilled at like knowing how to run the room from a technical standpoint, but also making sure that this is Issa Rae's show and that her voice is being heard. We treated them as like mom and dad, right? Dad's kind of the disciplinarian, mom's kind of like the sweet one. That's how we kind of treated them, right? But we all knew that this is Issa Rae's show, but they worked together, right? So, and so they had a separate room before they got to us. So we got in there with them, and for the first two days, East and Prentice treated us to like we went to like a hotel in Malibu, and we just had like blue sky. Let's just talk about big things, like no big, no real agenda. The thing about a the thing about writers' rooms is there's two types of writers' rooms. There's a writer's rooms that are very hierarchical, right? And you'll get a sense of that very early on. If the showrunners are doing a lot of talking, that means that a show is very hierarchical, meaning that like you have to very much read the room, right? And see how much, and and if it's hierarchical, there's very there's typically kind of seat arrangements where the showrunner and insecure did this too. So there's a hierarchical room and there's a flat room. Flat rooms means that like it's not hierarchical, everybody can talk whatever they want. Insecure is very much like that because we were very much like a family, right? And I'll I'll talk about that. But the hierarchical rooms kind of work in staff writers, the pay is usually about$4,000 a week, and it usually runs about 28 weeks or so, right? Um, and and in a hierarchical room, you'll know that it's such because the showrunner will talk a lot, and then the what they call the number two, or like the co-executive producers, they'll end up talking more, and everybody else will kind of like speak up when they're not talking as much, right? Or the showrunners will kind of like pick, like pick people to say, they'll say, Michelle, do you have any what what what do you think about this, right? Um, a lot of it is reading the room very early on. But in a comedy room, like insecure, like we knew very early on that it was gonna be a flat room, meaning that like everybody's opinion matters, everybody's opinion counted, everybody's here just kind of like throwing out ideas all the time. Now, that the the biggest thing to know in a writer's room is like don't cut people off, let people finish what they're saying, let people pitch, and just be a genuine good person and be a champion and a cheerleader, right? Like, um don't like try to like I try never to say the word but. I always try to say and like if Michelle is pitching something, I'd be like, oh, that's a great idea. Like if I if I like if I thought her idea sucked, which sometimes it does, I wouldn't say, like, uh, but uh I would say, okay, and you know, and they could go over there and go to the mall. And like, I would try to, like, my job is to not make somebody feel like they're stupid or their ideas are bad, but I would just try to like keep the like you always want to keep the energy in the room. You want to be thought of as a writer that's keeping the energy in the room going and keeping it high and keeping it, keeping the ideas going, right? Um, and as a and like as a staff writer, as a as a person new to a writer's room, like I would encourage you to always just come with ideas. Like your job is not to fix the show. If they're stuck on something, just be pitching. Like, what if? Always have a what if, but what if, or what if, or what if, like they love that. And they may they may say no to you 10,000 times, it don't matter. Just and always say, and and always leave with the personal if you can, you know. Um okay, sorry, I have a call coming in. And always leave with the personal if you can, right? Um what I would when I was a show running on Boomerang, I for the first two weeks, we didn't talk about any like stories or episodes. I just told people, just come with personal stories. Right? I would and I and I would go around the room, I was like, so Michelle, tell me about the last date you went on. And then I'm like, I would just and like that's just kind of how I like to run a room. And I would, and like, I would say, like, the best type of writer in a room is a writer that is like so willing to just like be as personal as possible. And a writer that just has like no filter for like, let me tell y'all about this, let me tell y'all about this, let me tell y'all, you know what I'm saying? Like, I love that kind of writer because I think that writer is just such a wealth of information, right? And just and that's what a show needs. A show needs like, like, and also whenever we get stuck on a story point, whenever somebody can come in and say, Well, this happened, well, this happened. I know what Molly would do in this situation because when this happened to me, this is what I did, you know. That was that always sort of worked, you know. Um yeah, I I mean, and writers' rooms can be very difficult at times, only because like the stories can get difficult, right? You're trying to fight figure out how to navigate your way in and out of a story. But I but I think that like just don't be the writer that is bringing the energy down. Don't be the writer that is like, uh, I don't like this. Well, what don't you like about it? I just don't make sense. If I don't like you will get fired immediately, you know, like you cannot do that. You like you gotta be the biggest, and also like think think think of think of think of it like this Let's say you got your show picked up, you're already nervous because you don't you're you're in a writer's room, so your show hasn't made it out to the public yet. So you're like every single day, you're anxious, and just like, I hope that we're coming up with good stories, I hope that we're making it, and you gotta and you hire a writer paying them ten thousand dollars a week, and they're and they're like, I don't like this, I don't like this. This you go with somebody and they're like, Yeah, let's get this. Yeah, this is dope, like this is amazing, this is awesome. Y'all are killing it, you know, and so like because I had known Issa, me and Issa, we look up, we look over each other, and I could tell sometimes when East like Issa in the first season, I had my girls back because I was a seasoned writer at this point, so the rules didn't apply to me, right? And I couldn't, and also they weren't gonna fire me because I was the best, right? And so I was like, if there were times where like she said something and they overlooked it, I would repitch her pitch, you know, because I'm like, well, going back to what Issa said, um, you know, you know what I'm saying? Like, and and sometimes you have these little negotiations with other writers, right? Or or sometimes, like, you know, you you you and again, like I I do it in a spirit of love. I do it in a spirit of wanting the best for the show, right? I don't do it in the spirit to bring anybody down, but I'm doing it in the spirit to making sure her voice is being heard, right? Or I'm doing it in this, or or if I do know that that there is a pitch out on the floor that people are kind of joking over, I'm like, no, I don't play that.

SPEAKER_04 48:42

Yeah.

How To Be Valuable Fast

SPEAKER_00 48:43

No, we're not gonna, we're not gonna do that today, you know. Um, but generally speaking, I would say be just be happy to be there, be a cheerleader, be a be a source of positive energy, be a source of light, be a source of joy, you know. Uh go home and like if you're if you're on a show and let's say you're on a crime show, every night before you go into the writer's room, read six newspapers and come with articles. Be like, y'all, I got I got eight articles that I read last night. You know what I'm saying? Be overprepared, you know. So like when they when they when they see you coming into the room and you got stacks of papers, they excited, be like, oh, what you got for us today? You know what I'm saying? Like that makes my job easier. Yeah, you know, if they don't have a researcher in the room, you be the researcher. Yeah, and I don't care if you you you're uh uh I do that to this day. If I'm on a show and I see that they ain't got nothing, I'm gonna be make myself valuable as possible, yeah, you know, because then they may want me to direct an episode, you know. I'm gonna give you guys an analogy of of this is a biblical analogy about the lake, right? A lot of times we can get one opportunity, like like you you you have a lake in front of you, right? Right, and let's say you just start planting, you it's just a lake, this little boring lake. And you take that lake and you just start planting flowers around your lake. You build a little garden, you put a little tomato vegetable garden over there, you build a little fence. All of a sudden, this lake just gets strong, gets strong, and you know, you put you you feed the ducks in their lake, and your lake just becomes beautiful. That lake becomes so strong that it starts breaking off and forms tributaries, and now your lake is connected to a river. You know, you always have to think about if I do a good job, even if you get a job as an assistant in a writer's room, you do such a good job here. Serenita singleton, who was the writer of one of them days, she was our writer's PA on Insecure first season.

SPEAKER_13 50:36

Wow, that's crazy.

