More Does More Problems

Codey Gearon is a farmer and hunting guide. In this episode we talk about the importance of taking does, and the benefits of going for guided hunts.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:02

For a head as sharp and tough as the one on your shoulders. Bloody hell, you got him. Cayuga broadheads.

SPEAKER_03 0:14

G'day, I'm Cody Gearan, and this is Wild Takes.

SPEAKER_00 0:26

On this episode, I'm talking to farmer and guide Cody Geeron. Today's Wild Take is More Dose, More Problems. Let's get on into it. Farmer, hunter, and also hunting guide. Talk people out. To a point, and the man's modest, that's uh classic Australian modesty. So I've been talking a lot recently about what I think is the imperative of getting people to drop the taboo about going on paid hunts, on guided hunts. And you've got a few acres. Uh let's not say where we are, just uh to keep make sure people don't don't uh drop by unannounced. But um we are actually funnily only about 15 minutes away from where I recorded my episode with Tristan, which is crazy. I didn't even know until I was driving here for this episode that I'm just down the road.

SPEAKER_03 1:33

Yeah, well I sort of buddy didn't give you too much information real quick. I was like, oh, hang on, wait, I should let him know where he's actually meant to be going.

SPEAKER_00 1:40

I love a little last-minute uh last-minute directions. It keeps things keeps things interesting. Now, I think that it's really important for us to be able to have hunting in Australia. Um we're very, very fortunate. Uh all of it obviously is just the hunting of ferals, you're not allowed to hunt native species without a special permit. Some wallabies, if you're down in Tazy, if you're lucky enough. But other than that, it's all feral species. And in a lot of places, there are lots of farmland that has abundant feral species. And either they don't want the hassle, can't be bothered, whatever it is, but it's a it's a symbiotic relationship which is not happening and a resource which is going to waste. But Cody, you do have a bit of farmland that you run and you have some ferals on there, is that correct?

SPEAKER_03 2:34

Yeah, so uh at the moment, like we've got populations of red deer, fallow deer, and feral pigs. Right. And they're they're always constantly on the go, and particularly pig populations at the moment, like they're tearing up and getting worse, and especially as the colder months start to come, like they'll tear up the place more and be less feed for the cattle and whatnot.

SPEAKER_00 2:56

I did have a little look around and there are a lot of diggings, a lot of areas which aren't good for anything else now. Yeah, there's no grass growing where the pigs are digging.

SPEAKER_03 3:04

Yeah, and on top of that, when they do do digging, like they will like that gives opportunities for a buddy weed species to sort of take root because that's a because it's turned up soil now and they can get a seed in, so like when you see you got paddocks like when there's thick buddy or fistles more or less like whether it's Baffispur or Scotch Fistle. Mm-hmm I know it's a Scotch, yeah. Yeah, so yeah that those take over a lot more quicker once the pigs turn it over and yeah, again, like degrades the feeding quality in in the ground.

SPEAKER_00 3:35

How are you keeping on top of them then? Are you managing to get much hunting?

SPEAKER_03 3:40

Yeah, so one of the things that we do do is like all obviously like we do pig shooting and stuff here at the moment. Like you met young Justin just here, like he he's running the pig traps at the second. But then we also got um local fellows coming in with the big dogs.

SPEAKER_00 3:57

Oh, that's interesting. Because I was actually chatting to uh Zach Williams about this and um about people coming and hunting pigs with dogs in areas that you've got deer and you don't want to disturb the population. Are you finding that people hunting with pig dogs is having a big effect on the deer that are in the area?

SPEAKER_03 4:17

Not really. Obviously, right now it's the rut. We're going for the rut period. The pig doggers know me and they know how I run things, so like they just go right out, we're not coming around, we're not gonna ruin chances for people to come up, and so sort of once the rut period period sort of ends, well I'm sort of not taking people on, then they go, right oh, we'll come in now and we'll we'll get on top of the pigs.

SPEAKER_00 4:40

Right. Yeah, I just so during the the off season, so to speak, they come in and they come in with their dogs and 'cause I cause people are saying that they can be a problem, or another people saying that they just are trained to go after the pigs and they don't don't bother that deer.

SPEAKER_03 4:56

No, well if they're a good pig dog, like they they're they're aimed solely at pearly is for the pigs. Cause if well that's sort of how they all trained them, like they've got to be stock safe. Sure. It's sort of up to the standard, so if they're stock safe, they should be deer safe to a point. Right, yeah. So like yeah, I don't as far as I know, the guys who've come out here with their dogs they've they've never targeted deer or anything. They have seen deer like on their on their travels around looking for pigs, but like they've never targeted them. They they'll let me know that they've seen the deer, but they won't target them themselves unless told otherwise.

SPEAKER_00 5:29

Interesting. Interesting. So you've got pretty much perfect terrain around here. You've got mixed woodland and pasture, there's some blackberries I noticed down there. Uh, there's some clover in the field. It is um deer paradise, it really is. Yep. Uh and how many deer do you think are knocking around these parts? That is something I really can't put a number on.

SPEAKER_03 5:50

Yeah, it can be hard. Like on the block that I managed for myself around October last year, I counted a mob of 75 red deer in one mob. Bloody hell. Nice. And that's that was one mob, and there's I know there's multiple mobs on that property.

SPEAKER_00 6:06

Right.

unknown 6:07

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 6:08

What are hind to stag ratio numbers like? Is that uh quite heavy towards the female side of things?

SPEAKER_03 6:16

At the moment it is. In the past it's usually been about like, oh could have been like anywhere from 14 hinds to a stag.

SPEAKER_00 6:23

Right.

SPEAKER_03 6:24

Or it might be even seven hinds to a stag. But at the moment, in the last this last rut that we've been experiencing, like I've we've been finding mobs of hinds that don't have stags running with them.

SPEAKER_00 6:35

Yeah, it's a funny one.

SPEAKER_03 6:37

It wasn't until like today that we finally found found a stag with a mob of hinds that we gave chase to. But like, yeah, all the other times we've been finding mobs of six hinds, seven hinds, buddy, thirteen hinds, and not not having any stags of them. May maybe they might have a spike. But no, like older mature stags.

SPEAKER_00 6:56

Yeah, I did actually hear that what people often do conventionally, and you get it a lot if you go to um anywhere in the world really, what you'll get is they'll say no cows, no does, no hinds, whatever, because they want to keep the breeding female population. And then, you know, people come in, they shoot the stags, and um then that's you know, then next year you feel like by having lots, lots of females, then you get loads more that are building up the population. But I've heard a lot of people say that it actually diminishes the roar a little bit sometimes because they're not as vocal, they're not as competitive, they're getting little little groups of their own, groups that some satellite bugs might not get generally, and then they're doing a runner. As soon as you try and call, as soon as you try and rattle, they're not interested in fighting, they're interested in keeping the females they've got and doing a doing a backdoor routine.

SPEAKER_03 7:44

Yeah. Well, that's certainly the case now, especially with Valody heard, because I think you you when you go out and you have a look later, more than likely to hear a red rule if they are about, but you won't hear fallow because the population is like there's enough doughs that the buddy fallow bugs don't have to be competitive. Right.

