Cracking the Code: What Employers Actually Want to Hear and What Students Are Saying

Jennifer Joyner and LaToya Counts have devoted their work to helping college students navigate both personal and professional growth. LaToya Counts also extends this work through her book, 7 Step Transition from Student to Professional, her workshops, and her new tool, ForwardStack. Their guidance equips students with the self-awareness, confidence, and focus needed to step into the workforce with purpose. I was honored to have them join the conversation on “Cracking the Career Code,” where they speak directly to students about recognizing their strengths and using their unique value to stand out to employers and mentors. 

Are you a student trying to figure out how your personal talents translate into real-world career success? Don't navigate the shift alone. Listen in to learn exactly how to articulate your unique strengths into actionable career characteristics that employers notice.

As always, have a seat and join the conversation as we go Beyond the Syllabus.

 Explore episode extras and more at Behind the Mic: www.gobeyondthesyllabus.com. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

On this episode of Beyond the Syllabus, Pedagogy and Purpose. While you're sleeping, someone else is learning. They're looking even as early as freshman year. So I would employ you as students to know that the earlier you get connected and engaged with career services, the better likelihood that you will have a positive outcome.

SPEAKER_01 0:23

Welcome to Beyond the Syllabus Pedagogy and Purpose. I am your host, Dr. Tiffany Turner Henderson, and today's conversation aims to address kind of a specific problem that happens with some of our students. Like that area between the great work that they're doing in the classroom, those assignments, and then how are we showcasing this or articulating this to our employers? So sometimes the students can explain the what of an assignment, what they were supposed to do, but then they can't say, How is this impacting my learning experience? How is this impacting my toolkit when I move forward? And then more importantly, when they're in interview situations, can they say how that is going to benefit their potential employer, whether it's full-time employment or even internships? And so today I'm joined with two phenomenal women who I've known for a good period of time. And I have seen them do, again, phenomenal work with students. And so I have LaToya Counts and I have Jennifer Joyner who have dedicated their talents and time to preparing this next generation of leaders, giving of their time freely, um, to give that guidance and help students be successful in that transition. Sorry, Latoya, I'm gonna plug it in in a second, that transition from college to career. But the best way to really get to know our guests today is to help them tell their own story directly from them. So I'm gonna pause and I'm gonna let LaToya and Jennifer kind of tell you about who they are and the uh the heart behind the passion behind the work. So I'll start with Jennifer, I'll start with you and then come to LaToya.

SPEAKER_02 2:15

Awesome. Thanks so much for having me today. I'm really excited about having this conversation that's very near and dear to my heart. Um, when you talk about workforce development and young people, um, I light up. So thanks so much for inviting me to the conversation. I look forward to it today. Um, I would say just a little bit about me. So, local to the North Carolina area, um, I have vast experience. I have a great amount of corporate experience, community college experience, a little nonprofit experience, higher education experience, and all of those things have really um worked to develop my style on how I lead and how I develop other people. When I talk about my strengths, what I bring to the table, I'm uh a maximizer, someone who sees things as they can be. And um I think that's what I really enjoy about young professionals. And uh as they're going through school and matriculating, it's important for them to maximize who they are. I love relating to people. I'm very deliberate in my thought process and pattern and how I connect the dots. So, you know, my job as a workforce development professional is to be someone who is strategic, someone who can assess talent, um, see the gaps, and then fill those things. So again, um, this is my my wheelhouse, and I really enjoy working with young people to um ensure that they develop and that they're going to school for expecting a ret a rate of their return, right? Um, and I think you know, you're not just going just to get education, but what are you gonna do with it? So um I really enjoy that aspect of workforce development and um student development.

SPEAKER_01 4:04

All right, thank you. I told you they were phenomenal.

SPEAKER_00 4:07

All right, Latoya, you're up next. Hello, thank you for having me. I am LaToya Accounts. Um, I'm actually a sales coach, um, I've been a salesperson through and through. My career has always been in sales. And then um, maybe a decade or so ago, I decided that, you know, I wanted to really help students transition. And that was from me not being able to find students that could fill my sales positions. And it wasn't because they lacked experience or their resume was lacking, it was more because they could not deliver in the interview. Um, and that is where my passion began with seven steps, which is a professional development framework, um, really helping students to translate their story into a language that employers are looking for. What I realized is that a lot of students are doing more than they realize. They're solving problems, they're communicating, they're adapting to situations and creating value, but nobody has really shown them how to package that experience into what employers can immediately recognize. And that's the gap that I care deeply about. Um, I am a proud graduate of B Florida Agricultural and Mechanical University. I knew it was coming. I knew it was coming. Um, but I definitely have, like I said, I have a passion for this, excited to be here and to jump into this, into this conversation.

