WEBVTT

00:00:29.359 --> 00:00:30.719
<v Daina Bouquin>It is 1893.

00:00:30.719 --> 00:00:35.119
<v Daina Bouquin>A damp dark night on a lake in northern Michigan.

00:00:35.119 --> 00:00:39.920
<v Daina Bouquin>Two men sit in a rowboat drifting along the reedy edge.

00:00:39.920 --> 00:00:46.560
<v Daina Bouquin>In the stern, John Hammer holds a wooden paddle and keeps their progress quiet.

00:00:46.560 --> 00:00:53.520
<v Daina Bouquin>At the bow, a wooden frame balances two heavy box cameras side by side.

00:00:53.520 --> 00:00:59.119
<v Daina Bouquin>Each holding a single sheet of glass coated in light-sensitive emulsion.

00:00:59.119 --> 00:01:01.200
<v Daina Bouquin>One exposure.

00:01:01.200 --> 00:01:08.799
<v Daina Bouquin>Above them, a kerosene lamp with a reflector throws a single sharp spear of light across the water.

00:01:08.799 --> 00:01:17.280
<v Daina Bouquin>Behind that beam, hidden in the shadows, George Shiras holds a small pan of magnesium powder.

00:01:17.280 --> 00:01:22.640
<v Daina Bouquin>They watch the shoreline until a pair of eyes catches the light.

00:01:22.640 --> 00:01:25.599
<v Daina Bouquin>Twin emerald points in the brush.

00:01:25.599 --> 00:01:30.319
<v Daina Bouquin>A deer stands frozen, transfixed by the lamp.

00:01:30.319 --> 00:01:32.640
<v Daina Bouquin>The boat creeps closer.

00:01:32.640 --> 00:01:37.280
<v Daina Bouquin>Fifty feet, forty feet, thirty.

00:01:37.280 --> 00:01:40.719
<v Daina Bouquin>Shiras squeezes the trigger.

00:01:40.719 --> 00:01:43.359
<v Daina Bouquin>There is a crack, a white hot hiss.

00:01:43.359 --> 00:01:50.079
<v Daina Bouquin>For a fraction of a second, the deer, the hills, the lake all stand out in dark daylight.

00:01:50.079 --> 00:01:55.599
<v Daina Bouquin>Then the smoke rolls over the water and the blackness rushes back in.

00:01:55.599 --> 00:02:04.239
<v Daina Bouquin>When they develop the plate, the deer is still there, stunned at the water's edge, alive and fixed in glass.

00:02:04.239 --> 00:02:10.000
<v Daina Bouquin>But the only creatures they can capture this way are the ones that come to the shoreline.

00:02:10.000 --> 00:02:13.439
<v Daina Bouquin>Shiras wants to see the rest of the forest.

00:02:13.439 --> 00:02:16.800
<v Daina Bouquin>And he is at his core a hunter.

00:02:16.800 --> 00:02:20.800
<v Daina Bouquin>He knows the woods by habit, by patience.

00:02:20.800 --> 00:02:22.960
<v Daina Bouquin>He knows where the deer walk.

00:02:22.960 --> 00:02:33.439
<v Daina Bouquin>So he carries the heavy camera into the woods, stretches a single black thread across an animal path, and connects it to the shutter and the flash.

00:02:33.439 --> 00:02:35.439
<v Daina Bouquin>Then he leaves.

00:02:35.439 --> 00:02:39.759
<v Daina Bouquin>Sometime after dark, a body crosses the trail.

00:02:39.759 --> 00:02:45.360
<v Daina Bouquin>The thread tightens, and the darkness turns white.

00:02:45.360 --> 00:02:49.919
<v Daina Bouquin>In the morning, the deer is there on the glass.

00:02:49.919 --> 00:02:54.479
<v Daina Bouquin>Shiras has built a camera that waits.

00:02:54.479 --> 00:02:58.960
<v Daina Bouquin>His thread has given it a sense of touch.

00:02:58.960 --> 00:03:01.919
<v Daina Bouquin>But the thread sags in the rain.

00:03:01.919 --> 00:03:04.000
<v Daina Bouquin>It tangles. And it cannot catch a bat or a bird.

00:03:04.000 --> 00:03:11.520
<v Daina Bouquin>Or anything that steps over it or under it.