SPEAKER_00 8:04

So are they establishing like is there I don't know, you don't get many le you get some lecks around this way, but is there a lot of scrape lines that they're keeping territories, or are they moving around and just following the females about? What's the deal?

SPEAKER_03 8:15

Yeah, they're moving around following chasing females.

SPEAKER_00 8:17

Yeah, that's unfortunate. Because that's one of the great things, you know, they are very um loyal to their territory, but having that, you know, that scrape line, those uh rubs that you can pretty much tell if you're there and you have a little rattle, you're gonna catch something, but yeah, it's uh yeah, it's unfortunate. But I mean it's not it's fortunate for uh for the buck, that's for sure, and also for next year's numbers, but yeah, it's just that I suppose.

SPEAKER_03 8:40

Right, so yeah, like I at the point now we're sort of like at a like high number on all species. So it's more like we're just trying we're trying to get numbers under control, but unfortunately, it's the time of year where people aren't focused on meat harvesting or stuff, they're more they're focused on the trophy. Yeah, sure. So people are putting their time in trying to find trophy, and then like once that's sort of done, they sort of disappear and no one really comes back.

SPEAKER_00 9:07

Yeah, yeah, I think yeah, encouraging that as well, you know. I mean, one thing, this is where it kind of came from, going to Africa and seeing it. The way they do it, it's like getting a lobster from the restaurant, you know, you go and pick one from the tank. This way, you get to go out, you get to do your meat shopping. Uh when you work out the meat to financial ratio of paying to go out, and also it being a guarantee, you get to go and get a guaranteed hunt. But being able to fill the freezer, it's often frowned upon. You know, when people put their pictures up, they're like, ah, just did a meat run. They it's almost a diminished thing to take hinds and does. When I think it should be celebrated, you go on a great hunt, you've got some amazing meat, and you should be proud of what you've done. And yeah, I think that should be definitely pushed and encouraged more, getting out after those does and hinds and doing a service to the to the um to the herd. Yeah, so there's plenty of like I'm not sure how to put it.

SPEAKER_03 10:03

There's plenty of deer about and like it's just the point now, like, if you don't come on and try to take some meat animals here and there, like farmers in neighbouring properties are gonna get the shits. And they they all come out with the method that like if it's on if it's on the crop they'll shoot at it, and if but you if you kill it then that's good, but if it's a gut shot and it runs off, well that might be a w warning for the rest of them not to come, which is the mentality of a couple people around here. Yeah. Because like there's like yeah, been there was a few incidences last year where I've had to I've had to buddy track down deer and finish them off just because like they they they escaped the the spotlighting session from the neighbours next door.

SPEAKER_00 10:42

Right, yeah, uh yeah, of course. Yeah, and this is that's something that's really important to bring up is that to have these havens, even or to have these farmers even that are doing it, they run beef, they might run sheep, they've got some deer, they don't mind, they're not a massive detriment to especially the grazing around here, we're in like the golden triangle of of uh the quality of the grass around here, they're definitely not struggling. To have these places, we also need to take into consideration that the fact that we do have other farmers, croppers that don't want these deer running around ever, but knowing you know they can put up with a few here and there, but when you're starting to do a massive starting to damage, when you've got so many, I suppose, that uh it's spilling over. Yeah, I hadn't really thought about that.

SPEAKER_03 11:24

Yeah, well that it's all it's always been an issue, and especially like in the mentality of trophy hunting. And that and you'll hear if you go down to the local pub here and you hear them talk about buddy, those bloody deer hunters like they come up for all weekend, buddy, trying to find deer, and as soon as I left there there's still buddy 50 out in the paddock or something. Yeah. I was like, like, the deer here, why why aren't you shooting them? Because well they're they're focused on the trophy, and I think people need to get out of that mentality a bit. And it's like, if come start off looking for the trophy, but don't be disappointed to you know shoot a hind along the way and secure some meat.

SPEAKER_00 12:02

I totally agree. I don't like I say, I don't bel I don't agree with it when I see people put these posts up where they diminish their achievement, especially if you're a bow hunter, but even if you're a rifle hunter, I mean it's still hard yakker getting out there, getting over the hills, coming home with meat for your family. It's not it doesn't like what I'm trying to say is it doesn't make you a better hunter coming back with a bigger trophy. It is something to be proud of. And yeah, if we want to be ethical hunters, we need to make sure we're being ethical and we are managing the land properly. We're taking those those hinds and those does. Question for you Stag or buck? It's a little debate I've been having recently with myself mostly, but also with some other people. What's a stag and what's a buck? What species of deer?

SPEAKER_03 12:52

Oh as far as um the Asiatics Asiatic D species, I call them stags. Right. I'll call red D stags, and I call phalad bucks.

SPEAKER_00 13:04

Right. See, this is where it gets interesting. So apparently, technically speaking, the only stag is a red stag. And everything else is supposed to be a buck. Now I know people at home, they're shouting at the radio, they know, they know it's not the case. Right now, what I'm here's the thing The word stag, it comes from old English, and it means to stab, essentially, right? It's like because of this the point. And it was in England and just used for red deer. And the word buck actually comes from the word for a male goat, an old English word for a male goat, and they use that just because fallow deer are smaller and they're a smaller deer species, they started calling them bucks. The way we refer to things is young bucks when things are, you know, kind of small and adolescent. So apparently, technically speaking, the only true stag is a red stag. But the way that it's used nowadays, it's for pretty much any large species of deer that has pointed antlers until you get up to really big, because caribou and moose, they are closely related. They're still serve day, but they are closely related, and they're the biggest, or at least moose are. So they are cows and bulls. I think personally, you're right. Sambas, Roosers, Red Deer, they're big, they've got pointed antlers. That's your stacks. And then the other fallows are bugs. But it's a highly contentious point. I'd like to hear what other people have got to think if I can uh get everybody at home to tell me how they feel. Yeah, I think you're right. And also I think we should bring back the word stag to mean stabbed. It's kind of jagged, it's kinda because I think if someone's stabbed, that can be with a razor blade, a really fine-point knife, or it can go all the way down to someone sharpening a stick. You know, I think we need to because you've got shivved, which is what they do in prison, isn't it? Yeah, you're getting shanked. Getting shanked, that's yeah, shivved and shanked. But then there's a big gap between that and getting stabbed, and stabbed should be with a knife. I think we should bring back stagged, because then you'd know instantly what's going on. I've been stagged. It's not gonna be a fine cut, it's gonna be pretty big, hemorrhaging. You know, you can react better. Let's bring it back. Yeah. I've been stagged. Uh so um how are you finding your uh red deer rut this year? Has it been It's been it's been odd.

SPEAKER_03 15:34

Like 'cause normally we'd have maybe like one or two stags down now with people who have come through. At the moment, like for whatever reason, like we're just finding hinds and no stags with them until today. Like where we did find a stag with the hinds. But like yeah, like we've been like finding like mobs of hinds and like no stags, and it's just been like that like they are roaring, like they are around, but we just we're just not getting eyes on them or finding them in the usual areas and spots.