SPEAKER_01 5:42

All right, great, great. Um, give another little background with my relationship with um Latoya. So we were in an organization together here in in our area, and uh she started talking about what she was doing with students. And I was at another institution, and I recognized the same thing, uh, you know, that gap in the students. And I said, Latoya, do you mind coming and speaking to to my students? And she was like, sure. She came. I I think you came every year after that. And then I moved on to another university and I said, Latoya, what are you doing? Can you come? And she's always said yes and has brought 120 with her to to the workshops and and helping students understand what to do. And as before we even started recording this session, I told her I I sent a couple of students your way. So there'll probably be a few more I send your way. Absolutely. She's a game changer. She's a game changer. As I used her as well. Yeah. Exactly, exactly. Okay, so let's get into a couple of questions to kind of pick your brain on how we can, and this real conversation is really going to be dedicated to our students, right? Maybe from our undergraduate student perspective, but we're probably going to have some that are in our graduate level or maybe mid-career and and maybe they're listening and want some tips on how to move to the next level in that journey. So as you worked with students, and then more importantly, as so you worked in sales, um, but also Jennifer, working with these employers as well. What are they looking for in early talent? Is it a checkbox on their courses they've taken? What what is what is their must-haves and what are those nice haves that recruiters are looking for?

SPEAKER_00 7:36

Um for me, I think early talent, must-haves are really the fundamentals, right? It's about communication and being able to communicate, being able to be coachable as well. So a lot of times students come out of college and they're like, I don't have this skill, I don't have that skill. And sometimes the employers are like, can you be are you coachable? Like, can I coach you? Um, professionalism, I always say that, like being on time and those types of things go a long way. They go a long way. Um, so I think that you know, the must-haves and early, early talent is definitely some of those fundamental things. Um, like, can this person take direction, right? Do they work with well with others? How would they represent my organization when I come when I'm talking about the professionalism stuff? Um, the nice to haves are kind of like a polished internship, some leadership talents or titles, certifications, or you know, just your curriculum. Those are the nice to haves, but to me, they don't replace the fundamentals, right? And so those are, and that's that's what I was running into when I was recruiting, right? It's like they had these great resumes and oh, I've had four internships, um, but they couldn't communicate. They didn't have some of the fundamental things of communication. So that's what I would say on must-haves and nice haves.

SPEAKER_02 8:57

Yeah. And I would definitely agree with your list because it's exhaustive, right? In terms of what employers are looking for. And many times they understand that, you know, these uh are blank canvases, if you will, right? And they know that you have to have a certain skill set in order to come in and be willing and have that growth mindset. That, hey, I don't know it all. I need to learn, I need to fully immerse myself. So, from what I'm hearing from employers, they they're looking for that growth mindset. They're also looking for uh digital fluency and tech um capability, right? Like, we're in this age of AI, and like for productivity say, you need to know what's going on out in the marketplace, someone who is well-versed and comfortable with tools and um certain platforms. Um, not that you have to know everything, but you need to have something to get into the door because so many people do. And you know, I try to share with students that um while you're sleeping, someone else is learning. Okay, which means your studies do not stop um in 50 minutes or an hour and a half or two hours after your class starts. Someone's learning something all the time. So you have to look broader than your classroom itself. And you know, another thing in terms of critical thinking, like how well do you solve problems? Because that is why a salesperson is hiring you, a hospital is hiring you, a PR firm, a law firm. It's about problem resolution and how you critically think to solve those issues. And so uh employers are looking for those things concrete, tangible, like what can you do? What can you bring to the table? And do I see you there in that job, you know, a year from now? And have you evolved and have you grown? And can I promote you, right? So that that is what you know, a lot of the um employers are looking for. And I would say the nice to have, again, it's um, you know, they know you don't have that professional maturity that a tenured person has, but I've met some 20-year-olds and 25-year-olds that has the professional maturity of someone who's seasoned, right? Um, so you have to think about those things um that you know, you you want to be a total package, you're not gonna be total, right? But you need to bring as much to the table as possible. Um, and any employer is looking for um individuals who can come in and deliver. So, you know, if you bring it to the table, they will leverage it. Hopefully they will help you develop and grow, but it's it's important to bring those those things to the table. I I like oh, go ahead, go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 11:45

I was just just add to that. I love everything you said there, Jennifer. I think to add to that is that recruiters aren't just hiring for experience, right? They're hiring for how you think, how you work, how quickly can you create value for them? Absolutely. A lot of times you don't have to have the resume of you know, a professional, right? You can use that little part-time job you've had, or you can even use like things you've done on campus, organizations and clubs, because there's a lot in there. A lot of how you think always go on thought process. If you're able to convey that, that's exactly what they're looking for.

SPEAKER_01 12:28

I would say that one of the things that I talk about in in the classroom is how can you translate your lived experiences to the next level, right? So you have you have some student athletes and they say, I haven't had a job. I've always played a sport. Unpack the sport, right? Oh, that is a job. Unpack the sport. There's time management that's in there, there are analytical skills, just reviewing. Multitasking. Right. Multitasking, you're reviewing tapes, you know, stats, you're trying to increase your stats. There's a lot of things in there. Uh, but as you're saying, being able to articulate that in into how it's going to benefit you know this potential employer. I think I think that just took care of the other question I was going to ask, right?

SPEAKER_02 13:20

But I was saying you. One other thing, let me add to that, right? So um I think I had a um meeting with someone from like Disney or somewhere like that, some major company to kind of create internship opportunities and pipeline, right? And what stuck out um to me what that employer said was we need um students to tell a compelling story. Yeah. A compelling story. And I know you will get into um interviewing, but that communication piece to convey, articulate, to um tell that story that takes the person there, that's what it's really about. And the more you do it, the more comfortable you become. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:06

Yeah. I just want to go back to your comment about the athletes because they're actually my favorite people to coach when it comes to interviewing. Because they have so many skills that they don't recognize. Exactly. Conflict resolution is one of them. Absolutely. And they're like, they don't see it that way, but I'm like, yes, you solve conflicts all the time in this team sport, right? Um, like you said, time management, conflict resolution. Um, they how do you lose? How do you lose? It's it's analytical skills, right? That they have with you know, taking that sport. So I always tell them that sometimes hiring an athlete is gonna get you much closer because they already have skills, especially if it's a team sport. Um, they they have so many skills that they don't recognize as students. So I like to help students identify those um going into interviews.

