Your VIP: E05 Knife Angel

In this episode, Becky Dustan of Mike's Trust, speaks to hosts Ben Woolvin and Police and Crime Commissioner Alison Hernandez about losing her brother to knife crime, and the importance of the Knife Angel's visit to Plymouth in helping to educate people about the dangers of carrying a weapon.

We also hear from members of the public about what they think about the Knife Angel and safety in Plymouth, and from Inspector Paul Laity about knife crime in the city, how to report it, and what people should do if they're worried about someone carrying a weapon.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Hello and welcome to Your VIP, Your Voice in Policing, the podcast from the Office of the Police and Crime Commissioner. I'm one of your hosts, Ben Wolvin, and today's very important person is Becky Dustin. Becky, thank you very much indeed for coming into our mobile studio.

SPEAKER_03 0:15

You're welcome.

SPEAKER_02 0:16

And where are we? Can you just explain to people?

SPEAKER_03 0:18

So we're currently just sat outside the Knife Angel, which has been brought down to Plymouth. So we've got um we can see the city centre from where we are, but behind us we've got the knife angel, and we can see lots of people going to go and have a look at that at the moment.

SPEAKER_02 0:32

We're parked in one of those places where if you were in a normal car, you would feel very conspicuous. We're right on the pavement, aren't we, in the centre of Plymouth. And um, Becky, the reason you are campaigning on knife crime is very personal.

SPEAKER_03 0:44

Yes, yes it is. Um I lost my brother, he was stabbed and killed in Bobmin on April 30th, 2023.

SPEAKER_02 0:52

So nearly three years from the time that we're recording this, which is at the start of March in 2026. Um, and just last week you were here opening the Knife Angel.

SPEAKER_03 1:04

Yes, yeah, it was an incredible honour to be asked to um speak as part of the opening ceremony. Um, and I was able to share with the public my brother's story and a bit about why it's so important to have the knife angel here in Plymouth, and also why it's so important as a whole to um to talk about knife crime and the impact and um the things we can do to help reduce knife crime, you know, education, um early intervention, talking, discussion, things like that. So um it was an absolute honour to be here and we've had some really great feedback.

SPEAKER_02 1:38

And we can listen now to a clip of you speaking at the opening ceremony.

SPEAKER_03 1:42

My brother was my best friend, he was my problem solver, he was my one constant. There were a hundred people on the street during that incident, a hundred witnesses of the to the death of a man and the wounding of four others. A hundred people who will never forget what they saw. Later that same morning, as the sun rose, the news broke. Multiple people stared, one dead in a quiet, safe corner of town. Despite the hard faith being identified, found and arrested by dawn, many of them really broken and afraid. And then there's the other side. The other thing that the family of the man holding the knife. The family who had loved him, nothing, and wanted nothing but him. They didn't ask him for taking her knife. They did not rave him to harm others. Yet there they were. We love their grandson, their nephew, and their brother, and he was imprisoned for his actions. They were also enduring the anger of their community, thank you horrific murder who damaged their property, and the three of their loved one had named. I do not seek the name of the man who took my brother's wife to protect him. I do not seek it to protect his family. They are victims of him, and they deserve our enemy. The events of April 30th, 2023 took my brother for me, and they should an entire community. I stand before the statue telling my brother's story so others can understand the devastation that life crime creates. Speaking openly about knife crime and the devastation it causes and how we've got more lives from being destroyed. And this is why I stand here today. Because my brother's story, and so many of the stories held within these rings should not have been cut short by a knife. Because no other family should have to stand where I stand today. Because the pain of losing someone to a knife does not fade, it echoes. By standing together, by talking, by challenging, by educating, we can stop future harm. We can prevent another family from losing someone they love. We can prevent another name from being added to the long list of lives changed forever by a single blade. Working together, we can stop the pain before it is inflicted.

SPEAKER_02 4:00

So well let me let me let me ask you about that. So you you you were asked to come and speak at the opening ceremony.

