ShowRunHer: Your Filmmaking Coach
This podcast is for filmmakers who are tired of guessing. I freestyle through real conversations about what it actually takes to build a career in film, not just make one project.
Money. Awards. Audience. Ownership.
We talk features, shorts, web series, funding, packaging, distribution, and strategy, all through the lens of thinking like an executive producer.
Follow Michelle on all platforms @ShowRunHer
ShowRunHer: Your Filmmaking Coach
Protecting Your Film From Budget To Distribution
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
Paying for a lawyer can feel painful until you realize what “free legal help” might really cost you: your IP, your leverage, and your ability to distribute. We walk through what to look for in a good entertainment lawyer, why chain of title matters so much in film distribution, and how to avoid agreements that quietly trade a credit for ownership.
We also get very real about the producing side of money: how to plan theatrical release marketing when you are opening in cities you do not live in, and why you must budget for visibility instead of hoping a platform does it for you. Then we shift into film budgeting and tax deductions, including the expense categories indie filmmakers miss most often like post-production, trailer finishing, festival travel, and even your own time. If you want cleaner expense tracking and fewer surprises, this part is a must.
From there we zoom out into career strategy: the practical Oscar qualification route through Academy Award-qualifying festivals, the difference between film production insurance and E&O insurance, and how MPAA ratings affect theatrical screenings. We talk sales agents in development vs post, building a producer presence that does not depend on posting all day, and using IMDb Pro and IMDb pages to position yourself professionally. We close with a simple product placement cold email approach that is short, readable, and designed to get you on a call.
Subscribe for more filmmaking business Q&As, share this with a producer friend, and leave a review with the one topic you want us to tackle next.
Welcome And What We Build Here
SPEAKER_00What's up? It's your girl, Michelle, aka Showrunher, your filmmaking coach. I'm an AP and a filmmaker who probably watches more filmmaking content than actual films, and I hope that that makes sense. So I decided to start a freestyle podcast where I just talk all things filmmaking. No heavy edits, no for production, just real conversations about filmmaking, funding, faith, and the real business behind getting your project from concept to screen. If you want to know more, you can head over to showrunher.com. That is S-H-O-W-R-U-N-H-E-R to download free resources, watch pre-recorded webinars, grab some freebies, or book a one-on-one session. I am also available for hire. All right, now let's get into today's episode. Because then I can post it, and some people may have some of the same um questions and get some of the answers that they need.
SPEAKER_02That makes sense. Sure stand.
SPEAKER_00Okay, so let's get into it.
SPEAKER_02Let's get into it. And I gotta tell you, they're not in any reasonable order.
SPEAKER_00Oh, that's why.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
Picking An Entertainment Lawyer
SPEAKER_02Um, so this is a two-part question. What to look for in a good entertainment lawyer, and what is the average cost um of a of an entertainment lawyer lawyer?
SPEAKER_00Oh, they're expensive. Um, so when we're talking about entertainment lawyers, you want to make sure they understand the chain of title process, and usually they do. Um, they understand the filmmaking because you got the different types of entertainment lawyers, music, etc. But they understand more so how to make sure you're set up for distribution. So that's knowing the chain of title, that's knowing what is it that you need, uh, contract-wise, sign-off wise. So those are the things that they need to be familiar with so that you can land in distribution world. And it can be very costly. Um, I've seen some feature films cost $30,000 for features and lawyers. And so I always try to give this disclaimer and tell people this as well. And I know sometimes the legal team may not like me for this, but I've seen situations where the legal team says, Hey, don't worry about paying us. Let us come on as an executive producer in return for a credit, we'll do all of your legal for this film, but then they own some of the IP. So, in reality, now you sell your production, it makes a million dollars. That legal team person took 20% of your film. So, my question is always to ask people is their legal advice worth that amount of money?
SPEAKER_03Right.
SPEAKER_00Is it easier just to pay up front than to give people IP? I'm very picky about giving over IP because what does that say in the long term of distribution? Um, but having somebody that understands some of those core elements that we went over about the chain of title, about trademarks and copyrights, understanding music cue sheets, understanding if you have product placement, if you want to have multiple investors involved, making sure all of those contracts look correctly so that you don't owe anybody, nobody come back and sue you for anything. Um, but having a good lawyer that that does it. I do recommend working with legal teams that do it. So IMDB Pro is my favorite best friend. You can go look up legal entertainment lawyers on IMDb Pro and see what films they have been a part of bigger films, major films, and you want to get somebody that is very familiar with it because you are not familiar. So them understanding all of the things that you know the insurance company and people are going to ask for clearance is what you want to make sure that they know.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
Filling Seats In New Cities
SPEAKER_02Um, when doing a theatrical release in cities that you don't live in, what's the strategy for getting people to come out?
SPEAKER_00That's where you have to include marketing in your budget. It's really no way for anybody to know if you don't have it. I think that was one of my biggest problems with Tubi and indie filmmakers. Like a lot of people were getting and being a part of um it, but they to be doesn't market for you. So it's literally about your team, your cast, whoever, your followers, and then pushing them over. So some of the marketing ideas may be to do billboards, it may to do screenings, it may be to invite influencers to have like all of these elements to help it, but you have to market how studios market through marketing dollars, through trailers, through ads, through billboards, through a press release with your cash, your talent, news outlets. You got to think real creative to get the word of mouth out.