SPEAKER_01 15:01

So it looks like we're we're looking at you know, this the skills that they have, not necessarily the box that they tick within a syllabus, right? They go beyond the syllabus, right? It is these other skills that they practice on a regular basis, both inside the classroom and outside the classroom, that is a greater benefit, probably to the employer, as you said, because you can mold that early talent to what you need. But if they're coming with the fundamentals, that's one less thing that we have to overcome. Like I can teach you the rest of our systems and how we how do you perform your role, right? Um, and now let's let's get into kind of cracking this cold. So this is a nice little segue into to this next area. So as Latoria, as you're saying, you you like to work with these student athletes because you can unpack all of these skill sets that they have that may not be tied to a discipline, right? It may not be a finance, it may not be an education thing, but it's still very valuable when it comes to this interview process. And so I know, and then I've you know I've watched you over the years go through this STAR method of interviewing, this model. Um, can you share with the audience what is this STAR method? And then what am I what am I putting in this this interview process? What am I bringing to the table? What do I need to know?

SPEAKER_00 16:20

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Uh so STAR is just a format that lots of employers use when they're doing behavior-based interviews, right? Um, and so I just like to introduce that format to students because you can use it in interviews, but you can use it all the time. It just helps you, like uh Jennifer said, tell a very compelling story where you're not missing anything. Um, and so the S stands for situation, and you're just really given the background, the history of that particular um um question, right? Um, and given like a current status. Um task is kind of what you were asked to do. And and I want to elaborate a little bit on that because students like to say task is what I did. Really? Um and so I challenge them to think of task as um how you did it, right? And then when we get to the results, you're able to tell the impact of why it mattered, right? So so I I like to kind of change their mindset there, but that's the task. Um, the most important piece in the start method is really the action. And you're talking about the behavior. So remember, we're talking about how those transferable skills, you know, look to the employer. So the behavior isn't always about what you did. If you are able to convey your thought process, so what were you thinking before you actually did whatever you did, right? And you have to be able to articulate that because that's what actually sets you apart from all the other students. Most people aren't translating their thought process. And that is, um, I think that is the key. Before you do any behavior, hey, this is what I was thinking, you know, this is why this was important, this is why this mattered. So it takes that action step to the next level. Um, and then the results, the results aren't necessarily, oh, I'm I gotta end the class and all of that. The the results are saying, hey, this is what I learned from this behavior. Because now you're connecting back to the employer, you're connecting back to that job description, you're connecting back to the skill, the transferable skill that they're looking for, and saying, hey, this is what I learned, this is why it matters, and then this is how it would show up in your organization. So I spent a lot of time on star method with students because it's so impactful. And if they can nail it, like Jennifer said, if you could tell a compelling story in that star method um format, um, that is exactly what what the employers are looking for. Um, and really setting setting yourself apart there.

SPEAKER_01 18:57

So and so, okay, uh could you give could you give like a generic example? You know, I'm gonna put you on the spot.

SPEAKER_00 19:07

Okay. Um well, let me give you this. So in let me let me let me start start with this. So I do have an app coming out called Forward Stack. Okay. Tell us more. Tell us more. Yes, so it's the operating system for what's next. And it's really helping students, like Zenfra said, um, be in the mindset, the right mindset in um going into an interview. So think of it as an interview tool, a translation tool that helps students convert classroom experiences, campus leadership, part-time jobs, everyday responsibilities into professional language. So it's gonna give them a repeatable system for turning experience into like signals that employers are looking for. So I'll give you an example. So instead of saying I worked on a group project, right? A student can say, hey, in this semester long marketing project, marketing for you. Our team presented a campaign strategy for a real brand. I took ownership of that customer insight section, I gathered and analyzed data, I restructured our recommendations so it was easier to understand. And this is why I did that, right? So they would say, hey, I this was important to me because of this. Um and so, and then they give the result. Okay, as a result, our team earned, you know, this, but more importantly, I learned how to turn information into clear recommendations for an audience, right? So that's just a sample, and that's me kind of, you know, putting trying to put my marketing spin on it. But um, but but that's the that's the four stack, you know, model is that how do we basically how how do we convey or translate this marketing project? Not just I worked on a group project, but what did you do? Why was it important, right? And then what did you learn from it that's gonna connect to the employer?

SPEAKER_01 21:07

Does that help? That does, that does, because sometimes when you you share this with the students and they're like, Oh, well, I don't know. Well, and then you say, Well, talk about a project that you did in the classroom. You know, you have a at least a group project for me, and they're like, Oh, yeah, I guess I can take that. But again, looking at what did you learn from it and that rationale, you know, what was the rationale you use? Because again, as an employer, I'm like, if you're if you're coming into a situation and you have to make a decision with the group, how are you going to proceed with this? Can I trust your judgment and evaluation? And by just sharing that story, I can see through it. And then what did you learn from it? I'll I learned that maybe I need to increase you know my knowledge of this particular skill. Maybe I didn't collaborate the way. And a lot of students think I have to give them this perfect story. Right, that everything came out roses, and that's not always the case.

