E17 • History of music: The Restoration of Roman Catholic Liturgy

This episode leaves the direct analysis of melodies and turns to the nineteenth-century recovery of Gregorian chant. At its centre stands Dom Prosper Guéranger and Solesmes Abbey, presented as decisive in restoring both Roman liturgy and Roman chant after a long period of decline, which drives further more than a musicological school or study: a living tradition, one that joins scholarship, liturgy, theology, and spiritual discipline in a single vision. The conversation frames that work not as nostalgia, but as a broad spiritual, theological, and cultural renewal rooted in Romanitas: noble simplicity, doctrinal unity, universality, and fidelity to the Roman Church, all embodied in chant. The result is a compelling defence of tradition as something alive rather than museum-like. It is one of the most important historical episodes in the series.

Content

• The episode centres on Dom Prosper Guéranger and Solesmes.
• Chant restoration is linked to Roman liturgical renewal. ‘Romanitas’ is a note of the catholic Church, noble, unified, and universal.
• Manuscript research served a living tradition, not a museum project. The Solesmes method is valued as a spiritual and practical inheritance.
• Latin word-rhythm guide Gregorian melody.
• Gregorian chant is made for the faithful who pray.
  
  

Guests

• Canon Amaury Montjean
• Canon Gwenaël Cristofoli

Sponsors

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• ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠University of Lancashire⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
• ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Institute of Christ the King Sovereign Priest⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

External Links

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:05

Welcome to Beyond the Spire, a podcast of the Save Our Secrets Project here in Preston at the Catholic Shrine of St. Wahburg, supported by the National Lottery. In each episode, we go beyond what you see from the street. We explore the story and the sound of Gregory and chant the Church's own voice so that this treasure of faith and culture is not just preserved, but lived and loved again. I am Canon Bernens. Whether you are a musician, a member of a parish choir, or simply someone curious about the Catholic faith heritage, you came to the right place. Let's begin. In the previous episode, we talked about Renaissance and all that came with that, humanism and Baroque era. So the Gregoan chant has faded out. But now we are in the 19th century, and a certain abbe, Solemn Abbe, is willing to restore the Roman sacred liturgy as well as the Gregory Enchant. Welcome back, Canon Christopher Leonard Monjon. Thank you for joining us.

SPEAKER_00 1:23

Yes, nice to be with you in the studio. It's fantastic, and this project is so good. We are very grateful to the lottery also to give us uh this support.

SPEAKER_02 1:33

I suppose you you know something about monastic life because we heard you on the previous episode for uh the Cluny part and the the daily life of a monk, but now is a monk of the 19th century the same monk than the one in the 10th century.

SPEAKER_00 1:55

I would say there is a transition because uh on the continent, uh and especially uh in France, they experienced uh a hard time called the revolution. And the monastic life was um was just disappeared from France, and also because of Bonaparte, uh, generally also, and Josephism, generally also uh in the in Europe generally. So uh we have to wait uh this the first half of the 19th century to see a prominent figure. But I think Canon Mojan, you could say a bit about Abe Don Prosper Granger and introduced him, but he is someone fundamental uh to understand Solem Solem spirituality and solemn method of Gregorian.

SPEAKER_01 2:41

Yeah, I mean I'm I'm not an absolute expert on that, but uh we've been sort of bathed into the Solemn uh Reformation and the work of Don Prosper Guerranger, who is the abbot of the Solem in the second part of the uh 19th century. And he uh uh I believe we can't really uh envisage the the the renewal of the Gregorian chant in the eyes of and uh of uh or the intuition of of Don Prosper-Geranger without uh the link with the his his his masterpiece uh reformation works or liturgical works and writings, they have to go together. So when he writes the works of the liturgy, he's got the Gauguinchant uh uh uh renewal uh in mind. That's my perception, but I can be wrong. Do you mean the liturgical year? Or yeah. Yeah, when he writes the liturgical year, it's much based on yes, yeah, the liturgical year. So it's much based on the the melody and the uh and and the spiritual understanding of the liturgical year and each feast day, whether the sanctuary or the temporal, uh, has is based on on this kind of of uh uh approach of the Gregorian chance as well. They they are sort of linked together.