SPEAKER_00 50:38

Wow. She got she brought our lunch every day, y'all. Wow, she brought our lunch, she brought our lunch, she was picking up our turkey sandwiches, first season insecure, and she just wrote a$50 million movie for Sony starring Sizzler and Kiki Palmer.

unknown 50:58

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 51:00

So this thing works, and this is one thing I can say about Sarita. Never complain, always showed up early. She was always writing. Sarita, would I be like, Sarita, I'm not if you ask me to read one more script, girl. But I read them and I gave her notes, and she would rewrite them and she would but like, don't be afraid to be bugging people, bug them to death, bug them. Yeah, they don't matter. This y'all, this is y'all got one life. Bug them to death. I don't care. Like, let me tell you the story. Whenever I was unemployed, as during my assistant days, I kept a Rolodex of email addresses. And I would uh anytime I was in between assistant jobs, or like if one show got canceled, I was an assistant on. I put everybody in the I had like a hundred email addresses, I put everybody in the BCC and I'm sending email. The subject line would be operation, help Ben find a job. Pretty pleased. I had no shame. I had no shame. And I just sent a funny email, I'll crack some jokes, and I'd be like, I'm smart, I'm handsome, I'm witty, I wear cool hats, like I wear fun sneakers, like, but then I would I would articulate myself very professionally, you know? It's just that I I was never afraid to put myself out there, right? I was never afraid to do that. I was never afraid to do that. And I think that, you know, it sounds cliche, but I was never afraid to open my mouth. And I think, oh, this this is what I want to say whenever you get into a writer's room, this is very, very, very, very key. Always speak on the first day. I don't know why that is a thing, but if you speak on the first day, you'll be good. I don't know why. I just always found say something on the first day. And I I'm gonna speak this over all of y'all. Y'all will all end up in a writer's room one day, even if y'all speak on the first day, you know, and just just claim like own your space. You belong there, you know, and every writer's room is gonna be very, very, very different. However, be a student of that show, yeah, you know.

Listener Q And A Begins

SPEAKER_13 53:07

All right, I gotta, I wanna say something. I want to open the floor because I know some people may have some questions, and I think that can kind of answer some of what some of the questions that we talked about. But that whole PA conversation, I know sometimes people do not like coming to set, they don't like I don't this ain't my role. So I you gotta do what you gotta do, and you choose it with a cheerful heart because again, you never know where the opportunity is going to lead you. So that's a very um phenomenal story from the PA perspective. I want to open the floor for some questions because Ben and I have some questions, but maybe some of these questions will be answered um from you guys. So if you could just kind of raise your hand in the thing, I think you didn't get your raise your hand or something. All right. Um, questions? Anyone has a question? Oh, hey, Ashley. Brianna! Did I say it right? Brianna?

SPEAKER_02 54:05

Brianna.

SPEAKER_13 54:06

Brianna, how's it? I'm great. How are you? You're new to the community. Welcome.

SPEAKER_02 54:13

Yes, I'm here. So blessed to be here with you all. Um hey Ben, what's up?

SPEAKER_00 54:20

What's up? Nice to meet you.

SPEAKER_02 54:21

Nice to meet you. You actually you saved my life. You don't even know it.

SPEAKER_04 54:26

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_02 54:28

Yes, um, stepsisters. Oh yep, that that movie. I had no car and I auditioned for that film and danced my butt off in that audition in that film. I was able to pay my rent for three months. Oh, yeah. I was able to buy a new car. Wait, blonde hair. Blonde hair. Yes. I have to tell you, thank you. So that story about the PA, yes, you it you can get in in any way, I guess. You can um yeah, my question is so I'm working on a movie musical. Um, I'm doing music as I am I'm trying to create this like neo swings, period ethosystem, if you will. And my question is, how do you create like the technicolor technorama shooting on film as an independent filmmaker with limited budget? Like, how do you how do you create the look of that? You have the story, but how do you create the look of that? That's my first question. And my second question, as a person who wants to make period art for the today audience, yeah, how do you create alt realities and periods that have core memories for the viewer?

SPEAKER_00 55:54

Hmm, those are great questions. Uh, I'll try to answer them as best as I can.

SPEAKER_05 56:00

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 56:00

Um, I I feel like um the the thing that you the challenge that you have is just if you can visualize it, the thing is that you just have to find a way to any with any creative, it sounds like you're writing and directing this, am I assuming, right?

SPEAKER_02 56:20

Or and scoring the music to it.

SPEAKER_00 56:22

Scoring the music, right? I wouldn't even call this a challenge, but the the the task that you have at hand is that you're just gonna have to find a way to get get it out of your head and and to be able to convey it to the people that you're gonna be working with, right? So and in that way, and you have and and I shout out to you, and and I'm I'm so glad to see you. Like, you killed that in steps, by the way. Like, you're one of my favorite dancers. Thank you. Uh y'all watch steps on Netflix and feel like we did an opportunity. Anyway, um, this is a great thing, and I think you should definitely follow through with this. You have so much talent, it's just burst it's just bursting out of you. I can see your light. So um you just have to just because uh the the the thing that we have to do as filmmakers and creatives and all that is to find a way to articulate our visions to the people that we're gonna be working with, right? So I don't know if you created a creative deck for this or created I've started one, yeah. Created creative materials for it, right? Yes, there are also great like storyboard and and and and film houses that can help you with this, but I just think it, I just think I think it's totally possible. I just think it's a matter of like you being you being able to to articulate this vision that you have in the best way possible because you're gonna just kind of need some need some help in a community to help you do that, right? Okay, uh does that answer your question, or you or do you need a little bit more technical aspects on how to actually get it done?

SPEAKER_02 57:48

No, that that gives my brain churning. I guess what I was worried about is because film is so expensive, and I just recently saw how Technicolor in LA is closing, and there's just been such a resurgence of 16 millimeter and and amorphic and all these things. It's like man, I'm really trying to make the black suite charity or like you know, like stormy weather of today, but like, but I still want it to look like that, but with people like us right now.

SPEAKER_04 58:17

Yep, yep.

SPEAKER_02 58:18

So it's like how do I just pick up a super eight and just do my best? Like, what how do I make it look that way, I guess? Yeah, starting out. That was the first question, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 58:30

I think I think you answered your question though. I think you do. I think you I mean, I'm not necessarily the best on the different sort of like cameras to use, although I do think that like I think shooting, I think just like shooting on the best type of film you can get your hands on.

SPEAKER_05 58:49

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 58:49

You know, I I I just think that yeah, shoot on the best type of film you can get your hands on would probably be the best option.

SPEAKER_02 58:58

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 58:58

You know, do you want to shoot the whole thing?

SPEAKER_02 59:00

I I do. This is like, it's like a like I said, I want to make the Black Suite charity with the with the dance breaks, with the storyline and the arts and everything. But I want to make period art where our people are not suffering, are not maids, are not shucking and jobbing, are showing light, but also humanity. Like we have businesses, we had love stories too in the 50s or in the 40s. Everything is not so demure, I mean, you know, so sad. And so it's trying to make the look of it so where it's authentic, and you can take this film serious as you would a Bob Fossey film, yeah, while showing some beautiful enlightened excellence in a period way. I don't know. I hope that makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 59:44

Yeah, connect with connect with me online.

SPEAKER_13 59:48

It's also you have to write the story, get the vision together, and then find the team, the producer, the above-the-line people to help you with that. Okay, sometimes we get stuck in the story and how we visualize it, and not understanding that that's up to the producers to figure out to make that vision come to life as a director, as a writer. Okay. Um, so I really think it's about getting a team that can understand your vision and find those resources so that it can happen for you. Because outside of that, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:20

Yeah, and it's totally it's totally possible. Like, I wouldn't, I wouldn't let that stand in your way. Okay, I think it's totally possible, and I wouldn't I wouldn't let like the the the the barriers of like because what you may be perceiving as a challenge may not even be a challenge. Yeah, yeah, okay, you know, yeah.

SPEAKER_13 1:00:35

Because you run into like, oh, I know such and such, or I heard you like what you got together. Okay, I just think the step one is just getting it together how you need to, and then finding the right team to help you with those resources.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:51

Okay, thank you, thank you, thank you.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:53

You're welcome, you're welcome, thank you.

SPEAKER_13 1:00:55

Uh Ashley, Simone, you're so pleased.

SPEAKER_11 1:00:59

Ashley, I just want to say, hey, thank you so much for having me on this. This has been awesome, it's been really powerful. And I um I'm enjoying hearing such wisdom from such an experienced and talented person. Thank you for your time.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:13

Thank you.