SPEAKER_02 22:06

It's really about what you what you learn in the process, and it shows them how methodical you can be, right? Um, it again goes back to that whole critical thinking um and how you approach problems. Again, approach, resolve, solve problems or what employers are looking for across all industry.

SPEAKER_01 22:28

Yep, absolutely. I agree. So we we have all of this support, right? So we're gonna have the app, we're gonna come back to the app again. Um, we have the app, we have the workshops from Latoya, Jennifer. We we come to the career services office. Please come in but hold on. As students, we come in the last semester of our senior year and help me find a job. I have an interview in two hours, type of thing. Oh wow, we have plenty of time, right? Yeah, right, right, right. So we want the students to use resources earlier, and at the same time, we want this connection between career development, career services, and what's happening in the classroom, so we can plant these little seeds early about how to prepare these stories for interviews to talk about you know the impact and not just the task. And so um in in an earlier episode, I had um Dr. Mary Jordan, who is our uh career services director um at my institution, and she talked about planting seeds early for this beautiful bouquet of student successes. I don't, that's not the exact quote, but close enough. Um, so how can we encourage students to use resources earlier, right? Not just from one department or one division in the university, but how can we work together between classroom and career services to help them start to formulate these stories to use in these behavioral interviews?

SPEAKER_02 24:13

Oh, awesome. It's a great question. It's the million-dollar question. And and I would say um if there was a $50 bill laying on the table, would you leave it there? Or would you look at it year after year after year, right? And the answer is no, right? You as students um pay for tuition. You it is a service that you are have already paid for and you're not taking full advantage of it. So I like it to look at it in terms of economics and why would you leave resources or money on the table just because you think you can and you have time? And the answer is no, you don't have time. Because when employers are now, they're looking even as early as freshman year. I've read some reports that they're looking at high school students of helping to develop their pipeline of talent. So I would employ you as students to know that the earlier you get connected and engaged with career services, the better likelihood that you will have a positive outcome. I have students uh coming in every day, um seniors, wasted opportunity from your freshman year because sometimes some some employers now are looking, corporate employers are looking at freshmen or second semester freshmen because they're looking earlier and earlier. Um so I would say, you know, it's really important for students to identify what you want to do or what you don't even know you want to do, career services will help do that career exploration. Many times you've like, oh, I don't want to do that. How do you know if you've never done it before? Right? That's true. I would say start earlier and earlier. Get to know those individuals because I will tell you if I know you or somebody on the staff knows you, and an employer calls and they're looking for an intern, uh, marketing. If they know me, guess what? They can help me get ready for that opportunity or float my name out there. So it's about building relationships. And and and I failed to mention this earlier, like what employers are looking for. They're looking for you to be able to build employ um relationships, right? Earlier and earlier. And that's one of the first uh relationships that you can foster on campus that will help, you know, set you up for success in the future. And I will say, you know, when I look at the classroom component into career, um, it's not, you know, um one single way, right? But I think it's important for you to develop relationships and for an ongoing dialogue and discussion with employer partners who want to give back to students. Uh, when I tell you I have no shortage of employers that want to get on campus because they had someone who invested in them and many of them want to give back. So it's not really hard finding um employers that want to come and share information. So it should be a part of the curriculum. It should be working closely with um the deans, uh, because if the deans bless it, guess what? The foot faculty will, you know, toe the line and they'll be a part of that conversation. And making sure that that you have employers that can bring some depth to share with the students, some lessons learned to say, hey, you know, I was like you. And you know, many times if you what they say, if you can see it, you can be it. We have to fully immerse students into those um opportunities, um, even from a diversity standpoint, even from a gender perspective, right? Orientation. People, students have to, you know, really, really, really um immerse themselves in that type of curriculum where the the faculty see how important it is. And it's important for faculty to know am I current? Am I relevant? Or is this outdated and I don't even need to touch this, right? I need to be focusing on EQ, I need EQ, like different aspects. Um it's important for employers and for faculty and the universities to have that partnership because it's not either or it's both. So I think oh sorry, go ahead, go ahead. No, I was gonna say, in terms of like um those connections and but it's also assessments, right? It's also um students doing podcasts and listening to podcasts, listening to master classes for them to know what their personal strengths are. Strength finders, I love that, right? Personality assessments. It's really about discovering yourself so you can discover what I'm really good at or what I need some help with. And employers, mentors, people in the industry who are subject matter experts can help you delve into that and almost like help you fast forward or cut the line because you've learned from their experiences. And therefore you can be uh, you know, light years ahead of where your peers are.

SPEAKER_01 29:28

So I have a question for you. Are you finding because you talk about um this partnership between employers, industry, and the university itself? And sometimes we have the guest speaker that comes in, right? And it's just kind of like they're here, they share their knowledge, and they don't know much and they're on the on they're on their way, right? Um absolutely. So and uh just as faculty, like how can we move toward or or what is that relationship that we can build with these employers more than just the guest speaker for today, but we have these deeper relationships that they're that they can work closely with students and then also to inform faculty because some of us are are years removed from industry. Like, how do we forge those type of relationships? What have you seen happen or or ideas of how we can make those deeper relationships in the classroom?