SPEAKER_02Okay. No, that's good. Okay.
Tax Write-Offs Producers Miss
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Um, what are some of the common but often overlooked expense categories for tax um tracking?
SPEAKER_00In regards to the overall project?
SPEAKER_02Like, yeah, like what, like when what should I, for example, when I am trying to categorize as I am spending, what are some common tax categories? It's like it's travel, like, for example, travel or accessories or equipment, but ones that are often overlooked. Because there's some that's like obvious. Are there any that's like, oh, people don't think that this is a tax write-off, that driving over here to go get coffee for XYZ is a tax write-off? Are there some that are just like there, but people don't think of them or not really?
SPEAKER_00Oh, all of it. All of it is a tax write-off from your script writing to your pitch decks to marketing to what we're talking about, theatrical releases to theaters. All of that is going to be a part of your write-off because all of that is what is making your film come to place. Now, if you're not thinking about distribution, one of the most common points that I think people do not think about is post-production and distribution. Those are really expensive um parts of production. Because when you're trying to edit things properly, you're going through an editor, a colorist, you may have the sound design, a composer. So you have your film being jumped around from place to place. And so usually sometimes people do a one-time, like a one-person, like, oh, just the editor is going to do everything. But an editor should not do everything, the editor should put it together. Then you need to have a colorist, then you need to have somebody come in and do the sound and the scoring and the composing. Then if you have Foley, you got to have somebody to do that. So your film should be getting jumped off from place to place versus landing with one person. And another common thing that people don't know is that who edits the film does not edit the trailer. So you have trailer post-production homes, and then you have post-production houses for the actual film. So these are two different editors, two different sets of composers that bring your film to life. And then on an indie level, I think a lot of people forget about distribution, whether it's through a theatrical release. And if you do a theatrical release, are you trying to do major where you have a rating? You got to get it rated that costs a lot of money. Um, or if you're thinking about festival world, then how are you gonna get you and your team over to the Cairns Festival? What tickets, what money are you gonna pay for for those for hotel and lodging to do a festival run for two to three years? When we're talking about just the tax incentives and credits, all of that is going to be a write-off. So, one of the biggest things I see that I've been seeing what people are doing lately is not taking into consideration their time. Okay. If you're an EP and you have spent six months trying to get a film together, that is your time. That is something that is not calculated into a budget that you know, pay yourself. You you spent six months developing something, you do need to be paid. Um, and I think that is probably one of the biggest because a lot of people will shoot a project and don't pay themselves because they're the director or they're the DP. Another, maybe one I could say is testing. Like, so for our short films, we do a lot of test shoots. I have my director and DP to get together and do test shooting. So let's see with this camera, which camera we like. We we may rent out an Ari or we may rent out a red. Um, then we may go to a location and shoot. Well, because it's not a part of the actual production, then people will be like, oh, well, you know, we didn't do it. No, anything that you do that involves your production is going to be considered a rest a write-off. Test shooting, you know, proof of concepts, sampling scenes, uh, table reads, buying little apps and softwares. You should be literally calculating everything that you spent on that production, including your time.
SPEAKER_02Okay. And and your time is that just um right off as salary? Or how are how is that written off?
SPEAKER_00So usually in it's usually a salary. Usually you come on to a project as like an EP with a certain amount. Um, so okay, $10,000 to get this done from pre-pro to post marketing. Um, and so you usually have a set amount. I think instead of being like, okay, is this the is this deductible? Ask yourself, is this process or in what I'm doing helping is is for this film? Is what I'm doing if I pay for a writer pro a writer's program, or if I attend Michelle's 21-day class, is this helping move my project forward? Then if it is, then that is a tax write-off. Everything about that project is deductible.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
Tracking Tools That Fit Indie Budgets
SPEAKER_02Um, is there software that you could recommend using to track expenses? Because right now I'm just using like an Excel sheet.
SPEAKER_00I usually use an Excel sheet. I'm so old school. I usually use an Excel sheet. Um, there are a few accounting um platforms and programs that you can use to enter all of your deductions. Uh let me write that down so I can I'm actually gonna I can upload that um platforms for accounting.
SPEAKER_02And if um if you know some common, I guess you say everything, but some common deductions, if you think of any.
SPEAKER_00Um it's a few platforms, some in Hollywood, some and some not, but um they can kind of get very expensive. One of the things in indie filmmaking, and in what I notice or or what I try to do, so it's a platform called Yamdu. And what it is is like $500 a month or something like that. And when Hollywood and most of these productions get ready to start a production, they use that to actually help build out their production. And so, you know, they got the development team, they got the uh the makeup artists, the hairstyle, everybody is coming to be a part of this for pre-production as we go into production. The problem with Hollywood and indie is understanding that indie filmmaking moves a tad bit slower. So paying, you know, $500 for a platform when it's taking me a year and a half to get this production done, and I even went into pre-production is not beneficial. So, what I like to do is use a lot of free platforms until it's time to pay for the platforms, and a lot of that is used like in Google Drive, because yes, if I come be a part of an accounting platform, they're gonna charge me monthly. And am I using this every month just to calculate one or two things? Is that beneficial? And so it's always trying to figure out how to cut these costs until the actual production starts, until you get into the nick of it.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
The Practical Path To Oscars
SPEAKER_02Um, can you talk about what it takes to qualify for the Oscars? Okay, that was a long side. That sounded like that's a whole class. Okay.