00:03:11.520 --> 00:03:16.159
<v Daina Bouquin>To remove the thread, the camera needed to feel more than pressure.

00:03:16.159 --> 00:03:18.960
<v Daina Bouquin>It needed to feel heat.

00:03:18.960 --> 00:03:24.879
<v Daina Bouquin>I'm Daina Bouquin, and this is Found in the Machine.

00:03:24.879 --> 00:03:33.599
<v Daina Bouquin>Every warm thing gives off invisible light.

00:03:33.599 --> 00:03:36.159
<v Daina Bouquin>Infrared radiation.

00:03:36.159 --> 00:03:41.680
<v Daina Bouquin>A deer.

00:03:41.680 --> 00:03:44.879
<v Daina Bouquin>The raccoon beside the trash cans.

00:03:44.879 --> 00:03:51.680
<v Daina Bouquin>You, right now, you are glowing, broadcasting your presence wherever you are.

00:03:51.680 --> 00:03:57.199
<v Daina Bouquin>But if you warm up a piece of tourmaline, it doesn't just glow.

00:03:57.199 --> 00:04:01.280
<v Daina Bouquin>It begins to pull at the world around it.

00:04:01.280 --> 00:04:07.680
<v Daina Bouquin>Dust, ash, and tiny pieces of straw cling to its surface.

00:04:07.680 --> 00:04:17.199
<v Daina Bouquin>Inside the stone, a change in temperature shifts its electrical balance and creates a faint charge at the surface.

00:04:17.199 --> 00:04:21.040
<v Daina Bouquin>Not heat in electricity out exactly.

00:04:21.040 --> 00:04:23.920
<v Daina Bouquin>A change in temperature in.

00:04:23.920 --> 00:04:26.720
<v Daina Bouquin>A fleeting electrical signal out.

00:04:26.720 --> 00:04:30.079
<v Daina Bouquin>That signal can be amplified.

00:04:30.079 --> 00:04:34.000
<v Daina Bouquin>It can be used to close a circuit.

00:04:34.000 --> 00:04:36.079
<v Daina Bouquin>It can wake a camera.

00:04:36.079 --> 00:04:39.040
<v Daina Bouquin>This is pyroelectricity.

00:04:39.040 --> 00:04:45.680
<v Daina Bouquin>But a single detector cannot tell what caused the temperature to change.

00:04:45.680 --> 00:04:49.519
<v Daina Bouquin>To a stone, warmer is simply warmer.

00:04:49.519 --> 00:04:53.759
<v Daina Bouquin>The sun rising over a clearing warms the air.

00:04:53.759 --> 00:04:56.399
<v Daina Bouquin>The detector warms.

00:04:56.399 --> 00:05:02.240
<v Daina Bouquin>Wire that detector to a camera and it will confidently photograph the empty field.

00:05:02.240 --> 00:05:12.480
<v Daina Bouquin>To use pyroelectricity, to make the signal useful, engineers needed the machine to also notice movement.

00:05:12.480 --> 00:05:22.000
<v Daina Bouquin>So they paired two pyroelectric elements together and balanced them against each other like two sides of a scale.

00:05:22.000 --> 00:05:32.399
<v Daina Bouquin>When a slow even shift in temperature, like sunlight warming a room, reaches both elements at once, the scale stays balanced.

00:05:32.399 --> 00:05:35.519
<v Daina Bouquin>That broad change produces silence.

00:05:35.519 --> 00:05:42.480
<v Daina Bouquin>But if a body moves through the room, it warms one element and then the other.

00:05:42.480 --> 00:05:46.160
<v Daina Bouquin>For a fraction of a second, the scale tips.

00:05:46.160 --> 00:05:51.920
<v Daina Bouquin>That disagreement becomes a trigger, telling a camera to wake up.

00:05:51.920 --> 00:05:56.079
<v Daina Bouquin>This is what happens with the floodlight above your driveway.

00:05:56.079 --> 00:05:59.680
<v Daina Bouquin>With the lights that turn on when you enter a room.

00:05:59.680 --> 00:06:02.720
<v Daina Bouquin>It's what happens inside a camera trap.

00:06:02.720 --> 00:06:07.600
<v Daina Bouquin>The sensors in those little machines do not see you.

00:06:07.600 --> 00:06:16.639
<v Daina Bouquin>They contain pyroelectric elements that just notice when the infrared patterns in front of them briefly stop agreeing with each other.