SPEAKER_02 30:27

I I've noticed that you know several institutions have like advisory boards, right? Advisory boards for me are like key because they're not only bringing their time, but they're bringing their treasure um to you know the table. And I think many times, you know, if it's just a talk, right, that's not gonna last long. It's about the relationship you build with them and know what their areas of expertise are. Um they could come in, um, share that information, but also be a resource. And um not just you know, once a semester, you they come, but it could be ongoing because that's where the relationships develop and the richness develops. Even if, you know, and I always encourage my students to um get their LinkedIn information. Um if they're looking for a mentor, hey, this might be a great person for you to mentor, uh, get mentored by. This person can also give you podcasts to listen to. This person can also, you know, invite you to different like meetups, uh, industry meetups or groups that you might want to be a part of to increase your your your footprint in that industry. They can help open your eyes to a lot of things that you probably never would have imagined just in one conversation. So it's not just like, you know, wham bam, thank you, ma'am, like hit it quit. No, it's developing a strategic working relationship that can follow you for the rest of your life, right? It goes back to that whole adage, you you never get a second chance to make a first impression, which is very true. Um, and research shows that, you know, you have about five seconds to make an impression. Like that's who they're gonna think you are for the rest of you know their life until you prove them wrong. It takes you, I don't know how many times to prove them wrong. But, you know, they might see that spark in your eye that they had, and guess what? That person can be an advocate, be at the table, and you know, say your name when um you're not in the room. So that is why it's important when you think about classroom to career and employ your partners and those individuals who have the ability to change the trajectory of a student's life, but also of a faculty member, board tier, right? You there could be opportunities in resident where you know you can swap places. Um, but again, you have to do the ask, right? Uh, if you do the ask, then the worst thing they can say is no. Um, but many times they see this this is very beneficial, not only for their development, for their organization, but for them in as individuals. So this the opportunities are are are really limitless.

SPEAKER_00 33:22

Can I can I add to that? Yes, please, please. I think the shift starts. I agree with everything Jennifer said, definitely starts when we stop treating career readiness as an extra, right? And like actually incorporating it, right? So um, how do we turn coursework into evidence, not just a grade, right? Um, what professional behaviors does the coursework actually reveal? And so for me, when I think about this and you know, really connecting it to um the app, right, the forward stack, is more so about understanding the human, it starts with the human stack, and that's all about communication and professionalism. So when we're in the courses, like when, you know, when students are taking courses, you know, how are they? Are they self-aware, right? Because some of that stuff can start right there in the classroom. Are they bringing that professionalism? And I know in your marketing course, right, they're they're required to show up as if they are in a marketing environment, right? Exactly. And so that's so important. Um, next is more so like the skill piece. So it's it's more about what you can do. Um, and you know, and then connecting that, like Jennifer said, connecting that to the to the employer piece, but really the final piece is the translation of telling that story to the employer. So not just I took this class, but here's the evidence of the coursework. It wasn't just the grade, right?

SPEAKER_02 34:52

Here's my portfolio that I developed.

SPEAKER_00 34:54

Exactly. Yeah, exactly. One guest speaker at the end, like, you know, kind of imagine it more so in a model or assignment where students can reflect on the skills they use, identify value, uh, and then practice speaking it, even using the star, right? So that's how you really turn the syllabus into more of a career prep tool, because you're grabbing all of the everything they're learning in that curriculum from the actual course, you know, actually, you know, being able for them to translate that into skills, and now we're speaking in the star method straight from the syllabus, right? That's how that becomes career prep.

SPEAKER_02 35:36

And and you're amplifying their voice, right? I remember um someone had reached out and said, Hey, you know, I'm a um a marketing agency and I want to come and talk to your students. I'm like, absolutely, I would love for you to come. They came um and I I did a panel. So I had them to bring like uh various departments within the marketing firm. And I'll share you the name uh later so you could maybe reach out to, right?

SPEAKER_01 36:03

Okay, thank you.

SPEAKER_02 36:04

Um and they came, they did a panel, they bought five or six people, they bought some marketing swag. I had a round table. That's how we started the relationship. Two years in, they was like, Well, hey, I said, would you ever consider doing maybe a case study? And they was like, Absolutely, we'd love to do a case study. So they came in, gave us a case study, and the case study was an actual client. The actual client was a major, major um fast food chain in this area, and they had to help um um roll out uh wings. So I'm telling you, something that just started as a speaker, then we got the dean um involved, then we got the marketing professor involved, then they start building you know relationships and hopknobbing, and we went over there and tested tested the products, and the students enjoyed it. Then the faculty started telling other faculty, and they're like, hey, how can I get in on this, right? So that's how you're creating the culture that is about experiential learning, and everybody can convene and make it even so much better. We ended up having a competition where we invited other students. The other students came, you know, and the of course the the um fast food chain, they um actually, you know, did all of the tally and votes and stuff like that, but everybody had a say. And and again, they had an opportunity to present out, do the research. That was a star, unlike anything that they could have had just by meeting someone the first time. And you know, we had a winning team and they got bragging rights and they got some money for it too, right? And and it spotlight the university um to show that's the kind of partnerships, not just superficial, but really, really deep relationships.