SPEAKER_00 4:08

Don Gueron has been very brave also because at the beginning of his ministry he was first uh a secular priest and then uh uh went to Solem to refund the abbey. The abbey was just ruins after the revolution, and uh he faced a lot of uh hostility from part of the bishops and especially the bishop of Le Mans, but not only him, because uh they were not very favorable to this renaissance of Gregorian, and there were a lot of local customs, a lot of call on the continent in France particularly, called Gallicanism. And so the the spirit was not very Roman and not very open to this work of Dongueranger, but he he maintained his work with a lot of um faith and hope. So we can also admire him for this reason.

SPEAKER_01 4:57

So the he he sort of implements and reassume uh uh the treasure of the true romanitas, and this is the core of the of the vision of Don Prosper Guerranger, not a personal vision, of course, but his genius is there. Is is he assumes the Romanitas in its fullness, in the full extent of it, from the the use, the the abandoned and the and the massive use of the fathers of the church, of the patristic in his commentaries, the use of the Gregorian chant as the chant of the Roman church, and also the renewal in theology when he assumes St. Thomas Aquinas and the mystic uh renewal in theology in the 19th century, so in the eyes of Prosper Kerranger, is also the expression of the Romanitas theologically, spiritually, and aesthetically.

SPEAKER_02 5:54

Can you say a word to describe or define Romanitas?

SPEAKER_00 6:00

Romanitas embrace uh it's very incarnated, I would say. First, it's if you don't know the holy city of Rome and all its uh history, and uh you know having this feeling to visit the major basilics, and uh uh it's something very tangible, Romanitas, but it's also a theology and a spirituality. But um, I think being at the school of uh Abebertho, uh who was a famous theologian uh of the last century, uh if you go to this school, you need first to have this vision of Rome as a city full of its uh transmission of faith and also inheriting the spirit of the former empire. So it's a bit of uh all these different aspects, but romanitas is uh a bit of um all these concepts together, I would say. Um the best point to understand the Romanitas is perhaps during Lent, as we produce this podcast during Lent, because every day you have a station, that means you travel from a church to another, you start with St. Sabina on Ash Wednesday, and you finish, of course, with uh St. Peter, and you go through all these churches so during Lent, and you discover uh the whole holy city with its martyrs, its uh traditions and uh and the spirituality, which is as the Roman Empire, something universal. Absolutely, absolutely. I should have started that with that.

SPEAKER_01 7:39

Yes, uh thorough unity in the theology and the law, and this is probably the fundamental things, uh aspect of the Romanitas.

SPEAKER_02 7:50

So when Don Guerranger and his um successors um worked on Gregory and Shint, they had all the spirits in mind. So they wanted to purify the actual melodies and and and manuscripts and printing, maybe well, everything they had, the assets purify from any corruption, any addition unnecessary, unnecessary and and opposed to that Roman um simplicity.

SPEAKER_00 8:31

They start, you know, collecting all the manuscripts from everywhere, and it's it was a huge work we call paleography. Um they they had they they worked in this library of Solemn very hard to try to reconstitute from all these manuscripts an original version, but together giving the Romanitas a spirit on it.

SPEAKER_02 8:54

So they gathered manuscripts from everywhere in the maybe western part of Europe during 40 years.

SPEAKER_00 9:02

Yes, it is.

SPEAKER_01 9:04

And they would sort of publish some critical uh uh some critical editions editions, yes.

SPEAKER_02 9:10

So we this is the work of Dompotier, I guess.

SPEAKER_01 9:13

Yes, I think this is the that's the that's the the the first step. And then it's like everything they had to find the right balance because you can't just go in this direction, which is a cut uh uh uh historical point of view. Yeah, but it's but it's it's it's living. So the the the the the uh the input of Solerne of Don Guerranger and his successors like Don Potier and uh Don Mocrou and Don Gajard, the the the input is that they had a uh um a clear and a loving uh approach of the tradition. Because the Gregorian chant is is is living. So if we go too far into the historical uh and the the critical transitions, it's great to find out what what you come what comes from the past, but you need to reassume that to put that into uh a simple living expression of tradition.