00:06:16.639 --> 00:06:23.360
<v Daina Bouquin>It is called a passive infrared sensor because it sends nothing into the world.

00:06:23.360 --> 00:06:26.560
<v Daina Bouquin>No beam, no searching pulse.

00:06:26.560 --> 00:06:32.160
<v Daina Bouquin>It simply waits for the invisible light already being emitted around it to move in a certain way.

00:06:32.160 --> 00:06:40.720
<v Daina Bouquin>But even with two pyroelectric elements, the sensor still needs help to focus all that infrared light.

00:06:40.720 --> 00:06:46.639
<v Daina Bouquin>And it turns out the cheapest solution came from the sea.

00:06:46.639 --> 00:06:52.800
<v Daina Bouquin>From the work of an early 19th-century French physicist named Augustin Fresnel.

00:06:52.800 --> 00:07:06.000
<v Daina Bouquin>Fresnel designed a new kind of glass for lighthouses, made of step-cut concentric rings that could gather the scattered, wasted light that flew towards the land instead of the water.

00:07:06.000 --> 00:07:16.879
<v Daina Bouquin>His lens bent the lighthouse's brightness into a single intense beam aimed at the horizon so the ships could see the light from further away.

00:07:16.879 --> 00:07:30.560
<v Daina Bouquin>Now if you look at the milky plastic window on a motion detecting light, or a burglar alarm, or a trail camera, you will see a pattern of tiny molded ridges.

00:07:30.560 --> 00:07:36.160
<v Daina Bouquin>That is a Fresnel lens, molded in plastic.

00:07:36.160 --> 00:07:38.480
<v Daina Bouquin>Cheap and easy to make.

00:07:38.480 --> 00:07:49.600
<v Daina Bouquin>But instead of throwing visible light out into the dark to warn ships, it reaches out and gathers up the scattered invisible light and bends it inward toward the sensor.

00:07:49.600 --> 00:08:00.160
<v Daina Bouquin>Now take that sensor with its paired elements and its inside-out lighthouse lens and strap it to a tree on the coast of British Columbia.

00:08:00.160 --> 00:08:07.199
<v Daina Bouquin>In Heiltsuk territory, an invasion was quietly taking hold under the water.

00:08:07.199 --> 00:08:10.319
<v Daina Bouquin>European green crabs were moving in.

00:08:10.319 --> 00:08:15.839
<v Daina Bouquin>They threatened the native clams, the salmon, the eelgrass.

00:08:15.839 --> 00:08:19.439
<v Daina Bouquin>So the Nation's Environmental Guardians fought back.

00:08:19.439 --> 00:08:25.439
<v Daina Bouquin>They sunk traps into the deep water, baiting them with herring and sea lion meat.

00:08:25.439 --> 00:08:29.279
<v Daina Bouquin>But the traps started coming back broken.

00:08:29.279 --> 00:08:39.519
<v Daina Bouquin>The Guardians would find the cages dragged out of the water, netting shredded, the little orange bait cups mangled or completely missing.

00:08:39.519 --> 00:08:43.039
<v Daina Bouquin>Sometimes a trap vanished entirely.

00:08:43.039 --> 00:08:50.799
<v Daina Bouquin>At first they guessed it was sea lions or maybe otters, but the damage didn't quite make sense.

00:08:50.799 --> 00:08:54.960
<v Daina Bouquin>They needed to know what was happening beneath the surface.

00:08:54.960 --> 00:08:58.480
<v Daina Bouquin>So they pointed a camera at the surf to watch.

00:08:58.480 --> 00:09:06.960
<v Daina Bouquin>Then, one day in May 2024, the sensor registered a change in temperature on the shore.

00:09:06.960 --> 00:09:09.120
<v Daina Bouquin>The camera woke up.

00:09:09.120 --> 00:09:13.279
<v Daina Bouquin>It recorded a female coastal wolf.

00:09:13.279 --> 00:09:16.720
<v Daina Bouquin>In this territory, the wolves are different.

00:09:16.720 --> 00:09:24.080
<v Daina Bouquin>They cross open water between islands with their backs submerged, only eyes and ears and snouts above the surface.

00:09:24.080 --> 00:09:28.240
<v Daina Bouquin>They bite the heads off spawning salmon and eat only the brains.