Creative Process And Writing For Actors

SPEAKER_11 1:01:14

One of the things I always want to know when I come across talented people is what's your creative process when you're writing? I know some people are like they flow right into it and they don't need anything. And some people are the outliners, and some people are so good at it that they can kind of outline while they're flowing. And so I was just kind of wondering what that process is like for you.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:35

That's a great question. Um, so the first thing that I do when I'm writing, it's so it's it's a it's a few different answers to that question because I have there's a lot of work that I do for my job, which is like I'm I'm writing like series documents for producers that I'm working with, or I'm writing an outline or a screenplay for a studio, or I'm writing a script for like a writer's room that I'm in. And so there's a process that I have to write for them because I'm getting paid to do that. So I follow those different steps. Um, but if I'm writing for myself, I always, I'm always reading a book while I'm writing. I always have to do do those. I'm still that kid that still does that at the same time. So that's the first thing because I want to be reading something to be inspired while I'm writing. And so because so much of my job is, I really my job is it's I treat it like a nine to five because I get up and I sit at my desk like a job and I'm writing. So when I'm writing on my own, I freestyle. That's not the best advice, but because so much of my job is structured, with like I gotta turn these pages in to this producer and get the notes and do and rewrite it and title it this, like it's so structured that when I'm writing, like I'm writing a pilot now on my own. I'm just I write one scene a day and I'm just free flowing. I don't do no outline, I don't do no beat sheet, I don't do anything. Because like I my my my mind needs that like release to just write on my own, you know. Um that uh I just, you know, and I just I need that loose level way to write. So I do both, right? But my process really, really is when I'm not when I'm writing on a show, it's very much like B sheet outline script. When I'm writing on my own, it's B sheet in my head and then write on my own, you know. Um and um I'm very much a like, I like to base my writing on real life people. So all my friends know that they're in my stuff. I try to like do things off real people, and so I always have like a free, like a person that I'm sort of basing things off in my mind.

SPEAKER_11 1:03:52

Okay, that is so awesome. That is so awesome. Thank you for sharing that. You're welcome. Sometimes I feel like I get I get caught in, like I'm a very what's my inciting incident, what's my first plot point, what's what's my adjustment period kind of person, but then sometimes I feel like that's hindering and it and it gets in my way.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:09

To to that point, like I I will say that I am very much a like like the script that I'm writing now, I'm writing it just like freestyling. Every 15 pages or so, I do have a huge turning point. Right? Like, I do I do think of it, I do my brain is gonna naturally be thinking in terms of like markers, whether I have them in like a very structured form, like complication, inciting incident, climax, midpoint, whether I have it like that, my brain still thinks in terms of like I do know every 15 minutes or so, right? If I have a lot of talkie scenes, somebody I get shot. You know what I'm saying? Like you know, like you gotta do something like that. Get brutal, man. You I know, I know, I'm the worst. I'm the worst, but I do um, and I will say this though, like I do find like I do find a like a lot of writers, like I like a lot of dialogue too. And you all you all have to really put yourselves in the mind of actors. Like when you're writing your scripts, think about if an actor would get your script and will be in front of their mirror, like going off, right? Because a lot of times I think we get caught up in like the in our world as a writer, but if an actor read your script, would they have enough things to say? Would they be feeling like they got a meal? Would they feel like they have enough things to do? You know, like do a pass on your script as a writer, and then do your pass, do a pass like actors are so selfish, right? I um my bad to all the actors out here. I ain't I didn't mean that. I take that back. I'm just better. We're all selfish people. Look at the case. I mean it in the best way possible, but actors are just like looking at their lines, right? So go through your script as one character and look at that character and be like, is this character going like if I sent this character. Like I I I write knowing that actors are gonna say these lines. So I look at my script and say, is this character if I sent this character, if I sent this script to Nature Notting and Nisi Nash, is Nature gonna feel like Nisi Nash got more lines than her?

SPEAKER_12 1:06:16

That's good.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:17

You know, I've I literally have to think like that because I have I have gotten that discussion. This girl got more lines than me. Oh, I've dealt with that on many a show.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:26

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:26

And and now I had to think about it. Now y'all have to believe that some y'all have to believe that these actors are gonna read y'all script. These actors that y'all got in mind for y'all roles, y'all gotta believe if y'all send them a script, what they're gonna say about it.

SPEAKER_13 1:06:38

Yeah, that's real good advice. Oh, that's really good advice. I never thought about that reading it as the actor and never really. I'm just trying to get the story out, but also realizing that it's a personal aspect to it as well.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:52

Yeah, love that.

SPEAKER_13 1:06:53

I love that. Ashley, you're done. That was your question.

SPEAKER_11 1:06:57

All right, yes, ma'am. Thank y'all so much.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:00

Thank you.

SPEAKER_13 1:07:00

All right, have Ebony.

unknown 1:07:03

Hey Ebony.

SPEAKER_07 1:07:04

Hello, everybody. Hey Michelle. Hey y'all. Um hello Ben. Thank you for being here with us tonight. Um my question is around um running a writer's room. So I have uh a series of my own that I've been uh working on independently and uh digital series. So each episode is about 10 minutes. Um I wrote the whole first season myself and uh with some of the younger filmmakers and people who I had work on the show. I'm in Philly. Um they all have come to me separately, different times and things like that. Like, you know, are are we doing the writers' room for like, you know, season two and whatever's next? And I'm like, yeah, that would be great, you know. Um I'm like, you know, I'm happy to do that, but um I haven't done it before. I'm used to being a solo writer. And so my question is like, um, uh, what advice, what books, what things would you um suggest uh for somebody making that transition from writing, I'm used to writing by myself to now I'll be in a position to run a writer's room?

SPEAKER_00 1:08:06

Um, I guess I'm trying to think of books. Um I think there's a book, uh Nicole Levy has a book. I forget, I think it's called Inside the Writer's Room. I think she has a really good book to check out, right? Um however, I mean I guess the advice that I would give you is uh have some snacks for your writers. That's first and foremost. Have some snacks, not some like snacks that put you to sleep, but like some like healthy snacks. Um and I would say, you know, just set the tone for your room and you know uh you know, set a space where where people can sort of talk about ideas, like have some goals you want to accomplish. How long do you do would you do you think you'd want to run your room? A few months. A few months, okay. Okay. I mean, look, my approach is this. I I I took two weeks to just blue sky, just sort of just like like just kind of talk about ideas. Like post, you can pose a question, what have y'all always what have you always wanted to see on television? Or like what big ideas do you have? Like this, this is what I did. I had a stack of note cards, and I just told everybody, don't think about this show, just give me interesting ideas. And some people would something this I remember one girl in my boomerang writers room. I just said, I was like, just give me some what ifs. I had this one girl say, What if there was a stripper, like a woke stripper? She was a stripper. This will be a boomerang. She was a stripper, but she had like political messages over body. So I wrote that down. And then this one guy, he told me about how he got divorced, he got married when he was 21 and got divorced when he was 23. I wrote that down. I just told people, just tell me interesting shit, right? And we just did that for like two weeks. And so I had a stack of note cards, and then I put all those note cards on a wall, so I called that my wall of ideas. Just big, big old ideas. They didn't necessarily relate to the show, but it was just a wall, and it was just like crazy shit. Like, like, what if uh we bought this on Instagram too? Like, we we were like, what if we bought like a uh a digital network and we only had um uh fantasy anime black with black people in it? It's just like random stuff, right? And so we did that, so we so that was my wall of ideas. So whenever we got stuck on something, I would look at the wall of ideas, and sometimes we'd be like, Oh, what about that, right? And then we would do okay, what are the big things we want to see in the series? So I do episodes one through eight with all the character one through eight, and then all the characters' names, and then all the big things that each character is gonna do in every episode. The big thing, like the big things, like this characters get pregnant, this character gets pregnant in episode. We know that this we know we want this character to get pregnant in episode six. We know we want this character's um uh dad to come back in episode three. We know we want this character to go to Hawaii in episode two, and so we write the big things that we know how to do. We know that in the last episode, these two characters break up. So we put that on one one, right? And then, and so now that we know the big and once we fill in all the big things, now we just take now, now let's start at episode one. Now, what happens in episode one? You see what I'm saying? Okay, so we kind of do a big wall of ideas, then we do the big macro things, and then we take it to the micro, you know, that's kind of that's in essence how I run a room, you know, because there are things that you know you want to do, like on a big and that's how we did insecure. Like we knew Easton was gonna sleep with Daniel in episode six. We knew that Molly was gonna have that conversation with the guy about sleeping with another guy in this episode, right? And then once we know the big things, now we gotta go in. Now we just take now we're gonna spend a week on episode one, and then we do everything in episode one, and then next week it's episode two, next week is episode three, and so we can look at this wall and say, we know that these we know that these core things are happening in episode one, but we don't know everything, we don't know everything. Like, let me like the Coachella episode for Insecure, right? We put that on a board early. We know that all the girls are going to Coach, we wrote Coachella, Coachella, Coachella, Coachella, Coachella. That's all we wrote. And then when we got to episode seven, we were like, okay, now what the fuck happens at Coachella, you know? But we that that was such a fun week coming up the Coachella. I mean, I drew a diagram on the board. We were like, Well, what and y'all noticed on that episode, having fun, yeah. Coachella told us no that we couldn't film at Coachella. So if y'all noticed in the episode, we never shoot the stage. So we had to come up with the reason why the girls never actually saw the stage, they get kicked out of Coachella. You see what I'm saying? So it's like, and but we didn't, we didn't, we didn't know that they were, yeah, it's one of the one, yeah. We one of my favorites too. And I was the only writer that had been to Coachella, so I had to tell them all my business, like, yes, I did Molly at Coachella, yeah. Oh my god. So amazing. And so, yeah, we so like so. That's the so it's like you you start almost with the high-level view of the episode, and as the weeks go on, you get more granular and get more specific, right? As opposed to, I think I I wouldn't start specific. I I would start with the big view, and then as the closer you get to like filming or or finishing, or the closer you get to writing the script, the more specific you get, you know. And I guess to my advice, again, just make let everybody have a voice. But you know, as a showrunner, I would say, like, if you know, like it's your sort of job to like steer the conversation where you want it to go. And whenever the conversation gets stale or it feels like it's not going in the right direction, I would say you always be the one to ask the question. But like, let me ask let me let me ask y'all this. Okay, you know, you can always do that, you know. I hope that's helpful.