SPEAKER_03 4:06

Yes, yeah. Um I was asked uh about a month ago to come and speak as part of the opening ceremony, but previous to that I was also asked as a charity, as Mike Trust, um, to come and do some work around um the engagement programmes for um uh surrounding the knife angel. Um so I've actually been working with um Plymouth City Council and Devon Cornwall Police as part of this since September last year, as um the original plan was to have it here in October. Unfortunately, uh, due to logistics it didn't happen, but we have it here now, which is excellent. So we are still very much a part of that and providing some of our um sessions to young people over the next month.

SPEAKER_02 4:46

While we've been here in Plymouth, we've been talking to people about what they make of the knife angel and also speaking to a police inspector here about what knife crime is like in Plymouth at the moment.

SPEAKER_05 4:59

From the Office of the Police and Crime Commissioner, this is your voice in policing.

SPEAKER_00 5:05

My name's Glenn Jordan, I'm from Four Greens Community Trust, and I'm involved in running a well-being photography group for over 50s and military veterans, and we've come down here today to see the Knife Angel and to go and discuss what it means to ourselves.

SPEAKER_07 5:23

I'm Carl. Life Prime has raised massively and in this city as well. I've got young children, it's quite concerning. So um actually having something like this come here is is a massive education for everybody. Obviously, the information on the front tells you quite a lot. Um, but yeah, I think it's it's an important statement, and I I'm fully behind things like this. It's scary. There's I mean swords, machetes, so many knives here that have been handed in by potential criminals, and what they could have done with these weapons is it just blows my mind really. It's it's an amazing statue, but yeah, the construction is quite scary, the thought of what that was and what they could have been used for.

SPEAKER_09 6:06

My name's Nigel. We live in Brentwood. We're just sort of reflecting on this amazing angel. Um our daughter's doing medicine down here and has been for the last five years. Obviously, so many sad stories out there, but uh it's nice to see this monument that's been put up and it just hopefully will make people stop and uh just reflect for a minute and hopefully that will uh that will create a position for change moving forward.

SPEAKER_01 6:31

Hi, I'm Lisa Rubero and I'm a student here at Plymouth University. Um I think it's just absolutely gorgeous. Um every time I walk past it, even though I walk past it many times during the day, it just feels something, especially considering everything that's been happening lately. Um, and I also know someone who has gone through hard time like this and who's lost someone that way. I think it's a great, beautiful way to remember the people who we lost in those conditions.

SPEAKER_08 7:05

My name's Penelope Johnson, I'm part of the Plymouth Wellbeing Community Photographic Group, over 50 veterans. I've come here with the group to look at the uh knife angel. Um it's beautiful in one sense, it's different, but then you've got the other sense where the meaning of it, you know, the hands mean sort of forgiveness maybe. I look directly at the face and the eyes, you know, the sort of darkness, but it is, it's a very dark subject, isn't it? But but the way it's structured is really, really good. It's an artistic piece, but with meaning.

SPEAKER_00 7:41

It's an impressive statue. It's a lot bigger than I think uh a lot of people, especially myself, thought it was going to be. It's 20 20 foot, um, but when you actually see it and when you see how many knives have actually been used to uh to make it, it's astonishing, and also the sentiment and and the emotion that it brings around it. I came to the uh to the launch when it opened uh and the speeches were just very moving. Though we don't have much knife crime in Plymouth and the southwest, it's something that we do need to be aware of.

SPEAKER_01 8:14

I used to feel completely safe walking in the streets on my own in the evening. Um now, even if I have just a two-minute walk to go to Tesco, for example, I feel a bit scared. Um always thinking if something happens, what can I do? And it's just so unfair to have to think that way.

SPEAKER_10 8:35

I'm Paul Layty, I'm the Chief Inspector for Neighbourhood Policing in Plymouth. Knife crime across the fort is reduced by uh 12% overall. In Plymouth we've still got relatively low figures, but uh that said, you know, only one incident can make a huge difference and impact uh to those people it affects. So what we're doing in Plymouth is uh obviously with the knife anger here this month, it's a real catalyst to get everybody talking and thinking about what they can do. We're delivering packages in schools with the help of Mike's Trust and hashtag not the one. We're delivering to youth clubs. You'll see our knife uh arch pop up at various locations with officers to engage and get the community thinking about you know their thoughts and what we can do to improve and help the city stay safe. My plea to the public is if they they're worried about someone, somebody that's carrying a knife or they have information to give, please don't sit on it. Please tell us. You can call 101, you can report online, and you can use Crime Stoppers anonymously on 0800 555 151. We need to know.