00:09:28.240 --> 00:09:30.960
<v Daina Bouquin>Crack muscles with their jaws.

00:09:30.960 --> 00:09:34.879
<v Daina Bouquin>But this wolf wasn't hunting in the tide pools.

00:09:34.879 --> 00:09:39.200
<v Daina Bouquin>The camera caught her wading into the cold salt water.

00:09:39.200 --> 00:09:44.240
<v Daina Bouquin>She swam out until she reached a floating buoy attached to a crab trap.

00:09:44.240 --> 00:09:50.480
<v Daina Bouquin>She grabbed it in her jaws and swam back, dropping it on the rocks.

00:09:50.480 --> 00:09:56.080
<v Daina Bouquin>Then she took the rope in her mouth and she pulled.

00:09:56.080 --> 00:10:07.200
<v Daina Bouquin>She stood on the shore, pulling the line over and over, understanding that this rope connected to something that she could not see, heavy and hidden in the depth.

00:10:07.200 --> 00:10:13.919
<v Daina Bouquin>She dragged the awkward contraption all the way onto the beach and tore through the mesh.

00:10:13.919 --> 00:10:20.720
<v Daina Bouquin>She extracted that little orange bait cup, licked the sea lion meat clean, and trotted away.

00:10:20.720 --> 00:10:25.039
<v Daina Bouquin>In less than three minutes, the camera solved the mystery.

00:10:25.039 --> 00:10:29.200
<v Daina Bouquin>It recorded a wolf executing a deliberate multi-step heist.

00:10:29.200 --> 00:10:37.039
<v Daina Bouquin>It captured the animal understanding a cause and effect relationship that scientists didn't know wild wolves were capable of grasping.

00:10:37.039 --> 00:10:45.360
<v Daina Bouquin>But the camera that caught the wolves hauling in crab traps also caught many, many, many things that were not wolves.

00:10:45.360 --> 00:10:52.399
<v Daina Bouquin>A branch warmed by the sun swinging across the field of view, the camera wakes.

00:10:52.399 --> 00:10:57.440
<v Daina Bouquin>A patch of light lands suddenly on wet leaves and the camera wakes.

00:10:57.440 --> 00:11:03.600
<v Daina Bouquin>For every photograph of a wolf on a beach, there may be dozens with nothing in them at all.

00:11:03.600 --> 00:11:06.240
<v Daina Bouquin>Nothing, nothing, nothing.

00:11:06.240 --> 00:11:07.440
<v Daina Bouquin>Wolf.

00:11:07.440 --> 00:11:08.559
<v Daina Bouquin>Nothing.

00:11:08.559 --> 00:11:09.440
<v Daina Bouquin>Again.

00:11:09.440 --> 00:11:13.440
<v Daina Bouquin>But a false alarm only wastes time.

00:11:13.440 --> 00:11:17.519
<v Daina Bouquin>A missed animal can rewrite the record.

00:11:17.519 --> 00:11:27.440
<v Daina Bouquin>It can say "Nothing was here." For 30 years, engineers tried to make the signal itself smarter.

00:11:27.440 --> 00:11:31.519
<v Daina Bouquin>They filtered waveforms and analyzed pulse shapes.

00:11:31.519 --> 00:11:40.320
<v Daina Bouquin>But the size and signal depends on how warm the body is, how fast it moves, how far away it stands.

00:11:40.320 --> 00:11:43.679
<v Daina Bouquin>And none of that tells you what it is.

00:11:43.679 --> 00:11:46.960
<v Daina Bouquin>So people sit at screens.

00:11:46.960 --> 00:11:54.639
<v Daina Bouquin>Students and tens of thousands of volunteers working on citizen science projects from home.

00:11:54.639 --> 00:11:58.960
<v Daina Bouquin>They move through images one at a time.

00:11:58.960 --> 00:12:00.639
<v Daina Bouquin>Nothing.

00:12:00.639 --> 00:12:01.519
<v Daina Bouquin>Nothing. Nothing.

00:12:02.399 --> 00:12:04.240
<v Daina Bouquin>Maybe a bird.

00:12:04.240 --> 00:12:05.440
<v Daina Bouquin>Nothing. Nothing.

00:12:06.240 --> 00:12:07.360
<v Daina Bouquin>Wolf.

00:12:07.360 --> 00:12:13.360
<v Daina Bouquin>Each label turns the photograph into an example.