SPEAKER_01 37:59

Those deep relationships. And I was gonna go, I was gonna go left field. I'm gonna try to go left field. If if we don't want to go left field, just let me know. We can go. Okay, because Jennifer, you you started talking about you know these deeper relationships and having the advisory councils and and and case competitions. Um, I I'm gonna turn a little bit from that. So we talked about this interview process and and Latoya, you can work with me on this one. So, what if I am not ready for an interview? Maybe I'm not looking for that. What if I'm looking for a mentor or a shadowing opportunity? How do I go about that? Oh, yeah. I know that that that that wasn't that wasn't originally a topic, but I when you said that, I thought about that. What about those students who are not looking for that, but they're looking for some type of exposure, and they need someone that will help them maybe with their social capital so that they can learn more about the skills they will they will need individually.

SPEAKER_02 39:03

And I think that's why it's so important to go to career services early, sooner rather than later, right? It's like, oh, you know, I don't get ready, I stay ready. But in order to stay ready, you got to get ready, right? So do you have a polished resume, right? Do you have an elevator pitch? How are you well versed in star, right? Those are the things, the preliminary things that are the must-haves to get you to uh to to the point where you're actually getting these opportunities. So we we want to develop you. We don't want to just throw you in and then hope you swim. No, we we're teaching you how to swim, right? And so I think it's really important for uh students um to know that there is prep work that has to be done in order to show up and show what you're capable of doing. And um, you know, many times I'm uh I'm talking to freshman, like, do you have a resume? I say eight times out of 10, they say no, they don't have a resume, right? And my lot, my eyes light up. I'm like, well, you're in the right place, right? And even for the two that might have them, oh, you're in the right place to even make it better. It's the living, breathing document that will continue to follow you for the next 60 years while you're working, right? Um, things don't change, they might evolve and and like you know, fall off, but they they won't change. So I think it's important for students to know that you have to put in that work, and that's not gonna happen by chance. It's gonna be uh happen because you're disciplined um and that you really um are really serious about creating opportunities that will um help shape the rest of your life.

SPEAKER_00 40:46

So go ahead, go ahead.

SPEAKER_02 40:48

No, no, no.

SPEAKER_00 40:49

Are you done? I don't want to hear that. Yeah, uh-huh. Okay. Um I want to add to that because I want students to remember that experience is broader than employment, right? So you don't have to wait for someone to give you a title before your skills are real, right? So you've solved problems, manage priorities, you've balanced school and work, you've done some research, you've improved something, you've taken some initiative, you already have experience. Volunteer work. Yeah. So the issue usually isn't that students have no experience, right? It's that they've never been taught how to recognize it, organize it, communicate it. And I think that's right. Yeah, and I think that's the hidden curriculum, and that's why you know it's so important for them to understand that talent is often present before language. And they because they have it. So it they don't need to become someone else. And like you said, to even like, oh, I'm not interviewing, I'm not doing this, but you you you have it already. You just don't have the language, right? So it's just like a better framework for understanding and how to express who they already are. Um, I told a student the other day, oh, I'm gonna mess this up, right? Because it was so good when I said it. Um, you are probably more qualified than you sound. And that's the translation problem, not the talent problem. Oh wow, yeah, that's good. Right? So when because think about it, like you said, I'm not ready, I'm not this, and so they're limiting themselves. And so that's the peptop that they need, and it's not a talent issue most of the time, right? And you're just like, oh, they gotta get ready to stay ready. Yes, I agree. There is some prep that means there, because you got to translate that, right? Absolutely. Yeah, you might be the top in your class, you might be the campus president, S G A. You have all of these things, but you haven't translated that yet. So it's not a talent problem at all.

SPEAKER_01 43:03

I love all these little gems, they're becoming highlights for the teaser for this episode. Thank you. You make my job a little easier. Teamwork. All right, exactly, exactly. All right, so let's see, we'll wind down a little bit here. Um, so before we kind of close out this session, I want to give our listeners, and like I said, more than likely it's going to be students or those who are gonna share this with students, um, something that they can immediately um start like cracking this code of of here's my talent and how I'm our how I am articulating this um to others. So, what is the one thing? Could be more, but the one thing that you want students to remember um when they feel like they don't have that real world experience, what is their Their inspiration, what is that reminder?

SPEAKER_02 44:04

Yeah. Um, I I would say um professional journaling. Okay. Um, I think that's important because it starts training your brain to see opportunities, right, for problem solving. Um, and even when you know you look at a job description, it has um criteria, what they're looking for, right? And I think it's important for you to have a lead leadership star, a uh problem resolution star, um, a difficult client or turning things around star, right? So if you start like journaling, like, oh, this would be a great story to tell of how I solved a problem, then when it's time for you to interview or for you to get comfortable, like I always tell students, like, nobody knows you better than you, right? And when you know you and you know the things that happened to you, you can tell a story better than anybody else can, right? So by you jotting things down, and and I have hundreds of stars over the years that I've written down and say, oh gosh, this is great. Like I solved the hell hell out of that problem, right? Right. Um, but I think it's important for students to start thinking that way because that's when employers are going to ask you, you know, the situation, your task, your action, and your result. And your results should always be meaningful or impactful. Is it always going to be positive? You find a span of ways to frame that. So it can be a positive. As a result, I learned to never do that again, right? Again, it's about how you frame things. But I think professional journaling helps you get that confidence. And I think a lot of employers look for confidence, right? And the more you know your stuff, the more confident you are. And you know, employers can like sense it a mile away if you're like kind of unsure or you're not sure about what you really did, you can't convey it that way. Guess what? That they're gonna see it, they're gonna sniff it and smell it, and it's like, okay, that person lacks confidence. And confidence is something that does not happen overnight, but something that you develop, you know, during your time at university.