SPEAKER_00No, no, let's talk about it. Let's talk about it because I think that's important. Because as an EP, that are there that that that is a few goals, and so I guess that's a that's a really big question. So let's bring it down.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_00Are we talking about short films? Are we talking about being nominated? And in what reference does that mean?
SPEAKER_02I wouldn't even mind just being nominated. I feel like just having it as a goal of something to aspire to, it's not even whether or not I get there. It's like the work that it takes to get there, I feel like it would train and help me to become more professional, just knowing this is what it takes to get there.
SPEAKER_00Okay. So one of the easiest ways to get into it from an indie perspective, which is what we're doing with our short film, is to be a part of Oscar-nominated film festivals. So you're creating a short film because they have a short film category for that. And so you're creating a short film to actually be nominated at one of the Academy Award-worthy festivals. Once you win in one of those categories, then you are put into the pool for the Oscars. They have a short film category.
SPEAKER_02Okay. And short film is just easier. Is are you saying that that is just easier because it's a short film, or is that like increase your likelihood or something like that? What makes short film easier as opposed to, let's say, a documentary or a feature film?
SPEAKER_00They have a documentary part, but I think it just really depends on what if documentary is your style, then that's where you want to, you know, land. But it's easier for indie filmmakers to go through the festival route for an Oscar, unless you're going to do that entire theatrical release where you're selling tickets, because that link that I sent you that shows okay, you have to be in a part of so many theaters for so many of a certain amount of runtime to even qualify, that is costly. Versus, do you just want to go the festival route and pray that you get nominated and win at one of these? And then now I'm being qualified for an academy.
Film Insurance Versus E&O
SPEAKER_02Okay, I got you. I'm hearing the long way and the shorter way. Um, what exactly is the difference between film insurance and ENO insurance? And what are some other types of insurances that I should be considering?
SPEAKER_00So those are the only two. You're gonna need your film and your ENO. So your film insurance is what happens on set during production. Somebody hit their toe, the camera broke, somebody stole somebody's light, um, cast member got sick. Um, we filmed at Airbnb and we broke their TV.
SPEAKER_02Is this the same one that is used for like? So I have a I have an insurance that I use for when I'm shooting in someone else's location. Is that the same or that something different?
SPEAKER_00It depends. Do you know the name of the company? So they do have film insurance companies.
SPEAKER_02So oh, okay. That's probably what that is. Okay.
SPEAKER_00But when you go through with a film insurance company, they're gonna do the same thing. Actually, how many people on said? How many local? It's a form because you're even being asked, are you using a gun? Like if you was asked any of that, then that was the right insurance. If not, then you may have had something a bit more minor.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_00When you are working on the film insurance, they're going to quote you based on your production. Are you guys gonna be blowing up cars? Are you gonna have a gun on set? Is it gonna be visible knives? Is it a horror? Like, is it any stunts involved, any animals involved? So, because those increase your quote. Um, you know, SAG union increases your quote. If you're working with SAG and you're working with SAG actors, you have to have film insurance because they want to make sure something happens to their talent, it's covered.
SPEAKER_02Um, do you typically need film insurance if that type that you're talking about? If it's like a documentary and you don't have like a lot of props or sets, y'all are just it's largely talking heads and b-roll.
SPEAKER_00So if you're going to be trying to get through distribution, then one of the ways to get the insurance and qualify is that you have to have had film insurance. Okay, okay, and there's some places so film insurance is not uh cheap, but there's some insurance companies, especially out in LA, I used them before, where you can come under an umbrella and they pay for their insurance, and you just kind of come under their umbrella, you may get it for a couple hundred dollars, two hundred dollars, three hundred dollars. You start shooting it yourself, trying to get your own quote with a with a lower deductible. So, what I'm saying is it may be a higher deductible that five thousand dollars worth of damage has to happen on set before we start the claim. So if somebody just broke a camera and it cost two thousand dollars to get fixed, then you can't file a claim. So that's really important to take into consideration because that's what happened on one of our most recent sets. We didn't have the we had a very high deductible, somebody stole something from somebody, and one of the cameras did break, but we did not reach our highest quote of deductible, and so therefore, we had to come out of pocket.
SPEAKER_02Hmm, okay.