SPEAKER_07 1:14:38

Yes, it is. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:40

You're welcome.

SPEAKER_12 1:14:41

Thank you, Ebony. Thank you, Simone.

SPEAKER_14 1:14:49

Hello. Hi, Ben. How are you?

SPEAKER_00 1:14:55

I'm great. How are you doing?

Writer’s Block And Staying Inspired

SPEAKER_14 1:14:57

Good. Um, I see that your last name is Joan, like me. So yeah, like we're related. So hey cousin. Hey. Um, so how do you stay like encouraged like during like writer's blocks and stuff? Or like what do you do, or do you get writer's block?

SPEAKER_00 1:15:16

Like all the time. I mean, I do get writer's block. Um, you know, I just I don't if I'm not feeling it, I'm not feeling it. Right. However, I I just try to give myself grace. And if I'm not feeling, I'm not feeling it. But I also just try to, I work on multiple projects all the time. And if I'm not feeling one, I'll do another one, you know. But I'll set myself like, even if it's just a small goal to write one scene, I'll do that. Or if it's if it's a goal to write one paragraph on a series document or overview, I'll just do that, right? Small writing is better than no writing, you know? Like, even if I'm just sort of brainstorming, but like you gotta also think about it like this like doing something every day, even if it's just like reading variety, you know, like a lot of times, like it's it's just about like keeping yourself engaged in this work that we do, you know. Like, like I believe in writer's block, but I also don't believe in writer's block because I think a lot of times we just don't feel inspired, you know. I would just say, like, just take a step back and put the pen down. Don't worry about it. Like, go and read, like, you know, go and read, go and watch an interview with with Ryan Kugler and listen to him talk about his work or go and like, you know, watch some violent, you know, you know, Violet Davis always going in on something. Go listen to her, you know, go listen to um um Tessa Thompson talk about her wardrobe, you know what I'm saying? Like stay in the business, but like, you know, I'm I'm a huge I like I I listen, I I love that the Hollywood round Hollywood Reporter roundtables on YouTube, you know. Like I consider that writing. You know, I consider that stuff like I'm not I like I still consider that stuff work because it's kind of like that it helps me to hear. I go I go watch a Donald Glover interview. You know, like I take this pressure off myself that I need to be writing every day, or I gotta be putting pen to paper. But a part of what we're doing, like I want, I want, I want to always make sure I'm I'm staying in love with this, you know, and I'm and I'm being inspired by people who inspire me, like Donald Glover. I have watched everything, even though I work with Ethan, I know that girl, I know her dirty jaws, and she ain't shit. No, I love her. I watch every single interview Issa Ray does. And I know I I she I can text her and call her right now, but I still am a fan of hers. And I still watch every interview she does because I'm inspired, you know? And so I would encourage you just to do that kind of stuff and look at that as your education and as your like writer, as your process, you know.

SPEAKER_14 1:18:01

And you mentioned that you work on several projects at a time. I know me, my brain will explode, but like, what's the most you've ever worked on at a time? Or like how do you balance everything?

SPEAKER_00 1:18:15

I I mean, I I I got like eight I'm doing right now. They're all in various stages of different and I'll I I or I work on them by order of part of like it's prioritization for me. Which one, which one is closer to a check?

SPEAKER_05 1:18:31

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:34

Honestly, that's really what it is. Like, which one is is the closest to a finish line? You know, which one is which one is which one do I see the lightest, the lighter of the day to, you know, like which one, you know, which one it requires me to submit something that's close, you know. Um, but they all could be, right? And but which one do I, I mean, yes, which one do I feel pass? I feel passionate about all of them, but which one do I really am I taking seriously that's gonna like change my life? Okay, thank you so much. Let me let me tell you all this. You all are just one, one job can change your life. Hallelujah. One job, one script can change your life. And I write Brianna, one job can change your life. You know, you're just one job away, you're just one script away, you're just one project away, you just one digital series away.

SPEAKER_14 1:19:30

You really are yeah, thank you so much, Ben. It was really nice meeting you.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:35

Nice meeting you.

SPEAKER_13 1:19:36

All right, all right, Charlene.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:40

Thank you. Thank you so much, Michelle, of course, and thank you, Ben, for everything you do so far. Oh, excuse me. Um, I have probably a few questions. I'll try to keep them very brief.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:56

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:56

Is have you ever been tempted to write features? Why, why not? What what keeps you in TV? Um, you worked on underground. How did you keep how did you stay well while writing that? And then I have a toddler and I think he got me sick. So I was over here trying to um trying to survive. And then um the third, for folks who are actually just those two. I was gonna ask something about screenwriting, but I think you answered it earlier.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:31

Yeah, so I do I do write features now, and I actually getting into features was the most difficult thing. Um, but I got hired by Viola Davis's production company to write a feature, and that became my first feature that I wrote. Getting into features is hard because you have to have a feature to get in features, and I had never written a feature on my own, and so I luckily got hired to write that feature. So I'm in features now, I'm also directing features. Um, it's a lot of people don't make that transition just because you gotta either just sit down and bite the bullet and write a feature on spec, and then that feature has to be good. But I would encourage everybody to do both. You gotta do both at this at this juncture. So you gotta have a portfolio. I know one of the questions that Michelle uh maybe asked me to talk about was like, what should be in your portfolio? And I think a uh comedy pilot should be in your portfolio, a drama pilot should be in your portfolio, maybe a digital, like a short should be in your portfolio, and maybe if you can get a feature in your portfolio, have a feature in your portfolio. So that means you can get a job writing a movie, writing a TV, staff on a TV show drama, or staff on a TV show comedy. And then underground, I mean, again, like me writing, like I was very clear in my career that I didn't because when I got on Insecure, I got a little afraid because I was writing on Insecure, I got I got offered to write on Dear White People for Netflix, and then I got I was getting all these half-hour job offers. But I consider myself a drama writer. Like on Insecure, I was not the funniest person in that room. I mean, you had Natasha Roswell, you had Issa Ray, you had Prentice Penny, you had Amy Anniobi, all those in those rooms. Now, I was the funniest person in the underground writers room, by the way. I mean, I remember I had a gay slave joke that Misha Green did not find funny at all, but I I did it, why not? But um, I I wanted right, y'all thought it's funny, right? But I want I consider myself a drama writer, and so I wanted to write on I wrote on Underground in between seasons one and two of Insecure, but I wanted to write on an underground just so I can let the industry know that I can do both. And a lot of people don't do both. Like I do drama and I do comedy. Um, and I wanted to learn, I wanted to write on insecure so I can learn on apprentice, so I can know how to run a comedy room, you know. Um, but again, it's seeking out those opportunities that stretch me as a writer, you know. And I'm I was not well after Underground, and Underground was the toughest job I've ever had, but rightfully so, because the show reflected that on screen. Because I mean, I learned so much about myself right on that show. I learned so much about our history. We have not even scratched the surface of what slavery was. I mean, we have not even scratched the surface. That's and that's that's all I'll say. It's just it's oh my god, I can't even get into it.