SPEAKER_00 16:06

Yeah, it's interesting, isn't it? And I wonder what it is, because you'd think seeing as you've got big mobs of hinds, there's gonna be stags, they've got a good sense of smell, they know what's going on, there's gonna there's gotta be neighbours that satellite bucks, satellite stags that wanna get in on the action.

SPEAKER_03 16:22

Yeah, because very early in the piece when I first started to guide, I mean that one of the first stags we got was he was a young ten-point, but like he had a harem of 20 hinds, and like he was running them like on on his own, running around while he's sheepdogging them, doing all that when we got him. So it just seemed a bit unusual 'cause as time's gone on like they've they've smartened up the workout, staying in the big number isn't the smart thing to do during the rut, so that they've taken the taken smaller numbers of hinds, so usually like yeah, they'll hold their buddy seven or ten hinds rather than having off the big number of them, otherwise because that's just too many to handle then like the satellite stags can have a better chance of sneaking off with one, so they've changed their mindset to having a smaller harem number, but yeah, like just like we've been finding those those those hinds, but yeah, we just can't for whatever reason that the stags aren't with them.

SPEAKER_00 17:18

Yeah, I think it's a misconception that men have as well that it would be amazing to have multiple partners, but from what I've heard, it's just more work, it's just more expectations and more work, and for these good, solid breeding stags, the ones that are controlling the herds, be giving them that massive task. I mean, it's gotta be uh mortality rate's gonna go up, and also there's more chance of inferior stags getting in there where they wouldn't normally if they were less less in the mob. You know, more stronger stags, more of them controlling smaller groups means they can service all the hinds, get it done, they're still gonna hold on to them, they don't want the other boys having a go, but it's just less stress. Can you imagine having 70 girlfriends to look after? Yeah. Being in the club and you got 70 girlfriends wouldn't be fun. What would you consider is the best hunting? Are you uh are you a stag man? How'd you feel about what's uh what'd you prefer out of the stags and the fallows or other deer you've hunted?

SPEAKER_03 18:21

Oh, there's you know, like red deer on my thing, like that's what I've grown up doing. Like I've just grown up chasing red stags and stuff, but like that doesn't really put it put it against any of the other deer because all the other deer have different traits and bloody fun that that are like chiddle up at Queensland, like that's a that's a whole different ball game to down here, like a bit more flat.

SPEAKER_02 18:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 18:46

And like one of the challenges there is like I think I saw over 700 chittel deer when I was up there. Really? But like to find like a good trophy head, it might have been like four or five that I was like in the trophy class to find.

SPEAKER_00 19:00

Right, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 19:01

But with that that's okay, that's a okay, that's a whole nother issue up there with like that that sort of numbers been how it works up there, but like Queensland's a bit of a bit of a wild card because you know there's no public land hunting or anything up there and it's it and access is quite competitive and like that's where the hunting guiding and money to property owners m makes the makes a difference up there.

SPEAKER_00 19:25

Yeah, I bet. Yeah, Chital as well. I hear like I've got a friend up, he's just got himself a property with big herds, and I always see big herds, but they're so hard to get on to, and they're hard to get onto when they're on their own. When you're talking about it looks great having herds of 50-60, whatever, but getting past all of those forms, all of those does, trying to get to the the deer you're trying to get on when you're talking about quote unquote normal deer is hard enough. Trying to do that with these guys can't be easy.

SPEAKER_03 19:56

It's like it's it's full on. And yeah, like there's plenty of them up there and whatnot, so like it's it's not it's not difficult to get a meat animal up there, that's for sure.

SPEAKER_00 20:06

Right. Yeah, but getting the getting the uh getting the goods on the wall.

SPEAKER_03 20:09

Yeah, it's getting the because they you well in my case like I I've travelled all the way up there, and I get that people do that here too. Like they do, like I've d come a long way. Like I want to get a good one. So like I don't put as much pressure on those sort of people. But like at the same time, it's like if you're coming up here and you're coming up here often, then not you need to shoot a couple, but then there's other people who have the mentality it's like, no, you keep you know here to shoot stags, like leave leave the other stuff alone. Yeah. And it's like I said, well, if that's how you're running things, that's fine, but like how does the property owner feel about that? I was like, I'm sure they they they crack the shits every once in a while, like especially if when chittel and pigs are already hitting the the kit cattle feeders and getting the feed before the cattle do.

SPEAKER_00 20:51

Sure, yeah. It's funny, I was just thinking about how hard they are to hunt. I've actually I came up with uh an equation, a rough equation on how you can tell how hard an animal is to hunt. And I call it predator divided by number of offspring. So I think you can roughly tell how hard it is to hunt pretty much anything by hit its relative predator size, the uh relative efficiency of the predator divided by how many young it has. So for instance, pigs, they get hunted by everything, and they're intelligent, don't get me wrong, but they are their hindsight's not great, and when it comes to evade, they're not as hardwired to evade being hunted, but they do have eight young twice a year. So they make up for their for that with numbers. When you're talking about, say, samba deer, roosadere, uh, they come from Asia, they're hunted by tigers, and they only have one a year, so they've got to be bang on it. I think the the best I've ever seen is example of this, is uh Impala in Africa. You watch them out in on water, I was on water waiting for some to come in, and there was one lamb they call them over there, and There was something would happen, like a giraffe would make a noise or something, and they their muscles would twitch and they would go to run before they've registered the fact that anything's happened. Do you know what I mean? Like with a deer, it's super quick. Like they can jump the string. But what happens is they start to move and their head's turning, they're registering what's happening as they're moving. It's all going in one flow. They're so quick in Parla that they are down and off and ready to run. They spring, they they they co recoil down, ready to run, before and their head isn't even looking at it. It registers so quickly. So I think that's one thing, uh one way of telling is the the predator divided by offspring.

SPEAKER_03 22:40

Yeah, well that attracts because I don't know why, but phalader are very flighty. And like they especially because I think the populations here that like they've travelled through state forests and public land and sort of just get established here. So they've got like years and generational knowledge of, you know, being shot at and hunted at by public land hunters. Yeah. Where the red deer, they've sort of been like that, they've had the privilege of being on private for a while. So when you spoke a mob with red deer, like you can you can usually buddy get a shot at them because they'll run for a bit and stop and look at you and try and work out what's going on. And then they'll run off a little bit and stop again. So it gives you multiple chances to get a shot off.

SPEAKER_00 23:19

This is a good a good example as well. So they're yeah, red deer, they're hunted by wolves, is primarily their their natural predator. And relatively speaking, a red deer is pretty big, you know, compared to a wolf's gonna have the jump on it with a few friends, but they are much more interested in breeding, they're super super vocal when it in the season, they're much less worried when it comes to samba deer. I mean, they don't have a fixed season, they are non-vocal pretty much during the breeding season. I think it it travels, it's is a working uh theory. I mean, yeah, I suppose fallow deer, they are super flighty, but they're quite small compared to what hunts them naturally. So yeah. Yeah, definitely. Um what would you say is your success rate? Do you get a pretty high success rate around there? Is it pretty consistent generally? It's all it's all season dependent.

