The Soul Purpose

What happens when your daily work aligns with a calling? In this episode, we sit down with University Chaplain Dr. Benjamin Sammons to explore the bigger picture beyond the classroom. While higher education often focuses on GPAs and graduation regalia, Dr. Sammons challenges us to look deeper at the "purpose" that guides us when the ceremonies end. 

Join us for a calming and reflective conversation about finding your cardinal direction in a shifting world and how we can help the next generation discover who they are truly meant to be.

Special thanks to my colleague and Anesu Simango for editing this espisode. 

Explore episode extras and more at Behind the Mic: www.gobeyondthesyllabus.com. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

If we are always imagining ourselves or grading ourselves, evaluating ourselves on some kind of performance, some kind of output, some kind of productivity, we are really reducing, really diminishing, thinning out our own humanity.

SPEAKER_03 0:21

Hello and welcome to this episode of Beyond the Syllabus Pedagogy and Purpose. So we often talk about what students are doing in the classroom in their academic life. They are receiving their credits for their program, they are completing internships and the graduation requirements. But today I want to talk about who they are becoming. And we are joined today by Dr. Ben Sammons, the chaplain at Wingate University, and we're going to talk about the soul purpose, S-O-U-L purpose. Because we have a lot of pressure that's being placed on some of our students to be like high performers and ticking boxes, but we want to look at more than just their career path. We want to talk about that vocation and that true overall purpose or that lifetime purpose. So welcome to this episode. If you want to tell a little, a little bit about yourself to our audience.

SPEAKER_00 1:23

Sure. Thank you so much for having me. I'm really excited about the conversation. Um myself, I've I've been at Wingate University as an assistant professor of English since 2015. Little gap in there, but in the last year, have um also assumed the role as university chaplain, which allows me to sort of reach into all kinds of work that that I loved and cared deeply about before, but didn't have nearly as much kind of opportunity or space or license really to uh to dip into. And it very much aligns with, I think, questions that you're interested in in this podcast. And so I'm really excited to be able to talk with you about it.

SPEAKER_03 2:04

So a little backstory. Um, so we're sitting on a committee here at the university, and there was this conversation about the language that's going to be involved in this revision of things. And one of the words that you kept saying during those conversations was purpose, purpose, purpose. And in the back of my mind, I was thinking, yes, purpose, purpose. And then I was like, oh, Ben, would you be interested? Because you bring such an insightful and passionate uh voice to the purpose of what we do here at the university, and then instilling that in the students. And so it the bells went off of my head, and it was like, please, please come on and just kind of share this. Um, so we'll jump into some of the questions um that I've you know I had on my mind. Um so in this academic setting and in the college setting, students develop, right? So they have come from their families and their communities where they've had some of this culture and beliefs that have been instilled in them, and then they come to college and then they have exposure to a lot of things and they have a lot more freedom, right? Um good and maybe, you know, questionable. Um, so how would you say students are balancing maybe their belief system and then that Monday through Friday and weekend student self? Are they balancing that or what are some things that that students should start to think about with keeping with their belief system and their purpose?