SPEAKER_13 1:23:27

Yeah, I think it's very interesting that with all your work that you had, when it was time to write for Viola, you had to like again show yourself. But TV and features are two different worlds. I'm two different worlds, girl. And I love it because I can't shut up. So it's just like a never-ending story. And I feel like when you write shorts and features, it's just like that's it. Like it just closes, like, where is it? So, but it is such a different world. And like you said, I do, you know, it's so important that you have that portfolio so you can be very, especially in this time of days, diverse based off of what people actually need um for their projects. Love that. All right, we have Kayla.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:11

Michelle, thank you again for having me in this course. Of course. Thank you for your time. Uh I have two questions. Okay. Uh, first, I am working on a show. It's very personal to me about my home from Louisiana. And I have not worked in a writer's room, but I'm curious to find out how to work with a showrunner to develop the show. I already have the outline and the first two episodes written. So I'm just trying to figure out what are what are the best means to get with someone who can help you develop your show to get it in front of the people that would pick up the show. And my second question is um, how can you get into the the writer's room of a show that's already in development or a show that's on its second or third season? Right, right.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:08

Uh I the I actually have an answer for both your questions. Do you have representation? Because we haven't talked about managers and agents.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:15

I do not have representation. I did submit to some, but I believe they are very busy and haven't gotten back to us.

Managers Agents And Getting Staffed

SPEAKER_00 1:25:22

Okay, all right. Well, let's talk about it. This is a bit this is a big discussion. Well, I mean, it's an important discussion. So representation. Um, you have to have it. Um, you know, uh, that's your first line of defense, right? Um, and everybody should be seeking. If you're a writer, an actor, if you're a writer, you definitely should be seeking representation. The first step in representation is to find a manager, you know. A manager is the first step in finding representation. How do you find a manager? By hook a crook, right? On send somebody a DM, reach out to your friends, tell everybody that you know, send every email, exhaust every resource, tell your mother's next door neighbor, just tell everybody from henceforth that you're looking for a literary manager. The good thing about managers is that you can start small, right? You can get a manager who represents talent. You can find you a manager. Everybody on the face of this earth needs a manager. You know, like I tell this to my DJ friends, I tell this to my actor friends, my writer friends, director friends, my influencer friends. Anybody who's in a creative space needs a manager. And managers, you can get a small manager, a big manager, but you need a manager. So managers are great because managers, managers serve a purpose where they can help you with your creativity. They can give you feedback on your scripts, they can help you with your Instagram account, they can help you with your branding. Like a manager is supposed to be managing all aspects of your career, right? And a manager should and will have connections to get you an agent. A lot of times, agents won't get you if you don't have a manager. Managers connect you to agents. Now, there are some there are some spaces where if you make a short film and it gets into like ABFF or you you get a short film into a film festival, an agent will spot you that way. But the majority of the time that you get an agent is because a manager submits you to an agency, you know, and as a black creative in this town, you gotta be repped in one of the big agencies. You just have to. So whenever you get to a place where you are ready to get an agent, CAA, WME, UTA, ICM, IAG, you gotta try to get in one of the big players, right? If you really want to be a major player in the entertainment industry, that's a hard truth, but it's sort of what it what the truth is, right? However, your manager can be a local manager. You can get a manager in Atlanta, a manager in whatever city you're in, right? But your your goal with that manager is that hey, I want you to be my manager, help manage my career. Career, but I need you to help me get an agent. You can start small with an agent, but eventually you want to get an agent with one of the big major players, right? And managers can then help you get in front of producers, help you get in front of a if you need a showrunner attached to your project. Obviously, your project has to be one that's worthwhile for a showrunner to sort of help you, but I think it all starts with representation, right? Because I look at it this way: like I said before, you need as many people pushing the rock up the hill as possible, right? And I think a manager is a great way to sort of do that, you know. Um, managers need you in front of production companies. A lot of times, production companies will take a chance on new voices, they will sort of say, Hey, you have a digital series. I love this, this is fantastic. Let me help you with this, let me help you. I can give you$10,000 to shoot a pilot presentation or to shoot a teaser trailer, and then we can take it over to Amazon, we can take it over to Netflix, we can take it over to Peacock, you know. But I think like what these production companies would be looking for is that you've done some initiative or you've done, you've taken the initiative to get yourself some type of attention, you've attracted some type of attention with your work to get the attention of some of a manager, at the very least, a manager, right? And I think that can be an indication of where you are in your level of writing, level of your career abilities, right? Because there are managers all over the place, you know. Um, um they're all over Instagram, they're all over TikTok. Like I'm I'm sure you can find one, but I think that should be everybody's goal if you do not have representation. Operation, find a manager, you know. Managers will take on new talent. Managers are always taking new talent, you know. Um, and I think that's sort of a key here, you know. And then again, then that your ask for your manager would be can you help me get an agent? And then you get staffed on a TV show. Then you get staffed on a show that's already run up and running, you know. And then you like you you should be very clear of the the writing that you have in your portfolio. If you want to go write on Black Mirror, you should have a sample in your portfolio that's kind of like Black Mirror or that has that kind of fantasy, uh subversive type of work. You know what I mean? Um, it should kind of all make sense, you know. I think that is sort of the how how I would look at it, you know, and and look, like there's a lot of ways to, you know, like self self-promotion is definitely a thing, you know, self-promotion and drawing attention to yourself via your social media, like we gotta use everything at our disposal nowadays. You know, I was when I shot my I wrote and directed the film Black Spartans, and you know, it's sad but true, but there is a certain like numbers, numerical score that actors all have now that's based on their social media following, their IMDB score. It's crazy, but like we look at it. I mean, I I hate to do it, but I don't really look at it. But people like there are financiers that look at that, they won't finance my film unless I have certain actors that have this type of number that is a a byproduct of their social media following and their engagement and all this, like everybody's looking at all that nowadays. So to act like that stuff doesn't matter, you'll be fooling yourself, you know. So I hope that helps. Okay, everybody smile, everybody just smile.

Why Shows Get Canceled Plus Books

SPEAKER_09 1:31:42

Hey girl, hey, hello, hello. Um, two questions. One, do you have any good, because you said you're an avid reader, do you have any good book recommendations for uh writers or any multi-hyphenated people in the um group? And two, um as a fan of most of all of your shows, actually is uh insecure, underground, especially underground and um boomerang, not boomerang, but boomerang and um hey Lovecraft. Oh my gosh, to know to feel like they could have lasted as long way longer than what they do, and to hear constantly that us that black shows they find it hard to market them.

SPEAKER_04 1:32:31

Yes.

SPEAKER_09 1:32:32

So how does it work? I've always wondered how does that work, even though if the show is a hit, it can still be on the chopping block to get canceled, even though it's a hit.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:44