SPEAKER_00So your film production is what is going on on set? Is everybody protected on set? Is everybody okay on set in case somebody gets sick? Somebody we saw the horrible incident in Hollywood where somebody got killed on set with a gun. That is what film insurance is for, so that you don't have to personally come out of your pocket. So I recommend even if you go under an umbrella of somebody that the deductible is a bit higher, if something crazy happens, then you will not be sued. Um, and it's something that your personal assets, because just God forbid, imagining somebody dies on your set, what that can look like. Um especially if it's partly your fault, you know. Um, and so that's why I do recommend it. I do, I think it's really important to get it to some capacity. Um, and then your EO insurance is what is needed after post-production. Hey, we're going to give it over to Netflix, and then Netflix is saying, Well, I don't want nobody to sue us in case something did go wrong on y'all set when you were shooting, and somebody may feel entitled to something, or you didn't get a um document signed, or something went wrong, and then now they're like, We're gonna sue you. We saw this with Tyler Perry's film on Netflix. I saw I was watching Netflix last night, and I saw I didn't actually think the film was still on Netflix, it was like some governor TV show or something. I don't know if you remember that.
SPEAKER_02With is that the she the people thing that you were talking about?
SPEAKER_00So that was the whole controversy. Like, hey, you stole our idea, and then they had to switch the name, they had to switch the title, like all these things had to happen. Um, and they probably did have a good clearance, but if somebody said I wrote it, then that's the word that they take versus somebody else had proof that I wrote it. So then you got to change the title, you got to change some things. So that's pretty much what Netflix and all of these other companies are trying to prevent. We're trying to prevent a lawsuit that y'all want to come and sue us for somebody else's work that we particularly didn't participate in, that we just acquired because we don't know how y'all ran y'all set, which is cool. Y'all cool, y'all can run y'all set how y'all want to run y'all set, but in case y'all didn't run it properly, they're not gonna sue us, they're all and so that's the point of the ENO insurance.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
Ratings Rules For Theaters
SPEAKER_02Um, I know ratings come from NPAA, but can you gauge what a rating is from for a particular film by going somewhere online and putting in some information?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and but even on the rating side, it'll let you know if you have cursing or is it a blood scene, or it's certain things that they list that can still qualify it for that.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_00So they still have their let me see something real quick. They still have their um, okay, so yeah, this is it. So just a brief example. G is all ages, nothing that will offend parents for viewing by children. Um, and then you go into the rated R, which is that you feel Like it needs to be accompanied by a parent, it contains violence, language, or nudity? So if you show some part of the body, then okay, now you're in rated R. But PG 13 may be some words that are said, but no, nothing nude. So the minute you show something nude, you move from PG 13 to rated R.
SPEAKER_02Can a movie get picked up without having the MPAA rating?
SPEAKER_00It cannot be screened at a theater. So that was the entire point. Like all of these parents, moms came together and was like, hey, we don't know what our children are watching. We feel like some of this stuff is inappropriate. And that's what started this system. So if you want to be in it's a lot of films that have not been rated yet, you'll see that not rated, that NR, that means not rated. And sometimes when you're watching the films roll up a green screen, and if you see that it's green or whatever, it can give you some information to it. But if it's going to be in a theater and if it's going to have a theatrical release, it has to have a rating.
SPEAKER_02Um, does it does um MPAA also provide that NR rating, or do can you get that from somewhere else if it's in process?
SPEAKER_00What do you mean?
SPEAKER_02The NR, like can you get from somewhere for it to say on the screen, like oh the NR rating?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, the NR rating is just that we haven't rated it yet, so it hasn't gone through Motion Picture Association.
SPEAKER_02Okay, and so with the NR, it can't be screened also.
SPEAKER_00You can have personal private screenings, yeah. You can have personal private screenings.
SPEAKER_02Um, can you explain the the utility of a um entertainment identifier registry and also as well as the individual standard audio visual number?
SPEAKER_00No.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_00What are you trying to walk me through it a little bit more?
SPEAKER_02Yeah. So I'm not 100% sure other than that, other than looking at all of the things that films, you know, what do films need to have, how to qualify this film, just like to make the film legit. And somewhere on some of the films, I saw EID, EIDR, and it was an entertainment identifier registry, like you have to register the film. And then there was another one that says individual standard audio visual number um for for something that that was a submission. I was just like, I don't know what this is. Um, so maybe that's just like just something that I'm not at that level yet.
SPEAKER_00If you could send me that, I would love to research it because I still feel like it's leaning towards the title, I mean leaning towards like this clean chain of title. It still feels that that is what it is. I don't know if it has another like name for it, but it still feels like it's along that area.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
When To Hire A Sales Agent
SPEAKER_02Um, what point should I be looking for a sales agent? Is that something somebody you look for in post or in production?