SPEAKER_03 24:08

Like it could be like, oh, like it's been a it's been a bad drought. And it's like, oh, we won't put as much pressure on it this year. Like I usually my I usually try to aim for at least one stag to get taken. And I was like, right, I would have had at least one success because at the same time I was like, I still like the deer to get age on them. Sure. So I was like, and you know, we get them on cameras and stuff. I've only just started using trail cams this year, just to get a bit of an idea of what what's getting around and what what's the age class is getting around. Like there's like some good young deer with great potential that like I I wouldn't I wouldn't want anyone to shoot if they can if they can get the age on it, but then there's other stags like they they still can get bigger and better, but like they're at an age now I was like if like I I'm not against someone shooting it if if that's came down to it. So like, yeah, we've only had one stage get taken this year, and I wasn't even around for it. I was sort of guiding on the phone, like watching the maps, checking the weather in the wind, giving suggestions of where they should go and self-guided, that's nice. What they should do, and you know, they they messaged me back and said, Yeah, no, like it everything went exactly as you said it would. They were right on the mark where you said it was on the map, and yeah, we got him. Nice. Yeah, so like a young fella with his with his father and brother came out here and they he shot a nice 12-point red stag, and I think he completed his deer slam with that stag.

SPEAKER_00 25:31

Unbelievable. And what a winner to go out on as well. That's nice. Um see this is the thing that I think needs to be pressed, is that exactly, you know, it's nice if you've got the time through the offseason where you can go out, you can go and you can check for sign, you can see what their behavior is doing, you can get yourself prepared, you've got a nice bit of permission, which is or a bit of public, which is close by, public that's unpressured relatively, and you can go through all that. You've got the time, you've got the inclination to go out and do all of that, and you're still doing it on hopes, generally speaking. Or what you can do is you can go out, find someone like yourself who's doing all the mapping, they know the property like the back of their hand, and they can pretty much say, Here, look, here's the the cheat sheet, if you will, of how to get up on them. You've only got a couple of days in the in the year, you know, a couple of days definitely, if you're lucky enough to get a couple of days in the rut, this is in fact the first time in six years I've been able to have any rut time, pretty much. I think, yeah, this is the first time I've always been doing a project or out of in another part of the country. It is hard. So if you're going to go out and pay the money, why not? And if you think about the prep time, you go out, you spend all that money on fuel, getting maybe two hours to your local bit of permission and going around trail cams, doing all of that. I don't see why you wouldn't.

SPEAKER_03 26:54

Yeah, well one of the advantages I've got too of because I you know I work on the land and I'm sort of like I'm keeping tabs and stuff on the on all the time. And it's like it's it's that like local knowledge thing, basically, like the the farmer that you go hunt probably that you go hunting on, like he's gonna he's gonna know everything and so you should doesn't hurt to ask them what's going on. And yeah, like sort of and another advantage is like if I've got other people who've come out beforehand and have said, Oh, we've seen stuff here, like we bump something there, like oh I take that knowledge on us and I'll pass it on to the next person. Amazing. So which is like what we've done with you, you're like, oh yeah, like we've heard rules in that buddy gully over there, there's been some deer moving around there. I've got a camera set up over here if you want to go check that, like, and yeah, it it just sort of gives you a bit more of an idea of what you're working with rather than just going completely blind on a block that you don't know.

SPEAKER_00 27:45

A hundred percent. This is where it's at. And if you think most hunters, most serious hunters, everyone's got different price points, and don't get me wrong, as I've said before, you can go out with a flannel shirt, your papy's old rifle, and a good attitude, and you can be successful. But let's be realistic. Most of us guys out there, we've spent two, two and a half grand on apparel, you know, hunting clothes. It's the only outfit your friends can compliment you on, so we usually spend a bit of money on it. And we've got a bino harness, we've got our backpack, we've got our boots that are usually, you know, I mean, there's four and five hundred dollars sometimes easy. Then you've got a rifle. And if you've got a rifle with a decent scope or you've got a flagship bowl, you're looking at spending five grand. Like, is it's so much money we put into it, and then someone suggests going for a guided or a paid hunt, and everyone's like, Oh, I'm not not spending that much money.

SPEAKER_03 28:41

Yeah, especially because the aim I want to get to eventually with with the guiding is like there the deer need to be managed, and like I'm like and meat hunts is sort of something I'd like to do and get people to do, and that's okay, and mythology to not only keep deer on the landscape, but like to help control numbers down, and like in it's a win-win, it's a win for the property and the property owner and the livestock on the place, and it's a win for the hunter because you get meat to go home with, and if you want to take it further, you can even get a rug.

SPEAKER_00 29:11

This is it. This is it exactly. I mean, you've got yourself decent meat, and if you look at how much, think about how much it is gonna cost you if you were to take that deer, break it down into cuts, and buy it from the butchers. You've got a superior animal than a lot of the stuff, this pump full of crap we're eating nowadays. And I mean, you can save like you gotta get yourself a big samba deer, you can save yourself thousands, in the multiple thousands, and even for a fallow, you know, they get to a pretty good size. Even the females, you know, a red deer hind, you are definitely saving more meat than you're generally paying for the privilege. And you get to get out there and also get some experience.

SPEAKER_03 29:49

Yeah, because that's because I I I um had a New Zealand a couple years ago hunting tar, and I did not know what the hell I was trying to find, what I was looking for, but going the fact that I went with an outfitter and a guide, I learned what I could for hip from him, and so the next time I did a DIY trip, I already knew what to look for, what what I needed to do. And then yeah, like we we walked out with a chamois on that trip. Well, actually we walked out with free chamois, but amazing, nice.

SPEAKER_00 30:15

Did you get him uh did you get him put him on the wall?

SPEAKER_03 30:17

Yeah, I got one, he went over ten inch.

SPEAKER_00 30:19

No, wow, nice.

SPEAKER_03 30:21

So yeah, like we we he he he's up on the wall above the kids' play area quite broadly. Get him in it, they get him in young. Oh, definitely.

SPEAKER_00 30:29

But that's it, see, so you've not only you might be purchasing you could look at it purchasing the meat, look at it and purchasing the experience, but you're also getting the knowledge, little bits of insider knowledge, because I know many guys, they get themselves all the gear, they've got no idea, they go out for a walk around the woods, they bump a few things a couple of times, and they call it a day. Because they don't know enough to know that they don't know enough.

SPEAKER_03 30:52

Yeah. Well, there's been plenty of times I've gone out with blokes who I've considered like to be experienced, and then I'll just share like a little tidbit and like, oh I never knew that. And I was like, oh, I thought that'd be like a general knowledge thing, but there's obviously things that I've picked up on that other people don't know and that I've taken for granted, so I try to share a bit more information because some people just don't know it.