SPEAKER_00 46:22

And I'm gonna build right on that with the confidence piece and and more so on we talked about it earlier on shadowing and truly, you know, taking time so you don't have the real world experience, but I literally help students craft a and draft a um a shadowing letter to to companies just saying, hey, I think I'm interested. I'm not sure. Do you mind if I, you know, come shadow somebody for an hour or two just to see that? Because sometimes reading a job description doesn't really tell you what that job does, right? Exactly. And um, so so sometimes you need some real experience or real um, you know, exposure to some of these industries before you decide you want to actually do that. So um, and that's gonna build your confidence. So if you say you got a shadow day with two or three companies in the same industry, now you're very confident in talking to anybody, any recruiter in that energy in that industry. So I just want to add on to what Jennifer said is you know, just add that piece on professional um journaling is I think it's really good. And then take it a step further and you know, try to get into some of the organizations or just you know, firms that you think you're interested in. Um an hour will show you a lot. You you don't even need all day. Six minutes is gonna show you a lot of what they're doing, and you can see those skills and how it plays out in their day-to-day tasks.

SPEAKER_02 47:50

And keep an open mind. Like you might find that you had no idea that was something that you thought you would really enjoy doing, right?

SPEAKER_01 48:00

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 48:01

Like you got to keep an open mind because there's so many um like job opportunities or careers that didn't even exist six months ago or before COVID. Yeah, now things are totally shifted, and you have to to to be flexible and agile, and that's uh, you know, the very like important things to have as well, because if you get thrown off your game for uh with something like small, you know, you might crumble. But if you are used to being flexible and and nimble and pivoting, you know, that will save you a a lot of you know stress and heartache uh throughout your career. And you you need to learn that lesson early. Like everything is not gonna be smoothly laid out for you, you know, generations. Like, you know, so those things are really key as um students are looking to see how they can, you know, um successfully maneuver the landmarks or employment.

SPEAKER_01 48:59

All right, so we have professional journaling, right? We have to write the vision and make it plain that you can remember, you know, these these activities when it's time to uh implement the star method. Um and then taking the time to learn more about that possible career path by shadowing, you know, someone or going to a company and seeing if this is really what you think it is, right? Um, and then I'm just kind of re-recapping and then just being flexible. And I think that's one thing I share with students as they begin looking for job opportunities and they're looking for a specific name in the title or a specific name in the company. And I always tell them it's a business. The business is going to incorporate all of our disciplines within our department. It's a business. They're going to need someone, right? So go beyond that. It doesn't have this specific title you're looking for, that flexibility, right? Um, we had a career fair in the fall, and some students say, I don't, I don't know if this is for me. I'm just like, is it a business? Well, yes, yes, they're gonna need you and your skills in that business. You know, I I'm only talking from the business perspective, but it's a business, right? Um, so being flexible and thinking maybe I'm not going to work for this ad agency, maybe I'm working for the school system. There's a whole communications and marketing department in a school system. And it was like a light bulb moment for some. Oh, yeah. Oh, I didn't think about that. Yes. Opportunities are there. You just have to look beyond what you set as being the standard of a job title for you.

unknown 50:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 50:45

All right.

SPEAKER_02 50:46

So I always say like your degree is just um an entry, right? That can get you in the door. But your skill set, those transferable skills, you can do anything. You have people who are opera uh opera majors who are now CEOs of banks, right? So that's just a a precursor to you know, you finishing something, but what skills do you bring to an industry that you didn't think that was, you know, was an option for you? So students have to think bigger and broader and not just linear and narrow in their scope.

SPEAKER_01 51:25

So I have one more question for you. What is we we talked about journaling, shadowing, flexibility. Okay, so those are more than more than one item for them to remember. Um, what is maybe one action that they can take the today or tomorrow that helps them to make this alignment between what they're learning on campus, right? Whether that's in the classroom or through sports or through student organizations, what's that one action item they can do right away that adds to their professional story?