SPEAKER_00Um, okay, so sales agents serve multiple purposes at any part of the develop of the production phase. So you may want to get a sales agent in the development phase because you want to send in your treatment idea and you want them to find an investor to fund you or a network to pick you up. So if you find them in the beginning, pretty much what you're saying is, I don't want to fund my own film. I want you to find somebody to fund it for me, and I want to have a distribution deal. Sales agents can also come in and post-production. You wrapped up, you finished, it's done. Can you get someone to license it out for us? So having a sales agent just really depends on what you plan on doing with your project. And do you want somebody to represent some of your projects? So, you know, you may have a project that is done, and I need a sales agent to find it to go through Amazon, or can you put this on Tubi? And then you also may be pitching to that sales agent. I have another idea for Aurora. Could you find an investor for us to actually shoot it? So they serve purpose throughout the entire production process. It really just depends on what you're trying to do. Do you want to find somebody to help you make money without it? Or like, hey, I don't want to spend my own money and I don't feel like looking for product placement, crowdfunding grants. I need I want you to find me somebody. Find me a network, find me an investor, find me a production company so I can shoot it. Or do you want to shoot it on the IP and then license it out? I think those things really come down to how you're trying to set up your projects.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
Producer Presence And Real Networking
SPEAKER_02Um, so I I've, you know, I'm function I'm functioning as a producer or EP and not really a lot on the um, not really trying to be in front of the camera um at all. Can you share a little bit of like some of the insights that you have around having an online presence as a producer, like key items to show uh as a producer? I remember you were telling me about having some shots of me behind the scene. I but behind the scenes, I have that. Um, but like how to show up as a as a producer, because most of the stuff that I see is like they're actors or something like that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean, EP is is is is its own beast, right? It's really no way to market because sometimes people feel like, do I need can I get an EP reel? Yeah, you can get an EP reel. If you worked on a production and you got it together, it's no difference than getting all of those best moments because you're the one that hired the director, you're the one that pulled the team together, you're the one that is the reason why the production is done. So, whatever it is you're including on your reel or your resume, it has to do with you. EPs are the one that starts this whole thing, pops it off, and brings it together. An EP presence is kind of it varies. You got some EPs that don't even have social media pages, like they don't have social media, and to be honest with you, I was just talking about this the other day. Whenever I get to where I would be, I would, I'm definitely coming off of social media. I think my presence of being on social media is to consistently showcase that I am an EP and I know how to produce. I think that comes down to personal preference. Are you one that wants to continuously put content creation online all day? Do you want to, you know, X, Y, and Z? I don't necessarily think you have to have an online presence to get gigs, to get jobs, versus you need to be networking. You need to be a person that is resourceful. That if somebody comes and says, I want to do this, you say, I know an investor, or I know a brand that would be a part of that. Or word of mouth is going to get across that I know somebody can fund your project, online presence or not, then having one. Because what is the point of having an online presence if you don't have ways to find investors, no talent, no sales agents, it doesn't matter. I think EPN is for me has always been about my valuable resources. Who do I know? Who can I connect with? If I find a film or know somebody, that's no different than an investor saying, Can you find me a script? Do I know screenwriters? You know, so I think it's more about who you know, um, and how resourceful you are for other people. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Okay. That makes sense to me. It's just so much of like people are like, no, you got to put your face out there. And I'm like, why do they care what I look like?
SPEAKER_00Um I think that's originally. Um I think that's originally. And I think when you're starting off, you want people to know. And people do want to see your face. Like, I get all of that. I'm so behind the scenes. I mean, I spent years doing a production and people didn't even know who the owner was. Like, I'm just like, guys, I'm just I'm just doing what I love. Like, all this extra stuff is just so much to me. But um, I think when it comes down to presence, whether you should or should not, I think that's subjective, people's perspective, what you feel. I think the bottom point, the the the foundation of it is you need to be resourceful. You need to have the resources.
SPEAKER_02Okay, and when you were saying networking, are you saying like go to like industry stuff, like in my city?
SPEAKER_00Go to festivals, um, bump into their sales agents, their distributors, there's press, there's directors, their TV agents and networks, they're at festivals, they're vetting, they're looking for projects. Go to these festivals, bump into somebody. Who are you? Hi, I'm an executive producer. Oh, I'm EPN too. I got projects. This is how you start building relationships that takes years to cultivate. Like, just because you met somebody today at a festival don't mean that y'all gonna be working together next year. Eight years, 10 years, because that was the case. I met a lot of people 10 years ago, and we just now started working together. It just really depends on the type of project, what project you're working on, what project I'm working on, is it alignment? Is it not do I have another team? Do I need somebody else? The biggest thing is networking, knowing other EPs, knowing other investors, knowing you know, who is the founder of C D and Spark? You know, could I be invited to an event? Do I know anybody over at the Cans Festival? Like who you know in this industry matter way more than your online presence. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
Setting Up IMDb The Right Way
SPEAKER_02Um, what's my next one? My IMDB uh page. So I need to have one, so it sounds like I need to have several. Um, one for myself, one for because I'm doing a series, so I have one for the series and then one for each film, and then and is there a way to link them? Yeah, okay.
SPEAKER_00So you are gonna have your personal one, and then each project is gonna have its own. So each project that you do will have its own IMDb page, and from there you link yourself, you don't do the opposite, you don't go you usually so you're getting ready to put out, I don't know, a showrunner film. You add that new showrunner film to IMDB, and it's going to ask you to tag the people that are involved, and then that is when you tag yourself.
SPEAKER_02Okay, got it. No, that's helpful.
SPEAKER_00Yep. So each production, each short film, each series, each feature, each documentary, whatever is going to have its own page that directly links to you and all of your projects. So I'll give you a quick example. Let me let me share my screen real quick. Um so Ryan has his own page, but in his bio, he has these his films that he's linked to.
SPEAKER_02I've never seen him look like that.