SPEAKER_02 9:33

You're listening to your VIP, your voice in policing, and today's very important person is Becky Dustin. Becky, you are the sister of Michael Ridioff Allen, and we'd like you now to just tell a bit of Mike's story. What um happened to Mike?

SPEAKER_03 9:49

Um so Michael he was an incredible human being. He was um he was my best friend, um, and he was um playing rugby with Bobmin Rugby Club, um, and they got to their end of season, so they had celebrations at the rugby club and everyone was enjoying themselves, and they decided to carry on the night at the local nightclub in Bobmin. Um again, whilst they were at the nightclub, everyone reports it was a really good night, everyone was enjoying themselves, lots of laughing and dancing. Um, and then upon leaving the club, there was um there were some fights breaking out in the street, uh, lots of little pockets of fighting to start with. Um, and looking at the CCTV and from reports we've been told since, you can see that Michael just kind of standbacks stands back and watches what's going on. Um, one of the things that wasn't mentioned in court, but you know, we were quite public about is Michael was trained in security. He held his licence for many years, worked at the gates of festivals and and on the doors of nightclubs. So he he knows what to do in those sorts of situations. And as he'd been drinking and he wasn't working, therefore he wasn't insured, he knew not to get involved because if you get involved in that sort of situation, it escalates, it gets bigger, it gets worse. So he stood back and watched what was going on, waiting for his friends to appear so that they could go off home. Um, that was until someone emerged from the crowd, and you could see the stab wound, and at about the same time someone else shouted, I've been stabbed. Um, and you can see Michael identifies the person holding the knife. So he just walks into the crowd, grabs this person by the shoulders, keeps them at arm's length, and pulls them away from the crowd, and we we assume that is his way of protecting other people was to remove that danger. Um, but upon doing so, the two men tripped over the curb and fell to the ground. There was a bit of a tussle on the ground, um, and when Michael stood, he took a three few steps and fell to the ground again and he never got up. And at some point during that struggle on the ground, Michael had received one stab wound to the abdomen. Um, it had um nicked an artery in his abdomen, and he bled out within minutes.

SPEAKER_02 12:04

You've told this story so many times, and every time you tell it, it's clearly really difficult, and it it's making the hairs on the back of my neck stand up. Uh what are you what are you doing as a family to try to make things better?

SPEAKER_03 12:19

So we had a choice following Michael's death, and I think that's a position that a lot of people find themselves in. You can kind of sink into the grief and the depression and the anger you feel about the unfairness of everything, or you can try and do something positive and try and move forwards and make change, and we chose the second option and we decided to do something positive. Um, and we decided to set up a charity. Um, initially, when we started looking for support after Michael's death, we found that there was nothing in the Southwest region, charity-wise, to support people that have been affected by knife crime. So we thought, well, let's do that, let's set up a charity, let's support other people affected by knife crime. Um, and then a little bit more thought behind it, and we went, well, what if those people never have to be affected in the first place? You know, what if we can prevent the crime before it happens? And the best way to prevent things from happening is through education, it's through discussion, it's through um giving information to young people so they they don't make those choices in the first place. So we've spent the past two years building the charity, and the past 18 months I've been going into schools and colleges and youth groups and delivering talks to um help young people understand um what knife crime is, why knife crime occurs, um the consequences of knife crime, not just to themselves but to the people they love, their family, their friends, the community around them, and on society as a whole. And also giving them information about how they can um report um people carrying weapons, where they can turn to for support if they ever feel the need that they they might need to carry a weapon to keep themselves safe. What can they do instead of doing that? Um, so yeah, that's that's what we've been doing the past two years.