Um it's not hard to market the shows. Usually when a show gets canceled, it's for a few reasons. Um it was I hate to say it this way, but oftentimes if a show gets canceled early, that means it was a nightmare behind the scenes. You know, and that's just the honest truth. Like I'm not trying to throw Lovecraft for any any show under the bus, but if a show doesn't get constantly get renewed, it's because they're having a very difficult time with something behind the scenes. That could be actors, there could be they may be having trouble making deals. There's some kind of trouble behind the scenes that make it un they make it very difficult for the show to continue, right? There could be some some like challenges just with the creative direction of the show. There could be some licensing, there could be some issues that we aren't privy to that can prevent because otherwise, you know, these networks have no problem with marketing, they have no problem with budgets. Like there was a there was rumors, there was talks that like underground was too expensive. No, it's not. That's not expensive at all, you know. Like there was just there could be things going on behind the scenes that we just have no clue about. I had no clue about what was going on behind the scenes with Underground, you know. It could be create distance with the showrunner, it could be actors who just don't want to be on the show. Like I was on one show where the lead actress just decided she didn't want to be on the show anymore, and there's nothing we could have done about, you know, so oftentimes it's just it's just behind the scenes, and I don't necessarily want to call it drama, like you you would be surprised at just like the amount, like sometimes the there's a regime change at the network, and the network, the new executives that come in, they just don't want to continue the show. You know, they they didn't buy the show, they don't want to continue working on the show, and they just decided to cancel the show, you know. So I don't I don't always like sometimes I I can I can almost safely say that it's never really about a black and white issue or like a oh, we don't know how to market. These these networks are highly skilled at everything, you know, and if they don't know how to do so, then they know how to hire out outside agencies to do so. And there's so many, there's so many um mechanisms behind the scenes of a TV show from marketing to licensing to like uh programming. I mean, and also there's sometimes like contractual things that they like if it there's sometimes an actor. So I was on one show that we found out that an actor only signed a one-year contract because they were holding out to do a Steven Spielberg movie, but normally you don't let an actor sign a one-year contract because of this thing, like it's just it you couldn't, you could never know. Um, but yeah, so I think that that's sort of what it is. And also, like, we can't like there's always these narratives about the one thing, but one thing I do agree, one thing I think you're hinting at is sometimes black shows they get this narrative wrapped up in them, which is unfortunate for us as I because like these black shows do get a narrative that our shows are hard to market, or they they don't travel overseas, or that which you know, like which is unfortunate because black shows tend to get labeled a lot of things, you know. Um, and and and it's a they're all false, they're all falsehoods, but we have to fight against these things, you know. Exactly. They're all lies that they tell, you know, but they're all just excuses because they just sometimes don't want to admit that they just can't relate to our stories. I'd rather them say that, but they don't say that, you know, they don't like they don't understand the cultural impact that our shows have, and so they just don't get it, you know. And again, that is I said that at the beginning of the conversation, like they don't they don't, that's why we have to always the same fight I fought at the beginning of my career is the same one I'm fighting now, because I don't sit when I go to pitch shows, I'm never rarely sitting across people who look like me. So there's a lot of extra work and a lot of extra um perseverance that I have to have to do the work that we do, um, knowing that we're up against people that don't understand us culturally, right? And how do we keep going in spite of all of that? It's just what we have to do, you know.

SPEAKER_09 1:37:12

And the book recommendations.

SPEAKER_00 1:37:14

Oh, yeah. Have you read Save the Cat?

SPEAKER_09 1:37:17

I heard the Save the Cat.

SPEAKER_00 1:37:19

I always just read, I mean, I I love Save the Cat. I just think it's such a good book about just like storytelling in general. I read it like every year, it's just it's just such a good reminder that stories are so universal in your approach to stories. Like, even in even though save the cat is for movies, I just love it. I just love the way it talks about your inciting incident and your climax and your all is lost moment. Like, I would just read that every year. Um, The Hero's Journey is a good book to always read, too. Uh, and I would just always say, like, just again, like, find you a good novel to read as much as you can. Like, I just find that like always having like some uh a fiction book to just dive yourself into, and you'll be amazed at how that shows up in your writing, you know. Okay, thank you. You're welcome.

SPEAKER_13 1:38:17

All right, who's next? My little screen went away. Is that what my screen went away?

Authenticity Collaboration And Selling Yourself

SPEAKER_10 1:38:31

Can you hear me? Yeah, yeah. Sorry if I'm a little dark, I'm outside, but thank you so much for letting me uh join this, and thank you to you, uh Corey, for just coming together and giving us all this knowledge. Um I'm an actress myself, but I want to actually put my hands on different things because they say, you know, do multiple things. Do uh I get acts, do I write and things like that? And I have like ideas and things like that. But I just wanted to know, like, and I don't know if I missed this in the beginning, but who inspires you? I know you said one of uh Easter Ray is one of yours, but who do you get your inspiration from and who do you admire in the industry? Um, and then also one of the young ladies, ladies, did touch on the subject of uh canceled shows and things like that. And I just wanted to know like, what is the conversation? Like, is there ever any conversation about uh how I don't know, uh maybe us as our color can like get together and like put our own shows out there or someone can like pick up the network because Underground was really good and I was disappointed that it got uh canceled, but I do understand what you said behind the scenes.

SPEAKER_00 1:39:59

Yeah, I mean, um wait, what's the first part of your question again? I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_10 1:40:04

Uh who who inspires you?

SPEAKER_00 1:40:06

Oh, who inspires me? Um man, I'm inspi- I mean, I'm inspired by a lot of things, honestly. You know, I'm really, I mean, I'm really inspired by I'm very inspired by Shonda rhymes. Um very inspired by like Issa, very inspired by Donald Glover. Um I'm just I mean I'm really just I'm really, really, I'm inspired by everybody that just keeps going. You know, I'm to be honest with you, like my my goal is to just like my goal is to just be prolific, you know. Like I I try not to get caught up on like, oh, I want to get this show picked up and I want to get that show picked up. Like I just kind of like if if one doesn't go, I just keep going. Like if one doesn't get picked up, I just make another one. You know, if this idea doesn't work, I just make another one. If this movie doesn't go, I just like I just I realize in my career, like I'm just I'm not so attached to one individual project. And I would encourage you all to kind of do the same. Like, yes, like pour your heart and soul to this project, but I think the goal is to just be like like I love a I love a David E. Kelly, I love a Greg Burlante, like those guys are just prolific, like they're just turning out shows every single year, they're just writing on every single year. Like it just pours out of them, you know. Like, I'm inspired really by that. Like, like the great thing about being a writer is that I can do this till I'm 70, 80 years old, you know, and I just want to be like just turning them out, like and and doing this teaching. Like, I just want to be that's how I want to impart what I know, what I've learned in Hollywood, just so I can like teach everybody else so we can just be turning out these shows over and over and over and just be a prolific, like Ryan Murphy. Prolific. They just do it, like, and at a certain point it becomes just so natural and easy that you can just kind of do it. I think that's why now I just like I quit outlining because I'm just like, let me just get this out, you know, just so I can get on to the next one, you know. Um, I will say this though. Um one of the things that I have learned to do less of is to feel like I'm in competition with people.

unknown 1:42:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:42:22

And I I I want to impart that to you all because like there were times where like, and I I was I was guilty of it. I'm a natural competitive person, but there was there was a time where like I just sort of felt like, oh, let me, you know, let me get my show picked up and this and that, and I I may have lost the joy in my career. But uh you don't want to do that. You don't want to have to feel like you're in competition with each other to get a show picked up or get a movie made or get your series up or get a showrunner, this and that. Like, and and this this answers your question about how we can get our stories out there. We get our stories out there by collectively all coming together and helping each other and sharing information and sharing your series document and showing us help telling somebody else how you got their got your pitch in front of somebody else, right? Like, you know, like like I have a friend who was a TV writer, but he's also a novelist. And he he always tells me in the book world, there is like they don't they're not in competition with each other. Like they're such a community, and I just find that, and I'm not suggesting that there's a lot of competition in this industry, although there is a smidge of it, but I like to I like to believe that that that a lot of us are trying to nowadays find the joy in our careers and and trying to leave that competition side of the business elsewhere, especially as black folks, right? Because we don't have the luxury to be competing with one another only because like we do stand stronger when we're standing strong together. And hell, we could all pool our money together and make some digital series or get a streamer on our own or something like that, or even just you know, like rally our voices when a show like Underground gets canceled and we all get on the Zoom to say we want a show together. Like, like it's this it's this idea that we relinquish this idea that we're competing with one another, but that we're fighting against forces that don't look like us that we can all band together to do stuff, you know. So, so I would just encourage you guys to like drop the competitive nature of this industry and embrace the joy and the love and the fun of this, you know, because that's what it, man, being in a writer's room, it is so much fun. Oh my gosh. I mean, they give us, they buy our lunch every day, and I order the most expensive thing on the menu, you know, and we just sit around and just like talk shit and like crack on each other and talk about our personal like they like the girls, the the ladies are insecure. They just they tell they tell me what text to send my boyfriends, you know what I'm saying? Like that's what we did all day, you know, and getting paid, and I'm getting paid, right? You know, I'm gonna tell you this really quick story. I saw I saw I saw the show to HBO uh called bros, which was about me and my two brothers, like they're straight and like and like we all like we don't give a shit. We all talk shit about each other and like dah dah da. So I actually had a pilot presentation for my show, and we sent it to HBO. Anthony Hemway directed it, and we heard the HBO had passed. And but they said they want to have a meeting with me because they just sort of liked it, but they passed on the show. So I went to the meeting like very like not pressed, like I didn't care. So I was like, whatever, whatever. So I get into the meeting, and and we just talking, I was just they were like, So what's you been up to? I was like, Yeah, I just broke up, I just got out of a relationship, and I'm now on Tinder, but I hate Tinder because there's no black dudes on Tinder. And I pulled out my phone, I was like, Look, y'all want to let's go through my Tinder. So me and the eight, the two HBO executives were going through my Tinder in the meeting, and I'm like, What y'all think about him? They're like, No, but we're just doing this, right? We did this for 20 minutes, and I they were like, and then I got a match, and so they helped me, the HBO executives helped me send them send a message. This is the meeting. I leave the meeting before I get to the elevator. My agent calls me and tells me they want to buy my show. You know, that just goes to show you there's no there's nothing that's gonna be better than the authentic version of me. You know, there's nothing that's gonna sell more than you just being you, they were like, we don't know, but whatever show you selling, we're buying. You know what I'm saying? Like, and I tell that example that like they're buying your script, but they're buying if you're able to convey to them that you're somebody that they want to work with. Like, if you if you got the balls to go on the meeting and do that, they're gonna buy, and they bought my show. And I developed, I mean, so I had that they they had my show in development and insecure in development. I mean, I would have I would have bought insecure. I mean, they bought my show, we developed, they they decided to pass on it. I was also like 32 when I wasn't ready for an HBO show, but I I sold the show to HBO, you know, because I was going through my Tinder profile in the meeting with them because I didn't I didn't give a shit, you know. Um I don't know if I advise, I don't know if I do that today, but it just goes to show you that there's so much fun to having this, right? You know, when you do the work and you can you can have the fun, like we get into this industry, we're not in corporate America, right? You can be yourself, right? And so that's what I encourage all you to do, you know.