SPEAKER_00He was a young buck right here.
SPEAKER_02I see.
SPEAKER_00Um, but you have all of you have your main page and who you are, and then you have your film pages, and then your film pages tags the director writer.
SPEAKER_02How did you just get to the his film pages?
SPEAKER_00Well, he has it in his bio because he's oh okay, but also it's further down too. If you don't have it tagged yet, you can go through his page or anybody's page and see all of the films he's worked on, but every film has its own IMDb page. Even the upcoming ones that are being optioned and in pre-production.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I see.
SPEAKER_00Okay, so you don't have to create a bunch of you pages, you have your one main page that you are filling in with your bio, with your photos, with your videos, with information about you on set. Like this is your personal profile page. Just think of that. This is your personal profile page, which he could update his imd page, at least the most recent one with this movie.
SPEAKER_01But you have like all of his you could enter all your personal details. Like, I'll like when it came to like height, like they don't need to know my height. Yeah, it's up to you. You can put whatever you like, that's totally up to you.
SPEAKER_00Um, put whatever you want and just yeah, trivia, just stuff you want to put in there, and then after you create that, then as your films are coming on. So if I was working with Ryan on a project right now called I don't know, showrunner, I would create a showrunner short film, and then tag your executive producers, your DPs, you then put everybody on the project.
SPEAKER_02Okay, and so and this is a question kind of for you, but in general, and that is like I imagine with you, you probably work with the same people, right?
Building A Team Across Genres
SPEAKER_02Like, do you typically like I get some of the advice of like find your people and just like work with those same people? Do you typically work with the same people? And is that like you find that beneficial?
SPEAKER_00Oh no, voting question.
SPEAKER_02Uh oh.
SPEAKER_00So I've been in the film industry for 17 years, and it has been a lot of people that I worked with previously, I don't work with anymore for a variety, a plethora of reasons. Who I prefer having some of the same people, and I'll give you some examples, and then I'll give you some reasons why not, and I'll give you some reasons about why it should be based off of you. So EPN, and I just I had a big call earlier today. I think a lot of people think EPN is do this, do this. Okay, make sure you're here for location, make sure you're here for this, versus a lot of it is managing the entire team and the process. So, okay, I get ready to drop a short film. The director that I worked with on my last comedy project feels that okay, do I hire you for my horror short film? Because a horror director, a comedy director, an action director are all different. To shoot an action film is completely different than to shoot a comedy based off of the two and three camera setup, based off of so much that happens in an action film. The fighting, the running, the chasing, the rigs, the type of equipment, the type of cameras, the type of lenses, how y'all you know shoot things from different spots and angles versus a comedy, we're just in one location, you know. So the directing part of that I feel is very different. Now, do people cross-direct? Of course, and some people can, but do you want to hire somebody that is best? You gotta hire, in my opinion, I try to hire people that are best suitable for the film that I'm creating. If I know I'm shooting a horror and all you did was direct comedies, I think it probably would be better for me to find a horror director. Because then you understand the lighting, what we're trying to do, the illusion we're trying to give, the beats that the talent needs to have. So that's my take. Now, can it be challenging? Because people do take things personal. Well, I worked with you before. Why can't I work with you now? And so a pin is a constant need to regulate, you're trying to regulate everybody's feelings and emotions and wants and needs. And I didn't learn this until at least 10 years in my career. Like, it's taking me the last five years, literally, to be like, oh, okay. I'm literally just EP in everybody's nervous system. I'm I'm just that's basically, you know what I'm saying? Like, you know, how do I gently tell somebody, oh, we're shooting a horror, we need a different type of director? Like, how do you say that without offending somebody? So that is what EP is about. EP is about, okay, I have a team of executive producers, and we are vetting out different directors. I put your name in the pool and we'll see where we land. So making people feel comfortable, whereas like I'm not trying to not include you, but ultimately I'm trying to do what's best for the project.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_00Uh, and so that is a hard thing. I think something since we're talking about it, and we just saw Ryan Kugler's page, he has kind of stuck a little bit in the same genre, which is not that far off. And he's a like, um, in my opinion, a very multi-talented director. So he's used to working with his team, his team knows how he works. Now it's very beneficial for your team to know how you work as a director DP. I know what Ryan is looking for, I know he doesn't like these certain shots, I know he can't stand when this is here because we talked about that last time, and he was like, I don't like that. So it can be very beneficial depending on the role to work with the same people, right? Um, and then it be then at some point it may become strategic. Is it strategic for him and um what's about to call that man Mike Kugler? Uh Michael B.
SPEAKER_02Jordan had a baby, yeah.
SPEAKER_00They had a baby for Michael B and him to work together. Well, yeah, because at this point we love the duo. So um, will it probably be a time where Michael B go works with somebody else? Of course. Maybe it's a time where you know Ryan brings somebody else, of course. But I think things like that are more strategic. And I'm writing something specifically for you. We're gonna take over this genre. This is gonna be our element, our lane, versus if Ryan was to write a comedy, can Michael B cross over to comedy? And do I hire him or do I get him a um acting coach, or do I find somebody that is very popular in comedy? Do I go get Kevin Hart? Because Kevin Hart is comedy, you know what I'm saying? So it's about picking what is best for the project. And then if you have some people that you absolutely love, then yeah, stick with them. So I have a new EP team. Well, kind of new, but not. I got some new people and we're working together on EP team, but I have an executive producer that I've been working with for the last 17 years, my entire film career. And it's not about genre versus EP and is more about style.