SPEAKER_00 10:14

And that's why the work of Solem is not just a fashion of the 19th century. Uh it could have been, because in the 19th century, with all the movement of Gothic revival, the troubadour style in the cathedrals and whatever, uh, the work of Violet Le Duc or whatever, Gregor Nichon, who would be very um like matching the period, but it's not the case, it's over all this romantism. It's not it's not a full recreation, uh it has also um a very special inputs uh coming from the long uh tradition of the church.

SPEAKER_01 10:52

There's a sort of a tendency to go back into the past, which is not a problem for us. But what we have to do is to reassume that into the presence. So uh so that agregorian chant becomes not just uh uh a topic for uh for university students in history. We need to make sure that agregorian chant is not a past and buried treasure, but a uh a present and living chant which unites us to the the actual present uh uh and the the unceasing present of the of the chant of the angels. This is how it how it works at all times, so it cannot be stained by time.

SPEAKER_02 11:35

So it's not just a study, it's not just historical or chronological um gathering, it's not just even music, it is something um more complex, and you you have with Don Guerranger a like a holistic view of the Roman liturgy restoration that leads to uh uh living prayer, yeah, which is Greg Ranchan, not just something from ages, not just something interesting for students, and not just something interesting for romanticism.

SPEAKER_00 12:16

Absolutely, and that's the genius of Solemn of Dongueranger and his successors. It's together, it's a very scientific work, very, very deep and scientific work, and together it's not a piece for museum, it's a very living tradition. So I think the genius is there in Solemn.

SPEAKER_02 12:34

I think that is the good definition of tradition.

SPEAKER_01 12:37

And and and it's a work by itself, it's not just uh an entertainment. And do you know some I I don't know whether this is true, probably it's my own perception of aura and labora, but I always thought there's a play on words here. It's it's aura labora, they they sound exactly the same. So when you prayer labor on words, yes, and this is probably what prayer and is aura and work like, and we all always understand labora like manual work or intellectual work, but I always thought the gregon chant is in between these both because we you pray in the Gregorian and you work in the labor in the Gregorian, because labora, the word labora, the verb means work, is made of two elements aura, prayer, and lab is the the mouth. So it's the work of the mouth as well. So by essence, when the the the monk or the canon goes to the choir singing choir, he is working. So the aura doesn't stay at the door of the church, but he brings into the church with the Gregorian shot his work, la bora as well. It's probably my sort of funny ideas, but it's something which could be idea, in it.

SPEAKER_02 14:12

Well, I think it makes sense too, because when we also say that uh aura, so the prayer is divine office, and divine office is God's work.

SPEAKER_00 14:21

Yes, and we start the first office, Martins, by saying, Lord, open my lips.

SPEAKER_02 14:29

That's true. So, yes, that's um true for Gregory and Shen, but it's also true for the whole tradition, the whole monastic life that Solem was trying to restore. And this Gregor takes part uh of this complex restoration. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 14:56

And that's why we are made clearly the choice of Solem in our institute, in our parishes, uh in our schools and institutions, in our convents. Uh it's it can be only Solem and Don Don Guerranger, Don Mocro, Don Gajar, uh, because it gives this unique spirit, and uh we are very, very, uh, very keen on this method.

SPEAKER_02 15:20

Don Mocro made a theory on the the based on all the studies made before. Then Don Gajar applied this theory to the choir, to the congregation, the monastic congregation, yeah, and uh made some maybe more simple advice for the counters and well the one singing Gregor and it's it's what's called mm mm Solemn's method. Yes, and I understand that you are opposing Solemn's method with others methods, yes. For instance, the semi allergic one um which is based on the restoration of the antique way of singing regration. We don't have records, so it's a very um if only yeah, it's it's a study more than than anything else. Yes, it's a musical study, and it's very interesting for students and musical, well, even singers, but actually it has not that particular um landscape we have with Solemn's method.