SPEAKER_02 14:09

We're recording this conversation just a few metres from the Knife Angel, which is in the middle of Plymouth City Centre for the whole of the month of March 2026. What do you think of it?

SPEAKER_03 14:21

It's stunning, it's beautiful, but it's terrifying. Um as a a victim of knife crime, it's uh a little triggering for me. You know, it it does hurt to look at it because I think about the amount of pain that is included in that statue. But what we've got to remember is not all those knives in that statue have been used to harm people, most of them have been surrendered before they were ever taken onto the streets, um before they were used to harm anyone, but there are knives in that statue that have caused harm. Um so there is a lot of pain in that angel, but actually that's what where its power is.

SPEAKER_02 14:59

You've been campaigning, as you say, for quite a while now. There must have been some moments of light, some moments that you really hung on to that have kept you going. Can you share any of those with us?

SPEAKER_03 15:08

I think most of my moments come from speaking to young people themselves. Um, the amount of times after an assembly I've had a young person come up to me and said, you know, thank you, I didn't know that, or you know, I've been in this situation and I, you know, it's good to have that information. Um also a lot of people hearing Mike's story, um, they can see they can see a bit of hope. You know, it's it's a tragic story, don't get me wrong, you know, it it's harrowing for us, but it has hope because we can show others that even in the worst pain there is still a bit of light, there's still a bit of positivity, and we do that through carrying on the work of the trust.

SPEAKER_02 15:51

And you mentioned the children who speak to you, that that's after you've spoken to them in an assembly because you are going around schools trying to make people more aware of this.

SPEAKER_03 15:59

Yes, yeah, and you know, the message is it's always really gratefully received. Um, we've had a lot of great feedback from both students and teachers, um, you know, about how they I suppose enjoyed the session is not the right word to use because who enjoys hearing that sort of thing, but actually they they appreciate it. Um, they feel that they've learned something from it and definitely they will remember it in the future, and that means a great deal to us.

SPEAKER_02 16:25

What can teachers do if they'd like you to come and talk in their school?

SPEAKER_03 16:28

So we're on Facebook under Mike's Trust, um, our emails there. We are um the website is back up, it is still in production, but it is back up, and that's mike's.org.uk. Um, you can email us just to be mindful though that it's just three of us running the charity, so if we don't get back to you straight away, it's not because we're ignoring you, it's just because you know there's only three of us, so we're doing our best.

SPEAKER_02 16:47

Well, that might bring us on to what needs to happen next, right? What would you like to do now?

SPEAKER_03 16:52

I would love for Mike's Trust to be in a position where we could employ people to continue the work we're doing, um, you know, so that we can reach out to more schools, we can do more talks, we can do more work within the community. I would love to be in a position where we could give training to other people working with young people, so youth workers, teachers, um, you know, group leaders, I'd love to be able to do that. Um, I think that is a long way in the future. We are still very much in early stages of what the trust can do, but I think so far what we have done is incredible.

SPEAKER_02 17:26

Michael was, from what I know of him, a really unusual person. He was really widely loved by a very large number of people.

SPEAKER_03 17:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:35

And at the heart of this conversation about knife crime is a conversation about what it means to be a man these days, right? Yeah. And I wonder, have you got thoughts about what needs to change there and and how can people be a bit more like like Michael?

SPEAKER_03 17:52

I think we need to be less led by the things we hear, um, especially via social media and um news and things like that. You know, we we shouldn't be under this impression that everyone is carrying a knife, therefore we must do so to carry to keep ourselves safe, because that's simply not true. But that is one of the myths that I so regularly hear from young people is well, how am I supposed to keep myself safe when someone else is carrying a weapon? Um, we need to dispel those myths. Um, and we need to um give young people and all people uh the we need to empower them to be able to make the right choices, but also to report when they know someone is carrying a weapon, um, to be able to do the right thing, to talk to people that they trust, so that we can reduce the amount of weapons on the street, but also so we make it an open conversation. It's no longer hidden in the dark that you know I'm I'm hiding this knife. It's you know, I've thought about it. What can I do other than carry a knife to keep myself safe? What can I do to keep my friends safe? You know, so I think it is about making things a lot more open and honest.