SPEAKER_00 31:13

Of course. There's loads of things. I mean we never stop learning, and we never know, just because you might be experienced doesn't mean you've had the same experience as the next man. There's always more to learn, and there's always more to pick up, especially from people who are knowledgeable on the subject. I definitely agree. And I think as well, what we don't usually think is that what a lot of people don't think is that they don't think that they are gonna get more experience necessarily by getting loads more animals. They think, oh, you know, I'm going out and I'm getting only a couple of animals and I spend a lot of my time looking for sign, tracking, and because I have to try so much harder for my animals, therefore I'm gonna be a better hunter. And I'd say it's the short answer, yes, but long answer is definitely no, because sh in the short term, yeah, you're definitely getting a lot more experience of tracking and finding and being more fine-tuned, but actually getting out and getting animals on the ground, you're gonna be less nervous about your stalks, you're gonna be more, you're gonna know, you're gonna be able to spoil more stalks and learn more from those stalks. Don't you think?

SPEAKER_03 32:18

Oh, definitely. And it's not only that, like if you focus on like the first initial parts of hunting, like the tracking and the finding and all that, and like that's what you're focused on, then like you need your lack of knowledge in like the end game, like which is like how do you handle the animal once it's on the ground.

SPEAKER_00 32:36

100%, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 32:37

So like it doesn't hurt to especially in a scenario where the property owner's going like we've got deer, they're hitting the crop, like I know it's probably not your way of doing it, like, but can you go out and spotlight a couple? Like I don't like spotlighting, but like it's a thing that needs to be done. Like it's not even fun for me, I see it as a chore. Yeah. Like it's a w it's a work chore. But like if you've got the opportunity to do that and like get some meat animals, then like if that'll that's a good way to sort of let's get get your hands dirty, so to speak, and like get some knowledge.

SPEAKER_00 33:07

Yeah, for sure, yeah. I mean it's an amazing one. I mean, spotlighting, it's it's unsavory as a hunter. It's just shooting, it's killing, but it does need to be done when you're getting to the point where the neighbours have got a severe issue and they are gonna shoot your big bucks, your big stacks. They're not gonna be they're not gonna discriminate. If anything, eventually they're gonna be annoyed by you and they're gonna want to take your uh your trophies away because you're causing them hassle, I don't think they cause you hassle.

SPEAKER_03 33:32

Yeah, I don't know how many stories I've heard of blokes that are like, oh like I had this big buck lined up and I was trying to get him with the bow, but I just couldn't make it happen, and like, oh yeah, the name neighbour's kid shot it for dog food and left it there, left the head there and just took the back legs. Seeing his deadhead killer.

SPEAKER_00 33:49

How do you find running deer and livestock cows, cattle? It's all Angus you got, right?

SPEAKER_03 33:53

Oh, we got a few mixed breeds, and we did have a a period there where we ran sheep. Oh yeah. So it's um deer and cattle running together, that's they're they're fine. Like they don't really cause m each other much much issue. Um sheep Well sheep are a problem for everything really. Because like in a scenario where you're running sheep and cattle together and drought time hits, buddy the sheep are killed with cattle because they eat everything underneath them because they can eat eat lower. Right. And that sort of works the same with deer as well. So like if there's a if you've got a property and there's sheep around, like deer don't really like hanging around sheep.

SPEAKER_00 34:34

I've heard the uh I've I've heard that it's primarily the smell, because the smell's so overpowering that it deadens their senses to predators and stuff.

SPEAKER_03 34:42

Yeah. It it's a combination of that, and it's the fact that like they've like they've got to compete harder for feed aga against the sheep because yeah, sheep would can get further down into the feed a bit m more than cattle can. Interesting. But like as far as like buddy cattle and d deer concerned, like that's not too much of an issue. I'm sure buddy invasive species council and stuff say there's diseases and stuff to worry about, but like in my lifetime, there's never been a pr issue with with b bio stuff, buddy, going on. Biosecurity on the on the gates, isn't it? Yeah, biosecur. And there's never been an issue of biosecurity between lot livestock and deer. But like I'd be more concerned with feral pigs and stuff like tuberculosis and brucellosis and things like that. That that's more of a a concern. Do you eat them round out? No.

SPEAKER_01 35:32

No. No.

SPEAKER_03 35:33

Now when once you see a a pig eating the back end of a rotten cow, it sort of doesn't really make it mouth water.

SPEAKER_00 35:41

Yeah, fair I've so I've been in situations where I've eaten pigs up north, um, eat the feral ones. When I was in one place, what we do is we'd cull the big ones and keep the little ones and up them in a pan, and then grow them up and like when they're a bit bigger eat them. But I have eaten them, especially with Aboriginal communities, where we just cut murum so like slow and low for a long time, and I've never had a problem.

SPEAKER_03 36:04

Yeah, I've always I always depended on um location. So like around here, like yeah, like they're eating a lot of rotten stuff, like if there's like dead roos or dead deer, like they'll go for it. But if we go a little bit more further out west for it's more cropping country, as like, oh, I think those ones will be a bit more safer.

SPEAKER_00 36:22

Yeah, sure. Yeah. On the corn and the stubble and less on the on the dead. Yeah. Dead for several months, because they'll eat anything. I mean, I've seen I've seen them get into the pig, into the uh the kilpit on some stations, and that stuff's been there. It is honking, honking, and they are you'd think it was last night's leftovers being warmed up and they love it.

SPEAKER_03 36:42

Yeah, it's like all around here, like they'll like if there's a dead beast, like they will go for it, but like at the same time they're turning like they're pouring out fistle roots and e eating the bottoms of the roots and things like that, and getting in anything that they can, like it's that'll give them a bit of nutrition and ke keep them warm in the colder months. But yeah, it's well then yeah, you go places like sort of like Burke or Cobar, where there's a bit of goat population, they'll they'll they'll hunt the goats. I've got a Britt Meldrum, Bo Hunter, what's uh a ways from here, like he's told me stories about they had a big mountain boar there chasing down lambs and killing them.

SPEAKER_00 37:18

Hmm, I've seen um boars like newborn um kid goats just like taking them off the mother and just everyone screaming, the the pig screaming with joy, or the kids screaming with pain, and the mother screaming with sorrow at the same time. Yeah, um do you get many goats up this way?

SPEAKER_03 37:35

Um in the local pine forest here there's m goats. And on the property I used to manage, there was a mob of goats on living on the hill, but um my cousin who lives next door got a bit trigger happy and shot all them out. So there's no more goats, because that used to be like a fun little thing to do is like you start at the bottom of the hill and hike all the way up, do a bit of rock climbing and try to try to get onto them, but you know they're not around anymore.

SPEAKER_00 38:00

Yeah, right. So do you know those hog deer have just been uh found outside of their natural habitat? The the the blame was initially firmly and I think still is placed on hunters. They think we're we're spreading them around.

SPEAKER_03 38:16

Yeah, well that's again, that's the invasive species council, buddy, shooting off, shooting their mouth off trying to buddy justify their existence.

SPEAKER_00 38:24

Yeah, yeah. jumping all over it because there's deer spread out, you know. I mean you can get them in between and you just haven't seen them, and they managed to work their way into a spot, and yeah, literally they were making posts, putting stuff up on Facebook and Instagram straight away, blaming us.