00:12:13.360 --> 00:12:17.600
<v Daina Bouquin>Collect enough examples and they can train a new machine.

00:12:17.600 --> 00:12:21.440
<v Daina Bouquin>The first machine answered, did something change?

00:12:21.440 --> 00:12:26.399
<v Daina Bouquin>But the second one tries to answer, what was it?

00:12:26.399 --> 00:12:30.159
<v Daina Bouquin>This is supervised machine learning.

00:12:30.159 --> 00:12:35.919
<v Daina Bouquin>But the machine learning classifier does not know what a wolf is.

00:12:35.919 --> 00:12:41.360
<v Daina Bouquin>It learns statistical relationships from images that people have labeled wolf.

00:12:41.360 --> 00:12:46.159
<v Daina Bouquin>Textures, contours, arrangements of pixels.

00:12:46.159 --> 00:12:51.600
<v Daina Bouquin>When a new photograph arrives, it estimates which of its categories fits best.

00:12:51.600 --> 00:12:52.639
<v Daina Bouquin>Nothing. Nothing.

00:12:53.519 --> 00:13:03.679
<v Daina Bouquin>Something to label "wolf." The sensor detects, the camera records, the classifier proposes a name.

00:13:03.679 --> 00:13:06.960
<v Daina Bouquin>Then people decide what that name means.

00:13:06.960 --> 00:13:15.039
<v Daina Bouquin>For most of a century, there were almost no wolves left in the American West.

00:13:15.039 --> 00:13:18.879
<v Daina Bouquin>We had shot and poisoned them nearly to nothing.

00:13:18.879 --> 00:13:23.759
<v Daina Bouquin>As the few survivors began to wander back, the reports came in.

00:13:23.759 --> 00:13:27.279
<v Daina Bouquin>A coyote seen from a moving car.

00:13:27.279 --> 00:13:29.679
<v Daina Bouquin>A shape on a ridge.

00:13:29.679 --> 00:13:32.240
<v Daina Bouquin>A big dog at dusk.

00:13:32.240 --> 00:13:37.840
<v Daina Bouquin>Wildlife offices filled with sightings of wolves that were not wolves.

00:13:37.840 --> 00:13:38.879
<v Daina Bouquin>Nothing. Nothing.

00:13:39.600 --> 00:13:40.480
<v Daina Bouquin>Nothing.

00:13:40.480 --> 00:13:47.759
<v Daina Bouquin>But in 2023, Colorado began reintroducing gray wolves to the state's western slope.

00:13:47.759 --> 00:13:58.000
<v Daina Bouquin>Animals were captured in Oregon and British Columbia, fitted with GPS collars that logged their position every four hours, and released into the mountains.

00:13:58.000 --> 00:14:01.039
<v Daina Bouquin>Trail cameras watched den sites.

00:14:01.039 --> 00:14:04.399
<v Daina Bouquin>Aerial surveys tracked pack movements.

00:14:04.399 --> 00:14:08.240
<v Daina Bouquin>Biologists collected scat for genetic analysis.

00:14:08.240 --> 00:14:13.840
<v Daina Bouquin>It became one of the most closely monitored wolf populations in history.

00:14:13.840 --> 00:14:22.799
<v Daina Bouquin>In June 2025, a trail camera outside a den in Root County captured the first images of pups born to the King Mountain Pack.

00:14:22.799 --> 00:14:26.720
<v Daina Bouquin>No person was there to see them, but the camera was.

00:14:26.720 --> 00:14:32.799
<v Daina Bouquin>It recorded the tumbling, clumsy little bodies before anyone else even knew they had arrived.

00:14:32.799 --> 00:14:36.639
<v Daina Bouquin>Then came January 2026.

00:14:36.639 --> 00:14:43.600
<v Daina Bouquin>A licensed hunter in Northwest Colorado saw an animal.

00:14:43.600 --> 00:14:47.360
<v Daina Bouquin>And to him it looked like a coyote.

00:14:47.360 --> 00:14:52.000
<v Daina Bouquin>Coyotes are legal to hunt year-round in Colorado.

00:14:52.000 --> 00:14:55.200
<v Daina Bouquin>So he aimed.

00:14:55.200 --> 00:14:57.600
<v Daina Bouquin>He fired.