SPEAKER_02 19:06

Michael was somebody who kind of supported a lot of people, and and and what would he have said if if one of his friends had said, Look, I'm thinking of carrying a knife?

SPEAKER_03 19:16

I don't think I can say the exact words he would say, but he definitely would not be in agreement. He would tell them that they're being incredibly stupid. Um, you know, it is violence of any sort is not something Michael was ever a fan of, unless it was on the rugby pitch, but you know, that's a whole different story. He was very much about um, you know, having fun, um, enjoyment, kindness, um, and just having a bit of a laugh. And actually, weapons aren't a laugh, they're serious, they're dangerous, um, they're not exciting, they're they're worrying. Um, and it's certainly something he would not have been involved with, and he wouldn't encourage anyone ever to be involved in.

SPEAKER_02 19:59

And then there's the whole thing about finding your crowd, finding someone that's a bit like you, and and he did that time and time again, whether it was surfing, rugby you just mentioned, but also cars, right? And so, what can people do if they're if they're lonely or if they know a young person who's lonely?

SPEAKER_03 20:15

So there are so many different groups and organizations you can get involved in, you know, you whether it be martial arts or swimming or um art groups, there is something out there for everyone. You just need to take a little look around. And then there's the the not organised groups, I say that very, but you know, Michael was very much into cars, he used to spend almost every day up at his mate's garage. He had no uh mechanical qualifications in regards to cars. I mean, he was a lift engineer, but slightly different. Um, but he learnt everything from being up at the garages by doing and tinkering. Um, and you know, there's a lot of car meets around. They're just people, like-minded people that are coming together to share their experiences, to share their enjoyment together, and there are so many groups like that. You just have to go online and search it and you will find something. But don't stop looking. There is something out there for everyone. Um, find your like-minded people, find the people that that lift you up and support you.

SPEAKER_02 21:16

So, what would you like people to think about when they are standing there looking at the statue?

SPEAKER_03 21:21

I think people need to think about the impact of carrying a weapon and that impact on society. I encourage parents to bring along their children and have open and honest discussion about how to stay safe, um, what to do with the information they're given, you know, if they're hearing that other people are carrying weapons, what should they do about that? How could they report it? Why it's not a good idea to carry a weapon in retaliation. I also would like for people to think about the stories behind the the knives in the angel. Most of the knives were not used ever to harm anyone, most were taken um during surrender. So handed into amnesty bins or taken by people who were carrying and surrendered. But some of the knives do have really poignant stories, really terrible stories. There is a butcher's knife that is included in The Angel on the Wing that is signed, inscribed by one of the people that were involved in a stabbing at Tamerton Foliot, which is just down the road from here, on New Year's Day in 2015. One person died, several of us were injured. And the the knife that was used has been inscribed by one of the survivors, thanking the surgeon who helped to save their life.

SPEAKER_02 22:41

It is incredible, isn't it? And there are other knives which have got similar engravings on them.

SPEAKER_03 22:46

Yeah, yeah, and I think every knife has a story to tell. Whether it's a story of a good story because it was taken before it was used to harm someone, or whether it's a story we can learn from and it's a story of a knife that did cause harm, and why was that used in the first place? And what was the impact of that, not just on the person who received an injury, not just on the person holding the knife, but everyone around them, the communities and societies.

SPEAKER_05 23:14

From the office of the Police and Crime Commissioner, this is your voice in policing.

SPEAKER_02 23:20

You're listening to your voice in policing, your VIP. I'm one of your hosts, Ben Wolvin, and Alison Hernandez is your other host. And we are joined today by our very important person, Becky Dustin. We've been talking all about knife crime, and we're parked next to the knife angel in Plymouth. Becky, sometimes young people are very reluctant to report knife crime.