SPEAKER_00 3:45

Yeah. Yeah, you know, I I think I think we need sort of probably sociologists to gather the data for us, right? About, you know, asking that question of do these feel connected for you? But in um, I you know, I I think I heard in your question a little bit of if they're not connected, sort of that their religious beliefs and expression and the Monday through Friday kind of thing, you know, what does it look like to integrate those further and to to to hold those together? And and one of the things that, you know, that I think about here is I don't know if it's particular to the modern West or or what, but where there is this kind of dichotomy often between this sort of like private religious expression that, you know, maybe happened sometime on the weekend or whatever your particular sort of religious tradition is, and then your day-to-day, right? And and of course, these are separate things, your public life, your private life, et cetera. And I think really for for probably most of the world's major religions, and certainly for Jewish and Christian traditions, that's just a dichotomy that doesn't exist in in those traditions at all. You know, um that that that faith is something that is very much um woven into sort of the ordinary um warp and woof of of life. And that if it's not, it's like, well, what are we what are we doing here? Um I think, you know, I I think if students struggle with those being kind of separated out, you know, maybe the answer is actually just leaning a little bit deeper into your religious tradition, because I think you're in most of them, you're going to find these resources that say, no, this is about all of life, right? Like again, maybe thinking about about the Christian tradition, maybe one of the places that this kind of binary comes from is some sort of notion that um, you know, in in in certain modern expressions, there's a sense that, you know, we're kind of twiddling our thumbs here on here on earth until until heaven, right? That's somewhere off in the clouds, some sort of distant future, and who knows when that's coming. But that's the really important stuff, and we're just sort of biding our time, which is not at all a Christian story, in fact, right? There's there's this talk of like heaven isn't out there, heaven comes to this, to this world, right? And transforms and makes a new heavens and a new earth, a a new um world that we live in now. And so everything that we're doing here to care for the people here and and the place is all sacred and holy work that endures into eternity, right? Um, so yeah, I I just think I think that there's a real invitation to understand one's religious faith as something that has all kinds of implications for the here and now, for my classes, for my homework, for how I spend the weekends, for how I celebrate getting to the end of the week, you know, like it matters for all of that, I believe.

SPEAKER_03 6:56

Oh, okay, good. Um I guess this is kind of a continuation. You you touched on it, right? Um, and we think about campus culture and we talk about, you know, being inclusive with the diversity that we have on campuses. Um, what are some of the things that students could maybe put on, maybe not a checklist? I said checklist, but maybe it's not a checklist that they're completing their degree, but they're also expanding their spiritual walk through this journey in higher education. Uh if that makes sense. Maybe I have to rephrase it, but does that make sense?

SPEAKER_00 7:36

Yeah. Uh is it sort of how how do we not experience our studies as just a checklist, as sort of getting the degree, but but that there's a that there's a spiritual dimension to it, that this is also a pilgrimage. Is that where what you're doing? That's where I'm going. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Um, I love that because I absolutely do think as you suggested, what what I was just talking about does speak to the the spiritual significance of what we're doing in filling those course requirements, et cetera. You know, this is maybe one place that I might make a plug for the liberal arts a little bit, you know, and at Wingate, we've got kind of this core. While while people are pursuing all kinds of different professional paths, right? We've got this liberal arts core that everybody is sort of passing through. And, you know, liberal arts, I think, I think probably a lot of us don't even know kind of where that term comes from. It certainly isn't about a political affiliation, right? The liberal arts are liberal, right? They're leftist or progressive or whatever. It it's actually rather this notion of liberation, liberating, and that that these are disciplines and studies that are designed to liberate human beings from habits of mind, attitudes, you know, entrenched behaviors that are actually destructive for us, that are um, that are confining, that are, that are imprisoning. And what does it look like to get free of those things by way of study so that we can enter into a fuller human flourishing, right? And so I think that any place where the liberal arts are any part of the curriculum, that's this massive resource, right, for reaching into and acknowledging and making explicit the spiritual dimension of what we're about here. Um and then I also think asking, you know, maybe even and especially for students who are in sort of pre-professional tracks and where where the profession at the end, the career at the end of the degree is maybe clearer um than for other folks. Um I think for them too, kind of asking the question and holding before them on a regular basis, like what kind of life is it that you're longing for on the other side of this, right? Because these four, five, six, you know, however many years it is that people are working on this degree, even when, even when they are thinking about it primarily in terms of, I just need a credential in order to get this particular job, like it's such a narrow little window of life, right? Four to six years, you know, that's not long. And hopefully, even the pursuit of a career is oriented towards some larger vision of like, I want for my life to count for X, Y, and Z. I want for these things to characterize my life and my person and my identity and how I show up in community, et cetera, et cetera. And I think if we just keep those questions, what what are the answers to those for you in front of students and find ways to employ that language and create forums and spaces to talk about those things on campus, then we really situate that kind of checklisty, you know, you know, checking off the the course requirements in this larger context to say this is ultimately about something bigger than a piece of paper. Well, of course, that matters so much and hopefully is setting you up to do the kind of work that you want to do. That work is surely for something more, right?