Pitch Platforms And Working Outside LA

SPEAKER_13 1:47:35

All right, somebody can tell me who's next. I don't know why my zoom is frozen. Who's next?

SPEAKER_08 1:47:43

Hey Tatiana, hey Michelle, um thank you for bringing us all together. Thank you, Ben Cory, for your time uh tonight. Um, super excited. Um, my question is about well, first of all, you answered my second question, so thank you for that as far as like pitching yourself and being authentic. So I took all those notes. So thank you. So my second question was what's your opinion on kind of like the different pay-to-play platforms as far as like pitching your projects, like a stage 32 or like a blacklist, like because I'm outside of the LA area, I'm actually in the South, like you. Um, so looking for like different avenues to kind of pitch myself since I'm not in a major market. So just wanted to get your thoughts on like those platforms.

SPEAKER_00 1:48:33

I like though, especially I love the blacklist. Okay. I do love the blacklist. I do like stay, I do like Stage 32. I do like those, but I like and I like I like it when people like don't just leave it at that, though. Like when you take those and like keep doing it until you get a high score. And then when you get a high score, promote the hell of the fact that you got a high score, you know? Like use that to be like, hey, manager, I got a nine on the blacklist, you know. Um because they do, they will email it out, but like it's just it's it's one of those things where like it becomes a feather in your hat, right? And I think that that that's a good that's a good thing. And like if you get a good score on the blacklist, like enter that script everywhere, enter it into every contest, enter it into every opportunity you can. Enter into the Nichols Fellowship. You know, shoot for the stars, like enter into every if you're if you're remote, enter it into everything that you can, enter it into the fellowship. Like, y'all should definitely be applying to the ABC Fellowship, the Warner Brothers Fellowship, Riders on the Verge, the Nickelodeon Fellowship. Apply to all these different things. And don't worry about your job or you got a move, like, don't worry about all of them. Just apply to these programs, you know. Um, and so but I do I do think those, especially the black, because I do think those things are worthwhile, you know. Um, and give yourself like just you know, try to try to come out to one of the major markets once a quarter and just take some meetings. you know like and it just hit people up on Instagram be like hey can we can I can we grab coffee you know like I think that there's like there's a there's a like uh uh I don't know it's kind of like a uh there's a privilege that you can take with like owning the space that you belong in this industry and that you're a part of it right and that if you have great material you gotta just start giving it out to people you know and so like the fact that you like are trying to put your to work in those spaces you know uh it definitely deserves to like be out here with networking with people and putting it into those programs but I think those places are good definitely good places I definitely recommend the black list okay I got you thank you all right who's next better I have a question random question all right so do y'all be reading our tweets and our Instagram posts and then go behind the scenes and start changing the stories because if so I need to be a little bit more proactive I just want to know is it any like a change of the story when you guys are writing and for the next season is that a part of the research process as well to see and do you guys change anything based off of that when you're in the right of not at all not at all not at all not at all because like we're so far ahead yeah yeah we're so far ahead like if there like if you guys are watching something and you're tweeting about it you know I mean I I will say that um for on insecure in particular I I I do remember like us being surprised at like how much like people how how vehemently people were reacting to Molly's life decisions in a way that we knew that like we had something like it was validation for us right that we were like like you gotta understand on insecure on first after the first season we didn't necessarily know that our like we didn't necessarily know what our sweet spot was on the show but one once once like people started tweeting and like discussions and articles started being written we knew that like the these characters undergoing like modern day trials and tribulations and dating and in their careers like us us throwing them into the like lion's den of like certain situations in dating and in and and and in work was our sort of sweet spot then we started to write like more of that if you will you know like I remember I remember like uh after insecure first season air I I came back home to Memphis and I went to like a Christmas party and I walked in it was like a young professional young people black people party and I walked into the party and they were like vehemently debating insecure and they were like he wrote the show and they like all like started like making me give them answers and like they were just debating it and I it was like and I I took that back to the room and like we were just we and we just sort of knew that like we wanted to come up with more like you know that's how that's how we came up second season with the storyline about Molly and the pay inequality you know because we were like well what like let's let's what are some of the other challenges that black women are facing in the workplace you know so we kind of look we kind of took that as like validation that that's what people are responding to you know so we look at it that way but like um not necessarily like changing storylines but like get kind of giving the people what they want if you will because I don't necessarily know if the show knew that it was going to be about um I don't know if we knew it was going to be so relationship heavy because we thought we thought the show was gonna be be more about we got y'all like Issa's not the nonprofit she worked at but then we got tired of writing about that that's why she quit you know what I mean and people didn't really miss it but it was fun when it lasted but you know yeah it was all it was always it was good that we were tweeting so we could see like what people responding to all right I had to change my view we have two more questions then we're gonna wrap up okay and then um then let people figure out how to work with you because you you can work with this seriously I felt like this was such a like hard reach and I was like oh okay this can happen so I'll let him explain that as we get ready to close up uh Charlene Charlene you begin to answer the question yes about being outside of LA you mentioned going there or I imagine you maybe been talking about New York too maybe um going there once a quarter do you have any other advice uh for I'm between Atlanta and Chicago for folks who are outside of LA and New York yeah I mean I I would I would form writers groups wherever you are you know I would form writers group wherever you are I would like I would always like set up some kind of table read mechanism wherever you are I think that stuff goes a long way um you know um most of the managers and stuff and and representation is LA based I think you also have to ask yourself like if you want a job working on a TV show in a writer's room most of those jobs are going to be in Los Angeles right but I also think if you are trying to go to the film route that can be done from anywhere you know so it's it's sort of a you have to kind of be clear about what it is you're trying to do because television in writers rooms that's going to take you to LA right but also like digital stuff and then film stuff can be done from anywhere. You know um so that's kind of like when I made my decision to do television I knew I had to go to LA because that's kind of like we hadn't got to a point now where writers rooms are not in LA because they're still I mean I'm even trying to get some writers move to Atlanta. That's kind of that's still a hard sale because a lot of writers a lot of your writers are LA and they don't want to move to Atlanta and it it will be a little hard to staff all writers out of Atlanta because the the pool just isn't there. You know what I mean? Because I mean I don't want to have a room just with all writers who've never been in a room before you know but I mean it's a it's all a toss-up though you know but um but things are changing though things are definitely changing um but you know I guess I guess my other advice would be like I I would say representation is key though because a lot of what we do a lot of what I do now is over Zoom you know um and so I will say like trying to get representation and trying to get meetings and trying to see if you can just get meetings over Zoom would probably be the best way.