00:14:57.600 --> 00:15:05.120
<v Daina Bouquin>She was a wolf.

00:15:05.120 --> 00:15:12.000
<v Daina Bouquin>She had been translocated from British Columbia a year earlier to support repopulation efforts.

00:15:12.000 --> 00:15:16.879
<v Daina Bouquin>When the hunter saw her GPS collar, he reported the mistake immediately.

00:15:16.879 --> 00:15:22.080
<v Daina Bouquin>That collar had been logging her position every four hours.

00:15:22.080 --> 00:15:25.120
<v Daina Bouquin>The trail cameras were recording.

00:15:25.120 --> 00:15:28.320
<v Daina Bouquin>The data was being collected.

00:15:28.320 --> 00:15:32.240
<v Daina Bouquin>None of the technology failed.

00:15:32.240 --> 00:15:42.080
<v Daina Bouquin>We have spent more than a century building machines that wait in our place because our own attention falters.

00:15:42.080 --> 00:15:44.960
<v Daina Bouquin>We need them to sit in the snow.

00:15:44.960 --> 00:15:47.120
<v Daina Bouquin>To wait in the dark.

00:15:47.120 --> 00:15:50.799
<v Daina Bouquin>To feel the heat we cannot feel.

00:15:50.799 --> 00:15:55.360
<v Daina Bouquin>We need them to do the mundane, tireless watching.

00:15:55.360 --> 00:16:02.879
<v Daina Bouquin>But when George Shiras drifted across that lake in a rowboat in 1893, he didn't just want data.

00:16:02.879 --> 00:16:07.039
<v Daina Bouquin>He used the camera to show other people what he had seen.

00:16:07.039 --> 00:16:16.879
<v Daina Bouquin>To make them understand that the deer at the water's edge was not just a shape, not just a target, but something worth paying attention to.

00:16:16.879 --> 00:16:20.720
<v Daina Bouquin>His images were meant to create a sense of presence.

00:16:20.720 --> 00:16:23.440
<v Daina Bouquin>To make people really look.

00:16:23.440 --> 00:16:26.720
<v Daina Bouquin>Shiras gave the machine a thread.

00:16:26.720 --> 00:16:30.000
<v Daina Bouquin>Engineers gave it a way to feel heat.

00:16:30.000 --> 00:16:36.559
<v Daina Bouquin>Lenses allowed it to focus, and people trained algorithms to name what it sees.

00:16:36.559 --> 00:16:40.480
<v Daina Bouquin>The machine can document what moves through the dark.

00:16:40.480 --> 00:16:43.519
<v Daina Bouquin>It can show us what we missed.

00:16:43.519 --> 00:16:46.240
<v Daina Bouquin>But the machine does not think.

00:16:46.240 --> 00:16:49.039
<v Daina Bouquin>It does not believe.

00:16:49.039 --> 00:16:51.039
<v Daina Bouquin>It does not doubt.

00:16:51.039 --> 00:16:57.039
<v Daina Bouquin>It feels the heat, throws the switch, and leaves the rest to us.

00:16:57.039 --> 00:17:02.879
<v Daina Bouquin>I'm Daina Bouquin and this is Found in the Machine.

00:17:02.879 --> 00:17:09.119
<v Daina Bouquin>Before I go, I want to tell you about something new.

00:17:09.119 --> 00:17:19.599
<v Daina Bouquin>I've just launched a Patreon for the show, and members will get access to a bonus mini episode series called Found in the Margins.

00:17:19.599 --> 00:17:24.480
<v Daina Bouquin>I'll be putting it out every other week, alternating with the main feed.

00:17:24.480 --> 00:17:36.559
<v Daina Bouquin>These are short stories about the strange and wonderful stuff I stumble across while researching the main show, and just I'm not quite sure how to ever turn it into a full episode.

00:17:36.559 --> 00:17:42.000
<v Daina Bouquin>And I'll be honest with you, I was laid off from my day job this week.

00:17:42.000 --> 00:17:48.880
<v Daina Bouquin>So if you've ever thought about supporting the show, now it would mean a lot.

00:17:48.880 --> 00:17:56.559
<v Daina Bouquin>You can find the Patreon link along with other ways to support Found in the Machine at foundinthemachine.com/support.

00:17:56.559 --> 00:18:02.400
<v Daina Bouquin>And thank you as always for listening.