SPEAKER_03 11:35

I love that. I love that because I think that some of the conversations that some professors have in their courses of this is not just this class. This is how this weaves into this fabric of who you will become later on. Some of the skills that you're learning are not just for this assignment. This is something that you'll be able to translate and then think about how do you impact others with the skills that you are, you know, are achieving through your courses, your time at the university.

SPEAKER_00 12:05

Yeah. And I think that faculty and staff have so much to do to sort of build a culture that is always making those connections. But I also would really encourage students to to sort of discipline themselves in classes to be asking the questions themselves, right? There are there are some classes that we're going to take where that application just is not nearly as obvious, right? It feels like I am just doing this because somebody told me that I had to. And I think in those spaces, building in a practice as a student of saying, let me, let me actively look for the application, right? It's it's not obvious to me. Let me dig a little bit. Um, not only because that's going to um that's going to make it possible for me to um, you know, actually apply this in in some way after this class, but also like I'm probably going to perform better in the class itself and sort of uh make better grades just by virtue of the fact that I was able to connect it to something that does matter to me. And so I think students just sort of taking some responsibility in that equation as well.

SPEAKER_03 13:15

Okay, so I'm gonna make a little left turn on on that one. So that's kind of an action item for for students, right? To to take on the the responsibility of diving deeper. What can we as instructors do? Like maybe there's some examples that you can think of that we can implement that in the classroom so that students are thinking deeper about the skill, their purpose, how do they use that to impact later on?

SPEAKER_00 13:43

Yeah. You know, I I I love the title of of your podcast, Beyond the Syllabus. And yet in this moment, I I want to say it starts with the syllabus. You know, like I I'm always maybe my, I don't know if it's my favorite, one of my favorite parts of a syllabus is just like an intro blurb at the top. Like, what is this course? Like at the end of the day, what is this for? You know, and I think professors and instructors asking themselves the hard question about, yeah, okay, of course I've got this job description and I've been hired to teach X, Y, and Z courses. And this is what's expected to me. So, you know, if it if this is where we are in the rotation and this fall, you know, my my chair asked me to do this, like, yeah, okay, fine, but can I go deeper as well and say, yeah, but when I'm showing up in this space, like, what is it that I am really hoping happens for my students here? Like, why does this subject matter for me? Right? It isn't only the students who need to do that work. I think we need to stay really fresh with, you know, maybe five years ago I was teaching this course and it meant X, Y, and Z to me, but maybe that's gotten stale, right? And so when I'm writing this syllabus, can I keep the language that I'm using for students? Can I keep that up to date with my own person and my own development and my own sense of calling and purpose, et cetera? And can we offer a short paragraph at the beginning of the syllabus that says, here's why this matters, and then to frame our assignments in in terms of that, right? Like we don't always have to be wedded to the sort of learning outcomes and objectives that that we have always been with. I think, I think that's a dynamic thing. And so, yeah, I I think just beginning with a syllabus to say, why does it matter to me? What do I really hope? How do I hope that students are different at the end of the semester? And then getting really explicit with that about them. And I think also that doing that can be this highly personalizing experience in the classroom as well, that it can build trust, it can build credibility to sort of say, look, I'm in process too, as a professor and as a human being. And I've experienced this class in this way before, that hey, here's what I'm thinking about this semester. And I just want to share that with you and be candid that my, you know, I'm in process as well. And I hope you'll enter into that with me.