SPEAKER_03 1:57:12

Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 1:57:13

You're welcome uh Bri Hello Okay so I have a question in regards to sync licensing and music as a writer so my question is what inspires your sync choices when building a character and do you prefer original score and building as you go or do you already have in mind okay this song was high and I'm gonna write this scene around this song that I want to use and then the moot point to that would be uh when you're syncing it like as a writer are you thinking about budget too like is your budget affected by the musical choice?

SPEAKER_00 1:57:55

That's a good question. I'm a writer that writes I write songs in my script um not necessarily to use in the actual show but it's for the right it's for the reading experience of my script right okay so that's one thing so I don't necessarily I don't necessarily I have I actually have no intention of using those songs in the actual show. Maybe I do maybe I maybe I do but oftentimes it's just for the actual like I want you to be thinking of that song in your mind as you're reading my script right and for the when I and when it's time to do the actual show what I'm thinking about when I'm actually uh what they call needle drop needle dropping actual songs I actually try to go for songs that people haven't heard before because I think it makes you actually lean into the show a little bit more and those songs are also actually cheaper than songs that are popular. And then they also like you get a you know those artists are so excited and they end up doing a lot of publicity for your own show. And then um I'm very particular about the score on my shows just because like I don't want it to feel like too like too much like a television show. Because there's like a lot of like I don't like that I don't like that you know but I also allow there there's great music supervisors out here and I I I allow them to do their job because they're really really great at it you know but I definitely I definitely use like me I really insecure is a great example of that because insecure's music was very much a part of our show it was very much a second a third or fourth character in the show. And we use music tonally and emotionally it's a very very very important part of the show you know and it definitely like gave our show its unique sort of like voice if you will you know um and and like and I think it I don't necessarily think about it in terms of budget because I just think that you'll you'll have a music budget and you have to stick within it. Okay. And and if I'm being totally honest I would rather put the money on screen than in music because I always think that you can find good music for cheap yeah you know that's how I think about music. That's a great question.

Making Screenwriting A Real Career

SPEAKER_13 2:00:11

Okay thank you. You're welcome all right two questions before we wrap up one um is how as a screenwriter can you make this a successful career for yourself? I know sometimes we're writing our own stories to produce to get our names out but is it real success in um being a screenwriter as an independent uh filmmaker, independent screenwriter and then segue into um how we can work with you if people want to work with well I'm already working with you but if people want to work with you on um any projects and I know sometimes as screenwriters we're like okay can I write these scripts and actually sell them and make a living for them. And so just want you to kind of give a little bit of insight on that and what the prices could possibly be for people that want to write and sell or like royalties or points that come with it and then how they can work with you.

SPEAKER_00 2:01:06

Yeah absolutely so I mean I mean if this I mean look it's definitely 100% possible for anybody to be a screenwriter you know um I I think the the day and age that we live in now with technology being what it is I think anyone can promote their own services as a writer you know like making your own website just telling yourself you're a screenwriter promoting yourself as such right I think that there are lots of jobs out here. Again representation is very key to get into the system but there's nothing stopping any of you guys from like building your own portfolio marketing yourself as a screenwriter because what I have learned actually and this leads into my services like what I have learned is there are a lot of people who are just looking for writers you know who are looking for people to just write a treatment for them write a screenplay for them write a pilot for them you know like there are like we're in a day and age now that everybody understands the power of storytelling. And there are people who know they're not writers and they just want to find people who can write I get my I give them in my DMs all the time and I can't do them all you know and so I think that we're in this very very cultural kind of transformative shift where anybody can sort of be a writer these days you know I mean there's obvious steps it it takes to break into the industry which is via fellowships which is via programs which is via getting representation which is being hired by studios or being hired by networks but there's also an indie side to this which is sort of like marketing yourself as a writer for hire which I would encourage everybody to do you know um and I think that is also a unique thing that I've seen pop up in the last couple of years that I think a lot of people can take advantage of, you know, uh people you can just show people examples of your work and just get out there and start writing some work. I would also say like you know there's nothing stopping people from like you know filming a pilot presentation or making like a 10 minute you know sizzle reel of your work or just putting stuff out there like I think branding is key for people right now you know and like this is such a great time to be a writer like like I said like everybody understands the power of storytelling everybody everybody's trying to do what we do now but you guys have such a leg up because you're actually in the craft and you're studying the craft and we're gonna be the ones that they're gonna be looking to to tell stories. You know tell your story tell other stories and like I just think it's such a brilliant time to do what we're doing you know and you know one of the things that I am dedicated to is to giving back and to teaching other people what I know because y'all it it is we need storytellers of color. We need it we need people out there we need people on the front lines we need people to get over this sort of wall that that tells you that your story doesn't matter you know I do offer storyteller consulting services and it's for a very very low fee I charge$250. Very low very very very low fee and what I do is you know if you have a story treatment if you have a uh a a script you want me to read if you have a treatment you want me to read if you have a show if you just have an idea you want to run past me I what the what that$250 offers you is two official uh conversations with me one-on-one I've had conversations go an hour I had conversations go two hours but you get two official conversations with me but the way I work we'll probably end up talking four five six times it really doesn't matter to me but like for people that are really really serious and that$250 really just because just to make sure that you're serious for people that are really serious I definitely do not mind spending time with people on a one-on-one basis just to like get set you on the right path and like give you the notes that you need give you the time that you did that you deserve to tell your story and just to point you in the right direction whether that's like hey I think you should like make this a short film or I think you should hey I think you should make this a feature or I think you should write a series treatment for this or like hey I I want to I want to sit send this to my manager you know I'm I'm definitely willing to do that because like people did this for me you know and I think that we're in a day and age now again like where I just think that a lot of a lot of opportunities are kind of being I don't know there's just been a little misleading from what I've been seeing right now. But I mean I just want you guys to know that like black storytellers we we gotta tell our stories and we need it now more than ever. You know our stories matter and like I don't know I was just it it's a it's a calling of mine from my mother like we're both teachers and this is just sort of my way to like I don't know I just want to peep people people helped me to believe in myself when I was coming up right and I had been during the pandemic I was just trying to rack in my brain on how I can do that right so if y'all leave with anything for me today is like don't ever let anybody tell you that you're not talented that you're not brilliant that your stories don't matter I mean Brianna wants to shoot a whole new stormy weather and I can't wait to see it as an example. You know what I'm saying like that is what inspires me when I see people like you guys that like want to tell these like awesome kick ass stories like and and and I gotta say like I I I don't get to keep these gifts if I don't like give back and help other people I really don't I really really don't and I firmly believe that. So y'all can hit me up over Instagram or Michelle can give you my information you can give me my email address Michelle feel free and if y'all want to book a service like I'm I'm more than willing to do it. I do it by myself so just if I don't get back to you give me some time but I'll be more than willing to work with you guys and and again just to get set you on the right path with some professional expertise because I want to see you all win. Because when y'all win we all you know and that's that's my firm belief. So shout out to Michelle for putting on this such a wonderful event this was awesome.

How To Work With Ben Closing

SPEAKER_13 2:06:49

It was a highlight of my week oh thank you so much Ben for agreeing I had like I emailed you like mid like last year sometime but I think I don't know what email I used. Like let me get in his DM and get I'm glad you did let me get this right email but thank you so much for coming to speak for being so open and so pleasant I just I just love you so much. I cannot wait to give you a big hug virtual hug virtual hug so needed in the community when people are not gatekeeping when you can no we can't do that and just feel like you have someone that can lead you in the right direction and support you. And I just you know and again it all starts with the story you know if you don't have a good story is this more than likely going to sit on your hard drive and people. So I've been so appreciative of you coming in I've learned so many things for everybody in the group so I'm gonna give you a hand clap because I appreciate thank you thank you thank you guys thank you guys um and I'll make sure that guys I put in the community um Ben's email if you want to reach out to him but let them know what's your net your name on Instagram uh Ben the writer very simple B-E-N-T-H-E-W-R-T R Ben the writer Ben the writer so you can either hit him up on DM or wait till I post the email in the community but once again Ben I am so appreciative of you I can wait to work with you like I'm just like let's hurry and get this thing we're gonna do it we're gonna get it we must do it that'll be great I I love to do this and I love this work I just love what we do so much and shout out to you thank you for having me thank you thank you guys so much and until thank you guys have a good weekend bye bye guys see you everybody and that's a wrap all right if this has helped you think differently about your film do me a favor share this to another filmmaker who needs