SPEAKER_03 38:41

Yeah, well like hunters are getting the blame for pigs moving in the SA. And I was like, no, but there's been like an unusual amount of rainfall in like a in a certain time period, and they've followed the water, and now that it's dried up, they've looking they're spreading out looking for more feed and like it a a natural buddy migration type thing, you're like that's that's not a possible way for things to move around, which is it's how most of Australia's introduced species have got around.

SPEAKER_00 39:12

100%, yeah. I mean there was a small pocket of samba deer released in Victoria and a small pocket in northern New South Wales, and now we've got more Sambadir here than anywhere else in the world.

SPEAKER_03 39:22

Yeah, like what what what now where we are we're in the quarantine zone for Samba Dee. So like what I've never seen it, but I have seen evidence of them being here, but what we've well I've never like laid eyes on one myself. But like, yeah, like it's like when you zoom look on the map and look at the areas around, I was like, yeah, no, it's very plausible for Samba Dee to travel all the way up here and go unnoticed because there's a lot of untouched country they can get through.

SPEAKER_00 39:46

Yeah, I mean, and it's perfect samba country. I mean, all these valleys, I mean, we're almost in the blueies very much, and yeah, yeah, I mean it's uh perfect terrain for them. Really, really is.

SPEAKER_03 39:57

Yeah, well we're all chasing stags this morning, like you can nearly take a photo of it and you can tell people you're down in the high country.

SPEAKER_00 40:03

Yeah, for sure. Yeah. I mean it really is. I've had a little walk around and it's truly spectacular. I mean it's prime, it's set, it's it is the best of deer country. It's funny because as an English person who's into hunting, the the dream is always Scottish red stacks. That's just like the pinnacle in England. And it it was three degrees, it felt like minus two this morning. Uh there's Scottish thistles on the floor, and there's uh there's deer running around in the paddocks. It's it's it's close to Scottish deer hunting. Any any palms out there that want to taste what it would be like to be able to do that, especially with a bow. This is the best place in the world outside of Scotland itself, to give it a go. Yeah, definitely. Yeah, uh so what's your preferred method of hunting? Do you get out with a rifle or all the time? Did you ever get out with a bow?

SPEAKER_03 40:52

Yeah, well I've I'm don't going bow this year.

SPEAKER_00 40:54

I did. I mean I I'm it was a loaded question.

SPEAKER_03 40:58

Yeah. Yeah, no, I've got I've yeah, normally it it's normally I I have the mind to say, yeah, no, I'll go out with the bow and I'll do that, but then like something will come up and I was like, no, I've got to get the rifle out. But like under certain circumstances, at the moment, like I'm like I've I'm under the bow, I have to use the bow.

SPEAKER_00 41:14

I have I left my rifle at home, so I'm going up to I've been up to Queensland on my way down and I've agreed to meet up with a friend later on next week, and I just know I'm just taking the bow, just my compound bow, and I'm not giving myself the ability to back out now. What uh what bow do you use? Are you compound? Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 41:38

Oh I'm running a Hoyt Power Max.

SPEAKER_00 41:40

Got a Power Max, nice, yeah. So have you got much with it yet?

SPEAKER_03 41:43

Uh so I've taken I took my first fallow buck with it. Like ever, ever fallow buck. So that was this Really? Yeah, so I took a mate out who had Fallard access and he said, like, I really want to get a red deer, so I'm like, Oh, we might be able to work something out. So like I got him a red steak and then he took me out for Valor deer and like I I got I got a little buck with with me, Bo. Because he said, That's the rule, it's a buddy, it's an artery-only spot, and I said, Right, yeah, I'll I'll follow the rules. Nice, mate. So yeah, I got him, um it's been over to New Zealand and the US with me, but like no luck there. And yeah, last year I took my a Russer egg with it. Down down on the south coast. And yeah, like yeah, a couple couple goats, buddy, a few pigs with it, and yeah, I did take a a like a yearling last a red yearling last year with it as well.

SPEAKER_00 42:34

Nice.

SPEAKER_03 42:35

So I go I'd like to do a bit more with it because I about two years ago I joined trophy takers. Oh yeah. I was like, oh and you know, when you talk talk smack with those boys, I was like, oh, I want to get in the bow more.

SPEAKER_00 42:47

Yeah, all the stories. It's where it's at. Like once you do get into the bow a bit, it uh it really feels like the next step, like it's it's just so much harder. There's a lot more sorrow involved because you know, a lot of uh a lot of failed stalks, but it is it's something else. If you are if you when you get into it, then the flavour really gets on the on your tongue. Now you just mentioned about you do get after it, you go abroad, don't you? You do uh do some hunts over there. I heard there was uh a bear hunt in Croatia, is that right?

SPEAKER_03 43:17

Yep. Yeah. So what happened there was I recently got out of a bad relationship and I was like, I need to go somewhere, I need to go try something different, and I found a um yeah, a brown bear hunt in Croatia for a a pretty good price. So I booked that and went over there and they hunt at night time, so that was a bit different.

SPEAKER_00 43:38

Oh, so the bears there are nocturnal, is that right? Yeah, yeah. Crazy. I've never I didn't know that there were nocturnal browns.

SPEAKER_03 43:44

Yeah, no, yeah, yeah, they're nocturnal, you hunt 'em out of the a s a a stand and then yeah, you you and you're hunting them off bait.

SPEAKER_00 43:52

Right. Yeah, it's it's it's common, and I don't think it's frowned upon when it comes to bears. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 43:56

Yeah, no, and you you sit like sitting there for about Yes, six in the afternoon to about maybe three o'clock in the morning. Wait for him to come in. But yeah, no, I never I never laid eyes on a bear the whole time I was there.

SPEAKER_00 44:09

Oh yeah, it's how it goes sometimes. Yeah, you almost got on a badger though, is that right?

SPEAKER_03 44:13

Oh yeah, a badger came to the bait and I was like, Can I shoot that? And the guard's like, Yeah, but why do you want to? I was like, 'Cause it's a badger, we don't have those here. I want I want to get one. And I said, No, no, no, we'll we'll wait for the bear. I was like, oh right, yeah. And so ready badger went off and yeah, not never never never was allowed to shoot it. Plenty of road deer around though, but like it was I was early spring when I was there, so it was like, nah, that they don't have antler and whatnot, and the bears were coming out of fiber nation and so it's like it was it was good timing, but like, yeah, like then I'd do it a snow dump like literally the day before my hunt. It's like so like so they reckon all the bears went nut too cold, go back to sleep. So that's what that's uh that's that's why they never they never came out, they reckon.

SPEAKER_00 44:57

Yeah, that was uh that's unfortunate, but roe roe deer, that's them there's a lot of them and they are the other native species in England of roe deers and always tempted to get I never got I I I stopped by the law, but ro roe with a bow would be would be a spectacular hunt. They're um they're a smaller deer, but they're they're pretty spectacular.

SPEAKER_03 45:19

Yeah, no, they're pretty cool, like money back like a like layout, like you like they say you move in the blind and go iron on like shut up, mate.