SPEAKER_00 52:03

I would say if they could take just the most recent assignment and run it through like a quick, I call it four steps, right? What was the assignment? What skills did you actually use? Um, what challenge did you overcome, or what decision did you have to make? And then why it mattered, right? Because what was the result, the takeaway? And then take those and create a compelling story, like we started out with. Um and then I feel like that is if you could do that with everyday assignment, everyday things, you're gonna start to connect the dots. You're gonna start to connect the dots between a basic assignment that you're like, I just gotta turn this report in. Now you're connecting the dots to what skill did you actually use to get this assignment done? And you don't have to think on a broad scale, right? It could be something very simple. I just I have to analyze some data. That's a skill set, right? Um, and you take that, and then now you're turning it into a star story. Um, so I I know I use that, I think you use the example of I wrote a paper. You analyze some resources, you built a clear argument, you probably managed a deadline, right? Hopefully they did, and you and you presented some recommendations based on evidence. Those are all skills. That's the beginning of a professional story, right there, right? Name the task, the skill, whatever signal is, connect it back to the value. So it really is a habit that can change how a student interviews, how they network, how they write their resumes, and even how others see them, right? Because now you're talking in this professional story, and you're not just saying, I did an assignment, I turned my report in, right? Now you're saying, hey, I managed a deadline. I presented, you know, some um recommended recommendations um based on evidence that I found, right? Now you're talking in different language. So my one action is pick one assignment that you've done or one assignment that you had this week. Write it down. What did you do? What skills did you prove or use? And then why it matters and why would it matter in the workplace? And connect that and now and just start doing that. Just do it with one assignment now. But if you do it more often, you're able to connect your assignments to your skills to what's actually expected from employers.

SPEAKER_02 54:50

I would say the the what I would have the student to do is I think access and exposure are really key. We're talking about experiential learning opportunities, and I think it's important for students not to take uh anything at face value. They need to do their own research. Okay. And I think it's important for them to research, for them to cross-reference, for them to Google, for them to AI it, for them to listen and listen to different vantage points and um personalities before they develop their own, you know, um, develop, develop their own, but then just kind of make sure that they are like cross-referencing. Um, so they don't have just flat a multi-dimensional approach to their development, right? Um, so keeping that in mind, I would um ask them to join some type of professional group. Whether it's like uh if you're an accounting major, you you find an accounting group that you can go in. They love students, and many times they will let students join for free, right? Therefore, you're like uh increasing your social uh network, right? You're learning jargon or um verbiage or um business acumen from that respective area, you're meeting people, you're attending events, they're talking about things that are relevant to that industry, you're learning things that probably your professors haven't even touched yet because they don't know that there's something new coming down the pipeline. So I would, you know, even if it's a podcast or even if it's a um newsletter group, right? Make sure that they're getting access to things that they might not be getting in the classroom. And that's incumbent upon them. Not, you know, the teacher, faculty spoon feeding them, but a quest for knowledge so they will become lifelong learners. And that right there could be the difference between, you know, somebody who, you know, has a one or two opportunity and someone who has 10 opportunities. It's well within their reach to be able um to develop those types of relationships within small group settings like that. You know, some might have um as few as five or 10 people, but then you might have larger groups that have a hundred, like you have greater opportunity. So I think, you know, I would say, you know, join a professional group and cross-reverence and check everything and don't take anything at face value, do their own research.

SPEAKER_01 57:24

Oh, that's that's value, especially in our our time of AI. Yeah. Check it out.

SPEAKER_02 57:29

That don't even make sense. Always verify. Yes, yes, yes, yes.

SPEAKER_01 57:36

All right. Well, ladies, I thank you again for for joining me in this conversation today. I we talked about a couple more things. They gave me some ideas of some other episodes. So, you know, just be ready, right? Be ready. I'm gonna probably call you back for some more things. Um, so where can we find you if we want to continue this conversation outside of the podcast?

SPEAKER_02 58:02

Absolutely. I think from a professional standpoint, I always lead students to follow me on LinkedIn, um, become a connection. Um, I try to communicate frequently and often there. Um, my contact information is there, my email address is there. Um, that's just one way I think that students can always have immediate access. And I've given it out to students that even didn't even go to the university uh I was working at. Um, and I've built a lot of professional networks um through that channel. So, you know, employers spend a lot of money on the tool. So make sure you're you're leveraging it, creating opportunities for yourself and staying in the know. So, Jennifer joiner on LinkedIn. All right.

SPEAKER_00 58:49

Yeah, and I would say the same. You can find me with Latoy accounts on LinkedIn. Um, I can also have a website, seven Step Transition, where you can see all the workshops that I have and more information on the forward stack app that's coming out as well. So coming soon there. But yeah, sevensteptransition.com. That's the number seven steptransition.com. How do you spell forward step? Forward stack. So just forward F-O-R-W-A-R-D stack. So it's called Forward Stack. All right. The operating system for what's next. So basically helping you just come up with what's next.

SPEAKER_01 59:25

All right. We're gonna put all these links in the description of the podcast as well. And on the website, we're gonna have all this information. So make sure you're writing it down as you're listening to the podcast. But they will be in the description, the links will be in the description, and it'll also be on the website for beyond the syllabus pedagogyandpurpose.com. Or go beyond. I'm sorry, go beyond the syllabus.com. All right. So, ladies, thank you again for being here, and this will conclude this conversation of Beyond the Syllabus Pedagog Pedagogy and Purpose. Oh gosh, I'm tongue-tied at the at the end. Um, we look forward to seeing you next time. Awesome, awesome. Thank you so much. Thank you for joining us on Beyond the Syllabus Pedagogy and Purpose. Today's conversation is a reminder that growth, leadership, and learning don't end when the class does, they evolve through experience, reflection, and intentional action. If this episode resonated with you, I encourage you to reflect on what stood out most and how it connects to your own journey beyond the syllabus. Be sure to subscribe, share this episode with someone who could benefit from the conversation, and continue engaging with us as we explore what it really means to learn and lead in the real world. Until next time, I'm Dr. Tiffany Turner Henderson, and this is Beyond the Syllabus Pedagogy and Purpose.