SPEAKER_03 23:42

Yes, I mean, with that comes the fear of putting themselves in danger, the fear of being seen as a grass, or you know, not being able to uh keep friends secrets, or you know, there's a lot of worries that come about reporting. You know, you're trying to stay friends with people, you're trying to keep yourself safe. Um, so it makes it very difficult then to say, well, hang on, I know someone who's carrying a weapon and I want to do something about that, but I don't want to say anything. Um so Crime Stoppers has created Fearless, which is an anonymous reporting service. And that's not just for knife crime, that is for any crime. If a young person feels they have information that could prevent another person or themselves from being at harm, they can report completely anonymously to Fearless. It's available online. There is also a telephone number that they can call. They don't take any information about the person uh reporting, so they don't take your name or any details, but they take the information you give and pass it on to the relative authority so that they can then investigate and see um what they can do to support.

SPEAKER_02 24:46

And we have now been joined by our other host, the Commissioner Alison Hernandez. Becky, have you got questions for Alison for the Commissioner about what she might be able to do to help you?

SPEAKER_03 24:57

Um, I mean, it's not so much to help us, I mean we we do have some questions, but we're we're interested to see, you know, what do you feel is working in reducing knife crime in the area and in the country as a whole? You know, do you work with other forces? Are there things that you are able to take and use in Devon and Cornwall that you feel are working?

SPEAKER_06 25:15

Well, it's been quite interesting because Devon and Cornwall Police and the recorded statistics around knife crime is that we've generally been quite low. And complacency is our enemy down here. It's really easy to say we're a really safe area, we don't have to worry about these sorts of things that you know it might largely happen in our cities and the rest of us never need to worry. But clearly, the perception or the reality that's not reported is that people are carrying weapons. So we've got something that we need to do to really make uh it clear to people that we want to know, and that's why I love Crime Stoppers. The anonymous reporting element, and especially the fearless campaign, because it's targeted to help young people be interested in it rather than a bit of a you know, sort of boring uh element of just report anonymously, is absolutely vital. Um, this force has worked and does work with a number of other forces to tackle some of the issues that we face here, but I would say that knife crime has been one of those areas that has been under the radar not really not really a huge campaign on and not really worked on. So I think there's been a step change in the last couple of years where there's much more effort going on. You may have seen they've got something called knife arch which they can put in places. Now, when they first got the knife arch, I was in Torquay, my hometown, and my daughter was going to an event, and I could see they were using the knife arch inside that under-18s event. Um just for anything else but awareness that you can't be carrying knives in these sorts of places. I was I was I was overwhelmed. I thought actually, that this is exactly the sort of spaces we should be in to educate so that everyone knows we won't tolerate it.

SPEAKER_03 26:49

Yeah, I've seen the knife arch um at Bobman College, and the young people there were so interested in that, and it opened up those discussions again. And it's interesting you say about safety, you know, my brother was killed in a small town in Cornwall. I always thought we wouldn't be the one, and interestingly, a few years before Michael was killed, we had an incident in Liscard, which is where Michael and I grew up, um, where a young man was stabbed and killed, and I empathised so much with the family then and thought, I hope I'm never in that position. And a few years later it happened to us. So you you're not safe as much as you feel safe, there is always the chance that it can happen wherever you are, but we reduce that chance by having these discussions and by putting in preventative measures.

SPEAKER_06 27:34

We do, and what I what I will say is you know, it's a bit like uh years ago, teenage pregnancy, everyone thinks it won't happen to them. This is the same with high levels of serious violence in our communities. We all think it's somebody else it's going to happen to, or it's somebody else's problem, and it's about time we started recognising that it's all of our problems. I mean, we are very good in Devon and Cornwall. One of the reasons why we do have lower crime levels is because we're very resilient, we don't tolerate it in our communities, and we do call it out often, but I think the complacency element that we've had is is a factor, and you know, even the reality that we had a gang problem in South Devon, young people gang problem being recruited into real gangs, wasn't actually recognised at one point by the senior officers in the police because they said, Well, it's not it's nothing like London gangs, but it was a gang problem, and we got home office money to tackle it. So that grassroots that you know, local people, local police officers, uh local council officers, the ones who can really sort of recognise that there's a problem, even if we haven't got the data, and help us focus on doing something to tackle it.