SPEAKER_02Like, can we get work style?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, like work style. Do we work good work ethic? Do I handle all of the funding and you handle the team? And you know, do you work on set or can you do the hiring? And do I work with the brands? And so because it doesn't matter what genre it is, technically, it matters can we get the right people for the team to pull off the genre? You have the discerning of I know how to hire a good horror director, I know what I'm looking for. Um, and now we're on a comedy film. I know I know what I'm looking for for comedy. So sometimes above the line can be the same people, sometimes below the line may be different. So that's gonna come down to your film career.
SPEAKER_02When you
Budget Priorities That Protect Your Set
SPEAKER_02are looking at the budget, are there specific cost areas that you prioritize? And are there specific ones where it's just like if something got to go, this could go?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I start off with my key players. Who do I need? I need a DP, I need a director, I need somebody from lighting, I need sound. And then, okay, do I want a first AD or do I want a script supervisor? Um, do I need another PA? Do I get a makeup artist and a hairstylist and wardrobe, or do I hire a makeup hairstylist? And then, or does the makeup hairstylist is creative enough to also do wardrobe? So it's starting, you you gotta figure out what what how much money I have to start off with what I have. And then from there I'm building on. Now I've gotten to a place in my life where I just love me a first AD and a script supervisor. Like I just love y'all because you keep my set on time, working with the director. So the director has support for the first A D point, my script D depending on the type of film we have. Do I need you to keep everything in sync? Do I need to know where things land? Do like what is what type Of film is this um for that, and then I start building off top of that with my role. So if I have more money, then do I need to do I want to do a producer or do I want to um maybe do a set designer or you know you would you would value a an A D over a line producer? Yes, because I can personally do some line producing myself.
SPEAKER_02Uh okay.
SPEAKER_00So I'm not completely I can break down a budget, I can I can do some line producing. Am I as good as a line producer? No, but I can, and because I'm producing, I can do that, but I want my director to have support. So I would pick a first AD over a line producer.
SPEAKER_02Got it. Um, I've seen I've looked a lot at um Studio Binder, and when it comes up, it's like, oh, this could be useful for this, or or sometimes it's like this has so many bells and whistles, there's no way I'm using all of this.
Managing Projects Without Overpaying
SPEAKER_02Um, do you have any like project management software that you that you use that you find really beneficial for for the full process?
SPEAKER_00Um, what are you trying? You you want to do from development to post-production?
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Okay, so I do like Studio Binder. It's still some small features that it doesn't have. I like Yamdu, but all of these, again, we went back to pricing earlier. Um, it can be very expensive, especially if you're not using this on a daily basis. Like, I don't the studio binder until we go into pre like I'm in pre-production, I'm getting ready to send out call sheets, is when I pocket Studio Binder. But in the times before then, let me see if I can pull up something. I use Google Drive. This is my favorite folder base where I can prioritize. Let me see if I can find one. Maybe I have it where I can build out my own process.
SPEAKER_02Um do you have uh, and maybe it's in our resources, like a template timeline or no? For different for uh development, production, post-production. Like I've I've been using, I've been like you in in terms of like I've been on drive and I use a there's a project management software that has it phases, so I've just gone in and made these different sections of what this is free, this is you know, that sort of thing.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's what I do. I think that's your cheapest thing because it's now you're gonna be spending monthly on programs that um I don't use every month, don't use every month, like a short film that I'm in, we're six months in, and I'm like, I'm thinking like if I had Studio Binder, I'd be spending $60, $70 a month, and we're even in pre-production, and I don't even know when we're going into pre-production. So the best bet is for me to use like my Google Drive, which is free, until we get into the thick of it, and then I figure out, okay, what platform do I want to use?
SPEAKER_02Okay, what are some elements that are essential if I'm trying to be long-term
Making Filmmaking Sustainable Long Term
SPEAKER_02sustainable? Like if I'm like, I'm not just trying to do this for this one project, I need to I need to have some things in place to be able to repeatedly do this.
SPEAKER_00You gotta find a way to make a month some money off of a project. And I always tell people if you want to make money off a project, shoot a feature film, shoot a feature and get it, shoot it for low and acquire it, get it sold, and then make more films. Um, short films don't make a lot of money, documentaries don't make a lot of money. I mean, they can make some money, but when you're talking about, okay, people make features for fifty thousand dollars and sell it for 500,000. Now we're talking, okay, I got some money to play around with. Um, so I think the biggest thing is finding you a project, owning the IP to it and selling it, licensing it out to some way.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that's kind of my leaning to go that route.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. You want to make some money and get things popping, start with a feature, and then therefore, you can start working with whatever you want to work with after that. But your features, that's your moneymaker, that is going to bring you in revenue in the shortest amount of time.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
Email Permission And Chain Of Title
SPEAKER_02Um, and then I on another call, you had mentioned something about, and I just wanted to get confirmation on it, that um a person saying, like giving a release over email counts as a release. Like, if I'm like, hey, can I use these images that you shot? This, I don't know, this drone footage, and it was like, yeah, sure, go ahead. That that is I could put that in the chain of command, like in a chain of command, um, chain of title.