SPEAKER_00 16:37

Yes, and perhaps it's uh it's the right time also to give to express a special gratitude to Miss Le Bon and Miss Demanche, who were uh disciples of uh Don Gar. Yes, and who trained us, and they were wonderful, canon. We had the the great chance to be their students. Yeah, we have been that should be and uh Miss Lebon in particular, but she was always followed by Miss Demanche. But Miss Lebon was an extraordinary um uh teacher, and she was living the Gregorian. And something that struck me in the solemn method lived by Miss Lebon, it's after the interpretation of the mass, she would say, We don't speak anymore about it. It has been offered to God because we were we were going to her and saying, Miss Lebon, can you tell us if it was good? Yes, no, not after. After it's finished.

SPEAKER_01 17:26

For a recording, she would say yes, I would comment. Yeah, and she would have. I mean, we probably didn't realize because we were both uh a bit a bit a bit youngish when we had 25 years ago, I can and we were young, so we probably didn't treasure enough. That's my only little regret, uh, that we didn't treasure an ask uh enough because we probably didn't realize where she was coming from. Yes. And the a a disciple of Don Gajar, two living disciples of Don Gajar in front of us, just handing out the first generation for us. I mean, we've learned a lot, but she she would was able to, in the conduct in conducting the chant in the keronomy, and also in the the the way, the mode we would sing this nume as opposed to that one in the uh tenebre, for instance, she would say no, no, because in the in the manuscript, like those one, like this one, the she said no, because there is such and such and such. She knew all of them. She knew all of them. She could tell you because she had the triplex. So with the three uh the graduate gradually triplex, the gradually triplex, with all the the signs of the semiology from as well as the normal stuff. And she could say this has to be to say, Oh, this one should be more. Can you just stroke and caress this one? Uh the same new uh about three or four words later, exactly the same new, salicus, for instance. She would say, No, no, this one is full voice because in the manuscript it says this and this.

SPEAKER_00 19:09

So you say, and all this science and this um profound knowledge and reverence, together with a deep sense of humor, because we were between 18 and 25 years old. We were a bit cheeky, and she was she was giving us some Nikki names like My Little Rabbit or other names, and we were lost things, and it was in a good atmosphere together. So she was an extraordinary personality, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think it's very important to mention her and her work.

SPEAKER_01 19:41

All for God, just it was amazing.

SPEAKER_02 19:44

Shall we add that this method of Solem has been encouraged and even maybe canonized, if we can use the word by Pope. By the tenth.

SPEAKER_00 19:59

Absolutely, very clearly.

SPEAKER_01 20:01

The the the the difference, what what the perception of all this method is because they got back to even a more original uh uh root, if I may say, of the Gregorian chant, because the Gregorian chant is the singing of a Latin word, and that's the difference. It's the Latin song. You can't sing Gregorian chant in a vernacular, you can try, it won't it won't it won't work. And the Gregorian chant is written to sing the rhythm of each word, and in Latin we know that the word could be uh dactyl with three feet or spondee with two feet, and the accent guides the music. So uh the I would say the guideline of the Gregorian chant, and that's the core of the method is here, is because we sing in Latin. So the sacred language guides the sacred music. So in other words, the word of God is made flesh.

SPEAKER_02 21:04

And I I would just add something Greg and Shunt is not made for singers, it may it's made for faithful. So it's you could be a good singer, you could be an excellent Latinist, but if you're not praying, you're not singing Gregor and Shunt.

SPEAKER_01 21:23

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:25

Thank you. It was a very interesting uh podcast. And the figure of Don Guerranger in the Catholic Church is actually there is an investigation to declare him a blessed, so it's uh he's a giant.

SPEAKER_01 21:37

Yes, we are standing on his shoulders, that's what we do.

SPEAKER_02 21:40

Yeah, for decades and decades.

SPEAKER_01 21:44

Yes, in eternity. Thank you, Canon. Thanks, Callon, for your hard work and thank you for hosting me. Thank you for being there.

SPEAKER_02 21:52

Okay, and we'll see you maybe next time. God bless you.