SPEAKER_03 28:40

Yeah, and as Mike's trust, we we do work at grassroots, we are educating young people in schools, young youth groups about the impact of knife crime on themselves, on the people they love, on communities. Uh, we've recently been working with Devon Corbell Police on the Not the One website and doing a lot of work with that, which has been fantastic. So, you know, what more can we do to work collaboratively? Not just the South and Mike's trust, but actually all agencies, what can we be doing to work together to reduce this problem in the future?

SPEAKER_06 29:09

Well, in interestingly enough, today we're actually hosting a serious violence summit up at the hotel further up the road from here, which the High Sheriff is going to convene to bring a lot of those agencies together. And one of the questions we're asking is what could we do more collaboratively, or what can you offer as an organization that we can take up, or what do you need to break down any barriers to try and tackle some of these issues? And those are the sorts of questions we're asking today. So I think there's there's things like making sure people are talking formally in occasions like that, but the biggest issue and the biggest difference we can make is parents having conversations with their children, and there is a fantastic um programme online called Let's Talk that was established in South Devon, and we've just been funding it to try and get it across the whole of Devon and Cormore. It's a free online resource for parents, and they will help parents have difficult conversations with their children, whether it's about drugs, pornography, knife crime, um, and also how they can be safe online. So there's some real opportunity to actually bolster the promotion of that scheme if we could do that together.

SPEAKER_03 30:14

Amazing, yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:16

Becky, thank you so much for your time for joining us and for talking about the knife angel. And Commissioner, thank you for your thoughts. I mean, you've just been looking at it for the first time in situation. What do you think?

SPEAKER_06 30:27

Well, I've been following it online because I've seen how absolutely uh beautiful is a I don't know if it's the right word, it looks at night when it's lit up. It's quite awe-inspiring, and interesting, a lot of the comments on Facebook that I've seen, which you know Facebook comments are never ones to follow, lots of people saying how emotional it is to stare at it, how it really sort of brings it to home that we do have an issue that we should be resolving, and they've been really positive comments on there. So I think it's really stirring up the conversation, which is the whole point of having it here, because me just saying we need to talk about knife crime does not inspire residents in our communities and young people in our communities. We need something that's a trigger point that says, Wow, this is something we should be considering more seriously.

SPEAKER_02 31:13

And you said Becky that you've already been hearing people talking about it as they've walked away from it.

SPEAKER_03 31:18

Yeah, so I was here on Tuesday, um, part of the opening ceremony, I was invited to speak, and before I'd even arrived, I was sat waiting for my dad, and a couple of girls walked behind me, and I could hear them talking about it and about what um you know they thought about it. And I just thought it's uh it's incredible that it's already opening up discussions. It had only been in place, I think, about 12 hours at that point. And you know, as you said, you've seen these conversations on on social media, and what's really interesting about that is for every negative comment I've seen, there is someone saying, Have you looked at this history? Have you looked at this? Have you you know, and pointing out the reasons why it's there, people almost self-policing those conversations.

SPEAKER_06 31:56

Never seen anything like it. No, it's amazing. And and what's what's quite fascinating is about four years ago I tried to pay to get the knife angel down because it costs a lot of money to move it, it costs about£20,000 to literally move it um safely. And um, I tried to do it about four years ago, and interestingly, both the police and the council refused to have it because they said we don't have a knife crime problem, we think it will glamorise it, but clearly they've come to a more of an understanding that this is the thing that you need to help have the decent conversations around it for to protect ourselves in our communities better than we are now. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:31

Becky Dustin, you've been our very important person. Thank you very much indeed. And that is the end of another episode of Your VIP, your voice in policing. I'm one of your hosts, Ben Wolvin.

SPEAKER_06 32:43

Alison Hernandez, police and crime commissioner.

SPEAKER_02 32:46

And if you've got a question before the commissioner, if you've got a place you'd like us to visit, then please do email comms at dc and pcc.gov.uk. Thank you very much for listening.