SPEAKER_03 16:16

I like that. I like that the the honesty of uh I'm developing at the same time. And so I'm trying to convey that into my courses. So I'll good gym. Really good gym. Um, let's talk about an another thing, and and I'll put the caveat that I I know I am not a licensed counselor or psychologist. Yeah, me neither. Okay, so we'll we'll put that out there. So there's a disclaimer. What so again, going back to this thing of students kind of balancing school, personal work, the whole nine yards, and thinking about, you know, what is this purpose? What is my purpose? Because we always ask them, what do you want to do after college, right? And it's usually along this academic line. And sometimes they feel pressured, they feel real a lot of pressure to perform, not only in academic settings, but they're doing this for their family. Like there's there's a lot riding on them. What is some advice on on how they can kind of take this time out reflection, rest, resetting again, around this thing of of purpose and staying focused and and finding that that that peace when there's there's challenges as a college student.

SPEAKER_00 17:34

Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, I I hear sort of two questions. And one of them, yeah, is about the the pressure of of purpose, right? We're we're maybe really familiar with the pressure around grades, you know, can I can I make the grade? Can I keep my GPA at whatever level? Um, and the way that maybe loved ones are are looking at at that performance and and sort of grading us a second time, right? And the pressure that comes with that. But yeah, now if we are integrating this this language of purpose or calling, does that itself become yet another performance, right? Well, let me let me make sure that I can articulate that for myself. And geez, that stresses me out. How do I determine that? Um and I think I think sometimes yeah, I I think it's entirely possible for um for universities and colleges to sort of make that worse. That if that if purpose or vocation becomes sort of this marketing tool, right, or something that we incorporate um into our language all over the place, uh I think that can be super positive in that it it it does create culture and it says that we are here for something more than than the grades. Um but I yeah, I do think it can create a sort of added expectation and an additional hoop to jump through. But I think that we can maybe diffuse some of that if we just understand that what this is about is a question that everyone asks naturally, right? The the why, you know, why am I doing this? Why have I come to college in the first place? Why have I chosen this major? Why am I taking these particular classes? Why am I interested in that job? Nobody has to tell us to to answer those to or rather to ask those questions. Like students are showing up with that in them already. And it may not be super explicit in their minds, it may not be something that they're sort of consciously spending a whole lot of time with, but it's in their bellies, you know. What am I what am I doing here? And I think maybe sometimes it might be useful to sort of, I don't know, like demythologize or deconstruct some of some of the language that is in our marketing materials to say, look, the this may seem like an additional thing for you, but really we're just trying to come alongside of you and accompany you in those basic human questions that we know you're asking about why am I here and and what is this for, right? So I think that I don't think ultimately that the conversation about purpose is anything that we are adding on to students' experience. I think I I think incorporating that into our institutional language is really just a recognition of what students are bringing already. And sometimes we might have a little bit of work to do to say, look, don't get hung up on the terms that we're using. We just want to walk with you around the questions that really matter to you. But then as far as rest goes and and where does that fit in, yeah, man, I'm I'm so glad that you name it because I I think it's just crucial. Um, you know, different colleges and university cultures look different from from one another, and they aren't all um, they aren't all kind of like grind culture to to the max. But I think in most places, yeah, that that some form of of pressure is there. And sometimes we can, you know, we can use pressure to our advantage. It can be it can be useful to to um to sort of help us realize our own potential. But I think if we are always imagining ourselves or grading ourselves, evaluating ourselves on some kind of performance, some kind of output, some kind of productivity, we are really reducing, really diminishing, thinning out our own humanity. You know, thinking again about the the sort of Jewish and Christian traditions that that I stand in myself, you know, in the in the very first chapters of our of our sacred scriptures, right in Genesis, there's I mean, God rests. You know, God, right? You know, on the seventh day, um. Yeah, however we understand what a day is, right? Like, like God's created all this stuff and then and then stops. And I don't think it in in God's case, it's because of you know tiredness or exhaustion or whatever, but I think there's a model there for for human beings. And if if humans are created in the image of God, um, then yeah, I think we're we're invited and sort of gently directed to like, hey, you need to stop as well, because you're you're not a robot, you're not a machine, you are not created only for what you can produce. You are also created for communion and delight and praise and curiosity and wonder and and rest. Like this is this is part of what it means to be a human person. And so I think that so many of us actually have to be rest becomes a discipline, you know. Like, do some of us deal with laziness? Sure. Like that's that's a vice that that some or maybe all of us experience, but but we're also really ego-driven, right? And we we feel that we're sort of earning our way in the world kind of thing by by what we have to show, by what we've produced, by what we've created, etc. And so I think it actually for most of us takes work to set those things aside and to say, my worth does not reside, you know, it it's not equal to the sum of of what I've naith. And I'm not gonna be well, I'm not gonna be whole if I don't build some time in where I'm not orienting myself toward those things, and I am simply resting. And and gosh, if if if we need to hear it, it is also true that even our work is going to suffer if if we don't do that, right? The the thing that we're so obsessed with, that's not gonna go well, that's gonna tank if we don't stop.