SPEAKER_00 45:29

Well I taught survival skills in England before I moved over here, and that was that it is bone chilling. You're trying to go trying to get some kit and you've got this like harpy scream coming from the the woods is something else. Muntjack as well, they're even smaller, yeah, and they they bark just as loud and just as proud. And then you compare it to the the wussy whimper of a samba deer it's it's very different. Um have you got any other exotics in mind? You got any other you're thinking about going on another another hunt somewhere? Uh what's your dream? Have you got a dream exotic hunt?

SPEAKER_03 46:06

Oh I just like if I had the money and the time, like I'd like to get a mark or yeah? Just because like they're like in the wild part of the world and they're a wild looking unit in their own right. What's a mark or so they're they're a a a gate species and primarily like sort of around it depends on what size because there's Kashmir Markov and other types of ring mainly Pakistan. Right. So like up in the Himalaya sort of bit there. Like Afghanistan, Pakistan. Yeah, yeah, Afghanistan, Pakistan, that sort of stuff. And it's sort of like cross between like a tar and a and like a normal billy goat, like just in like in terms of appearance. Right. But their horns are like a like a drill bit, come straight out of the head.

SPEAKER_00 46:51

Oh, like one of the African spiral.

SPEAKER_03 46:52

Yeah, like a bit like an Elon.

SPEAKER_00 46:54

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 46:55

So I say like one of those would be would be cool, like, but like you're looking at like $170,000 for a hunt.

SPEAKER_00 47:03

That's where I'm not I'm not about that. Like, that's one thing I love about Africa is that you can get over there, get after it for relatively cheap, because they do see it as like a lot of people who go hunting over there to the um private places, they're doing it for meat harvest. So you do pay a bit more as an international, but you can get you can get decent deals over there, unless you want to like, you know, you want to go and shoot an elephant or something, it's it's a bit bit more outlandish. I really want to get a bush buck. They're the smallest of the spiral horned antelope. Like they're not kudos, not Elon, they're not as grand. They've got nice markings, but when I was first, I was in the lodge and they've got all of the heads all over the wall. You've got kudos and wildebeests and everything up on the wall, and I said, Right, so when I go out, apart from obviously leopards and stuff to work like that, what is, if I'm gonna stalk in on one, what's the most dangerous? What's the ones have I got to look out for? And they went, Well, a lot of them will, if they get um cornered or you're by their young, they can be aggressive, but that guy over there, that guy's the worst. And it was a full mount of a bush buck, which is about the same size as a road deer, smaller than a fallow deer. But they don't they they'll run initially, but not far, and then they turn and they've got real sharp points, and they'll get you straight in the carotid artery. Straight in the uh sorry, the femoral artery. But they yeah, apart from obviously elephants and rhinos and hippos when people hunt those, they are the most dangerous hunt there. Yeah, pretty crazy.

SPEAKER_03 48:28

Yeah, so my obsessions with mountain hunt, that's like that's like that's like oh yeah, like buddy Pakistan from our call, like that's like that's like the the peak of mountain hunting. But like problem with mountain hunting, like especially when it comes to like the like sheep species and stuff like that, it requires a bit of coin. Yeah. And like I don't have that. That's why like I that's why New Zealand's so much fun, because like you can do a DOI trip, no worries, and get into some spectacular country for some spectacular animals.

SPEAKER_00 48:53

Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah, I mean it's right next door as well. Um, you ever thought about going for bighns in America?

SPEAKER_03 49:00

Yeah, either a bighorn or I've got a soft spot for a doll sheep. Like, I'd like to get a doll sheep, yeah. That'd be cool. Yeah, but yeah, like again, like it's like a logistics, logistics time, and also, yeah, they're quite hard to get on.

SPEAKER_00 49:14

I mean, they are seen as one of the hardest animals to hunt for obvious reasons. With a bow is like god-level, god-level hunting over there to be able to get up in the mountains. Anyone who's hunted goats in the mountains of like northern South Australia, over this way, you know, when you're getting in the mountains, they're almost impossible to get on. They're really, really hard to get after. Um, yeah, I've personally when it comes to exotics, I'd like to do a few more. I was offered a giraffe when I was in Africa, and I turned it down, and mostly because of the stigma which is attached to, you know, like that girl, she shot one in the in a similar circumstance, and they basically destroyed her life, and she was a professional hunter, and they doxed her and all of that. The the situation was they have uh a herd of giraffes, and they're the old bull, what generally happens is the old bull gets kicked out and he goes off and he's away from the resources, and he'll often die, but if not, he'll have to leave and go far enough away. In these circumstances, the there isn't a nice oasis with uh the dead area, there's just areas where he can go and recoup and get himself back together, and he's not gonna have it, he's gonna come back in, he's gonna keep fighting the stronger, generally younger animal, and eventually he will disperse the group, so he'll push the uh the herd apart, and they'll where they won't breed. And yeah, they're a problem, so you actually do really need to call them, but because of the reputation, because they're giraffes, uh, anyone who calls a giraffe, even under those circumstances, is is uh is a bad man. Like it's funny because they are lovely animals and they're the only animal that you can feed them in the zoo and you don't have to worry about it until you're getting to old mature full of testosterone bulls, they'll kick you to death. They're uh they're something else.

SPEAKER_03 51:06

Yeah. Well it's like um here in the Dubai zoo, they've got African elephants.

SPEAKER_00 51:11

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_03 51:12

But what you see out the front, they're all cows. You don't see the you don't see the big bull out the back. Yeah. Because um a relative on my father's side, he he used uh like he he was a good stockman, but like later in life he he went working with the zoo. And then one of the things was like they had the the big bull male, but he chained up out the back. So they had pretty much chains around his feet, and then like every day they had to move the chains around and hook him up to a different post. Right. As like a reason being, because like if they let him out where the tourists could see him, he'd get too aggressive. And they like and just the power behind a buddy African bull elephant, like it's yeah, you don't want to you don't want to muck off it. So I but they kept the reason they had him there is well purely for like for breeding to try to some sort of conservation effort they were doing back in the late 90s or something.

SPEAKER_00 52:08

Yeah, yeah, there was so there was a big actually when they banned hunting in Africa, it was the worst thing for the elephants because what happened is they take so many a year, but the conservationists were the uh were the hunters, the first ones were, and a lot of the um the policing was done by them, and what the corrupt government did was ban hunting, not to save the elephants, but to get rid of the hunters so that the poachers could come in, they could take back handers, and from dozens getting killed a year, it went to like 10,000 and it eradicated them. So, apart from in places like Botswana, so they just started doing uh a lot of conservation efforts. But I hear that of the big five, so leopards, lions, uh, rhinos, and uh elephants are the most dangerous hunt. They will generally pick you up with their trunk and then impale you on their tusk, which I think is probably the most graphic way any animal could kill you.

SPEAKER_03 53:03

Well, when you get into the dark side of Instagram, you occasionally come across the videos where you see the like the Asian elephant buddy grabbing the trainer and get getting the feet out and you quickly swap up, go to the next video, so you don't want to see how that ends. But as far as like what's the most dangerous game of the big five, like I I I read a lot of capstick in my spare time, like on the audiobooks and stuff, and like he he always comes back to like it's down to personal preference on the individual and the professional hunter. In his opinion, the most dangerous game is the leopard.