SPEAKER_00So I yes and no. So I always recommend to try to urge for some type of contract.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_00Like in smaller brands and companies, you guys can land on getting a contract or something together. A bigger company like Netflix and Nike, them signing over your sponsorship document without giving any money, the odds are very low. So if I email them and say, Hey, can I use it for product place? And they say, Well, you know, we don't want to sign a contract, but we'll send you over some product, that is what you're using for verification. But you always want to try to aim towards getting things signed from cousins, mamas, family members. My my brother be on my set and he be signing all NDAs and contracts, sir. You gotta get it signed. Sorry, mama, you gotta get it. Um, I know you, I trust you, the studio don't know you, so they may not trust you. But I always urge to get things signed, get it in a contract, get it in writing. Always, even if you've got to try to nudge Nike a little bit to say, okay, can I get something? But if push comes to shove and they send you some clothes and you show it, you do have at least something that gave you some type of permission, but usually you need some documentation when you are working on like audio and royalty-free music, even on their platforms, you can go to their FAQ session section and they give you permission, and that is what you download and use. So they don't physically write you out anything, but it's on their website, and you download it and you use it.
SPEAKER_02Okay, it's almost that time. I ain't gone. Um, but thank you for thank you for uh for all of this. This is very helpful. Um, it helps me to think strategically a little bit more about how to position and make some of my next moves because I'm still pretty new to this.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and I'm gonna do another QA session. So next week we'll pause and then maybe the week after that, I'll do another QA. Some people email, they've been watching the classes and they kind of been a bit busy, but I would love to do another QA just to keep people you know on top engaged because as you're building productions out, you just have so many questions trying to build it out. So I'm gonna do I'll probably do a couple more QAs for this, but it's so it's so much to take in.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And so I think what I always tell tell people get what you can and then make it your own, like make all of this your own process. You become every EP is gonna have their own process. So how EP is going to be your process and how it works for you.
SPEAKER_02Could you tell me one more thing?
Cold Email For Product Placement
SPEAKER_02And that's what what is your cold cold email language for uh when you first reach out to a person about product placement? Is it like, hey, it's like how do you what's what's your initial contact like? For my subject or my for your, let's say, like, so I'm in Baltimore, and so Under Armour is really big here. So if I'm reaching out to Under Armour and I I've I went on LinkedIn or wherever I needed to go, and I've identified, oh, this person is the director of marketing and branding or whatever. Um, and I got their email address. How do you approach that call? Like not that call, that email, that initial introduction.
SPEAKER_00So I just really send over, I put it. Um, if you go to my showrunner page, I did a I sent um, I think on the last maybe three posts down, I screenshot an example of what I send out. Oh it varies sometimes. I'm really quick. Sometimes I'm like, hey, I have so I was working on a project that had Viola Davis on it, and that did not require a whole email. Right. Much of mine was like Doritos and Viola Davis.
SPEAKER_02Say less.
SPEAKER_00Say less, right? Viola wants to be a part. Let's jump on a call. Sure, on a call. Um, some depending on who you got on your team, what project, how much information you have, you may need to just say a bit more. Hey, this is what I'm doing, this is what I'm trying to do. But I never encourage for it to be a long email. You want something that people can read quickly and decide whether I want to reply or not. Um, so you don't need to send over eight and six paragraphs because you're the point is to get them on a call. Like I want to get you on a call and I want to sell this to you. Um, so usually, like, hey, my name is Michelle Daniel. I'm an executive producer at Seafill Studios, and we're looking for brands for a short film with an amazing festival run at the Cans, at Sundance, with some marketing PR and press involved. Are you guys interested in talking about what those tiers look like? Something real brief website link, maybe the pitch deck link, and kind of just a quick call to action. Can we meet next week?
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, because you want them to be like, sure, let's do it. So um, and then some dependent on like some I could be very, very like, oh man, this is the company. I remember I had emailed Chanel um one time, and I was like, Oh, I feel like I gotta do the most because of this luxury company. And I wanted to pin out everything, and I did. Um, so I think you start to learn your flow of it based off of the brands, how casual they are, how formal they are, how luxury they are. And then you're making a decision of how much information do I want to say in this email versus I want us to get on a call together.
SPEAKER_02Okay. Got it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Well, thank you very much, ma'am. I appreciate you.
SPEAKER_00You're welcome. Keep me posted. Um, and if you need something else, let me know. Um, and I'm looking forward to see all that you're working on.
SPEAKER_02Thank you. I appreciate
Final Takeaways And Share Request
SPEAKER_02that.
SPEAKER_00Bye.
SPEAKER_02Bye bye.
SPEAKER_00And that's a wrap. All right. If this has helped you think differently about your film, do me a favor. Share this to another filmmaker who needs it.