SPEAKER_03 24:09

Yeah, yeah. Good. That's again another gem dropped that things will suffer when we keep running full steam, including our own health.

SPEAKER_00 24:20

Yeah, that's true, yeah. And our our inner vitality and all of that. All of that. That's true, that's true. All right, so let's see.

SPEAKER_03 24:30

Actually, I'm gonna change it a little bit here. What what I thought I was gonna say. Yeah, I'm actually gonna go down an another path on this. Um switch. Let's talk about the faculty. So we've talked about from the student perspective. All right. How can faculty find that balance of the purpose of rejuvenating, um, of still giving their best with all of the responsibilities that they may have?

SPEAKER_00 25:08

Yeah. I I think that's such an important question, too, because you can't take a student where you haven't been, right? Like you can't lead someone to a place that you haven't experienced. And so um we have to be walking out the same values that we're trying to offer students around purpose, around rest, around balance, et cetera. Um so honestly, I think like everything that I just said and that long worry answer, right, just uh applies to to us as well, to to faculty and staff. And and I think that we need to be having conversations at the highest levels of our institutions to um to ask how how we're doing as employees, like like how is our health? Let's let's look at our our course loads, let's look at how we schedule time in in the weeks, you know, where do we put meetings? What are our expectations for when faculty and staff answer emails and how frequently and for how long they're on campus? And just what are what are the explicit and the unspoken expectations that we hold one another to? And asking really honest questions about is this producing in us the kind of flourishing um in in our community and in us individually from which we can be of real service to students, or are we seeing high levels of of burnout and exhaustion? And if we are, then the way that we think about time and the way that we think about work, it that those are going to need to change. We're going to need to get creative and say, the thing that we are really trying to do in serving these students is actually suffering, and we're not doing as good a job of that as we could because we're driving too hard, because we're not stopping, um, because we are treating ourselves as you know near near producers and not people of again curiosity and wonder and joy and communion and yeah.

SPEAKER_03 27:34

If you could give advice and I it kind of always kind of pose this, if you could give one or more little tidbits, little nuggets of advice to students when they look at this grand picture of where they are in life and where they're going. What would be some little nuggets that you would leave with it?