SPEAKER_00 53:34

Right. Yeah, I've heard I've heard people say that they're super, super dangerous because they're just like house cats that are the size of Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 53:41

Yeah, oh like you know, it's like they they've got like you can bluff a a lion apparently and you you can bluff an elephant, but like and but if you you hit a leopard wrong or do something wrong there, like they like they hold a grudge and they go out of their way that the to try to get the best on you is is how the saying they reckon.

SPEAKER_00 54:02

Mm-hmm I've heard that you because you're like just like you're on you're on a bound to always go in and pursue the animal, but of all the all the ones going in pursuit of a wounded leopard is like nobody wants to do that because yeah, they do they attack and it's all hands on deck. So they just grab you by the with their teeth and their front legs and their back legs are all going like crazy, just swiping, they'll rip you to shreds.

SPEAKER_03 54:24

So what what I think his recovery gear that he wore was I think it was like a welding jacket.

SPEAKER_01 54:30

Oh really?

SPEAKER_03 54:31

Welding jacket, fencing gloves, and like a um and then he had a pump action shotgun, like for like going after wounded leopards, because like it's like it, not like it won't the jacket won't save me, but or it might give me that split second to be able to react quick enough.

SPEAKER_00 54:47

Yeah. Oh yeah, cuz I mean the old double rifle, the 50 cal double rifle, when you've got a buffalo coming at you having those two shots is nice. When you've got a leopard bobbing and weaving, jumping in and out of the trees, coming at you with intent, I'd want 12 rounds of bucking bull going after him. Yeah, for sure. Um so uh Where we at? Well there we go. So um what is your favourite meat?

SPEAKER_03 55:21

Do love me, Venison.

SPEAKER_00 55:22

Yeah, Venison man. What's your favourite of the deer meat?

SPEAKER_03 55:26

So favourite worldwide is roadier.

SPEAKER_00 55:30

Rodeer?

SPEAKER_03 55:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 55:31

Rodeer.

SPEAKER_03 55:32

So we I had rhode in Croatia, like that was that was that was the camp meat. They cooked that up and we had it with with Noki. And that was a good meal. But like yeah, as of um lately, like back here, like I know ready chittle used to be my favourite when I when I bought chidle home and I ate it, but like the rooses growing on me. Really? Yeah, because like 'cause we got told when I bought it home, because like I I bought the whole the every scrap of meat I could home, which like was which was nice.

SPEAKER_00 56:03

Oh yeah, so how did you manage that? Was that just an uh cold storage thing and what how did that work?

SPEAKER_03 56:10

Oh well, basically butchered it out there and like we carried the whole thing out and because they're not like they're not as big as a red or a samba, like they're like sort of just slightly bigger than the fallow, like I I could fit it on the Imyeski with the cape, so Right, okay. So I managed to bring it all back in in one go like that. But because we we were told it's a tougher meat, like Rusa, and it was like considering like they're more scared up than like any of the other deer species that you come across, like they they're violent fighting things. So like when you when you walk up on a rooster like they're very damaged around the neck, especially during the rut. But like, yeah, because we got told it's a it's a tough meat, like it's it requires slow cooking, like we we've I've either minced it up or we've crock chopped it up into cubes and done stews and things with them in like yeah, a bit of bit of Rusa stew in in the colder months, it she goes down quite nicely.

SPEAKER_00 57:03

Have you ever had uh any of the more exotic stuff? Do you eat camel, buffalo, been on been in something else?

SPEAKER_03 57:08

I had camel burgers out of King's Creek Station, like when we went there for a holiday years ago.

SPEAKER_00 57:14

I was there a few weeks ago actually, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 57:17

So had had one one there and but no, and you know I did have um crocodile spring rolls up at Cairns there a couple of years ago.

SPEAKER_00 57:26

That's something else. It's like it's like fishy chicken, isn't it? Like it's it's a funny consistency and flavour combo.

SPEAKER_03 57:34

Well, because it was made into a spring roll, like it's sort of it's it's mixed up with all the other stuff, so it's sort of it's taken away from what it originally was. So it's it's an unfair comparison.

SPEAKER_01 57:43

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_03 57:43

I was like, oh yeah, I had crocodile is really good, but it was put into a spring roll with different like extra veggies and all this other stuff. So I was like, eh. Like I ate it, but like it's not a you can't really say like if it was good or not because it's been you know, it's not like it's not like taking out a piece of backstrap and cooking that up as a steak on its own and saying, here, try that, like it's it's been manipulated in a fair way.

SPEAKER_00 58:05

That's what I like. I say if you're gonna sell exotic meat, do it like that. There's a steak, there's a a burger, you know, at that most, and let people actually try the meat. How would you feel about uh feral cat? Would you give that a go? Like if Zach shot one and he cooked it up for me, I'll say no, I'll give it a try, mate. We were chatting about it. So yeah, I was actually funnily, uh, after talking about it with Zach, I went up to uh spend a little I spent a bit of time with uh an Ananou woman from the from Uluru from the community uh in the centre, and when you're out with her, her eyes are everywhere, you know, she's just looking for prints and animals as we're going along, lizards and stuff, and she thought she saw some cat pulpprints, and she was dumb, she's like looking, trying to find it, because that's what they that's how they catch them, because no matter how fast and far they go, their paw prints are you can just follow them forever, you know. It's like the relentless hunter humans are, we're just after them. Um, but they love them. We say they're good medicine. They're like it was one of their favourite things to eat are the feral cats, but you can't eat domestic ones. She said they're gross, can't eat pets, but the wild ones, they're great, they're good medicine. Huh. Yeah. So I'm gonna have to give it a go now. Yeah. Feral cats is definitely the way forward. Um mate, I think it's amazing what you're doing. Um I think that you know you're getting you're um you're changing the face of hunting by uh by going to the efforts, you know, you're doing alright, you've got all your properties, you're working hard, but as a passionate hunter, also doing the guiding stuff or looking at getting making it more of a more of a a thing. I think spectacular.

SPEAKER_03 59:52

I appreciate the thought, but you know, we'll it's it's yeah, it's a step at a time, like turning it into like a a business to try to get people out to take meat animals for some time and um just yeah, slowly trying to get the get everything connected up and set up so we're able to do that in the future.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:09

Well, where can people find you? People who are interested in going out with such a stand-up, awesome, experienced chap as yourself. Whereabouts online, can can they be can you be found?

SPEAKER_03 1:00:20

Uh you can yeah, find me on Instagram, that's sort of where most of my hunting stuff is. Like I say just at CodyGuerin. One word, that's what and yeah, you just send me a message.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:31

Cody Gear on Instagram and Facebook. Mate, thank you so much for being on. It's a pleasure.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:37

No, no worries, it was buddy pleasure being on.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:43

Thank you, everybody. We hope you enjoyed the show. Wherever you are, whatever time of day it might be, good morning, good afternoon, good evening, and good hunting.