SPEAKER_00 27:59

Yeah. You had you had invited me to to think about three before. So I'll I'll I'll go with three. You know, I'll but I'll preface it with saying this too. Um, I am actually usually sort of quite reticent to give generalized advice because we're we're all individual, right? So students show up and say, what kind of advice would you give me about this? And I'm like, well, let's talk about you, right? And and and any counsel that I'm gonna offer, first of all, you know, filter it through your own values and your own sort of experience of life. And maybe it lands and fits and and maybe it doesn't, right? So it's it's just advice, but also can we really personalize and individualize that to your own story? But that said, we don't have that opportunity here. So if I were gonna say some broad things, I would really talk about sort of a in terms of purpose and sort of discerning that and walking that out. I think I would really counsel a posture of listening, a posture of deep attention. And and to apply that in sort of three directions. So one, and this one of these is is this is borrowing from from writers who who have been really important to me, but uh there's there's a writer named Parker Palmer who has a book called Listen to Your Life, or I'm sorry, it's Let Your Life Speak. Um, and then it's like listening for the voice of vocation. So I would say first turning that posture of listening and attention to one's own life. Can I read my own life and experience for what it tells me about the kind of person that I am? Who am I? You know, often the the question of purpose is not only a question about doing what is it that I'm supposed to do, it is also and more fundamentally a question, I'd say, I mean, they're linked, but it's a question about being. It's a question about identity. And so before asking the question of what am I to do, first asking, who am I? And what is what does my life story have to tell me about that? I actually think that an exercise of kind of drafting a little autobiography, right, can can often be really illuminating for that. And then secondly, directing that listening and sort of deep attention to to one's own world, to the communities that one is is a part of. This is kind of drawing a little bit on a writer named Frederick Biekner, who says that vocation is the place where my deep gladness meets the world's deep need. And so I think in asking those questions about purpose, it also makes it makes sense not only to ask about sort of my own identity and where does joy happen for me and where am I gifted, et cetera, but also to say, you know, what what's going on in my world? What's going on in my communities? Like where where is their need? Where does my joy and my gifting fit a fit a vacuum somewhere around me, right? Like a key in a lock, kind of sort of paying close attention to that. I've in a in a course on vocation, I've had students do a sort of needs inventory of of their community, just to kind of look around and say, is there a need somewhere that resonates for me, that speaks to me in a particular way, where there's a kind of attraction in doing that that sort of inventory? And then thirdly, directing that listening and attention to what I understand to be sacred. You know, if people have different language for this, is it is it God? Is it a particular um religious tradition? Is it is it some other form of of faith? What what what I understand to be um yeah, sacred, to to be holy in some manner of speaking, directing our attention there as well, because that draws us into a transcendent realm, something that is larger than me, and larger even than my community, and the particular moment in history that I live in, but something that is that is bigger than than all of that, and that spans time and space and the particularity of individuals, and yet is rooted in those things as well. So, yeah, attention to listening to my own life, listening to the world that I inhabit, and listening to the sacred as I understand that those are some of the places that I would yeah start.

SPEAKER_04 32:37

That's good. That's good stuff.

SPEAKER_03 32:41

Anything else that you would like to share? Anything on your your your heart today?

SPEAKER_00 32:48

Yeah, I think your questions are just covered so much ground.

SPEAKER_03 32:51

And and you went actually beyond what the what the questions were asking. And and I again this has been phenomenal, phenomenal insights to share with both students and with faculty as well. I think I think we're gonna have to come back and do something specifically for um staff and faculty in and that balance, right? Because we're we're we're out here seven days a week sometimes, but how do we find that balance? So we'll we'll talk about that.

SPEAKER_00 33:22

Yeah, it's too easy to make a plan for the path that students need to walk without kind of bringing that home and applying that in our owners. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 33:32

And it becomes modeling. So if you know how to do it, you can model that to your students as well. That's another episode. We're gonna come back to that. Okay. Um anything else before we wrap up.

SPEAKER_00 33:44

No, I'm just I'm really grateful. I love that I love that you are making this extended conversation happen around around these things, that there is that there is more than that there is more than a syllabus, that it serves these these greater purposes, these it serves human flourishing, it serves our coming alive and coming into the fullness of our identity as individuals and as communities, as a global community. Um, it's such important work. So thank you so much for inviting me into you.

SPEAKER_03 34:15

Thank you. Okay, so the very important question, because I would not be a marketing professor if I didn't ask this. Where can we find you? Can we find you on LinkedIn? Can we where can we find you and follow you?

SPEAKER_00 34:27

Yes, I am I'm on LinkedIn. Uh, I gotta tell you, and you I you might ream me out after this. I am I am not on social media. Okay, I I never have been. So but my email is um b.sammons, that's my last name, uh, at wingate.edu. People could reach out that way. Um, yeah. Come find me.

SPEAKER_03 34:49

Exactly. Well, I thank you, Dr. Ben Sammons, University Chaplain, and dot dot dot dot dot extra here at Wingett University for being on Beyond the Syllabus Pedagogy and Purpose. We thank you all for joining the conversation, and we look forward to having you next time.

SPEAKER_00 35:06

Thanks so much.